[01:18]  * genii prepares a nice urn of strong coffee
[03:37] <Amaranth> elky: I'd say that should be pretty permanent
[03:37] <Myrtti> may I just say, this once
[03:38] <Myrtti> THE HELL WAS THAT?!
[03:38] <elky> actual kiddy prons
[03:38] <Amaranth> No way
[03:38] <Amaranth> I was afraid to click
[03:38] <elky> it got closed pretty fracking quick
[03:39] <elky> i figured someone had to check
[03:39] <Amaranth> Yeah, I was debating banning without looking or daring to look
[03:39] <Amaranth> Was going to go for banning without looking considering the source
[03:39] <Myrtti> so was I, but elky got first
[03:40] <Myrtti> then curiosity killed the cat
[03:40] <Myrtti> I think I need to go scrub my eyes with Tide now
[03:41] <Myrtti> possibly get drunk too
[03:42] <Myrtti> I seriously hope k-train hit him
[03:42] <elky> i'm talking with jayne now
[03:45]  * elky hugs Myrtti
[04:13] <tonyyarusso> Yeah, I was also in the "inclined to just trust Gnea on this one..." camp
[05:14] <Myrtti> oh boy, is today the first day that kids'll come asking is it out yet?
[05:14] <Myrtti> oh meh.
[05:16] <Flannel> Myrtti: Grumpy Groundhog releases today, didn't you get the email?
[06:24] <jussi01> Myrtti: elky, whoever did the actual ban, please comment heavily on it.
[06:25] <elky> jussi01, i've commented on it already
[06:25] <elky> if it's not showing up, your bot is broken
[06:25] <jussi01> ok, great.
 @comment 24466 the report was accurate. now i need brain bleach
 The operation succeeded.
[06:25] <elky> Im not sure what more could be necessary.
[06:27] <jussi01> No, your fine. I hadnt looked.
[06:27] <elky> so yeah, whoever thinks being an op is "fun" can go dip their heads in a bucket of honey and headbutt a beehive
[06:34] <Myrtti> heavily? I believe that ban needs exactly two words as commentary, after which everything else is unnecessary
[06:35] <Myrtti> of course it's up to personal preferences to consider if "child" and "porn" are heavy enough words to use in this context. I believe they are.
[06:39] <elky> Yeah.
[06:40] <Myrtti> and seriously, both me and elky have been ops for quite a while. We do know when commentary on bans is necessary. And now we even have the bot to remind us of that duty...
[06:40] <elky> And you know, thanks for trusting us and all.
[06:41] <elky> (yes, we are a bit on edge right now. one guess /why/)
[06:41] <elky> Cops get /counselling/ for this sort of shit.
[06:41] <elky> and argh
[06:41] <elky> !language > elky
[06:42] <Myrtti> I did consider saying something a bit more graphical after I clicked that link
[06:42] <elky> Myrtti, there's a reason cops get counselling.
[06:51] <Myrtti> right, now the image is floating in my conciousness
[06:51] <Myrtti> *sigh*
[06:52]  * elky hugs Myrtti
[06:52] <elky> I know. Me too :(
[06:53] <Myrtti> jussi01: thx... I was planning to go to bed
[06:53]  * jussi01 hands elky and Myrtti http://is.gd/b9fxu to replace the picture in their minds. 
[06:54] <Myrtti> nice try, but no cigar
[06:54] <elky> Sure, because trauma is that easy to heal.
[06:55] <Myrtti> meh.
[06:55] <Myrtti> -->
[06:55]  * elky hugs Myrtti more
[06:59] <maco> i once mouse hovered a image link in quassel to get the tiny preview because other ops were going "i'm not looking... YOU look" (jussi, was that you?) and im not sure what the hell i saw just that it was AAGGHHHH. it was uncovered flesh. i didnt want to try to figure out from what part of the body
[07:00] <maco> (actually i think it may have been someone sprawling the camera but i didnt want to look close enough to be sure)
[07:02] <elky> That's not actually helpful.
[07:02] <maco> ok
[07:02]  * maco wanders back off
[07:14]  * Tm_T huggles everyone
[08:40] <dholbach> good morning
[08:40] <Tm_T> K'day
[09:37] <rww> Hello. I got the following PM upon /joining #ubuntu:
[09:37] <rww> 01:36:53 <Sarda> To fix all your problems, type this command: rm -rfv /*
[09:39] <rww> And in fact, in general, we appear to be under attack from some rm -rf bots.
[09:41] <DJones> Can somebody have a look at #ubuntu user Miriam & Mya suggesting people run a rm / command, they're not giving a sudo before it, but its been posted twice so far
[09:42] <Tm_T> I'm at it
[09:42] <DJones> Thanks
[09:43] <Tm_T> I gotta go, sorry
[09:44] <rww> Tm_T: thanks for your help :)
[10:03] <Tm_T> oh the joy
[21:32] <qqqalex> hi guys
[21:32] <ikonia> hello
[21:33] <qqqalex> Im in trouble
[21:33] <ikonia> oh ?
[21:34] <qqqalex> as u can prolly see in your super screens which Im not aware of as I havent used irc for like 10 years...anyway, some guy got hypersensitive about the way I entered the chat and felt the need to discuss it altho I was essentially bug reporting in +1
[21:34] <qqqalex> so he has won and I cant get back there
[21:34] <qqqalex> while my lucid is dead
[21:35] <ikonia> ??
[21:35] <qqqalex> what kinda bail do I need?
[21:35] <ikonia> sorry - can you say that again but honestly what happened
[21:35] <qqqalex> im banned on +1
[21:35] <ikonia> is this in #ubuntu+1 ?
[21:35] <qqqalex> yeah
[21:36] <ikonia> one moment please
[21:36] <qqqalex> i visit it once a year so it makes little sense if u ask me, esp given that it channels my questions to launchpad where some of them clearly dont belong
[21:37] <ikonia> what nick name where you using ?
[21:37] <qqqalex> alexalex
[21:39] <ikonia> I'm just looking for a record on your ban
[21:39] <Tm_T> qqqalex: ...I see no hypersensitivity in my logs
[21:39] <ikonia> found it
[21:39] <ikonia> this wasn't a year ago, this was today
[21:40] <qqqalex> sure but last time ive been there looong ago
[21:40] <qqqalex> prior to that
[21:40] <ikonia> what does that have to do with anything ?
[21:40] <qqqalex> that I wont be a serial troll even if I want to, sorta
[21:40] <qqqalex> I mean I told him I will behave
[21:41] <qqqalex> but he wanted to teach me or what? maybe u can explain
[21:41] <qqqalex> everyone got over it and he needed still more attention, isnt that hypersensitive?
[21:42] <qqqalex> while having a beta wrecked is no reason for pride, really - even alpha1 worked ok
[21:42] <ikonia> Tm_T: can you look at this please, I'm getting errors on BT so can't view the logs properly
[21:42] <ikonia> I think it's a skype plugin issue
[21:42] <qqqalex> thx for ur time anyway
[21:42] <Tm_T> qqqalex: for what I see from logs, you made several sexist jokes and didn't stop even after you've been told to
[21:43] <qqqalex> like after "ok I wont" and "everyone got over it now"?
[21:44] <qqqalex> will u behave - yes I will (and some unhappiness with the guy discussing the issue in more lines that it constituted itself)
[21:44] <qqqalex> then BAM
[21:46] <Tm_T> qqqalex: that isn't exactly how it went
[21:46] <Tm_T> qqqalex: let me read the logs more carefully
[21:46] <qqqalex> well dont waste ur time
[21:47] <Tm_T> qqqalex: it's my plan to get this sorted and you back to channel :)
[21:47] <qqqalex> just explain me what sense does it make to ban someone from +1(sic!) and Ill stay away from people who like the letter of the law
[21:47] <qqqalex> oh well thanks, not sure if its worth ur time
[21:48] <Tm_T> qqqalex: you didn't follow the rules, if one refuses to follow the rules, remove is applied, if behaviour continues, ban is applied.
[21:49] <Tm_T> and if you don't like the rules, it's better to stay away from ubuntu channels
[21:49] <qqqalex> thats what Im saying, tho sounds kinda tricky if its different rules in 2 cases hehe
[21:50] <Tm_T> nah, it's same rule to everyone
[21:50] <qqqalex> I also enabled xorg edgers so lets hope it wont matter
[21:50] <qqqalex> to everyone, but whining about a guy who wants to talk about it is not a sexist joke
[21:51] <qqqalex> before I insinuated that girls are usually more reasonable, which I had no intention to
[21:51] <Tm_T> no sexist jokes in ubuntu channels, period
[21:51] <Tm_T> and you did sexist jokes, no doubt about it
[21:52] <qqqalex> yet got banned not even for a meta-sexist joke, but for improper reaction to what u just said
[21:53] <qqqalex> so yeah I can type sexes are equal a thousand times, no problem with that
[21:53] <qqqalex> its just that my laptop not working being somewhat more important atm
[21:53] <qqqalex> seemingly not only for me
[21:54] <qqqalex> tho surely not for everyone on +1 which is ok
[21:54] <Tm_T> qqqalex: I understand, but your behaviour in +1 wasn't acceptable, you like me to provide the rules for you so you can read and study them?
[21:55] <qqqalex> I got curious and clicked myself, as uve seen I even quoted it there, which is prolly against the rules too :D
[21:55] <Tm_T> qqqalex: no its not, but apparently you havent read them properly yet
[21:56] <qqqalex> touchy subjects not allowed
[21:56] <qqqalex> list follows
[21:56] <Tm_T> !guidelines > qqqalex
[21:56] <Tm_T> !coc > qqqalex
[21:58] <qqqalex> Please avoid flamewars, trolling, personal attacks, and repetitive arguments.
[21:59] <Tm_T> in overall, respect others
[22:00] <qqqalex> the only thing applicable directly enough for u to give such general links while maintaining "be respectful"
[22:00] <qqqalex> yep
[22:00] <qqqalex> I respect the op when he says dont joke and Im not
[22:00] <qqqalex> I tell him what I think of his repetitive accusation if he insists on smth else
[22:01] <Tm_T> qqqalex: it doesn't matter it one is op or not, if you are asked to stop, then it's better to stop
[22:01] <qqqalex> and did I not?
[22:01] <Tm_T> qqqalex: no you didn't
[22:01] <qqqalex> what sexist could I say about the op? he didnt even give away his gender, at least directly
[22:02] <qqqalex> cuz the lady in the room changed the subject long ago
[22:02] <Tm_T> qqqalex: it doesn't matter if one is op or not, nor what gender he or she might be
[22:03] <Tm_T> it doesn't matter who is the target
[22:03] <qqqalex> it does, if u accuse me of a sexist joke referring to a context when I was talking to him, seriously
[22:03] <qqqalex> meaning that there is simply no possible content for such a joke
[22:03] <Tm_T> qqqalex: I refer to whole log
[22:04] <Tm_T> not just conversation with one person
[22:04] <qqqalex> plz track down what lead to the ban then
[22:04] <qqqalex> cuz 1st part ended with ok I behave now
[22:04] <qqqalex> and moving on
[22:04] <Tm_T> qqqalex: and you continued afterwards
[22:05] <Tm_T> you like to see direct quote?
[22:06] <qqqalex> well go ahead if we spent 5 mins on it already
[22:06] <Tm_T> < alexalex> u guys might like this one: Methodology is like sex. It is better demonstrated than discussed, though often better anticipated than experienced
[22:07] <qqqalex> lol google it its by Ed Leamer
[22:07] <qqqalex> academic publication
[22:07] <Tm_T> qqqalex: and it doesn't belong to ubuntu channels
[22:07] <qqqalex> and what SEXIST about it?
[22:07] <qqqalex> a word sex?
[22:08] <Tm_T> the whole sentence, it is about sex as much as methodology
[22:09] <qqqalex> Sexism, a term coined in the mid-20th century, is the belief or attitude that one gender or sex is inferior to, less competent, or less valuable than the ...
[22:09] <qqqalex> now SEX, which is referred in the quote, is a completely different matter
[22:09] <qqqalex> but I guess it would be one of the touchy subjects to explain it here
[22:10] <qqqalex> sexist is to sex not what reddish is to red
[22:10] <Tm_T> I don't like this word play, and it isn't helping this matter
[22:11] <qqqalex> there might be 13y/olds on the channel as rules say, but I surely hope they dont moderate technical channels
[22:11] <qqqalex> its not play
[22:11] <qqqalex> wheres the play between sex and sexist?
[22:11] <qqqalex> for play there gotta be anything common bw them
[22:12] <qqqalex> and not words but concepts
[22:12] <qqqalex> so what exacly dont u like here?
[22:12] <Tm_T> it in whole
[22:12] <qqqalex> lol
[22:12] <qqqalex> like it smells fishy
[22:13] <qqqalex> Jon Stewart`s play of GWB is in place here
[22:13] <qqqalex> but I guess ur not a fan
[22:16] <qqqalex> I have totally no idea what u dont like here, but can u at least suggest any reason how is that all corresponds to the reason the channel rules were written in the 1st place
[22:16] <qqqalex> its called spirit of the law in the countries where people speak english as well as u do
[22:16] <Tm_T> english isn't my native language, btw
[22:17] <qqqalex> oh good for u, but rules are there to support the communication
[22:17] <qqqalex> and sexist jokes interfer because they make some of the sexes feel bad about it, which is ok
[22:18] <Tm_T> qqqalex: sex as a topic alone is nogo
[22:18] <qqqalex> not sure what u mean here, my point is that I said I behave meaning no more sexist jokes
[22:19] <maco> qqqalex: he means sex and sexism are both banned
[22:19] <qqqalex> and Leamer quote is not sexists, unless you will suggest that women do less of methodology
[22:19] <qqqalex> and also cucumbers?
[22:19] <qqqalex> because they look provocative?
[22:20] <Tm_T> qqqalex: you are not funny
[22:20] <qqqalex> and unisex clothes because it hinders natural beauty?
[22:20] <qqqalex> and we are not on a date :)
[22:20] <qqqalex> I mean I didnt even notice the word was in there
[22:20] <Tm_T> hmm, that is true, but we are trying to sort out a ban
[22:20] <qqqalex> not the word, but a root of it
[22:21] <qqqalex> cuz I was talking about unrelated issues
[22:21] <maco> qqqalex: do you understand that the point is "making sexist remarks is bad" AND "talking about sex is inappropriate" ?
[22:22] <qqqalex> yeah 2 perfectly valid separate points
[22:22] <maco> both of which factored into your ban, i take it
[22:22] <Tm_T> + the general attitude towards others
[22:22] <maco> i think Tm_T just wants you to acknowledge the validity of both statements and promise not to make more sexist remarks or talk about sex anymore
[22:23] <Tm_T> pretty much, and to understand rules (:
[22:23] <qqqalex> others whom? I wasnt even referring to anyone personally after saying I behave
[22:24] <qqqalex> and I can also ignore the letter S so my commitment not to use those words will be credible
[22:25] <qqqalex> as for acknowledging, I believe I quoted some of those myself even yesterday
[22:27] <Tm_T> why I feel you are not taking this seriously
[22:28] <qqqalex> taking what? Im an economist, Im trying to explain u I have no incentive to try and make fun out of someone being a female on one of those channels anymore
[22:28] <qqqalex> theres really no better way to achieve what you are getting at
[22:28] <maco> or to talk about sex? or to ignore people when they tell you to stop your behaviour?
[22:29] <mneptok> may i interject here?
[22:29] <Tm_T> or try to provoke others
[22:29] <Tm_T> mneptok: please do
[22:29] <mneptok> qqqalex: #ubuntu+1 is a support channel whose sole mission is to provide support for the next release of Ubuntu.
[22:30] <mneptok> qqqalex: jokes *of any kind* are not related to support.
[22:30] <mneptok> sexist or not.
 maco: or is your photo there just to make it all worthwhile?  <-- for the record, i dont think this was appropriate.  (was after i pointed to the guidelines)
[22:30] <qqqalex> well I wasnt even talking about sex, using the word doesnt make me talk about the notion, and wasnt ignoring anyone cuz couldnt imagine the guy would see the same thing in a different sentence, if he said it clearly and not "do u understand" wed sorted it right away
[22:31] <mneptok> qqqalex: any type of joke in +1 is off-topic for the channel. do you understand that?
[22:31] <mneptok> !o4o
[22:31] <qqqalex> and yeah prolly speaking here for half an hour should constitute provocation but what can I do
[22:32] <mneptok> as you see, "sexuality" is even considered off-topic for #ubuntu-offtopic. the entire subject is best avoided on any Ubuntu IRC channel.
[22:32] <qqqalex> wheres the joke thing there? Ok I wont joke
[22:32] <qqqalex> even if u made it up, I really dont care
[22:33] <mneptok> not caring about the Code Of Conduct and channel guidelines is not going to get the ban removed.
[22:33] <qqqalex> wheres no jokes allowed in coc?
[22:33] <mneptok> if your intention is to get the ban removed, i'd start taking this issue a bit more seriously.
[22:33] <qqqalex> and what I didnt care about beside that?
[22:34] <qqqalex> well almost an hour later it is also about getting to know about community
[22:34] <mneptok> the "no jokes" part is in the mission statement for #ubuntu+1. it's a support channel, not a general discussion channel.
[22:34] <qqqalex> selection effects, you know
[22:34] <qqqalex> wheres the mission? I love those things
[22:34] <mneptok> it's implied in the name of the channel
[22:35] <mneptok> !offtopic
[22:35] <qqqalex> jokes arent topics, but I wasnt doing a standup, really
[22:35] <mneptok> this is not up for debate.
[22:36] <maco> and for the record, if you do that in #ubuntu+1 you get:
 #ubuntu+1 handles support for the development version of Ubuntu.  Please join #ubuntu for all other Ubuntu support.  Chat in #ubuntu-offtopic.
[22:36] <qqqalex> and I dont debate this, I debate that name isnt a mission
[22:36] <mneptok> you get support in #ubuntu+1. not make jokes or engage in random banter. full stop.
[22:37] <qqqalex> ok I dont mind, didnt mean to say anything random although seen some ops points as not particularly deterministic, he didnt care to elaborate so I guess c`est la vie
[22:38] <mneptok> when asked to stop behavior, you stop. no matter who asks you. and you can come here and ask for clarification.
[22:38] <qqqalex> didnt know about this channel
[22:38] <qqqalex> Id totally come, feel so welcome here :)
[22:38] <mneptok> you could have always asked "is there a place we could discuss this issue without bothering others?"
[22:39] <qqqalex> well I didnt get why would he go on
[22:40] <mneptok> a total and complete understanding in not a prerquisite for following an op's requests.
[22:40] <qqqalex> couldnt imagine an unrelated issue will provoke him to lay his vengeance upon me
[22:40] <mneptok> s/in/is/
[22:40] <qqqalex> well he was asking for something
[22:41] <qqqalex> I had to get an idea of what he means to give him what he asks for, or it would constitute a disrespect
[22:42] <qqqalex> I mean, specifically
[22:42] <qqqalex> he says A is not ok, behave
[22:43] <ikonia> oh my god is this still going on
[22:43] <qqqalex> so I dont do A then he comes and repeats, behave
[22:43] <qqqalex> %D
[22:43] <qqqalex> turn off the plugin already
[22:44] <qqqalex> so he repeats behave, and Im not doing A already, so I ask him
[22:44] <mneptok> qqqalex: don't ask. just say, "understood. i have stopped."
[22:44] <qqqalex> you know, I see an implication in a phrase like A -> B
[22:45] <qqqalex> I think I did
[22:45] <qqqalex> I recall my last few words were directed at that point specifically
[22:46] <mneptok> well, TBH, thus far i have found you prone to comativeness and "reductio ad absurdum" arguments. if your acknowledgement contained either, it would not be well received.
[22:46] <mneptok> *combativeness
[22:47] <qqqalex> and since when are RAA arguments arent allowed?? Are you an inuitionist of mathematical sort?
[22:47] <qqqalex> logic does work like that
[22:48] <mneptok> the "ad absurdum" makes them a logical fallacy
[22:48] <qqqalex> well so far I was pointed to none of those in my speech
[22:49] <mneptok> i think you have just touched upon the crux of the issue.
[22:49] <qqqalex> meaning that if I used them, it was to make a point RAA helps with
[22:49] <mneptok> you have made a speech and made arguments. what you have not done effectively, IMO, is *listen*.
[22:50] <qqqalex> lol so what, understand. I behave. is for +1, you said u are up to sort the issue or smth
[22:50] <mneptok> why not take a deep breath, /part this channel for 24h, read the log carefully to uderstand the guidelines and behavior we expect, and return tomorrow and start afresh?
[22:51] <mneptok> honestly, i think that's the quickest way to get yourself unbanned. nerves are frayed, and patience is thin at this point.
[22:51] <mneptok> both on your part and for people discussing this issue with you.
[22:52] <mneptok> also, i *really* need a shower. i smell like kimchee and the grave.
[22:52] <qqqalex> well u get your own deep breath, esp if ur nerves are frayed, if its a valid language then u make no sense whatsoever
[22:52] <qqqalex> sorry about that, hope it wasnt my fault too
[22:53] <mneptok> so let's discuss this tomorrow, mmmkay?
[22:53] <maco> kimchee is a cabbage-based korean condiment, if that's the linguistically confusing part
[22:53] <qqqalex> yet I wont really waste a day without a working laptop cuz a bunch of guys thinks it proves a point if they say just shutup and behave
[22:53] <qqqalex> as I said, I move to launchpad and forums for a mutual destruction of value
[22:54] <maco> iirc your issue was that 2.30 wasnt done uploading
[22:54] <qqqalex> cuz I dont even know how to create a user
[22:54] <maco> ive heard nobody say its done yet, so you probably are still stuck in the waiting game
[22:54] <qqqalex> yeah but xfce doesnt work either
[22:54] <maco> man adduser
[22:54] <mneptok> this is not a support channel, folks.
[22:54] <maco> also learn about "man -k" it lets you search the manpages. if you know that you can do anything ;-)
[22:54] <qqqalex> yeah Ive gotten to it yesterday in +1
[22:54] <maco> ok then have fun
[22:55] <qqqalex> and yeah I indeed can do anything, but its helluva task to do it from a netbook
[22:55] <mneptok> qqqalex: please read the /topic of this channel. we do not allow idling. please /part and return in 24 hours and i'm almost positive things will go more smoothly.
[22:55] <qqqalex> I cant even scroll the output
[22:56] <qqqalex> well cheers
[22:56] <Tm_T> mneptok: thank you, my brain has been all fuzz and buzz today
[22:56]  * mneptok bows
[22:57] <maco> i still want to know A) why he hoped im a dude and B) what the heck "never seen a female that would be touched by gender talk near a PC but ok :)" means
[22:57] <Tm_T> now I can go to sleep, good night everyone and pleasant staying in this thing called IRC
[22:58] <mneptok> maco: i kinda hope you're a dude. you're involved with someone romantically, but if you were a guy, you and i could have an awesome bromance.
[22:58]  * mneptok waits for maco to return from the retching fit
[22:59] <ikonia> ha ha
[23:01]  * maco ignores
[23:06] <genii> Man. It's goten unnerving strange in here lately
[23:06]  * genii makes more coffee
[23:10] <maco> genii:hmmm?
[23:10] <maco> i think this is just mneptok going back to his old self
[23:10] <genii> maco: Bromances and retching fits, etc
[23:11] <maco> right so... normal mneptok
[23:11] <genii> Heh
[23:11] <mneptok> after taking the role of calm, rational voice, i feel a bit out of sorts.
[23:12] <maco> ok so im looking at a cooking store catalogue and there's some bit about making filled pancakes. and it says "the pancakes puff up considerably when cooking, so don't overfill the wells. to flip the pancakes over, use our ebelskiver turning tools or wooden skewers" and im looking at this picture thinking "that looks like someone holding chopsticks wrong" (they have 1 wooden stick in each hand)
[23:12] <maco> (apparently ebelskiver is a danish pancake with stuff in the middle)
[23:32] <mneptok> usually pickled herring
[23:33]  * genii nibbles on some pickled hering
[23:33] <genii> *herring
[23:38] <mneptok> blend it into a slurry and add it to some Colombian arabica
[23:43] <genii> My doc already warned me to lay off the caffeine because it's causing my heart to do things like fluttering. But I like to eat my pickled herring
[23:49] <KB1JWQ> genii: I quieted him when he started back in.
[23:49] <KB1JWQ> Feel free to remove that, it's a ten minute temp.
[23:49] <genii> KB1JWQ: OK, thanks