[00:00] ok, midnight [00:00] po4a, you have failed me [00:00] Bad, po4a! Bad! [00:02] I wonder if we should use po4a or poxml for docbook. [00:02] Meh, sorry for spamming you guys about our unrelated project. [00:04] poxml may be better, I dunno. [00:04] po4a tries, but it's kinda iffy sometimes. [00:30] hey guys, just checking in before I head away for the weekend [00:39] obviously everything is under control :P [00:39] Seems like it. [00:39] had anyone use quickshot yet? [00:39] I've got a fix for the control-reordering thing in bzr now. [00:39] Yeah. [00:39] http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/ [00:40] how many shots have been uploaded? [00:40] A fiar bit of progress already. [00:40] fair* [00:40] wow, nice [00:40] more than I expectedf [00:40] (ar and ja were me) [00:41] And soon you'll have to redo them all. :D [00:41] Nope. [00:41] lol [00:41] I just finsihed coding a screenshot-patcher. :) [00:41] a screenshot patcher? how does this work? [00:41] It'll draw the proper controlbox over the old one. [00:41] wicked! [00:42] About an hour ago I actually emailed Ivanka and told her to hurry up and get the new order in lucid [00:42] It was ubuntujenkins' idea. [00:42] but it seems there is no need :P [00:42] you guys rock [00:42] It's been tested and as long as the proportions don't change (I can't imagine they would), we're covered for LTR and RTL languages. [00:42] fantastic [00:42] Cool. [00:43] All config data's ready, too. [00:43] It's just one extra step, pre-commit. [00:44] I've been updating the bug with details. [01:02] okay [01:02] http://humphreybc.wordpress.com/2010/04/02/please-help-us-translate-and-take-screenshots/ [01:02] if anyone has a blog or facebook or anything, please spread the word [01:02] I've just emailed pretty much every single relevant mailing list, translations, ubuntu news, ubuntu docs etc asking for help [01:02] hopefully we'll get some people now [02:01] http://ubuntu-manual.org/?audiobook april's fools? o_O [02:12] donri: Yep. :) [03:53] It occurs to me that I may need to hide the "Install Ubuntu" icon on the desktop if people are capturing from the CD without installing. [03:53] (It'd be easy to do) [03:53] (I'm just mentioning it 'cause I'm less likely to forget things I've mentioned to others) [03:54] Actually, maybe I should do that now... [04:07] Done. [04:16] ...Actually, I guess that wasn't necessary. The icon isn't there for the Quickshot user. [04:27] * Red_HamsterX creates a fake "Windows" partition on his test box, to create realistic-fake screencaps of the installation process. [04:27] XP is the dominant standard, right? [04:36] Gah. I'm going to lose to the es team :( [04:38] Though they seem to have missed the part about expanding the window... [05:02] godbyk, when you get a chance, can you pull the new server content for Quickshot? [05:02] The old 'first slide' reference was totally inaccurate. [05:03] Red_HamsterX: it should auto-update every 10 minutes. [05:04] That fast? [05:04] Wow. [05:04] Hmm... Seems I burned a bad LiveCD. [05:04] I Increase [05:04] The installation halted with an I/O error... [05:05] Do we have a checksum ofr the ISO? [05:05] I increased the rate the other day when daker was working on it a lot. [05:05] Nope [05:15] http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/get_latest.php?language=es&name=01-first-slide [05:15] Seems like Canonical failed at something [05:49] Wow. Lucid really *is* fast. [06:48] * nisshh is configuring irssi [06:51] http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/ One language done. :) [06:55] Red_HampsterX: coming along nicely! [07:13] nisshh, tab-completion. =P [07:14] Red_HamsterX: yea i know lol, my irssi is half configured so its diffictult to chat lol [07:14] fixed now though [07:14] irssi works by default, though. [07:14] Red_HamsterX: i know but iv made massive changes to my setup [07:15] so at one point it wasnt really working at all [07:59] * dutchie is committing updated po/pot files [08:05] oh god [08:05] more bloody conflicts [08:11] pushing... === dutchie changed the topic of #ubuntu-manual to: Ubuntu Manual Project discussion | STRING FREEZE in effect | Translators are good to go | Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual | Launchpad: https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual | IRC logs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com | Ubuntu Guidelines: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/IrcGuidelines | Code of Conduct: http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct/ | TODO LIST: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/aA6ygCXL9F [08:12] ... as soon as bzr/lp sort themselves out [08:23] OK, pushed [09:04] Hi. I am trying to install tex live 2009. I do not know what to do with this choice "Select where you'd like to install everything". I want to choose the same options chosen by default TexLive packages from repos. [09:15] thanks, figure it out, there are default values for the installation directories. [09:59] we have quickshot bugs! I missed two packages off of the live cd opps. [10:08] godbyk did you manage to get php compiled last night? [10:08] No, not yet. Sorry. [10:09] I have to download all the prerequisite libraries first and it's a bit of a process. [10:11] How's quickshot holding up? [10:13] no problem godbyk-android, quickshot is doing well i missed two packages off of the cd which makes the cd screenshot hard [10:13] just wanted to look at the english screenshots that have been done. [10:15] Oops. if you upload a new iso, I'll update our on the site for you. [10:16] I will wait untill the theme chnage comes through, but i may have forgotten the password as i thought you would delete the account [10:19] Good idea. I will email you the password later. [10:26] thanks [10:42] 10.10 is called Maverick Meerkat http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/336 [13:29] start translating! [16:41] hello o/ [16:41] o/ [16:45] looks like the docs team is worried going on the e-mail sent to the team [17:22] http://philbull.livejournal.com/54225.html [17:23] :( [17:25] o he moans at some stuff i wrote "An example comes from the "Media type" section of the "Connecting and using your printer" topic (p108). There's a list of the "media types" (types of paper, transparency and CD), but nothing that users are likely to find useful, like which way up to put the CD or what "Automatic" does. Focusing on tasks that the user needs to do, rather than tasks that the UI explicitly allows y [17:25] ou to do, is much more useful." [17:28] this would have been much less annoying *before* the string freeze [17:28] he didn't like it before we started he was very vocal on the docs mailing list [17:29] the system docs is so slow and very boring with no screenshots [17:30] * dutchie hopes this isn't going to get to mono levels of argument [17:31] Does the screenshot fixing script account for windows having different controls? [17:31] i am happy with the manual they can shout and scream all they like, they are entitled to an opinion. [17:32] donri: I think it will do i haven't looked to understand exactly how it works [17:34] https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/main/+lang/sv says website is 100% but the actual website looks more like 0% [17:35] it probably hasn't been synced yet [17:35] You should make the website autodetect language. [17:40] donri: the new website does, i think it is out sometime next week [17:40] * donri is translating the manual. \o/ [17:40] Core and kernel is the same word in Swedish. :( [17:44] godbyk are you around? [17:50] Swedish uses inflection for definite article; how to do "the \gls{terminal}"? [17:50] \gls{word for the terminal} [17:50] ooh, maybe not [17:50] ask godbyk [17:50] "\newglossaryentry{desktop environment}{name={desktop environment}, description={A generic term to describe a GUI interface for humans to interact with computers. There are many desktop environments such as GNOME, KDE, XFCE and LXDE just to name a few.}}" ← GUI? Really? GUI interface even? [17:51] string freeze, too late ;) [17:51] fix it in your translation if you like [17:51] Someone should bug that for 10.10 at least. [17:52] file it now then [17:53] i think you are right dutchie \gls{word for the terminal} [17:53] \newglossaryentry{⟨keyword⟩}{name={⟨term⟩},description={⟨definition⟩}} [17:54] I expect something like \glspl might be needed? [17:54] donri translate desktop environment , desktop environment, A generic term to describe a GUI interface for humans to interact with computers. There are many desktop environments such as GNOME, KDE, XFCE and LXDE just to name a few. [17:54] "A terminal" is "en terminal" but "the terminal" is "terminalen" ... [17:55] I get what to translate, just thought GUI was a bad choice there. [17:55] I doubt people know what a GUI is. [17:55] And a GUI interface is an interface interface. [17:55] i saw that :-) [17:59] Man, translating isn't easy. Crazy TeX formatting and technical english. [18:00] * donri is doing like one string a minute OSLT. [18:03] Maybe because I got lots of glossary entries to start with. :P [19:04] Hey, guys. [19:05] I'm going to be at my parents' house for the weekend, so I won't be online as much. (Leaving soon.) [19:05] You can still ping godbyk-android (and that'll reach my phone) if you need me. [19:06] For the glossary translation stuff: Leave the word inside \gls{word} alone (untranslated). Also leave the word alone as the first argument of \newglossaryentry. Just translate the name={translate me} and description={translate me} and add plural={plural form} if needed. [19:06] There are other keywords you can use there. If you run 'texdoc glossaries' it will open a pdf that explains it all in more detail than you'll ever want to know. [19:07] If there are other language complications regarding that, make a note of it and I'll look into them. [19:07] (It might be better to email it to the list so I can check it later.) === godbyk is now known as godbyk-away [19:14] * donri will have to redo most translations now. :D [19:17] hello all [19:17] Hi. [19:17] I've created a new EtherPad for Quickshot and I'm populating it with ideas now. [19:18] I will do a new cd once the theme change is out and fix the missing packages bug [19:18] Yeah, waiting for the theme fix is what I was going to suggest. [19:18] But I figured you reached the same conclusion, given you comment. [19:19] your* [19:19] bit of a silly package to miss but nothing major as it only effects one screenshot [19:20] And I could just go through all the languages and capture it if necessary. [19:20] true, the channel is getting more people again :-) [19:20] It only takes a minute or two. [19:21] have you got a link for the etherpad? [19:21] I can help out taking screenshots too if needed. [19:21] http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/f0VIdaLXWZ [19:21] Give me a few minutes to finish writing stuff. [19:21] And isn't it possible to manually fix the button order with gconf instead of waiting till it gets changed? [19:21] Yes, it is. [19:22] But we've got a fix for that anyway. [19:22] hackarounds/controlbox-fix/ [19:22] more and more people are taking screenshots [19:22] It's a small script that alters every screenshot with the correct box. [19:23] Hey, guys. The php recompiling is going to get pushed off until after the weekend. [19:23] I'm going to my parents' for the weekend (apparently). [19:23] No rush, godbyk. Thanks. :) [19:23] Steal their chocolate. [19:23] Steal it all! [19:23] lol. will do! [19:23] how's quickshot holding up? [19:23] have fun [19:23] It seems to be working well. [19:23] are screenshots pouring in? [19:23] awesome [19:23] Although the es team didn't resize some stuff. [19:24] what are your thoughts on mirrors for the cd? [19:24] So the installation process was captured at the default window size. [19:24] ubuntujenkins: we may be able to mirror it on archive.org or something; I'm not sure. [19:24] (I can redo that if it's a problem) [19:24] how do you look at them with out downloading them? [19:24] I still think a CD torrent might be a good way to go. [19:24] I think having mirrors would be a good thing, but I'm not sure how to go about getting them. [19:24] You could pluck them from data/ (which is just a directory index) or use get_latest.php. [19:25] I had an e-mail from a guy in malaysia saying it was really slow for him [19:25] I don't know if a torrent would be much use in our case. I don't know if the CD is getting downloaded that frequently (simultaneously). [19:25] http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/get_latest.php?language=en&name=03-rhythmbox-cd [19:25] I did look into it, though, and dreamhost disallows me running a tracker. [19:25] or a seeder. [19:26] http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/get_latest.php?language=es&name=01-who-are-you [19:26] thats cool i wanted to look at the ones done so far [19:27] http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/ for a summary [19:27] Hi all, just a short question regarding translations: Did the string freeze happen on 1st of april as planned? Because only the alpha-release can be downloaded from the LP page [19:27] http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/data/ frot he files [19:27] trijntje: Yes, the string freeze happened. The latest PDF is at http://ubuntu-manual.org/ubuntu-manual-beta.pdf [19:27] I'll update LP. [19:27] The string freeze did happen trijntje, [19:27] \textbf{This section is a work in progress.} ehum, string freeze? [19:28] beat me to it godbyk-android [19:28] donri: Lovely. That's probably not the only time you'll find a horrendous bug. :) [19:28] Maybe the Swedish po isn't updated. [19:29] ok thats great godbyk-away and ubuntujenkins, ill tell the dutch translation team [19:30] trijntje: You can also use Quickshot to take all the necessary screenshots for the Swedish translations. [19:30] Let us know if you encounter any problems or have any questions along the way. [19:31] donri: that is in the credits [19:32] trijntje: quickshot info can be found here http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/04/quickshot-released-ppa-and-livecd.html [19:33] ubuntujenkins: ill look into that, thanks [19:38] I've updated the download on LP. [19:39] I like the quickshot wizard desgin idea it would be good to keep all the windows the same size like the ubuntu installer [19:40] Instead of working with multiple windows, using a gtk assistant would be cleaner. [19:41] what is gtk assistant? [19:42] It's basically what we faked with quickshot, hmm, other name for a wizard. [19:43] Can see a sample screenshot on http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/stable/GtkAssistant.html [19:45] so one window with the centre that changes? [19:45] Yes, and with next/previous buttons. [19:46] thats what i was thinking as well [19:48] I also like the idea that the user is asked to import a config file that lists stuff like the user name the server etc.. [19:50] Could take that one step further too: present to the user a list of projects, a bit like Lernid shows a list of current events. [19:51] I'm done with adding stuff to the client for now, so feel free to tweak. [19:51] I was also thinking like lernid, I was unsure where the data came form for lernid [19:52] It's stored on a server somewhere. [19:53] it's on jonobacon.org in fact [19:53] ubuntu-uk.org needs a less-flaky connection. [19:55] how would we go about showing quickshot in peoples own language? but allow them to take screenshots in other languages? a drop down to select the quickshot program? [19:55] Good question... [19:56] Maybe have a $QUICKSHOT_LANG variable set in .profile? [19:56] if you have the translations done, (and you have a po dir), I'd expect quickly to take care of it [19:57] I think we need to find a better way of setting things than the .profile file. i am trying to work out where the Systems >> admin >> start up applications stuff is stored/ [19:59] dutchie, the problem is that we don't want the translations to be used. [19:59] Someone in the US, taking screenshots of a Russian interface, probably wants instructions in English. [20:00] ubuntujenkins, if I remember right, it's just a desktop file in ~/.config/autostart [20:01] it is titeuf_87 thats what we needed [20:01] Red_HamsterX: good point [20:02] now i can try autostarting quickshot again [20:07] Aww my Lucid VirtualBox isn't booting. :( [20:08] how can we tell if people haven't done the screenshots at the right resolution? obviously the desktop one will be wrong [20:08] We could either provide dimensions in the dictionary or just leave that to the review process. [20:08] (Which will become a middle-of-the-project process) [20:09] (Reviews will be doable right in a browser) [20:09] how can we add them to bzr using the browser? [20:11] We'd sever the bzr dependence on Quickshot's end. [20:11] When a file is accepted, it'd be tagged as such. [20:11] And then included in any generated archives. [20:12] they next version is going to be so cool [20:12] An admin would be able to view each collected screenshot for a languaghe and click an 'accept' or 'reject' button. [20:12] If it's rejected, all clients will be told to grab it again. [20:12] We could warn users before they upload them, though. [20:13] "This screenshot is substantially smaller than the reference. It is possible that you have captured the wrong window." [20:13] Something like that. [20:13] thats a good idea [20:25] Okay, I'm done with adding ideas for now. [20:26] looking very good [20:30] if we are decoupling ubuntu specific stuff does that mean we can't use glade? [20:32] Glade isn't Ubuntu-specific. [20:33] I mean things like assuming environment variables or paths that are only guaranteed to exist in Ubuntu. [20:33] 19:53:31 < Red_HamsterX> ubuntu-uk.org needs a less-flaky connection. [20:33] wassup? [20:33] i thought as it used the ubuntu template [20:33] I kets getting disconnected from the EtherPad, popey. :( [20:33] poke Daviey, it's on one of his VPSs, not on the main ubuntu-uk box [20:34] * Red_HamsterX changes 'Ubuntu-specific' to 'Project-specific'. [20:35] That's probably what I was thinking last night. [20:35] And then it somehow got warped. [20:36] I'm sure we'll refactor stuff as we encounterit over the next few months, until everything is cleanly separated. [20:36] Ideally, I should be able to take the Quickshot core, change a few values, and run it on a Gentoo box. [20:37] I understand what you mean now [20:37] (But if we can't decouple it to that extent, then that's fine, too) [20:37] Red_HamsterX: did you get my /msg ? [20:37] ahh [21:09] ermm.. can I have help translating the manual? [21:10] sure, ask your question [21:10] Ddorda: let me find the link [21:10] sure go ahead [21:10] ubuntujenkins: I know where to translate. but I have a problem [21:11] Hi @all [21:11] !ask | Ddorda [21:11] sorry Ddorda miss read it, feel to ask [21:11] Ddorda: Please don't ask to ask a question, simply ask the question (all on ONE line and in the channel, so that others can read and follow it easily). If anyone knows the answer they will most likely reply. :-) [21:11] hello daker [21:12] how am I suppose to translate items like this one: \newglossaryentry{applet}{name={applet}, description={An applet is a small program that runs in a \gls{panel}. Applets provide useful functions such as starting a program, viewing the time, or accessing the main menu.}} [21:12] i have something for you ubuntujenkins [21:14] Ddorda: these are the bits to translate any thing in the {} applet, applet ,An applet is a small program that runs in a, panel, Applets provide useful functions such as starting a program, viewing the time, or accessing the main menu. [21:14] is is shiny daker ? [21:15] ignore the commas Ddorda i just used them to separate the parts [21:15] i was working on new api for quickshot based on the old one [21:15] ubuntujenkins: okay. another thing: items with "en" for images and stuff - to change too? [21:15] 19:06:31 < godbyk> For the glossary translation stuff: Leave the word inside \gls{word} alone (untranslated). Also leave the word alone as the first argument of \newglossaryentry. Just translate the name={translate me} and description={translate me} and add plural={plural form} if needed. [21:16] Ddorda: ^^ [21:16] no leave the image stuff as it is Ddorda all that gets changed automatically in the build [21:16] nice daker we will have a look. [21:17] ubuntujenkins: okay. thanks. [21:17] daker: if you like you can send it to the whole team at quickshotdevs@lists.launchpad.net [21:17] Ive published Ubuntu-Manual in our LoCo - hopefully to finish the translation & the image shooting in 3 weeks :P [21:18] ubuntujenkins, oki [21:18] nice what language Ddorda, out of interest? [21:19] Hebrew [21:19] we are having a coding break apart from bugs to get the next design more planed and organised. [21:19] and not interest really, Im just the new PoC, so I do my job :P [21:19] and no* [21:20] dutchie: could you compile the latex-handout.pdf in Help/godbyk/latex-handout/ and copy it over to website/daker/ so we can point translators to it on the website? [21:20] will do [21:20] nice Ddorda I look forward to seeing the screenshots [21:21] Thanks! I think it's chapter 3 that shows the translations stuff but could be wrong. [21:21] I'll be in front of a computer again in a couple hours. [21:23] * dutchie will be away all day tomorrow [21:23] going down to london to watch the boat race [21:24] * ubuntujenkins 33 people in the channel its hotting up in here :-) [21:32] I have approved you daker [21:32] thanks [21:36] * daker doesn't like bzr conflicts [21:45] godbyk-away, where is the website daker-test.moved or daker-test ? [21:57] ubuntujenkins, i will push my api version in a few hours [21:58] daker: please pop it in a folder seperate from the main work at the moment please [21:58] sure [22:01] how can i force bzr to push a folder ? [22:01] have you done bzr add? [22:01] yes [22:02] then it should go. what error are you getting? [22:09] i made a mistake when i edit all of things on website without pulling ubuntujenkins [22:10] so i bzr gives me a lot of conflicts [22:10] i backup my work and i got a new branch [22:11] bzr uncommit is useful in fixing these problems [22:11] when i set up my work in the branch bzr didn't know that i made changes [22:13] * daker in troubles [22:13] $ bzr commit --unchange doesn't give anything :s [22:15] ubuntujenkins, could you pls confirm this https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-website/+bug/553683 [22:16] Launchpad bug 553683 in ubuntu-manual-website "wrong chapter names" [Undecided,New] [22:17] * daker doesn' know how to fix his problem with bzr f*** [22:27] daker: just looking at the bug now [22:27] just check if the chapters are correct or not [22:30] new chapters are: [22:30] working with ubuntu [22:30] Learning more [22:31] I think system maintenance >> Software management [22:32] ignore working with ubuntu [22:33] preferencs and hardware >> Hardware [22:34] kk [22:39] be back [23:00] godbyk-android, could pls point ubuntu-manual.org => daker-countdown [23:03] Daker: When I get to a computer again, sure. [23:03] kk [23:03] ubuntujenkins, !!! [23:03] What's new? [23:03] hello daker [23:04] you will see godbyk-android [23:04] ubuntujenkins, so new chapters are : [23:04] working with ubuntu [23:04] Learning more [23:04] Software management [23:04] Hardware [23:04] ? [23:04] installation [23:05] the ubuntu desktop [23:05] The command line [23:05] Security [23:05] Troubleshooting [23:05] godbyk-android: I can't compile latex-handout.tex [23:05] thats all of them [23:05] ubuntujenkins, thanks [23:06] l.19 \RequireXeTeX % XeTeX is required now [23:06] $ xetex [23:06] This is XeTeX, Version 3.1415926-2.2-0.9995.2 (TeX Live 2009) [23:06] dutchie: i have just made it [23:07] oh, ok [23:07] you can do the thing godbyk-android wanted tehn [23:07] yep will do [23:07] 21:20 #ubuntu-manual: < godbyk-android> dutchie: could you compile the latex-handout.pdf in Help/godbyk/latex-handout/ and copy it over to website/daker/ so we can point translators to it on the website? [23:07] yep adding it now [23:08] xelatex, actually. [23:08] dutchie, you should copy it in website/daker-countdown [23:09] godbyk-android: I've still got it installed [23:11] why does bzr add not work? [23:16] ubuntujenkins, speaking to me ? [23:16] no it was a genreal channel question. I have solved it by doing bzr add [23:17] or try this bzr commit --unchange [23:27] ubuntujenkins, pls check if it's correct http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/getinvolved [23:28] thats fine daker [23:28] thanks [23:31] Okay, I'm on my laptop now. Much nicer than typing on my phone. [23:31] hh [23:32] daker, you said you wanted ubuntu-manual.org to point to what? [23:33] to /website/daker-countdown [23:35] daker, can you copy the ubuntu-manual-* PDFs over to your new countdown site first? (don't forget the -beta and -draft symlinks) [23:35] kk [23:37] do you want any of the .moved sites? or can I kill those? [23:37] (I don't know that they're in the repository, but they didn't get deleted like they should've been, so I have to do it manually.) [23:38] no i don't want any one [23:38] okay. [23:40] should i pull ? [23:40] before i commit [23:40] sure. [23:40] always a good idea. [23:40] I haven't pushed anything though [23:42] ubuntujenkins, just pushed something [23:42] i did indeed [23:43] so next time you should put it /website/daker-countdown [23:44] anyone know how I should resolve the following: [23:44] Conflict: can't delete website/daker-test.moved because it is not empty. Not deleting. [23:44] Conflict adding file website/daker-test. Moved existing file to website/daker-test.moved. [23:44] Conflict adding file website/daker-test.moved. Moved existing file to website/daker-test.moved.moved. [23:45] i'll try to delete it, one minute [23:45] also, daker, if you want to move the site over to your site repository, I'm okay with that. [23:45] to lp:ubuntu-manual-website ? [23:45] sorry daker i had looked away from irc [23:45] daker: right [23:46] I will put it there next time [23:46] oki [23:46]