[00:21] what is the link to the Share Ubuntu stuff? anyone know off the top of your head? [00:25] akgraner: do you mean spread ubuntu ? [00:25] http://spreadubuntu.neomenlo.org/ [03:24] scuse the up coming flood [03:24] CONTEXT: [03:24] [22:17:28] could use a strong voice at UDS to get more support [03:24] [22:17:37] I had an hour long call with Amber last night about it and other related things [03:24] [22:17:44] and I hate phones :) [03:24] [22:18:01] but.. your g1? [03:24] [22:18:03] yeah I see wiki updates in my inbox several times a day :) [03:24] [22:18:13] she's been busy so I've been picking up the slack, but gosh I don't know anything about translations [03:24] [22:18:25] she's going to have a translations dude look at the howtotranslatewikis doc [03:24] [22:19:08] pleia2: all you need to know right now is that informally we are kicking butt. Imagine what could happen with full support and people who know how to get this organized properly [03:25] [22:19:51] yeah :) [03:25] [22:21:01] I was actually more willing to let the translations slide than the language-based subteams [03:25] [22:21:15] those subteams could be awesome or awful [03:25] [22:21:46] and having a dozen spring up because people get excited would probably make things lean toward awful :) [03:25] [22:21:53] I think I might need to put back the Translators page for someone else who can pick it up. I am getting a some extra hours at work [03:25] [22:22:07] pleia2: I have to agree with that [03:25] [22:22:28] unless there is strong leaders who are willing to get in there and work hard [03:25] [22:22:30] I am hoping that once we get the howto page done we can call it quits on the translations page (except for the signup bit, that will always change) [03:25] [22:22:44] akgraner suggested getting some loco teams involved [03:25] [22:22:54] that would be best [03:25] [22:23:21] loco's already have the team structure and can mobilize [03:26] Can I just say *SQUEE* to all this reeeeeeeeeeally overdue localisation stuff that's happening? [03:26] sure :) [03:26] hehe [03:26] SQUEE! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D [03:27] :-) [03:27] hehe [03:27] So anyway all you nice folks in LoCo's from all around the world, it would be awesome if you could get your people to start translating the wiki.ubuntu-women.org pages :) [03:27] pleia2 would remember how we've tried to ignite this before, but our monolingualness has stalled it soooo bad [03:28] hmmm my loco mostly speaks english [03:28] maco: your set then [03:28] IdleOne: and nothing else [03:28] but you do read/write russian [03:28] maco, *cough*Privilege*cough* [03:28] elky: yeah, it's nice to have multi-language people around! [03:28] s/you/YOU [03:29] * akgraner needs to learn some other language [03:30] my German teacher told me not to speak it - to only demonstrate I could read and write it - she mumbled something about my Southern accent :-/ [03:30] pleia2: in that HowToTranslate this wiki page. I think it would be good if we held on to the Ubuntu-Women term and not translate it [03:31] but I admire people who speak other languages -- I think that is so cool [03:31] IdleOne: if you mean "look at cyrillic and pronounce but not understand it"... [03:31] I rather agree with IdleOne here. It's like a wordmark. [03:31] elky: exactly [03:31] elky: i would think with more privilege they'd have gone to a school that taught them a second language... [03:32] and maco I didn't understand what you just said to me :/ [03:32] IdleOne: i can read russian into speaking-out-loud, but i wont know what it means [03:32] maco, English privilege: being able to get through lift not thinking about needing that stuff. [03:32] maco: ohhh [03:32] er, s/lift/life/ [03:33] IdleOne: my russian vocabulary is only about 20 words nowadays, and 10 of them are numbers. [03:33] ok so no russian translation for you [03:35] ummm I am probably off the mark here but akgraner I apologize if I keep side stepping you and going to pleia2 with my ideas [03:36] elky: i would put "doesnt know any foreign languages" in the "did not have the privilege of a good school" category, regardless where one lives [03:36] s'just because IdleOne and I are drinking buddies [03:36] haha [03:36] (I drink, he listens :P) [03:36] I listen good [03:36] she drinks better [03:36] lol [03:36] haha [03:36] IdleOne, don't apologize [03:36] IdleOne, we are a team [03:36] :-) [03:36] akgraner: :) [03:36] maco, I had the opportunity to learn Mandarin. I did not have the desperate need to do so for sake of succeeding in life. [03:37] and? english isnt necessary to succeed everywhere... [03:37] mmm sake [03:37] sometimes our communities try to *make it so* [03:37] s/try// [03:37] i think this translation thing is proof that we're actively trying NOT to make it so [03:38] IdleOne, I just keep track of the big picture and help facilitate where I can :-) [03:38] maco, Want a cookie? [03:38] for anyone needing to interact with anyone else in a foreign country, being a monoglot is rather a disadvantage. it just depends what country you're trying to interact with. [03:38] akgraner: ok the big picture is ( as I see it ) concerning this translation project. We need everybody to help :) [03:39] maco, next time you come across keffie_jayx, ask him how english literacy is a privilege. [03:40] IdleOne, yep :-) [03:40] Don't take my word for it, take the word of someone who lives in a country where it matters a hell of a lot. [03:40] where does he live again? [03:40] Venezuela [03:41] but wouldnt someone who doesnt know spanish be at a disadvantage in venezuela? [03:41] elky does 1200UTC work for you better than 2200 UTC? [03:41] even if they spoke english? [03:41] for IRC meetings? [03:41] maco, no. [03:41] (i recall this being problematic for me in france) [03:42] maco, he describes to me how people who come to venezuela expect venezuelans to speak english, and translators are provided if the recipient audience is unable to. Venezuelans who visit the US are expected to speak english. [03:42] dang that was phrased badly but I hope you know what I meant [03:43] elky: hrmph. silly english-only people ought to be paying for translators, not having them handed to them free [03:44] maco, English Privilege. [03:44] solution: stop providing free translation service [03:44] And this helps the 3rd world gain 1st world help how? [03:44] venezuela's the third world??? [03:44] Pretty much. [03:45] Third world isn't just starving ethiopians. [03:46] latin american countries kinda hug the border between third world and developing nations [03:47] but still. It's not so easy as "stop handing the people with money incentives to invest in your local communities" [03:47] http://linuxgrandma.blogspot.com/2010/04/i-love-geeks-on-irc.html [03:47] happy April Fools, everybody [03:47] I'm off to see my dad [03:48] later valorie :) [03:48] i tend to think of it more as "stop indulging the lazy americans who don't bother to learn at least one other language or even brush up on a few niceties before traveling abroad" [03:48] oops, that should have been in the other chan [03:48] sorry [03:48] maco, yeah, it's not like that. [03:50] maco, even in countries closer to the first world, english is a privilege. The shopkeeper in the tourist district that doesn't speak english is going to lose out to the other shopkeeper who does. [03:51] When I moved to PA I learned to speak the language, Spanish! [03:52] Even in situations like Germans visiting Spain for example, when the Germans speak English, they are going to fall back to that to try communicate. [03:52] IdleOne: heh spanish started in kindergarden when i was in school there [03:53] with 40+ million Spanish speaking people in the US I don't understand how it isn't an official language [03:53] there are no official languages [03:54] oh there is no way a shop could survive here without at least someone there speaking spanish [03:54] (in my neighborhood i mean) [03:54] even in Canada where there are roughly 3-4 million French speaking people We have two official languages [03:54] the US doesnt have an official language at all [03:54] yet it is english speaking [03:55] you can get most federal documents in many languages [03:55] depends where you are exactly [03:55] some places are english speaking [03:55] some, like miami, are not [03:55] or are bilingual at least [03:55] well the goverment uses English [03:55] IdleOne: old white men. it'll change ;-) [03:55] haha [03:55] When Pete lived in Brno he learned Czech - I even learned some as well (forgotten most of it now), but in Brno most people did not /would not speak English to us (the would speak German or Czech) but in Prague almost eveyone spoke English and you are right elky I tended to frequent those places that would speak English to me - where as my kids and husband spoke enough Czech and German to get by almost anywhere there [03:55] (though one of my aunts down in florida says that she cant talk to people in her town pretty much at all because she doesnt speak spanish) [03:56] * IdleOne is all for old white men in power to not be there anymore [03:56] akgraner, there are exceptions, sure. [03:57] things i dont plan to do again: travel to non-english countries with my family [03:57] (they seem to think "when in rome..." ends in "be obnoxious" instead of "do as the romans do") [03:58] lol [03:58] (also: they *cannot* pack) [03:58] just that is reason enough [03:58] not being able to pack! OMG like WT.......... [03:58] wait, I can't pack either [03:59] i mean they can put stuff in suitcases...but they have to be BIG suitcases...and its far too much stuff [03:59] so I am a big fan of learning the Language of where you are visiting - I told my kids they were not allowed to visit other countries and act like arrogant American brats - so they both pick up languages pretty quickly [03:59] an italian man called my sister "bella" (beautiful) the first day we were there. she responded "prego" (you're welcome) instead of "grazi" (thank you) [03:59] maco: I compensate with my lack of packing ability with ability to carry all the suitcases and not complain about it [04:00] maco: that isn't so bad [04:00] unlike their mother - :-/ I have a hard time with English at times :-) [04:00] he knew what she meant :) [04:01] I called a lady Sir today on the subway :/ [04:01] IdleOne: or at least all the nurses did. the bust out laughing (we were in the "salud mentale" part of l'ospidale waiting for our cousin to show up since he's a doctor there) [04:01] I felt like such a jerk [04:01] IdleOne: or Peppermint Patty [04:03] it was really completely innocent. See there was this man who was not moving out of the lady's way so she could move to a better standing spot and I was thinking of telling the man to " Sir please make some room" and it came out "Sir here take my seat" :/ but I was looking right at the poor women :( [04:03] woman* [04:03] so you accidentally gave away your seat? [04:03] haha NO I accidentally made an ass of myself and probably insulted the lady [04:04] but she smilled and took the seat [04:04] smiled* [04:05] * pleia2 nudges people back to -women [04:05] * IdleOne nudges back [04:05] oh gosh, after mentioning it at the meeting and everything I STILL forgot to do to the team report [04:06] pleia2: thanks for reminding me ;P [04:06] :) [04:07] neat, someone prettified our reporting page [04:12] Yeah, I think akgraner and wikis are friends now. [04:13] \o/ [04:13] I told her the big secret of how to do wiki stuff. Steal it, with prejudice. [04:14] In think the u-w wiki could use some flashy gifs [04:14] :) [04:14] :-) yep [04:14] it's more love and so much less hate for wikis these days [04:14] and sparkles [04:14] lots and lots of sparkles [04:14] IdleOne, assuming you mean animated ones, I am now going to stare at you until you repent and beg for mercy. [04:14] * elky commences glaring. [04:15] IdleOne, I like clean lines but that is just me [04:15] :-) [04:15] * IdleOne glares back [04:15] * IdleOne does not blink [04:15] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-women.org/+spec/ubuntu-women-project-m-goals is our current blueprint for -m, right? [04:15] I think that is why I like our wikis so much [04:15] errr elky is like a cat, she can stare down a statue :( [04:15] yep I need to add the stuff in the right format [04:16] pleia2, ^^^ [04:16] * IdleOne takes back the animated flashy gif stuff [04:16] akgraner: ok thanks, just adding a link to our report [04:16] Whee! [04:16] * elky hugs IdleOne [04:16] * IdleOne hugs back [04:16] yep I'll get it in before Saturday night [04:16] pleia2: should I do the little lower joke on elky? [04:16] lol [04:16] so I don't have to worry about on Sunday as my Sunday's are all UWN these days :-) [04:17] I was wondering, do we want ubuntu membership to be a requirement for team leadership? [04:17] I think it sets a good example [04:17] :( [04:17] pleia2: for team leadership? [04:17] IdleOne: our project encourages involvement, and to gain membership [04:18] pleia2, I think so. We used to expect it for irc ops, but then a few declined despite eligability. I think for a leadership position though it should be. [04:18] * pleia2 nods [04:18] especially, as you say, one that wants to foster that exact action [04:18] probably a good idea yeah [04:18] I think so too but I was wondering as a side why do leaders not have to sign the leader CoC [04:18] guess I need to get my act together and go for membership at some point [04:19] by signing the CoC you agree to the LCoC, it's at the bottom [04:19] akgraner: they should [04:19] ops have to agree to it also [04:19] I know but do you know how many "leaders" don't know about the LCoC [04:19] "In addition to this Code of Conduct, we hold our community leaders (such as IRC operators, Forums staff, team leaders and LoCo coordinators) to an even higher standard which is documented in the Leadership Code of Conduct." [04:20] akgraner, mostly the ones that have been incumbent since last decade [04:20] yeah, I wish people would actually read the CoC before signing it [04:20] it's not just a TOS :) [04:20] (tehehe, i love saying that) [04:21] pleia2, I was just curious that's all and thought maybe it was just me that encounter that [04:21] pleia2, ircland effectively declares it the ToS though. It's the only way we can enforce it. [04:21] elky: fair enough, not "just" a ToS then :) [04:22] pleia2, yeah. there's a difference between adopting it as such, and becoming a signatory to it [04:22] I had to sign a CoC for work :/ [04:22] made sure I read it completely [04:22] * pleia2 nods [04:22] I didn't want to agree to anything really stupid [04:23] turns out that it was just a piece of paper and nobody really follows or enforces it [04:24] heh [04:26] I have heard people tell racist jokes right to the face of black people [04:26] and it just passes like nothing [04:26] anyway not uw related sorry [04:28] ok, in case I missed anything: http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/ReportingPage [04:29] umm translation project? [04:30] not discussed in any formal fashion [04:31] it's on there [04:31] linked to your email starting the discussion [04:32] ohh haha I skipped right over it [04:32] :) [04:32] :) [04:32] then it is perfect :) [04:32] * pleia2 bows [04:32] ;) [04:32] oh, amber was on floss weekly! [04:34] pleia2, yeah remind me to thank you for telling the whole wide world :-P [04:34] :D [04:34] haha [04:35] gosh, we were busy in march [04:36] Let's keep it up! [04:36] idle hands and all that [04:39] I forgot that the mailing list is a formal discussion forum [04:39] :) [04:39] that's where we prefer to do it TBH [04:39] meetings and irc here are grand, but we reach more people with the list [04:39] yes, gets more people involved [04:39] yep and we can point more people to the list links [04:40] I think we got 3-4 people from the ML who started to translate and I know I got two people from the global jam [04:41] :D [04:42] I'll be able to devote more time starting next week to translating. my schedule changed and I will be starting at 10am [04:43] I do my best work in the morning lol [04:55] akgraner, i had like thirty bajillion people tell me they heard my name mentioned on floss weekly :P [04:56] elky, yeah I talked about ya :-P [04:56] did you not listen - that earns a kick :-P [04:56] I'm not sure they took a moment to think "oh, this person says she works on stuff with melissa, can't possibly have told her, i'd better clue melissa in" [04:57] I did. I'm still being told daily [04:57] hehe [04:57] :-P [04:57] yeah so I tried to mention a ton of people as the UW Project is not about me but the team [05:00] sofa_repo is um... trying to stir us up. [05:00] yes [05:00] im trying to rebuff without escalating [05:01] and hope he gets bored [05:04] maco: he doesnt seem to get the message [05:15] hey all - so we need to announce world play day before the next meeting - so elky and I were tweaking the proposed announcement - can you all take a look and see what you think? http://etherpad.com/RjdKP1czI6 [05:17] looking [05:17] * maco cant read [05:18] i thought you were tweeding the announcement [05:18] as in, covering it with tweed fabric [05:18] ... [05:18] * elky bops maco over the head [05:18] VIOLENCE! [05:18] hehe [05:18] * pleia2 *likes* princess dolls [05:18] :) [05:19] pleia2, but you also like shiiiiiiiiiiny [05:19] princesses can be hackers too! ;) [05:19] not actually a critique, just sayin' [05:19] hacker Barbie [05:19] So umm why a womans T? [05:20] I admit I didn't read the whole thing [05:20] IdleOne: because the entrants are female... [05:20] because it will give to a girl [05:20] given [05:20] pleia2: oh right! i need to buy you your pink wiimote! [05:20] akgraner: wait shouldnt it be children's T then? [05:20] they already sent it [05:20] what if a male wants to enter? /me read first, don't answer that [05:21] why the no-derivatives license? [05:21] and we went with least common denominator.. [05:21] IdleOne: the *point* is to get pictures of girls using computers, that's what we're showcasing ;) [05:22] akgraner: that means we can't use them in a collage or anything [05:22] maco, at worst it goes to a female parent or an aunt, or whatever [05:22] ok so it will be a T for the child [05:22] got it [05:22] I'd lean toward attribution [05:22] pleia2: we can get explicit permission for that, id think [05:22] * IdleOne learns to think/read before shooting off at the mouth [05:22] this is all really project marketing stuff. laying the foundations to get eyes and contributors [05:22] I just asked the question [05:22] pleia2: it means other random folks cant use them for random stuff they dont have permission for [05:23] I wasn't saying no to the derivatives [05:23] (im sure there are noncommercial uses their parents still wouldnt be ok with) [05:23] I was asking if we wanted to limit it [05:23] maco: sure, and neither can we, or random locos who do educational outreach and want photos of girls too [05:24] yeah, we should probably say 'for use by the ubuntu project' [05:24] I am running the waiver/photo release past Canonical, mdke, and the CC [05:24] * pleia2 nods [05:24] and a waiver is adequate for "remix" by the CC-nd-nc licences [05:24] afaik [05:24] elky, how did I word that in the waiver [05:24] * pleia2 winces at NC [05:24] well right, its like a secondary license [05:25] akgraner, i forget, but we can change it. the surrounding words [05:25] maco, it's a waiving of rights [05:25] did we explain to jono what random means? [05:25] give my permission to the Ubuntu Project, which includes the Ubuntu Women Project [05:25] * pleia2 grins [05:25] pleia2, i think he might know that one this time [05:25] hehe [05:25] hehe yes he knows :-) [05:25] anyway, looks good :) [05:25] oh hahah right [05:25] I really wanted to cry last time. === JanC_ is now known as JanC [05:26] i think i had lyz and amber convinced i /was/ [05:26] pleia2: ive heard of people having images on flickr that their friends put up and they're in the pic and some corp takes the CC-BY photo and goes "great! we can photoshop in our project and use this for an ad!" and then they get Not Happy [05:26] I made it [05:26] hehe - well now that you mention it [05:26] hi cleaverroot [05:26] pleia2: s/project/product/ [05:27] cleaverroot, background: hey all - so we need to announce world play day before the next meeting - so elky and I were tweaking the proposed announcement - can you all take a look and see what you think? http://etherpad.com/RjdKP1czI6 [05:27] maco: yeah, but it also means your photo can't be used in a flier for an ubuntu class that doctormo charges $5 for to cover admin costs [05:27] hi cleaverroot [05:27] pleia2: i have *clearly* been around FOSS too much if i think of everything that gets made as "project" [05:27] elky: hi [05:27] anyway, that's why I like attribution :) [05:27] brb then [05:28] I'm not entirely following this discussion, but in case of photographs of individuals, I suggest you restrict their usage somewhat [05:28] JanC: yes, we are [05:28] pleia2: though i think if more entities paid attention to the fact that you need both A) a license to the photo and B) a model waiver... then i'd put NC in the rubbish bin. [05:28] crap which reminds me I need to tell Markdude I used one of his pics for something (he told me I could I just need to let him know what) [05:28] * maco looks back at last sentence [05:29] i've been around british people too mcuh [05:29] otherwise it can be used for whatever (to promote cornflakes for example) [05:29] I think we might want to hear what mdke/CC say [05:29] * pleia2 nods [05:29] JanC: yes, that's been mentioned :) [05:30] pleia2: I didn't read all the scrollback yet ☺ [05:30] maco: you started drinking tea too? [05:30] ok folks 6am is coming up fast, good night [05:30] right I'll send the concerns in the email to see how the permission should be worded [05:30] in some countries commercial usage needs special permission by the model, but e.g. in the Netherlands that's not required [05:31] JanC, we're asking for a model release for all subjects of the photo [05:31] Is that final copy? [05:31] good night, IdleOne [05:31] JanC, did you see the link at all? [05:31] cleaverroot: it's the discussion copy (we're discussing it now) [05:31] cleaverroot, nope we are tweaking it now [05:32] cleaverroot: i said "rubbish" instead of "trash" [05:32] elky: what I mean is that a model release is not required in the Netherlands [05:32] JanC, that's wonderful dear, i'm not in the netherlands. [05:32] canonical is not either. [05:32] k, I think it's a little clunky. I might move first paragraph to second and re-write a first one [05:33] :) [05:33] cleaverroot: i assume you mean the "Firstly, GO READ LINKS!" paragraph? [05:34] no, I skipped that one I think that is fine [05:34] let me try to mock one up see what you think [05:34] your definition of "first" and my definition of "first" seem not to agree [05:35] hehe [05:35] no no, the OTHER first paragraph! [05:35] :) [05:35] your /other/ left. [05:35] I suggest you allow a non-commercial license, or maybe better a "non-commercial except to promote ubuntu" license [05:36] JanC, a waiver is a waiving of licence rights in the case of the waiver recipient. [05:36] not required does not mean not effective. [05:36] cleaverroot, do you want the paragraph that starts "It hurts" and the links paragraph [05:36] after the links one I meant to say [05:36] grrrrr [05:37] I kinda like leading up the the heavy paragraph but what do you all think [05:37] what I mean is that with a photograph that's licensed as CC-BY-ND, every company can use that photograph, as long as they don't alter it [05:39] dang I *never* get to bed before midnight - wow where does the time go? [05:39] akgraner: its midnight? dang. [05:39] oh REALLY DANG [05:39] yeah - can you believe it [05:39] homework is due at 2am grrrr [05:39] it's not even 10 :D [05:39] akgraner, i dont think this is going out before tomorrow anyway hon [05:39] and takes like 6 hours [05:39] im screwed [05:40] elky, yeah - I'll get the email out the the CC, Canonical and mdke for feedback and we can shoot for Monday [05:40] maco, eep, damn how that gastro bug knocked you around tonight isnt it. [05:40] is that cool [05:40] * elky winks at maco [05:40] akgraner, i think we can cope with monday, yeah [05:40] elky: what what? [05:40] akgraner, but im not sure easter weekend is going to work quite like that [05:41] maco, email now saying you've been sick since after dinner. or whatever. [05:41] dang I knew I forgot something today - [05:41] elky: had a week to do it. he'll just say i shouldve done it yesterday [05:41] maco, :( [05:41] akgraner: to buy baskets? [05:41] then stop yapping, start tapping. [05:41] and bunnies! [05:41] no Mass.. [05:41]