[01:10] <Pici> Hello ladies, gentlemen and small furry creatures from Alpha Centauri, I have returned to irc.
[02:03] <bazhang> ah okay zeka is danijel
[02:41] <rww> Hello! I come in search of people with magic factoiding powers!
[02:41] <rww> ubottu: search controls
[02:41] <rww> the last two in that list need deleting, and !controls could do with being made global and linking to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/light-themes/+bug/532633/comments/564
[02:43] <tsimpson> !controls-#ubuntu-mozillateam
[02:43] <tsimpson> !controls-#ubuntu+1
[02:43] <tsimpson> !-controls-#ubuntu+1
[02:43] <tsimpson> rww: is the current !controls-#ubuntu-mozillateam OK, or does it need editing?
[02:45] <rww> minor stylistic changes and links to that URL I mentioned ^^^
[02:47] <tsimpson> I'll change the '.' to a '|', because I think it looks better
[02:47] <tsimpson> !controls is <reply> In Lucid, the minimize, maximize, and close buttons have been moved to the left side. For more information, please see http://alturl.com/b6ja | To move them back to the right-hand side, see http://alturl.com/x5d6
[02:47] <tsimpson> !forget controls-#ubuntu+1
[02:47] <tsimpson> !forget controls-#ubuntu-mozillateam
[02:47] <tsimpson> !controls
[02:48] <rww> tsimpson: thanks for your help :)
[02:48] <tsimpson> you're welcome :)
[06:06] <Tm_T> Pici: nooooooooooooooo!
[06:29] <tritium> Good evening.
[06:56] <Tm_T> good morning, huomenta
[11:27] <bazhang> is neoraj a bot? he keeps with the what is xyz every couple of minutes
[11:28] <jussi01> !isitout
[11:28] <jussi01> that needs fixin
[11:29] <jussi01> !-isitout
[11:30] <jussi01> !no, istitout is <reply> nope. Lucid is due 29th April. More info closer to the date.
[11:30] <jussi01> !no, isitout is <reply> nope. Lucid is due 29th April. More info closer to the date.
[11:30] <jussi01> lol
[11:30] <gnomefreak> bazhang: what channel and best way to find out is to try talking to it
[11:30] <bazhang> gnomefreak, tried, no response in #ubuntu
[11:31] <gnomefreak> than i would say good chance its a bot
[11:32] <jussi01> if it isnt saying anything anymore, then leave it. if it makes a nuisance of its self...
[11:33] <gnomefreak> bazhang: i just pm'ed it/him/her
[11:34] <gnomefreak> can someone set the bot to use Lucid when using !info. and can we get it at same time as +1 channel is ubuntu-mozillateam
[11:35] <bazhang> gnomefreak, ok, seems not respond in channel nor via PM, and repeated the user_x see my private message to a user
[11:40] <gnomefreak> i didnt get an answer either. I say leave it for now if it starts talking again we can pm him (maybe his just afk atm
[11:40] <bazhang> ok thanks
[11:43] <gnomefreak> bazhang: np
[11:43]  * gnomefreak here to help :)
[13:00] <gnomefreak> jussi01: if you are still here i forgot if anyone answer but can we make the bot give !info for #ubuntu-mozillateam give the same output as in +1 (always the dev cycle) example +1 uses Lucid !info while its in devel
[13:03] <jpds> !staff | < ~Annaa> http://tinypic.zapto.org/2kn4m8.png?t=1270382061 do my breasts look to big?
[13:04] <gnomefreak> jpds: the redirct link is http://pcpunk.com/reviews/hosting/?utm_source=AdWords&utm_medium=PPC&utm_term=web%20hosting&utm_content=4907897496&utm_campaign=best-compare&Network=Content&SiteTarget=diy-hosting.net&gclid=CPmOgpGA7aACFQObnAodWXMcFg
[13:05] <gnomefreak> :) i always test links given
[13:05] <jpds> He's spammed -motu, -devel, and #ubuntu.
[13:05] <jpds> And +1.
[13:05] <jpds> And -server.
[13:06] <jpds> !staff | Hi ^--.
[13:10] <tsimpson> @channel #ubuntu-mozillateam plugins.PackageInfo.defaultRelease lucid
[13:10] <tsimpson> gnomefreak: done
[13:10] <gnomefreak> tsimpson: thanks
[13:15] <tsimpson> !staff | please kill Annaa (~Annaa@110.23.99.45), thanks
[13:15] <jpds> Tried that.
[13:15] <gnomefreak> tsimpson: its old info (at least for firefox) is it that the bot hasnt updated yet?
[13:16] <tsimpson> gnomefreak: it should update daily (cron job)
[13:16] <gnomefreak> tsimpson: thanks
[13:17] <gnomefreak> jpds: tsimpson seveas brought it up in #freenode and the user/bot hit there as well
[13:17] <jpds> gnomefreak: It hit a lot more channels than that.
[13:17] <gnomefreak> but no staff has answered
[13:17] <gnomefreak> jpds: yep
[13:31] <gnomefreak> is there a rythembox channel?
[13:32] <gnomefreak> i dont see one
[13:51]  * elky wonders if he's still laughing.
[14:36] <gnomefreak> i dont see a reason to remove or ban him at this time. can someone help me keep an eye on him (im going to be in and out for a little while
[14:36] <gnomefreak> )
[15:23] <jrib> lukn 4wrd 2 ur rpl at d earlst
[15:23] <jrib> that's just plain impressive
[15:23] <jrib> at could be @ maybe
[15:47] <jussi01> !1337 | jrib
[15:47] <jussi01> :D
[15:52] <nhandler> @login
[15:53] <bazhang> that's got to be the second or 3rd time neoraj has asked 'what is ssh' what is telnet' and more
[15:56] <gnomefreak> that cant be good
[15:56] <bazhang> at least he's not a bot :)
[15:57] <gnomefreak> true but both are popular for hacking
[17:44] <bazhang> richthegeek was also pulling 'pranks' in #ubuntu have in PM now
[17:45] <bazhang> such as just now in -ot
[17:48] <bazhang> topyli, ^^
[17:48] <topyli> ah. thanks
[17:57] <bazhang> richthegeek, something we can help you with?
[17:58] <richthegeek> bazhang: ofc. You suggested ubuntu-offtopic
[17:58] <richthegeek> topyli took offence whilst not explaining why
[17:58] <topyli> i think richthegeek came for clarification on as to why one should follow the guidelines on ubuntu channels
[17:58] <richthegeek> http://richthegeek.dyndns.info:62/log.txt
[17:58] <bazhang> richthegeek, for chat not 'pranks' of the nature you were pulling
[17:58] <topyli> richthegeek, that's why you're forwarded here
[17:59] <richthegeek> topyli: no, I came to ask why you kicked for something not actually against the rules of the channel or network
[18:00] <richthegeek> topyli: I am asking for an actual justification or reason, rather than just "because I said so"
[18:00] <topyli> richthegeek, two things. first, all the guidelines actually say is "be nice" and "don't be stupid". it's not a list of stuff you can't do
[18:00] <richthegeek> topyli: these are neither nasty nor stupid
[18:00] <topyli> second, when people ask you to stop a discussion, you do so
[18:01] <richthegeek> topyli: no, when someone asks you to stop a discussion with justification, you do so
[18:01] <richthegeek> when someone merely asks you stop, you ask for said justification
[18:01] <richthegeek> you proferred none
[18:02] <topyli> i already did the best i can. you were doing to do harmful stuff, and was asking for help, and i tried to explain that this is not allowed
[18:02] <topyli> eventually, all i can do is disallow it
[18:02] <richthegeek> topyli: it wasn't harmful stuff
[18:02] <richthegeek> and whilst you forbade it
[18:02] <richthegeek> you didn't point to where it was forbidden
[18:03] <topyli> why don't the apple stores invite you to mess with their laptops then?
[18:03] <richthegeek> that is why there are rules topyli, so single operators don't act like small gods banning based on who disagrees with them
[18:03] <richthegeek> and they do, in a sense
[18:03] <richthegeek> its banter with two of my friends
[18:03] <richthegeek> who find it enjoyable outside of their work
[18:04] <topyli> richthegeek, i'm not looking to discuss your so-called pranks. i would like you to promise to quit misbehaving on -ot, so i can let you back in
[18:05] <richthegeek> topyli: again, it doesn't matter what *you* want to discuss on OT. That's sorta the point. Unless it is something actually against the rules that are written, you are way outta bounds
[18:06] <topyli> i think there was a sufficient concensus on my understanding of the guidelines, when they opped me
[18:06] <richthegeek> topyli: and yet you cannot justify your kick beyond "because I said so"
[18:06] <topyli> if that has changed, my operator status may be re-evaluated of course
[18:06] <richthegeek> topyli: you say it is harmful to the machine or the store, when both are false
[18:06] <topyli> however, right now we have more pressing matters, such as your ban
[18:07] <richthegeek> topyli: I have no problem following the rules that are written. However you have banned based on personal feelings as opposed to magistratal conditions.
[18:08] <richthegeek> topyli: and none of the rules, before you suggest it, say that "the ops word is law". Quite the opposite, in fact
[18:09] <topyli> i had no-one else's judgement at my disposal. mine says you shouldn't talk about your plans on ubuntu chanels, so i asked you to stop. you did not
[18:09] <richthegeek> topyli: without justification. You still haven't properly justified it in a way that holds up
[18:10] <bazhang> this seems to be going in circles
[18:10] <bazhang> topyli, if I may?
[18:10] <topyli> yep, i'm getting ready to quote myself from above
[18:10] <topyli> sure. thanks
[18:11] <bazhang> richthegeek, the issue at hand is your quiet in #ubuntu and subsequent move to #ubuntu-offtopic ; as I advised in PM chat is the latter and support only in the former. discussing channel policies you were invited to come here
[18:12] <richthegeek> bazhang: and we are discussing channel policies, or rather topyli's apparent lack of application of them
[18:13] <bazhang> richthegeek, you clearly disagree with the channel policy of no pranks, no jokes, stay ontopic in #ubuntu and misunderstood that being asked to stop in #ubuntu-offtopic means you should stop, or the #ubuntu-offtopic was anything goes.
[18:13] <richthegeek> bazhang: you state it's a policy, yet you cannot point to it anywhere in the guidelines
[18:13] <bazhang> richthegeek, are you interested in working out the removal of the quiet in #ubuntu , and / or the ban in #ubuntu-offtopic ?
[18:14] <bazhang> richthegeek, judging from you r comments since you joined here, you seem less than interested for dealing with those very salient points, and wish to debate the channel policies.
[18:14] <richthegeek> bazhang: yes. I agree that it was the wrong place in #ubuntu, although I think you were a bit quick to kick (instead of merely point me elsewhere). However, the ban in OT is something I believe to be against the guidelines as they are written (as opposed to inferred interpretation)
[18:15] <richthegeek> bazhang: the channel policies are *why* those "salient points" exist
[18:15] <richthegeek> bazhang: *that* is what i am discussing
[18:15] <bazhang> richthegeek, well, the channel policies of all ubuntu channels are the same, when asked to stop, by anyone, operator or no, its best to do so.
[18:16] <richthegeek> bazhang: best, but not a rule. That brings it down to *who* asks you to ask and why
[18:16] <topyli> for the record, the guidelines do. say you should stop when asked. to quote, "drop a discussion if you are asked," and "take the discussion elsewhere if someone takes exception."
[18:16] <richthegeek> in this case, it's because the OP asked and the OP disagrees with the morals of the discussion
[18:16] <bazhang> richthegeek, continuing to argue about them  is not a good way to move forward, which is what we are trying to do in this channel
[18:16] <topyli> more generally, not everything can be listed there
[18:16] <richthegeek> that means it became a personal issue, and a moral judgment. Thus the OP is abusing his power
[18:17] <richthegeek> bazhang: arguing is the only any form of justice can occur. Otherwise it is you simply threatening and expecting me to grovel
[18:17] <bazhang> richthegeek, it has nothing to do with the OP as you state, and everything to do with your pranks are not welcome in any ubuntu channels. any user asking you to stop, OP or no, is sufficient.
[18:18] <bazhang> richthegeek, so, shall we try to move forward with the quiet and ban issues?
[18:18] <richthegeek> bazhang: can you please point to where either of these assumptions are written?
[18:19] <richthegeek> bazhang: the issue still stands regardless of what you wish. If you are acquescing because you realise you are in the wrong, it still stands. If you are merely tired of this discussion, it still stands.
[18:19] <bazhang> richthegeek, which are you referring to? staying on topic? not pulling pranks? offtopic for offtopic ?
[18:19] <richthegeek> bazhang: "when someone asks you to stop, stop", and "pranks aren't welcome in OT"
[18:20] <richthegeek> bazhang: I have been reading the guidelines and CoC, and neither mention either
[18:20] <bazhang> richthegeek, you were discussing doing damage on Apple property.
[18:20] <richthegeek> bazhang: no, damage implies permanence
[18:21] <richthegeek> bazhang: I was discussing how to do non-permanent things to a machine
[18:21] <richthegeek> bazhang: there is a *massive* difference between "kill 104" and "rm -Rf /"
[18:21] <bazhang> richthegeek, you seem more interested in arguing about policy, and not as interested in resolving these issues.
[18:21] <richthegeek> bazhang: again, the policy and it's implementation is why these issues have occured
[18:22] <richthegeek> bazhang: now, I have asked you and topyli to justify the actions, and you have deferred and changed tack repeatedly. If you cannot justify them, admit you are in the wrong. If you can, prove it
[18:24] <bazhang> richthegeek, it appears you wish to appeal your ban and quiet in #ubuntu-offtopic and #ubuntu respectively
[18:24] <topyli> the actions are consistent with the current policy. if you want changes to policy, it's better to discuss it on the mailing list where more people can take part
[18:25] <richthegeek> bazhang: how are you not getting this... JUSTIFY the actions and I will apologize
[18:25] <richthegeek> topyli: the policy disagrees with you
[18:25] <bazhang> richthegeek, at this point other operators will review the logs and come to a judgment on the matter.
[18:25] <richthegeek> topyli: point to this policy, and the relevant sections, or you are no more than a priest saying "God hates gays"
[18:25] <bazhang> !appeals | richthegeek
[18:26] <bazhang> richthegeek, please note the links above and continue on with the appeals process
[18:26] <richthegeek> bazhang: if you know that you are wrong, (as the CoC says), Step Down Considerately
[18:26] <richthegeek> ;D
[18:27] <bazhang> richthegeek, as you have visited here (step 1) and are still unhappy (apparently) then the next steps are described in the link above.
[18:28] <richthegeek> bazhang: of course I am unhappy. The ban is unjustified. Requests for justification have resulted in repetition and avoidance. If you cannot answer the question, you agree it is unjustified, so lift the ban.
[18:28] <richthegeek> bazhang: it is a logical boolean position - either justify the ban or lift it.
[18:29] <bazhang> richthegeek, outside parties will review the actions and take the necessary steps. please continue the appeals process as described in the link above
[18:32] <richthegeek> bazhang: fine. You are failing as an OP though. You represent the community, and it is only through the rules that you are meant to wield the power granted to you, whilst remaining impartial against any personal grudges. Your position with regards to enforcement should be that of an ideal Judge or Barrister. I believe you have failed in regards to this, and further I believe you realise this yourself. If you don't, take a day and r
[18:32] <bazhang> the last part got cut off
[18:32] <bazhang> take a day and r
[18:33] <richthegeek> eview your actions and no doubt you will.
[18:33] <topyli> richthegeek, if there is nothing further, please part the channel as we don't allow idling on this channel. feel free to return if you wish to discuss your current bans in a constructive manner, or if we can help you with anything else
[18:33] <richthegeek> one moment, just copying to log file
[18:34] <bazhang> !logs
[18:34] <bazhang> richthegeek, ^^
[18:34] <richthegeek> bazhang: just trimming it down to the relevant sections (not editing for bias, just removing non-convo lines)
[18:35] <topyli> richthegeek, this channel is automatically logged anyway :)
[18:35] <richthegeek> topyli: I know, read previous reply
[18:35] <topyli> so is #ubuntu, but -offtopic is not
[18:40] <bazhang> well time to step down :/
[18:41] <topyli> bazhang, thanks for the help, not much we can do though
[18:41] <bazhang> topyli, he seemed more interested in arguing semantics than resolving the issues at hand
[18:43] <bazhang> afaik those types of pranks are not welcome in any ubuntu channels, and continuing to argue channel policy, chiding people to 'lighten up' is offtopic in #ubuntu
[18:44] <topyli> appeal process seems to be progressing, so it's not our job anymore
[18:44] <bazhang> ok
[21:30] <topyli> gone
[22:53] <jpds> What fun.