[00:02] I'm back home now. [00:02] Internet connection is a bit unstable at the moment, though. [00:42] Red_HamsterX: When someone starts a new translation, what do we have to do to tell quickshot about it? [00:52] Just add an entry to config/languages [00:52] On the server. [01:00] Want me to get involved in the current mailing list discussion, godbyk? [01:01] Red_HamsterX: sure, if you like. I just pointed Anup to the Quickshot web page. [01:02] Yeah, I just got your response. [01:02] I've got a couple more languages (at least) for you to add to quickshot. Let me finish fixing this bug in the ubuntu-manual.cls file (which causes language codes with underscores in them to fail to compile). [01:02] There are now 55 .po files for ubuntu-manual. [01:02] We could map those to some other value. [01:03] Well, it's just a bit of funkiness inside latex. [01:03] It thinks they're subscripts? [01:03] Since it normally thinks that _ means 'subscript', it wants to put it in math mode, or expects it to be escaped with a backslash. [01:03] yep. [01:03] but I'm going to tell it to shove off and put up with it. :) [01:04] If remapping the values somehow would work, I can implement a hack for now. [01:04] If you can't get your fix working right. [01:04] (The problem is that in the code in ubuntu-manual.cls, we sometimes need it to be escaped, and sometimes it's escaped internally, so it hates me either way. But I'll have it all tidied up soon.) [01:05] since everything else in the toolchain is using the _ it seems like it's best to beat latex over the head until it caves than to force everyone else to work around latex. :) [01:09] I think I've got it fixed now. [01:09] Just testing with a couple translations. [01:12] Fixed! [01:14] Red_HamsterX: Here are the languages I've got in the manual so far: af ar ast bg bn ca cs da de el en_AU en_GB eo es et eu fa fi fr gl grc he hi hu ia id it ja ko la lt ml mr ms nb nl oc pl pt_BR pt ro ru sl sq sr sv ta te th tr uk vi zh_CH zh_CN zh_TW [01:17] those missing in quickshot are: af en_AU en_GB tr [01:18] Afrikaans (af) and Turkish (tr) being the two really new ones. [01:31] where is humphreybc ? [01:32] daker: he's on holiday this weekend. he will be back tomorrow. [01:32] oh [01:33] af and tr have been added. [01:33] Red_HamsterX: Thanks. I'm trying to upload things now, but my Internet connection keeps going up and down. [01:33] Driving my nuts. [01:34] For Quickshot, our current plan is to have only one en branch, since we observed only one or two differences affecting labels not actively being described. [01:35] (This probbly holds true for pt, too) [01:35] Okay. [01:35] The pt and pt_BR may be a different story, though. I seem to recall that are some not inconsiderable differences. I don't know what I'm talking about, though. :-) [01:35] (But I don't know how similar Brazilian is to European) [01:36] In English, it's just 'ue's and 'our's. [01:36] And some s/z/s. [01:37] "The differences between Portuguese dialects are mostly in phonology, in the frequency of usage of certain grammatical forms, and especially in the distance between the formal and informal levels of speech. Lexical differences are numerous but largely confined to "peripheral" words such as plants, animals, and other local items, with little impact in the core lexicon. Dialectal deviations from the official grammar are relatively few. [01:37] As a consequence, all Portuguese dialects are mutually intelligible; although for some of the most extremely divergent pairs the phonological changes may make it difficult for speakers to understand rapid speech." [01:37] from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_dialects [01:38] sounds like one pt may be okay. we can add another if the translators wish. makes no difference to me. [01:38] If we lack a full pt, we can just backport BR. [01:38] I guess my take on all that is that if someone wants to do the work of taking screenshots and translating for their dialect, I'm okay with it. [01:38] And fix it for rev 2. [01:38] http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/revision/2 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual -r 2 [01:39] It generally doesn't affect my typography stuff (that I know of). [01:49] I'm rebranching because my local copy is all mucked up. I didn't pull before I copied over the new translations and there were translations in the branch that conflicted. [01:50] Seems easier to just download a fresh copy and do it again. :) [01:54] Red_HamsterX, how to redefine an already defined constant ? [01:56] in php :) [01:58] If it's a constant, shouldn't it by definition not be changed? :) [01:59] godbyk, http://www.php.net/manual/en/function.runkit-constant-redefine.php [02:01] Seems like it's not constant if you can change it. Just a difficult-to-modify variable. [02:01] Agreed. [02:02] yes :) [02:02] Why do you need to mess with what sshould never be changed, daker? [02:02] There are other ways of defining constants or use within your own scripts. [02:02] for use* [02:02] oki [02:04] constant are easy to use than variable [02:05] Can you give us more details (an example, perhaps) of what you're trying to do? [02:05] define('TEST','awesome'); [02:05] $test='awesome'; [02:06] function test_func() [02:06] { [02:06] global $test; [02:06] echo $test; [02:06] echo TEST; [02:06] } [02:06] see [02:07] every time i want to use $test i have to set it as global [02:07] I'd pass it into the function as an argument, then. [02:07] $test = 'awesome'; [02:07] function test_func($test) { [02:07] echo $test; [02:07] } [02:08] you only need to use global $test if you want to modify $test, right? [02:08] greeaaat hhhhhhhhhhh [02:08] (It's been a while since I've used php, so I could be completely wrong on all of this. :-)) [02:09] other thing [02:09] define('TEST','awesome'); [02:09] $test='awesome'; [02:10] include('test.php'); [02:10] / test.php [02:10] echo $test; [02:10] echo TEST; [02:10] is that right ? [02:12] that's the / test.php line supposed to be? [02:12] that irc how delete the other / its comment // test.php [02:12] oh! gotcha. [02:13] well, that code would work, I think. Though I'm still not sure what you're trying to do. :) [02:13] just to check if my code is correct [02:15] i am asking stupid questions [02:15] :D [02:16] okay. :) [02:19] * daker is downloading Iron Man 2 [02:20] Red_HamsterX, have you read i suggest for the server [02:29] Hey, daker, if you're bored, you could pretty up http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/. [02:29] I just use an old site template you made and drop in an html table that gets regenerated each time I run a script. [02:30] I gave the table cells styles, so we can make them look nice with css. [02:30] oki [02:30] unfortunately, my css stuff appears to be ignored at the moment. (haven't looked into it at all yet.) [02:30] if you want the table code to be different, just let me know how you want it to be and I'll adjust my script. [02:30] kk [02:30] (basically, the table is pulled in with an include('build-results.html'); line. [02:31] can you pull your code to the branch ? [02:31] "/website/builds" [02:31] it might be neat to have some ajaxy stuff where you could click on the number-of-errors cell and it'll show you the error messages. (similarly for warnings) [02:32] oki [02:34] daker: okay, I just pushed the code. [02:51] godbyk, the error messages & the warnings are located where ? [02:51] they're just in the .log files. [02:51] I'll have to do a little work to parse them out. [02:55] i try to the arabic version of the manual [02:57] just to inform you that i am arabic [02:57] cool [02:57] I still need to fix the LTR layout. [02:57] yeah [03:07] godbyk, you are doing a good job man [03:10] ? [03:12] i said your are doing a good job [03:12] :) [03:15] thanks [03:32] hi. is there a list of screenshots that are still needed for the ubuntu-manual? [03:33] http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/ kermiac [03:33] ty daker :) [03:34] try to complete some of them like the "de" still need 4 screenshots [03:35] the "ja" too [03:35] is there any way to see one (like en) that have already been done so I can ensure they are consistant? [03:35] http://screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org/data/ [03:36] thanks again daker :) [03:36] no problem [03:37] * daker Iron Man 2 => 100% ohohohoo [03:53] godbyk, i'll prepare something very good for the statistics [03:53] daker: cool, thanks! [04:00] now i'll go to bed :) [04:00] good night [04:00] g'night, daker [05:21] * IlyaHaykinson doing a good deed and translating the manual's web site into Esperanto [05:21] * IlyaHaykinson does not really know Esperanto well enough to translate anything beyond single words or noun phrases [05:24] Saluton IlyaHaykinson. [05:25] saluton, donri [05:41] crap, not having much luck in Esperanto. Having even less luck in Russian: I know the language well, but don't know _any_ technical terms. [05:42] and it'd suck to pick the wrong word for "installing" or "download" [05:42] Try a dictionary? [05:43] sure, quite possible. but traditional dictionaries don't cover technical jargon very well. [05:43] i think i'll just leave it to the locals. [05:43] it's fascinating just how little reading proficiency correlates with technical writing proficiency [05:44] http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/install#Translations etc :) [05:45] nod. i'm not disputing that i could do it. just that i _should_, given that i would have to research every word, nearly [05:45] Heh. [05:45] Maybe someone maintains a Ubuntu specific dictionary for translators. The Swedish community does that. [05:45] i think they do, actually. [05:46] but i noticed it mainly has ubuntuisms [05:46] Nothing like http://www.ubuntu-se.org/wiki/Ordlista_f%C3%B6r_%C3%B6vers%C3%A4ttare ? [05:47] my language skills predate common computer usage (i left the country as a kid in the late 80s), so even things like "download" or proper ways of describing "click" are things i'd have to look up [05:47] Ok. :) [05:48] but, sure, they have a list: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuRussianTranslators/Dictionary [05:49] i guess if the translation falls behind, i could help out. [08:05] should I translate "\eg", or it's some kind of command? [08:09] The output of a command is any text it displays on the next line after typing a command and pressing enter, \eg, if you type \commandlineapp{pwd} into a terminal and press \keystroke{Enter}, the directory name it displays on the next line is the output. [10:11] hello all [10:12] hi everyone, i'm back [10:12] hi! [10:12] hello ben [10:13] godbyk, godbyk-android: what's the state regarding title page translations? [10:14] hiya thorwil and ubuntujenkins [10:14] how are we going? [10:15] quickshot has a few more bugs but we are holding up. [10:16] okay [10:16] translation and screenshot status? [10:16] i see many screenshots have been taken already [10:16] so i made the call for help post on my blog short, but linked to humphreybc's. stats claim 13347 views [10:16] translations are a bit slow [10:16] thorwil: neat. I've got 958 views on my post I believe, not that many. [10:16] I didn't see it on the planet? [10:17] I think screenshots are somewhat easier than the translations, hence they are being done quicker === \vish is now known as vish [10:17] I saw thorwil's post on the planet [10:17] oh good [10:18] we need to get more posts on the planet *cough*popey*cough* [10:18] *cough*pleia2*cough* [10:23] humphreybc, we have a quickshot ideas etherpad for the next cycle here: http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/f0VIdaLXWZ [10:24] wow, impressive [10:24] you guys are going to be busy [10:26] feel free to add stuff [10:27] i see support for other projects is there, that's great [10:27] I definitely want this to be available for other documentation projects to use [10:31] im back! [10:35] anyone know ho i can see the revisons for a specific file? [10:38] for bzr? [10:40] yes [10:44] ubuntujenkins: try: bzr diff filename [10:44] or: bzr log filename [10:45] ubuntujenkins: diff shows you actual changes and log shows you a list of revisions [10:46] ubuntujenkins: for a specific revision go: bzr log -r500 filename [10:46] diff only shows the difference between your file and the one in bzr, I have worked out whats wrong but am not sure when it got changed [10:48] someone has been messing with the file permisson stuff in quickshot [10:48] ubuntujenkins: on noes! thats not good [10:49] no its not i am haveing to update the releases because of it [10:49] I am glad i understand ppas now [10:49] darn thats a pain [10:49] lol [10:50] the first time i did a ppa it took me 6+ hours, its a 10 min job if that now [10:50] humphreybc: have you had any issues with rhythmbox muting when you try to play a song in it in lucid? [10:50] ubuntujenkins: wow! [10:51] not recently, i've been on holiday away from my computer since thursday [10:51] nisshh, I haven't had any rhythmbox issues in lucid [10:52] ubuntujenkins: really, must just be me then, but when i first try to play a song rhythmbox mutes itself locally until i unmute it, its REALLy annoying [10:53] ubuntujenkins, maybe you want bzr annotate [10:53] actually nisshh I had that once about a month ago but is has gone away [10:54] ubuntujenkins: darn it! lol, how come i always get the bugs! [10:54] donri, that looks more like what i need thanks [10:55] nisshh, may be its your .config or .gnome2 etc files? [10:55] ubuntujenkins: good point, ill check after i reboot, brb! [10:58] back now [10:59] ubuntujenkins: meh, rhythmbox bug is gone! [10:59] strange nisshh [11:00] ubuntujenkins: yea i think it was my onboard audio doing something strange [11:00] not rhythmbox [11:01] * ubuntujenkins they have changed the login screen AGAIN [11:02] lol, i saw that [11:03] in last weekends update [11:03] I am not a fan of the orange logo [11:04] it looked better black [11:04] its obvious they havent quite got rid of brown/orange [11:05] its way to bright a color for a logo too! [11:05] it looks so out of place on the login screen [11:05] at least I hadn't got around to faking the new one for the manual [11:06] hehe [11:06] the button change it through so i can now do a new release of the quickshot cd [11:17] oh crap, i just noticed the rearranged window buttons, forgot they were getting changes [11:17] they are worse than before now [11:17] have to get used to them AGAIN! [11:18] I like them that way takes some getting use to but its all right. I changed them my self as soon as the announcement was out. [11:22] hehe yea [11:25] Yea is nice. This way they wont move around depending on what buttons are present. [11:29] godbyk ping [11:30] hi humphreybc-cell [11:30] Hi humphreybc [11:30] lol [11:30] how's it going? [11:31] Not too bad thanks [11:31] insanity from too much work and not enough sleep? [11:31] heh [11:31] i've actually had a great amount of sleep [11:31] been on holiday for three days [11:32] hehe, count me out of the group who has had alot of sleep [11:32] lol [11:32] iv had "maybe" 12 hours sleep since last friday [11:32] been taking lots of screenshots? :P [11:32] humphreybc: no, i havent [11:33] tsk tsk [11:33] hehe [11:33] i havent had comp access for 4 days lol [11:33] went fishing thismorning [11:33] i suppose that's okay then [11:33] hehe [11:34] caught a nice 1kg skippy [11:35] now im doing a bricklaying job for a mate then im off down south for a week and a half! far out dude! [11:36] lol nisshh such an aussie [11:37] hehe [11:37] busy as hell right now [11:38] i see the manual is shaping up really nicely now [11:38] is it? [11:38] translations are a bit slow [11:39] yea [11:39] a guy actually asked on the mailing list when translations end!? [11:40] around RC [11:40] yea [11:40] also i think the bzr section on our wiki page needs redoing [11:41] alot of people are getting confused by it [11:41] lol yeah [11:41] i might take that on [11:41] sure [11:41] make it as simple as possible [11:41] yep [11:41] you should write a script they can download [11:41] just a simple bash script [11:42] to download the latest revision? [11:42] hi @all [11:42] well just to run stuff like bzr branch lp:ubuntu-manual [11:42] and install and configure bzr? [11:42] maybe it could install bzr, then set up bzr whoami [11:42] yea [11:42] (and it prompts for them to enter their name and email) [11:42] yea [11:42] then downloads our branch, again, it could either prompt to enter in a location to download it to or just download to where the script is [11:42] that's all it'd need to do [11:43] although im not adept at bash scripting yet [11:43] hey Daker [11:43] ill do some research [11:43] it's pretty easy [11:43] yea [11:43] i can help to do that humphreybc [11:43] i do python so bash isnt hard [11:43] daker, could you do me a favour please and remove the Bug and Audio Book navigation entries from the website? [11:43] nisshh: well do it in python then :) [11:44] Daker, we're not using the bug thing anymore with the spreadsheet form until we can set it up with an API for launchpad, and the audio book thing was just an april fools [11:45] hhhhhhhhhhhh [11:45] http://ubuntu-manual.org/ [11:45] humphreybc: hmmmm, nah i have no idea how to download a bzr branch with python [11:45] kk [11:45] yeah, the main site daker [11:45] humphreybc: lol, i was wondering about that lol [11:45] so we just want to remove those two pages from the nav bar [11:45] kk [11:45] be back [11:46] so it should just be About Get Involved Quickshot Contributors [11:46] humphreybc: i might be able to use my bros netbook while im away later this week and next week, since he has crunchbang on it [11:47] okay [11:47] humphreybc: though i might have to steal me some wifi [11:48] haha [11:48] humphreybc: where should i put this bash script for bzr? [11:48] just store it locally for now till you've got it working [11:49] yep, i mean after i finish it [11:49] then you can stick it in the branch where others can help, then we'll host it on the server [11:49] ah ok [11:49] alright ill get on that later tonight [11:50] brb dinner time [11:50] * humphreybc is getting frustrated. Slow internet, docky crashing, gwibber using 100% CPU [12:08] * ubuntujenkins is frustrated the live cd build failed brb [12:15] is it possible to download the manual in my language? [12:15] what is your language Ddorda ? [12:16] daker: Hebrew [12:16] daker: Im translating it, and want to see how it looks now [12:16] http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/ [12:16] daker: thanks a lot :D [12:17] enjoy it [12:18] daker: will do my best :P [12:19] cool [12:28] daker: seems like there are some bugs.. [12:28] Ddorda, a lot of bugs, i thought :D [12:29] hebrew is a rtl language [12:29] yea [12:29] so godbyk still need to fix the RTL layout. [13:18] * ubuntujenkins starts a live cd customisation form scratch [13:18] godbyk: ping [13:18] awesome! how do you do that? [13:19] Well its fairly easy the wiki stuff on it is useful. fitting 50 language packs on it is the hard part. We ripped out allot of stuff [13:20] updating an old disk can cause problems though, hence why I am starting from scratch [13:20] I'm interested in maintaining a single flash drive that's capable of booting to and installing a number of Ubuntu versions. Is this possible? [13:22] I haven't tried it but i also want to do that. The live cds that come with linux format boot into different versions of linux from the same disk, so it is possible. [13:23] you would have to do some form of loading screen to choose each one. I haven't got a linux format disk as they are all at uni [13:31] yes, it must be possible ... but I'm still such a novice with these things that reading Web tutorials is difficult [13:32] I'd also like the USB drive to be updatable every time a new release hits ... don't want to reformat the drive each time and install everything all over again. [13:34] the automatic updating would be hard, do you want to add custom packages to the disk? [13:35] not necessarily ... I'd just want a flash drive that can boot and install a number of default LiveCD images [13:36] and the flash drive wouldn't need to automatically update, really ... it would just need to be able to allow ME to add another LiveCD imagine to its litany every six months or so [13:36] I will have a google and see what comes up [13:39] definitely let me know if you find anything ... heading out for a bit [13:39] ok i will do [14:19] ubuntujenkins: you can remove the sound stuff, or things that wont be seen [14:19] ubuntujenkins: or maybe you can make a DVD and not a CD [14:20] Ddorda: i have removed allot of stuff that will not been seen, but i can't take out sound as rhythambox needs it. i have made it a cd last time. [14:21] thanks for the suggestions [14:22] ubuntujenkins: well, just trying to help :P [14:22] help is always welcome :D [14:28] ubuntujenkins: there's no need for all of the installation slides in the slideshow, right? [14:28] no just the first one Ddorda [14:28] you can remove them all but the first one thank :) [14:28] or you already did? :P [14:29] Ddorda: and the screenshot of the "restart now" window [14:30] I haven't looked but I will remove them, what language is it? [14:40] * ubuntujenkins starts the live cd build [16:19] Red_HamsterX: are you busy? [17:28] ok um... idk but do you guys need screenshots of kubuntu for the manual? [17:29] im around everyday in #kubuntu-devel and #kubuntu... so just leave me a memoserv or ping me in one of those channels and we will have a chat :) [17:34] << Installing quickshot ;) >> [17:37] brb [18:46] semioticrobotic: This was the simplest set of instructions to make a multiboot live cd http://psychoticspoon.blogspot.com/2009/01/booting-multiple-livecds-from-single.html the only catch is you need a i368 computer [18:50] ubuntujenkins: Great! Thanks. I'll give it a read. [18:51] there were plenty of other ways of doing it some involved scripts, but i don't like using scripts if i don't know where they came from [18:52] I agree [18:52] and this does look very straightforward [18:52] terminal commands so simple even I can handle them [18:53] I haven't had a go but it does look simple [18:54] godbyk: ping [18:55] indeed [19:18] * ubuntujenkins why do xorg-docs-core have to be installed for xorg to work .... [19:19] * ubuntujenkins still needs to find room on the live cd someone made the language packs bigger [20:02] ubuntujenkins: pong [20:03] hello godbyk the live cd doesn't fit as the language packs are too big can you look at http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/SOMETHING and see if we can remove anything else? [20:04] I have even got rid of some sound stuff and still kept rhythambox [20:04] nice. [20:04] how much space do we need? [20:04] 30mb when the cd is compressed [20:05] most of the things I'm seeing we don't need except that other apps depend on them (even though we're not using those features). [20:06] liks gvfs-fuse. we don't need it, but I'm sure nautilus or someone will balk if we try to remove it. [20:06] thats the trouble all the silly dependacies [20:06] what's whiptail? [20:06] can we kill friendly-recovery? [20:06] Displays user-friendly dialog boxes from shell scripts [20:07] gvfs=fuse can go [20:07] I thought zenity was for that. [20:07] cpp is still there. can't we kill that? [20:07] xorg-docs-core sounds like it might just be documentation [20:08] we can kill command-not-found [20:10] xorg docs can't go xorg depends on it [20:11] bah! [20:12] half tempted to strip things out of the depends line of the deb control files. :-P [20:12] irqbalance? [20:12] are we showing off any mono-based apps? [20:13] Ddorda: The \eg command just expands to "e.g.". So you can remove that command and replace it with a translation if you need to. Or if you want, you can tell me how "e.g." appears in your language and I can translate the command itself so you don't have to mess with it. [20:13] yep tomboy and f-spot [20:14] godbyk: I would love if you do [20:14] thorwil: I haven't got back to the title pages yet. I didn't know if you wanted to try a couple translations by hand using inkscape (so we could see if it can handle the opentype language features we'd need). [20:14] godbyk: another thing, have a look at the Hebrew version, its all messy [20:15] ubuntujenkins: rats! 'cause that'd save us quite a bit of space, I think. [20:16] Ddorda: yeah, I need to fix the layout for LTR languages. [20:16]