[02:49] <svaksha> akgraner: nope, its stuck due to the attachments. most lists dont allow attachments so could you upload the files elsewhere and link them instead
[02:50] <nigelb> svaksha, aha.. we had a big discussion on whether akgraner ever sent the mail or not :D
[02:51] <svaksha> nigelb: ah...doubting thomas :)
[02:51] <nigelb> well... it was fun... akgraner was adamant that she sent it and me and czajkowski were adamant that we didn't get it
[02:52] <svaksha> heh
[02:53] <nigelb> even text attachments aren't allowed?
[02:53] <akgraner> svaksha, *sigh* I send attachments to other mailing lists
[02:53] <svaksha> there is a size limit
[02:53] <akgraner> but whatever I'll put them on my server
[02:53] <akgraner> svaksha, you can override the size limit as well
[02:53] <svaksha> akgraner: i know but in the past  folks have complained
[02:54]  * svaksha tries her best to balance all kinds of folks
[02:54] <svaksha> akgraner: thanks :)
[02:54] <akgraner> or at least I do on other mailing list I moderate but no worries - just delete that one - but can you add me as admin pls
[02:55] <akgraner> you can always pull the permission when I am not the leader :-)
[02:56] <svaksha> akgraner: admin where? on this list? if its to approve attachments to the list , i dont think its a good idea
[02:56] <svaksha> akgraner: addin and removing admins as per the changing leadership will also not work. its not done on any ubuntu list i know of
[02:56] <akgraner> no I am tired of the stuff I send being held up - I need people to open the pdfs as people we will be sending those too will need to be able to open them as well
[02:57] <akgraner> so I thought it was a good test
[02:57] <akgraner> but whatever
[02:57] <svaksha> akgraner: as i said, put them on the wiki or on your server and link them
[02:57] <svaksha> in your mail
[02:57] <akgraner> I know that - whatever - I'll fix it... but as the leader I should have access
[02:58] <akgraner> just give me the rules you all apply and I'll make sure I go by those guidelines for this list
[02:58] <svaksha> akgraner: that is a new rule i'm hearing :)
[02:58] <akgraner> no biggie
[02:58] <akgraner> I moderate the NC list and UWN what is the issue with this list
[02:59] <svaksha> akgraner: leadership is not about having control, imho
[02:59] <akgraner> svaksha, no it's not but you were the leader and had access
[02:59] <svaksha> and since you want it to be able to approve attachments, i dont think its a good idea
[02:59] <akgraner> so...
[03:00] <akgraner> whatever I don't have time to hash this out right now
[03:00] <svaksha> that has annoyed folks in the past and i've been admining various lists across the spectrum of projects and that behaviour(allowing bulk files) is not approved.. hopw that clears
[03:01] <akgraner> no worries what other leaders of projects or teams don't have access
[03:01] <svaksha> akgraner: i was never the leader (not even self-appointed) and i never had this channel ops (if that is what you mean)
[03:01] <akgraner> svaksha, ok fine whatever - I'll sort this out later... I was just asking not wanting to argue
[03:02] <svaksha> akgraner: i dont mean to be harsh, but the "leader" thing is over-rated anyway in floss :)
[03:02] <svaksha> in floss its usually team, and collaboration
[03:02] <svaksha> without the team backing you (impersonal) it never works
[03:02] <svaksha> ;)
[03:02] <svaksha> akgraner: no problem , will clarify anytime
[03:09] <pleia2> akgraner: if you need a place to host the files, please feel free to give me a link and I'll toss them up on the website
[03:09] <pleia2> you probably should have access to everything so you can do your job, so if you want we can submit a ticket to get added to the website I can help with that and I'll show you what to do
[03:13] <pleia2> svaksha: if you could help us out here it'd be great, mails still wait in the queue for quite some time and you're the only one on IRC we can talk to :)
[03:13] <akgraner> pleia2, thanks!
[03:13] <svaksha> fwiw, i had added akgraner as the admin on LP in Jan, before her election (i think). However approving bulk attachments to all list members is annoying to a lot of people and changing list admins as per cycles is not something that happens in any linux community, let alone on any ubuntu list that i know of. Correct me if i am wrong please.
[03:14] <svaksha> pleia2: if you are sub'd to the list the mails are not held in the queue
[03:14] <akgraner> I won't break whatever rules this follows - just tell me what they are
[03:15] <pleia2> svaksha: it would have helped us know today why her email was held, if you need more volunteers there are always people around
[03:15] <akgraner> svaksha, why can't we do what works for our team...
[03:15] <svaksha> i have approved her mails with attachments thinking its a one-off case but if its a regular thing as an admin i would not approve bulk mails with attachments. please upload them somewhere so folks interested can d'load as per wish
[03:15] <pleia2> of course, I expect every admin to follow the rules, I think it's unfair to assume that akgraner wouldn't
[03:15] <pleia2> we just need to know what the rules/policies are :)
[03:16] <svaksha> pleia2: we dont need more list admins.
[03:16] <svaksha> pleia2: its standard linux policy to not put large files in mailing lists :) you'd know that ;)
[03:17] <svaksha> pleia2: nobody is making an assumption. which is why i am explaining and having this long convo early morning when i should be working ;)
[03:17] <pleia2> mailing list admins should also be briefed on it, just because I know it doesn't mean we should assume everyone does (especially list admins)
[03:17] <svaksha> pleia2: they (on uw list) are aware of it
[03:17] <pleia2> svaksha: I don't understand why you are so unwilling to share the duties of list admin, even with the project leader
[03:17] <akgraner> it's not about policy it's about communicating with the team
[03:18] <pleia2> what do we need to do to get more people admining the list so things don't sit in the queue for a day?
[03:18] <svaksha> pleia2: please dont assume or accuse me. its just not helping
[03:18] <pleia2> as the project leader, akgraner asked for access, you refused, I am assuming nothing
[03:18] <akgraner> I am doing what I can to make sure everyone on every list gets all information that is being discussed
[03:19] <svaksha> to summarize, right now i dont get the flow of the dicussion ...it started with "approve the attachments", when explained that that is not how *any* linux list works, you accuse me of not giving admin privs. wow, talk of logical fallacies.
[03:20] <svaksha> akgraner: please upload it on your server or on the wiki.
[03:20] <akgraner> how do you upload a pdf to a wiki
[03:20] <pleia2> akgraner: click on attachments
[03:20] <svaksha> not approving bulk atachments to list members is standard policy on almost ALL linux lists.
[03:21] <akgraner> some as image then
[03:21] <pleia2> akgraner: yep
[03:21] <akgraner> same I mean
[03:30] <IdleOne> For what it is worth. I don't understand all the logistics of admining a ML so I won't bother commenting on that but I know that when it came time to decide if this team wanted/needed a Leader it was put to a vote. We the team members voted on who we felt was best suited and in that respect I don't think that akgraner asking for admin rights on the team ML is asking to much. Again if it poses a problem to add admins to the ML I guess
[03:30] <IdleOne> that is something to figure out.
[03:30] <akgraner> svaksha, so I am adding mailing list admin to the meetings this month: how do people become admins, terms for admins, and should leader(s) have access, and what are the rules for the mailing list and process for modifying rules around what makes the list or not
[03:31] <pleia2> IdleOne: the leader was an appointment this time, we're doing an election during the next cycle
[03:31] <svaksha> akgraner: i think you are confusing two separate issues. Fwiw, i added two admins just last June.
[03:31] <pleia2> but there was community involvement
[03:31] <IdleOne> pleia2: yeah, true I forgot about that part
[03:31] <IdleOne> it was an appointment
[03:32] <IdleOne> and BTW great choice whoever made it :)
[03:32] <akgraner> :-) not worried - I'm going to add it and we as a team can decide on all that and there will be no more confusion on the subject
[03:32] <akgraner> no worries I meant
[03:32] <akgraner> *sigh* typing fail
[03:32] <pleia2> thanks, akgraner
[03:32] <svaksha> as for the reasoning behind it (approving attachments) it does not work like that on any list . so please do bring it up on the list and i will explain it there too.
[03:33] <akgraner> we on the NC LoCo team send attachments through depending on who sends them
[03:33] <svaksha> akgraner: there is no confusion but i certainly dont get the jump from "you didnt approve attachments to the list" to "i as a leader didnt get admin rights"
[03:33] <IdleOne> pleia2: I think what I was trying to say is that akgraner is imho a good team lead and she seems to me always take into consideration the teams needs and wants. I never seen anything from her that would make me think she was in this for "power"
[03:33]  * svaksha is feeling that things are being twisted here
[03:33] <akgraner> I didn't want to break rules
[03:33] <akgraner> I want to follow rules
[03:34] <akgraner> I know other list allow attachments
[03:34] <pleia2> IdleOne: *nod*
[03:34] <svaksha> akgraner: i get that and i thin i explained it multiple times today, but i think an issue is being purposely made out
[03:34] <akgraner> but no worries really...
[03:34] <svaksha> when there is none
[03:34] <svaksha> *think
[03:35] <akgraner> not making an issue
[03:35] <akgraner> apparently I was confused about the mailing list
[03:35] <svaksha> akgraner: thanks if you are not. if not, why are you adding it to the agenda?
[03:35] <akgraner> and if I am confused others may be especially new people so we need to make sure that is cleared up
[03:35] <akgraner> that's all
[03:36] <svaksha> akgraner: fwiw, nobody has had a problem or confusion thusfar
[03:36] <akgraner> for the future since elections will be in June and all - so no one else has any confusion going forwarf
[03:36] <akgraner> forward
[03:36] <svaksha> so i am a bit dissapointed that words are being misconstrued purposely
[03:37] <svaksha> regarding the mlist admins
[03:37] <svaksha> that is not helping at all
[03:38] <akgraner> well I think 3 more admins whether they are me or not will be good... and I'll add it to the meeting notes  - then the team can vote on that as well... not biggie - I don't have to be an admin really
[03:38] <akgraner> no worries
[03:38] <akgraner> :-)
[03:38] <akgraner> but I don't want people saying you didn't send an email anymore
[03:38] <svaksha> akgraner: even if you go ahead and add the same, please note that we cannot have admins changing as per leaderships and certainly not because they want to approve attachments.
[03:39] <svaksha> that is not done on any ubuntu or linux list that i know of
[03:39] <IdleOne> Why can't the admins be added/removed per leadership?
[03:39] <akgraner> we can and should do what works for the team
[03:39] <akgraner> not b/c it's *always* been done that way
[03:40] <svaksha> IdleOne: can you clarify why that is suddenly  requirement? list admining is no equal to managing a project.
[03:40] <akgraner> whatever I don't care about attachments
[03:40] <svaksha> in what way does control over a project or being a leader tie in with list adminship?
[03:40] <IdleOne> svaksha: I am not saying it is a requirement. Just want to know why the team lead can't also be a ML admin?
[03:40] <svaksha> please list out thattoo
[03:41] <akgraner> svaksha, what is the harm?
[03:41] <IdleOne> and why can't they be added acording to leadership changes
[03:41] <akgraner> that is the bigger question in my book
[03:41] <IdleOne> according*
[03:41] <svaksha> fwiw,  the voting thing is pretty skewed if you consider the number of people on the lists, irc, forums, LP, etc. we use LP is a different matter
[03:41] <akgraner> I care about the process - so if other people want to become an admin what is the process
[03:42] <akgraner> right you you weld absolute power it seems
[03:42] <svaksha> IdleOne: because list admining is not a 6-month work (or whatever) it takes a longer commitment
[03:42] <svaksha> akgraner: can you please stop the accusations
[03:42] <akgraner> svaksha, I am not accusing
[03:42] <svaksha> it seems like this is all about power and not really about the team
[03:42] <akgraner> I am just wanting to define the process
[03:43] <svaksha> all about control now
[03:43] <akgraner> it is about the team
[03:43] <IdleOne> ok, well that poses another question then. who is to say akgraner or whoever the team lead is isn't ready to give that long term commitment
[03:43] <akgraner> I don't give a flip about control - I care about the team and communicating to the team
[03:43] <svaksha> akgraner: the process is existing. here it seems like "i the leader dont have control over UW completely" hence i m not getting support. logical fallacy
[03:43] <pleia2> svaksha: it is a problem when mails (espcially from the team leader) are held up in the queue, this has been a problem for a long time, we're just trying to figure out how this can be addressed
[03:43] <IdleOne> svaksha: well since you brought up the power. YES it sure does seem like it now
[03:44] <akgraner> what??
[03:44] <IdleOne> svaksha: I don't see what the big deal is with adding and removing admins every six months or whatever the time is
[03:45] <pleia2> even if we don't get this sorted this cycle, I don't think it's unreasonable for a team leader to ask for access on our main medium of official communication for the project
[03:45] <IdleOne> anyway, I apologize if I started something where there was nothing. I don't want to create division here
[03:46] <svaksha> IdleOne: do you see that on any ubuntu list. and regarding mails being heldup, i think i explained it a zillion times. please dont send attachments daily. its annoying to list members
[03:46] <IdleOne> Who complained?
[03:46] <akgraner> Ok time out - I don't want this to turn into ganging up on anyone - I appreciate what svaksha has to say about the subject as she was been moderating lists for a while  - lets just add to the agenda and talk about it the meetings and on the mailing list  - whatever the team decides is fine really
[03:47] <pleia2> akgraner: sounds good, thanks :)
[03:47] <IdleOne> ok. dropping it
[03:47] <svaksha> akgraner: it sure feels like i am the one being ambushed, despite taking the time to explain things.
[03:47] <akgraner> svaksha, not meaning to be - so well deal with this in meetings later  :-)  that's all
[03:48] <svaksha> akgraner: please put this up on the list and i will say the same thing there
[03:48] <akgraner> I really gotta run now - svaksha thanks for voicing your opinion and objections - really catch you all laters
[03:48] <IdleOne> later
[03:48] <svaksha> akgraner: i mean if you are putting it up in the meetings, put this item separeate on the list
[03:49] <svaksha> there is no confusion, but since people are making an issue out of nothing, i will clarify it on the list
[03:52] <IdleOne> svaksha: the confusion (to me) is that you are stating the rules and seem unwilling to discuss why they are so. Ubuntu Women is not like other Ubuntu projects and it is my opinion that it does not matter what other FOSS projects do with their mailing list. This mailing list seems to have found a need for allowing attachments and if the team lead is willing to take on the responsibility of managing that I think that person would be bes
[03:52] <IdleOne> t suited for the job.
[03:54] <nigelb> IdleOne, seriously..attachments irritate.. especially when you've set up pop3
[03:54] <nigelb> it clogs my mailbox up for days when its too big...
[03:54] <svaksha> IdleOne: i find your tone accusing (me based on your assumption) and against the COC. how did you jump to that conclusion? Regarding UW team and how the mailing list functions, its not about team managing a list. Attachments are annoying. period
[03:55] <IdleOne> nigelb: I agree but in special cases where it is deemed a valid attachment I see no problem with it.
[03:55] <pleia2> this isn't really going anywhere right now, we should pick this up on list and at the meeting
[03:55] <nigelb> IdleOne, well, valid or invalid...if its too big its going to irritate people who set up pop3 access (like me)
[03:55] <IdleOne> and if a post to the ML gets held back for a day and the person who was meant to send it gets accused of not having done her job. that is more annoying
[03:55] <nigelb> IdleOne, I generally end up deleting mails with attachments
[03:55] <svaksha> IdleOne: you are confusing things and using logical fallacies, so please watch your tone and dont accuse people. not helping .
[03:56] <svaksha> IdleOne: nobody accused akgraner of not doing her job
[03:56] <IdleOne> svaksha: don't assume to speak to me like you are someone special with some sort of power over me or this team
[03:56] <IdleOne> I don't like your tone and YOU seem to not want to give up power over the ML
[03:56] <svaksha> IdleOne: i didnt, but you accused me of stating rules
[03:56] <nigelb> whoa... IdleOne, svaksha  --- time out!
[03:57] <IdleOne> final. period. done. and I don't want to discuss this further with you!
[03:57] <svaksha> that was your assumption, instead of a logical reasoning
[03:57] <IdleOne> now I will stop
[05:19] <MarkDude> I dont have patience for some things.
[05:24] <elky> MarkDude, still, don't trigger ops as first call for something that isn't a matter of flooding. Ask for the nick to be changed first.
[05:25] <MarkDude> My bad. Im working on the not feeding the trolls thing.
[05:25] <MarkDude> I was thinking the name did not translate out of US. I will do that next time tho elky :)
[05:26] <elky> Vagisil does indeed exist outside the US.
[05:27] <MarkDude> elky, if I have learned one thing in UW, it is to not make assumptions.
[05:29] <elky> Fair enough, but whether or not it translates is irrelavent to whether you said "please change your nick to something sensible" before calling ops doesn't require an assumption.
[05:30] <MarkDude> Yes. I was wrong in how I over reacted, I am sorry. My intent does not change the fact I should have just directly said something. I WILL do that the next time a similar issue happens.
[05:31] <elky> Thanks :)
[05:33] <MarkDude> Im learnin'
[05:33] <elky> :)
[05:33] <elky> Blegh, why won't he make a fatal slip up so i really can go get food :(
[05:34] <nigelb> elky, lol
[05:34] <maco> you can get food when i get back from the washing machine, k?
[05:34] <MarkDude> & I really appreciate you explaining  to me patiently. Its easier to learn if I am not guessing.
[05:34] <MarkDude> Hello nigelb
[05:34] <nigelb> hey there MarkDude :)
[05:35] <nigelb> I <3 mondays
[05:35]  * svaksha loves fridays :0
[05:35] <svaksha> :)
[05:36] <nigelb> I'm off from work today... mostly happens only on mondays
[05:36] <MarkDude> Thats a good thing
[05:37] <nigelb> so I have a whole day and 5 bugs to fix
[05:37] <elky> MarkDude, also, if you don't feel like engaging, pinging ops here will draw our attention without stirring crap in the other channel
[05:39] <MarkDude> lol , that would be subtlety , I *really* need to work on that.
[05:39] <MarkDude> I might as well have used an airhorn
[05:39] <nigelb> MarkDude, there is this thing on IRC called /msg :D
[05:40] <MarkDude> lol
[05:40] <MarkDude> PMs tend to work also
[05:40] <nigelb> yeah...
[05:40] <nigelb> alternatingly, you could pop by ubuntu-ops and ask for help
[05:41] <MarkDude> I think the term I heard for what I did is: trying to kill a fly with a sledgehammer
[05:41] <MarkDude> Ops also works.
[05:42] <MarkDude> what kind of bugs are on your todo list nigelb ?
[05:42] <nigelb> MarkDude, one kde, one metacity, one vim, one cheese, and one security bug
[05:43] <nigelb> now that sounds like a shopping list
[05:44] <MarkDude> cross-section
[05:44] <nigelb> oh yeah, one vlc bug
[05:44] <nigelb> forgot that one
[05:44] <nigelb> thats been assigned to me for weeks
[05:45] <MarkDude> Well , its VLC , it always has bugs. Its easy to forget
[05:45] <MarkDude> Uh, I like & use VLC.
[05:45] <nigelb> it was a simple enough bug to start with.. add spanish translation to menu
[05:45] <nigelb> but there was another xulrunner bug blocking this one
[05:46] <MarkDude> how old is the xulrunner?
[05:46] <MarkDude> the bug?
[05:47] <nigelb> its not per se a bug
[05:47] <nigelb> gcc became more stricter
[05:53] <elky> maco, you'll be around for a while?
[05:53] <maco> elky: yes
[05:54] <rww> Wouldn't the correct channel for asking for help about #ubuntu-women* be #ubuntu-irc, not #ubuntu-ops? Or did that get changed and I didn't notice?
[05:55] <rww> or was that always the case and I'm mistaken
[05:55] <nigelb> I just poke the folks I know have have access :)
[05:56] <maco> rww: yes it would be
[05:57] <nigelb> maco, oh, -ops is wrong?
[05:58] <maco> nigelb: yeah -ops is for core channels. u-w isnt a core channel. -irc is for all-else
[05:58] <maco> some people in -ops have ops in u-w but thats incidental
[05:58] <nigelb> maco, ahh..
[05:58] <nigelb> yeah like e l k y
[05:58] <maco> right, and me. im in -ops because i'm a #kubuntu op
[05:58] <rww> although ops calls from #ubuntu-women go to #ubuntu-ops :)
[05:58] <maco> rww: yeah but they highlight everyone too
[05:59] <nigelb> thats just the bot I suppose
[05:59] <rww> maco: indeed. I just thought it was funny
[05:59] <maco> though actually lemme double check that list
[05:59] <rww> nigelb: yeah, it's because #ubuntu-women uses ubottu instead of an ubot* clone, I think
[06:00] <nigelb> rww, ah.  Now I'm aware of how less I know of the IRC infrastructure
[06:00] <maco> akgraner, svaksha, Mamarok, MichelleQ, Pendulum, and akk are missing from the !ops factoid
[06:00] <rww> nigelb: well, that was a guess. but yeah, the Ubuntu namespace IRC structure is rather convoluted :)
[06:01] <nigelb> maco, shouldn't the factoid be taking from the access list?
[06:01] <nigelb> (I thought thats how it worked)
[06:01] <maco> it has to be done manually
[06:02] <nigelb> ohh...
[06:02] <nigelb> rww, totally convoluted.  I agree completely there :)
[06:04] <maco> i just sent requests for updated factoids to -ops
[06:05] <nigelb> so the factoid varies based on the channel in which its called?
[06:05] <maco> yes
[06:05] <nigelb> thats so cool
[06:05] <nigelb> and complicated :D
[06:05] <maco> go into a pm with ubottu and type !ops-#ubuntu-women and youll see its different than just !ops
[06:06] <nigelb> will it trigger something in -ops channel?
[06:06] <nigelb> I dont want to get banned for my lifetime for bot abuse :D
[06:06] <maco> no, not if you do it in a pm
[06:06] <maco> well, unless you try to change it
[06:06] <maco> the botabuse factoid tells you to experiment in pm :P
[06:07] <maco> just dont use the verb "is" and you're good
[06:07] <nigelb> yeah, then it thinks I'm going to change something
[06:07] <maco> right
[06:07] <nigelb> lol
[06:08] <nigelb> BWEP is a nice touch
[06:08] <nigelb> BWEEP! even
[06:12] <nigelb> maco, you gonna be around?
[06:13] <maco> how long?
[06:13] <nigelb> well around 10 to 15 minutes
[06:13] <nigelb> need a little bit of help with pbuilder :)
[06:19] <rww> nigelb: the ops factoid in #ubuntu-ops will trigger the people who are operators of #ubuntu-ops ;P
[06:19] <rww> oh
[06:19] <rww> never mind, i misread your question
[06:20]  * nigelb hands rww coffee :)
[06:21] <MarkDude> http://www.kpfa.org/archive/id/59969    Lyz got the Ubuntu Women project & site mentioned on a local show.
[06:21]  * nigelb is listening now :)
[06:22] <nigelb> unix is open source?
[06:29] <maco> we haz factoid thanks to bazhang!
[06:29] <nigelb> yaay :)
[06:30]  * nigelb goes to test
[06:30] <nigelb> yaay :)
[06:32] <nigelb> maco, so anyone can add a factoid?
[06:32] <maco> nigelb: you can propose one. an ircc person has to approve them
[06:32] <nigelb> ahh
[06:34]  * nigelb is listening to pleia2 :)
[06:34] <rww> maco: it's actually "some random subset of the people in #ubuntu-ops", as far as I know, not just IRCC
[06:34] <nigelb> lol, he couldn't pronounce debian systems administrator properly...
[06:34] <maco> rww: oh. weird.
[06:35] <rww> might be "all core ops", I dunno
[06:35] <nigelb> pleia2, you sound like 'the ultimate geek' on the show :D :D
[06:46] <pleia2> oh no, I haven't listened yet!!!
[06:47] <nigelb> pleia2,  he couldn't pronounce debian systems administrator properly...
[06:47] <nigelb> that sounded really really cool :)
[06:47]  * pleia2 blushes
[06:47] <nigelb> well, you're slower than maco :D
[06:48] <maco> haha not hard
[06:48] <maco> faster than maco is harder
[06:48] <maco> but i think catherine tate can do it
[06:48] <nigelb> maco, I can beat you there
[06:48] <maco> (assuming you're talking about how fast i talk?)
[06:48] <nigelb> yup
[06:50] <nigelb> maco, from when I was a kid... my mom and dad were like "slow down when talking to someone" :D
[06:51] <maco> nigelb: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxB1gB6K-2A <-- catherine tate speaks pretty fast in there
[06:52] <nigelb> maco, whoa...
[06:52] <nigelb> I meant beating you btw
[06:52] <maco> yeah i know
[06:53] <maco> however, funny skit with catherine tate and david tennant
[06:53] <maco> and some rather fast talking
[06:54] <nigelb> yeah.. listening :)
[07:02] <pleia2> gosh, I sound like a grown up!
[07:02] <nigelb> you are :)
[07:02] <nigelb> actually you sound like a kid who got a new toy
[07:02] <maco> pleia2: but dont worry, you still dont look like one
[07:03] <maco> i'll be fully grey before you get any wrinkles
[07:03] <nigelb> lol
[07:07] <pleia2> yeah, me too, women age slow in my family
[08:54] <pleia2> ooh, Portuguese translations started \o/
[08:54] <pleia2> (a couple days ago actually, just getting through my queue of wiki updates mail)
[08:55] <nigelb> do we have point of contacts?
[08:55] <pleia2> not really :\
[08:55] <nigelb> just someone who recognizes spam in the respective languages
[08:55] <pleia2> it's happening a bit ad hoc
[08:55] <nigelb> would be nice to have a person taking responsibility for a particular language
[08:56] <pleia2> we do want some error checking, akgraner is talking to David Planella of translations stuff so we can get some help
[08:56] <nigelb> thats cool.  actually someone from loco teams would be great too
[08:56] <pleia2> yeah
[08:57] <pleia2> it would be nice to have a contact and an error-checker
[08:57] <pleia2> not only to confirm that it's not all junk, but hopefully make sure it preserves the nature of the message
[08:58] <nigelb> yeah, a little bit off might change the meaning plenty and google translate is not that great with fine tuning
[08:58]  * pleia2 nods
[09:02] <MarkDude> setting up spam filters in a language you are not fluent in would be very hard to do.
[09:02] <MarkDude> I still make mistakes in my native language
[09:02] <nigelb> exactly my point :)
[09:34] <czajkowski> aloha
[09:35] <nigelb> morning czajkowski :)
[11:20] <IdleOne> Nothing like highjacking a email thread and spinning it in the direction you want. For the record I don't like receiving attachments in emails either and yes this entire thing started out because of an attachment or two but it has evolved into accusations and a power struggle. as I understand it svaksha is the official founder of the Ubuntu women team as per Launchpad (correct me if I am wrong) from what I have seen from her last nigh
[11:20] <IdleOne> t on this channel and then on the ML. I think it may be time for this team to reconsider her position in the team as the ML admin.
[11:31] <IdleOne> I apologize for my last comment about svaksha. I did not mean to imply in anyway that she is not a good ML admin and I take back the part about the team reconsidering her position.
[11:34] <svaksha> IdleOne: I was ignoring your personal attack but since you were gracious enough to apologize I wanted to highlight a point. Has it ever occured to you how the above aggressive behaviour plays a part in silencing women, especially new ones (and maybe older folks too, i cant speculate).
[11:36] <svaksha> That its hapenning in a project for women is so ironical that i want to laugh out loud. Actually it makes me sad instead
[11:36]  * etali is sad to see the UW channels get heated, but thinks this could be a good opportunity to document how things work so tat it doesn't happen again in the future.
[11:36] <etali> s/tat/that
[11:37] <IdleOne> I am not going to respond to that. You are implying that I am trying to silence you in some way and that I am being aggressive towards you because I am a man.
[11:38] <IdleOne> I have made it clear that my position is I don't like email attachments. Now my concern is why we can't have more then 3 admins on the list and how it is you became the person who decides who gets to be admin?
[11:39] <IdleOne> I am going to have to defer this to a later time. I need to get ready for work. Have a nice day all :)
[11:40] <svaksha> IdleOne: No. Your comment about power struggle is odd considering it was akgraner who said "03:57:58 on < akgraner> I know that - whatever - I'll fix it... but as the leader I should have access "
[11:40]  * svaksha was not talking of power at all
[11:41] <svaksha> IdleOne: sure, anytime you are ready to talk
[13:06] <czajkowski> hmm from what I've seen I don't think anyone wants attachments be it small or large or a once off to happen again on the mailing list
[13:07] <czajkowski> regarding the ML admin - maybe there is something we can work on
[13:07] <czajkowski> I know I admin a few lists and sometimes things are waiting a few hours to go through
[13:07] <czajkowski> that's unfortunate but life :) we all can't be on 24/7 :)
[13:07] <czajkowski> It may be an idea though that the team leader have access to the list so they can push only their mails through if it's needed.
[13:08] <czajkowski> just a thought mind
[13:08] <nigelb> but they get stuck in the first place due to attachments
[13:08] <nigelb> so why do they need to be pushed through?
[13:09] <czajkowski> well not just attachments, sometimes sending from an alternative email address has happened to me, silly I've sent from @lczajkowski.com or @ubuntu.com
[13:10] <nigelb> my point of view is that with 4 admins with varying TZ, it only takes a few hours for them to notice
[13:10] <czajkowski> nigelb: I agree but it still happens.
[13:10] <czajkowski> shrugs
[13:11] <czajkowski> it's not a biggie, there is never going to be a mail that is sent to any lists that needs urgent replies, if there is chances are it'll go straight through
[13:11] <nigelb> yeah, sorta my point
[13:13] <nigelb> czajkowski, when a group of 4 are actually doing a good job on admin responsibilities on the M/L, I see no reason for new people to be appointed
[13:16] <svaksha> czajkowski: re alternate id, sub to the list and mark as no mail in your subscriber preferences
[13:17] <svaksha> its that simple
[13:17] <svaksha> the no mail is to avoid dupes
[13:19] <nigelb> czajkowski, also gmail lets you send mail from the account to which the mail was sent to
[13:19] <svaksha> fwiw, https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-women , has that as the first line
[13:20] <svaksha> This mailing list is closed to postings from non-subscribers. If you are already subscribed to the list from another address, you can subscribe again with additional addresses and then set them to NOMAIL, so that you continue to receive all your copies of postings to the mailing list at your preferred address, while able to post from multiple addresses. Please scroll down to subscribe using the
[13:20] <svaksha> form below.
[13:20] <svaksha> sorry for the paste
[13:22] <svaksha> also the first time a legit and know person posts from an alternate addy, the admins add it to the auto-approval list. Atleast i do
[13:29] <czajkowski> svaksha: aye I learnt the hard way a while back :)
[13:30] <svaksha> heh
[13:38] <akgraner> Ok look  - I mixed some apples and oranges in the discussion last - sorry about that - and as far as feeling attacked - svaksha you don't get the corner market on that - I respond b/c I felt like you were attacking me - I had other stuff I needed to get done and it was almost midnight here.  I wanted to walk away and process what your objections were.  I said I would bring it to the list and well you did ahead of which is fine - b
[13:38] <akgraner> ut I think the mailing list conversations I feel has now digressed into something personal - I'll go to the mailing and sort my apples and oranges...jeez  :-)  oh and good morning everyone
[13:39] <svaksha> akgraner: its ok. i dont need any clarification
[13:39] <svaksha> or sorting...lets just move on
[13:40] <nigelb> akgraner, good morning :)
[13:40] <elky> Considering the mail was for a discussion that really has somewhat of a deadline, and that discussion has not occurred, then there is need for clarification.
[13:41] <svaksha> another reason being there is a risk of people being turned off ( i just got an unsub note from the UW ml)
[13:41] <elky> Yes, heated discussions will do that.
[13:41] <svaksha> people unsubbing is  so counter-productive
[13:42] <svaksha> to the goal of increasing participation.
[13:42] <akgraner> svaksha, so is flaming people with a reactionary email...and that is exactly what I felt you did to me
[13:42] <svaksha> akgraner: i felt the same thing in the IRC convo today morning
[13:43] <akgraner> yes but I did not post all that to the world I walked away to process everything
[13:43] <svaksha> it felt like everyone was ganging up and not even reading why attachments are bad on a list
[13:43] <svaksha> on irc
[13:43] <elky> Stop, both of you, please.
[13:44] <akgraner> elky, :-)
[13:44] <elky> It isn't achieving anything. We have lost time to catch up on.
[13:44] <nigelb> thank you elky :)
[13:44] <svaksha> this chan is logged, so how can you assume that i was posting it to the world?
[13:45] <svaksha> elky: i agree
[13:45] <akgraner> svaksha, done done and done....  you had you say and I wanted to point out how you made me feel that's all...  I am moving on...
[13:45]  * elky hugs akgraner
[13:45] <svaksha> i feel the same, so lets stop it here.
[14:49] <Pendulum> hiya
[14:59] <nigelb> heya Pendulum :)
[14:59] <akgraner> Pendulum, hey!
[19:56] <Pendulum> IdleOne: random question, but is today a holiday in Quebec?