[00:25] just curious if the bulk of Kubuntu development is on the installer. [00:26] someone on #kubuntu indicated that the UI was more-or-less KDE. [00:26] without much augmentation. [00:26] so I was curious if Kubuntu offered much more than just "apt-get kde" and swapping out gnome for kde. [00:27] Your asking what is added to Kubuntu from KDE? [00:27] Oh, what Kubuntu has that KDE doesn't [00:28] s/oh/or [00:28] yeah, something like that. [00:29] btw, this is just a passing curiosity. [00:29] my coworking installed Ubuntu, and then looked up and said, "I think I'm using Gnome then" [00:29] at which point, I remembered that Kubuntu existed. [00:29] Yes, Kubuntu is the KDE version. It's very close to pure KDE [00:30] If you want to look apt-get install kubuntu-desktop [00:30] You can pick between Gnome and KDE at login screen [00:31] I see. [00:31] Ubuntu uses Gnome as a desktop enviroment, Kubuntu uses KDE [00:31] so does Canonical as a company keep up with Kubuntu development? [00:31] or is it a completely volunteer-based distro? [00:32] Mostly volunteer-based [00:32] agateau and Riddell work for canonical [00:32] Riddell is an employee of canonical [00:32] actually, that said, it might even use the same multiverse/universes, right? [00:32] along w/ agateau [00:32] tnks: Yes [00:32] tnks yes the same universe/multiverse [00:33] I see, makes sense, then. [00:33] I haven't switched from Debian to Ubuntu, so I'm not exactly sure how much Ubuntu augments the Gnome experience. [00:33] I know there's lots of non-Gnome stuff. [00:35] * apachelogger hates when stuff in plasma breaks -.- [00:35] * apachelogger hates when he should be in bed but indeed is not [00:35] JontheEchidna: ping [00:35] apachelogger: pong [00:35] what you break this time apachelogger? [00:35] JontheEchidna: do you have a karmic testing vm? [00:36] DarkwingDuck: actually it seems to be left over from nixternal :( [00:36] Nope, not anymore [00:36] * apachelogger doesnt get how this ever worked [00:36] apachelogger: Ouch [00:36] anyone with karmic around? [00:37] * apachelogger starts crying [00:38] what's broken? === claydoh_ is now known as claydoh [00:39] the settings menu [00:39] or rather the hiding of systemsettings in said meny [00:39] menu even [00:39] the first layer of that bug is caused by kickoffrc [00:39] hmmmm, [00:39] from kds [00:39] it sets the systemapps to systemsettings and kickoff using fullpaths [00:39] the hiding code however expects only file name without extension [00:40] so, if one removes that kickoffrc stuff the hiding code actually kicks in [00:40] and here is the madness in all this [00:40] kickoff works like this [00:40] at initial loading it only creates a model and view of the categories [00:41] to be precise of each category that is not set to noDisplay or doesnt have any entries [00:41] okay [00:41] the hiding however happens in the code that adds the app itself to the model [00:41] so the category is populated before the app is hidden [00:42] at the time the settings menu gets created, it still has an entry [00:42] but then the entry (systemsettings) does not get shown because of the hiding magic [00:42] so you have a settings menu but the menu is empty :( [00:42] Thats strange [00:43] But, somehow it worked... [00:43] well [00:43] sorta [00:43] my theory is that someone changed the init process around so that initaly only the categories are in memory [00:44] so earlier the process might have looke different, that by the time the categories got populated, settings was empty and thus hidden [00:45] because I cant find any change in the model code that would cause this problem [00:45] hmmm [00:45] JontheEchidna: maybe you can talk to aseigo about this? [00:46] * JontheEchidna sees wall of text and cowers [00:46] I know him being a suse user he probably has a billion entries in the settings category (and every other cat :P) [00:46] but there are those poor apacheloggers that like a tidy menu and find the broken code right there rather awful ;) [00:46] * apachelogger goes to bed [00:46] nini === hagabaka_ is now known as hagabaka === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk [03:01] who is doing the installer? [03:01] me? [03:01] hahahahahahahahaahaha [03:01] :P [03:01] I found a small problem [03:01] so did [03:01] so did i [03:01] just sent an email to mailing list [03:02] Ahh, what problem did you find? [03:03] during the scan of the repos if you click skip, ubiquity closes or stops, and will never finish [03:04] Hmm, Mine wasn't that bad, however it invited me to explore K-Desktop while it was installing even though I didn't go through LiveCD but at the menu just pressed install [03:06] hrmm now it is stuck at configuring hardware [03:06] Mine is working just fine... Beta1? [03:07] umm sunday's daily live whatever that was [03:08] hrmm now have moved on [03:09] Yeah, mine is sticking at Config hardware [03:09] there we go [03:09] its a huge pause [03:09] made me wonder if the thinwas stuck [03:11] Mine was maybe 5 min [03:11] hrmm gotta go walk the dog and of course it started raining [03:11] :/ [03:15] Riddell, are you there? [03:15] wee... now it froze upon finishing and wont reboot. [03:19] i'm frozen in Running dpkg [03:22] It's good for me now. 64bit Desktop === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates [03:23] wow after all that, an installer crash [03:23] copying over my 38,000 song music collenction :( [03:24] that might take awhile [03:24] 'bout an hour [03:26] THen my emails and .ssh and .gnupg and i'll be good [03:26] wow [03:26] wouldn't it be easer to keep you /home separate? [03:27] swapped harddrives [03:27] upgrade from 300Gig to 1TB [03:27] ah [03:27] thats a nice amount of storage [03:27] yup :D next... RAM [03:36] i need a new work laptop, but it is out of warrenty... too may problems , dell told me today they would like to fix it but couldn't cuase it was out of warranty [03:36] my thinkpad is really nice === DarkwingDuck is now known as DarkwingDuck_ === DarkwingDuck_ is now known as DarkwingDuckLapt === DarkwingDuckLapt is now known as DarkwingLaptop [07:21] just got this in the #phonon channel earlier: [07:21] Problem: KUbuntu 10.2, libphonon-dev 4:4.6.2-0ubuntu3, phonon 4:4.6.2-0ubuntu3 ... during compilation of kdelibs I got "Could NOT find Phonon: Found version "4.3.1", but required is at least "4.3.80" (found /usr/include/qt4)" [07:22] Riddell: ^ [07:22] so something is indeed wrong with the phonon version [07:48] Mamarok: you are trying to compile trunk [07:49] kde commit 1107539 [07:49] * apachelogger pokes ubottu [07:49] http://websvn.kde.org/?view=revision&revision=1107539 [07:49] ubottu: silly thingy :P [07:49] Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :) [07:50] apachelogger: not me, a user reported this [07:51] so the user is compiling trunk :P [07:51] well, apparently he is on Lucid and the installed Phonon reports as 4.3.1 [07:51] that is what we found out yesterday already? [08:33] \o === steveire_ is now known as steveire [08:59] lo Quintasan [08:59] Quintasan: do you also haz the nice sun? [09:00] * apachelogger is blindind by the nice sun and cant properly read on his display ^^ [09:03] apachelogger: yeah, I'm soon going out to get some fresh air [09:03] :) [09:04] gross [09:04] ewww [09:04] * apachelogger falls over [09:06] lol [09:06] apachelogger: are you a vampire or something? [09:07] * Quintasan gets a mirror, opens up all windows and reflects light at apachelogger [09:07] no, I am professional floss geek :P [09:08] still, sunlight should be harming for you [09:08] * Quintasan reflects some more [09:08] a professional floss geek that doesnt have no nothing to eat [09:08] I WILL STARVE! [09:08] and you dare reflecting stupid sunlight onto me [09:08] ! [09:08] you are a cruel monster [09:10] hm [09:10] * apachelogger reaches 100% madness, undresses and declares the channel nudist zone [09:15] lol [09:15] * Quintasan gets some aspirin for apachelogger [09:15] looks like you drank too much apachelogger [09:15] I didnt do no drinkin for at least 2 weeks [09:15] probably longer [09:25] * Mamarok goes to fetch a restraint jacket while Quintasan keeps apachelogger's attention diverted from her [09:26] apachelogger: that's why you are getting crazy right now [09:26] ah [09:26] OMG [09:26] you'd better dring something [09:26] Quintasan: I should go do the shopping [09:26] and buy some beer or something too [09:27] * apachelogger puts on his bathing suit http://www.anthonyshaffer.co.uk/Pics/Screenplays/EvilSun15.JPG and leaves for a bit [09:27] O_o [09:27] lol [09:29] o.o aspirin isnt good enough, goes for the ritalin [09:48] Is there some way to list all packages that have been installed by user? (i.e. excluding the ones installed with the system, or automatically installed dependencies) [09:52] Riddell: got a minute? [09:56] JontheEchidna: there? [09:59] any devs around here? i need to talk for a few minutes... === shadeslayer is now known as evilshadeslayer [10:01] evilshadeslayer: that's it? no one answers for a few minutes and you go ahead and become evil? [10:02] amichair: hehe... i dont have alot of time... in between classes [10:02] evilshadeslayer: what's up? [10:02] amichair: well im thinking of starting a project... on the lines of the ubuntu manual project... [10:03] i was hoping to catch nixternal or Riddell but... [10:03] so anyways... my idea was to have a Kubuntu Manual....\ [10:04] like for 10.10..... so if anyones interested i might go ahead with it.. otherwise itll be a waste of time [10:05] amichair: what do you think? [10:05] I'm actually not familira with Ubuntu Manual [10:05] not familiar, either [10:05] amichair: oh check out : www.ubuntu-manual.com [10:06] amichair: um.. : http://ubuntu-manual.org/ [10:06] that's confusing, there's ubuntumanual.org and ubuntu-manual.org and they are different [10:07] i think its the one ive given you... [10:08] evilshadeslayer: in general I'm all for good documentation and/or books to help start out, especially for someone coming from Windows (which is probably everyone who needs help) [10:08] amichair: theres also : www.test.ubuntu-manual.org [10:08] but I do think it's a good idea to discuss it here or in the mailing list, to get eveyone's input on what should go in [10:08] amichair: yeah... the aim of the ubuntu manual project is to give out new converts help.... [10:09] evilshadeslayer: probably talk to nixternal about documentation needs [10:09] Riddell: yeah,like i said ill have to talk to him.... [10:10] amichair: yeah ill put in a mail in the devel list this evening :) [10:10] Riddell: btw how much space do we have on the CD right now? out of 700 MB i mean :) [10:11] agateau: how could kmix's osd widget be used by kmix and the battery applet? where would it need to be placed? [10:11] evilshadeslayer: depends on the image, see cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu [10:12] Riddell: whee... loads of space :D ( 655 MB ) [10:12] debfx: kdelibs? [10:13] :/ [10:14] evilshadeslayer: how is that possible? we don't even have room for FireFox, which is probably the most installed app... [10:14] oh thats the alternate.... 676 on the live system [10:14] amichair: we will probably never have ff in the default install [10:15] evilshadeslayer: it used to be there, no? Or maybe I'm mistaken [10:15] amichair: um. dont think so.. or i would have seen it on the ML [10:16] amichair: we installed arora once.... but that was it [10:16] evilshadeslayer: maybe back in dapper or something? [10:16] man time flies :-) [10:17] amichair: ohh... ive only been involved since intrepid [10:17] that's when I first go Kubuntized [10:17] amichair: hehe... i got kubuntized in Intrepid.... i ran gnome and KDE and xfce :P [10:18] Although i kept ordering CD's from shipit since hoary.... [10:18] I went straight from windows... a year or two of double-booting, and now windows rests in piece on my old always-off P4 [10:19] how the new CD will look like? === klingeo is now known as ofirk [10:19] amichair: i still dual boot.... but im thinking of virtualizing windows now.. dont open it.... *ever* [10:19] we don't know what the CD artwork will look like, maybe I should ask [10:19] evilshadeslayer: anyway, I'm sure there's no wasted space there... maybe a mixup between mbs and mibs? (or whatever they're called) [10:20] Riddell: yeah i was searching for it and i couldnt find it either :P === ofirk is now known as ofir [10:20] amichair: yeah... every KB is important on the CD :p [10:22] evilshadeslayer: there's no incentive to not fill up every byte [10:22] I wonder if CD/DVD is the last we'll see of optical and/or mechanical media... [10:23] o/ [10:23] amichair: http://imagebin.org/91866 : rofl [10:23] hey apachelogger [10:23] Riddell: random though on CD artwork ... it would be super cool if the artwork could be in line with the rest of the artwork [10:23] hi amichair [10:23] apachelogger: you mean the new logo? [10:24] evilshadeslayer: what am I looking at? [10:24] Riddell: oh btw did you add the Kubuntu logo to the Kickoff menu? it doest work with other themes [10:24] logo -- logo != defnition of artwork [10:24] amichair: the speed... [10:24] evilshadeslayer: oh.... those were the days :-) [10:24] amichair: thats the download speed in my campus :P [10:25] evilshadeslayer: it works when the theme does not specifiy their own [10:25] it always go to kubuntu.org [10:25] unless kds is not installed [10:25] apachelogger: hm... and where does the logo get specified? [10:26] btw, yesterday when trying out oem install, I noticed a humungous kubuntu logo in k menu, messed everything up [10:26] branding svgz somewhere in the theme [10:26] i installed the glassified theme and i miss the logo :( [10:26] amichair: messed everything up? [10:26] apachelogger has made that logo smaller in bzr [10:26] too small in my opinion, you can hardly make out the circle's detail [10:26] evilshadeslayer: poke the theme author then :P [10:27] apachelogger: btw any views on a kubuntu manual? [10:27] the website is almost done, so if there is any art-work needed to be done, I can help [10:27] Riddell: it's not much smaller than before, but from a proportional POV it is better suited [10:27] there is about equal empty space on each side now [10:28] evilshadeslayer: like in a print manual? [10:28] apachelogger: like the ubuntu manual project [10:28] ok gtg [10:29] apachelogger: cya in the evening [10:29] Riddell: IMHO the only way to prevent the blurryiness of the circle is to make a special version for small sizes, though quite frankly I wouldnt know how one can make a circle of that particular kind smallsizish :( [10:29] that's why I liked it big [10:30] that is a work around, not a fix :P [10:31] Riddell: if we change the kickoff logo to the circle the blurryness wouldnt matter ;) [10:31] people wouldnt look at it close enough, because they recognize the basic pattern and make it out as this circle thingy [10:31] so my theory at least :) [10:32] * apachelogger thinks that it will be difficult finding the resources for a manual project [10:33] ubuntu one is 172 pages [10:34] even if we had a team that could throw out 172 pages of documentation in 6 months, maintain that amount of content is even more a challange [10:34] let alone getting that amount of content translated [10:34] apachelogger: http://imagebin.org/91867 [10:35] (btw is imagebin.ca down? is there a preferred ubuntu imagebin?) [10:35] amichair: yeah, I made it less biggy [10:35] still I think it will overlap on those small sizes [10:35] and that it looks so fuggly is all kickoff's fault :P [10:36] worth a bug report IMHO, maybe fade the text towards the logo or something [10:36] as it is that just looks like a bug [10:36] amichair: do you also find the fonts rather big? [10:36] apachelogger: what if u switched places? kubuntu followed by username? [10:36] agateau: in libplasma? [10:37] amichair: that would still make the text clash into the kickoff border [10:37] so youd still need some visual help there [10:37] amichair: yeah, but that would look slightly less problematic perhaps [10:37] or, the username text in a line under kubuntu? just the images on the top line? [10:38] that wastes space :P [10:38] having the logo on the left also caues image overload [10:38] you have logo + user icon right next to each other [10:39] if the kubuntu is matched to the image size, each on opposing corners, then all that is added is the height of the username text, which is not that much [10:39] (matched to the image height, that is) [10:40] that will sure look weird [10:40] maybe... [10:40] amichair: well, feel free to give it a try, but from my POV the only sensible *fix* is to add fading to the text [10:40] or, maybe we can drop the host name? is it needed there? [10:41] workaround [10:41] what i people have long names? [10:42] then they'll have problems in any case :-P [10:42] well [10:42] not if we fix it properly :P [10:43] amichair: we couldnt even strip the hostname at this point since it would break string freeze [10:48] apachelogger: sorry, I'm fresh out of bad ideas ;-) [10:48] btw is everything frozen for the beta, or until final? [10:48] beta [10:49] goody [10:49] there's still time for a revolution! [10:50] does ubuntu have an imagebin? [10:51] Riddell: regarding the merge thing, I wrote the reporter to try reinstalling software-properties first in case it's broken at his end, we'll see how it goes [10:51] debfx: possibly [10:54] Riddell: the icon name of the kubuntu menu icon in kds is wrong [10:54] spec says start-here-kubuntu not kubuntu-menu [10:54] agateau: hai, btw, I assigned some buggies to you that ought to be fixed before 10.04 [10:54] I just used what we shipped in karmic [10:54] apachelogger: yeah [10:54] duplicates [10:55] same bug as amarok missing icons [10:55] Riddell: in that case it was all wrong in karmic too :D [10:55] I am on it [10:55] the system settings scrollbar is bad, who's in charge of that? what package is that anyway, is it ours? [10:55] agateau: just wanted to make sure that everything is documented ;) [10:59] apachelogger: ^^ you are the oracle, you surely must know... [10:59] amichair: apt-cache showsrc systemsettings [11:01] Riddell: 10x... so it's upstream and we patch it to our needs? [11:01] no [11:01] it is upstream and we patch it as per upstream's suggestions :P [11:02] we don't patch it at all [11:03] ah, ok. So it's an upstream bug. [11:04] uhhh [11:04] maybe we can use wordwarp in kickoff [11:05] apachelogger: make the username multiline? good idea! it's got extra vertical space anyway... [11:05] woah [11:05] the scrollbar in systemsettings is really bogus [11:05] like seriously awful [11:05] apachelogger: yeah, that's the bug I'm reporting [11:05] but I think it worked properly in 4.4.1 [11:05] it's almost unusable [11:05] without getting RSI [11:05] woah [11:06] it should come bundled with rsibreak [11:06] wordwarp messed up the layout ^^ [11:06] evne though my name fits the space [11:06] bad idea [11:06] who had that silly idea anyway [11:06] it's a good idea, I'm sure it can be done [11:07] leave the widget size fixed, and let the text inside it flow like wine [11:07] well [11:07] I think the layout is a bit fugly [11:07] oh right [11:07] JontheEchidna fiddled with the layout to make the user icon properly aligned [11:07] only yesterday I was fighting against qt to fix ubiquity [11:08] I suppose since then the user icon does not belong to the layout anymore [11:08] and thus he wordwrap of course does not take the user icon into account [11:08] what is more important is that for some reason the logo expands so that the wordwarp happens when it shouldnt [11:08] u can probably just define a widget for the text, and put whatever layout/label u need inside it [11:09] and probably mess around with its contentsmargins too [11:11] now that would be silly :P [11:11] layouts is the right approach here [11:35] I see the printer applet nested scrollbar bug is still there [11:38] nested scrollbar bug? [11:40] Riddell: printer job options has a scrollbar inside the outer scrollbar [11:42] Riddell: http://imagebin.org/91874 [11:43] u need to use both scrollbars to reach the bottom [12:00] can I upgrade directly from 09.04 to lucid? [12:00] no [12:01] 'k === Riddell changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Kubuntu Developer Channel | Test ISO images! | Support in #kubuntu | Beta 2 Freeze, UI Freeze, String Freeze, Feature Freeze | https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo | milestoned bugs marked as kubuntu http://tinyurl.com/yjybcx9 only 9 left, squish them quick or they'll be gone! [12:08] topicdiff Test ISO images! [12:24] Riddell: isnt kubuntu_71_default_plasma_layout.diff from kdebase-workspace replaced by the init script? [12:24] i.e. can be removed [12:27] apachelogger: yes [12:27] * apachelogger rms [12:29] Riddell: kubuntu_105_netbook_favourites.diff can be archived via capser I suppose? [12:36] agateau: just so you know http://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=66&t=87060&p=153899#p153897 do we have something to backport? [12:37] apachelogger: I tried that but couldn't find anything which worked reliably [12:37] apachelogger: yes I expect we have dbusmenu patches leaking into backports [12:37] kk [12:38] Riddell: about the favourites patch ... there is a config file it seems, so we could probably just dump the appropriate stuff in kubuntu-netbook-defaults and casper could then just run sed on that file === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk [12:44] apachelogger: I tried that, it'll be in the casper history, but it didn't work reliably and then the config file format changed so I gave up [12:44] can't remember what didn't work reliably about it off the top of my head though, I should write stuff like that down [12:45] Riddell: we should look into this post release [12:45] ah finally :) [12:45] * apachelogger thinks that a lot of the stuff in workspace can either be done without a patch or upstreamed with a bit of cream on top of it [12:47] apachelogger: btw our conversation about kubuntu-manual.... [12:47] * apachelogger falls over [12:48] apachelogger: :P [12:49] apachelogger: well like i said,im thinking of starting a project on kubuntu-manual.... [12:49] shadeslayer: That is a lot of work. Have you considered instead working with the doc team, or working with KDE upstream to write a more generic manual? [12:50] persia: well i wasnt thinking of starting it alone :D [12:50] shadeslayer: youd need a lot of help [12:50] apachelogger: hmm.... [12:50] quite frankly I am not even sure if upstream would want to start that kind of thing, because if you get that started you need to stick with it and maintain it [12:51] apachelogger: ^^ you mean KDE? [12:51] yes [12:51] and KDE got loads of documenters [12:51] yeah i dont think KDE would be interested... [12:52] also, if you want a manual, then you want a good one, so there must be some obvious quality difference between the off-the-shelve ubuntu book and the manual [12:52] persia: anyways half the work is already done for us in the ubuntu manual [12:52] persia: most of it can be just copied with minor changes and used in kubuntu manual [12:52] Maybe 20%, but seriously, you'll get more for your effort contributing to the documentation team. [12:53] shadeslayer: as soon as you make changes to the copies you rob yourself of consistency [12:53] either you then manually merge line by line changes, or copy again and risk regressions etc. [12:54] it's not like you create a manual once, but it needs constant maintenance [12:54] say kubuntu switches dragon player for kaffeine, youd need to rewrite a whole section probably AND change every reference ever made to dragon player [12:55] ( this is precisely why im discussing it here :P ) [12:55] shadeslayer: everyone is already quite busy as it is :S [12:55] also you want people who work on this and this only [12:55] maybe other doc tasks [12:56] but really no one who might get carried away by some bug in kickoff ;) [12:58] apachelogger: I sent the fix for flicker to Riddell, I think it is in main now [12:59] apachelogger: on that subject, lets have lancelot already :D [12:59] agateau: just the man I waned [12:59] wanted [12:59] * apachelogger has one very strong opinion about lancelot [12:59] * agateau is not sure it's a good news [12:59] agateau: it never is when jussi01 says that... [13:00] that's what I thought [13:00] :) [13:00] agateau: seem that the notifier does strange things when you click ignore, or not now. Im getting apps minimise when I do that. [13:00] agateau: still getting the flickers though [13:00] random apps, ie. quassel, chromium [13:00] whatever is focused. [13:00] agateau: did I report that the kopete menu takes like one minute to construct the first time? [13:00] well, not that long, but too long [13:00] jussi01: what do you mean with "notifier"? [13:01] jussi01: the statusnotifieritem ? [13:01] or the update notifier [13:01] agateau: ie. when kpackage kit pops aup a message saying "you have 10 updates" [13:01] ok, update notifier then [13:01] or the one for the restart after updting the kernel [13:01] not sure I am the man you want [13:01] agateau: that is not update notifier :P [13:01] that is kpk [13:02] agateau: ScottK said to blame you :P [13:02] I never worked on this [13:02]