[01:59] <Ddorda> have you seen this: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/04/now-that-looks-familiar-buttons-switch.html ? new screenshots now =\
[02:17] <donri> Someone already wrote a script to fix any screenshots. :)
[02:20] <donri> I think this order is good, no button will ever move. Like, I don't think any window has only close and maximize buttons.
[03:08] <Ddorda> donri: I hope it will work with RTL languages too
[03:09] <donri> Is RTL any different WRT buttons?
[03:09] <Ddorda> donri: indeed, we have the buttons in the right now
[03:10] <donri> You used to have them on the left?
[03:14] <Ddorda> donri: right
[03:15] <donri> Interesting. :)
[03:15] <Ddorda> donri: we also have the menus in the right.
[03:15] <Ddorda> donri: yea, complicated language. we're the most buggy language
[03:16] <donri> Heh.
[03:16] <donri> What language would that be?
[03:16] <Ddorda> Hebrew
[03:16] <donri> Ah.
[03:17] <Ddorda> Arabic suppose to have the same bugs, but they almost don't translate, so I guess it's less buggy on English :P
[03:18] <Ddorda> well, ill be back later, cya :D
[03:18] <donri> Bye.
[03:48] <humphreybc> anyone know if Luke is going to build a new quickshot CD image anytime soon?
[03:49] <godbyk> I think he's working on it.
[03:49] <godbyk> Trying to make enough space to get all the language packs on it.
[03:49] <humphreybc> yeah he emailed me aboug that
[03:49] <humphreybc> we're switching it to a DVD
[03:49] <humphreybc> he's run out of packages to remove
[03:49] <godbyk> humphreybc: we need to branch the manual so I can start jamming on formatting the English manual.
[03:50] <humphreybc> yeah... thought that was meant to happen while I was away?
[03:50] <humphreybc> (so i don't have to do it!)
[03:50] <humphreybc> as an aside, "about a bug" = "aboug"
[03:50] <godbyk> sweet. that'll simplify things.
[03:50] <humphreybc> i have no idea how to branch things
[03:51] <godbyk> me neither.
[03:51] <humphreybc> i'll need to get someone else to help us
[03:51] <humphreybc> like thumper
[03:51] <humphreybc> :P
[03:52] <humphreybc> surely dutchie can work it out
[03:52] <humphreybc> he seems to be good at all these miscellaneous things
[03:56] <godbyk> I'd try it, but I fear somehow screwing up the translations.
[04:03] <humphreybc> yeah
[04:13] <thumper> humphreybc: what is your question?
[04:13] <humphreybc> hey tim
[04:14] <humphreybc> we need to branch some stuff. godbyk will be able to explain it better
[04:14] <godbyk> Hey, thumper.
[04:14] <godbyk> we need to branch the manual a bit.
[04:15] <godbyk> I need one branch that's stable for the translators to continue working against.  They've been working against main, but we need to move that work to a new branch.
[04:15] <godbyk> I need a second branch that I can use to tidy up the formatting of the first edition of the English manual.
[04:16] <godbyk> Finally, we'll want the main branch to be available for everyone to continue working on for a second edition.
[04:16] <thumper> and the formatting for the first edition you want different from the one the translators use
[04:16] <thumper> ?
[04:17] <godbyk> thumper: this is outlined a bit better here: https://lists.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/msg01231.html
[04:17] <godbyk> thumper: yeah.
[04:18] <godbyk> basically, I'm going to be tweaking the english edition, but I don't want my string changes to affect the translations.
[04:19] <humphreybc> yeah so we need to duplicate what we have now by three... right?
[04:19] <humphreybc> one of them will be the 1st edition in english
[04:19] <humphreybc> one of them will be the second edition, in english
[04:19] <humphreybc> and the last one will be the one for the translators to work off..
[04:19] <humphreybc> is that rihgt?
[04:19] <humphreybc> right*
[04:19] <godbyk> humphreybc: yep, pretty much.
[04:21] <thumper> ok, what I'm going to suggest may or may not screw up the translations...
[04:21] <thumper> not sure
[04:21] <thumper> you want to create two more series
[04:21] <thumper> although which two is the big question
[04:22] <godbyk> right.
[04:22] <godbyk> I'd love to have one of the new series be for the translators, but I don't know how to safely (and transparently) migrate them to the new series.
[04:22] <thumper> to avoid as much messing around with translations as possible, I suggest making "lucid-english" and "mavrick-english"
[04:22] <thumper> then make the development focus mavrick-english
[04:22] <godbyk> that way the current main branch/trunk could be used for 2nd edition and 10.10 work.
[04:22] <thumper> that way trunk becomes mavrick
[04:23] <thumper> and the translations don't get touched
[04:23] <godbyk> okay
[04:23] <godbyk> that sounds safest.
[04:23]  * thumper reboots server, so will disappear for a bit
[04:23] <godbyk> can we set it so that "bzr branch lp:ubuntu-manual" pull the maverick-english branch (or whichever branch we prefer at the time)?
[04:24] <humphreybc> godbyk: I have a feeling that bzr branch lp:ubuntu-manual will pull whatever is development focus
[04:24] <godbyk> humphreybc: as long as we can set that, I'm okay with it.
[04:24] <humphreybc> yeah
[04:25] <godbyk> we'll need to update our instructions to authors/editors/translators/etc., to reflect these changes.
[04:38] <thumper> godbyk: yes, by making mavrick-english the development series for the project lp:ubuntu-manual will get that one
[04:38] <godbyk> thumper: cool. that'll work then.
[05:22] <godbyk> thumper: is the branching something that you can do quickly? or can you point me to the docs so I can figure it out?  (specifically, how not to disrupt the current translations.)  thanks!
[05:51] <thumper> godbyk: just push to two new branches
[05:51] <thumper> godbyk: those will be your new series branches
[05:52] <godbyk> thumper: Okay. Do I have to do anything for the translations?
[05:52] <thumper> godbyk: you shouldn't have to do anything
[05:54] <godbyk> 'kay.
[06:59] <humphreybc> so i've noticed screenshots are making fairly good progress
[06:59] <humphreybc> but translations not so much?
[07:00] <godbyk> humphreybc: I haven't been tracking the translations progress too closely.
[07:01] <godbyk> are they busy translating software strings instead of our docs?
[07:01] <godbyk> or is there no interest in undertaking the translation of a huge book?
[07:01] <humphreybc> not sure
[07:02] <humphreybc> i think it's just something that's going to take ages
[07:02] <donri> I tried to do some translating but it starts out by throwing loads of technical and latex-heavy glossary definitions at you.
[07:03] <godbyk> donri: that's true. unfortunately, those have to be created before the document compiles. (it'll fail if you reference a glossary entry that doesn't exist yet.)
[07:03] <donri> Heh.
[07:03] <godbyk> donri: Can you think of ways we could make it easier for translators?
[07:03] <donri> I did like, six glossary entries, had to fix some up to three times because I did it wrong, then my mind was all ADHD-fuzzy.
[07:04] <humphreybc> lol
[07:04] <donri> Well, better instructions regarding LaTeX could help.
[07:04] <godbyk> (We try to make it easy for everyone to help out, from pointing out bugs, to writing content, to translating.)
[07:04] <humphreybc> https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual
[07:04] <humphreybc> we could probably make it clearer about latex for the translators
[07:04] <humphreybc> maybe we should invest some time into po4a in the future
[07:04] <humphreybc> problem is it's bloody hard to get in touch with all the translators
[07:05] <godbyk> donri: Have you see the latex-handout.pdf file?
[07:05] <donri> Nope.
[07:06] <godbyk> let me toss it up on the website and give you a link.  one sec.
[07:06] <humphreybc> godbyk, have you mailed that to the list?
[07:07] <godbyk> humphreybc: I think I have a few times.
[07:07] <humphreybc> okay
[07:07] <godbyk> donri: http://files.ubuntu-manual.org/style-guide.pdf
[07:07] <humphreybc> it's so hard to get ahold of the translators
[07:07] <godbyk> donri: Chapter 4 should be helpful with translating the LaTeX stuff.
[07:07] <godbyk> Chapter 3 will tell you what the commands mean.
[07:08] <godbyk> humphreybc: Perhaps we should compose an 'everything you need to know to get started translating the manual' email or something.
[07:08] <humphreybc> right
[07:09] <humphreybc> but how many translators actually subscribe to the list?
[07:09] <godbyk> no clue
[07:10] <humphreybc> i don't think it's that many
[07:10] <humphreybc> which makes it very hard to talk to them
[07:10] <humphreybc> perhaps something that needs to be worked on in launchpad
[07:10] <humphreybc> maybe we need some popup that displays before they start translating
[07:11] <godbyk> Can we add any text to the top of this page? https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual
[07:12] <donri> I think you can do that. I got a notice from the "Ubuntu Swedish translation team" or something like that.
[07:12] <donri> "Before translating, be sure to go through Ubuntu Swedish Translators guidelines." on the top.
[07:15] <humphreybc> no we can't
[07:15] <humphreybc> it's something to talk about with the launchpad developers
[07:16] <godbyk> yeah, tell them we want per-project (or per-branch) translation instructions.
[07:16] <humphreybc> thumper, you hear that? ;)
[07:19] <godbyk> donri: Does that style-guide.pdf file look like it addresses the questions you had about LaTeX and translations?  If not, please let me know. It's definitely a work-in-progress.
[07:20] <donri> I didn't really have questions; I was later told I was doing it wrong. That PDF does show that, in deed. :)
[07:20] <donri> Specifically, I was translating the \newglossaryitem{this}.
[07:20] <godbyk> Ah, yeah.
[07:21] <donri> When you just drop in to Launchpad, and don't really know LaTeX, it's easy to guess what to translate, but also easy to guess wrong, apparently.
[07:21] <godbyk> The 'this' is used as a label and LaTeX needs it to be stupidly simple.  Plain ASCII chars, almost no punctuation, etc.
[07:21] <donri> Yea, I understand. :)
[07:21] <godbyk> I think one of them has a space in it in the English version, but that really shouldn't be there either, I don't think.
[07:21] <donri> It's saner probably, anyway, because you avoid confusion of translating the ID and using different translations throughout.
[07:22] <godbyk> When I first dropped it into launchpad, the translators were translating the \menu and \then commands, which LaTeX *really* got irked about. :)
[07:22] <donri> Heh.
[07:24] <donri> I could only suggest translations, I hope the person to accept them gets which ones to use.
[07:24] <donri> E.g. either they use the newest or they see which is right.
[07:24] <donri> I can't remove suggestions. :(
[07:26] <godbyk> I'm not sure how to handle editing and bugs/errors in the translations, either.
[07:26] <humphreybc> :S
[07:26] <humphreybc> could be quite hectic
[07:26] <godbyk> I pretty much just have to assume that whatever translations are provided are, in fact, correct.
[07:27] <godbyk> humphreybc: Apparently I have to be the project's owner or driver to create a new series.
[07:27] <humphreybc> oh really
[07:27] <humphreybc> so i have to do that
[07:27] <humphreybc> what do i need to name it?
[07:28] <godbyk> Well, let's see..
[07:28] <humphreybc> Name, summary, branch and release URL patter
[07:28] <humphreybc> pattern, even
[07:28] <godbyk> we'll need a 10.04-e1 and a 10.04-e2 (or lucid instead of 10.04 if you like)
[07:29] <godbyk> and main will end up as 10.10 at some point.
[07:31] <godbyk> humphreybc: oh! now I see the "Register a series" link.
[07:31] <godbyk> I wasn't looking far enough down the page.
[07:33] <humphreybc> lol
[07:33] <humphreybc> so you can do it?
[07:34] <godbyk> seems so.
[07:35] <godbyk> do you think we should use 10.04 or lucid?
[07:35] <humphreybc> use lucid
[07:35]  * donri thinks the names are cute but the numbers more clear.
[07:35] <humphreybc> development names are way better
[07:38] <artnay> currently some of the sentences at http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/ are not translatable at launchpad. kevin has done some updates but those are mostly removing some obsolete sentences
[07:38] <artnay> and btw, is there some sort of deadline for translations?
[07:39] <humphreybc> artnay: yeah, the RC release on the 21st is a rough deadline
[07:39] <godbyk> 'kay. I'll be a few minutes while I set these series and branches up.
[07:39] <artnay> humphreybc: umh, so there's no possibility to continue translation after lucid has been released?
[07:39] <godbyk> artnay: I haven't been updating the test.ubuntu-manual.org translations lately.  I'll try to do that in a bit.
[07:39] <godbyk> artnay: by all means continue translating. :)
[07:40] <godbyk> we'll be releasing the translated manuals as they're finished.
[07:40] <humphreybc> artnay: oh yes, definitely
[07:40] <godbyk> if you'd like your translation to be released at the same time as the English manual, that's the deadline to aim for, though.
[07:40] <humphreybc> yup
[07:40] <godbyk> (you'll catch the most fanfare that way.)
[07:41] <donri> Translations probably will catch up better by 10.10, as I guess that manual will greatly be based on the current?
[07:41] <artnay> I mentioned this project at our LoCo meeting two days ago. some people were quite interested in helping with the translation -- but we're not sure if we're able to translate it all before the release
[07:41] <donri> Launchpad can't currently suggest much. Whole sentences don't exist anywhere else this way.
[07:41] <humphreybc> donri: more or less but there are a lot of cool things going to be happening for 10.10
[07:42] <donri> Sure, but still.
[07:42] <artnay> donri: some come from ubuntu-docs but basically it has to be done from scratch
[07:48] <donri> What happened to website translations?
[07:49] <godbyk> humphreybc: okay, I've created a couple new series.
[07:49] <artnay> donri: some were removed obviously
[07:49] <godbyk> Now I guess people need to bzr branch lp:ubuntu-manual/lucid-2e to start working on the second edition or something.
[07:50] <donri> But there's no language selection anymore?
[07:50] <donri> Which would be good, if it would autodetect language instead. But only English.
[07:51] <godbyk> donri: I think it should autodetect.
[07:51] <godbyk> Does it not?
[07:51] <donri> Not for me.
[07:54] <godbyk> I'll take a look at it sometime.
[07:54] <godbyk> (too many things on my plate right this sec.)
[07:59] <donri> Sure.
[08:32] <humphreybc> i've got to head off
[08:32] <humphreybc> see ya'll later
[08:35] <artnay> I can confirm that, http://ubuntu-manual.org/ doesn't autodetect browser language (or does not comply) so the page is displayed in English
[08:35] <godbyk> artnay: I think the ubuntu-manual.org doesn't auto-detect.  I think you have to manually select there.
[08:36] <godbyk> artnay: but I thought that test.ubuntu-manual.org was supposed to autodetect.  I may be wrong, though.
[08:36] <artnay> godbyk: but there's no selection. test site has but the language is in English (if it bothers)
[08:37] <artnay> I mean the languages are in English... they could be translated just like what has been done with the live CD's language selection
[08:38] <donri> godbyk, test site seems to autodetect properly.
[08:39] <ubuntujenkins> morning all
[08:39] <godbyk> cool.
[08:39] <godbyk> hey, ubuntujenkins
[08:58] <godbyk> I'm chatting with the launchpad translator guys.  Trying to figure out how to make translating our manual easier.
[09:00] <ubuntujenkins> nice sounds like a good idea
[09:01] <godbyk> sadly, they've basically said, 'it doesn't do that. but the source is GPL, hint, hint.'
[09:01] <godbyk> how do you feel about working on another side project, ubuntujenkins? :)
[09:02] <ubuntujenkins> what are we trying to achive?
[09:02] <ubuntujenkins> I will give anything a go. what language is it in?
[09:05]  * ubuntujenkins only knows python vaguely but is willing to learn
[09:05] <godbyk> I'm not sure what Launchpad is written in.
[09:08] <ubuntujenkins> wow getting it means setting up the launchpad site on your computer
[09:08] <godbyk> lovely.
[09:09] <godbyk> One of the complaints I've had from translators is that whenever we fix a typo, they have to retranslate the entire paragraph.
[09:09] <godbyk> So I was chatting with the launchpad translation devs about how to improve that.
[09:10] <ubuntujenkins> which channel is this logged in? It  could be some interestingly hard work.
[09:10] <godbyk> It was in #launchpad.
[09:11] <godbyk> started just over an hour ago.
[09:11] <ubuntujenkins> ok i will have a look
[09:16] <godbyk> Hey, meho_r.  I incorporated most of your suggestions into this first edition of the manual.  If you'd like to continue your edits, I'll look at them for the second edition.
[09:17] <meho_r> Hi, godbyk. So, fist ed. is frozen, no more changes?
[09:18] <godbyk> meho_r: correct. it's frozen so the translators can start doing their thing.
[09:18] <godbyk> we're going to continue editing for the second edition.
[09:18] <meho_r> when is the 2nd ed. due?
[09:18] <godbyk> we'll be adding some content that we didn't have time to finish writing as well.
[09:18] <godbyk> no deadlines for the second edition yet.
[09:19] <godbyk> presumably before 10.10 is released. ;-)
[09:19] <meho_r> Hehe, OK
[09:19] <meho_r> that's a lot of time then
[09:19] <godbyk> so it's not a huge rush for the second edition yet. I just wanted to let you know if you were bored and wanted to edit some more to feel free.
[09:20] <meho_r> Not actually bored, I hardly find time for absolutely anything beside job+study
[09:20] <meho_r> but I will find some for manual ;)
[09:22] <meho_r> how large the branch is? Should it be more useful to do edit directly or this way, in .pdf?
[09:24] <godbyk> The current branch is about 160 MB to download.
[09:24] <godbyk> Most of that is the website, translations, images, and other files that you don't *really* need.
[09:25] <ubuntujenkins> we could do with giving the website its own branch
[09:26] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: I agree.
[09:26] <godbyk> In fact, I'll see if I can set that up.
[09:26] <godbyk> Actually, I'll do that one tomorrow. :)
[09:27] <ubuntujenkins> we should warn daker first
[09:27] <godbyk> yeah.
[09:27] <godbyk> and I'll need to be awake enough to change things around on the web server, too.
[09:28] <ubuntujenkins> is it launchpad that works out the diffs between the two potfiles?
[09:29] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: launchpad doesn't do that at all.  that's the bit I'm interested in exploring.
[09:29] <godbyk> launchpad only looks at the current pot file.
[09:29] <godbyk> it doesn't do any comparison at all.
[09:30] <ubuntujenkins> I think its the comparison that we need to look at
[09:30] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: agreed.
[09:30] <ubuntujenkins> how is the pot generated?
[09:31] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: The pot is generated (in our case) using po4a.
[09:31] <ubuntujenkins> right po4a it is
[09:31]  * ubuntujenkins goes to look for the source
[09:31] <godbyk> Prepare yourself: it's perl.
[09:32] <meho_r> godbyk, I think I'll continue to work on .pdf for now ;) Any particular version or the one from ubuntu-manual.org will do?
[09:33] <ubuntujenkins> nice another language to learn
[09:33] <godbyk> meho_r: you can grab the one from the website for now.  it should be ubuntu-manual-beta.pdf.
[09:34] <meho_r> godbyk, OK, will do. BTW, what about style guide? Is it finished?
[09:34] <godbyk> meho_r: it's not finished, but what I've got so far is at http://files.ubuntu-manual.org/style-guide.pdf
[09:34] <godbyk> I'll continue to work on it and upload revisions to that same url.  so you may wish to check back periodically.
[09:35] <godbyk> meho_r: if you have suggestions for the style guide, feel free to let me know, too.
[09:35] <meho_r> Great, thanks.
[09:35] <godbyk> it's currently a slightly modified handout I wrote about using LaTeX in our project.
[09:35] <godbyk> so it's pretty heavy on the latex side and light on the style side right now.
[09:35] <meho_r> :)
[09:41] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: I will look into it when i have more time, I am going to test the live cd and try and do some revision today.
[09:41] <ubuntujenkins> be back in a nit
[09:41] <ubuntujenkins> *bit
[09:46] <godbyk> Okay, everyone. I'm off to bed. See you later!
[10:08] <ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: ping
[10:11] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: I hope your internet stays up for the next 4 hours, as i have started the upload.
[10:12] <godbyk-android> It's a server in california, not my home internet
[10:12] <ubuntujenkins> are thats ok then
[10:12] <godbyk-android> Though it was offline a bit earlier for some reason.
[10:12] <godbyk-android> Why is the upload so slow anyway?
[10:13] <ubuntujenkins> I am at home and because of where i live the internet is slow. I did expect it to be allot quicker than it is. If i was at uni it would be a lot better
[10:16] <ubuntujenkins> wow i have just speed tested my internet and it has got a whole lot slower since last time.
[10:38] <danyR> good muorning everyone! i'm portuguese (portugal) Ubuntu Manual translataor and i've checked out the builds page and today's build failed
[10:39] <danyR> I've checked the log and the error seems to be in a specific string, but all seems to be correctly translation. help?
[10:43] <danyR> correctly translated*
[10:57] <ubuntujenkins> danyR: just going to have a look and see if i can fix it
[11:03] <danyR> ubuntujenkins: thanks :)
[11:11] <ubuntujenkins> danyR: I have found one error but as it is in spanish i don't know where the margin note ends where should I put the missing } so that it all make sense ?
[11:11] <ubuntujenkins> "\\marginnote{Embora graficamente modernos \\gls{ambientes de trabalho} "
[11:11] <ubuntujenkins> "tenham geralmente substituído os primeiros sistemas operativos baseados na "
[11:11] <ubuntujenkins> "linha de comando, esta pode ainda ser uma rápida e eficiente forma de se "
[11:11] <ubuntujenkins> "realizarem muitas tarefas. Veja \\chaplink{ch:command-line} para mais "
[11:11] <ubuntujenkins> "informação, e \\chaplink{ch:the-ubuntu-desktop} para aprender mais sobre o \\"
[11:11] <ubuntujenkins> "gls{GNOME} e outros ambientes de trabalho."
[11:12] <danyR> ubuntujenkins: portuguese. That was the string I've checked, but it all seemed ok
[11:12] <danyR> let me double-check
[11:13] <ubuntujenkins> sorry portuguese there is a missing  } in it
[11:13] <ubuntujenkins> it belongs to the first \marginnote
[11:14] <danyR> ubuntujenkins: my bad, it was me who translated it.
[11:14] <ubuntujenkins> don't worry where does it need to go?
[11:15] <danyR> so the } is right after the full stop
[11:15] <danyR> last one
[11:15] <ubuntujenkins> so it should be ....
[11:15] <ubuntujenkins> "\\marginnote{Embora graficamente modernos \\gls{ambientes de trabalho} "
 "tenham geralmente substituído os primeiros sistemas operativos baseados na "
 "linha de comando, esta pode ainda ser uma rápida e eficiente forma de se "
 "realizarem muitas tarefas. Veja \\chaplink{ch:command-line} para mais "
 "informação, e \\chaplink{ch:the-ubuntu-desktop} para aprender mais sobre o \\"
 "gls{GNOME} e outros ambientes de trabalho.}"
[11:15] <danyR> yep
[11:15] <danyR> I've corrected the string
[11:16] <ubuntujenkins> I will try and fix the other errors now
[11:16] <danyR> ubuntujenkins: it there's something i can help with... :)
[11:16] <ubuntujenkins> I will find out in a second, just need to work out what the error is an if i can solve it
[11:24] <ubuntujenkins> danyR: I can't fix the other errors, but the manual now builds a full length version is here http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5012868/ubuntu-manual-pt.pdf  . I will ask the latex expert when he is awake, as i think they are glossary  related.
[11:26] <danyR> ubuntujenkins: tks, tks, tks. we still have some issues to figure out, mainly related with the chapter linking, but we'll sort that out between the translatores
[11:26] <danyR> translators*
[11:27] <ubuntujenkins> ok, If you have any laytex questions it is better to ask in the utc evening then our expert is awake.
[11:28] <danyR> ubuntujenkins: ok, thanks again.
[11:28] <ubuntujenkins> no problem it will hopefully get updated on the server by tomorrow
[11:28] <ubuntujenkins> I  don't have control of the sever
[12:22] <artnay> What is Linux? section never answers the question (too late for bug raport, eh?)
[12:24] <ubuntujenkins> artnay: file a bug so that it can be included in lucid edition 2
[12:49] <popey> uhm
[12:49] <popey> the bugs link on the site seems broken
[12:50] <ubuntujenkins> what links popey
[12:50] <popey> http://ubuntu-manual.org/?bugs
[12:50] <popey> http://ubuntu-manual.org/bugs
[12:50] <popey> from the front page
[12:50] <popey> "Submit any bugs or errata here."
[12:52] <ubuntujenkins> very strange popey I am not sure where it is suppose to link to I will get the right person t o fix it when they wake up, please file your bug here https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual
[12:52] <ubuntujenkins> I asume it is a bug with the manual and not quickshot
[12:54] <popey> i didnt have a bug to file initially, i was just about to read the latest version and a) see if bugs I have previously filed have been addressed, and b) file new ones
[12:54] <popey> its frustrating not being able to see if my bugs are progressing
[12:54] <popey> given the build hasn't been updated since 729 on 31/3/10
[13:01] <ubuntujenkins> popey: It will not have changed since then as that was the writing freeze but this is the latest build http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2697891/main.pdf
[13:01] <popey> 404
[13:02] <ubuntujenkins> ok give it a second it might not have uploaded
[13:06] <popey> still nothing ubuntujenkins
[13:08] <ubuntujenkins> I will ping you when it works popey I am uploading some stuff to the manual server as well and my internet is slow at home
[13:08]  * ubuntujenkins uploading the live cd takes 4 hours
[13:09] <ubuntujenkins> thats how slow the internet is
[13:12] <ubuntujenkins> popey: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5012868/main.pdf (new link i changed the dropbox that it was in)
[13:12] <popey> thanks
[13:14] <popey> has the licensing been worked out?
[13:20] <ubuntujenkins> popey: it has the finla e-mail on it was
[13:20] <ubuntujenkins> An update on my conversation with Diane about license translations. The Creative Commons acknowledges the lack of linguistically translated versions of the manual -- their process for porting to specific jurisdictions is actually to first linguistically translate, and then adapt to the jurisdiction's laws.
[13:20] <ubuntujenkins> Diane will work to set up a method for receiving and tracking unofficial linguistic translations of the manual -- and should have something for us within a week or so. Before the release of this manual, we may be able to get access to some translations of the unported license for some of the languages. For other languages, we would include the English version and a link to a (soon to be established) page th
[13:20] <ubuntujenkins> at will list multilingual versions in development.
[13:20] <ubuntujenkins> On our side, we will commit to having the CC versions of the translations to be the official ones (meaning that if we help with the translations, we submit our changes to CC and have them host it, and then copy the version that they host). We will also commit to including the latest versions of the licenses whenever we publish an edition. I think these are fair constraints, since it improves the likelihood
[13:20] <ubuntujenkins> that the license will be considered valid by some jurisdiction if challenged.
[13:20]  * ubuntujenkins sorry for the spam
[13:35] <popey> ubuntujenkins: i was more thinking about the compatibility between the license used by U-M and the license used by the documentation wiki
[13:35] <popey> given chunks of the documentation wiki have been copy/pasted into the manual
[13:38] <ubuntujenkins> popey I have no clue on that at all, ben hasn't replied to the e-mail on it yet.
[13:39] <popey> yeah, thats what's worrying me
[13:41] <ubuntujenkins> lets hope it all gets sorted, we are not popular with the docs team anyway so this doesn't help
[13:46] <popey> INDEED
[13:46] <popey> er -caps
[14:24] <ubuntujenkins> anyone in here speak dutch?
[15:07] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk, godbyk its on the server :-)
[17:11] <ubuntujenkins> the channel is very quite today
[17:20] <thorwil> QUITE, OH YES!
[17:21]  * thorwil hunts for dinner
[17:29] <titeuf_87> Hey ubuntujenkins, did you take the Dutch screenshots?
[17:30] <ubuntujenkins> no titeuf_87 I was reviewing them, and noticed they looked odd
[17:30] <ubuntujenkins> the majority of them are all in arabic when they should be dutch
[17:34] <titeuf_87> A quick google tells me that people in Aruba also speak Dutch, I think that locale was selected for making the screenshots.
[17:37] <ubuntujenkins> the nl_AW (aruba) local causes quickshot to crash,
[17:37] <titeuf_87> Yup, looking at that now.
[17:38] <ubuntujenkins> I don't understand how the arabic ones ended up being labled as nl?
[17:43] <titeuf_87> I just tried logging in with an user using the nl_AW locale and it looks like standard Dutch.
[17:45] <titeuf_87> I also can't simulate your error that you have, quickshot seems to run just fine here using that language.
[17:46] <ubuntujenkins> strange you can't get that error  i ran it a couple of times to check. your not auto launching quickshot are you?
[17:46] <ubuntujenkins> *can
[17:46] <titeuf_87> I'm not.
[17:46] <ubuntujenkins> must be me then.
[17:47] <titeuf_87> Although I did try on Karmic. Give me a little bit to install Lucid in virtualbox and I'll see if that changes things.
[17:48] <ubuntujenkins> may be its the lucid.
[17:51] <Red_HamsterX> I just added a comemnt on the nl_AW thing.
[17:51] <Red_HamsterX> Also, yes, Aruba is a mix of Dutch and English.
[17:51] <Red_HamsterX> (My stepfather's from there)
[17:52] <titeuf_87> On karmic, the exact same thing works for me here.
[17:52] <ubuntujenkins> wheres the commet i don't see it
[17:52] <ubuntujenkins> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/quickshot/+bug/554861
[17:52] <manualbot> Launchpad bug 554861 in quickshot "Quickshot crashes on unknown locale" [Medium,Confirmed]
[17:53] <titeuf_87> It's on that one: https://bugs.launchpad.net/quickshot/+bug/556532
[17:53] <manualbot> Launchpad bug 556532 in quickshot "screenshots don't have the correct language code" [Undecided,New]
[17:53] <Red_HamsterX> It might take a few minutes to appear.
[17:53] <Red_HamsterX> Launchpad seems to collect all changes so it only pushes out a single e-mail.
[17:54] <ubuntujenkins> ok read it on the other bug, any idea why the screenshots are being labeld with the wrong language code?
[17:55] <ubuntujenkins> I must be a lucid thing
[17:56] <Red_HamsterX> I can't see anything that would make our code go from nl_AW to ar_*.
[17:56] <ubuntujenkins> stuff isd
[17:56] <Red_HamsterX> AW != AR, so that can't be it.
[17:56] <ubuntujenkins> stuff is being taken in an ar_* but showing as nl on screenshots.ubuntu-manual.org
[17:57] <Red_HamsterX> My tests uploaded to ar just fine, though...
[17:57] <Red_HamsterX> Though, granted, that was with the PPA.
[17:58] <Red_HamsterX> I only tested he and de from the LiveCD.
[17:58] <ubuntujenkins> all of the versions should be the same the only changes since are server based
[17:58]  * Red_HamsterX boots into ar to check what Python says.
[17:59] <ubuntujenkins> new live cd will be up today but it has to be put on a usb/dvd its just to big
[17:59] <Ddorda> is there a Live CD with quickshot, that has the latest theme update?
[17:59] <ubuntujenkins> Ddorda: the line i just wrote, you can still take them with the old cd. I am waiting for godby-k to wake up to update the server
[18:00] <Ddorda> ubuntujenkins: I don't have a DVD, and it's a pentium 2, so no boot from USB
[18:00] <Ddorda> :(
[18:02] <ubuntujenkins> I thought it might be a problem, we ran out of stuff to remove form the cd. More programs got translated. Just use the old cd as we have a work around to fix those images
[18:03] <Ddorda> ubuntujenkins: my friend has a DVD, he will make the screenshots as soon as you'll upload the image
[18:04] <ubuntujenkins> ok thanks Ddorda I will let you know when it is uploaded it is only 19mb bigger than a cd
[18:04] <Red_HamsterX> ubuntujenkins, how much space would you need to free?
[18:04] <Red_HamsterX> Ah.
[18:06] <ubuntujenkins> its very anoying we have removed anything and everything possible i had godby-k  and all of #ubuntu-uk hunting space out
[18:06] <ubuntujenkins> I checked every screenshot still works and i did some for tamil
[18:06] <titeuf_87> Do you actually put all the language packs on the cd too?
[18:07] <ubuntujenkins> all the ones we translate to
[18:07] <titeuf_87> Maybe skip a single language and let people install that from the net?
[18:08] <Red_HamsterX> ubuntujenkins, ufw, tk8.4, telnet, whois, tcpdump, tcpd, tcl8.4, popularity-contest, ntfsprogs...
[18:09] <ubuntujenkins> might do that next time, It takes 4 hours for me to upload it and i did it this morning. it would be anoying if you didn't do all the screenshots in one go
[18:09] <ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: which list are you looking at?
[18:09] <Red_HamsterX> Oh, wait. That'd be from an older version.
[18:09] <Red_HamsterX> Never mind.
[18:10] <ubuntujenkins> and so much stuff is down as a dependency of something or other its insane
[18:10] <ubuntujenkins> off topic but how do you tell if a cron job has run?
[18:11] <Red_HamsterX> It should send mail to its owner.
[18:12] <Red_HamsterX> Type 'mail' and see if naything comes up.
[18:12] <ubuntujenkins> nothing came up "No mail......"
[18:13] <Red_HamsterX> Maybe it only sends in the event of a problem, or maybe it's different under Ubuntu.
[18:13] <Red_HamsterX> You could make your script write a line to some file.
[18:13] <ubuntujenkins> just doing that now
[18:14] <ubuntujenkins> I thought off it as you typed it
[18:14] <ubuntujenkins> thanks
[18:24] <titeuf_87> Bleh, virtualbox doesn't want to boot lucid :(
[18:24] <titeuf_87> Or if it does, it certainly takes longer than 10 minutes for it which seems horribly slow.
[18:27] <ubuntujenkins> I have no problems with lucid in virtual box, booting our live cd anyway. I have lucid on my main machine
[19:02] <thorwil> unbelievable. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+bug/556153
[19:02] <manualbot> Launchpad bug 556153 in ubuntu-manual "Title should include LTS " [Undecided,New]
[19:27] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk:  ping
[20:11] <godbyk> thorwil: I know. Can you verify if that's true or not?
[20:11] <godbyk> thorwil: Also, have you had a chance to test inkscape with the arabic text?
[20:11] <thorwil> godbyk: had a very busy day ... have to do that now
[20:11] <godbyk> thorwil: no problem. just curious.
[20:12] <thorwil> godbyk: verify what? the simple fact that nobody thought of the "LTS" until now shows how damn clear and important it is ;)
[20:12] <godbyk> thorwil: lol.  precisely.
[20:13] <godbyk> hey, ubuntujenkins. I'm copying over your ISO image now.
[20:13] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: was there anything else you needed?
[20:14] <ubuntujenkins> thanks godbyk , I have also made some fixes in a couple of po files. what is the best way to update everything with the fixes. Also whats wrong with the glossary in some languages
[20:14]  * ubuntujenkins silly internet
[20:15] <ubuntujenkins> pt and gl langauges i only inserted a } on each on
[20:15] <ubuntujenkins> *one
[20:16] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: the best way for now it to do the translation updates through launchpad.
[20:17] <godbyk> I'm in the middle of moving translations to their own branch.
[20:17] <thorwil> godbyk: what font did you use in that arabic pdf?
[20:17] <godbyk> thorwil: Scheherazade from ttf-sil-scheherazade
[20:18] <ubuntujenkins> ok godbyk I know one of them got updated by the person who asked for help this morning, let me know when you have moved them and i will update the translation there as well. Is there a quick way to find the string?
[20:18] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: as for the glossary entries, I'm guessing that they're translating the wrong parts, but I haven't looked yet.
[20:18] <thorwil> dng, don't have that one
[20:18] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: go to translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual, select the language, and there's a search box in the top right.
[20:19] <ubuntujenkins> thanks i did noy know that :-)
[20:19] <thorwil> godbyk: biolinum makes for a very different feel with this text, but i can copy-past either the good or bad examples from the pdf. they all look like the good example in inkscape
[20:19] <ubuntujenkins> let me know when you have moved them
[20:19] <thorwil> godbyk: except that 10.04 becomes 40.01
[20:21] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: ISO image links have been updated.
[20:22] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins_: ISO image links have been updated.
[20:22] <ubuntujenkins_> thanks does the website say dvd and not cd?
[20:23] <godbyk> thorwil: I didn't think biolinum had arabic support.
[20:23] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: I don't know if is mentions either.
[20:23] <godbyk> lemme look
[20:23] <godbyk> ah, says Live CD.
[20:23] <godbyk> should it now be Live DVD?
[20:23] <ubuntujenkins_> yes its 719mb
[20:23] <ubuntujenkins_> please
[20:23] <thorwil> arg! how the hell do i work with RTL text? selection behavior drives me crazy
[20:23] <ubuntujenkins_> I will do the wiki
[20:25] <godbyk> I just did the wiki
[20:25] <godbyk> also pushed the website.
[20:25] <komsas> one more change for a window buttons - http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/04/now-that-looks-familiar-buttons-switch.html
[20:25] <godbyk> should appear online in 5 minutes or so.
[20:27] <ubuntujenkins_> I changed the cd to dvd on the wiki
[20:28] <thorwil> godbyk: http://www.foopics.com/showfull/c2f7e02e7a82a22add66793f0e1ab086
[20:29] <godbyk> thorwil: nice!
[20:29] <godbyk> what font is that?
[20:31] <thorwil> godbyk: biolinum
[20:32] <ubuntujenkins_> komsas, thanks for the heads up we were aware of that
[20:32] <thorwil> godbyk: editing combined rtl/ltr text is wicked. with that said, i'm out, cya!
[20:32] <komsas> ubuntujenkins_: after post, I found this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+bug/553582
[20:32] <manualbot> Launchpad bug 553582 in quickshot "the window buttons have changed order again" [High,In progress]
[20:33] <ubuntujenkins_> that bug refers to the that change we were aware on friday
[20:33] <godbyk> rats, he left.
[20:34] <godbyk> biolinum doesn't have arabic. it's falling back on some other font.
[20:38] <ubuntujenkins> I will tell him if i see him
[20:38] <ubuntujenkins> Ddorda: the dvd is up
[20:39] <ubuntujenkins> ok all the translations are up to date
[20:39] <ubuntujenkins> as fare as errors are concerend
[20:44] <Ddorda> ubuntujenkins: may I have a link please?
[20:44] <ubuntujenkins> Ddorda: http://files.ubuntu-manual.org/quickshot/ubuntu-manual-quickshot-i386-0.0.82.iso
[20:49] <Ddorda> ubuntujenkins: thanks a lot
[20:50] <ubuntujenkins> no problem thank you for your work in translating etc
[20:51] <Ddorda> ubuntujenkins: have you seen we've done 20% in 2 days?
[20:51] <ubuntujenkins> thats really good Ddorda, you will be done by end of next week
[20:52] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: are you able to compile php soon please :-)
[20:52] <Ddorda> ubuntujenkins: not really, I must get back to learning soon, and I don't think there will be a lot of afford from the LoCo without me since Im very pushy about this subject
[20:53] <ubuntujenkins> Ddorda: you can still send e-mails in your break :-) . Good to see you are keen
[20:55] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: I'll try to work on that today.
[20:55] <ubuntujenkins> thanks, you are a busy person
[20:55] <godbyk> definitely. :)
[20:56] <Ddorda> yea, my LoCo was in a very bad status until the last month, so now we must prove our self, show we can get back to be on the top, I see this project as an huge chance so I do my best :D
[21:18]  * ubuntujenkins looks into po4a
[21:18] <dutchie> don't go there, it's 1500 lines of perl black magic
[21:20] <ubuntujenkins> well kevin set me a challenge and it beats revision. I am asking a question on a channel with 5 people that has an moderator for 5 people
[21:21] <godbyk> dutchie: I warned him about it already. :)
[21:22] <godbyk> Hey, dutchie, do you know what "No import target selected yet." means?  How can I get this import queue to start processing? https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1/+imports
[21:23] <godbyk> dutchie: I'm trying to move the translations over to the lucid-e1 series/branch so that main can be released for further development.
[21:23] <dutchie> godbyk: I'd guess that it doesn't know what target it wants to import into
[21:23] <godbyk> dutchie: any idea how I can fix it?
[21:24] <dutchie> set an import target?
[21:25] <dutchie> have you re-jigged the series then?
[21:25] <dutchie> aha, yes
[21:28] <ubuntujenkins> dutchie, godbyk can you please help me in oftc #po4a i am struggling to explain, there is a reason i am an engineer and not an english student.
[21:29] <dutchie> don't expect me to help, I'm a mathematician
[21:33] <godbyk> dutchie: yeah, I've created a couple new series.
[21:33]  * ubuntujenkins man this is confusing
[21:33] <godbyk> dutchie: I'm trying to get the translations pulled into the lucid-1e series so translators can work in that stable branch (i.e., string freeze).
[21:34] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: what are you discussing with the po4a folks?
[21:34] <dutchie> godbyk: as long as everything in po/ stays intact, we haven't lost anything
[21:34] <ubuntujenkins> if we need to look at po4a or not
[21:34] <ubuntujenkins> is it launchpad dutchie ?
[21:34] <godbyk> dutchie: right. the lucid-e1 branch is a copy of main.
[21:35] <dutchie> ubuntujenkins: it is
[21:35] <dutchie> we could do with launchpad not dropping fuzzy translations
[21:35] <ubuntujenkins> so we should be working on launchpad not po4a?
[21:36] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: can you point dutchie at the logs from my discussions with the launchpad translation devs?
[21:36] <dutchie> I think what would be useful would be something where projects could choose whether they wanted to keep fuzzy tranlations or not
[21:36] <godbyk> dutchie: they used to pull in fuzzy translations, but it was apparently worse than no pulling them in, so now they drop them.
[21:36] <godbyk> dutchie: I agree completely.
[21:37] <godbyk> I'm hoping that the fuzzy translations would be more useful for our longer strings (than they were for the typical short strings).
[21:37] <dutchie> well, it is open source now...
[21:38] <ubuntujenkins> do our po files give enought for the fuzzy strinsg all ready?
[21:38] <dutchie> should do
[21:38] <godbyk> I have no idea.
[21:38] <godbyk> dutchie: that's what the launchpad devs told me, too. :)
[21:38] <ubuntujenkins>  will look for that link in a second
[21:39] <ubuntujenkins> all the guy in po4a has done is confuse me
[21:39] <dutchie> I think po4a does fuzzy strings, but launchpad deletes them
[21:39] <godbyk> dutchie: here are the chat logs with the launchpad devs: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/04/06/%23launchpad.html
[21:39] <ubuntujenkins> http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/04/06/%23launchpad.html
[21:39] <godbyk> launchpad ignores/deletes fuzzy strings, yes.
[21:39] <ubuntujenkins> right ok now i understand back to launchpad source code
[21:40] <godbyk> dutchie: any idea how I can set the import target so those translations process?
[21:41] <ubuntujenkins> thansk for your help dutchie I was very confused
[21:41] <dutchie> godbyk: it may work automagically
[21:41] <dutchie> I'll have a look after I've looked through the logs from earlier
[21:42] <godbyk> it's been that way for the past 10+ hours. how long should it take, typically?
[21:42] <godbyk> k
[21:42] <dutchie> right, I've changed the translation focus
[21:43] <dutchie> I may have to do some reshuffling of my branches locally
[21:43] <ubuntujenkins> I will get the launchpad source code once i am back at uni i don't want to try on this slow connection.
[21:45] <godbyk> dutchie: for me it still says it's focused on main.
[21:45] <dutchie> yeah, same here
[21:45] <godbyk> Launchpad frightens and confuses me!
[21:46] <dutchie> maybe it'll sync itself up in a bit
[21:46]  * humphreybc is going to UDS
[21:46]  * humphreybc is happy!
[21:46] <godbyk> humphreybc: awesome!
[21:47] <dutchie> I am also of the opinion that the website code should be moved out to its own branch
[21:47] <godbyk> dutchie: I agree whole-heartedly.
[21:47] <humphreybc> dutchie: absolutely, isn't that what we have ubuntu-manual-website for?
[21:48] <godbyk> It's bloating our current branch.
[21:48] <dutchie> and it's bloated enough as it is
[21:48] <humphreybc> heh
[21:48] <humphreybc> my large PSD files probably don't help much
[21:49] <humphreybc> anyway, it's breakfast time here but I thought i'd pop in and let ya'll know
[21:49]  * humphreybc still thinks dutchie should harden up and fly from the UK 
[21:49] <godbyk> humphreybc: you should pop onto the ubuntu-docs mailing list and let 'em know. they're trying to set up some docs sessions.
[21:49] <dutchie> I don't even need to fly
[21:49] <dutchie> train'd be far easier
[21:49] <dutchie> iirc, it's not great timing
[21:50] <godbyk> can we attend remotely via irc or video or something?
[21:50] <ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: hello i had a question for you i was more thinking about the compatibility between the license used by U-M and the license used by the documentation wiki given chunks of the documentation wiki have been copy/pasted into the manual
[21:50]  * ubuntujenkins ^^^^ quotes popey
[21:50] <ubuntujenkins> I was also interested
[21:51] <dutchie> right, I'm going to give up watching this
[21:51] <ubuntujenkins> the doc team have a uds discussion on their mailing list
[21:51] <godbyk> I'm stepping away from translations and branches for a moment to compile php for quickshot.
[21:51] <ubuntujenkins> yey !
[21:51] <ubuntujenkins> thank you
[21:51] <godbyk> someone smarter than me should really step in and figure out the translations and branches and all that and just tell me how it all works. :-)
[21:52]  * dutchie sighs
[21:52]  * godbyk smiles
[21:53] <dutchie> this branch is not getting any smaller :(
[21:54] <ubuntujenkins> I have worked out when they removed fuzzy translations from launchpad
[21:54] <dutchie> [#########\          ]  54600KB   114KB/s | Fetching revisions:Inserting st
[21:54] <ubuntujenkins> ^functionality
[21:54] <godbyk> dutchie: yeah, it's 160 MB or more.
[21:55] <dutchie> shame bzr's progress bar is utterly uninformative too
[21:55] <ubuntujenkins> another thing for us to fix :P
[21:55] <godbyk> It'd not just a matter of allowing fuzzy translations.  We also want to highlight the differences between the original English string and the current English string and the original (fuzzy match) translation, so the translators can easily see what's changed and adjust the translation accordingly.
[21:56] <ubuntujenkins> once we allow fuzzy translations we can work on that
[21:57] <dutchie> godbyk: I'm wondering if it would be a good idea to rename "main" to lucid-e1 or whether it would just break everything horribly
[21:57] <godbyk> dutchie: good question.
[21:58] <godbyk> that's what I was trying to ascertain from the launchpad guys last night.
[21:58] <dutchie> especially as all the bugs/blueprints are targeted onto the main series
[21:59] <godbyk> dutchie: well, those won't be lucid-e1 anyway.
[22:00] <dutchie> why not/
[22:00] <godbyk> they'll get bumped to either e2 or maverick.
[22:00] <dutchie> oh, true
[22:00] <dutchie> doing this from the start would have been far easier
[22:00] <godbyk> e1 is a string freeze just for the translators.
[22:00] <godbyk> I agree completely.
[22:01] <godbyk> Unfortunately no one stepped forward to do it.
[22:01] <godbyk> And I didn't know how.
[22:01] <humphreybc> cough
[22:01] <humphreybc> :P
[22:01] <dutchie> I didn't even know the series thing existed
[22:01] <godbyk> yeah, the launchpad guys filled me in on that last night, too.
[22:01] <humphreybc> heh, we have the best launchpad knowledge ever
[22:02] <godbyk> I also know nothing of bzr or DVCSs. :)
[22:03] <godbyk> my other open source project uses svn and has me as the single developer, basically.  it's much easier. :)
[22:03] <dutchie> the problem with DVCSes is that once a big file has been added, it's there forevermore, and has to be downloaded every time
[22:05] <godbyk> I noticed that. Is there a way to purge the deleted files from the history or something?
[22:05] <godbyk> We also have half a dozen websites in there.
[22:07] <dutchie> I know
[22:07] <antileet> hi! Any quickshot devs here?
[22:08] <ubuntujenkins> antileet: whats up?
[22:08] <antileet> ubuntujenkins, Hi! I'm writing a tool to make tutorials with screenshots. I wanted to know how you guys work with different languages in programs
[22:08] <ubuntujenkins> antileet: did you send and e-mail to the doc team?
[22:08] <antileet> like if I want to change the language of a program, is there a way I can do that unobrusively from within my program - through gconf2 perhaps?
[22:09] <ubuntujenkins> we don't do that at the moment but.... let me find something
[22:09] <godbyk> antileet: We set the LANG environment variable before we run the program. This causes the program to run in that language.
[22:10] <ubuntujenkins> you can run a specific program like this
[22:10] <ubuntujenkins> To list all languages do:
[22:10] <ubuntujenkins> locale -a
[22:10] <ubuntujenkins> To launch in another language do (example):
[22:10] <ubuntujenkins> LANG=fr_CA.utf8 cheese
[22:10] <godbyk> antileet: If you're taking screenshots of the entire desktop, however, you need to set the language and then log out and back in again for it to take effect desktop-wide.
[22:10] <antileet> ubuntujenkins, Yeah. I did. The tutorial creation app
[22:10] <antileet> I tried setting an environment variable but it didn't seem to work
[22:10] <antileet> do I have to install seperate language packs or something?
[22:10] <ubuntujenkins> antileet: as go-dbyk said
[22:10] <godbyk> antileet: you will need to install the language packs for each of the languages you wish to see.
[22:10] <ubuntujenkins> antileet: yes you have to insatall alll of the language packs
[22:11]  * ubuntujenkins godbyk is a faster typer
[22:11] <godbyk> antileet: don't forget the language-pack-gnome-* packages.
[22:13] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: what's the function name that you want to use that requires me to recompile php?  (so I can read the docs and see what I need to compile in)
[22:13] <ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX!
[22:14] <antileet_> ubuntujenkins, So I have to specify the encoding too everytime I set the LANG env variable?
[22:14] <humphreybc> hey ubuntujenkins are you planning on making another quickshot CD/DVD soon?
[22:14] <antileet_> Is there a nice list with the real language names and the lang codes I can use to populate my combo box
[22:14] <ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: its on the website
[22:14] <humphreybc> on DVD?
[22:14] <humphreybc> so the one I have is a bit old?
[22:14] <ubuntujenkins> 719mb
[22:14] <ubuntujenkins> nnot hat old humphreybc
[22:14] <humphreybc> cute
[22:15] <humphreybc> is it going to be the end of the world if I burn 0.08?
[22:15] <humphreybc> which is 696mb
[22:16] <ubuntujenkins> antileet_: to set the whole desktop you have to log out and back in. you can do indvidual programs, look at the python-pybabel module that is what we are using for proper language names but its not ideal
[22:17] <antileet_> Okay. I'll try it out
[22:17] <ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: it does mean a bit more work as the window buttons change. in the new version. we have a script to change the buttons in the others but it will be a bit of work double checking the right ones change
[22:17] <antileet_> Btw, just read the ubuntu manual now. It's fantastic :) Wish it was around when I started out in '07
[22:17] <godbyk> have they updated the theme yet to reflect the new button order?
[22:18] <ubuntujenkins> yes godbyk thats in the new cd
[22:18] <dutchie> hmm
[22:18] <ubuntujenkins> antileet_: 2007? it only started in 2009
[22:18] <dutchie> godbyk: did you work out whether or not renaming main was a good idea?
[22:18] <ubuntujenkins> antileet_: you cna start helping noe
[22:18] <godbyk> dutchie: I haven't given it any other thought yet. if we rename main, it should probably be come either lucid-e2 or maverick.
[22:19] <godbyk> the translations should be in their own branch tucked away from all harm.
[22:19] <antileet_> ubuntujenkins, If it was around, getting started with ubuntu might've been a little easier. And I will start contributing to quickshot really soon. It seems awesome
[22:20] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: it sounds like pybabel is causing some problems. do we need to fix bugs in it or find a replacement or something?
[22:20] <ubuntujenkins> i see, we have BIG plans for the next release it was a bit of a get it done for this release. The next release is going to be great
[22:20] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: I am unsure we may need to update it/fix it a bit, yet to look.
[22:21] <godbyk> 'kay.
[22:21] <ubuntujenkins> we have a strange bug where the screenshots are being given the wrong langauge code
[22:21] <ubuntujenkins> whats my launchpad login?
[22:21] <titeuf_87> That's not a pybabel bug though.
[22:21] <ubuntujenkins> no but its strange, do we know how it is caused?
[22:22] <titeuf_87> Only bug in there we've hit is that it doesn't support some locales.
[22:22] <ubuntujenkins> we can update the language/locals
[22:22] <titeuf_87> No idea, it really is weird.
[22:23] <ubuntujenkins> I have three things for launchpad i don't know which one is which
[22:23] <ubuntujenkins> very weird then
[22:23] <titeuf_87> You just login with your email?
[22:25] <ubuntujenkins> I think so but then my name displays as luke-jennings but all my links are ubuntujenkins. I am setting up the whole of launchpad on my laptop
[22:26] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk its asking me to install texlive packages but i have the texlive download any suggestions or off to #launchpad-dev?
[22:26] <dutchie> godbyk: how's https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+series looking?
[22:27] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: what's making you install texlive packages?
[22:27] <ubuntujenkins> when i try and add launchpad code to my laptop
[22:28] <ubuntujenkins> Its only """"250mb""""" so i thought i would give it ago.
[22:28] <godbyk> dutchie: I think that looks right.  But I'm fairly clueless. :-)
[22:28] <ubuntujenkins> I also thik it looks right dutchie
[22:28] <ubuntujenkins> *think
[22:28] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: weird. wonder why launchpad wants tex installed.
[22:28] <godbyk> I'd ask on #launchpad-dev, I guess.
[22:28] <ubuntujenkins> kk i will , thanks
[22:34] <dutchie> I'm definitely of the opinion that we should move main -> lucid-e1
[22:34] <godbyk> I'm cool with that.
[22:34] <godbyk> dutchie: do it! :)
[22:35] <dutchie> humphreybc: any objections to the above?
[22:35] <godbyk> should we make a series just for the website or is that a completely separate project?  it should definitely be in its own branch.
[22:35] <dutchie> separate project
[22:35] <godbyk> 'kay.
[22:35] <godbyk> we should get that going while we're at it.
[22:37] <ubuntujenkins> there is already a project for the website
[22:37] <dutchie> OK, series renamed
[22:37] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: true. do we have access to it?
[22:37] <ubuntujenkins> https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-website
[22:37] <ubuntujenkins> erm....
[22:38] <ubuntujenkins> daker set it up the maintainer is the ubuntu manual team
[22:38] <godbyk> I was going to pester daker about it today, but haven't seen him.
[22:38] <godbyk> Cool.
[22:38] <godbyk> So we should be able to move the website stuff over.
[22:38] <ubuntujenkins> o talking of website po-pey pointed out that the bug link on the front page goes no where
[22:38] <godbyk> I vote we killall the sites we're not using.
[22:39] <godbyk> Copy the countdown page into daker-test/ and make that the new site.
[22:39] <humphreybc> godbyk, why are we making the countdown the new site?
[22:39] <godbyk> humphreybc: we're not. we're making test the new site. but we need to copy the countdown page over. (I think it's not in the -test/ site)
[22:40] <humphreybc> ah righto
[22:40] <humphreybc> i'm with you
[22:40] <dutchie> \o/ translations have survived the reorganisation
[22:40] <humphreybc> success!
[22:40] <humphreybc> our series chart looks quite impressive now
[22:41] <humphreybc> so have we copied across everything from main into maverick so we can keep working on it?
[22:41] <humphreybc> and also, I believe there is a bit in around desktop currently that has the wrong button order (now that they've changed it)
[22:41] <humphreybc> I think we have to change that stuff
[22:42] <dutchie> OK, I think all the series are now up to date
[22:43] <godbyk> dutchie:  the translations should be pretty hardy right now since launchpad will now pull in translations from other series and projects if the string matches.
[22:43] <dutchie> yeah
[22:46] <dutchie> I reckon we should leave it for a few hours to see if things get auto-updated
[22:47] <godbyk> true.
[22:47] <godbyk> dutchie: did the translations page ever update to point to the new series and did the translations cross over?
[22:47] <dutchie> godbyk: yes and eys
[22:47] <dutchie> er, yes
[22:47] <dutchie> http://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual
[22:48] <godbyk> dutchie: awesome! Wonder when Galician pulled so far ahead.
[22:49] <dutchie> bloody meerkats
[22:49] <dutchie> http://www.comparethemeerkat.com/
[22:50] <dutchie> the maverick manual is going to work out one hell of a lot better, I reckon
[22:51] <godbyk> dutchie: in a LOT of ways, yes. :-)
[22:51] <dutchie> now we've worked out what we're doing
[22:52] <godbyk> and we're starting to get all of our tools in place to help out, too.
[22:55] <ubuntujenkins> we could do with a few more people
[22:55]  * ubuntujenkins loves two instances of dropbox and a hidden icon
[22:57] <godbyk> we may get some more people once everyone sees what we've been working on.
[22:57] <godbyk> and once we have more solid plans laid out for future work.
[22:57] <dutchie> and once we've worked out how to get along with the docs team
[22:57] <ubuntujenkins> I hope so, nice to get more people involved. I want to get along with the doc team
[22:58] <dutchie> so do I
[23:00] <dutchie> ooh, the template has imported for maverick
[23:02] <dutchie> and LP has set it as the translation focus :|
[23:05] <ubuntujenkins> doh!
[23:07] <humphreybc> i'm going offline as people fix our internet
[23:11] <dutchie> ah, that's where all my internet has gone
[23:11] <dutchie> downloading two branches of u-m simultaneously
[23:12] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: have we filled a bug about the incomplete packages of tex live in lucid?
[23:13] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: I haven't. I don't know what the state of those packages are.
[23:13] <ubuntujenkins> also IF i can, any objections to me doing a ppa for people to use on the next release
[23:15] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: maybe. ask me about it a bit later (say, after I've finished compiling php). :-)  There are some issues with that that we'll want to clear up.
[23:15] <ubuntujenkins> ok
[23:15] <godbyk> for instance, most distributions (including debian and ubuntu) don't include the tlmgr program because it allows you to install tex files without going through synaptic/dpkg/whatever.
[23:15] <dutchie> ubuntujenkins: ppa for ubuntu manual?
[23:16] <godbyk> if we get all those issues resolved, I'm happy to try to maintain a texlive ppa.
[23:16] <ubuntujenkins> no for texlive
[23:16] <dutchie> that sounds fun
[23:16] <ubuntujenkins> ern that might be fun i had forgotten about that
[23:16] <godbyk> loads, I'm sure.
[23:17] <godbyk> the problem I have with the debian/ubuntu packages is that they don't keep things up to date.
[23:17] <dutchie> I know, who cares about stability?
[23:17] <dutchie> :P
[23:17] <godbyk> dutchie: or bug fixes. :-)
[23:17] <dutchie> they get backported
[23:17] <dutchie> (in theory)
[23:18] <godbyk> yeah, right! which is why ubuntu and debian were still running tex live 2007. :)
[23:18] <dutchie> lucid has TL 2009
[23:18] <ubuntujenkins> 2009 in lucid
[23:18]  * dutchie checks debian
[23:18] <godbyk> yeah, finally, but it's also out of date by now as new packages are dropped into texlive all the time.
[23:18] <ubuntujenkins> and it is 1gb smaller
[23:19] <dutchie> 2009 in squeeze
[23:19] <dutchie> and sid
[23:19] <ubuntujenkins> bet it doesn't work for us :P
[23:19] <dutchie> it doesn't
[23:20] <dutchie> due to lack of ccicons
[23:20] <ubuntujenkins> lack of what?
[23:20] <dutchie> a latex package
[23:20] <ubuntujenkins> I see
[23:20]  * ubuntujenkins is downloading the whole of the launchpad source
[23:21] <dutchie> might have to leave that one overnight
[23:21] <ubuntujenkins> I hope not i am on a download limit at home
[23:21] <dutchie> did it not occur to you that it could be quite big?
[23:22] <godbyk> ccicons has been around since december of last year.
[23:22] <ubuntujenkins> meh as long as i don't go over it two months in a row, its suppose to be 250 mb
[23:22] <godbyk> 250 MEGAbytes? Not gigabytes?
[23:23] <ubuntujenkins> I was just double checking that now "The source tree is about 150Mb, although the total size of the repository you'll download is about 280Mb, as you're getting the full history with it."
[23:23] <ubuntujenkins> I was worried as that is the same size as my hard disk
[23:24] <dutchie> ...
[23:24] <dutchie> you have a 250 MB hard disk?
[23:24] <ubuntujenkins> 250GB!
[23:25] <ubuntujenkins> a 250mb disk with text live on and ubuntu that would be so cool. we could try for a quickshot floppy then :P
[23:25] <godbyk> ah, that's more reasonable. :)
[23:25]  * godbyk is compiling dependencies of dependencies for php.
[23:26] <Ddorda> godbyk: using LFS or something? :P
[23:26] <godbyk> Ddorda: by hand. compiling a new version of php5 (with some extra modules) for my web server.
[23:26] <godbyk> just so the quickshot guys can create a zip file. :-P
[23:27] <Ddorda> godbyk: there's no PPA or something?
[23:27] <godbyk> Ddorda: I don't have root. It's a shared server.
[23:28] <Ddorda> godbyk: oh.. I see
[23:29] <ubuntujenkins> we are working to remove the dependency for the next release.
[23:30] <ubuntujenkins> artnay: please keep me informed on how your project gets on
[23:38] <Red_HamsterX> ubuntujenkins, 'sup?
[23:38] <Red_HamsterX> Oh, the --with-zip option, godbyk.
[23:38] <Red_HamsterX> Which you've probably found already.
[23:39] <ubuntujenkins> thanks he may have worked it out now
[23:39] <godbyk> Red_HamsterX: yeah, I found it.  compiling all the dependencies now.
[23:39] <Red_HamsterX> If you just build with whatever flags Ubuntu's package uses, we'd be guaranteed 100% interoperability.
[23:39] <Red_HamsterX> But Zip's all we really need.
[23:39] <ubuntujenkins> launchpad has 10633 revisons
[23:39] <Red_HamsterX> WEAK!
[23:40] <dutchie> reason #42 for removing the website from the main manual branch: extra conflicts when I merge the translations
[23:41] <dutchie> that does it
[23:41] <dutchie> I'm changing the translations workflow
[23:42] <godbyk> Red_HamsterX: can you find the arguments they pass to ./configure for php in ubuntu?
[23:42] <godbyk> dutchie: what's your workflow?  I've just been downloading the tarball and extracting them and committing them and pushing.
[23:42] <dutchie> godbyk: merging from the branch it exports to
[23:42] <dutchie> more trouble than it's worth
[23:43] <godbyk> dutchie: ah, sounds like it. especially if you're not keeping your branch synced with main
[23:44] <dutchie> especially when there are 70 conflicts every single time
[23:46] <dutchie> right, time to go through and update all the bugs and blueprints and things to point to the right milestone
[23:47] <ubuntujenkins> dutchie: noooooo we will get loads of spam mail :P
[23:48] <dutchie> there don't seem to be many
[23:48] <Red_HamsterX> godbyk, http://paste.ubuntu.com/410286/
[23:49] <ubuntujenkins> thats not that many options :D
[23:49] <Red_HamsterX> (Not filtered to remove things that don't apply to non-Debian environments)
[23:50] <Red_HamsterX> (Which is, like, half of that)
[23:52] <godbyk> Red_HamsterX: thanks.
[23:57] <godbyk> I'll be back in a bit. I'm going to run to the grocery store.
[23:58]  * ubuntujenkins now has the whole of the launchpad source, how ever i have no clue how to use it