[14:02] <NCommander> #startmeeting
[14:02] <MootBot> Meeting started at 08:02. The chair is NCommander.
[14:02] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[14:02] <davidm> Hello NCommander
[14:02] <dyfet> hello
[14:02]  * ericm waves to all
[14:02]  * NCommander apologies for being tardy, laptop decided to fsck itself
[14:02]  * JamieBennett is here
[14:03]  * GrueMaster is present and/or accounted for.
[14:03] <NCommander> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100406
[14:03] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/20100406
[14:03] <NCommander> [topic] Action Item Review
[14:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  Action Item Review
[14:04] <NCommander> [topic] cooloney to get karmic-proposed imx51 kernel with NEON fix in
[14:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  cooloney to get karmic-proposed imx51 kernel with NEON fix in
[14:05] <NCommander> No cooloney I guess
[14:05] <JamieBennett> lets move on then
[14:05] <plars> well
[14:05] <anmar> NCommander: does that include the backport FEC ethernet driver?
[14:05] <plars> I know a bit about what was going on there
[14:05] <NCommander> anmar: not sure
[14:05] <NCommander> plars: if you want to fill us in
[14:05] <plars> it's still in progress... there's a kernel in proposed, with the new FEC driver
[14:06] <plars> however, there was a regression in this updated driver, that can have a performance impact under load
[14:06] <cooloney> i am here
[14:06] <plars> it does, however, fix the initial problem
[14:06] <cooloney> sorry
[14:06] <NCommander> cooloney: np
[14:06] <plars> no worries, just filling them in on the imx51 karmic kernel that you are working on
[14:06] <cooloney> plars: thanks a lot
[14:07] <plars> you have anything to add? did that sound reasonable as a summary?
[14:07] <cooloney> the kernel in proposed for karmic is ok for neon fix
[14:08] <cooloney> and smb pinged the pitti to accept it.
[14:08] <cooloney> but for fec driver performance impact
[14:08] <cooloney> i am still working on that
[14:08] <NCommander> [topic] NCommander to extend invite to ericm and amitk to report on kernel status
[14:08] <MootBot> New Topic:  NCommander to extend invite to ericm and amitk to report on kernel status
[14:08] <plars> hmm, I marked it verification-failed because of the regression.  I would not think we would want to accept it as is
[14:09] <ericm> ok, mlv-dove topics today
[14:09] <NCommander> I forgot to ping amitk, but ericm is here
[14:09] <NCommander> so c/o
[14:09] <NCommander> [topic] plars to follow up with crimsun on the sound bug and report back
[14:09] <MootBot> New Topic:  plars to follow up with crimsun on the sound bug and report back
[14:09] <ericm> 1. Karmic X0 support, which I'd guess should be necessary for us to get it in right?
[14:09] <cooloney> plars: right, i also found the same impact on lucid
[14:09] <plars> done, but still in progress
[14:09] <JamieBennett> NCommander: slow down
[14:10] <NCommander> ericm: we'll go over the kernel status in the standing item later
[14:10] <ericm> NCommander, ok
[14:10] <NCommander> plars: why is the sound bug still in progress?
[14:10] <plars> so sound is still broken,  but still being worked on
[14:10] <plars> hmm... because it hasn't been fixed yet? :)
[14:11] <NCommander> plars: oh, you were saying done to following up :-)
[14:11] <plars> NCommander: right
[14:11] <GrueMaster> crimsun and I have been working on this all last week.  We now think it is related to arm specific code in pulseaudio.
[14:11] <GrueMaster> crimsun is investigating further.
[14:11] <plars> so removing .pulse seems to workaround a lot of the issues, but not all
[14:11] <NCommander> GrueMaster: ARM specific code in pulse? Last time I looked there wasn't a lot, and that could easily be checked by forcing a fallback to the C code
[14:12] <GrueMaster> Did that yesterday.
[14:12] <GrueMaster> That's how we know it is arm specific code.
[14:12] <NCommander> GrueMaster: ugh *grumble*
[14:12] <NCommander> GrueMaster: keep us informed, we want a working pulse
[14:12] <GrueMaster> yep
[14:13] <NCommander> [action] GrueMaster and plars to continue to keep working with crimsun on ARM PulseAudio
[14:13] <MootBot> ACTION received:  GrueMaster and plars to continue to keep working with crimsun on ARM PulseAudio
[14:13] <NCommander> [topic] asac to upload libplist with -marm
[14:13] <MootBot> New Topic:  asac to upload libplist with -marm
[14:14] <JamieBennett> asac doesn't seem to be around, does anyone know if this was done?
[14:14]  * NCommander is looked at LP ATM
[14:15] <NCommander> No, it wasn't
[14:15] <JamieBennett> c/o
[14:15] <NCommander> I don't see an outstanding bug for this either
[14:15] <NCommander> [actoin] asac to upload libplist with -marm
[14:15] <NCommander> [action] asac to upload libplist with -marm
[14:15] <MootBot> ACTION received:  asac to upload libplist with -marm
[14:15] <NCommander> [topic] asac and dmart to get firefox rendering issue upstreamed
[14:15] <MootBot> New Topic:  asac and dmart to get firefox rendering issue upstreamed
[14:16] <NCommander> hrm
[14:16] <NCommander> no dmart
[14:16] <NCommander> c/o
[14:16] <NCommander> [action] asac and dmart to get firefox rendering issue upstreamed
[14:16] <MootBot> ACTION received:  asac and dmart to get firefox rendering issue upstreamed
[14:16] <NCommander> [topic] Standing Items
[14:16] <MootBot> New Topic:  Standing Items
[14:16] <NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile.html
[14:16] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile.html
[14:17] <NCommander> [link] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile-ubuntu-10.04-beta-2.html
[14:17] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile-ubuntu-10.04-beta-2.html
[14:17] <NCommander> so beta 2 is upon us
[14:17] <JamieBennett> ouch, beta-2 work items need some love
[14:18] <NCommander> JamieBennett: indeed
[14:18] <NCommander> webservice-for-email is the one thats really hurtting
[14:19] <NCommander> [topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, ericm)
[14:19] <MootBot> New Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, ericm)
[14:20] <ericm> cooloney, you first
[14:20] <cooloney> ok
[14:20] <cooloney> actually, nothing important from my side these days
[14:21] <cooloney> i just noticed fsl is pushing their code to their public git tree
[14:21] <GrueMaster> what about hibernation?
[14:21] <plars> not supported on imx51
[14:21] <cooloney> oh, fsl-imx51 does not support hibernation
[14:21] <GrueMaster> Or suspend/resume?
[14:21] <cooloney> i think you guys reported suspend/resume regression after new fec driver applied
[14:21] <plars> yes
[14:22] <cooloney> but i am still working on the performance impact
[14:22] <cooloney> that's all from my side
[14:22] <ericm> ok, for dove
[14:23] <ericm> I've merged the latest LSP 5.1.0 from Marvell
[14:23] <ericm> yet it seemed to introduce a suspend/resume regression
[14:23] <ericm> I was verifying this with Marvell this afternoon and basically concluded this to be HW issue
[14:24] <plars> ericm: so they no longer think it's uboot related?
[14:24] <ericm> I've borrowed a good board from them, everything works fine here
[14:24] <NCommander> ericm: isn't the A0 out now?
[14:24] <ericm> plars, I'm now downgraded to 4.4.0, but it seemed not uboot related
[14:25] <plars> ok :(
[14:25] <ericm> NCommander, not sure that A0 stepping
[14:25] <ericm> but, hibernation still failed
[14:25] <plars> ericm: what is the rev of the board you borrowed?
[14:25] <ericm> plars, it's no newer than ours
[14:26] <GrueMaster> then why does it work when ours don't?
[14:26] <ericm> plars, so I doubt there are some HW differences, e.g. ECOs we'd like to confirm with Marvell Israle site, yet they seem to be all on holidays this week
[14:26] <ericm> GrueMaster, I have no idea of the possible HW difference
[14:27] <NCommander> ericm: ask what version of the BootROM they're using
[14:27] <NCommander> ericm: that's been a source of odd behavior across otherwise identical boards
[14:27] <ericm> NCommander, ok - I'll follow up
[14:28] <ericm> NCommander, give me an AR to track the HW difference of the suspend/resume regression
[14:28] <NCommander> [action] ericm to track HW/SW differences across Dove revisions for suspend/resume regressions
[14:28] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ericm to track HW/SW differences across Dove revisions for suspend/resume regressions
[14:28] <NCommander> done
[14:28] <ericm> Bug #541399, NCommander, it seems to be an issue of mkimage command line
[14:28] <NCommander> ericm: saw that one, on my TODO
[14:28] <ericm> incorrect setting of Load Address and Entry point, should be easy to fix
[14:29] <NCommander> ericm: thanks for looking into it, I think that bug dates to initial dove bringup since that was the first thing we implemented and I guess at some point it stopped getting regularly tested
[14:29] <GrueMaster> make sure that gets fixed immediately as we are now in Beta 2 and images are present for testing.
[14:29] <NCommander> GrueMaster: I suspect the fix will land after B2; I'll talk to cjwatson if he's willing to upload d-i
[14:29] <ericm> Bug #530432, it's actually a kernel bug yet the proposed patch in upstream seems not acceptable at the moment
[14:30] <GrueMaster> Yes, that one spans architectures iirc.
[14:30] <ericm> I'd recommend we implement a hook to umount the card before suspending
[14:30] <ericm> at the moment, until there is a clean patch merged
[14:31] <ericm> Bug #457536, it seems to be fixed in latest ubiquity
[14:31] <NCommander> [action] ericm to continue working on SD card suspend issue
[14:31] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ericm to continue working on SD card suspend issue
[14:31] <GrueMaster> yes, that was fixed.  Tested yesterday.
[14:31] <ericm> maybe we can close it
[14:31] <plars> um
[14:32] <ericm> there some other bugs maybe we can close, e.g. Bug #451553
[14:32] <plars> iirc the real fix for that was never implemented
[14:32] <plars> see bug comments
[14:32] <plars> speaking of 457536 that is
[14:32] <ericm> plars, it seems to be uboot-mkimage is absent, and need to get from network
[14:32] <NCommander> ericm: plars: we had that fixed
[14:32] <GrueMaster> Some of these bugs are in karmic and fixed in recent lucid images.
[14:33] <GrueMaster> Meaning they will still exist in karmic.
[14:33] <ericm> plars, cjwatson has made ubiquity depend on that so should be there in the ISO by default, right?
[14:33] <plars> iirc, it was worked around, but slangasek mentioned in the bug that there was a better way that it should be fixed
[14:33]  * NCommander thought we fixed it by putting uboot-mkimage in the ship seed
[14:33] <ericm> looks someone needs to follow this up
[14:33] <ericm> get an AR for someone, anyone?
[14:33] <plars> see the last couple of comments
[14:33] <ericm> NCommander, we also need to take a look into karmic
[14:34] <plars> the recommendation was to fix it in the recommends on the kernel image package
[14:34] <NCommander> [action] ericm, plars, NCommander to investigate uboot-mkimage breakage and offline dove installation
[14:34] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ericm, plars, NCommander to investigate uboot-mkimage breakage and offline dove installation
[14:34] <ericm> NCommander, ok thanks
[14:34] <NCommander> plars: its already a recommends of initramfs-tools/flash-kernel I think
[14:35] <ericm> let's move on, plars, GrueMaster, there might be other bugs we can close, e.g. Bug #451553
[14:35] <plars> hmm, is that the one with the double bit errors?
[14:35] <plars> I still get screenfuls of those
[14:36] <ericm> plars, it seems to be the one with unalignment faults
[14:36] <ericm> plars, double bit errors are actually warning, and we don't care about NAND, do we?
[14:36] <NCommander> ericm: not this cycle, but I'm hoping to have something w.r.t. to NAND based installing for 10.10
[14:36] <GrueMaster> Interestingly I do not see this on my dove.
[14:36]  * NCommander hasn't seen it on his X0 either
[14:37] <NCommander> plars: it might be that you need to reinitialize your NAND flash
[14:37] <plars> GrueMaster: you don't see the double bit errors?
[14:37] <GrueMaster> no
[14:37] <ericm> GrueMaster, this happens randomly as it's totally depending on the content of the NAND already there
[14:37] <NCommander> GrueMaster: they usually should up in the dmesg
[14:37] <plars> interesting
[14:37] <NCommander> [action] NCommander and plars to work together to reinitialize plars's NAND flash on his X0
[14:37] <MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander and plars to work together to reinitialize plars's NAND flash on his X0
[14:37] <NCommander> :-)
[14:37] <ericm> GrueMaster, NCommander, a clean NAND is supposed not to issue any such warnings
[14:37] <plars> sounds good
[14:37] <ericm> NCommander, ok
[14:38]  * plars has a dirty nand :(
[14:38] <NCommander> plars: I think we can knock that one down to wishlist at the very least, NAND is a very much "we don't care" thing rightnow
[14:38] <ericm> move on, the last item, I'm thinking of getting X0 support back into Karmic
[14:38] <NCommander> or low
[14:38] <plars> will do
[14:38] <NCommander> ericm: that just needs a kernel SRU (and a custom image respin)
[14:38] <ericm> as Karmic is still in it's supporting phase, yet the change might be BIG, so we do need to do a careful regression
[14:38] <ericm> test
[14:38] <NCommander> ericm: the userland support side is fine; I ran karmic on the X0 witout issue once I forced a new kernel on it
[14:39] <ericm> NCommander, cool - as long as plars, GrueMaster have some time to do a QA, I'm fine to push it right away
[14:40] <GrueMaster> Maybe end of week/early next week.  This is release week.
[14:40] <ericm> NCommander, give me an AR, and I'm done with the status update
[14:40] <NCommander> ericm: I think we can accept it into proposed, and if need be, I can spin a custom image with it and stuff it on p.c.c
[14:40] <NCommander> [action] ericm to drop X0 enablement into karmic-proposed
[14:40] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ericm to drop X0 enablement into karmic-proposed
[14:40] <ericm> ok
[14:40] <NCommander> [topic] ARM Application status (JamieBennett, dyfet)
[14:40] <MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Application status (JamieBennett, dyfet)
[14:41] <GrueMaster> erm, did you skip us?
[14:41] <JamieBennett> webservice-office-zoho is waiting on new icons, other than that nothing much to report
[14:41] <dyfet> There will also be a new blueprint for this for lucid+1
[14:41] <dyfet> And we may re-introduce canola2 then if it looks supportable
[14:41] <dyfet> but otherwise, yes, not much to report
[14:42] <NCommander> GrueMaster: whoops, sorry, Still not caffinated (ENOCOFFEE)
[14:42] <NCommander> JamieBennett: dyfet anything else?
[14:42] <NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster, plars)
[14:42] <MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster, plars)
[14:42] <NCommander> er
[14:42] <NCommander> whoops
[14:43] <JamieBennett> no move on
[14:44] <GrueMaster> Between 3/23 and 4/3, there were no new images to test due to gtk library respin.
[14:44] <GrueMaster> My focus shifted to app testing and debugging pulse audio issues.
[14:44] <GrueMaster> Along with kernel testing.
[14:44] <plars> oh, I thought they weren't done
[14:45] <plars> iso tracker is updated with milestone images
[14:45] <plars> so we have begun testing on that
[14:45] <plars> TI kernel has improved greatly
[14:46] <plars> the omap image boots to netbook desktop, and all, but no usb at the moment
[14:46]  * GrueMaster has no Ti system to test with (yet).
[14:46] <plars> working on getting that sorted out, may be able to hand build an image today that should work when my kernel compile completes
[14:46] <plars> and the sound problems were discussed earlier
[14:47] <NCommander> plars: GrueMaster anything else?
[14:47] <GrueMaster> I sent a list of bugs to ogra and asac that need some attention.
[14:48] <plars> GrueMaster: was that the one you cc'd me on?
[14:48] <GrueMaster> yes
[14:48] <plars> GrueMaster: right, planning to go through the list and make sure those are appropriately set wrt importance, milestone, etc.  If you know of any that need immediate fixing though, let me konw
[14:49] <NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
[14:49] <MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
[14:49] <dyfet> I had worked on some strange ftbfs packages, including basilisk and condor, but they were not arm specific issues
[14:49] <GrueMaster> The major visible one that I can think of is the maximus bug.  Bug 528887
[14:49] <NCommander> oh,*grumble*
[14:49] <NCommander> [topic] QA Status (GrueMaster, plars)
[14:49] <MootBot> New Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster, plars)
[14:50]  * plars has a flashback
[14:50] <GrueMaster> I'm done.
[14:50] <NCommander> GrueMaster: hrm, on #52887, I don't think I've had that issue on Dove
[14:51] <plars> yes
[14:51] <plars> it does
[14:51]  * NCommander must be misremembering or is clicking automatically out of habit
[14:51] <NCommander> anyone, can I move on?
[14:51] <plars> yes
[14:51] <GrueMaster> It is an issue on both.  The easiest way to reproduce it is to click on the terminal icon and then try to type in the window once the prompt comes up.
[14:52] <GrueMaster> move on, please.
[14:52]  * plars notes that zoho is now in the images and needs testing :)
[14:52] <NCommander> [topic] ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
[14:52] <MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Porting/FTBFS status (NCommander, dyfet)
[14:52] <NCommander> So. OOo is broken. Again.
[14:52]  * NCommander twiches
[14:53] <dyfet> I think I just commented on this one :)  feeling dejavu...
[14:53] <plars> dyfet: it's going around
[14:53] <NCommander> Looks like it *might* be a buildd issue with the new babbage 3 buildds; I had issues with building OOo on my Babbage 3 (I got quite a bit of hardware stability, but that was written up to faulty board)
[14:53] <NCommander> s/stability/instability
[14:54] <NCommander> lamont ran a test build on the old lange based buildds, and I have one going on jocote (I'll have one running on my Dove post-beta if the jocote build fails)
[14:54] <NCommander> [action] NCommander to coordinate with lamont on determining if OOo build failure is HW specific
[14:54] <MootBot> ACTION received:  NCommander to coordinate with lamont on determining if OOo build failure is HW specific
[14:55] <NCommander> dyfet: anything else to add?
[14:55]  * NCommander notes he's also working on a fix and improvement for Dove netboot images
[14:55] <dyfet> Only what I did earlier, that I had been looking at other ftbfs packages not arm specific though
[14:55] <NCommander> [topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, persia)
[14:55] <MootBot> New Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, persia)
[14:56] <JamieBennett> plars: zoho stuff has a few fixes already sitting in my bzr branch waiting for icons
[14:57]  * NCommander pokes persia and ogasawara 
[14:57] <NCommander> er
[14:57]  * NCommander notes we lost ogra
[14:57] <NCommander> We're almost out of time so moving on
[14:57] <NCommander> [topic] Any Other Business
[14:57] <MootBot> New Topic:  Any Other Business
[14:58] <GrueMaster> Well, not hearing from them, I can state that the image builds were essentially down for gtk respin which took quite a while.
[14:58] <persia> server images are in poor shape.   netbook images look up-to-date.
[14:58] <NCommander> persia: define poor shape
[14:58] <persia> Last updated 3/23
[14:58]  * persia will investigate more
[14:59] <NCommander> persia: we can look at fixing and debugging the dove ones for B2/RC
[14:59] <persia> Right.
[14:59] <NCommander> [action] persia and NCommander to test and improve server image experience
[14:59] <MootBot> ACTION received:  persia and NCommander to test and improve server image experience
[14:59] <NCommander> anything else?
[15:00] <NCommander> #endmeeting
[15:00] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:00.
[15:00] <NCommander> Goodnight folks!
[15:00] <NCommander> (or goodday :-))
[15:00] <pitti> o/
[15:00] <kees> \o
[15:01]  * kees goes looking for sabdfl and cjwatson
[15:01] <kees> Keybuk, mdz: you guys unidled?
[15:01] <Keybuk> I am here
[15:03] <cjwatson> here
[15:03] <mdz> kees: hi
[15:03] <sabdfl> hi all
[15:03] <kees> cjwatson: weird, tab-completion didn't find you a moment ago
[15:03] <kees> ok
[15:03] <kees> #startmeeting
[15:03] <MootBot> Meeting started at 09:03. The chair is kees.
[15:03] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[15:03] <mdz> kees: stealth mode
[15:03] <kees> [TOPIC] action review
[15:03] <MootBot> New Topic:  action review
[15:04] <kees> [link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
[15:04] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
[15:04] <kees> Riddell: any news on the KDE Updates Policy?
[15:05] <Riddell> kees: mm, sorry, not yet
[15:05] <Riddell> it never quite reaches the top of my todo
[15:06] <cjwatson> is it delegatable?
[15:06] <cjwatson> not that I'm always one to talk
[15:07] <Riddell> not sure, it needs someone with the will to do it and close ties to KDE
[15:07] <kees> Riddell: assuming it stays with you, when should we ping again?
[15:08] <cjwatson> worth bringing up with other Kubuntu developers perhaps?
[15:08] <Riddell> kees: after beta 2 probably good
[15:09] <kees> Riddell: okay, next TB meeting then.  what is the next specific action that needs to be taken?
[15:09] <Riddell> cjwatson: I think it needs to be led by someone who's a KDE developer, upstream aren't too interested in being led by downstream for that
[15:09] <Riddell> kees: tidy up the draft and get final approval from KDE
[15:10] <cjwatson> ok, I thought we had some KDE developers among kubuntu-dev though
[15:10] <sabdfl> could Scott Kitterman have a stab? this either needs to get done, or dropped from the TB list
[15:11] <Riddell> he could yes
[15:12] <kees> ScottK: will you have time in the next 2 weeks to tidy up the KDE updates draft, and get approval from KDE?
[15:12] <mdz> perhaps Riddell could take this offline as an action?
[15:12] <ScottK> kees: I can tidy it up.  Hard to predict "KDE approval"
[15:13] <kees> ScottK: heh, true
[15:13] <kees> [ACTION] Riddell and ScottK to sort next steps of KDE Updates process
[15:13] <MootBot> ACTION received:  Riddell and ScottK to sort next steps of KDE Updates process
[15:13] <kees> "sabdfl to write up minutes from 2010-03-09 meeting, or delegate"
[15:14] <sabdfl> i didn't, and don't foresee being able to do so
[15:14] <sabdfl> anybody have a url for the log?
[15:14] <cjwatson> I can take that - just wanted to know I wasn't duplicating
[15:14] <sabdfl> ok thanks very much colin!
[15:15] <kees> [ACTION] cjwatson to write up 2010-03-09 meeting minutes
[15:15] <MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to write up 2010-03-09 meeting minutes
[15:15] <kees> [TOPIC] community bugs (none)
[15:15] <MootBot> New Topic:  community bugs (none)
[15:15] <kees> [TOPIC] new issues?
[15:15] <MootBot> New Topic:  new issues?
[15:15] <kees> anything else?  our agenda is rather empty this time.
[15:15] <mdz> 10.10?
[15:16] <mdz> our website says that the technical board sets the direction for each Ubuntu release
[15:16] <james_w> is libfaac a TB issue?
[15:16] <mdz> in practice, this is virtually all done by more specialized teams
[15:17] <kees> mdz: what was done by TB for 10.04?
[15:17] <kees> james_w: what's the issue?
[15:17] <mdz> kees: in my capacity on the TB, I nagged the engineering managers to publish their plans to mailing lists etc.
[15:17] <mdz> and to make their planning process transparent to the community
[15:18] <mdz> the results were sort of mixed, and I think we ought to do better this time
[15:18] <kees> mdz: can you do that again?  sounds like you've got a template for it.
[15:19] <james_w> kees: bug 374900: libfaac appears to be undistributable. This has been discussed on the TB list (more than once?), so I don't want to disrupt any discussion by acting as a member of ~ubuntu-archive.
[15:19] <mdz> kees: I will talk to robbiew about it; he is managing the planning process
[15:20] <kees> mdz: I was going to suggest robbiew too, but thought maybe you wanted specifically a TB member to do it.
[15:20] <mdz> in addition to asking people to be transparent, is there anything else the TB should be doing with regard to 10.10?
[15:21] <kees> james_w: if action by ubuntu-archive is not straight-forward for libfacc, can you write up a plan that TB would need to act on?
[15:22] <mdz> kees: (agenda) I'm also interested in checking in with the DMB (via cjwatson) to understand how things are going with the new regime
[15:22] <kees> mdz: well, the only technical-ish thing I can think of for 10.10 is that we have to remind people to keep an eye out for breakage as we open the floodgates on unstable imports/merges.  coming off an LTS can be a bit jarring.
[15:22] <james_w> kees: that's backwards from what I understand is happening, I started discussion in ~ubuntu-archive and was told that the TB was discussing the issue, so I'm following up to see if that is the case, and seeing if we can have a decision before release.
[15:23] <kees> james_w: this is the first I've heard of it, but that is likely a commentary on my memory.  :P
[15:23] <mdz> james_w: that is not the case (wrong verb tense)
[15:23] <Keybuk> from the ML archives, sabdfl had the lead on that one
[15:23] <mdz> there was a discussion (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2010-March/000115.html) but it died out
[15:23] <james_w> sorry, yes, discussed
[15:24] <mdz> sabdfl: ?
[15:24] <sabdfl> i'm lookin'
[15:24] <mdz> kees: has anyone floated the question of continuing to merge from testing vs. going back to unstable?
[15:25] <kees> mdz: I don't think so; I prefer syncing from unstable, so the idea didn't even cross my mind.
[15:26] <pitti> like, keeping that for future releases, or a post-mortem of the approach for lucid?
[15:26] <mdz> pitti: the latter, followed by the former
[15:26] <pitti> I also had assumed we'd go back to unstable, since the LTS plan in the wiki mentions that for LTSes only
[15:26] <mdz> it's one of those things that people always suggest that we do
[15:26] <mdz> and we have good reasons for not doing it
[15:27] <mdz> but we're in a unique position now of being able to evaluate and see what the real differences were
[15:27] <mdz> and how we can apply lessons learned to future releases
[15:27] <pitti> I don't claim to have hard data, but my gut feeling is that lucid has been quite stable throughout the cycle (except for the things which we deliberately broke, such as nouveau/plymouth/etc.)
[15:28] <mdz> pitti: that's my gut feeling as well, and my conjecture is that this probably improved overall productivity for developers
[15:28] <persia> That's not been the case in some areas.  SDL is a particular example where things went very wrong.
[15:28] <cjwatson> sorry, I had an annoying connection issue there
[15:28] <mdz> I don't think we can productively evaluate it here, but I think it would be a good exercise
[15:29] <persia> If the intent is to pull from testing, it may well be worth indicating that pulling from experimental has higher risk than it did in the past.
[15:29] <kees> sounds like we need a port-mortem of testing-sync first, and we can go from there.  who would like to drive that?
[15:30] <sabdfl> w.r.t. libfaac, the main issue appears to be a question about whether we can ship some very old code that was developed as part of the ISO standardisation process
[15:30] <cjwatson> regarding maverick direction, my impression so far is that we have the start of a product vision (e.g. http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/336) and a number of specific plans among teams, but not a lot in the way of a technical overview yet
[15:30] <cjwatson> perhaps it's putting the cart before the horse to try to construct that before teams have done more of their planning - not sure
[15:30] <sabdfl> +1 to including it
[15:30] <pitti> kees: I guess this amounts to discussing it on u-devel@ and collecting the results?
[15:30] <pitti> kees: I'm happy to start this off
[15:31] <kees> pitti: that was my thought as well
[15:31] <sabdfl> i think we should express a preference for, and willingness to move to, a reimplementation once one is available
[15:31] <kees> [ACTION] pitti to kick off post-mortem of sync-from-testing on u-devel@
[15:31] <MootBot> ACTION received:  pitti to kick off post-mortem of sync-from-testing on u-devel@
[15:31] <ScottK> It might be nice to have some explicit lessons learned sessions at UDS like we did in Barcelona.
[15:31] <sabdfl> james_w: so, you can close that bug, my reading of the copyright is that we *can* ship it
[15:32] <mdz> pitti: thank you
[15:32] <cjwatson> have we had a lawyer's opinion?
[15:32] <sabdfl> cjwatson: not afaik
[15:32] <cjwatson> I'm concerned that upstream has threatened to sue, per that TB thread
[15:33] <james_w> sabdfl: the original license is distributable, so fine for multiverse, however the modifications are LGPLv2, which is not compatible with a non-free license when compiled in to a single library in my understanding.
[15:33] <cjwatson> right, it's a combination issue not an individual-distributability issue
[15:33] <cjwatson> upstream> sorry, upstream ffmpeg
[15:33] <james_w> which would make the resulting package undistributable due to the combination of licenses.
[15:34] <james_w> yes, there's a question of if we ship it, and then if we do, the question of if we link ffmpeg to it.
[15:34] <czajkowski> .c
[15:35] <sabdfl> hmm.. .can it not be structured to keep the different bits separate?
[15:35] <sabdfl> i don't see any issue with modifying ffmpeg so as to autodetect and adapt to its presence
[15:35] <sabdfl> that's not violating any copyright
[15:36] <sabdfl> my read on the threat to sue was that it was not based on any substantive complaint
[15:36] <cjwatson> if that's the case, it seems to me that we should be discussing it with upstream ffmpeg rather than Just Doing It :-)
[15:37] <sabdfl> except, if they are not rational, there is not a lot of value in the discussion
[15:37] <cjwatson> sabdfl: that seems a large presumption before starting the discussion ...
[15:37] <sabdfl> and starting out a conversation with an indiscriminate threat to sue is very, Schilling
[15:37] <james_w> I believe that the ffmpeg complaint would depend on your interpretation of the linking restrictions in the GPL.
[15:38] <cjwatson> starting> well, actually, it seems that this is coming part-way through a discussion
[15:38] <cjwatson> and that it got forwarded to us at that point
[15:38] <cjwatson> would we lose all that much by pulling out the libfaac linkage for now?  from the thread, it seemed to me that it was encoders-only
[15:38] <james_w> whether we can ship libfaac at all seems to depend on your reading of the compatibility of that license and the LPGL, along with your interpretation of the linking exception in the LGPL.
[15:39] <james_w> yes, libfaac is purely an encoder
[15:39] <james_w> and I'm not sure that ffmpeg links against it any more
[15:39] <cjwatson> I'm concerned at us being burned by one unreasonable upstream and that making a presumption that further people with (possibly) genuine grievances are unreasonable
[15:39] <cjwatson> s/that/then/
[15:41] <mdz> cjwatson++
[15:42] <kees> I hear a few things here:  a) is libfaac redistributable? ("yes")  b) is ffmpeg okay to compile-time link? ("no")  c) is ffmpeg okay to run-time link? ("yes")    am I missing something?
[15:42] <mdz> (is everyone multitasking?)
[15:42] <sabdfl> cjwatson: feel free to dive into it and amend the decision. for now, though, my view is we can ship what was proposed, on the basis that it's a straight derivative of work under an open source license
[15:43] <cjwatson> there are lots of things under straight open-source licences that we can't and don't distribute in combination
[15:43] <cjwatson> I should say "link together"
[15:44] <cjwatson> FWIW, http://lists.mplayerhq.hu/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2010-March/084009.html is the root of the upstream thread
[15:44] <cjwatson> comments there seem to indicate that it isn't the first time this was brought up, but I don't have full context
[15:45] <james_w> kees: I disagree on (a), but if others agree then I will go along because I'm not that experienced at reading licenses
[15:45] <cjwatson> my opinion (and this is an *opinion*, not amending a decision because I don't think I can do that solo) is that this particular piece of functionality is not worth the aggravation of a licensing dispute
[15:46] <kees> cjwatson: I agree with that.  :)
[15:47] <mdz> is anyone aware of an application which makes use of this plugin?
[15:47] <kees> is "a" in dispute?  the thread I was reading seemed to be about linking against ffmpeg, rather than redistributability of libfaac
[15:47] <cjwatson> and our justification for shipping the co-linking would appear to be grounded in the assumption that it's OK for GPLed code to link to incompatibly-licensed code by way of dlopen, which is a definite grey area; my understanding is that it is only really safe when the dlopen is of a generic interface which is known to be implemented in various ways some of which are compatible
[15:47] <mdz> (not counting ones where the user can manually configure an arbitrary gstreamer pipeline)
[15:47] <pitti> mdz: perhaps pitivi
[15:47] <pitti> but I'm not sure; it can currently encode in other formats just fine
[15:47] <mdz> pitti: you mean that's not just a text editor you made? ;-)
[15:48] <pitti> mdz: did you not ever want to have one? 10ds -> cut 10 sequences :)
[15:48] <mdz> pitti: I just looked at pitivi, and it only offers vorbis, celt, flac and speex
[15:48] <james_w> mdz: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/faac/+bug/374900/comments/13 contains a list of packages in Ubuntu that use faac
[15:48] <james_w> some using the binary (which is fine), and others by linking
[15:49] <ScottK> cjwatson: I think it that's not allowed, we have other problems.
[15:49] <pitti> mdz: hm, ISTR it also offered wmv
[15:49] <sabdfl> cjwatson: aiui, libfaac qualifies, in that it was developed as part of a standards process, has been around for a very long time, has never had any copyright asserted against it, and is widely used
[15:49] <pitti> mdz: oh, you have to select a different muxer than ogg; for example, avi
[15:50] <mdz> james_w: thanks. most of these seem to be command line tools with many other options for encoders
[15:50] <cjwatson> sabdfl: it's not clear to me that being developed as part of a standards process is relevant; there is much such code that we couldn't ship
[15:50] <sabdfl> the copyright gives license to developers *and users*
[15:50] <mdz> pitti: aha, thanks (and the "AVI muxer" not the "ffmpeg AVI muxer")
[15:51] <cjwatson> and it would appear to me, on the face of it, that it clearly contravenes our "field of endeavour" licensing guideline
[15:51] <mdz> kees: time check?
[15:51] <cjwatson> in fact it's quite explicit
[15:51] <cjwatson> "Copyright is not released for non MPEG-2 NBC/MPEG-4 Audio conforming products"
[15:51] <james_w> mdz: yes. We would only be taking away one option of encoder if we remove it, but some people prefer aac (some mp3 players apparently only support aac for example)
[15:51] <cjwatson> there is no way we would accept that in a new package
[15:51] <kees> mdz: only selecting a chair is next, and I think you're up next alphabetically.
[15:53] <mdz> kees: <mdz> kees: (agenda) I'm also interested in checking in with the DMB (via cjwatson) to understand how things are going with the new regime
[15:53] <kees> mdz: ah, sorry, missed that
[15:54] <kees> do we need a vote, or to continue discussion offline about libfaac?
[15:54] <mdz> someone needs to take ownership of it
[15:54] <mdz> sabdfl was first responder, but it sounds like he doesn't have time for it
[15:55] <kees> cjwatson: can you drive the libfaac issue to conclusion?
[15:55] <cjwatson> I guess I'm unlucky by virtue of having expressed a strong opinion, eh?
[15:55] <kees> :)
[15:55] <mdz> cjwatson: and not only that, a strong grasp of the issues involved
[15:55] <mdz> and excellent judgment!
[15:55] <cjwatson> established over the previous hour in which I hurriedly read up on it.  but ok ...
[15:55] <pitti> kees: hm, license issues don't seem like something vote-able to me?
[15:56] <kees> pitti: yeah
[15:56] <pitti> the "drop encoding from lucid" question certainly is, though
[15:56] <sabdfl> the code in question is not going to change license, it is effectively orphaned
[15:56] <kees> [ACTION] cjwatson to drive libfaac issue to conclusion (bug 374900)
[15:56] <MootBot> ACTION received:  cjwatson to drive libfaac issue to conclusion (bug 374900)
[15:56] <kees> 4 minutes!  :)
[15:56] <kees> cjwatson: how is DMB progressing?
[15:57] <cjwatson> seems ok.  next? :-)
[15:57] <cjwatson> um, we've processed a number of candidates, with some robust disagreement in places but basically the level I would expect
[15:57] <mdz> it's always gratifying to know that these things always work out exactly as we expect, the first time, with no unforeseen questions being raised
[15:57] <cjwatson> mdz: :-P
[15:58] <cjwatson> there has been some confusion about exact voting practices, which is basically administrative but brought on by the fairly large quorum
[15:58] <mdz> I recall a thread about DMB's implicit membership in core-dev
[15:59] <cjwatson> and we need to do something about the meeting time, which now doesn't quite work for everyone - but by and large it seems to be working out fairly well
[15:59] <cjwatson> mdz: yes, and it was made just an owner rather than an admin-member to avoid that
[16:00] <cjwatson> the same needs to be done for a few other teams, but I trust the current DMB members not to abuse the privileges unintentionally granted them in the meantime
[16:00] <mdz> cjwatson: are there DMB members who are not core-dev members? and if so, what's holding them back? ;-)
[16:00] <cjwatson> persia's application is pending, IIRC
[16:00] <ScottK> If not, someone should apply for him.
[16:00] <persia> I haven't applied yet, and with the change to owner, plan not to apply (but haven't withdrawn it yet).
[16:00] <cjwatson> and there are one or two others
[16:01] <cjwatson> I'll try to remember to issue some kind of exhortation next meeting
[16:01] <kees> we're out of time...
[16:01] <kees> mdz, you're the next chair; thanks everyone!
[16:01] <kees> #endmeeting
[16:01] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:01.
[16:01] <james_w> thanks
[16:02] <pitti> thanks everyone
[17:53] <apctr_> hi all, i am planning to hold ubuntu booth during techfest on 16-17th this month, i'd like to have swags,flyers for this or  i am in the wrong channel :)
[17:55] <persia> apctr_: You're in the wrong channel.  Unfortunately, I don't know which is the right channel.
[17:55] <persia> I presume you'd do best to work through your LoCo, but I'm not sure of the particulars.
[17:56] <czajkowski> apctr_: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuAtConferences
[17:56] <apctr_> thanx czajkowski
[17:56] <czajkowski> no problem
[17:56] <czajkowski> apctr_: if you need a hand in future best palce to ask is #ubuntu-locoteams
[17:57] <apctr_> ohk, czajkowski
[17:58] <Seveas> @now utc
[17:59] <JFo> o/
[17:59]  * JFo settles in for the kernel team meeting
[17:59] <jjohansen> \o
[17:59] <cnd> o/
[17:59] <cking> o/  i'm here too
[17:59] <ogasawara> o/
[17:59]  * manjo waves oo/
[18:00] <cking> manjos' got two heads?
[18:00] <JFo> aaa manjo has 2 heads! :-)
[18:00]  * apw flutters in
[18:00] <cnd> manjo: where'd you get a second head?
[18:00] <JFo> lol
[18:00] <apw> zapho-manjo-box
[18:00]  * manjo is in dual head mode 
[18:00] <apw> zaphod-manjo-box
[18:00] <JFo> manjo, good answer :)
[18:01]  * JFo has his towel
[18:01]  * csurbhi rushes in
[18:01]  * apw puts jfo's towel between his feet
[18:01]  * amitk waves
[18:01] <JFo> :-(
[18:01]  * manjo will look like this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ravana.jpg soon
[18:02] <bjf> #startmeeting
[18:02] <MootBot> Meeting started at 12:02. The chair is bjf.
[18:02] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[18:02] <bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
[18:02] <bjf> [LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
[18:02] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting
[18:02] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid
[18:02] <bjf> #
[18:02] <bjf> # NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.
[18:02] <bjf> #
[18:02] <bjf> [TOPIC] Release Metrics: (JFo)
[18:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Release Metrics: (JFo)
[18:03] <JFo> Release Meeting Bugs (9 bugs, 2 blueprints)
[18:03] <JFo> [18:03] <JFo> Beta 2 Milestoned Bugs (58 bugs against all packages (down 35))
[18:03] <JFo>  * 6 linux kernel bugs (down 7)
[18:03] <JFo>  * 0 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs (no change)
[18:03] <JFo>  * 0 linux-ec2 bug (down 1)
[18:03] <JFo>  * 0 linux-mvl-dove bugs (down 1)
[18:03] <JFo> [18:03] <JFo> Release Targeted Bugs (295 bugs against all packages (down 5))
[18:03] <JFo>  * 29 linux kernel bugs (down 3)
[18:03] <JFo>  * 0 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs  (no change)
[18:03] <JFo>  * 0 linux-ec2 bug (down 1)
[18:03] <JFo>  * 0 linux-mvl-dove bugs (down 1)
[18:03] <JFo> [18:03] <JFo> Milestoned Features -
[18:03] <JFo>  * 0 blueprints
[18:03] <JFo>     
[18:03] <JFo> [18:03] <JFo> Bugs with Patches Attached:120 (down 3)
[18:03] <JFo> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bugs?field.has_patch=on
[18:03] <JFo> Breakdown by status:
[18:03] <JFo> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/
[18:03] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/
[18:03]  * JFo notes there were no upward trends in the data this week
[18:03] <JFo> great work you guys :)
[18:03] <JFo> ..
[18:04] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-bug-handling (JFo)
[18:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-bug-handling (JFo)
[18:04] <JFo>  * All work items done or postponed
[18:04] <JFo> only remaining tasks are for release
[18:04] <JFo> ..
[18:04] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review (apw)
[18:04] <bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review
[18:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review (apw)
[18:04] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review
[18:05] <apw> Over-active been in VT is under investigation.  We expect to write up the configuration report in time for Beta-2.
[18:05] <apw> ..
[18:05] <apw> s/been/beep
[18:05] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kms (sconklin / apw)
[18:05] <bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kms
[18:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kms (sconklin / apw)
[18:05] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kms
[18:05] <apw> We have ongoing issues with Lid detection, currently we have LVDS lid detection reverted and we are looking at the fallout from that change.
[18:05] <apw> ..
[18:05] <sconklin> Nothing more ..
[18:06] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-suspend-resume (manjo)
[18:06] <bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-suspend-resume
[18:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-suspend-resume (manjo)
[18:06] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-suspend-resume
[18:06] <manjo> apport -- allow us to detect frequency of failure:POSTPONED all other work items done
[18:06] <manjo> ..
[18:06] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-apparmor-development (jjohansen)
[18:06] <bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-apparmor-development
[18:06] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-apparmor-development (jjohansen)
[18:06] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-apparmor-development
[18:07] <jjohansen> still looking for the root cause of Bug #552225, Bug #544764, Bug #549428, Bug #458299
[18:07] <apw> (one common root cause?)
[18:07] <jjohansen> it seems to only surface in highly loaded, and fragmented memory systems
[18:07] <jjohansen> not positive, but very likely
[18:08] <jjohansen> it is always replacement related, under high memory pressure/fragmented memory
[18:08] <jjohansen> where fast path allocation fails and we fall back to vmalloc for the dfa
[18:09] <jjohansen> it seems to be very much related to the use of swap
[18:09] <jjohansen> as I have reports that turning off swap makes it go away
[18:09] <jjohansen> and in the end may be a bug in the mm and not apparmor
[18:10] <jjohansen> also verified that the policy compiler is building isomorphs on multi-policy load and not suffering from a bug, and looked at ways to fix this for M so that we can use multi-profile load and have automated policy verification.
[18:10] <apw> nasty, though swapping would imply the other known triggers, low memory and fragmentation
[18:10] <jjohansen> yep
[18:11] <apw> how is the upstreaming going?
[18:11] <jjohansen> we haven't been using multi-policy load because we have known that it is generating alternate dfas, and haven't been able to verify them
[18:13] <jjohansen> heh, I found a few more problems with what I was trying to kick out last week so it got delayed into this week, I have been working through, the checks to send out this morning
[18:14] <jjohansen> I expect a few more audit changes will be required yet, and the path generation is some what dependent upon the __d_path patch discussion that I am also rekicking out patches for
[18:15] <jjohansen> ..
[18:15] <bjf> [TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-boot-performance (apw, csurbhi)
[18:15] <bjf> [LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-boot-performance
[18:15] <MootBot> New Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-boot-performance (apw, csurbhi)
[18:15] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-boot-performance
[18:15] <apw> i think this one is basically done and i thought we pulled it off
[18:15] <apw> ..
[18:16] <bjf> apw, I'll make sure it's gone from next week
[18:16] <apw> ta
[18:16] <bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: Lucid Audio Support (bjf)
[18:16] <MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: Lucid Audio Support (bjf)
[18:16] <bjf> More arsenal work. Wrapping up the survey this week.
[18:16] <bjf> ..
[18:16] <bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: Lucid Better Power Mgt (cnd)
[18:16] <MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: Lucid Better Power Mgt (cnd)
[18:17] <cnd> no news
[18:17] <cnd> ..
[18:17] <apw> do we have things in a PPA now?
[18:17] <manjo> cnd, proabably a good idea to talk to desktop for M to add an airplane mode
[18:17] <cnd> they've been in a ppa for a while
[18:18] <cnd> manjo: airplane mode?
[18:18] <apw> trying to work out whether your task is 'done' reporting wise or needs targetting for release
[18:18] <manjo> ie turn off radios etc
[18:18] <JFo> cnd, like a low power mode
[18:18] <cnd> that seems outside the scope of this task though
[18:18] <JFo> pgraner has some thoughts on that too
[18:18] <apw> cirtainly outside this tasks, we should make sure that kind of thing gets on the UDS agenda
[18:19] <bjf> [TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: EC2 Lucid Kernel Status (jjohansen)
[18:19] <MootBot> New Topic:  Other Release Tasks: EC2 Lucid Kernel Status (jjohansen)
[18:19] <jjohansen> We have Bug #532553, which is just a config oversight as far I can tell
[18:20] <jjohansen> the only question being whether we want to turn it on this late
[18:20] <jjohansen> ..
[18:20] <apw> jjohansen, i would think anything netfilter
[18:20] <apw> related is handy to ahve in that environment, and we have a window
[18:20] <apw> to respin for release i would say
[18:20] <jjohansen> okay, I'll send a patch out this morning
[18:21] <apw> for somethign which only adds a module which is very low risk
[18:21] <apw> ..
[18:21] <bjf> [TOPIC] Status: Lucid (apw)
[18:21] <MootBot> New Topic:  Status: Lucid (apw)
[18:21] <apw> Beta-2 kernels are in an built.  We are not expecting to change the kernel before beta-2.  We are expecting some change still before release.
[18:21] <apw> Otherwise the worst issues are graphics related to my mind, and mostly getting resolved.
[18:22] <apw> doubt they will all get resolved before release however.
[18:22] <pgraner> apw: I set the expectation that we will have at least one more upload prior to release freeze
[18:22] <apw> we are expecting to be getting a stable update too
[18:22] <apw> pgraner, thanks
[18:22] <apw> ..
[18:22] <bjf> [TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (gnarl/smb)
[18:22] <MootBot> New Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (gnarl/smb)
[18:23] <manjo> smb on vacation ?
[18:23] <bjf> noone has his data?
[18:23] <bjf> csurbhi, ?
[18:24] <manjo> heh
[18:24] <bjf> guess not
[18:24] <apw> sorry no i don't see to have it
[18:24] <bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
[18:24] <MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)
[18:24] <apw> i had a quick look and there are a couple of changes to last week things moving forward ..
[18:24] <JFo> Incoming Bugs
[18:24] <JFo> 709 Lucid Bugs (up 141)
[18:24] <JFo> Current regression stats (broken down by release):
[18:24] <JFo> [18:24] <JFo>   * 223 lucid bugs
[18:24] <JFo> [18:24] <JFo>   * 11 karmic bugs
[18:24] <JFo>   * 5 jaunty bugs
[18:24] <JFo>   * 2 intrepid bugs
[18:24] <JFo>   * 1 hardy bug
[18:24] <JFo> [18:25] <JFo>   * 52 karmic bugs
[18:25] <JFo>   * 21 jaunty bugs
[18:25] <JFo>   * 11 intrepid bugs
[18:25] <JFo>   * 4 hardy bugs
[18:25] <JFo> [18:25] <JFo>   * 1 karmic bug
[18:25] <JFo> please note the continued upswing in bugs incoming and regressions against lucid
[18:25] <JFo> ..
[18:25] <apw> inevitable as people start testing
[18:25] <apw> ..
[18:25] <JFo> indeed
[18:25] <JFo> ..
[18:26] <bjf> [TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
[18:26] <MootBot> New Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)
[18:26] <JFo> * The next Kernel Team 'regression-' bug day is Wednesday, April 7. Thanks for working on these last week.
[18:26] <JFo> ..
[18:26] <bjf> [TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
[18:26] <MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?
[18:26] <manjo> ..
[18:26] <kamalm> o/
[18:27] <bjf> kamalm, go
[18:27] <kamalm> Just FYI -- I am working on the "volume keys never release" issue -- seems to be a common problem for various laptop models (bug 550979, bug 420473, bug 374884).
[18:27] <kamalm> The problem can be fixed in 'udev' by adding bits to /lib/udev/... scripts -- I plan to produce a patched 'udev' package for those bug submitters to test.
[18:27] <kamalm> ..
[18:27] <bjf> kamalm, that's great!
[18:27] <bjf> anyone else?
[18:27] <apw> kamalm, nice ...
[18:28] <bjf> thanks everyone
[18:28] <bjf> #endmeeting
[18:28] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:28.
[18:28] <JFo> thanks bjf
[18:28] <apw> bjf, thanks
[18:28] <kamalm> bjf: thanks
[18:28] <cking> thanks once again bjf
[18:29] <jdstrand> kees, mdeslaur: ready?
[18:29]  * jjohansen still here
[18:31] <mdeslaur> yep!
[18:34] <kees> jdstrand: ok, ready
[18:35] <kees> okay, starting
[18:35] <kees> I'm testing openjdk-6 updates currently, should publish today hopefully.  next I'll be gathering up glibc updates, there a a bunch that have been collecting.
[18:35] <kees> after that, back to embargoed stuff
[18:36] <kees> jdstrand: your turn
[18:36] <jdstrand> k
[18:36] <jdstrand> so yesterday I finished my BP items with the libvirt 0.7.5-5ubuntu19 upload (waiting to be accepted)
[18:37] <jdstrand> I was able to backport everything I did for 0.7.7/upstreaming except save/restore, which has a workaround in place
[18:37] <jdstrand> upstream has been ack'ing my patches throughout the day today :)
[18:38] <kees> ah, good
[18:38] <jdstrand> for the rest of the week, I plan to work on moin and erlang
[18:38] <jdstrand> I plan to go throught the clamav stuff ScottK submitted as well
[18:38] <jdstrand> and the firefox update should go out too
[18:39] <jdstrand> hopefully I can get through all that ;)
[18:39] <jdstrand> today I'm doing iso testing
[18:39] <jdstrand> and I'm on triage this week
[18:39] <jdstrand> that's it from me
[18:39] <mdeslaur> my turn?
[18:39] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: sure
[18:39] <kees> mdeslaur: yup
[18:40] <mdeslaur> So, I'm on community this week
[18:40] <mdeslaur> I've just uploaded sponsored mahara packages
[18:40] <mdeslaur> I'll take a look at ffmpeg
[18:40] <mdeslaur> And will probably work on php5
[18:41] <kees> that list was pretty long for ffmpeg.  siretart and you did a good bit of research.  :)
[18:41] <mdeslaur> If I have time, I'll start going through CVE-2009* as I did for the older ones
[18:41] <mdeslaur> kees: yeah! it's painful
[18:41] <kees> I wonder what happened here: http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-security/cve/open-cves-6mon.png
[18:41] <jdstrand> mdeslaur: btw, excellent job going through all those old CVEs last week
[18:41] <kees> yeah
[18:42] <mdeslaur> kees: whoa...that's odd
[18:42] <mdeslaur> it _doubled_?
[18:42] <kees> I can't see where 80 CVEs came from.
[18:42] <kees> well, the bottom line is 40, not 0
[18:42] <mdeslaur> openjdk and firefox
[18:42] <kees> (should I force it to be 0?)
[18:43] <jdstrand> I think so
[18:43] <kees> oh, yeah, openjdk has that many
[18:43] <jdstrand> kees: does that list have partner too?
[18:43] <jdstrand> kees: and does it include lucid?
[18:43] <kees> if it's in active/ yes
[18:43] <jdstrand> s/list/graph/
[18:44] <kees> jdstrand: that does not include lucid
[18:44] <jdstrand> kees: it seems acroread has 36 medium and sun-java6 has 23
[18:44] <jdstrand> along with the aforementioned openjdk
[18:44] <mdeslaur> acroread?
[18:44] <jdstrand> acrobat reader from partner
[18:45] <kees> ah, no, graph is only "SUPPORTED" from ubuntu-table, which is not partner
[18:45] <jdstrand> those have got to be old though (from dapper)
[18:45] <kees> but it does run with -S, so not lucid
[18:45] <mdeslaur> acroread is partner, and only vulnerable in lucid
[18:46] <kees> so, yeah, openjdk and firefox
[18:46] <kees> wheee
[18:46] <mdeslaur> there may have been a slew of webkit also
[18:46] <jdstrand> the firefox ones may be out of date-- I'll go through them all this week
[18:46] <kees> mdeslaur: do you want to postpone your workitem items?  looks like you and mvo are the only ones with stuff remaining.
[18:47] <mdeslaur> kees: yes, I do
[18:48] <mdeslaur> kees: thanks, postponed now
[18:48] <kees> mdeslaur: cool, I flipped it to Deferred too
[18:49] <kees> excellent.
[18:49]  * jdstrand wonders if security-lucid-catchall-medium should be 'Good Progress'
[18:49] <mdeslaur> The only thing I want to do before lucid is released is to make sure the openpgp card works
[18:49] <mdeslaur> as it didn't last time I tried
[18:49] <jdstrand> well, a bunch was postponed, so maybe not
[18:49] <kees> jdstrand: yeah, probably. changing...
[18:50] <kees> it's more than "slow progress" but not really "good".  but "good" is probably closer.
[18:50] <kees> robbiew, jjohansen, anyone: anything else to bring up?
[18:50] <robbiew> nope :)
[18:51] <jjohansen> no
[18:51] <kees> alrighty then!  thanks everyone.
[18:51] <jdstrand> o/
[18:51] <mdeslaur> thanks
[19:26] <ralemi> help
[19:26] <ralemi> help
[19:34] <mimor> The approval meeting is in 30 mins right?
[19:46] <rrnwexec> not sure... there's an IRC command... will have to look it up
[19:46] <rrnwexec> i'm in pidgin and it doesn't seem to have a quiet option
[19:47] <mimor> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA => in 10 min's right?
[19:48] <ralemi> Should be mimor, think so
[19:49] <mimor> k thx ralemi
[19:49] <mimor> saw you're on the list too
[19:50] <mimor> btw, nice portfolio you've got there ^^
[19:50] <mimor> I'm kinda jealous :P
[19:50] <ralemi> don't be I'm sure its gonna be ok...
[19:51] <mimor> i sure hope so... otherwise I'm already done with ><
[19:52] <ralemi> :D, Most of the people I know got it the second time,
[19:53] <mimor> oh
[19:53] <mimor> darn
[19:59] <ZachK_> Meeting yet?
[20:03] <popey> hullo!
[20:03] <ZachK_> Hello?
[20:03] <ralemi> Hi popey
[20:03] <ZachK_> popey: hey Alan...
[20:03] <ZachK_> popey: nice to see you again
[20:04] <mimor> hello
[20:04] <popey> we need to wait a few minutes for other members of the board to arrive
[20:04] <ZachK_> popey: you remember me don't you?
[20:05] <mimor> ok
[20:05]  * popey pings Seveas stgraber highvoltage 
[20:05]  * stgraber waves
[20:05] <popey> hey!
[20:05] <highvoltage> popey: pong!
[20:06] <highvoltage> did I make a timezone miscalculation? I thought that the meeting was at 20:00 UTC?
[20:06] <ZachK_> highvoltage: it is
[20:06] <popey> ooo
[20:06] <popey> you're right
[20:06] <popey> haha, it's only 19:00 UTC isnt it?
[20:06] <popey> go back to sleep highvoltage / Seveas / stgraber :)
[20:06] <ralemi> DLS!
[20:06]  * highvoltage > zzzZZZzzz
[20:06]  * persia encourages everyone to set their default timezone to Reykjavik
[20:07] <popey> :D
[20:07]  * popey goes back to watching BBC Parliament
[20:07] <highvoltage> persia: while you're at it, convince the countries who do DST to not do so :)
[20:07] <ZachK_> so no meeting or what
[20:07] <popey> ZachK_: not for another 53 minutes
[20:07] <ZachK_> popey: ok great
[20:08] <mimor> ok
[20:08] <ZachK_> :)
[20:08] <persia> highvoltage: Yeah, well.  Not my fault if y'all haven't the sense to move yet :)
[20:08] <highvoltage> persia: we don't have DST in .za :)
[20:09] <persia> s/y'all/they/
[20:09] <ZachK_> I live in the States
[20:09] <persia> Indiana or Arizona?
[20:10] <ZachK_> Illinois
[20:10] <persia> Oh well.
[20:10] <ZachK_> yeah
[20:30] <mkarnicki> Excuse me, I was wondering if EMEA Membership Meeting already took place?
[20:30] <ralemi> In half an hour
[20:31] <mkarnicki> Summer time confuses me ;) Thanks.
[20:55] <highvoltage>  * 5 minutes to EMEA meeting
[20:56] <ralemi> ....ping....
[20:57] <ralemi> anotice how to I ignore join/quits? /ignore doesn't work
[20:59] <ZachK_> ralemi: depending upon the client (chat client) you're using you might not have the option
[21:00] <ralemi> I see, thanks
[21:01] <ZachK_> ralemi: what client are you using?
[21:03] <ralemi> smuxi
[21:03] <ZachK_> never heard of that one
[21:03] <ralemi> :D
[21:03]  * stgraber waves again
[21:04] <popey> evening
[21:04] <popey> Seveas: you about?
[21:04] <popey> i think we're missing Matthew and Mark
[21:04] <stgraber> Got a SMS from Jonathan: Just hit my internet cap! Just topping up will be there in a minute
[21:05] <popey> haha
[21:05]  * ZachK_ laughs
[21:07] <highvoltage> I'm here!
[21:07] <ZachK_> hey highvoltage
[21:07] <highvoltage> (sorry ran into some internet problems)
[21:07] <ZachK_> it's ok....we all do
[21:07] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA
[21:08] <stgraber> highvoltage: I copy/pasted your SMS ;)
[21:08] <highvoltage> stgraber: thanks :)
[21:08] <rrnwexec1> greetings, Randall here. also had a net issue.
[21:09]  * ZachK_ is here....with no net issues...lol
[21:09] <ralemi> Rex...present :D
[21:10] <mimor> I'm present
[21:10] <popey> ok, we only have 3 out of 7 members available
[21:10]  * popey pokes Seveas 
[21:14] <highvoltage> we should share phone numbers so that we can poke people when they're not here
[21:14] <ZachK_> agreed
[21:14] <highvoltage> (and haven't said before that they aren't able to make it)
[21:14] <popey> things come up unfortunately
[21:15] <ZachK_> so.......
[21:15] <popey> 3 is too few really
[21:15] <popey> out of 7
[21:15] <mimor> so meeting's canceled?
[21:16] <popey> one moment
[21:17] <popey> we can hang about a bit and wait or we could try and get someone like elky pleia2 Technoviking cody-somerville or someone else to help..
[21:17]  * popey wonders if one of those pinged will be about
[21:18] <highvoltage> popey: cool, so if we don't have quorum we could get someone from like, the americas council to stand in?
[21:18] <popey> ya
[21:18] <popey> I've stood in before on the USA and Asia ones
[21:18] <popey> time one of them returned the favour ;)
[21:18] <ZachK_> popey: agreed
[21:18] <highvoltage> cool.
[21:19] <Technoviking> I'm here
[21:19] <popey> you available for 40 mins? :)
[21:19]  * maco thinks pleia2 is hiding
[21:20] <Technoviking> but wirless is in flaky part of the building, so I disappear and come back
[21:20] <popey> smart move
[21:20] <maco> she was activ less than 5 minutes ago
[21:20] <maco> *active
[21:20] <pleia2> swamped at work, sorry :(
[21:20] <Technoviking> but yes I can
[21:20] <popey> no worries pleia2
[21:20] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Membership/RegionalBoards/EMEA
[21:20] <popey> ZachK_: you're up first, please introduce yourself..
[21:21] <ZachK_> Well I'm Zach Kriesse...my personal wiki page may be found here at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZachK_
[21:21] <ZachK_> I'm a hardcore Linux user/Wiki Editor and I post on the forums when I can...
[21:22] <ZachK_> If I can help I will usually by answering the question myself, researching the problem to find an answer, or if I don't know/can't find an answer I usually know somebody who does....
[21:23] <popey> where in the community would you say your main focus is?
[21:23] <ZachK_> Don't know if you guys know of the Ubuntu Beginners Team?
[21:23] <highvoltage> ZachK_: quite a bit of your wiki page is about things you plan to do or currently doing, is there perhaps more that you have already done already?
[21:23] <ZachK_> highvoltage: ah little outdated....man..
[21:24] <ZachK_> my page that is..
[21:24] <popey> its kinda the first thing we ask for is an updated wiki page
[21:24] <ZachK_> popey: yes I know...
[21:24] <popey> without it it's hard for us to make a judgement about the work done
[21:24] <ZachK_> popey: most of the info there is correct and dated except for the one where I will most likely be a team lead later today
[21:25] <popey> where in the community would you say your main focus is?
[21:25] <ZachK_> My main hardcore focus is helping the new users come to Linux/Ubuntu...
[21:25] <popey> how do you do that?
[21:26] <ZachK_> Forums, IRC, Wiki Editing(Keeping Info Accurate and Updated) and just about anywhere else
[21:27] <popey> I'm finding it difficult to see documentary evidence of a sustained contribution to Ubuntu..
[21:27] <ZachK_> popey: .....
[21:27] <highvoltage> I'm going to say -1 for now, I can't take future considerations into account, and I'd need some more details of the support you've provided. Also, please ensure your wiki page is up to date before you re-apply.
[21:28] <highvoltage> s/future considerations/future contributions/
[21:28] <ZachK_> the last time i applied for membership i was told more time was needed...not more contributions...
[21:28] <ZachK_> but ok...
[21:29] <popey> you have some nice testimonials
[21:29] <popey> if you can gether more evidence of the work you've done that would make our job a heap easier
[21:30] <ZachK_> Yes........I know this but it's difficult to do so when you have no pc access for four months..
[21:30] <Technoviking> I'm going to say 0, I think you just need a little more work
[21:30] <ZachK_> I was finally able to get my pc back last week...
[21:30] <popey> difficult to contribute in a sustained way without a computer I'm sure, but not impossible :)
[21:30] <ZachK_> Ask around...I'm everywhere all the time...
[21:30] <highvoltage> ZachK_: I can sympathise with you, but in cases like that you'll just have to be patient unfortunately
[21:30] <popey> I shouldn't have to ask around
[21:30] <popey> it should be documented on your wiki page
[21:31] <popey> thats kinda the point of it
[21:31] <stgraber> I'm going to follow with a 0, time is great but what we're looking for is sustained contribution over time. So just come back in a few months with more work done and you should have your membership then.
[21:31] <ralemi> .
[21:31]  * popey will also vote 0 for now, if you can come back with a documented set of things you've achieved that would be magic!
[21:31] <ZachK_> stgraber: same i was told.....except for the more contributions part....bodhizazen would say the same for me...
[21:31] <popey> ZachK_: ask him to write you a testimonial then
[21:32] <ZachK_> popey: already have...he was supposed to but never did...
[21:32] <popey> I can't help you there, sorry.
[21:32] <popey> ok, next up is Ronnie Tucker who doesn't look like he's here
[21:32] <ZachK_> One thing that I've forgotten to note...the padawans that i've had...i've had four...
[21:32] <ZachK_> nigel_nb is one of them....
[21:32] <popey> get them to do the same..
[21:32] <ZachK_> but what the hay...
[21:32] <ZachK_> bye
[21:33] <popey> all the best!
[21:33] <popey> ralemi: looks like you're up next!
[21:33] <popey> introduce yourself please.
[21:33] <balto_> hi there
[21:33] <balto_> sorry got disconnected
[21:33] <balto_> had to login by new nick
[21:33] <balto_> Hello everyone,
[21:33] <balto_> I am Reza "Rex" Alemi, http://wiki.ubuntu.com/RexAlemi
[21:33] <popey> ahh, balto_ == relami ?
[21:33] <popey> :)
[21:33] <balto_> I am a software engineer and project manager in Vancouver,
[21:34] <balto_> Have worked with Ubuntu as a user for several years, whoever only in Vancouver did I sense the need
[21:34] <balto_> to step up and actively promote Ubuntu.
[21:34] <balto_> So, I Have been an active evangelist for the past 6 months as summarized in my wiki
[21:34] <balto_> Created a guide to show my own boss and then the other small and medium business owners
[21:34] <balto_> how they can use Ubuntu as their platform
[21:34] <balto_> Organized a game team development team on Ubuntu technologies,
[21:34] <balto_> and volunteered in the community events, made screencasts, done home support visits, etc
[21:34] <balto_> On the developer side, I have just done patches and hacks, nothing to brag about, but my bazar
[21:34] <balto_> branch was just approved today so I hope more is to come on that side, Although I really am not a
[21:34] <balto_> developer
[21:34] <balto_> Tried to do as much documentation and specification as possible. (340 wiki pages in 6 months and
[21:35] <balto_> counting)
[21:35] <balto_> And hope to increase awareness and build trust relationship to get traction for Ubuntu in the city.
[21:35] <balto_> (demonstrations for a total of 11 businesses for the past six months)
[21:35] <balto_> I really feel that there is an opportunity to increase market share for Ubuntu in businesses in
[21:35] <balto_> Vancouver, and that can lead as a poc to attract more traction for Ubuntu in North America.
[21:35] <popey> 3 lines is usually a good intro.. :)
[21:35] <balto_> :D
[21:35] <balto_> I am an evangelist, what did you expect?
[21:35] <popey> heh
[21:36] <popey> what format did the guide take that you wrote?
[21:36] <popey> a printed doc?
[21:36] <balto_> No, A wiki, with a port to PDF
[21:36] <highvoltage> balto_: does the Vancouver loco team do anything outside of advocating/support (such as bug days, packaging jams, etc)
[21:36] <balto_> All sorts,
[21:36] <balto_> but Randall is here and he will give you more details
[21:37] <balto_> we have bug squishes and support events
[21:37] <balto_> I am very proud of my work there as well
[21:37] <balto_> http://www.mccstudy.net/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=vanloco:supportsat
[21:38] <balto_> .
[21:39] <balto_> We had a lucid bugsquish just last week
[21:39] <rrnwexec1> i can vouch for Rex's efforts in Vancouver. i've added my testimonial to his wiki.
[21:39] <highvoltage> balto_: when (more or less) did you start contributing to the Vancouver loco?
[21:39] <balto_> October 2009
[21:41] <highvoltage> well, I like that you're active with bugs on launchpad, that combined with your loco work, gets you a +1 from me
[21:42] <balto_> Thank you Jonathan
[21:43] <Technoviking> +1 for me, good body of work
[21:43] <balto_> Thank you,
[21:43] <popey> i like the idea of support saturday
[21:43] <popey> what kinds of people turn up?
[21:43] <popey> completely green newbies or more experienced types?
[21:43] <balto_> The credit for that goes to Randall
[21:44] <balto_> but we have had from installing batteries in wireless mouse
[21:44] <balto_> to debugging drivers for GPS devices
[21:44] <rrnwexec1> I will say that Rex is a superb SupportHero at our SupportSaturday events. I've seen him tackle all kinds of problems, with excellent customer focus.
[21:44] <popey> and your sitting in the coffee shop.. what do you talk about with people during those sessions?
[21:45] <balto_> the idea is to show the people how support should be
[21:45] <balto_> I put on an eye candy in a rainy day and wait ( I always like fishing)
[21:45] <balto_> a game, a nice animation
[21:45] <balto_> and then someone comes forward and says "cool, what is it?"
[21:46] <balto_> and then they are hooked ;)
[21:46] <popey> i like that idea
[21:46] <highvoltage> yay Seveas_
[21:46] <Seveas_> nay Seveas
[21:46] <Seveas_> isp fail, nationwide down
[21:46] <popey> Seveas_: fix it!
[21:46] <Seveas_> popey, I wish I could...
[21:46] <popey> ok, based on solid community advocacy I'm going to +1 balto_ too
[21:46] <popey> Seveas_: bah, you're no use!
[21:46] <Seveas_> on some flaky 3g now, just for apologizing :(
[21:47] <highvoltage> Seveas_: you're not alone, bunch of people had network problems tonight it seems
[21:47] <balto_> The coffee shop was originally from Randal to
[21:47] <Technoviking> popey: still need me?
[21:47] <Seveas_> highvoltage, *.telfort.nl is down
[21:47] <popey> Seveas_: sticking around?
[21:47] <Seveas_> and I'm off, need to save 3G bw for emergencies
[21:47] <Seveas_> apologies for not being there
[21:47] <popey> np
[21:47] <popey> it happens
[21:47] <highvoltage> any final questions for balto_?
[21:47] <Technoviking> Seveas_: no problem
[21:47] <popey> stgraber: ?
[21:48] <stgraber> nope
[21:48] <popey> stgraber: just waiting on your vote then :)
[21:49] <stgraber> +1
[21:49] <balto_> Thank you
[21:49] <Kletskous> Excuse me; dan I ask a question or am I disturbing something? I am new here and also don't know much about irc..
[21:49] <popey> thats 4, congrats balto_
[21:49] <highvoltage> balto_: congratulations and welcome!
[21:49] <balto_> Thanks Alan
[21:49] <rrnwexec1> congratulations Rex. well-deserved!
[21:50] <popey> Kletskous: yeah, there's a meeting right now, you might want to ask in #ubuntu-irc
[21:50] <balto_> Thank you Randall
[21:50] <Technoviking> Kletskous: please /join #ubuntu-irc and ask away:)
[21:50] <balto_> I feel like an American Idol contestent :D
[21:50] <roscoe> Way to go Rex
[21:50] <balto_> Thanks Roscoe
[21:51] <mimor> congrats balto_ you definitely deserve it!
[21:51] <highvoltage> balto_: bah, you're way better than that ;)
[21:51] <balto_> :D
[21:51] <highvoltage> mimor: around?
[21:51] <mimor> yes
[21:52] <popey> you're up.. a brief intro if you please
[21:52] <balto_> Thanks guys (and lady) have a great day. I'll just stick around to cheer Randall then, if you don't mind
[21:52] <mimor> I'm Mike, 23 working as at the helpdesk for al IT related stuff in Ghent (Belgium)
[21:52] <mimor> I've been supporting Ubuntu since late 2008
[21:53] <mimor> and I'm one of the more active members of my city
[21:53] <mimor> but I'm (not yet) a developer/coder/debugger
[21:53] <highvoltage> mimor: what kind of testing do you do?
[21:54] <mimor> I've got 2 laptops of my own and my desktop. I run mostly Beta's of ubuntu on them
[21:54] <mimor> then I have apport to create reports of crashes
[21:55] <mimor> I feels sorry I still can't debug them myself (lack of programmingskills)
[21:55] <highvoltage> mimor: I notice on https://bugs.launchpad.net/~mike-morraye-be/+reportedbugs that you haven't filed any bugs yet, what do you do when you find a problem during your testing?
[21:56] <mimor> I have apport to check against the launchpad db whether it's a new one or not
[21:56] <mimor> then almost every time, I just have to compare the results with existing ones and mark the bug as affecting me
[21:57] <mimor> but that's my main point of contributing
[21:57] <mimor> (far from it)
[21:58] <popey> we value testing immensely, there's not enough of it being done, but I'd like to see more documentation of a sustained contribution on your wiki page before going for membership, so I'm going to vote +0 for now.
[21:58] <highvoltage> mimor: I think you have the right attitude and that you're making some good contributions, but I think you need to solidify it a bit more, perhaps join the QA team and help out there, and get some of the people you work with to write up some testimonials on your wiki page
[21:58] <mimor> ok
[21:59] <popey> yeah, thats a great idea
[21:59] <mimor> This appliance was more some kind of finding out what's it all about
[21:59] <highvoltage> also a +0 from me, but I hope we see you soon in a few months
[21:59] <Technoviking> +0 for me also, I would like to see a larger body of work
[21:59] <popey> :) understood mimor
[21:59] <mimor> it'll take a little more than a few months
[21:59] <mimor> :)
[21:59] <mimor> but hey
[21:59] <Technoviking> mimor: hope to see you back
[21:59] <popey> keep going, we need more testers
[22:00] <mimor> the testing is something I realy like, but I don't have enough knowledge :s
[22:00] <mimor> so, it'll take more time
[22:00] <mimor> for now, I'll do some 'spreading the word'
[22:00] <popey> good stuff
[22:00] <mimor> feeling like a prayer
[22:00] <highvoltage> mimor: that's what joining the QA team could help a lot with, there are people there with lots of knowledge who will gladly share it
[22:00] <popey> ok, we're out of time but we still have rrnwexec1
[22:01] <mimor> can you point me in the right direction where to start joining the QA group?
[22:01] <popey> mimor: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/QATeam
[22:01] <mimor> thx
[22:01] <highvoltage> I don't think we're stepping over another meeting, I still have a few minutes
[22:01] <popey> np
[22:01] <popey> we are :)
[22:01] <Technoviking> there is a CC meeting, but the agenda is blank, so unless SABDFL shows up:)
[22:01] <popey> cc meeting, but there's nothing on it
[22:01] <mako> hmm
[22:01] <popey> anyway, I'm going to go directly with a massive +1 for rrnwexec1
[22:01] <highvoltage> we can continue until they have quorum
[22:01] <rrnwexec1> Hi, I'm Randall Ross :) I will try to be quick. thanks popey.
[22:02] <sabdfl> evening all
[22:02] <Technoviking> hey mako
[22:02] <Technoviking> and booms goes the dynamite
[22:02] <popey> hi sabdfl / mako, we're just finishing off the EMEA RMB
[22:02] <maco> hey mako's online
[22:02] <rrnwexec1> should i continue, or perhaps we should take this to another channel?
[22:02] <sabdfl> np popey, we have an easy agenda, can wait
[22:02] <sabdfl> keep going rrnwexec1
[22:02] <popey> cool, thanks
[22:02] <rrnwexec1> thanks
[22:03] <rrnwexec1> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RandallRoss
[22:03] <rrnwexec1> that's my page.
[22:03] <rrnwexec1> I'm an IT executive usually. I'm currently taking a sabbatical to work on some important projects. Ubuntu is firmly in this category.
[22:03] <rrnwexec1> I'm the Community Manager of the Ubuntu Vancouver LoCo. I'm also the Ubuntu Vancouver "Buzz Generator". I have been using Ubuntu exclusively my personal equipment since 2006.
[22:03] <rrnwexec1> taking questions now.
[22:04] <Technoviking> rrnwexec1: perhaps the largest amount of testimonials I have ever seen.
[22:04] <popey> yeah
[22:04] <rrnwexec1> thank you.
[22:04] <highvoltage> rrnwexec1: "Randall envisions Ubuntu as the "next big thing". It's not just another GNU/Linux variant"
[22:04] <highvoltage> rrnwexec1: what sets Ubuntu the most apart for you?
[22:04] <popey> you collecting them or something like Pokemon?
[22:04] <rrnwexec1> community, and a tremendous ethos.
[22:04] <rrnwexec1> community is the killer app for ubuntu.
[22:05] <rrnwexec1> and "Humanity" brings it to the level of hugely important.
[22:05] <highvoltage> +1 for similar reasons as balto_, great community work and a good example for other loco teams!
[22:05] <rrnwexec1> thank you.
[22:06] <highvoltage> stgraber / Technoviking ?
[22:06] <stgraber> an easy +1 here
[22:06] <Technoviking> rrnwexec1: does the Vancouver Loco have bigs plans for the Ubuntu 10.04 release
[22:06] <rrnwexec1> yes!
[22:06] <Technoviking> +1 here, great great work
[22:07] <balto_> PARTY!!!!
[22:07] <highvoltage> rrnwexec1: congratulations and welcome!
[22:07] <rrnwexec1> we are hosting "The Best Lucid Lynx Party in the World"
[22:07] <rrnwexec1> May 01
[22:07] <stgraber> ;)
[22:07] <popey> hah
[22:07] <rrnwexec1> I am previewing Lucid Lynx tomorrow night
[22:07] <balto_> and you are ALL invited
[22:07] <roscoe> yay for Ubuntu Vancouver 2 for 2!!!! Congrats Randall
[22:07] <highvoltage> rrnwexec1: even beating the 5000-people Paris parties?
[22:07] <rrnwexec1> i want to thank Rex and all the amazing members of Ubuntu Vancouver too. without our amazing community we wouldn't be where we are.
[22:07] <balto_> Congrats Randall!!
[22:08] <rrnwexec1> and SABDFL. thank you for making this whole thing.
[22:08] <popey> well I make that 4 votes, congratulations rrnwexec1, you're an inspiration
[22:08] <rrnwexec1> thank you all.
[22:08] <sabdfl> yw
[22:08] <balto_> We will beat them 10 to one, we weight a lot more :)
[22:08] <popey> and thus ends the EMEA RMB meeting
[22:08] <rrnwexec1> see you in Vancouver some day.. bye for now.
[22:08] <balto_> bye every one, thanks Mako for the wait
[22:09] <highvoltage> hi sabdfl, how are things?
[22:09] <sabdfl> groovy thanks, how are you Jonathan?
[22:09] <popey> thanks again Technoviking
[22:09] <sabdfl> popey: is that a wrap?
[22:09] <highvoltage> sabdfl: also groovy, thanks :)
[22:09] <popey> yup sabdfl
[22:09] <Technoviking> popey: no problem, glad to help
[22:11] <Technoviking> Anyone got anything they want to discuss with the CC?
[22:11] <sabdfl> #startmeeting
[22:11] <MootBot> Meeting started at 16:11. The chair is sabdfl.
[22:11] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[22:11] <popey> yes, Kletskous would like to raise the question of the release party in second life
[22:11] <popey> Kletskous is new to irc
[22:12] <Kletskous> oh yes, thank you popey
[22:12] <sabdfl> [TOPIC] 10.04 release party in Second Life
[22:12] <MootBot> New Topic:  10.04 release party in Second Life
[22:12] <sabdfl> go ahead Kletskous
[22:12] <Kletskous> I am Catharina and I've send an e-mail about this to the community council
[22:12] <RubenHaan> ah yeah that would be nice to have someone who cando a speach at secondlife for the selebration at secondlife
[22:13] <Kletskous> on May 1st we will do a release party for Lucid on SL (our Ubuntu Linux group in cooperation with the 4freedomgroup)
[22:14] <popey> what requirements would the speaker need, in order to join in?
[22:14] <Kletskous> we have musicians, a dj, gadgets and stuff but a speaker would be great
[22:15] <Kletskous> Well there are several ways of doing this; it can be done with an avatar on stage or with streaming video
[22:16] <sabdfl> if we have a speaker, they would be much better off if they were already comfortable with / regular users of second life
[22:16] <Kletskous> I there anyone of the community council familar with SL?
[22:16] <mako> so i think it sounds like a great idea
[22:16] <mako> but i've not used second life before
[22:16] <popey> I have used it
[22:16] <Kletskous> Well it depends. That is not needed when you do it with streaming video
[22:16] <highvoltage> Kletskous: is there a public list of ubuntu second life users somewhere?
[22:17] <popey> but only in terms of "installed client, went in, flew about a bit, noticed a lot of unsavoury stuff and an empty linux shop, and left"
[22:17] <RubenHaan> we as group in sl can also help ppl getting used to sl before the event
[22:17] <Kletskous> no, our group has about 1400 members but they all go under the name of their avatar..
[22:17] <Technoviking> popey: similar expereince here
[22:17] <digitalfiz> group lists for secondlife are not public
[22:18] <digitalfiz> im guessing to avoid spam
[22:18] <sabdfl> i think it would be a fun exercise for whoever took it up
[22:18] <sabdfl> but they'd need to devote a few hours to getting setup in advance, then clear some time before the actual event to make sure it was all groovy
[22:19] <popey> sounds like a job for jono :)
[22:19] <sabdfl> is there a URL with "get it working on Lucid" instructions?
[22:19] <Kletskous> no, but you can just download the official second life client and it will work
[22:19] <sabdfl> that sounds good enough
[22:19] <Kletskous> and register of course at the Lindens...
[22:20] <sabdfl> i'll take an hour this week and try to get up and running. if it goes smoothly, i'll be happy to speak.
[22:20] <digitalfiz> there are problems with sound and 64bit ubuntu because of pulseaudios horrible alsa plugin but i think the newest viewer has a more up to date openal that has direct pulseaudio support
[22:21] <Kletskous> great; contact me before you do, so we can asist you
[22:21] <Kletskous> Ruben Haan is Deruub Pastorelli in SL and I am Catharina Jacobus
[22:21] <sabdfl> i can't promise i'll be there because I can't take too much time to debug any issues that arise
[22:21] <sabdfl> Catharine - email addy?
[22:21] <Kletskous> please promis... :)
[22:22] <Kletskous> my mail is cath@freelancenetwerk.nl
[22:22] <sabdfl> ok, i had you as Bethlehem :-)
[22:22] <Kletskous> yes that is me irl
[22:22] <Kletskous> now everyone knows everything about me :)
[22:22] <sabdfl> welcome to the club :-)
[22:22] <popey> sabdfl: people in SL have alter-egos, and don't go by their real names. It's all very confusing :)
[22:23] <sabdfl> [ACTION] sabdfl to try to get up and running in SL, and speak if it goes smoothly
[22:23] <MootBot> ACTION received:  sabdfl to try to get up and running in SL, and speak if it goes smoothly
[22:23] <sabdfl> [TOPIC] Any other business?
[22:23] <Kletskous> Linden might make an exception for sabdfl for going on his real name.. but not sure
[22:23] <MootBot> New Topic:  Any other business?
[22:24] <Kletskous> ok great; thanks a lot and u too popey for the help
[22:24] <RubenHaan> jep you can ask lindenlab
[22:24] <mako> you're not *allowed* to use your real name?
[22:24] <Kletskous> they have fixed last names..
[22:25] <Kletskous> on opensim you can choose.. but we are not ready there yet to party
[22:25] <sabdfl> i'll cross that bridge when i get to it
[22:25] <highvoltage> eek, I can't remember under what e-mail I registered, I guess I'll just have to create a new profile
[22:26] <sabdfl> if there's nothing else, can we wrap up?
[22:26] <Kletskous> yes maybe easier to do that then highvoltage
[22:26] <popey> nothing here
[22:26] <Kletskous> our group's name is Ubuntu Linux - you can find it through search
[22:26] <Kletskous> or contact me for an invitation
[22:26] <Technoviking> nothinh here either
[22:27] <sabdfl> ok, that's a wrap
[22:27] <sabdfl> #endmeeting
[22:27] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 16:27.
[22:27] <sabdfl> thanks all!
[22:28] <mako> thanks everyone
[22:29] <RubenHaan> thnx
[22:29] <crimsun> digitalfiz: err, what?
[22:29] <crimsun> digitalfiz: what's this about 64-bit pulseaudio/alsa horrible-ness?
[22:30] <digitalfiz> well ive only noticed it with openal trying to use alsa through pulse
[22:30] <crimsun> digitalfiz: on current lucid?
[22:31] <crimsun> digitalfiz: because frankly, if it's on karmic, the proper approach is to ask for backports from lucid of alsa-plugins and openal-soft, and use PA from ppa:ubuntu-audio-dev.
[22:32] <crimsun> same goes for libsd1.2.
[22:32] <crimsun> libsdl1.2 *
[22:33] <digitalfiz> its been every version of ubuntu up to karmic i havent used lucid yet. the way i fixed it was i just compiled a newer version of openal which has direct pulseaudio support. i think it was just in the way openal used alsa which made pulse act up
[22:33] <crimsun> if you have further comments, feel free to catch me via e-mail (and/or to the ubuntu-audio-dev mailing list; see the team's LP page)