[14:26]  * Daviey wonders if he missed a memo.
[14:44] <persia> Daviey: Summer time maybe?
[14:46] <Omahn> Daviey: 3pm here I believe.
[14:46] <Omahn> as in UK.
[14:48] <Daviey> persia: Yep, my mistake..
[14:48] <Daviey> Omahn: thanks.
[14:49] <jiboumans> Daviey: all hail UTC :)
[14:49] <Daviey> jiboumans: UTC is great, 50% of the year :)
[14:50] <kirkland-mobile> when does the rest of the world switch to dst?
[14:52] <Daviey> kirkland-mobile: It never ceases to amaze how wikipedia can provide more information than you ever thought possible, about a simple issue.
[14:53] <kirkland-mobile> Daviey: : yeah, I will look it up later
[14:54] <zul> morning
[14:55] <zul> stupid farmers
[14:55] <Daviey> zul: It's clearly afternoon.. :)
[14:55] <zul> Daviey: yes in bizzaro world
[14:57] <hggdh> moin
[14:58] <kirkland-mobile> hi
[14:58] <ttx> o/
[14:59] <jiboumans> o/
[14:59] <alexm> o/
[14:59] <jjohansen> \o
[15:00] <Daviey> o/
[15:00] <smoser> \o
[15:00] <jiboumans> afternoon folks
[15:00] <jiboumans> or in bizzarro world, good morning
[15:00] <Daviey> heh
[15:00] <zul> hah
[15:00] <zul> dem fighting words
[15:01] <jiboumans> i'm having a call at the same time as this meeting, so ttx will be once again be your trusted leader
[15:01]  * jiboumans passes the buck
[15:01] <ttx> \o/
[15:01] <ttx> #startmeeting
[15:01] <MootBot> Meeting started at 09:01. The chair is ttx.
[15:01] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[15:01] <ttx> Agenda for today at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/Meeting
[15:01] <ttx> Scribe is smoser
[15:01] <ttx> [TOPIC] Review ACTION points from previous meeting
[15:01] <MootBot> New Topic:  Review ACTION points from previous meeting
[15:02] <smoser> i was hoping my name was left off the scribe list
[15:02] <ttx> smoser: nice try
[15:02] <ttx> can't find any action from last week
[15:02] <ttx> [TOPIC] Beta2 milestone release
[15:02] <MootBot> New Topic:  Beta2 milestone release
[15:03] <ttx> So Beta2 should be out tomorrow, server so far looking good
[15:03] <ttx> No more beta2-targeted bugs to fix, which is good
[15:03] <ttx> A few work items left for Beta2 @ http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-server-ubuntu-10.04-beta-2.html
[15:04] <ttx> mathiaz, kirkland, hggdh, ttx: please comment on feasibility of those last items by the end of the day
[15:04] <mathiaz> ttx: I'll resume publishing the blog post today
[15:04] <kirkland-mobile> okay
[15:04] <ttx> server-lucid-apt-mirror-ec2: one work item left, blocked on IS delivery, no update that I know of, will have to be postponed
[15:05] <ttx> kirkland: you have "Sign off on B2 candidate tests"
[15:05] <ttx> kirkland: and " 	announce why kqemu "went away" in Ubuntu"
[15:05] <kirkland-mobile> will do both today
[15:05] <ttx> hggdh: you have "Perform tests on B2 candidate", is it under way ?
[15:06] <ttx> jiboumans: no news from IS on the new EC2 mirrors ?
[15:06] <jiboumans> ttx: not yet; sent a follow up to James Troup, but nothing yet
[15:06] <hggdh> ttx: I have been unable so far, battling kernel oopses on my laptoip
[15:07] <mathiaz> hggdh: you can use the hardware in the DC
[15:07] <jiboumans> kirkland-mobile: clearly 'sign off' depends on 'perform tests' :)
[15:07] <mathiaz> hggdh: I'm not using the UEC test rig for now
[15:07] <ttx> hggdh: those B2 tests are about ruynning them on the DC testrig anyway
[15:07] <hggdh> mathiaz: I will try it now, laptop stayed on all night without a oops
[15:08] <ttx> hggdh: I suspect your laptop doesn't have to stay up for the duration of the tests ?
[15:08] <ttx> hggdh: please coordinate with mathiaz/kirkland on that, those tests need to be run today (or never)
[15:08] <kirkland-mobile> byobu/screen FTW
[15:08] <hggdh> ttx: the problem I was having to whole day yesterday was for the laptop to stay on. period
[15:08] <ttx> heh
[15:09] <ttx> Last thing about beta§2 we have to discuss is "Ramdisk vs. no-ramdisk for cloud images"
[15:09] <ttx> smoser: please explain the new situation quickly
[15:09] <smoser> well, we're hoping for no ramdisks for beta-2.  In all my tests (and ttx), the images boot successfully without ramdiks.
[15:10] <smoser> yesterday i removed ramdisk from publishing of EC2 images (20100107), but failed to do so for UEC images.  20100107.1 should be out in 90 minutes or so with that change inside.
[15:10] <ttx> So the idea is to have candidates up with "noramdisk", test the heck out of them
[15:10] <ttx> on every single cloud you can put your hands on
[15:10] <ttx> if the results are satisfying by the end of the day, we'll keep them, otherwise we'll revert
[15:11] <ttx> (late in smoser's night)
[15:11] <smoser> if you want to test with no ramdisk, just to make sure you don't hit the previous hang (bug 531494) you can do so easily with 'uec-publish-image --ramdisk=none'
[15:11] <ttx> smoser: does that sound like a plan ?
[15:11] <smoser> that sounds like a plan to me.
[15:11] <ttx> comments ?
[15:11] <smoser> so far it is infinitely more stable than it was in beta-1 without ramdisk.
[15:11] <ttx> Basically we want to give noramdisk a last chance
[15:12] <kirkland-mobile> just registering todays image will give no ramdisk?
[15:12] <ttx> kirkland: no
[15:12] <kirkland-mobile> or are there special instructions?
[15:12] <ttx> the current one you have to use smoser's command (see #ubuntu-server)
[15:13] <ttx> but new ones should nbe up in 90min
[15:13] <smoser> kirkland-mobile, registering todays image 20100107 will register a ramdisk
[15:13] <smoser> registering 20100107.1 will not (that is due in 90minutes)
[15:13] <kirkland-mobile> ttx: thought it might be nice to have in the log here
[15:13] <smoser> or, alternativley use '--ramdisk=none'
[15:13] <smoser> on your uec-publish-tarball command line
[15:13] <kirkland-mobile> smoser: right, thanks
[15:14] <ttx> uec-publish-image --ramdisk=none image.tar.gz lucid-20100407-noramdisk amd64
[15:14] <ttx> ok, next up
[15:14] <kirkland-mobile> uec-publish-tarball is awesome, btw
[15:14] <ttx> [TOPIC] RC/Final preparation
[15:14] <MootBot> New Topic:  RC/Final preparation
[15:14] <ttx> Release is at the end of the month
[15:14] <ttx> Here are the priorties until then:
[15:14] <ttx> 1/ Release-critical  bugs
[15:15] <ttx> 2/ # Continued specs (eucalyptus-merging, uec-testing, puppet-ec2)
[15:15] <ttx> 3/ Lucid targets of opportunity
[15:15] <ttx> You can find a list of release-critical bugs and targets of opportunity at:
[15:15] <ttx> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/ReleaseStatus
[15:16] <ttx> The RC bugs in that list take precedence over the spec work.
[15:16] <ttx> Note that FinalFreeze is next week
[15:16] <ttx> So that leaves little room for non-critical bugfixes :)
[15:16] <ttx> Please pay special attention during triage days to catch release-critical issues
[15:17] <ttx> We'll have a sudden influx of server lucid bugs after beta2
[15:17] <ttx> we need to catch regressions and upgrade bugs early
[15:17] <ttx> don't hesitate to subscribe me to those with a note, when you stumble on one
[15:17] <jiboumans> +1 on that; we have our triage days set. don't miss them, don't prioritise over those
[15:18] <ttx> Also we'll have to spend a common effort on openldap, we know there are a few issues around it, and mathiaz won't have the time to fix everything by himself
[15:18] <ttx> so once beta2 is out we'll do some triage/upgrade-bugfix o that
[15:18] <zul> whats wrong with openldap again?
[15:18] <ttx> zul: go triage the openldap bugs and find out :P
[15:19] <mathiaz> zul: we need to make sure that upgrade from hardy to lucid are working correctly
[15:19] <mathiaz> zul: the sticky point is the conversion from slapd.conf cn=config
[15:19] <ttx> Is everything clear on those priorities ? feel free to catch up with me or jib in case anything is unclear
[15:19] <zul> clear
[15:20] <ttx> let's make tyhis a stellar release, we enter the last run
[15:20] <ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
[15:20] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the QA Team (hggdh)
[15:20] <ttx> hggdh: o/
[15:21] <hggdh> no new from me, execpt that stress testing was fine until day before yesterday ;-)
[15:21] <ttx> hggdh: ISO testcases look better now
[15:21] <hggdh> thanks to you, BTW
[15:22] <ttx> smoser, hggdh: the EC2 testcases still show "'multiple instances" and "single instance" rather than "multiple instances" and "userdata"
[15:22] <smoser> oh? i'll get that fixed.
[15:22] <mathiaz> ttx: are the iso test cases covered now?
[15:22] <ttx> We should fix that before the next respin
[15:22] <mathiaz> ttx: ie should set aside some time to run my iso testing scrips on the candidates?
[15:23] <mathiaz> ttx: should *I* set
[15:23] <ttx> mathiaz: I think we can achieve good coverage without you
[15:23] <mathiaz> ttx: great! thanks
[15:23] <hggdh> mathiaz: I have been running them on the rig
[15:23] <Daviey> hggdh: Would there be merit in blogging for community How to QA'ing + Test cases, and the tracker info.
[15:23] <ttx> Daviey: there would
[15:23] <hggdh> Daviey: it is a good idea, this is the correct moment
[15:23] <ttx> ara is usually blogging about that
[15:24] <mathiaz> Daviey: I think ara made a call for testing already
[15:24] <ttx> anything else for QA ?
[15:24] <hggdh> not from me
[15:24] <ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
[15:24] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly Updates & Questions for the Kernel Team (jjohansen)
[15:24] <ttx> hggdh: thanks !
[15:24] <ttx> jjohansen: hi
[15:24] <jjohansen> hi
[15:25] <ttx> I don't think we have any issues open with kernel now, everything was fixed
[15:25] <jjohansen> so I have Bug #532553 targeted for post beta2
[15:25] <jjohansen> and that is it atm
[15:25]  * kirkland-mobile points hggdh at jjohansen about his kvm oopses
[15:26] <jjohansen> ah, yeah kirkland-mobile would
[15:26] <kirkland-mobile> :)
[15:26] <jjohansen> yes I will be looking into kvm oops, and we will see what we can find
[15:26] <mathiaz> jjohansen: when is kernel final freeze/upload?
[15:27] <ttx> I think it's passed already
[15:27] <jjohansen> next week
[15:27] <jjohansen> it hits a couple days before everyone elses
[15:27] <ttx> Ah you don't mean kernelfreeze
[15:27] <jjohansen> no
[15:27] <ttx> finalkernelfreeze ;)
[15:28] <ttx> anything else for kernel ?
[15:28] <smoser> jjohansen, kirkland-mobile is there a bug for kvm oops ?
[15:29] <ttx> I think hggdg has one
[15:29] <ttx> hggdh, even
[15:29] <kirkland-mobile> smoser: yes, ask hggdh for it
[15:29]  * kirkland-mobile can't look it up atm
[15:29] <ttx> bug 556919
[15:29] <kirkland-mobile> I suspect that it's cpu model specific
[15:30] <jjohansen> smoser: there are a couple Bug #444365, Bug #458201, Bug #556919

[15:30] <mathiaz> hggdh: while doing uec testing you may run into bug
[15:30] <mathiaz> hggdh: bug 556833
[15:31] <ttx> ok, moving on
[15:31] <mathiaz> ttx: ^^ this is the fails to reboot
[15:31] <mathiaz> bug
[15:31] <ttx> mathiaz: was wondering if it wasn't the grub location preseeded value
[15:31] <ttx> but had no time to look into it
[15:31] <mathiaz> ttx: may be
[15:31] <mathiaz> ttx: we can discuss it later
[15:32] <ttx> since it seems not to be able to find grub .. and netbooting showed some swapping of /dev/sd[ab]
[15:32] <ttx> [TOPIC] Weekly SRU review: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#SRU%20weekly%20review  (mathiaz)
[15:32] <MootBot> New Topic:  Weekly SRU review: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTeam/KnowledgeBase#SRU%20weekly%20review  (mathiaz)
[15:32] <mathiaz> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
[15:32] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.latest.html
[15:33] <mathiaz> anything worth SRUing on this list?
[15:33] <zul> nope
[15:34] <ttx> nope
[15:34] <ttx> mathiaz: sounds like an outdated list ?
[15:34] <ttx> "fixed from 2010-03-20 to 2010-03-29"
[15:35] <mathiaz> ttx: yes indeed
[15:35] <mathiaz> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.2010-04-05.html
[15:35] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ubuntu-server-team/fixedbugs.ubuntu-server.2010-04-05.html
[15:35] <mathiaz> ^^ this one is empty
[15:35] <mathiaz> so I guess the script broke :/
[15:35] <Daviey> Last modified: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 00:07:48 GMT
[15:36] <mathiaz> There aren't any bugs nominated for the dapper,hardy,intrepid,jaunty,karmic
[15:36] <mathiaz> That's all for the SRU process then
[15:36] <ttx> cool
[15:36] <mathiaz> [ACTION] mathiaz to fix the fixedbugs script
[15:36] <mathiaz> ttx: ^
[15:36] <ttx> [ACTION] mathiaz to fix the fixedbugs script
[15:37] <MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to fix the fixedbugs script
[15:37] <ttx> [TOPIC] Call for Maverick blueprints
[15:37] <MootBot> New Topic:  Call for Maverick blueprints
[15:37]  * mathiaz suggest improving MootBot to allow users to record actions for themselves
[15:37] <ttx> So in a little more than one month we'll have UDS again !
[15:37] <ttx> So it's time to start thinking about what you want to work on for the Maverick cycle
[15:38] <ttx> And filing blueprints about those
[15:38] <mathiaz> ttx: what's the naming scheme for the blueprint name?
[15:38] <ttx> (That's mostly a community call, the Canonical server team will work on a wikipage before creating those)
[15:38] <ttx> server-maverick-*
[15:38] <ttx> and set Jos Boumans as the approver
[15:39] <Daviey> ttx: w.u.c or w.c.com?
[15:39] <mathiaz> Daviey: blueprint.lp.net
[15:39] <Daviey> (no, reference to wikipage0
[15:39] <mathiaz> Daviey: w.u.com - as usual
[15:40] <ttx> Daviey: the brainstorm of what we want to do as a team will probably be on a private wiki, but we'll file the results just after
[15:40] <mathiaz> Daviey: we don't write any specs in w.c.com
[15:40] <ttx> on wiki.u.com and blueprint.lp.net
[15:40] <Daviey> great.
[15:40] <mathiaz> ttx: why use w.c.c?
[15:40] <mathiaz> ttx: and not follow the blueprint.lp.net process?
[15:40] <ttx> Daviey: we usually have plenty of ideas but reality bites us :)
[15:41] <kirkland-mobile> desktop has theirs in w.u.c
[15:41] <ttx> mathiaz: sync with jib, he set up the page
[15:41] <mathiaz> ttx: ok
[15:41] <Daviey> oh sure, if it's commercially related blueprints - keep them on the prvate wiki :)
[15:41] <ttx> maybe I misread the link
[15:41]  * ttx checks
[15:41] <jiboumans> ttx: you did not
[15:41] <jiboumans> i'm scheduling a brainstorm call next week
[15:41] <jiboumans> the results will be published on w.u.c
[15:42] <jiboumans> i requested the input to be on w.c.c
[15:42] <mathiaz> jiboumans: why the input needs to be on w.c.c?
[15:42] <jiboumans> Daviey: as you noted, some are commerical or have commercial implications
[15:43]  * kirkland-mobile has to drop...later.
[15:43] <Daviey> jiboumans: ok.
[15:44] <ttx> [TOPIC] Open Discussion
[15:44] <MootBot> New Topic:  Open Discussion
[15:44] <ttx> Please shoot
[15:45] <RoAkSoAx> Cluster Packages are getting into Debian. Those include ivoks changes... they should be hitting Debian unstable soon, though I'm not sure if they are going to do so in time for us to sync/merge
[15:45] <mathiaz> RoAkSoAx: what's the state of the cluster stack in lucid then?
[15:45] <ttx> RoAkSoAx: they are still in universe ?
[15:46] <mathiaz> I also had a suggestion: drop the dovecot-postfix package
[15:46] <mathiaz> for lucid
[15:46] <RoAkSoAx> mathiaz, ttx cluster-agents, cluster-glue, heartbeat are still in universe
[15:46] <ttx> mathiaz: why?
[15:46] <RoAkSoAx> due to library split need. This is done already in debian
[15:46] <mathiaz> the implementation is not so great (using a different configuration file) to the poin that upstream filed a bug to modify dovecot to check for our alternate configuration file
[15:46] <RoAkSoAx> but as I just checked, they have been uploaded to unstable yesterday :).
[15:47] <Daviey> mathiaz: Is dovecot-postfix broken?  It seems nuts to drop it otherwise?
[15:47] <mathiaz> a lot of user were complaning that changing dovecot.conf doesn't work
[15:47] <ttx> RoAkSoAx: what's the current state of the cluster stack in lucid ?
[15:47] <mathiaz> which makes sense as dovecot-postfix is using dovecot-postfix.conf instead
[15:47] <ttx> ivoks, ScottK: any opinion on what mathiaz proposes ?
[15:48] <mathiaz> so now Ubuntu is known in the upstream community as: are you using Ubuntu? if so change dovecot-postfix.conf instead of dovecot.conf
[15:48] <RoAkSoAx> ttx, Well currently, 3 packages are still in universe (cluster-glue, cluster-agents, heartbeat). cluster-glue needed library split, which is done in debian
[15:48] <mathiaz> bug 511295
[15:48] <mathiaz> is the bug from upstream
[15:48] <RoAkSoAx> so we would need to sync them
[15:49] <RoAkSoAx> cluster-agents, and heartbeat were waiting for this library split to be able to upload them to main
[15:49] <Daviey> considering dovecot-postfix was a target for jaunty.. it seems a shame to throw away the work.
[15:49] <mathiaz> LTS being maintainedfor 5 years I don't think it would be a good idea to provide a package that uses a *different* configuration file for 5 years
[15:50] <ttx> mathiaz: yes, an email thread about that might be a good idea
[15:50] <mathiaz> Daviey: well - the idea is good - the implementation proved to be not so great
[15:50] <ttx> [ACTION] mathiaz to propose removal of dovecot-postfix on MLs
[15:50] <MootBot> ACTION received:  mathiaz to propose removal of dovecot-postfix on MLs
[15:50] <mathiaz> we tried - it's an LTS - let's back it off and give another try
[15:51] <RoAkSoAx> ttx, I'll review debian packages, to file sync bugs and apply proper Ubuntu changes if any
[15:51] <mathiaz> another point: zul how is mysql-server-5.0 removal going?
[15:51] <ttx> RoAkSoAx: is it currently broken ? As in, main packages depending on universe packages ? Critical bugs ?
[15:51] <zul> mathiaz: should be ready to go after the freeze is lifted
[15:51] <RoAkSoAx> ttx, it is not broken. Is up an running without library split and latest fixes
[15:51] <mathiaz> and third point
[15:51] <mathiaz> another proposal: drop the ubuntu-serverguide from the archive
[15:52] <ttx> RoAkSoAx: ok. Because it's quite late for non-critical fixes
[15:52] <ttx> mathiaz: rationale ?
[15:52] <mathiaz> sommer: hadn't had time to keep it up-to-date
[15:52] <ttx> mathiaz: we reviewed it recently, it's not that bad
[15:52] <mathiaz> and not having an up-to-date server guide is confusing at least for our users
[15:52] <Daviey> ttx: Does ANYBODY use it?
[15:52] <sommer> mathiaz: I did find time to get most of the major updates in
[15:52] <mathiaz> (see the ldap section for karmic)
[15:53] <ttx> I think the ldap section is the notable exception, rather than the rule
[15:53] <sommer> mathiaz: I'm working on an SRU for that
[15:53] <ttx> and Iwouldn't throw away the baby with the bath water
[15:53] <sommer> mathiaz: and the Lucid instrustions work for karmic
[15:53] <RoAkSoAx> ttx, well the packages that just hit Debian have many fixes, both in upstream and packaging. On the other hand, MIR for cluster-glue was rejected due to library split, which is now in Debian. Cluster-agents, Heartbeat MIRs were rejected too due to its dependency with cluster-glue.
[15:53] <mathiaz> ttx: may be - if so then my  proposal has a *lot* less weight
[15:53] <zul> ttx: i have to update landscape-client next week as well
[15:54] <mathiaz> I still think that the server guide is a great peace of work
[15:54] <ttx> RoAkSoAx: no time now, but we'll continue this discussion
[15:54] <mathiaz> and we should keep maintaining it
[15:54] <mathiaz> I'm just not sure if it should made available as a package
[15:54] <ttx> [ACTION] ttx to follow up with ivoks/RoaKSoax on cluster stack state
[15:54] <MootBot> ACTION received:  ttx to follow up with ivoks/RoaKSoax on cluster stack state
[15:54] <mathiaz> it may be worth discussing it at the next UDS
[15:54] <ttx> mathiaz: sounds late to change direction on that
[15:55] <mathiaz> the content is great - I'm not convinced about the form
[15:55] <ttx> mathiaz: but agreed for future release
[15:55] <sommer> mathiaz: I agree, and should have more time this cycle to do update... day job had a lot of projects coming to a close during the lucid cycle :-)
[15:55] <mathiaz> ttx: right - for lucid dropping the package from the archive seems the only solution for now
[15:56] <mathiaz> ttx: but if the guide is up-to-date
[15:56] <mathiaz> ttx: then it may be worth keeping in the archive
[15:56] <ttx> mathiaz: I think it's good enough.
[15:56] <mathiaz> ttx: ok
[15:56] <ttx> and if not bugs should be filed against it :)
[15:56] <ttx> ok, let's wrap up
[15:57] <Daviey> On another note, are people keeping an eye out to sponsor other peoples work into the archive
[15:57] <ttx> Next meeting, next week, same UTC time, same place
[15:57] <ttx> Daviey: we should all have at least 1 hour of sponsoring time  per week
[15:58] <mathiaz> I'm going through the sponsoring queue every Thursday
[15:58] <mathiaz> http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/
[15:58] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/sponsoring/
[15:58] <ttx> ok, closing the meeting now, feel free to continue discussion on #ubuntu-server
[15:58] <ttx> #endmeeting
[15:58] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 09:58.
[15:58] <Daviey> I was just looking over that
[15:58] <mathiaz> ^^ for packages listed here under the -server seed
[15:58] <Daviey> super.
[16:01]  * mvo looks around
[16:02] <ev> hi
[16:02]  * tremolux waves at mvo
[16:03] <cjwatson> hi
[16:04] <cjwatson> Keybuk: poke chair
[16:04] <mvo> hi
[16:04]  * slangasek waves
[16:05] <Keybuk> cjwatson: two seconds ;)
[16:05] <Keybuk> dealing with last minute Activity Report flurry
[16:06] <Keybuk> ok
[16:06] <Keybuk> #startmeeting
[16:06] <MootBot> Meeting started at 10:06. The chair is Keybuk.
[16:06] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[16:06] <Keybuk> [LINK] Meeting Agenda https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2010/0407
[16:06] <MootBot> LINK received:  Meeting Agenda https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoundationsTeam/Meetings/2010/0407
[16:06] <Keybuk> slangasek: AR nag
[16:07] <Keybuk> doko__, lool: ping and AR nag
[16:07] <Keybuk> james_w: ping
[16:07] <cjwatson> Keybuk: last-minute> *cough*
[16:07] <cjwatson> hey, really creative fiction takes time
[16:07] <james_w> hello
[16:07] <doko__> Keybuk: meeting pong
[16:08] <Keybuk> [TOPIC] Lightning Round
[16:08] <MootBot> New Topic:  Lightning Round
[16:08] <Keybuk> Order: mvo, slangasek, doko, cjwatson, tremolux, ev, lool, james_w, Keybuk
[16:08] <mvo> done: software-center bugfixing, update-manager fixes, upgrade reports review
[16:08] <mvo> todo: focus on upgrade issues and remaining sotware-center bugs
[16:08] <mvo> (done)
[16:11] <slangasek> done: plymouth bug fixing, beta-2 warm-up, got meself a script to batch-load the AMI #s onto the ISO tracker so I don't have to add 12 of them one at a time
[16:11] <slangasek> todo: beta-2 release :)
[16:11] <slangasek> (done)
[16:11] <doko__> openjdk & sun-java security builds, test failure debugging on the buildbots,  icedtea plugin debugging, upgrade fixes for ca-certificates-java, python-central, trying to start the archive rebuild, gcc-4.5 packages updated (branched!)
[16:11] <doko__> (done)
[16:12] <cjwatson> done: Launchpad patch to restrict bug transitions away from "Won't Fix"; display init script output by default on server boot; kicked off foundations planning for 10.10; yet more partitioner bug-fixing
[16:12] <cjwatson> todo: adjust partitioner free space handling following alignment changes; per-package exceptions to package set administration; d-i translation sync; possibly try to land ubiquity-common package split
[16:13] <cjwatson> p.s. Launchpad ec2 testing is not actually *that* hard to set up and lets you do LP work without having to do the heroic dependency setup
[16:13] <cjwatson> (done)
[16:13] <tremolux> Continued software-center bug fixes and triage.
[16:13] <tremolux> Currently working on two bugs related to channel updating (LP: #542892, LP: #556995).
[16:13] <tremolux> (done)
[16:13] <ev> done: lots of bug fixing
[16:13] <ev> in progress / todo: melting my brain in ubiquity's page history code, fixing whatever bugs arise from CD testing
[16:13] <ev> (done)
[16:16] <Keybuk> lool appears to be absent, james_w: you're up
[16:16] <james_w> Done: lots of improvements to launchpad code imports, and especially their API, sponsoring.
[16:16] <james_w> In progress/todo: more sponsoring, using the API once I have it all landed to stretch the code imports system.
[16:16] <james_w> (done)
[16:17] <Keybuk> done: nice break over easter, got plymouth & mountall fixed up last week
[16:17] <Keybuk> todo: catching up with my bugs folder
[16:17] <Keybuk> --
[16:18] <Keybuk> [TOPIC] Outstanding actions from last meeting
[16:18] <MootBot> New Topic:  Outstanding actions from last meeting
[16:18] <Keybuk> I don't see any since 03-10
[16:18] <Keybuk> if nobody thinks they have any outstanding items, let's move on :)
[16:18] <Keybuk> [TOPIC] Outstanding feature freeze exceptions
[16:18] <MootBot> New Topic:  Outstanding feature freeze exceptions
[16:18] <Keybuk> slangasek: ?
[16:19] <slangasek> well, /I/ don't have any outstanding feature freeze exceptions :)
[16:19] <Keybuk> do you have a list of anyone else's? :)
[16:20] <slangasek> no
[16:20] <Keybuk> anyone else want a freeze exception today? :p
[16:20] <mvo> all mine got rejected…
[16:22] <doko__> Keybuk: hmm, do these have to be discussed in the meetings?
[16:22] <Keybuk> if you want
[16:22] <Keybuk> let's move on
[16:23] <Keybuk> [TOPIC] Milestoned bugs
[16:23] <MootBot> New Topic:  Milestoned bugs
[16:23] <Keybuk> [LINK] https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+bugs?field.milestone:list=21447
[16:23] <MootBot> LINK received:  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+bugs?field.milestone:list=21447
[16:23]  * doko__ is getting the rejections on private channels by slangasek ...
[16:23] <Keybuk> again, not really sure what we're supposed to do here ;)
[16:23] <slangasek> notice that there are bugs, then fix them! :)
[16:23] <cjwatson> slangasek: is there any particular reason to respin at this point?  if not, I was planning on moving the installer bugs there to final
[16:24] <slangasek> http://people.canonical.com/~cjwatson/task-assignments/ubuntu-10.04-beta-2.html shows precious little for the foundations team
[16:24] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://people.canonical.com/~cjwatson/task-assignments/ubuntu-10.04-beta-2.html shows precious little for the foundations team
[16:24] <cjwatson> I haven't updated that page this week, careful
[16:24] <slangasek> oh
[16:24] <cjwatson> (sorry)
[16:24] <cjwatson> we've been hammering away on the beta-2 installer bugs, and recently got a new contributor to the KDE frontend who unexpectedly showed up with a batch of fixes, so that helped
[16:24] <slangasek> well, the official list doesn't show much either :)
[16:25] <slangasek> maybe we could pitch in on the outstanding arm porting bugs that keep being carried over between milestones?
[16:25] <slangasek> (though I tried to start on one and found the description of what needed doing so vague that I gave up for the time being)
[16:26] <cjwatson> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/Thumb2 may be helpful
[16:26] <slangasek> cjwatson: particular reason to respin> I haven't seen one so far, but I also haven't had a chance to absorb the latest ISO tracker status since waking up
[16:27] <cjwatson> I looked through the Ubuntu bugs and nothing made me scream.  I haven't looked at the others
[16:29] <Keybuk> ok
[16:29] <Keybuk> I'm going to skip targeted bugs and sponsorship ;)
[16:29] <Keybuk> [TOPIC] Good News
[16:29] <MootBot> New Topic:  Good News
[16:30] <Keybuk> slangasek: the fact I'm not working until 4am every day this week, compared to β1, seems to be good news :p
[16:30] <slangasek> I would say so :)
[16:30] <cjwatson> I did a pass through queued-up packageset permissions and synced up Launchpad with a bunch of them, which should cause slightly fewer people to scream at me
[16:30] <slangasek> Keybuk: any insight into our frequently-duped plymouth sigsegv?
[16:30] <cjwatson> ftp-master.d.o is back \o/
[16:31] <slangasek> I'm not sick this week \o/
[16:32] <Keybuk> slangasek: I haven't seen anything about that
[16:32] <doko__> populate-archive for the rebuild test is still running on cocopluum
[16:32] <slangasek> Keybuk: bug #533745
[16:32] <cjwatson> doko__: fast tools are great, aren't they
[16:32] <slangasek> hmm
[16:32] <slangasek> Keybuk: bug #553745
[16:33]  * slangasek blinks himself a little more awake
[16:33] <Keybuk> that sounds like a kind of "dangling handler pointer" bug
[16:33] <Keybuk> that's going to be impossible to debug, unless someone who can gdb through plymouth can replicate it
[16:34] <slangasek> indeed
[16:35] <Keybuk> ok, we're well into AOB now
[16:35] <Keybuk> [TOPIC] AOB?
[16:35] <MootBot> New Topic:  AOB?
[16:35] <cjwatson> mumble seems pretty nice; it would be good if more people hung out in the foundations team room there
[16:35]  * ev would love to, but is currently blocked on IS
[16:35] <cjwatson> you can basically just leave it open and push-to-talk when you feel like it
[16:36] <slangasek> the feedback between my built-in mic and speakers is bad enough that I'm using my headset, which means I'm only using it when my headset is plugged in
[16:37] <cjwatson> bug 515023 is nasty; while there's USB-protocol-level investigation going on upstream, I'm wondering if it would make sense to disable that udev rule on devices that seem to be affected
[16:37] <cjwatson> this seems to be USB 3.0 and Firewire so far; there's an ambiguous comment about USB 2.0
[16:38] <cjwatson> the rule is, IIRC, not normally critical to correct system operation
[16:41] <cjwatson> ... ok, maybe I'll go over it when at Scott's tomorrow
[16:41] <Keybuk> yeah
[16:41] <Keybuk> ok
[16:41] <Keybuk> [TOPIC] Chair for next meeting
[16:41] <MootBot> New Topic:  Chair for next meeting
[16:42] <Keybuk> ...don't all volunteer at once :p
[16:42] <ev> I'll do it
[16:42] <Keybuk> ok
[16:42] <Keybuk> #endmeeting
[16:42] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 10:42.
[16:43] <mvo> thanks
[16:43] <ev> thanks!
[16:43] <tremolux> good day all!
[16:43] <slangasek> thanks!
[17:57]  * ara waves
[17:57]  * bdmurray waves
[17:57] <pedro_> hey hey
[17:58]  * bladernr \0o/
[17:58] <bdmurray> bladernr: what happened to you? ;-)
[17:58] <ara> bladernr and his twin wave
[17:58] <bladernr> the local military base sprays too many chemtrails
[17:59] <bladernr> I grew a second head
[17:59]  * fader_ waves.
[17:59] <ameetp> o/
[18:00] <sbeattie> hey
[18:00] <fader_> marjo is on holiday today so he has asked me to start the meeting
[18:00] <schwuk> hi
[18:00] <fader_> So...
[18:00] <fader_> #startmeeting
[18:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is fader_.
[18:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[18:01] <fader_> Agenda:
[18:01] <fader_>     * SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
[18:01] <fader_>     * Bug Day status -- pvillavi
[18:01] <fader_> [TOPIC]  SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
[18:01] <MootBot> New Topic:   SRU testing -- sbeattie (Steve Beattie)
[18:01] <sbeattie> SRU Activity report for the past week (since 2010-03-31):
[18:01] <sbeattie> * karmic: 7 new packages in -proposed (keepalived, linux-fsl-imx51, obexd, sun-java6, tzdata, usbmount, vsftpd)
[18:01] <sbeattie>       and 2 packages pushed to -updates (libdvdnav, tzdata)
[18:01] <sbeattie> * jaunty: 2 new packages in -proposed (sun-java6, tzdata)
[18:01] <sbeattie>       and 2 package pushed to -updates (tzdata, xfce4-weather-plugin)
[18:01] <sbeattie> * intrepid: 1 new package in -proposed (tzdata)
[18:01] <sbeattie>         and 1 package pushed to -updates (tzdata)
[18:01] <sbeattie> * hardy: 5 new packages in -proposed (debian-installer, exim4, pyclutter, sun-java6, tzdata)
[18:01] <sbeattie>      and 2 packages pushed to -updates (tzdata, xfce4-weather-plugin)
[18:02] <sbeattie> * dapper: 1 new package in -proposed (langpack-locales)
[18:02] <sbeattie>       and 7 packages pushed to -updates (clamav, dansguardian, gurlchecker, havp, klamav, langpack-locales, python-clamav)
[18:02] <sbeattie> Thanks to Artur Rona, Paul Elliott, Andres Rodriguez, Tomasz Melcer, Lollerke, Oreste Salerno, Soos Gergely, and P3P for testing SRUs this week.
[18:02] <sbeattie> That's all I've got on the SRU front this week.
[18:02] <RoAkSoAx> sbeattie, I've tested usbmount and keepalived already, left feedback on bug reports :)
[18:03] <sbeattie> RoAkSoAx: ah, yeah, saw your feedback, thanks for doing that!
[18:03] <RoAkSoAx> sbeattie, glad to help :)
[18:03] <fader_> Any other SRU-related questions/comments?
[18:03]  * sbeattie needs to do some hackery to translate from bug report email address to irc nick.
[18:04] <fader_> Okay, thanks sbeattie!
[18:04] <fader_> [TOPIC]  Bug Day status -- pvillavi
[18:04] <MootBot> New Topic:   Bug Day status -- pvillavi
[18:04] <fader_> pedro_: Hi
[18:04] <pedro_> hey fader_
[18:04] <pedro_> so On Thursday 01  we had a bug day based on Nautilus:
[18:05] <pedro_> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20100401
[18:05] <pedro_> ~50 bugs were triaged that day, Thanks a lot to our hug days heroes: hernejj, kamusin, charlie-tca, qense, nalimilan and dgtombs
[18:05] <bdmurray> sbeattie: that should be possible using launchpadlib I think
[18:05] <pedro_> Tomorrow we're having a bug day for Rhythmbox https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/20100408
[18:06] <pedro_> There's plenty of bugs to be triaged so if you have some time and want to learn a bit more about bug triage join us, we'll be glad to help you to start
[18:06] <pedro_> and again if you have an idea or want us to organize a bug day for clean up a package on Ubuntu , just let us know and add that idea to the planning page
[18:06] <pedro_> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/Planning
[18:06] <MootBot> LINK received:  http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/Planning
[18:06] <pedro_> that's all from here Mr. fader_
[18:07] <fader_> :)
[18:07] <fader_> Any questions or comments about bug days?
[18:07] <fader_> Thanks pedro_!
[18:07] <fader_> [TOPIC] AOB?
[18:07] <MootBot> New Topic:  AOB?
[18:07] <fader_> Any other business?
[18:08] <ara> fader_, blueprints for UDS!
[18:08] <fader_> It looks like the agenda didn't get updated for today, so if there are any topics that should be discussed but didn't make it onto the agenda, feel free to speak up about them
[18:08] <fader_> ara: Indeed!  Do you have any info about due dates, etc.?
[18:09] <ara> fader_, no, but there are people already proposing topics for the qa track
[18:09] <ara> people coming to uds can start proposing topics at https://blueprints.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-m
[18:10] <ara> as usual, please, name blueprints with qa-m-whatever, so we can find them easily
[18:10] <fader_> Thanks ara!
[18:11] <fader_> Anything else?
[18:12] <fader_> Doesn't seem to be :)
[18:12] <hggdh> heh
[18:12] <fader_> Thanks everyone!
[18:12] <fader_> #endmeeting
[18:12] <MootBot> Meeting finished at 12:12.
[18:12] <pedro_> thanks
[20:01] <highvoltage> hi!
[20:02] <bencrisford> hello!
[20:02] <highvoltage> I think we can keep this fairly short,
[20:03] <highvoltage> technical from my side:
[20:03] <highvoltage>  * edubuntu-artwork is currently not installed on latest build, should be fine on next build
[20:03]  * stgraber waves in the right channel this time ;)
[20:04] <stgraber> uploaded the fix for that one and poked slangasek about it, hope to have a rebuild quite soon
[20:04] <highvoltage>  * bug 557519 is quite serious since it makes ltsp uninstallable, I'm not sure how to troubleshoot it further so any help is welcome there
[20:04] <highvoltage> stgraber: great, thanks
[20:04] <alkisg> Hi all
[20:04] <bencrisford> alkisg: hi
[20:04] <highvoltage>  * we still don't have the new edubuntu logo or ubuntu font, so our artwork is still rather incomplete
[20:05] <highvoltage> besides all of that, we're more or less ok from what I can see from a technical perspective.
[20:06] <highvoltage> anyhing else worth noting from a technical perspective?
[20:07] <highvoltage> bencrisford: you added some agenda items,
[20:07]  * highvoltage gives bencrisford the mic
[20:07] <bencrisford> highvoltage: indeed i did :)
[20:08] <bencrisford> i added some points about the advocacy team
[20:08] <bencrisford> last week we established that were gonna need to find some contributors somewhere
[20:09] <bencrisford> so basically we need to sort out where and how..
[20:09] <bencrisford> after that
[20:09] <bencrisford> once the release is out of the way
[20:09] <bencrisford> i think the advocacy team needs some attention
[20:09] <bencrisford> and then we could maybe find a way of sharing marketing material amongst contributors
[20:09] <bencrisford> maybe a lp branch?
[20:09] <highvoltage> yes that's probably the best way to do it
[20:09] <bencrisford> i dont know about distribution though
[20:11]  * Lns waves
[20:11] <bencrisford> does anyone have any ideas how we can attract contributors to the project?
[20:11] <bencrisford> hi Lns :)
[20:11] <highvoltage> bencrisford: here's an old post from Mark Shuttleworth to the Schooltool list: http://lists.schooltool.org/pipermail/schooltool/2004-August/000531.html
[20:11] <bencrisford> the bug day i think probably helped show people where we are
[20:12] <highvoltage> bencrisford: I like referring to that message because he explains that school admin isn't very 'sexy', as in, it's not something that's very glamerous that attracts lots of volunteer developers
[20:12] <alkisg> Lots of schools need little customizations, like remixes. If we made a web site where they could customize edubuntu (e.g. a ppa with metapackages which would be added in ubiquity) then we could attract some teams
[20:13] <highvoltage> bencrisford: I think edubuntu is kind of similar, people find it a somewhat boring subject, and I think we need to find a way to make it more exciting
[20:13] <bencrisford> highvoltage: i can definately see where you're coming from :)
[20:13] <alkisg> From the user perspective, a dialog in ubiquity where it could select "i'm a greek school, add the greek ppa in my sources and install the greek metapackages" => this would attract teams, but I don't know if we want to handle that.
[20:14] <Lns> You know what worked really well for me is school customization itself - simple things like a custom LDM theme that shows the name of their school. It helps provide a sense of ownership to the students AND staff.
[20:14] <bencrisford> in my opinion though, edubuntu isnt a boring project at all.  we dont have to make it "seem" more exiting we just have to explain "why" its exciting
[20:14] <Lns> They really liked little things like that
[20:15] <highvoltage> alkisg: since recently, something similar is actually possible in ubiquity
[20:15] <alkisg> highvoltage: really? haven't seen that...
[20:16] <highvoltage> alkisg: it actually supports tasks, or at least, something very close to it, mythbuntu has a plugin that does it that we want to recycle for edubuntu in maverick
[20:16] <highvoltage> alkisg: it could be changed to install some localisation meta-packages as well
[20:16] <alkisg> Right, that would attract a lot of schools to make their own metapackages/tasks with all the stuff they need
[20:17] <alkisg> ...and I suppose after selecting/using edubuntu, they'd also contribute to it
[20:17] <highvoltage> alkisg: it's something that could be explored, some people are a bit sceptical about ppa's, and there are some support issues around it, but yes, something that can be explored
[20:20] <bencrisford> i think we just need to let people know what difference they can make by contributing
[20:20] <highvoltage> alkisg: another way to get more contributors is getting more people from other ubuntu teams involved
[20:20] <highvoltage> woops, I aimed that at bencrisford
[20:21] <bencrisford> lol
[20:21] <alkisg> :)
[20:21] <highvoltage> we include a large number of kde packages, so we could perhaps get some more kde folks involved
[20:21] <bencrisford> i think edubuntu is one of the most important projects in the ubuntu scope :)
[20:21] <bencrisford> JackLD who is sometimes around on #edubuntu uses it to educate aids orphans
[20:22] <Lns> Honestly, and I mean this with no offense or anything like that, but do you guys think that just by telling people that we're out there is going to make them want to contribute their time and energy?
[20:22] <bencrisford> Lns: we tell them, and we convince them :)
[20:22] <Lns> I mean, some people sure.. but we need to make people want to contribute because THEY are gonna get something back :)
[20:22] <Lns> not just for the sake of contributing..
[20:22] <bencrisford> Lns: i think most ubuntu people are happy if other people are getting something back as well
[20:22] <Lns> well of course
[20:23] <highvoltage> Lns: right, we've also run into problems before where someone purely wanted to contribute because they thought it would get them a job at Canonical
[20:23] <bencrisford> its like people give to charity
[20:23] <highvoltage> Lns: I think it's ideal when someone can contribute and scratch their own itch
[20:23] <alkisg> I think that the people that have the technical expertise to contribute, already know what they need to know about edubuntu
[20:23] <Lns> highvoltage, right...everyone has a motivation to contribute, and very few are just because they want to for others
[20:24] <bencrisford> alkisg: its not all about technical expertise, we need triagers and artists too
[20:24] <highvoltage> Lns: but in terms of getting something back, I think it should be clear that it's a community and volunteer project and that with volunteering there usually comes some degree of selflessness
[20:24] <Lns> Take me for example, I do this for a living. I love contributing to the project and I will continue to do so, but I'm getting paid from schools to do it as well, so it's in MY best interest to help the community so we can ALL have better tools to work with
[20:25] <highvoltage> Lns: indeed, more people in your position would be great
[20:25] <bencrisford> Lns: if you got a new job, or retired im sure you would continue contributing if you could
[20:25] <bencrisford> so.. :/
[20:25] <Lns> highvoltage, exactly. I love helping everyone else with whatever I can, but if I was a construction worker I wouldn't be coming home and contributing to edubuntu in my own time ;)
[20:25] <Lns> well I would, but not nearly as much
[20:26] <Lns> not that i do a whole hellofalot right now ;) but I do whatever I can and I try to stay as active as possible
[20:27] <Lns> It's a prerequisite that someone wants to contribute to a community if they're going to do so. But there has to be something else there, something tangible that they get from it
[20:27]  * bencrisford is wondering why we have gone from talking about advocacy, to Lns becoming a construction worker :P:P:P
[20:27] <highvoltage> Lns: can you provide an example?
[20:27] <Lns> if we really want to get some quality contributors devoting a lot of time to the project
[20:27] <Lns> highvoltage, example of?
[20:27] <alkisg> (that's why I was saying about the ppa thing, they'd get an ubiquity dialog == their own remix in return)
[20:27] <highvoltage> Lns: something tangible that someone would expect
[20:28] <Lns> highvoltage, oh. Well, let's say a new GUI tool to manage workstations such as sch-scripts that alkisg is working on.
[20:28] <Lns> You work on a project because it helps you do a better job
[20:28] <highvoltage> Lns: yes, that's what I'd call a scratch-your-own-itch kind of contribution
[20:29] <Lns> and giving it away to everyone else in a similar situation is so awesome because then THEY don't have to reinvent the wheel, and they can contribute updates and stuff to it. It's so awesome to see that.
[20:29] <bencrisford> none of my ubuntu work does that, but it makes me feel good.  the qcad menu bug im working on atm, i dont care about, i dont use qcad.  but i know that if i fix it, loads of people in a few weeks are gonna download lucid and be able to click "qcad"
[20:29] <bencrisford> it doesnt bother me if no-one thinks of me staying up late wondering why fixing the .desktop file doesnt sort it
[20:29] <highvoltage> We should certainly put together some plans around this, it's great that you're bringing this up bencrisford, because we haven't given enough attention to it
[20:30] <highvoltage> something to think about for when we start the new release cycle
[20:30] <Lns> bencrisford, right - that's indirect because you know more people will download it and more people will become involved that use qcad
[20:30] <highvoltage> Any other items for this meeting?
[20:30] <Lns> did i miss the whole meeting? :(
[20:31] <bencrisford> Lns: its been a short one
[20:31] <Lns> ah
[20:31] <highvoltage> Lns: all of the technical part
[20:31] <bencrisford> just some technical stuff and bugs
[20:31] <highvoltage> but yes, purposely keeping it short! :)
[20:31] <Lns> oh ok i won't bring anything up then! =p
[20:32] <bencrisford> doesnt bother me, im missing waterloo road :P
[20:32] <highvoltage> Lns: heh, you can if you want to, but if it needs lots of discussions and isn't urgent we can do it at the next one instead :)
[20:32] <Lns> it's fine i'll bring it up in #edubuntu
[20:33] <highvoltage> ok that's it for this meeting then, thanks everyone
[20:33] <highvoltage> *bong*
[20:33] <alkisg> Thank you all
[20:34] <bencrisford> see you all back on #edubuntu :)