[00:00] <JontheEchidna> bla
[00:00] <JontheEchidna> yeah, most likely :(
[00:01] <apachelogger> meh
[00:01] <apachelogger> just when I had an easy bug on my assigned list :(
[00:02] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna++
[00:02] <apachelogger> beautiful code :)
[00:02] <JontheEchidna> :)
[00:02] <apachelogger> awesome to read this after days of ugly codes
[00:02] <JontheEchidna> which class are you admiring, if I may ask?
[00:03] <apachelogger> installevent
[00:03] <apachelogger> not the largest of classes though ;)
[00:03] <apachelogger> just beautiful to look at
[00:03]  * apachelogger doenst dare looking at the hook ^^
[00:04] <JontheEchidna> heh
[00:04] <JontheEchidna> hook got better, thanks to amachai
[00:04] <apachelogger> inocnsistency!
[00:04] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: hook sometimes puts oneline if's into brackets and sometimes not
[00:04] <apachelogger> whiles are all without breakets
[00:05]  * apachelogger notes that in his opinion it is much easier to read with brackets
[00:05] <JontheEchidna> hook is also the only class to have 3 authors :P
[00:06] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: some emtpy lines in the large if monsters would probably help wonders
[00:06] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: take a look at astyle
[00:06] <apachelogger> wonderful tool
[00:06] <apachelogger> they use it on kdelibs
[00:06] <apachelogger> you can find the kdelibs options somewhere in techbase I think
[00:06]  * apachelogger will use that on the date&time kcm soon
[00:07] <JontheEchidna> I think what we're using is pretty close to what amarok's doing, but amarok does that spaces-inside-parenthesis thing, and we don't
[00:07] <apachelogger> because that also got like 3 authors, but like 5 different code styles ;)
[00:07] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: how about specing a kubuntu code style guide?
[00:08] <JontheEchidna> for UDS?
[00:08] <apachelogger> yep
[00:08] <JontheEchidna> or for maverick in general?
[00:08] <JontheEchidna> kk
[00:08] <apachelogger> well
[00:08] <apachelogger> UDS == UDS + general
[00:08] <JontheEchidna> I'm not quite sure how to get a blueprint to be a "UDS-official" spec
[00:08] <apachelogger> and we really should brainstorm on getting rid of the installevent stuff and move it to kde(libs)
[00:09] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: mark it for that sprint
[00:09] <apachelogger> and get it discussed by someone ;)
[00:09] <JontheEchidna> how do I get it on the schedule, I suppose is the question
[00:10] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: I think there is a wiki page on blueprinting
[00:10] <apachelogger> IMHO blueprinting is way too much limited on usage in UDS context though
[00:10] <apachelogger> then again the lp UI is so crappy you wouldnt want to use it every day ;)
[00:15] <apachelogger> omg
[00:15] <apachelogger> the screensaver configuration stuff dates back to 1996
[00:17] <JontheEchidna> that means it was written in KDE2 and forgotten
[00:18] <apachelogger> no, KDE 1!!!
[00:18] <apachelogger> and then got ported along :)
[00:18] <apachelogger> old != bad
[00:18] <JontheEchidna> probably ported with qt1to2
[00:18] <JontheEchidna> then promptly forgotten ;)
[00:18] <apachelogger> no
[00:19] <JontheEchidna> knetworkconf is an example of that happening with qt3to4
[00:19] <apachelogger> well, a bad example
[00:19] <apachelogger> TBH the screensaver kcm is a good example of how code can be maintained for that long
[00:19] <apachelogger> some compability libs are used
[00:20] <apachelogger> but other than that it doesnt look THAT bad
[00:20] <apachelogger> oh
[00:20] <apachelogger> our mm patches are still bugged
[00:21]  * apachelogger totally forgot about that
[00:22]  * apachelogger loves it how the systray goes bonkers when you restart kded ^^
[00:35]  * apachelogger thinks the installevent hates him
[00:50] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Specs/MaverickCodestylePolicy
[01:01] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: I think we should only use // style comments
[01:02] <apachelogger> that /**/ stuff is odd IMHO
[01:02] <JontheEchidna> that's apidocs stuff
[01:02] <apachelogger> also limiting to // helps with consistent code appearance a bit
[01:02] <JontheEchidna> you'll only see /**/ in headers
[01:02] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: what is apidocs stuff?
[01:02] <JontheEchidna>  /**/
[01:03] <apachelogger> no, those are C multiline comments :P
[01:03] <apachelogger> and in the presented code examples they are used outside headers
[01:03] <JontheEchidna> which are used as doxygen syntax in headers
[01:03] <JontheEchidna> ooh, the AmarokProcIO one
[01:03] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: that sure can be configured
[01:03] <tsimpson> doxygen can use // comments too :)
[01:04] <apachelogger> see :P
[01:04]  * apachelogger would opt for // only, and only that
[01:04] <tsimpson> the only time I think /* */ is justified is for large comment blocks, like the license block in a header
[01:04] <tsimpson> simply because it's easier when writing it
[01:05] <apachelogger> no one writes license blocks though :D
[01:05] <apachelogger> they get copied
[01:05] <JontheEchidna> apidocs can get a bit long winded, depending on what's being documented
[01:06] <JontheEchidna> but I agree that in .cpp files there should never be any non-license /**/
[01:06] <tsimpson> well, by "writing" I mean /*\nCtrl-V\n*/
[01:07] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: ok, so lets go for // except for api documentation which must be /**/
[01:07] <tsimpson> I think doxygen defaults to /** for C, and /** or /// for C++
[01:08] <tsimpson> so both could work, although writing api docs with /** is a little easier
[01:08] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: ideally /*\n [3 space indent] blah\n [3 space indent ]blahblah\hn */
[01:09] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: that said, maybe api documentation should be enforced too?
[01:09] <JontheEchidna> I'm all for that
[01:10] <apachelogger> groovy
[01:11] <apachelogger> http://people.ubuntu.com/~apachelogger/screencasts/kscreensaverinstall.ogv
[01:11] <apachelogger> also note how the name is nicely localized in the notifications (unlike the other implemetations of the patch ;)
[01:12] <JontheEchidna> ;)
[01:12] <apachelogger> question is if we want to break string freeze for that
[01:13] <JontheEchidna> kdesudo is huge liek xbox localized
[01:13] <apachelogger> its not the most prominent string though ... only the name of the thing to be installed
[01:13] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: there is a bug in kdesudo too
[01:13] <apachelogger> it doesnt render the command for some reason
[01:13] <apachelogger> that always happens in combination with kdesudo --- foo -- I think
[01:13] <JontheEchidna> yeah, it gets cut off after a few args
[01:14] <JontheEchidna> MaverickCodestylePolicy updated
[01:14] <apachelogger> maybe it tries to parse te first -- or something
[01:14]  * apachelogger notes that kdesudo needs some love to get rocking with the codestyle ;)
[01:15] <JontheEchidna> ;)
[01:15] <JontheEchidna> did you see what I did with the use case names ;D
[01:16] <apachelogger>         // Default constructor
[01:16] <apachelogger>         Queuelist(QWidget *parent, const char *name = 0);
[01:16] <apachelogger>         // Default destructor
[01:16] <apachelogger>         ~QueueList();
[01:16] <apachelogger> policy violation :P
[01:17] <apachelogger> /*
[01:17] <apachelogger>    Default constructor
[01:17] <apachelogger> */
[01:17] <apachelogger> and the like for destructor
[01:17] <JontheEchidna> probably needs @param in there too for the constructor
[01:17] <apachelogger> yeah
[01:17] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: the slots format is messed up
[01:18] <JontheEchidna> carriage return in the wrong place, my fault
[01:19] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: I should be contributor ;)
[01:19] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: done
[01:19] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: the copyright part implies that we create gpl-only software
[01:20] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: do we want a specific licensing policy?
[01:20] <apachelogger> + it should be ensured that for each used license there is a complete copy stored along the source
[01:20] <apachelogger> too easy to forget
[01:21] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: well, we could enforce KDE licensing
[01:21] <JontheEchidna> 'specially since Riddell's a big part of the KDE licensing policy team
[01:21] <apachelogger> yep
[01:21] <JontheEchidna> "Use KDE licensing policy, beotches
[01:21] <JontheEchidna> "
[01:21] <apachelogger> ^^
[01:22] <tsimpson> you should probably specify if(...) vs. if (...), that's always a favourite :)
[01:22] <apachelogger> http://techbase.kde.org/Policies/Licensing_Policy
[01:22] <apachelogger> true
[01:22] <apachelogger> if ()
[01:22] <apachelogger> works way better for long conditions
[01:23] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: what do you think?
[01:23] <JontheEchidna> Personally I like if ()
[01:23] <tsimpson> and the same for "for", "while" and "case"
[01:23] <apachelogger> yeah, applies to all that funky stuff
[01:23] <tsimpson> er "switch", not "case"
[01:23] <apachelogger> on a related note
[01:24] <JontheEchidna> zomg, the examples there use if()
[01:24] <apachelogger> brackets for oneliners, or not?
[01:24]  * apachelogger finds it much better to use brackets all and everywhere
[01:24] <tsimpson> my rule is, no brackets unless there is an else
[01:24] <JontheEchidna> brackets for consistency, imo
[01:24] <apachelogger> well, you need the brackets > 1 line anyway :S
[01:25] <JontheEchidna> *brackets everywhere for consistency
[01:25] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: it also is quicker to add stuff
[01:25] <apachelogger> and one cant forget about making them
[01:25] <JontheEchidna> plus it makes it clear what belongs to that statement
[01:25] <tsimpson> I man one-line if's, but you could but it all one one line anyway, if (foo) bar();
[01:25] <JontheEchidna> instead of relying on whitespace
[01:25] <tsimpson> s/man/mean/
[01:25] <apachelogger> tsimpson: ah
[01:26] <ScottK> apachelogger and JontheEchidna: Doesn't KDE have a coding style guide?  Can we just use that?
[01:26] <apachelogger> ScottK: no they dont
[01:26] <apachelogger> well
[01:26] <ScottK> Oh.
[01:26] <JontheEchidna> only for kdelibs
[01:26] <apachelogger> for kdelibs they have
[01:26] <JontheEchidna> But this is very similar
[01:26] <ScottK> OK.  Why not use that?
[01:26] <apachelogger> not suited for apps IMHO
[01:26] <ScottK> Instead of merely being "similar"
[01:26] <ScottK> Why?
[01:26] <apachelogger> ScottK: because amarok also derived from it ;)
[01:27] <apachelogger> for example IIRC it features a 2 space indent, which IMHO is just horrible
[01:27] <apachelogger> no indeed it is 4 ^^
[01:27] <ScottK> Much easier when upstream just provides standard advice everyone can use (e.g. Python and PEP-8)
[01:28] <JontheEchidna> Our style is fully compliant with kdelibs, just with some more things specified
[01:28] <JontheEchidna> http://techbase.kde.org/Policies/Kdelibs_Coding_Style
[01:28] <apachelogger> ScottK: ours is more complete
[01:28] <apachelogger> indeed it implements the kdelibs style by a 100%
[01:28] <ScottK> OK.
[01:28] <JontheEchidna> actually, kdelibs is using 4 space indent from the astyle command they give
[01:29] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: [02:27:49] <apachelogger> no indeed it is 4 ^^
[01:29] <apachelogger> :P
[01:29] <JontheEchidna> oh
[01:29] <JontheEchidna> ^_^
[01:29] <apachelogger> though I think it was 2 at some point or maybe I am confusing projects here
[01:29] <apachelogger> anyhow
[01:29] <JontheEchidna> kdelibs also gives an opinion on one-line if statements
[01:29] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: it has some explicit statements that are worth adding to our style
[01:29] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: yeah, like Qt includes
[01:29] <apachelogger> Use blank lines to group statements
[01:29] <apachelogger> Use only one empty line
[01:30] <apachelogger> No space after a cast
[01:30] <apachelogger> all very sensible things :)
[01:30] <apachelogger> Each variable declaration on a new line
[01:30] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: ^^
[01:30] <apachelogger> uberimportant to mention
[01:31] <JontheEchidna> eek, using endl in a kDebug() statement is not good practice. must fix the example
[01:31] <JontheEchidna> why must amarok use it's custom debug class? :(
[01:31]  * apachelogger notes that a team member from his most recent cpp exercise had a line that was like ... foo* bar, foobar, blah;
[01:31]  * apachelogger almost fell over from that
[01:32] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: it doesnt anymore I think
[01:32] <apachelogger> in KDE 3 they had one because KDebug was essentially crap and mxcl came up with a much better thingy
[01:32] <apachelogger> I think that debug class is now also used in the lastfm client
[01:33] <JontheEchidna> they were using it in recent kde4 times, I know
[01:33]  * apachelogger notes to create an astyle script once the spec is accepted
[01:33] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: then I really dont know, there must be some fancy advantage to it though
[01:33] <JontheEchidna> well, it's not beyond 'em to... overengineer things a tad from time to time ;)
[01:34] <JontheEchidna> but that's why it's Amarok, ya love it or hate it
[01:34] <apachelogger> ^^
[01:35] <apachelogger> nothing compared to lancelot though
[01:36] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: lancelot has a python meta-ui compiler. :S
[01:36] <JontheEchidna> combining the crappiness of .ui-like systems and python
[01:37] <apachelogger> lol, awesome :D
[01:37] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: http://paste.ubuntu.com/410789/
[01:37] <apachelogger> I made you addPackages function useful :P
[01:37] <JontheEchidna> \o/
[01:37] <apachelogger> +    m_screensaverPackages["kscreensaver"] = i18n("Set of default screensavers");
[01:37] <JontheEchidna> a teeny tiny string...
[01:37] <JontheEchidna> hrm
[01:37] <JontheEchidna> decisions
[01:38] <apachelogger> IMHO getting one more item of my assigned list is worth that string :P
[01:38] <apachelogger> + chances are that most users will not see it anyway, systemsettings is a way too scary name ^^
[01:38] <JontheEchidna> as long as you can get the red tape out of the way, I'm fine with it
[01:38] <JontheEchidna> it has the potential for awesome
[01:39] <apachelogger> well, once the freeze is over
[01:39]  * apachelogger also needs to fix the other patches anyway
[01:39] <apachelogger> they need to obtain the translated programName somehow
[01:40] <apachelogger> hardcoding that stuff scared me quite a bit last time I stumbled upon them
[01:40] <apachelogger> in fact
[01:40] <apachelogger> I think last time == when I implemented that stuff for konqueror
[01:40]  * apachelogger checks the konq patch
[01:41] <apachelogger> +  dbusargs.append(KonqFactory::aboutData()->programName());
[01:42] <apachelogger> see, I am a magician ;)
[01:42] <JontheEchidna> ;)
[01:42] <apachelogger> well, if implemented that properly, maybe I fixed dragon on the way
[01:42] <JontheEchidna> dbusargs.append("Dragon Player");
[01:42] <apachelogger> omg
[01:43] <apachelogger> kaffeine also carries that patch?
[01:43] <JontheEchidna> epic phail
[01:43] <apachelogger> then I think amarok, dragon and kaffeine need fixing
[01:43] <JontheEchidna> dbusargs.append("Dragon Player");
[01:43] <JontheEchidna> er
[01:43]  * apachelogger is not going to care about arora which probably also got that patch
[01:43] <JontheEchidna> dbusargs.append("Kaffeine");
[01:43] <apachelogger> yeah
[01:43] <JontheEchidna> stupid klipper
[01:43] <apachelogger> will fix that after freeze
[01:44] <JontheEchidna> does amarok have localized names?
[01:44] <apachelogger> no
[01:44] <JontheEchidna> not too big of a deal then, but it wouldn't hurt to fix it
[01:45] <ScottK> So what does the kdelibs style lack?
[01:45] <apachelogger> I probably wont be able to sleep becaue of this :P
[01:45] <apachelogger> kubotu: time
[01:45] <kubotu> apachelogger: Europe - Vienna - Thu Apr 08 02:45 CEST
[01:45]  * apachelogger is sure going t be glad when he can upload all the stuff fixed in https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/~apachelogger/+assignedbugs
[01:47] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: how to name member variables, general function-naming guidelines, header include order, const correctness guidelines
[01:47] <ScottK> OK.
[01:47] <ScottK> Instead of replicating much of the kdelibs style, how about making the spec kdelibs style, plus this stuff.
[01:48] <ScottK> Any of that stuff a candidate for adding to the kdelibs style?
[01:49] <JontheEchidna> I think there are advantages to having it all listed out in one location
[01:51] <shtylman> Riddell: I posted my brainstorming ideas under your name :) ... didn't notice that before
[01:51] <shtylman> also.. did ya get my ui file?
[01:52] <JontheEchidna> shtylman: actually, a lot of that stuff probably isn't Riddell. I saw a lot of other peeps in the last-edited field that dont' have a name listed
[01:53] <JontheEchidna> well, maybe not a lot, but
[01:53] <JontheEchidna> a few anyways
[01:53] <shtylman> JontheEchidna: good...im not alone :)
[01:57] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: That's true, but I can also imagine it being more work to maintain
[01:58] <JontheEchidna> Good style is good style. Can't change too much, I don't think
[01:58] <JontheEchidna> http://www.madatoms.com/site/blog/lost-spin-offs <-this
[01:59] <JontheEchidna> I'd totally watch "Rulers" and "Pros and Cons"
[01:59] <JontheEchidna> Clucks 'n Bucks too, since Hurley is awesome
[04:38] <ScottK> apachelogger: The krandrtray thing doesn't revert either here.
[09:37] <agateau> Riddell: ping
[09:39] <Riddell> hi agateau
[09:39] <agateau> Riddell: two things I'd like to see with you
[09:39] <agateau> 1. I noticed krandrtray uses non-standard entries in its ksni menu
[09:39] <agateau> it uses bold to indicate selected resolutions instead of radio buttons
[09:40] <agateau> but bold is not supported with dbusmenu, so there is no way to tell which menu item is selected
[09:40] <agateau> is it too late to include a fix for that?
[09:40] <agateau> where fix can be either:
[09:41] <agateau> port to radio buttons
[09:41] <agateau> disable dbusmenu for krandrtray (like I did for knm)
[09:42] <agateau> Riddell: what do you think?
[09:46] <Riddell> may as well do it properly and port to radio buttons I'd think
[09:46] <agateau> ok
[09:47] <agateau> if it's possible to get it into lucid, I am going to work on it
[09:47] <Riddell> yes it would be possible
[09:47] <agateau> great
[09:47] <Riddell> unless nixternal has UI freeze issues but I doubt it's something we have explicitly documented
[09:48] <agateau> ok
[09:48] <agateau> I guess I can work on it anyway, the worse thing which could happen is having it only in kde 4.5
[09:50] <agateau> Riddell: 2. have you seen the gsoc messages from Daniel Holbach?
[09:50] <agateau> Riddell: I am not sure I am the right person to answer them
[09:50] <agateau> (meaning, you are probably more qualified ;) )
[09:51] <apachelogger> Riddell, agateau: mind the patch policy
[09:51] <apachelogger> no that knradrtray had much of an active upstream from what I saw :(
[09:51] <apachelogger> s/no/not
[09:51] <agateau> apachelogger: patch policy?
[09:51]  * agateau feels like he is about to learn about something he should know
[09:52] <apachelogger> agateau: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Specs/LucidPackaging
[09:52] <apachelogger> see Design part
[09:52] <apachelogger> you just confirmed my statement that it is not visible nough though ^^
[09:53] <agateau> :)
[09:53] <agateau> ok, no problem with this
[09:53] <agateau> I would expect this patch to be easily upstreamed
[09:54] <apachelogger> agateau: just apply it there as well ;)
[09:54] <apachelogger> the code there is so ugly no one would care if you rm the whole thing ^^
[09:54] <agateau> code in krandrtray?
[09:55] <apachelogger> krandr* as a whole
[09:55] <agateau> I've seen much worse
[09:55] <apachelogger> no doubt
[09:55] <apachelogger> but I have an easly upset stomach
[09:55] <agateau> :)
[09:55]  * agateau has too many scars from ugly code to be easily upset
[09:55] <apachelogger> agateau: if you get a minute or two please have a look at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Specs/MaverickCodestylePolicy
[09:56] <apachelogger> Riddell: ^ too please
[09:56] <apachelogger> it's mostly a combination of the kdelibs and amarok policies with some additional explicit requirements
[09:57] <agateau> it really looks like a copy of kdelibs coding style
[09:58] <agateau> Only I am not sure about kdelibs policy wrt indenting Q_OBJECT and public: blocks in classes
[09:58] <apachelogger> our spec says 90chars/line, kdelibs says 100 ;)
[09:59] <agateau> sounds like bike shedding (90 vs 100) :/
[09:59] <apachelogger> dont be silly :P
[09:59]  * apachelogger wants 80
[09:59] <apachelogger> !
[09:59] <apachelogger> ^^
[09:59] <agateau> yeah, and max 5 lines per function!
[10:00] <apachelogger> 50
[10:00] <apachelogger> I would be bribable to go up to 75 for C-only code ;)
[10:00] <Sput> ugh, I can't read amarok source, there's way too much whitespace in it
[10:00] <Sput> vertical whitespace, mostly
[10:00] <Sput> that's why you need the 5 line limit!
[10:02] <Riddell> agateau: yes I'll handle the gsoc e-mails
[10:02] <agateau> Riddell: ok great
[10:04] <Riddell> apachelogger: I'm not sure why we need a code style policy, if we're modifying existing code then go with the existing codestyle, else use Qt policy same as KDE
[10:05] <apachelogger> Riddell: for our stuff only ... Qt and KDE styles feel to unprecise
[10:05] <agateau> I agree with Riddell
[10:05] <agateau> If it's good enough for kdelibs, it should be good enough for Kubuntu, no ?
[10:08] <apachelogger> Riddell, agateau: ScottK suggested that we coudl reference the kdelibs style and add addtional stuff (instead of currently reproducing it mostly)
[10:08] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna thought it might be good to have the list all in one place
[10:09] <apachelogger> Sput: you could run sed before reading ;)
[10:09]  * agateau would make the page a link to kdelibs page
[10:09] <Sput> apachelogger: or just not read such badly formatted code :P
[10:09] <apachelogger> lol
[10:09] <apachelogger> if you have the choice
[10:10]  * apachelogger never has and constantly ends up crying
[10:10]  * agateau hugs apachelogger
[10:13] <agateau> ok, krandrtray is more standard now
[10:13] <agateau> testing all options hurts the eyes =(
[10:14]  * apachelogger rehugs agateau
[10:16] <debfx> is it just me or doesn't krandrtray save the settings anymore? it doesn't even use the auto resolution by default :(
[10:27] <apachelogger> debfx: needs rewrite
[10:28] <apachelogger> debfx: or rather, needs to be changed to use kephal
[10:28] <apachelogger> though I am not exactly sure what kephal is meant to do , since it doesnt do anything right now
[10:28] <apachelogger> well, nothing other than watching for xrandr changes and emitting signals about that ^^
[10:30] <debfx> Riddell: what have you decided to do with the brightness patch?
[10:30] <debfx> I'd like to upstream it but I don't know where to put the osdwidget class so it can be used by kmix and the battery applet
[10:35] <Riddell> debfx: yes it should be upstreamed
[10:36] <Riddell> debfx: since there's no obvious upstream to attend to it I suggest just posting to kde-core-devel
[10:48] <debfx> Riddell: ok, what about lucid? either the old patch should be dropped or updated to the new one
[11:01] <apachelogger> \o/
[11:01]  * apachelogger just spent 94 EUR on train tickets
[11:02] <apachelogger> emonkey: on may 20 I am from 7:20 until sometime in the afternoon in zurich!
[11:02] <apachelogger> after traveling for 12 hours or so  :D
[11:07] <Riddell> debfx: I'd like to update it but only after there's been agreement on kde-core-devel that it's a good thing
[11:13] <Mamarok> apachelogger: even better: bring emonkey to Randa :)
[11:13] <apachelogger> emonkey: be prepared to get kidnapped
[11:14] <apachelogger> Riddell: bug 558333 please
[11:17] <Riddell> apachelogger: that only recommends screensavers from the screensaver module?  it doesn't recommend to install screensavers from amarok?
[11:17] <apachelogger> Riddell: right
[11:17] <Riddell> groovy
[11:18] <apachelogger> the screensavers from a whole different set of install types, so one needs to call the dbus interface with a package from that set to trigger recommendatin of the set :)
[11:18]  * Riddell approves
[11:18] <apachelogger> thanks
[11:23]  * Mamarok wonders what screensavers from Amarok would be...
[11:24] <apachelogger> Mamarok: nothing, it is just that one can easily use that code in a wrong way and end up with amarok recommending installation of screensavers ;)
[11:24] <Mamarok> sounds funny :)
[11:25] <apachelogger> well, currently it recommends installation of libdvdread which is not too sensible either IMHO
[11:26] <apachelogger> hm
[11:26] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: I have but one question ... why does the current knh from lucid contain a build dir? :P
[11:26] <apachelogger> anyhow
[11:27] <apachelogger> not in sync with bzr :(
[11:37] <CIA-6> kubuntu: Harald Sitter <apachelogger@ubuntu.com> * rapachelogger@ubuntu.com-20100408103733-3c7fu52g92svzf5n kdebase-workspace/debian/ (3 files in 2 dirs):
[11:37] <CIA-6> kubuntu: Add kubuntu_02_screensaver_restricted_install.diff to recommend installation
[11:37] <CIA-6> kubuntu: of kscreensaver package via k-n-h (LP: #273667)
[11:42] <CIA-6> kubuntu: Harald Sitter <apachelogger@ubuntu.com> * rapachelogger@ubuntu.com-20100408104238-2odrc2rx5abo9em3 kdebase-workspace/debian/ (7 files in 2 dirs): merge with parent
[12:03] <apachelogger> mhhh
[12:04] <apachelogger> ahhhh
[12:04] <apachelogger> meeh
[12:04] <apachelogger> :(
[12:05] <apachelogger> oh well, kickoff doesnt like me either
[12:05] <apachelogger> curel world
[12:35] <freeflying> Riddell: anyone tried lucid on arm yet?
[12:37] <Riddell> freeflying: not as far as I know
[12:38] <freeflying> Riddell: the experience was too bad
[12:58] <emonkey> apachelogger, may 20? 7.20 am?
[12:59] <emonkey> damn early ... what are you doing here?
[12:59] <persia> freeflying: I saw a demo in February with Kubuntu Netbook that seemed to run, but I didn't see any interaction.
[13:01] <Mamarok> emonkey: Multimedia Sprint in Randa :)
[13:01] <emonkey> Randa? Don't know that ...
[13:01] <Mamarok> emonkey: check here: http://community.kde.org/Multimedia/Sprint2010
[13:01] <emonkey> mom
[13:01] <Mamarok> Randa is close to Zermatt
[13:01] <freeflying> persia: it could be run, but you know the experice is too bad
[13:02] <emonkey> uh Zermatt? that's not that close ...
[13:02] <persia> freeflying: That's annoying.  Does something not work, or is it just slow?
[13:03] <freeflying> persia: at the first boot up time, nepomuk used too much resources, make other application keep on crash
[13:03] <davmor2> Hey guys I get a weird flashy effect the first time I click on Kicker (is it) the K menu.  after that it's fine.
[13:04] <Mamarok> emonkey: much closer for you than all the people coming to the sprint
[13:04] <freeflying> persia: I tried karmic on imx51, its not that bad
[13:04] <Mamarok> but yeah, as usual, the Swiss think far away when it's not the next town :)
[13:04] <emonkey> Mamarok, true ... but I don't think that I've got enough money to get there ...
[13:05] <Mamarok> emonkey: well, check the prices, you might be astonished
[13:06] <persia> freeflying: Sounds like a bug in nepomuk to me, but worth profiling.  I suspect there's a way to make it work better.
[13:07] <Riddell> ryanakca: how about updating "User of the moment" with that e-mail from Jay Franklin?
[13:07] <freeflying> persia: :) actually, Qt4.6 shall perform better than gtk on arm
[13:08] <persia> freeflying: I'm generally against competitive library comparison, but why?  Do we know that it's compiled optimally in Ubuntu?
[13:09] <emonkey> Mamarok, 113.- do you know how much that is for me? ;-)
[13:10] <Mamarok> emonkey: well, I sent a mail to various LUG lists talking about the SPrint in December, you could have been sponsored if you reigstered earlier
[13:10] <freeflying> persia: well, forget what I've said :P
[13:10] <Mamarok> registered*
[13:11] <persia> freeflying: But seriously, I expect that it needs a bug with some profiling information.  Could be poor optimisation, non-optimal compiler flags, memory issues, etc.
[13:11] <emonkey> Mamarok, But I think I'm not really that helpful there, that a sponsoring makes sense
[13:11] <Mamarok> why do you think that?
[13:12] <freeflying> persia: if I can find another reference board, I will try more
[13:13] <persia> freeflying: Board doesn't matter so much.  If you can figure out why nepomuk consumes so many resources on your board, it can be fixed for your board.
[13:14] <emonkey> Mamarok, no deep coding skills, no idea about this summit, nearly no knowledge about multimedia
[13:15]  * Mamarok has no deep coding skills neither :)
[13:16] <ScottK> nepomuk could generally benifit from consuming less resources.
[13:18] <emonkey> Mamarok, the biggest motivation to be there would be to see apachelogger, markey and you. ;-)
[13:18] <Mamarok> emonkey: isn't that motivation enough? You can give a hand in Edu, too, that is a combined sprint
[13:18] <ghostcube> heh yeah thats what im thinking about going there and seeing them in real life in real time
[13:18] <ghostcube> :D
[13:18] <ghostcube> and then poking apachelogger through the swiss alps
[13:18] <ghostcube> :D
[13:18] <Mamarok> Mario will be there, and annma
[13:19] <ghostcube> heh
[13:19] <Mamarok> ghostcube: the alps are very high, and one ca fall deep...
[13:19] <Mamarok> can*
[13:19] <ghostcube> yeah only the smaller hills
[13:19] <ghostcube> hes old
[13:19] <ghostcube> i dont wanna jkill him
[13:19] <ghostcube> :D
[13:19] <emonkey> Mamarok, I think it we'll be only possible to be there if I'm able to join someone who drive's with a car.
[13:22] <Mamarok> emonkey: I am driving from Fribourg...
[13:22] <Mamarok> but there are a few Germans driving down there, too
[13:43] <shtylman> Riddell: will the printer config ui fixes hit for beta? or no?
[13:44] <shtylman> I am guessing that the cd's arn't gonna be respun?
[13:48] <Riddell> shtylman: not beta no
[13:48] <shtylman> ;(
[13:48] <rgreening_> Riddell: will we have the new logo on the CD sleeves? I hope so :)
[13:49] <shtylman> more importantly... will there be new stickers... and how can I get them :)
[13:50] <Riddell> rgreening_: I need to speek to them about what's happening with CD designs
[13:51] <Riddell> shtylman: I expect the whole of shop.canonical will be redone
[13:54] <shtylman> oooo
[13:55] <Riddell> no nixternal this week?
[13:59] <ScottK> Riddell: His house had some kind of storm damage, so no power.
[13:59] <Riddell> oh, erk
[13:59] <ScottK> It's somewhere in your backscroll ~ maybe 30 hours ago.
[14:00] <ScottK> Between him and Tm_T (who's also not here) there go my hopes for powerpc testing.
[14:44] <apachelogger> ghostcube: no poking!!
[14:44] <apachelogger> that makes me grumpy
[14:44] <ghostcube> hehehe
[14:45]  * ghostcube is looking at the iPhone 4G pics o.O 
[14:45] <Sput> apachelogger prefers to be peeked.
[14:45] <apachelogger> emonkey: see, that is why I am going to be damn early in the next town so you dont have to go that far ;)
[14:45]  * apachelogger is very considering
[14:46]  * apachelogger is wondering why he is making tea when coffee is so much more appropriate
[14:47] <ghostcube> cause teein and coffein is the same o.O
[14:47] <apachelogger> emonkey: re joining someone that drives ... I read that someone from german is going by car and offered to pick up people along the way
[14:47] <apachelogger> somewhere in the wiki
[14:47] <apachelogger> ghostcube: it is fruit tea
[14:47] <ghostcube> oh ...
[14:47] <ghostcube> then i have no idea :D
[14:49]  * apachelogger just when HR7 south - R49 west - R2 north - R23 east - R7 south on http://www.opencyclemap.org/?zoom=13&lat=47.04557&lon=15.44626&layers=B000 
[14:49] <apachelogger> that was quite the trip
[14:56] <agateau> Riddell: is m.i plasma applet 0.5.4 in your TODO list?
[14:56]  * evilshadeslayer watches his karma jump to ~1500...
[14:57] <apachelogger> hm
[14:57] <apachelogger> are we unfrozen yet?
[14:57] <agateau> don't know
[14:58] <apachelogger> doesnt look like it :(
[14:58] <agateau> was just wondering if it would be there after unfreeze
[14:58] <agateau> ok
[14:58] <agateau> apachelogger: where do you go to check this?
[15:00] <apachelogger> agateau: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2010-March/thread.html
[15:00] <ScottK> apachelogger: No, but if you upload stuff it'll just sit in the queue.  No need to wait.
[15:01]  * apachelogger doenst like queues :P
[15:01] <apachelogger> + if we hadnt our lovely bzr branches that approach would be bound to fail I suppose
[15:01] <agateau> apachelogger: thanks
[15:02] <Riddell> agateau: it's up next
[15:02] <apachelogger> agateau: its probably also indicated on some lp page
[15:02] <apachelogger> but since lp is a black whole for information :P
[15:03] <apachelogger> agateau: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid
[15:03] <apachelogger> see Status:
[15:03] <agateau> :)
[15:03] <apachelogger> also the /ubuntu/ page show frozeneness
[15:05] <agateau> canonical should start marketing certification for LP browsing :)
[15:06] <apachelogger> canonical certified launchpad browser operator
[15:06] <agateau> sounds good!
[15:06] <evilshadeslayer> cclpbo
[15:06]  * apachelogger is wondering if this could be a whole new business opportunity
[15:08] <apachelogger> hm, workspace really needs a testbuild
[15:08] <apachelogger> so many changes
[15:08] <apachelogger> awful
[15:11] <apachelogger> me@osiris:~/src/bzr$ get-branches kubuntu-members
[15:11] <apachelogger> The team 'kubuntu-members' does not have any branches on Launchpad.
[15:11] <apachelogger> that does not look right
[15:14] <agateau> indeed
[15:14] <agateau> "me" is a very weird username
[15:14]  * agateau hides
[15:15] <evilshadeslayer> hehe...
[15:15] <evilshadeslayer> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/10.10/Brainstorm#preview << This has grown :D
[15:17] <Riddell> agateau, apachelogger: did you guys work out what to do about moving message indicator on upgrade?
[15:18] <apachelogger> yus
[15:18] <agateau> Riddell: yes, that's the reason we need m.i 0.5.4 :)
[15:18] <apachelogger> only need changes from agateau on the indicator package
[15:18] <apachelogger> kds part of changes is waiting for unfreeze
[15:18] <Riddell> does it also need his patch to kconf_upgrade?
[15:18] <agateau> Riddell: no
[15:19] <Riddell> groovy
[15:19] <agateau> Riddell: I need to find time to get this into kde trunk, because I think it is an improvement on the existing code, but there is no need for it in Lucid
[15:21] <evilshadeslayer> btw if i make a wiki page of myself,anyone can edit it?
[15:21] <evilshadeslayer> s/of/describing
[15:26] <Riddell> agateau: but I do want kdebase-workspace-4.4.1-20100406.diff don't I?
[15:26] <agateau> Riddell: you do yes
[15:27] <agateau> Riddell: to help poor krandrtray menu showing on the screen
[15:27] <Riddell> apachelogger: "Don't adblock by default." that's a notable change in policy and needs discussion
[15:28] <apachelogger> Riddell: this is a no-one-cared-to-maintan-that-crap-dropping-change
[15:31] <Riddell> apachelogger: what actual problem does it cause?  bug 372379 doesn't mention any
[15:32] <apachelogger> Riddell: a bogus filter could block stuff that should not be blocked, and by the fact that there is no such thing as perfection there ought to be bogus filters that block stuff it shouldnt block
[15:32] <apachelogger> e.g. in some forum I read that a user couldnt play youtube videos until he turned off the adblocking
[15:33] <evilshadeslayer> apachelogger: do we have a bug squad?
[15:33] <apachelogger> not sure if that is related, but messing with website content at runtime is a tourblesome thing to do eitherway
[15:33] <apachelogger> evilshadeslayer: jontheechidna is the bug squad ;)
[15:33] <evilshadeslayer> haha....
[15:34] <Riddell> apachelogger: yes but we've had this discussion ages ago (more than once) and the result was it's something we want, if that's to change it needs more discussion
[15:34] <apachelogger> Riddell: also, adblocking that only blocks 10% fo the stuff it could block with an up-to-date blocklist is not really worth anything IMHO
[15:35] <apachelogger> Riddell: if you update the blocklist I am alll for bringin it back and discussion is, until then I consider this an outdated patch that is at best causing problems
[15:35] <apachelogger> hence my reference to KDE 4.5 in which we can provide a sensible solution to this
[15:36] <apachelogger> since khtml provides auto-update magi et al
[15:36] <emonkey> apachelogger, i wrote it in my agenda, so if nothing goes wrong I'll be in zurich.
[15:36] <apachelogger> cool
[15:41] <Quintasan> BANG! There went my sponsorship :P
[15:42]  * Quintasan is on "stand-by"
[15:44] <Riddell> apachelogger: "at best causing problems"?  it's an outright useful feature, helps me every day.  yes there are traidoffs but we're aware of that.  useful features can't be removed without discussion
[15:44] <apachelogger> well then, please revert
[15:48] <Riddell> thanks apachelogger
[15:48] <Riddell> Quintasan: that's not unlikely to happen mind, people do drop out
[15:50] <evilshadeslayer> ikonia: ping
[15:50] <evilshadeslayer> ah..afk
[15:58] <shtylman> Quintasan: why on stand-by?
[15:58] <bipolar> Is it appropriate to advocate for my particular bug here? lol
[15:58] <ScottK> As long as you don't over do it.
[15:58] <evilshadeslayer> bipolar: and as long as its a valid bug :)
[15:58] <bipolar> ok. bug 557449
[15:59] <Riddell> shtylman: more kubuntu people applied than we have spaces for
[15:59] <shtylman> ahh
[16:01] <evilshadeslayer> hehe... im planning to apply... in the next 4-5 years :D
[16:04] <evilshadeslayer> apachelogger: http://imagebin.ca/view/BuO88P.html << Weird thing is that it was displaying 2 wired n/w before... i have manually specified one of them in the manager
[16:05] <evilshadeslayer> apachelogger: like this one : http://imagebin.ca/view/xhnoKJ.html
[16:07] <apachelogger> evilshadeslayer: that you need to tell sebas :)
[16:08] <evilshadeslayer> apachelogger: ive put into the ML
[16:08] <evilshadeslayer> +it
[16:09] <evilshadeslayer> ok bye all :)
[16:13] <ScottK> Riddell: Would you mind doing the sync in Bug 554975?  It's a huge package and it'd be nice to get it built now while we're in freeze and the buildds are idle.
[16:14] <Riddell> onto it
[16:14] <ScottK> Thanks.
[16:17] <Riddell> ScottK: 20091101-7 is in unstable not -6
[16:17] <Riddell> let me know if I should flush or not
[16:17] <ScottK> Looking
[16:18] <ScottK> Riddell: Yes.  Please go ahead.
[16:19] <apachelogger> good thing compiling amarok takes forever
[16:20] <Riddell> ScottK: done
[16:20] <ScottK> Thanks.
[16:27] <ofirk> anyone heard from nixternal
[16:27] <ofirk> ?
[16:28] <Riddell> ofirk: he's offline due to flooding
[16:28] <apachelogger> Riddell: I just testbuilt workspace, any other pending changes around?
[16:28] <Riddell> apachelogger: good to upload I'd say
[16:28] <apachelogger> k
[16:29]  * apachelogger makes package
[16:29] <Riddell> apachelogger: assuming you have the updated patch from agateau I committed
[16:29] <ScottK> apachelogger: Did you fix the netbook widgets overlapping?
[16:30] <apachelogger> ScottK: no
[16:30] <Riddell> hmm that's a point
[16:30] <apachelogger> I fixed the desktop widgets overlapping
[16:30] <apachelogger> Riddell: yes
[16:30] <Riddell> we could just remove lockout from kubuntu_106_netbook_layout.diff
[16:30] <apachelogger> Riddell: how would people logout? then :/
[16:30]  * ScottK waves his hands at Riddell and apachelogger and says "Please fix."
[16:31] <apachelogger> lol
[16:31] <Riddell> apachelogger: upstream's view is they should use the hardware power switch
[16:31] <apachelogger> ScottK: I tought upstream was working on a fix?
[16:31] <apachelogger> Riddell: what does seele think about that?
[16:31] <ScottK> I don't think it's upstream's problem.
[16:31] <Riddell> I disagree and that's why I added the lockout widget but it causes problems
[16:31]  * apachelogger is not sure if that is ver intuitive
[16:32] <seele> erm.. what now?
[16:32] <apachelogger> ScottK: it is if their stuff doesnt obey size constraints
[16:32] <apachelogger> which it does not
[16:32] <ScottK> Well I don't think we filed that bug exactly.
[16:32] <ScottK> It would be good to have that on b.k.o
[16:32] <apachelogger> seele: do you think it is good to have no visual way to turn off the computer? i.e. only wayt to turn it off or log out is to press the hardware power button
[16:32] <ScottK> If you file it, I'll talk to upstream about it.
[16:32]  * apachelogger notes that even implies that said button works, which is at times not the case
[16:33] <seele> apachelogger: ack upstream is doing that?
[16:33] <seele> keep in mind that i rely on kubuntu to figure out what is in kde. i dont compile svn
[16:33] <apachelogger> ScottK: IMHO it is caused by the same issue that leads to widgets jumping around in the nebook panel
[16:33] <seele> they took the logout buttons out of the KMenu?
[16:33] <Riddell> seele: upstream plasma-netbook is yes
[16:33] <seele> er, kickoff
[16:33] <Riddell> seele: netbook only, not desktop
[16:33] <seele> oh plasma-netbook but not desktop
[16:33] <seele> did they put a power button on the taskbar?
[16:34] <ScottK> apachelogger: Yes.  I find it works sometimes and not others.  No idea why.
[16:34] <ScottK> It was very reliable in Karmic.
[16:34] <apachelogger> no, Riddell did that
[16:34] <seele> there is a widget for that.
[16:34] <Riddell> I did but it causes layout problems
[16:34] <apachelogger> upstreams thinks there should be no widget either
[16:34] <seele> yeah, that's silly
[16:34] <Riddell> so we can try and fiddle and hope we fix the layout issues, or not add it
[16:34] <seele> theyre probably basing it off of "oh well people are mobile so they'll just put it to sleep when they are done
[16:34] <seele> weird that adding a widget breaks layout
[16:34] <ScottK> apachelogger: Widgets jumping is fixed.
[16:35] <apachelogger> Riddell: I think they just need to be added it different order or something, it seems as if some widget is resized after its neighbors already were at final size
[16:35]  * apachelogger finds plasmas rect magic quite scary TBH
[16:36] <Riddell> ok let's try and fiddle with it
[16:36] <Riddell> I've no time today, needs to be next week
[16:36] <Riddell> apachelogger: so go ahead and upload unless you're in a mood for plasma widget fiddling
[16:37] <apachelogger> not really, I am fixing our restrictedInstall scripts right now :)
[16:37]  * apachelogger uploads
[16:38] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: topicdiff?
[16:38] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: took away the "only 9 left" bit
[16:38] <Riddell> ah aye, betas add bugs don't they :)
[16:39] <JontheEchidna> and of course ,they weren't there until the isos appeared ;)
[16:40] <ScottK> Easiest way to have no bugs is not test.
[16:40] <ScottK> Actually not true.  Even easier is have no bug tracker.
[16:40] <JontheEchidna> ^and also not release
[16:41] <JontheEchidna> oh well, should go back down to 12 after beta freeze
[16:41] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: about your language notification bug. Do you know when that hook shows up in the hook dir?
[16:43] <Riddell> JontheEchidna: during distro install I think
[16:44] <JontheEchidna> Riddell: is it designed to show up during install?
[16:44] <Riddell> after install
[16:44] <Riddell> on first boot
[16:45] <JontheEchidna> Ok, so then it's a bug that k-n-h isn't seeing it at boot time. I can put your hook on my computer and the notification pops right up
[16:45] <JontheEchidna> ah, yeah. we don't do a startup check for hooks
[16:46] <JontheEchidna> QTimer::singleshot to the rescue
[16:46] <apachelogger> Error: uploading files for distribution UNRELEASED to ubuntu not allowed.
[16:46] <apachelogger> meh.
[16:47] <CIA-6> kubuntu: Harald Sitter <apachelogger@ubuntu.com> * rapachelogger@ubuntu.com-20100408154719-smhxpt0vqlqainis kdebase-workspace/debian/changelog: releasing version 4:4.4.2-0ubuntu7
[16:48] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: is there something I have to do to have my commits picked up by kubotu?
[16:48] <apachelogger> install cia-something
[16:48] <apachelogger> bzr cia-project kubuntu
[16:49] <apachelogger> then it will send the commits to cia
[16:49] <apachelogger> it being bzr
[16:50] <CIA-6> kubuntu: Jonathan Thomas (The man) <echidnaman@gmail.com> * rechidnaman@gmail.com-20100408155010-pg5ng1vqo9xv3hxf kubuntu-notification-helper/ (debian/changelog src/daemon/notificationhelpermodule.cpp):
[16:50] <CIA-6> kubuntu: Do a one-time check for hooks on startup, so that hooks meant for the
[16:50] <CIA-6> kubuntu: first boot actually show up. (LP: #557217)
[16:50] <JontheEchidna> hmm, it does that when I commit, not when I push. strangeish
[16:50] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: you could bribe jr into rejecting my earlier upload of knh and merge that with your change
[16:50] <persia> That's because it's a local hook.  Use a bound-branch for everything to be sane.
[16:50] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: that is bzr ;)
[16:51] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: still sez unreleased in bzr
[16:51] <apachelogger> oh
[16:51] <apachelogger> then I might have forgotten to push
[16:51] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: all the better
[16:51]  * apachelogger does the looky looky
[16:52] <apachelogger> indeed it would seem as if I didnt upload ^^
[16:52] <JontheEchidna> ^^
[16:52]  * apachelogger is wondering what he uploaded then ^^
[16:52] <JontheEchidna> so it'd be neat if ubottu could handle LP: #557217
[16:53] <apachelogger> tsimpson: ^
[16:53]  * apachelogger places a basekt filled with cookies on tsimpson for being such a nice bot master ^^
[16:53] <apachelogger> hm
[16:53] <apachelogger> I should have placed that on the desk ^^
[16:54] <JontheEchidna> bbl, lunch
[16:58] <apachelogger> workspace queued
[16:58] <apachelogger> multimedia queued
[16:58]  * apachelogger QAs amarok
[16:58] <Riddell> apachelogger: I'll upload k-d-s
[17:00] <Quintasan> Riddell: the same thing was last year so I don't think I will get it :P
[17:00] <Quintasan> shtylman: beats me :O
[17:01] <apachelogger> Riddell: k
[17:01] <apachelogger> sweet
[17:01]  * apachelogger uploads amarok
[17:21] <apachelogger> http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_RBtmZ4RxC4M/St9mVWQ31aI/AAAAAAAAAAU/0oMFd6hK3yc/s400/maths+joke!.jpg
[17:21] <CIA-6> kubuntu: Harald Sitter <apachelogger@ubuntu.com> * rapachelogger@ubuntu.com-20100408162155-tyv1dmzontk1tkn0 ubuntu/debian/ (changelog patches/kubuntu/03_restricted_install.diff):
[17:21] <CIA-6> kubuntu: * In kubuntu/03_restricted_install.diff send the translated programName
[17:21] <CIA-6> kubuntu:  to the restrictedInstall interface instead of a hardcoded name
[17:21] <CIA-6> kubuntu:  + Get rid of unused var warning due to this patch
[17:23] <Riddell> amichair: ping
[17:35] <Riddell> amichair: I can't recreate bug 555228 software-properties-kde starts in using pt_BR for me
[17:36] <CIA-6> kubuntu: Harald Sitter <apachelogger@ubuntu.com> * rapachelogger@ubuntu.com-20100408163653-1d7p6kg07bbgoook ubuntu/debian/ (2 files in 2 dirs):
[17:36] <CIA-6> kubuntu: * In kubuntu_02_dragon_restricted_install.diff send the translated programName
[17:36] <CIA-6> kubuntu:  to the restrictedInstall interface instead of a hardcoded name
[17:36] <CIA-6> kubuntu:  + Get rid of unused var warning due to this patch
[17:39] <CIA-6> kubuntu: Harald Sitter <apachelogger@ubuntu.com> * rapachelogger@ubuntu.com-20100408163918-1elgi2gko5h100jj kubuntu-debug-installer/debian/changelog: releasing version 10.04ubuntu4
[17:43] <apachelogger> meh
[17:43] <apachelogger> kaffeine_1.0~pre3-0ubuntu2.dsc: Version older than that in the archive. 1.0~pre3-0ubuntu2 <= 1.0~pre3-1ubuntu1
[17:43] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: ^
[17:46] <CIA-6> kubuntu: Harald Sitter <apachelogger@ubuntu.com> * rapachelogger@ubuntu.com-20100408164553-u3t3ihmo4flu7953 kdenetwork/debian/changelog: releasing version 4:4.4.2-0ubuntu1
[17:50] <tsimpson> apachelogger: (LP: #557217)
[17:50] <apachelogger> tsimpson: thanks :)
[17:50] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: ^
[17:53] <apachelogger> apachelogger->startCooking(supper);
[18:25] <blueyed> Is it possible to start a KDE app minimized? Would have expected something in --help-kde or --help-qt
[18:40] <debfx> blueyed: you can use the kstart helper app: kstart --iconify <appname>
[18:41] <blueyed> debfx: thanks, just found it myself: http://fixunix.com/x/267800-how-start-application-minimized.html
[18:42] <blueyed> seems odd though. Is it working in every DE? sounds like it'll work in KDE only.
[18:42] <blueyed> debfx: doing the merge now btw
[18:44] <blueyed> also, this sounds like it should be a flag in the .desktop file for ~/.kde/Autostart or ~/.config/autostart rather (used by KDE after all?)
[18:45] <maco> blueyed: if you want something that works on gnome and kde, maybe alltray?
[18:51] <debfx> blueyed: looking at the source code it should work on other DEs
[19:10] <amichair> Riddell: that's the bug with the merge question... it might be that the user's installation was borked which is why his reported version doesn't match the code in the trace
[19:11] <amichair> Riddell: the current working theory is that it is indeed a duplicate of the fixed bug. If he gets back to us with new info, we'll look further into it. For now it's marked as dup.
[19:33] <apachelogger> plymouths is scary
[19:41] <amichair> when is beta2 out?
[19:43] <ScottK> Today.
[19:43] <ScottK> When testing is done.
[19:43] <apachelogger> mgraesslin: hey, can bug 212796 be implemented upstream?
[19:44] <amichair> ScottK: Gracias.
[19:44] <ScottK> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/all/all hints at more Kubuntu testing needed
[19:46] <mgraesslin> it could but I don't know if it is a good idea to enable those shortcuts by default
[19:46] <mgraesslin> kwin has many, many shortcuts and if we enable too many of them by default app developers start to complain
[19:48] <apachelogger> mgraesslin: well, as I understand it those short cuts are used by compiz anyway, so I wonder...
[19:49] <mgraesslin> yeah I know, we get complaints about our shortcuts being different to Compiz again and again ;-)
[19:51] <apachelogger> so either get complaints or complaints ^^
[19:53] <apachelogger> mgraesslin: I will mark that wontfix and tell the report to go complain to you :P
[19:53] <mgraesslin> fine with me
[19:54] <apachelogger> you could wontfix send him to compiz asking that they shall remove those shortcuts I imagine
[19:54] <mgraesslin> :-D
[20:00] <apachelogger> ScottK: what to do with bug 477922
[20:00] <apachelogger> it defenitely doesnt belong to kubuntu-meta
[20:11] <apachelogger> freeflying, NCommander: is bug 364519 still valid?
[20:12] <NCommander> apachelogger: we only build kubuntu-netbook on ARM now
[20:12] <apachelogger> NCommander: close wontfix?
[20:12] <NCommander> apachelogger: let me confirm
[20:13] <amichair> The i386 iso has a "666" hiding in the checksum! and a "aaa" scream too! It must not be released!
[20:14] <NCommander> apachelogger: close invalid; as 1. we don't support kubuntu on ARM (just KNE), and 2. thats really stale bug
[20:14] <apachelogger> NCommander: k, thx
[20:16] <NCommander> apachelogger: NP, I'll be testing kubuntu-netbook on armel today on dove (hopefully), its been looking sexy right along
[20:17] <ScottK> apachelogger: I'm not sure.  It's almost impossible for that to be different between UNE and KNR.
[20:18] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: could you poke some upstream on bug 289092
[20:18] <JontheEchidna> kolourpaint doesn't have an upstream. unmaintained
[20:18] <apachelogger> NCommander: hehe
[20:18] <NCommander> apachelogger: if I bring ARM hardware to UDS, I'll show you first hand
[20:18] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: if it was officially unmaintained it would be dropped from kde
[20:19] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: well, supposedly knetworkconf is also maintained
[20:19] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: so ultimately you will have to poke aseigo since he is responsible for kdegraphics
[20:19] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: if software is unmaintained, then file a complaint with the release coordinator of the parenting module and the release team
[20:20] <apachelogger> ScottK: did you test it on UNR?
[20:21] <apachelogger> maybe there is some hack they have in there to make such crappy touchpads behave better
[20:21] <ScottK> apachelogger: No, but it's controlled by X, not the DE.
[20:21] <apachelogger> the DE can always override the settings
[20:21] <ScottK> There's already a hack and it's in X.
[20:21] <apachelogger> that is what kcm-touchpad does after all
[20:21] <ScottK> perhaps
[20:21] <ScottK> tseliot would be the one to ask.
[20:21] <ScottK> If there is another such hack, we should have it.
[20:21]  * apachelogger is sure ScottK will ask ^^
[20:22] <apachelogger> ScottK: and while you are at it bug 553567 also needs tseliot's attention ;)
[20:23] <ScottK> That one should be done now.
[20:25] <apachelogger> ScottK: not last I checked
[20:25] <apachelogger> can try again if you wish
[20:25] <ScottK> Please.
[20:25] <apachelogger> hm hm hm
[20:25] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: bug 289092 could be wontfix, since the report closed his lp account anyway ;)
[20:26]  * JontheEchidna likes the sound of that
[20:26] <ScottK> Doesn't gwenview have some basic capability now?
[20:27] <JontheEchidna> The only things I ever used a paint-like program for were for saving screenshots and making minor photo edits/crops.
[20:27] <JontheEchidna> This is covered by gwenview and ksnapshot, imo
[20:28] <JontheEchidna> though, I did use kolourpaint last night to help illustrate an upcoming blog post
[20:28] <ScottK> I'd vote "Fix Released"
[20:29] <apachelogger> someone close it :P
[20:29]  * apachelogger doesnt care as what :P
[20:30] <JontheEchidna> close'd
[20:42] <apachelogger> ScottK: still there
[20:42] <apachelogger> ScottK: upping video
[20:44] <ScottK> Oh.
[20:45] <apachelogger> ScottK: http://people.ubuntu.com/~apachelogger/screencasts/plymouth-uglyness.ogv
[20:56] <apachelogger> hm
[20:57] <apachelogger> there is a bit of a problem with that mount-permission-blah-use-sudo-patch
[20:57] <apachelogger> a) it asks me to sudo for moutning a device that worked just fine before the patch was fixed?
[20:57] <apachelogger> b) it asks me referencing this device
[20:57] <apachelogger> this device I do not know however
[20:58] <apachelogger> it might be that device, or that, but this i do not see
[20:58] <apachelogger> :/
[20:58]  * apachelogger finds that this reference especially horrible
[21:00] <apachelogger> oh dear
[21:00]  * apachelogger starts triaging ktorrent a bit
[21:18] <amichair> Is beta2 link on the way to homepage?
[21:18]  * ScottK looks at Riddell
[21:20] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: did you upload knh?
[21:21] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: nope
[21:21] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: can you please?
[21:21] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: sure
[21:21] <apachelogger> thx
[21:21] <CIA-6> kubuntu: Jonathan Thomas (The man) <echidnaman@gmail.com> * rechidnaman@gmail.com-20100408202144-aft51hflk4yy2rca kubuntu-notification-helper/debian/changelog: releasing version 10.04ubuntu3
[21:26] <apachelogger> ^^
[21:27] <amichair> apachelogger, JontheEchidna: just looked at the diff, and noticed a few other uses of iterator started with constBegin() and ending with end(). This was related to nixternal's crash - it should end with constEnd().
[21:27] <JontheEchidna> aah, so that's what it was
[21:28] <amichair> (silly me forgot to check other instances of this bug when I fixed the reported one :-( )
[21:28] <JontheEchidna> oops, accidentally uploaded my build dir :(
[21:28] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: bzr-buildpackage -S is your friend :P
[21:30] <apachelogger> kubotu: np
[21:30] <kubotu> apachelogger is listening to "Outside (Bonus Track)" by Staind With Fred Durst -- see http://www.last.fm/user/apachelogger for more
[21:30] <apachelogger> very awesome
[21:30]  * apachelogger dances with Nightrose
[21:31] <Nightrose> yay dancing
[21:31] <Nightrose> \o/
[21:31] <JontheEchidna> http://simplest-image-hosting.net/i0-plasma-desktopth1587-jpg.jpg
[21:31] <apachelogger> Nightrose: when is gsoc propsal thing deadline btw?
[21:32] <Nightrose> in 22 h and 30 mins
[21:32] <apachelogger> oh dear ^^
[21:32] <apachelogger> not much time to come up with something epic
[21:32] <apachelogger> Nightrose: thanks :)
[21:32] <Nightrose> apachelogger: !!!
[21:32] <Nightrose> you wanna be a student this year?
[21:33] <apachelogger> wanna is a strong word  ... but I figured it would be less work than writing applications for some sort of employment in summer
[21:33] <apachelogger> though yes, I am lookingto being student
[21:33] <Nightrose> hehe
[21:33] <Nightrose> cool
[21:33] <Nightrose> well then hush hush
[21:33] <Nightrose> write write write
[21:33] <apachelogger> maybe redoing khelpcenter would be a good diea
[21:34] <apachelogger> it defenitely needs work, like a lot, and there is so many cool things we could do ^^
[21:34] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: what do we see in this screenshot?
[21:34] <apachelogger> other than pointless iocn usage and pixly icons and bad UI design

[21:34] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: QApt backend working
[21:35] <apachelogger> ohhhh
[21:35] <apachelogger> cool
[21:35] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: you bound it to shaman already?
[21:35] <apachelogger> must be quite mature
[21:35] <JontheEchidna> apachelogger: well, it's still read-only, except for cache updating
[21:35] <apachelogger> well, that is half the stuff one would possible want to do :)
[21:36] <JontheEchidna> the other half is dependency resolving, installing/removing, upgrading
[21:36] <JontheEchidna> etc
[21:36] <apachelogger> in fact, if you think about it ... reading is done a lot more than writing
[21:36] <apachelogger> I would think that in 3 queries only 1 installation gets done or so
[21:37] <JontheEchidna> then there's "dis package no haz gpg" and support for held packages and support for purging config files and...
[21:37] <JontheEchidna> I'd also like to make it configurable whether or not you want to install recommends by default
[21:37] <apachelogger> Nightrose: btw, it would be nice if google did not drop gsoc applicaiton time in the hot weeks before ubuntu release ;)
[21:37] <JontheEchidna> but of course respect the system default
[21:37] <amichair> JontheEchidna: also, http://techbase.kde.org/Development/Tutorials/Common_Programming_Mistakes#Prefer_const_iterators_and_cache_end.28.29
[21:38] <Nightrose> apachelogger: it would also be nice if they didn't drop it in the middle of my exams...
[21:38] <Nightrose> but tough luck
[21:38] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: sources.list manipulation could be an addon lib
[21:38] <apachelogger> would be very handy
[21:38] <JontheEchidna> mm, yes
[21:38] <apachelogger> i.e. allow us to rewrite sp in c++ ;)
[21:38] <amichair> JontheEchidna: want me to fix them or u on it?
[21:39] <JontheEchidna> amichair: could you please?
[21:39] <apachelogger> Nightrose: oh my :)
[21:39] <apachelogger> Nightrose: good luck with the exams
[21:39] <Nightrose> thx :)
[21:39] <apachelogger> Nightrose: are you mentoring at gsoc?
[21:39] <Nightrose> admin again and maybe mentoring for work work
[21:39]  * apachelogger would find it cool to have Nightrose as mentor ^^
[21:40] <Nightrose> :D
[21:40] <Nightrose> i mean if needbe i can mentor again of course
[21:40] <Nightrose> but first i'll have to see how work work gsoc mentoring is working out
[21:40] <Nightrose> btw: it is sooo cool to get payed by $employer to do this :D
[21:41] <apachelogger> ohhh
[21:41] <apachelogger> that indeed sounds cool
[21:42]  * apachelogger notes: apply at canonical so they can make him do more work by paying him to do work in the time he would usually spend on ranting and dancing with Nightrose ^^
[21:42] <Nightrose> haha
[21:44] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: did you see what was earlier said about the code style policy?
[21:45] <JontheEchidna> nope
[21:47] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: http://paste.ubuntu.com/411234/
[21:49] <JontheEchidna> hmm
[21:51] <JontheEchidna> yeah, I'll look into revising it to remove duped info from the kdelibs style spec
[21:51] <JontheEchidna> but later
[21:52] <apachelogger> *nod*
[21:53]  * apachelogger is getting bug fix anxiety
[21:53]  * apachelogger consequently starts running and circles
[21:53] <JontheEchidna> so, since qaptworker can only be invoked by root dbus, the only was I can get debug info is to use QFile::rename on files in my home directory, renaming them to the debug output I want :x
[21:54] <JontheEchidna> root dbus == consolekit in this case, I think
[21:54] <apachelogger> rofl
[21:55] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: kephal uses a nice approach
[21:55] <JontheEchidna> http://simplest-image-hosting.net/i0-aubertruck-png.png To the aubertruck!
[21:55] <apachelogger> it does have a server bin that embedds the kded for debugging purposes
[21:55] <apachelogger> so you only reload that bin instead of whole kded
[21:56] <apachelogger> a similar thing might be doable for qaptworker
[21:56] <apachelogger> I suppose you really just need to start it from sudo and attach it to the system bux
[21:56] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: lol
[21:56] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: and that is to illustrate an upcoming blog post??!
[21:56] <apachelogger> ^^
[21:56] <JontheEchidna> yus
[21:57]  * apachelogger thinks JontheEchidna did too much code reading in libapt :P
[21:57] <JontheEchidna> it started out as a graphic to demonstrate how packaging relations work
[21:57] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna++
[21:57] <apachelogger> that is way too awesome
[21:57] <apachelogger> reminds me that I need to draw a release pic for lucid
[21:58]  * apachelogger doesnt know what to draw though, since he was absent for far too long
[21:58] <apachelogger> oh oh oh
[21:58] <apachelogger> maybe I know some stuff ater all ;)
[21:58] <apachelogger> hrrrr
[22:00]  * apachelogger calls the skype test call lady
[22:01] <JontheEchidna> lol
[22:01] <JontheEchidna> bbl
[22:18] <lex79> someone can upload the fix for this bug 554069 ?
[22:20] <lex79> and kdeedu
[22:20] <Riddell> that'll be beta 2 out
[22:25] <apachelogger> Riddell: do you know which of the proposed gsoc ideas didnt get a lot of proposals so far
[22:26]  * apachelogger would then draf something up for that one, as usual going for the unwanted fruit ^^
[22:29] <apachelogger> or maybe I should wirte a proposal for ubuntu one... since I am hooked up there already ;)
[22:31] <amichair> Riddell: is anouncement on website under way? (though beta1 download link points to beta2 :-) )
[22:32] <Riddell> ta da http://www.kubuntu.org/news/10.04-lts-beta-2
[22:33] <amichair> Riddell: :-)
[22:33] <Riddell> amichair: Language Selector has only had one interested person, although that's jontheenchilada
[22:33] <Riddell> "Profile boot time" I told people to go to the KDE project for the same thing
[22:34] <Riddell> quite a few for "Ubuntu One KDE client" and "Package Manager Improvements" although i don't think anyone has submitted one that I'm convinced about yet
[22:34] <amichair> Riddell: was that for apachelogger? or am I awooosh?
[22:34] <Riddell> that's for apachelogger
[22:34] <dantti> Riddell: http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/2084/printmanagersyst2.png  http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/2755/printmanagersyst1.png
[22:34] <apachelogger> thx :)
[22:35] <Riddell> dantti: nice
[22:35] <dantti> now I need to add a way to add printers, integrate with solid and write docs :P
[22:35] <dantti> and find out how ink levels work..
[22:38] <dantti> JontheEchidna: oh I was almost leaving :P http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/2084/printmanagersyst2.png  http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/2755/printmanagersyst1.png
[22:38] <JontheEchidna> just got home + neat :)
[22:39] <dantti> go to go now if you get any suggestions tell me ...
[22:40] <apachelogger> bleh so many untriaged bugs
[22:41] <ryanakca> Riddell: Yes, I'm waiting to hear back from him with permission to reprint his email
[22:41] <amichair> Riddell: beta 2 anouncment points to beta1 review
[22:43] <amichair> Riddell: (hope I'm not bugging, my intention is de-bugging :-) )
[22:49] <Riddell> amichair: fixed, thanks
[22:49] <ryanakca> Do we have a blank wiki.k.o/Kubuntu/Meetings that I can revert the current page to?
[22:50] <ryanakca> (or do I need to manually erase everything)
[22:50] <Riddell> ryanakca: just do it manually
[22:50] <ryanakca> Riddell: OK
[23:16] <ryanakca> ScottK: For the FFe, I'm supposed to include a diff of the changelog... there isn't one. Should I attach a commit log instead? Also, since its a sync, will a link to Debian's build log work or should I attach Lucid's and/or both?
[23:16] <ScottK> ryanakca: commit log is good.  You need Lucid's build log.
[23:16] <ScottK> Also mention that the current libinfinity is NBS and the package needs to be updated or removed.
[23:17] <ryanakca> ScottK: NBS?
[23:17] <ScottK> ryanakca: Not Built From Source.
[23:17] <ryanakca> Ah, ok
[23:17] <ScottK> The source for that version of the ilbrary is gone.
[23:18] <ryanakca> ScottK: I'm heading out the door, I'll mail the two off when I get back and ping you with the bug numbers.
[23:18] <ScottK> ryanakca: Just subscribe ubuntu-release.  I'll get the bugmail.
[23:43] <apachelogger> wow
[23:43] <apachelogger> fulltext search in the ubuntu wiki is quite the slow thing
[23:44] <Riddell> it's GB of data that
[23:44] <apachelogger> well, is that stored in text files?
[23:44] <Riddell> no
[23:44] <amichair> so it can fit nicely in RAM!
[23:45] <apachelogger> well
[23:45] <apachelogger> why is it so slow
[23:46] <amichair> maybe it's sharing resources with lots of other stuff?
[23:46] <apachelogger> that is possible
[23:46] <apachelogger> in-need-of-more-servers :)
[23:48] <amichair> aren't we all :-)
[23:50]  * apachelogger always is
[23:51] <apachelogger> I keep on dreaming about the wonderful things I could do with a server dedicated to Kubuntu QA :)
[23:51] <amichair> I just spent an entire hour waiting for my desktop to become responsive
[23:52] <amichair> I think an SSD would be a good start
[23:53] <apachelogger> yeah, I keep on day dreaming about the wonderful things I could do with a SSD :)
[23:53] <apachelogger> and quad CPU
[23:53] <persia> apachelogger: What would you do with a server dedicated to Kubuntu QA?  There may be resources available to host some of it.
[23:53] <amichair> JontheEchidna: I uploaded fix to branch, but can't test yet due to server overload
[23:54] <apachelogger> persia: constalty build our PPA stuff (buildbot like) most importantly
[23:54] <amichair> I have a Q9550, which is pretty good. but the disk throttles a bit, and the system comes to a halt
[23:54] <apachelogger> persia: then do upgrade testing with those packages
[23:54] <apachelogger> especially for new KDE deployments
[23:54] <persia> Ah, that's hard :)
[23:55] <apachelogger> yeah, unfortuantely
[23:55] <persia> Not the doing of it, but the doing of it constantly.
[23:55] <apachelogger> well, it could be on demand too, depending on the machines
[23:55] <persia> If you can create a script that does upgrade tests to run occasionally against some target and generate a report, that's easy (but it's not continuous)
[23:55] <apachelogger> but ultimately it would be doing it whenver idle and there is new revision in BZR
[23:56] <apachelogger> persia: I'll look into it, this could help a lot with the upgrade experience when upgraind to a new KDE version from our PPAs
[23:57] <apachelogger> there are always those nasty file conflicts when upgrading from one particular version to another etc.
[23:57] <persia> Having an run for new KDE releases against a PPA ought be easy to get resources to handle, assuming the script isn't monstrous.
[23:58]  * apachelogger notes that this could easily be 4 times : starting from a clean chroot -> updating to some version -> updating to testing version
[23:59] <persia> Please ping me if you get some code working (extra points if it's configurable to test arbitrary upgrades of arbitrary metapackages against arbitrary sources.lsit files).  If I'm not responsive, swing by #ubuntuwire, and show your code there.
[23:59] <apachelogger> probably more if one would want to test all KDE preleases too ;)
[23:59] <apachelogger> persia: cool, thanks :)
[23:59] <persia> I don't have current load numbers, but I know the hardware is underutilised.
[23:59] <amichair> ouch, just installed a fresh beta2 in vm and got a plasma crash right after restart :-(