[00:07]  * Obsidian1723 night all...
[01:53] <Takyoji> To my understanding, the point of OOXML was pretty much "We can have an 'open' format too!", correct?
[01:54] <Takyoji> Just for the sake of "competing" against OpenOffice, AbiWord, and other word processing solutions that store in true open formats?
[02:31] <rlaager> Takyoji: I've read it was about remaining viable for customers (like governments) that require open formats.
[02:33] <Takyoji> Also, another question: Would PDF be considered an open format?
[02:42] <rlaager> I have no idea. I suppose it'd depend on the specific regulations.
[02:59] <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: well, XML formats are better technically, and MS Office does use use that now, but making it open and touting that was pretty much just to combat ODF.
[02:59] <tonyyarusso> For the reason rlaager said - the surge in openness requirements.
[02:59] <tonyyarusso> And yes, PDF is an open format.
[03:00] <tonyyarusso> The only thing PDF lacks is good free implementations of the creation tools, but the format itself is plenty open.
[03:00] <Takyoji> ahh
[03:00] <Takyoji> how long ago was the PDF format opened?
[03:01] <tonyyarusso> uhhhh, good question
[03:01] <tonyyarusso> July 1, 2008
[03:12] <Takyoji> So, considerably "recent" then
[03:17] <tonyyarusso> yeah
[03:18] <Takyoji> I still get a laugh that MS still hasn't complied to their own [revised] standard yet. :P
[03:20] <tonyyarusso> indeed
[03:21] <Takyoji> and OOXML still defies the definition of an open standard due to having no public implementation yet to my understanding.
[03:22] <Takyoji> Too bad it simply can't be voided for the time being.
[03:24] <tonyyarusso> Right - this is why it's important to include the phrase "with a full, free & open implementation" when proposing rules btw.
[03:25] <Takyoji> Haaah, too bad I didn't see this a few days ago: http://blog.whatwg.org/html6-plan
[03:25] <Takyoji> Oh, that was a couple years ago
[03:28] <Takyoji> otherwise I was suggesting the idea of AT LEAST having the ODF plugin for MS Office throughout or school district, and of course, was pretty much ignored over the idea.
[03:31] <Takyoji> Prior to that I suggested it would be handy if OpenOffice was installed, and the reply was pretty much laughter and saying "OpenOffice takes forever to open!". But if you go to any workstation in the school, ANYTHING takes minutes to open due to poor maintenance and setup..
[03:32] <Takyoji> If anyone ever has kids, never have them go to Faribault Public High School.
[03:32] <Takyoji> A majority of the teachers have all their children go to other schools in the area.
[03:35] <tonyyarusso> See, I'd know better than to live in Faribault ;)
[03:35] <Takyoji> :P
[03:37] <Takyoji> That's the annoying thing about youth; usually people don't care about what you say, or don't consider young individuals an authentic source of information.
[03:38] <Takyoji> moreso: people don't take you seriously much at all
[03:40] <Takyoji> as I may have said previously, some systems in the district still even have IE6
[03:40] <Takyoji> And I believe the way of just resolving it in their standpoint is of just buying new desktops.
[03:41] <tonyyarusso> I think you're just talking to the wrong kinds of people - I've been taken seriously since I was like 5.  But then, I'm odd.
[03:44] <Takyoji> The district technology coordinator (whom is the boss of the district technologists, and whom has a lower technology knowledge than the district technologists) does not reply to anyone's emails, then there's three district technologists, all of whom I know personally.
[03:45] <Takyoji> Anyone else in the district pretty much knows just how to open a web browser and MS Office.
[03:45] <Takyoji> http://www.faribault.k12.mn.us/departments/informationtechnology.aspx
[03:46] <Takyoji> Second person on the list is simply just a secretary; not much with technology involvement otherwise
[03:50] <Takyoji> Thus my dilemma, unless if someone has a reasonable idea.
[03:50] <tonyyarusso> Go over their head.
[03:50] <tonyyarusso> Try a senator if you must.
[03:51] <Takyoji> Just not sure how I would approach that.
[03:53] <Takyoji> otherwise I may have to try further with the support of teachers; because I certainly know of many teachers that are annoyed over various factors.
[03:53] <tonyyarusso> However you want :)
[03:53] <tonyyarusso> State senators are very open to conversation, or at least mine is.
[04:02] <sparklehistory> tonyyarusso: Your state senator is special
[04:04] <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/2011
[04:04] <tonyyarusso> sparklehistory: well yes :)
[04:04] <sparklehistory> Most are open but not quite that open
[04:12] <tonyyarusso> Takyoji: Ignore that - already deployed :)
[05:25] <h00k> tonyyarusso: I totally meant to check that seed to see how they're doing and I haven't
[05:25] <tonyyarusso> h00k: not many hits so far
[05:25] <tonyyarusso> There's a good chance it will only get a few, but I didn't want to be unprepared if there was more interest.
[05:26] <h00k> tonyyarusso: understandable
[05:26] <h00k> tonyyarusso: all except the .wav copy is seeding
[05:27] <h00k> which is alright
[05:33] <exigraff> oh, this is where.. gotcha.
[05:33] <exigraff> tonyyarusso, does that tracker give you up/down stats?
[05:36] <tonyyarusso> exigraff: I don't think so?  Honestly haven't looked.
[05:36] <tonyyarusso> or know where to look
[06:04] <exigraff> well, if it helps, we've uploaded ~450mb of the stuff
[06:05] <tonyyarusso> excellent
[21:50] <Takyoji> Yay for the search engine default revert.
[21:58] <_diablo> lol, how so?
[21:58] <_diablo> link?
[21:58] <Takyoji> http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2010/04/ubuntu-1004-drops-yahoo-will-use-google.html
[21:59] <Takyoji> And booo to the Digital Economy Bill in the UK: http://www.38degrees.org.uk/page/speakout/extremeinternetl
[22:00] <_diablo> that hasn't passed, right?
[22:00] <_diablo> so they gave up the money? or what?
[22:01] <Takyoji> This morning: http://news.slashdot.org/story/10/04/08/132210/Digital-Economy-Bill-Passed-In-the-UK
[22:04] <_diablo> fuck
[22:04] <_diablo> sorry, probs not okay to say that here, but it's totally justified :(
[22:05] <Takyoji> I think however that it may have one more step to completion, but not entirely sure.
[22:05] <Takyoji> Welcome to the impending internet dark ages.
[22:06] <Takyoji> The US will probably be next
[22:13] <_diablo> we already have the dmca
[22:13] <_diablo> I'm graduating from college this semester and seriously considering moving to iceland
[22:18] <Takyoji> and also the recent ruling against the FCC as well
[22:20] <kermit> the dmca was a big win against copyrights
[22:21] <kermit> Takyoji: what's that bill od?  i'm not gleening anything from the wikipedia page.
[22:21] <kermit> od/do
[22:24] <Takyoji> kermit: http://www.38degrees.org.uk/page/speakout/extremeinternetl
[22:24] <Takyoji> and http://www.openrightsgroup.org/campaigns/disconnection/against-deb
[22:28] <kermit> i doubt that video is accurate
[22:28] <kermit> or, well, by 'if anyone claims'.. i'm sure that means via affadavit
[23:17] <Takyoji> I wonder what common free culture coalitions there are in the US..
[23:18] <kermit> Takyoji: #freeculture would know
[23:20] <Takyoji> alrighty
[23:50] <_diablo> kermit: in what possible way was the dmca a big win against copyrights?
[23:50] <kermit> _diablo: it clarified what you can and can't get away with
[23:51] <_diablo> kermit: but it made it so broad that you effectively can't do anything
[23:51] <_diablo> fair use was enlarged, but only to further the strength of copyright enforcement
[23:51] <kermit> i thought it worked like.. you can do anything until someone gives you a proper formal notice that you're infringing
[23:51] <_diablo> Takyoji: kermit, if you're interested in this, look up the book "against intellectual monopoly". it's written by 2 pretty smart economists.
[23:52] <_diablo> kermit: right, but there's no punishment for sending out too many of those letters. so they send them all over the place and scare ppl into submission
[23:52] <_diablo> because once it's sent, if you continue, the hammer gets smacked down
[23:52] <kermit> if you like economists, ##economics is really well run and has 50 people
[23:53] <_diablo> hmmmm, joining
[23:53] <kermit> this looks like a good book
[23:53] <_diablo> it's really good.
[23:53] <_diablo> i'm an econ major writing my senior thesis on FLOSS actually :)
[23:54] <Takyoji> Ooo
[23:55] <kermit> _diablo: the letters it suonds like you're referring to arent formal take down notices
[23:55] <kermit> _diablo: just the spam they send kids
[23:55] <kermit> i'm fairly sure there is punsihment for a formal take down notice
[23:55] <_diablo> kermit: really? I might have read the boingboing article incorrectly, but I thought that was what doctorow was writing
[23:56] <_diablo> and I know no countersuits have been won by any out of country corporations
[23:56] <_diablo> but gtg, off to class