[08:07] good morning [12:01] meeting is in an hour, right? [12:03] Pendulum, yep :-) [12:03] * Pendulum heads out. [12:04] will make as much of it as I can! [12:18] akgraner: so meeting is UTC +1 and not UTC :) [12:19] http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=4&day=8&year=2010&hour=12&min=0&sec=0&p1=0 [12:20] I just went with time and date so I guess it is +1 gotta love time changes [12:20] akgraner: which was why I mailed saying smack bang in the middle of my day [12:20] where as UTC+1 is lunchtime :) [12:22] I'm sorry about that - there is no one perfect time - which is why were are trying the 2200 and 1200 to see who can attend which time and dates [12:23] no matter what time - someone gets left out :-( [12:23] yarp [12:23] I know [12:54] ah, my server time says 1400 [12:58] Good Morning! meeting in 2 minutes :-) [13:00] Alrighty it's time for the meeting [13:00] #startmeeting [13:00] Meeting started at 12:00. The chair is akgraner. [13:00] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [PROGRESS REPORT], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [13:01] [TOPIC] - Attendance - Ok folks, who's here for the Ubuntu Women Project Meeting today? [13:01] New Topic: - Attendance - Ok folks, who's here for the Ubuntu Women Project Meeting today? [13:01] * svaksha waves [13:01] * pleia2 waves [13:02] awesome :-) [13:02] here is the agenda [13:02] [TOPIC] - Agenda - The agenda for today's meeting can be found at - http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/Meetings/April2010/Agenda [13:02] New Topic: - Agenda - The agenda for today's meeting can be found at - http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/Meetings/April2010/Agenda [13:03] hopefully a few other people will join in as we go through the agenda [13:03] * svaksha suggests moving the 1200 UTC meets to saturday or sunday [13:03] so today is the 1st meeting are trying the rotating meeting time [13:04] for EU folks its work time [13:04] I can't do the weekends I have other commitments :-( [13:04] it's 5AM here ;) [13:04] that's why on the 4th Thurs we are doing 2200UTC [13:04] heh, the TZ thing is tough :) [13:04] it is 8 am here on my day off :/ [13:04] good morning :) [13:05] good morning [13:05] good evening :) [13:05] yes and good evening to those in different TZ [13:05] we may have to adjust the 2nd Thursday time and see what is better but at least we are now trying the rotating meeting times [13:06] ok so at the last meeting we looked at the goals for the -M cycle [13:07] I still have to finish the blueprints but we have 3 items to start [13:07] [IDEA] - Blog / Website revamp [13:07] IDEA received: - Blog / Website revamp [13:07] I think the consensus on list was that we go to canonical first for a drupal site [13:07] [IDEA] - Mentoring Program [13:07] IDEA received: - Mentoring Program [13:08] pleia2, that is how I understood it [13:08] I also think that going to Canonical first for hosting would be the best [13:09] mentoring is a go [13:09] and logo [13:09] [IDEA] logo was the 3rd item [13:09] IDEA received: logo was the 3rd item [13:09] which is probably just a typeface update, but more discussion I guess? [13:09] It is my understanding that we only want the font changed [13:10] anyone know when we'll have the new font? [13:10] I thought it was supposed to be by the 29th but I could be confusing it with something else [13:10] +1 on the drupal and using the UW LP logo with font changes [13:11] since the logo is turning out to be small, maybe tossing the ongoing translations things on the blueprint is worthwhile? [13:11] great :-) we have a plan [13:12] * svaksha wonders if it will be possible to get ubuntu in orange and women in purple colored fonts in the logo? [13:12] pleia2, that is a great idea [13:12] sure we can try it [13:13] I would say that the translation project is going to be a long term project. There is always going to be something to add/translate to the wiki pages [13:13] IdleOne: sure, but we can set a few goals :) [13:13] yup :) [13:13] like fine-tune the process, have x languages done [13:13] absolutely [13:13] * Mamarok waves [13:13] hey Mamarok [13:13] hello Mamarok [13:13] the goals as I see it is standardizing the program - fixing links etc [13:13] Mamarok: [13:13] Mamarok, hey! [13:14] hi all [13:14] akgraner: agreed [13:15] pleia2, since you suggested the translation project be added to the blueprints - does anyone object to discussion that now [13:15] no [13:15] no [13:15] and then I can circle back to World Play Day [13:16] great! thanks [13:16] So I am going to post all the topics for translations [13:16] [TOPIC] Wiki Translations (1200UTC) -- lyz 2010-04-07 22:32:40 [13:16] [TOPIC] AllPages [13:16] [TOPIC] WeShouldFix [13:16] New Topic: Wiki Translations (1200UTC) -- lyz 2010-04-07 22:32:40 [13:16] New Topic: AllPages [13:16] [TOPIC] PagesNeedingTranslated [13:16] New Topic: WeShouldFix [13:16] akgraner: it will also be worthwhile to identify a few guardians for the page as per the language, for MIA situations [13:16] [TOPIC] Translators [13:16] [TOPIC] HowToTranslateWiki [13:16] New Topic: PagesNeedingTranslated [13:16] [TOPIC] Comments from dpm -- akgraner 2010-04-07 22:40:30 [13:16] New Topic: Translators [13:16] New Topic: HowToTranslateWiki [13:16] New Topic: Comments from dpm -- akgraner 2010-04-07 22:40:30 [13:17] svaksha, yep those are the things we need to iron out [13:17] probably want to do one at a time :) [13:17] yep I just want to get them in the channel :-) [13:17] I accidentally just the window :-) [13:17] well, if you do [TOPIC] then discuss it, mootbot puts a nice placeholder in the logs [13:18] :-) [13:18] [TOPIC] Wiki Translations (1200UTC) -- lyz 2010-04-07 22:32:40 [13:18] New Topic: Wiki Translations (1200UTC) -- lyz 2010-04-07 22:32:40 [13:18] anyway, I put this on the agenda because it came upon us pretty abruptly last week [13:18] and it was quickly apparent that it's quite a project :) [13:19] tell me when you want each point pleia2 and I will post them [13:19] sounds good [13:19] plus the enthusiasm on the list was great, and it's a good initiative [13:19] akgraner: next! [13:19] * svaksha agrees [13:19] [TOPIC] AllPages [13:19] New Topic: AllPages [13:19] so this is a page that akgraner put together [13:20] [LINK] - http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/AllPages [13:20] LINK received: - http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/AllPages [13:20] she's maintaining keeping it up to date with all the pages, so no worries there for now (I had maintainability concerns) [13:20] I added the little icons [13:20] it's mostly so we can get a visualization of where we stand as a whole [13:20] I just wanted to report that the UW Frech pages are coming along nicely. I have been keeping an eye on them and we have 5 pages complete with 4-5 people who have been working on them doing translation and typo fixing also. :) [13:20] then we can drill down in to the vital parts fo r translations [13:21] IdleOne: great! [13:21] IdleOne, thanks that is great! [13:21] maybe in the Translations table we can do svaksha's idea of having a "guardian" for each lang to do what IdleOne is doing for Fr? [13:21] I like that idea [13:21] pleia2: yes I think that is a good idea also [13:21] s/guardian/maintainer sounds better? [13:21] [IDEA] - Point of contact for each langauge [13:21] but back to AllPages, you can see we have a lot of pages we need to discuss whether they are translation-worthy [13:22] IDEA received: - Point of contact for each langauge [13:22] this is mostly because "I don't know" [13:22] I == me :) [13:22] not sure how to tackle this, but we should at some point, maybe bring a few topics to a meeting to discuss, or toss a few on the list every couple of weeks [13:22] any comments, or shall we move on to WeShouldFix ? [13:23] [IDEA] - add translation page topics agenda [13:23] IDEA received: - add translation page topics agenda [13:23] [TOPIC] WeShouldFix [13:23] New Topic: WeShouldFix [13:23] so elky made this page when she did all the work on the wiki [13:23] [LINK] - http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/WeShouldFix [13:23] LINK received: - http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/WeShouldFix [13:23] ooh, meeting [13:23] it's nice to see what you really-should-not-translate right now [13:24] but I'm not entirely sure of it's place at the moment since we're also maintaining "PagesNeedingTranslated" [13:24] hey elky! [13:24] as I see it we should keep both for now and see how things evolve [13:24] pleia2: one central page would be easier to keep track of [13:24] i've been in another window, didn't notice the time. sorry all. [13:25] IdleOne: yeah, but I'm not sure which will ultimately be the more useful and maintainable [13:25] IdleOne, "once central page" could easily become a monolith if you include the translation statuses [13:25] I think the WeShouldFIx is for pages other than translations as well yes? [13:25] yeah [13:25] pleia2: that is also a reason why we need Maintainers for the project [13:25] link the translation stuff /from/ the "one central page" [13:25] akgraner: yes [13:26] so we can pull translations off the fix page and link the translation table to the fix page if that sorta brings them together [13:26] * pleia2 nods [13:26] hehe elky didn't see your comment [13:26] akgraner, great minds, hon [13:26] yeppers [13:26] I don't translate so I don't know what the best workflow will be, so we'll be depending upon the translators here [13:26] but I think for now having both hanging out there is ok :) [13:27] so, PagesNeedingTranslated [13:27] [TOPIC] PagesNeedingTranslated [13:27] New Topic: PagesNeedingTranslated [13:27] (the translators who we appreciate very very very very very much! -- thanks again!) [13:27] [LINK] - http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/PagesNeedingTranslated [13:27] LINK received: - http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/PagesNeedingTranslated [13:27] another visual representation of status [13:27] Well this is what I think. We leave the pages as they are now and continue translating until we figure out what the best way of maintaining is [13:28] akgraner: do we have someone in charge of updating this page? [13:28] I see this as something that will evolve too [13:28] each translator is doing a great job for adding stuff [13:28] great [13:28] but - on sundays when I verify the all pages stuff [13:28] * pleia2 nods [13:29] I also verify what columns need shading if any [13:29] but if someone wants to take ownership of all that :-) [13:29] fwiw, ChallengingSexism is one of my "lets talk about" pages since it links to all english articles [13:29] please let me know [13:29] pleia2, there's nothing stopping us linking to a google translate page for those articles, you know [13:30] ilke+1 [13:30] elky+1 :/ [13:30] elky: yep, same is true for our other links pages (Links and WomenAchievers) [13:30] [IDEA] - Maintainer for PagesNeedingTranslated and AllPages [13:30] IDEA received: - Maintainer for PagesNeedingTranslated and AllPages [13:30] haha typing fail there [13:31] [IDEA] use google translate to translate articles [13:31] plus we need to simply go through ChallengingSexism, Links and WomenAchievers to see what's what, I think there is some overlap [13:31] brb, zapping food or dinner is going to end up being a bag of jubes :-/ [13:31] IDEA received: use google translate to translate articles [13:31] * svaksha thinks tha page is very useful [13:31] that * [13:31] translations would be even better [13:31] [IDEA] - cleaning up ChallengingSexism, Links and WomenAchievers prior to translating [13:31] IDEA received: - cleaning up ChallengingSexism, Links and WomenAchievers prior to translating [13:32] anyway - another comment on PagesNeedingTranslated I marked "Ideas" on AllPages as "Translate page idea, not content" [13:32] not sure how to communicate this on that table [13:32] back [13:32] the pages to hold off on are marked in read for don't translate (yet) [13:32] red [13:33] dang typing fail! [13:33] but some pages like this are scratchboards for people, not really translateable content, and may be useful as pages that people of different languges can use [13:33] so if you're in france and have an idea, toss it on Fr/Ideas [13:33] I think one area we need to focus translations on is the resources too [13:34] elky: good idea [13:34] [IDEA] identify how to show what topics vs pages need translating [13:34] IDEA received: identify how to show what topics vs pages need translating [13:34] I think that's all I had for PagesNeedingTranslated, we'll update it from AllPages as we discuss what else we want to see translated :) [13:35] thanks for your work on that akgraner! [13:35] [IDEA] - add resources to the translation table - by resource [13:35] IDEA received: - add resources to the translation table - by resource [13:35] pleia2, :-) wikis and I are friends *now* :-) [13:36] ready for the next item pleia2? [13:36] We should also consider asking for some language-specific MLs for the teams working on these pages [13:36] akgraner: yeah [13:37] [IDEA] work out localization resources [13:37] IDEA received: work out localization resources [13:37] I think a language specific mailing list may be a little overkill tbh [13:37] (not to be confused with LoCo teams) [13:37] [TOPIC] Translators [13:37] New Topic: Translators [13:37] pleia2: JFYI, French is not only spoken in France :) [13:37] Mamarok: I know, it was an example :) [13:37] OK [13:37] IdleOne is in canada [13:37] and issyl0 is in the uk! [13:37] Canada* [13:37] :P [13:38] both are french translators [13:38] Canuckistan* [13:38] hehe [13:38] so, Translators [13:38] I think the page is pretty decent [13:38] Canuckistanians are nice peoples [13:38] if a team does decide to have a mailing list, I think the link would go here [13:38] [LINK] - http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/Translators [13:38] LINK received: - http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/Translators [13:38] or they can just keep in contact via direct emails [13:39] also who the point of contacts would go on here as well I would thinkg [13:39] think [13:39] yeah [13:39] I'm also thinking about the teams leading the translation being able to seed language-specific UW groups [13:39] pleia2: I agree that for now language specific ml's is a bit much [13:39] I can set you the same list of languages for this page then columns for stuff based on the resources for each language [13:40] elky: yeah, for http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/Languages (which I forgot to add to the agenda) [13:40] isnt that the loco's responsibility <-- language specific [13:40] so language - name - IRC name - email - mailing list when/if - forum when/if etc [13:41] svaksha: we can certainly ask the locos to help [13:41] ofcourse you will have different versions of spanish, french, etc [13:41] akgraner: instead of discussing HowToTranslateWiki directly, want to just talk about your discussion with dpm? [13:42] sure [13:42] (or both at once :)) [13:42] let me drop the link in :-) [13:42] [TOPIC] HowToTranslateWiki [13:42] New Topic: HowToTranslateWiki [13:43] svaksha, not really. I see it as a partnership between UW and the LoCo "sections" [13:43] svaksha: the differences for me at least in French is when it is spoken. written French is/should be constant when properly done [13:43] [LINK] http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/HowToTranslateWiki [13:43] LINK received: http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/HowToTranslateWiki [13:43] this is an old page that clytie created back when she was involved in 2006 [13:43] [TOPIC] Comments from dpm [13:43] New Topic: Comments from dpm [13:43] tons of great content, but we weren't sure how up to date it was [13:43] so akgraner took it translations guru dpm [13:43] so I talked to dpm [13:44] and he took a look at it - and said that other than the broken links there were very minor changes [13:45] yay [13:45] less work is good! [13:45] dpm said it's minor but the abbreviations for the languages should be for example /fr/ instead of /Fr/ [13:45] he said minor but that would keep it consistent throughout the Ubuntu Project [13:45] akgraner: do you know if there is a page like this on wiki.ubuntu.com ? [13:46] I have to get that I asked for one but he didn't give me a link [13:46] if we're just duplicating data here, it's not great and we want to reference standard translation processes where possible [13:46] akgraner: from what I read, wiki standards use /Fr [13:46] I'll find one though [13:46] I could be wrong though [13:46] thanks :) [13:46] IdleOne, wiki standards or Ubuntu Wiki standards? [13:47] he also said that instead of saying - shoudl join translation team [13:47] (not necessarily the same :() [13:47] elky: ubuntu wiki standards [13:47] elky: agreed, but you will find some opposition to having a team of women in locos , even if it includes men. this is if you are suggesting having a team , that is [13:47] no not wiki standards [13:47] Ubuntu translation team standards [13:47] IdleOne: absolutely, that is true for almost all languages [13:47] but I will get examples and clarification [13:47] thanks akgraner [13:48] say encouraged to visit, talk to , etc the translation team [13:48] he said not to make is sound like something they had to do to help [13:48] good idea [13:48] all super easy corrections [13:48] * pleia2 nods [13:48] pleia2: yes, asking loco teams for generic help works well [13:49] akgraner: you want to take care of the cleanup for now, or should I? [13:49] I can work on it later today [13:49] he also said that we have taken the translation process one step farther with the table and the color coding and he loved it [13:49] svaksha, we english-speaking folks have here. the scared french-only folks or german-only folks are already largely excluded by the lingua franca of the project. I'd like for them to find a place of inclusiveness just like we've had the privilege of doing. If the loco isn't decent enough to do it, I don't see why we should stay on that level. [13:49] pleia2, if you can that would be great! [13:49] ok, action me at that :) [13:50] IdleOne: Fr would only make sense if this was an actual page, else it should be fr [13:50] [ACTION] - pleia2 to clean up wiki translation pages per dpm's suggestions [13:50] ACTION received: - pleia2 to clean up wiki translation pages per dpm's suggestions [13:50] elky: i understand that and largely agree with what you are saying. However if you peek into any loco you will find very few women there. I cant generalise for all locos and this comment is from and .IN perspective [13:50] he also said the /fr/ if you click on that should go somewhere [13:50] *an [13:51] actually locos is where I tend to see a high percentage of women internationally [13:51] right now most are -project.org/language/page [13:51] *more so* than in other teams [13:51] pleia2: some locos , not all [13:51] and the language part doesn't go anywhere [13:51] svaksha, .in struggles enough running a loco at all, so I'm not surprised [13:51] hehe [13:52] even have czajkowski on the loco council these days :) [13:52] but im pretty sure there'd be an .es market, for example [13:52] yes [13:52] even .br [13:52] .ar [13:52] ok so we are down to 8 mins [13:52] .br should be under .pt [13:52] and we need to touch on World Play Day as we would like to get this announced [13:52] .es as in the language [13:53] we can continue translation talk on list or after the meeting [13:53] so any objection to moving on? [13:53] IdleOne: dont suggest that to the team, you'd never get away with it ;) [13:53] svaksha: haha I know [13:53] pleia2, agreed [13:53] akgraner, metoo [13:53] [TOPIC] - World Play Day announcement / photo waiver - what CC licence do we want on waiver? [13:53] New Topic: - World Play Day announcement / photo waiver - what CC licence do we want on waiver? [13:53] IdleOne: ah..sorry, i misunderstood [13:53] I liked Matt's idea on list to simplify things [13:53] so the big question is - what license to we want [13:54] we want restricted license for the world, less restrictive for us [13:54] legally still a grey area, but we do our best [13:54] * svaksha will stay silent during legalese discussions [13:54] svaksha: what I meant was that they both speak portuguese (sic) but there are some major differences in culture [13:54] IdleOne: yes, major [13:54] pleia2, aiui, CC is still a grey area anyway in a lot of places [13:54] If we can pick a license then I can get a revamped waiver completed [13:54] elky: yep [13:54] I was going to use the UDS waiver [13:55] and through in a minor clause [13:55] throw in I mean [13:55] cc by-nc-nd is probably appropriate for the world [13:55] it both simplifies [13:55] akgraner: as long as we don't use the same licence facebook uses :( I did not realize I now do not own my own pictures posted on that site [13:55] and should cover the bases as Canonical as used it for a while now [13:56] has not as [13:56] IdleOne, you do still own them in so much as to equal rights as they do. [13:56] IdleOne, and i'd doubt that they can lay claim to your likeness in every country anyway [13:56] [TOPIC] - cc-by-nc-nd any objections to using that for the waiver? [13:56] New Topic: - cc-by-nc-nd any objections to using that for the waiver? [13:56] elky: yeah, for some reason that doesn't make me happy about it [13:57] is CC recognised world wide? [13:57] IdleOne, yeah. OT anyway [13:57] yup [13:57] pleia2, do you have the link to that license handy? [13:57] czajkowski: not positive, but I think it's the best we can do [13:57] czajkowski, depends on your definition of 'recognised'. [13:57] akgraner: http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/2.0/ [13:57] [LINK] - http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/2.0/ [13:57] LINK received: - http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/2.0/ [13:58] there are jurisdictions in the world where it has not been challenged in a court of law. until it does its job under those circumstnaces, it's not really legally recognised [13:58] pleia2: aye see over here it's not [13:58] czajkowski: which doesn't make it invalid [13:58] Mamarok: I just asked [13:59] not recognised != invalid [13:59] the GPL has not been chalenged in many other countries than the US and Germany neither [13:59] ok so was there any changes to the announcement? [13:59] akgraner: I just say integrate matt's suggetions to make it simpler [13:59] akgraner, etali iirc wanted us to specify specific formats [14:00] elky, yep I saw that one [14:00] she's right. .tiff is a "standard format" [14:00] pleia2, modifying the UDS one should simply it :-) [14:00] akgraner: ok great [14:00] and im not sure I want to be messing around with a dozen five-gig pictures [14:01] hehe :-( nah we don't want you doing that either :-) [14:01] I agree on standardising formats [14:01] so jpeg, png, what else? [14:01] just those i'd say [14:02] gif is way too lossy [14:02] yeah [14:02] [IDEA] - list photo format for pics, simplify waiver, and get corrections up on wiki [14:02] IDEA received: - list photo format for pics, simplify waiver, and get corrections up on wiki [14:02] sounds like a plan :) [14:03] [ACTION] announce competition on Friday, April 9th [14:03] ACTION received: announce competition on Friday, April 9th [14:03] everyone get your blogging boots on [14:03] sound ok to everyone? [14:03] w00t [14:03] akgraner, it's taken way longer than i'd hoped, so yeah. [14:03] and I'll make sure it gets on fridge once it's announced [14:04] and someone tell mark about it /before/ it's over this time, plzkthx [14:04] [TOPIC] - Reminder - next meeting April 22, 2010 at 2200UTC [14:04] New Topic: - Reminder - next meeting April 22, 2010 at 2200UTC [14:04] akgraner: can I ask once again that the meeting is added to the fridge calender please [14:04] czajkowski, yep [14:05] I've asked for the last 2 times just makes it easier to schedule other things [14:05] [ACTION] - add UW Meeting to Fridge Calendar - akgreaner [14:05] ACTION received: - add UW Meeting to Fridge Calendar - akgreaner [14:05] anyone can add to the fridge calendar, I guess we just need to get someone to keep on top of that [14:05] czajkowski, sorry about that if you don't see it on there can you email -news-team :-) [14:05] I can probably do that when I add to the UW cal [14:05] the UW cal can't syndicate in to it? [14:06] akgraner: when I create a meeting I automatically just add it to google cal adn invite the guest as per the instructions like it says to do [14:06] pleia2, I have access to - so let's remind one another [14:06] akgraner: ok :) [14:06] elky: not sure [14:06]