[16:06]  * hyperair just spotted the forcefully-shutdown-notify-osd block of code to work around memory leaks
[16:06] <hyperair> interesting workaround
[19:13] <hyperair> qense: hmm i saw your blog post about libappindicator0-cil not being in the dependencies. that would be a bug in appindicator's packaging
[19:13] <qense> hyperair: really?
[19:14] <qense> hyperair: how?
[19:14] <qense> The extension does depend on indicator-applet and indicator-application, but as far as I'm aware that's not necessary.
[19:14] <hyperair> qense: just like how shared libs are supposed to put themselves into ${shlibs:Depends}, cli libs are supposed to put themselves in ${cli:Depends}
[19:14] <hyperair> ${cli:Depends} is there, as evidenced by notify-sharp being pulled in
[19:15] <qense> yes
[19:15] <hyperair> but what's missing is libappindicator0-cil from that list
[19:15] <hyperair> which is why it's a bug in appindicator's side of things
[19:15] <qense> ok
[19:15] <hyperair> it's not generating the clilibs file
[19:15] <hyperair> what's the package name?
[19:15] <qense> appindicator-sharp-.01
[19:15] <qense> appindicator-sharp-0.1
[19:15] <hyperair> ah okay thanks
[19:16] <hyperair> i'll go fix it
[19:16] <hyperair> it's probably missing some dh_ calls
[19:16] <hyperair> dh_makeclilibs or something
[19:16] <qense> hyperair: great, thank you
[19:17] <hyperair> np
[19:17] <hyperair> i should have caught this earlier
[19:17] <qense> hyperair: but the source package is just indicator-application
[19:17] <hyperair> what
[19:17] <hyperair> say that first >_>
[19:17] <qense> I thought you were asking for the pkg-config name
[19:18] <hyperair> oh
[19:18]  * hyperair kicks pull-lp-source
[19:18] <hyperair> stupid thing
[19:19] <qense> sorry!
[19:19] <hyperair> nevermind
[19:19] <hyperair> that wasn't addressed to you
[19:19] <qense> hyperair: lp:~ubuntu-desktop/indicator-application/ubuntu
[19:19] <qense> ok
[19:19] <hyperair> eh i hate bzr. nevermind =p
[19:20] <hyperair> i'll just throw patches around
[19:20] <qense> I knew I wasn't the stupid thing. :)
[19:20] <hyperair> okay good =)
[19:20] <qense> but it's so easy!
[19:20] <hyperair> i like git.
[19:20] <hyperair> bzr trips me up
[19:20] <hyperair> it gets in my way
[19:20] <qense> they're both not bad
[19:21] <qense> bzr branch lp:branch -> edit -> bzr commit -m "message" --fixes lp:123 -> go to launchpad and file merge request
[19:21] <qense> done!
[19:21] <hyperair> well, when you've experienced wielding great power, stepping back to something less powerful really sucks
[19:21] <qense> that's true
[19:21] <qense> but not necessarily for Bazaar ;)
[19:21] <qense> according to me, of coruse
[19:21] <hyperair> heh
[19:21] <hyperair> i'm not going back to bzr. period. =p
[19:23] <hyperair> tedg needs a good kicking from the CLI team.
[19:24] <qense> I agree that Bazaar lacks the power of format-patch and am, and the distinction between author and committer, but I do think that Bazaar is better for (quick) distributed development.
[19:24] <qense> Bazaar is for opportunistic developers, GIT for kernel hackers. ;)
[19:25] <hyperair> i'm no kernel hacker
[19:25] <hyperair> i'm an opportunistic developer, but i appreciate my git.
[19:25] <qense> GIT is probably more suitable for large code bases like GNOME and Banshee, but I do think that Bazaar is easier for small projects.
[19:26] <vish> jcastro: hi.. got a sec?
[19:26] <hyperair> git has pristine-tar.
[19:26] <hyperair> qense: do me a favour and dpkg -L libappindicator0-cil for me please? thanks
[19:26] <hyperair> pastebin that too
[19:27] <qense> hyperair: 
[19:27] <qense> http://paste.ubuntu.com/412226/
[19:27] <hyperair> thanks
[19:27]  * hyperair groans
[19:27] <qense> what?
[19:28] <qense> The non-confirmation to assembly standards again you spoke about earlier?
[19:29] <hyperair> qense: yeah, that.
[19:29] <hyperair> the package throws things into the gac directly
[19:29] <hyperair> and installs files in the middle of nowhere
[19:29] <hyperair> it's supposed to be in /usr/lib/cli/blah
[19:29] <hyperair> and use dh_installcligac
[19:30] <qense> hyperair: bzr branch and file a merge request! ;)
[19:30] <hyperair> see, this is why many seasoned ubuntu developers suck. they don't read policies anymore and just whack up some half-baked packaging.
[19:30] <hyperair> qense: i'll throw a debdiff.
[19:30] <qense> ok
[19:30] <qense> That'll do
[19:31] <hyperair> if i can even figure out how to begin fixing this mess.
[19:31] <qense> hyperair: I think it's because the policies don't have such a central place in Ubuntu as they do in Debian. We don't have them on our wiki and linked to from everywhere.
[19:32] <hyperair> qense: it is the ubuntu developer's job to *LOOK* for the policies
[19:32] <hyperair> qense: either way there's a package for it.
[19:32] <hyperair> containing all the policies
[19:33] <hyperair> and if they can't find the policy, then it's their job to ask the people who know where it is
[19:33] <hyperair> ah yes, the package is cli-common
[19:33] <hyperair> that's where the policy resides
[19:35] <qense> plus: ubuntu-policy and debian-policy
[19:35] <hyperair> right.
[19:36] <qense> hyperair: Do you want me to mark the bug as In Progress and assign it to you?
[19:36] <hyperair> qense: please do.
[19:36] <qense> ok
[19:36] <hyperair> er what bug?
[19:36] <qense> bug 560095
[19:36] <ubot4`> Launchpad bug 560095 in banshee-community-extensions (Ubuntu) "banshee-extension-appindicator doesn't depend on libappindicator0-cil, but it has to (affects: 4) (heat: 20)" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/560095
[19:36]  * hyperair didn't see it
[19:36] <hyperair> oh please point it to indicator-application
[19:36] <hyperair> thanks
[19:37] <qense> yw
[19:45] <hyperair> qense: could you pastebin the output of ls /var/lib/dpkg/info/libappindicator0-cil.*?
[19:45]  * hyperair really needs a lucid environment
[19:46] <qense> I'll be your Lucid environment :)
[19:46] <qense> hyperair: /var/lib/dpkg/info/libappindicator0-cil.list  /var/lib/dpkg/info/libappindicator0-cil.md5sums
[19:46] <hyperair> hmm
[19:47] <hyperair> thanks
[19:50] <hyperair> heh. i thought it was weird. looks like dh_makeclilibs was being called in the wrong place.
[19:52] <hyperair> make: Circular binary/libappindicator0-cil <- binary-arch dependency dropped.
[19:52] <hyperair> this is what happened.
[19:52] <qense> ah
[19:52] <jcastro> vish: yo yo
[19:52] <qense> I think this happened because there is not much C# experience in the Ubuntu/Canonical Desktop team.
[19:52] <qense> They know what they're doing, but less when it's about Mono. ;)
[19:52] <hyperair> along with cdbs stupidity.
[19:52] <jcastro> that was before we had RAOF around. :D
[19:53] <vish> jcastro: heya > pm
[19:53] <hyperair> jcastro: tedg still doesn't know what he's doing regarding cli libs packaging >_>
[19:54] <hyperair> jcastro: which is why b-e-appind has missing dependencies, and needs to be rebuilt.
[19:54] <jcastro> hyperair: please file a bug on ted.
[19:54] <qense> jcastro: I filed a bug on hyperair :)
[19:54] <hyperair> jcastro: the bug that caused this wasn't policy breakage, but a failure in writing a proper debian/rules.
[19:55] <jcastro> ok
[19:56] <jcastro> what's up with the icon messed up for non-app-indicator tray?
[19:56] <jcastro> ALSO, I found a great tip
[19:56] <jcastro> since I now want my banshee there all the time I launch it at startup with "banshee-1 --quiet", FOR THE WIN.
[19:56] <hyperair> jcastro: that's a regression in gtk, the panel, the notification area, or the engine.
[19:56] <jcastro> hah, so situation "normal"
[19:56] <hyperair> jcastro: what's --quiet?
[19:57] <jcastro> it launches it minimized
[19:57] <jcastro> in the app indicator
[19:57] <hyperair> ah
[19:57] <hyperair> heh
[19:57] <qense> Like Rhythmbox does by default.
[19:57] <hyperair> i thought it was banshee-1 --hide
[19:57] <jcastro> oh dude, yeah, --hide, my bad
[19:57] <jcastro> I just checked
[19:57] <jcastro> qense: does it?
[19:57] <jcastro> I've not been able to find out how to do that
[19:57] <qense> jcastro: yes, it's a bug, supposedly reported but not solved
[19:57] <hyperair> lol
[19:57] <qense> hyperair: I thought it was a regression in all the things you named + the themes
[19:57] <jcastro> hey so if it's totally broken in the tray case then clearly we should ship with the app indicator on by default in ubuntu!
[19:57] <hyperair> qense: er right. that too, maybe
[19:58] <qense> jcastro: maybe it's an option in gconf-editor
[19:58] <hyperair> nooooooooooooooo
[19:58] <jcastro> hyperair: come on dude, it looks freaking great up there
[19:58] <jcastro> with the shiny new icon
[19:58] <hyperair> jcastro: the menu looks bad in my eyes.
[19:58] <jcastro> it's lovely
[19:58] <hyperair> jcastro: gimme back my scrolling superpowers and my tooltip and i'll gladly worship the appindicators.
[19:58] <qense> hyperair: the notification problems are quite severe and deep and nasty. There have been released fixes for that bug several times in several packages, but it still persists.
[19:58] <qense> hyperair: scrolling is back, at least in libindicator
[19:58] <jcastro> hmm yeah, in hindsight maybe it should have seperators like the rb one
[19:59] <jcastro> hyperair: we got the scrolling back for the system volume
[19:59] <qense> that was ugly
[19:59] <qense> :)
[19:59] <jcastro> maybe I can fix ted at UDS wrt. the music player volume
[19:59] <hyperair> changing tracks!
[19:59] <qense> that's inconsistency!
[19:59] <hyperair> it's rhythmbox being inconsistent
[20:00] <hyperair> if the volume indicator changes the volume, then it's only right that the media player changes the currently playing track
[20:00] <jcastro> oh you mean scrolling on the icon to change tracks
[20:00] <hyperair> it's logical.
[20:00] <hyperair> yes, that thing you hate so much
[20:00] <jcastro> do you know the history behind that feature?
[20:00] <jcastro> jimmac got one of those usb scrolly wheel things
[20:00] <hyperair> you told me once, but i don't really care much
[20:00] <jcastro> and wanted to use it, so they added that
[20:00] <hyperair> well. i want to use it with my mouse.
[20:01] <hyperair> it works perfectly in conjunction to my fat tooltip that shows me what song is currently playing
[20:01]  * jcastro has a keyboard key for that
[20:01] <hyperair> scroll once, the current song updates
[20:01] <hyperair> don't like? scroll more
[20:01] <jcastro> hmmm
[20:01] <jcastro> hey
[20:01] <hyperair> keep in mind that not all keyboards have media keys
[20:01] <jcastro> notifications and keyboard shortcuts are broken for me
[20:01] <hyperair> my current usb keyboard doesn't.
[20:01] <jcastro> hyperair: yeah it's why I'm not strongly for or against it
[20:01] <hyperair> notifications? blame that on qense =p
[20:01] <jcastro> I still think it's crack
[20:02] <qense> notification cannot be broken
[20:02] <hyperair> i don't see an enable-notifications/disable-notifications option there
[20:02] <hyperair> qense: where's it on your menu?
[20:02] <qense> We removed that because it was redundant.
[20:02] <jcastro> oh wait
[20:02] <qense> too much clutter
[20:02] <jcastro> it works
[20:02] <qense> see!
[20:02] <jcastro> it's my keyboard shortcuts that are broken
[20:02] <hyperair> qense: but i want to *disable* it!
[20:02] <qense> It only doesn't work when you have the main window focussed.
[20:02] <hyperair> qense: because notify-osd leaks memory like hell when it's enabled.
[20:03] <qense> hyperair: there is a preference for in the extension, but I'm not sure where you can edit it. gconf?
[20:03] <qense> hyperair: use a different notification daemon!
[20:03] <hyperair> qense: no! notify-osd rocks!
[20:03] <hyperair> at least, UI-wise
[20:03] <hyperair> it sucks in terms of memory leakage
[20:03] <hyperair> and implementation wise, i think it was pretty messed up >_>
[20:03] <qense> In Banshee?
[20:04] <jcastro> didn't we just upload a new version?
[20:04] <hyperair> jcastro: the new version *still* sucks.
[20:04] <hyperair> qense: what?
[20:04] <qense> nvm
[20:04] <hyperair> jcastro: i compiled my notify-osd and now my volume notifications don't show up >_>
[20:04] <qense> We should reevaluate Notify OSD during the UDS. Especially considering the fact that GNOME Shell is persuing something very similar,.
[20:05] <jcastro> let's start with keyboard shortcuts
[20:05] <jcastro> are yours working?
[20:06] <qense> What shortcuts, for play and pause?
[20:06] <qense> What are they?
[20:07] <qense> The menu should be using the same GtkAction for PlayPause as the GtkStatusIcon.
[20:07] <hyperair> jcastro: yes they do, with karmic's notify-osd. everything.
[20:09] <jcastro> mine are busted in lucid
[20:09] <hyperair> jcastro: i think that's handled by gnome-settings-daemon
[20:10] <hyperair> jcastro: global media keys, right?
[20:10] <qense> That isn't something for the menu, iirc.
[20:10] <qense> the AppInd menu nor the GtkStatusIcon menu
[20:11] <hyperair> okay, for some strange reason, notify-osd is adding "notification-" in front of my volume icon names
[20:11] <hyperair> loading icon 'notification-notification-audio-volume-high' caused error: 'Icon 'notification-notification-audio-volume-high' not present in theme'loading icon 'notification-audio-volume-high' caused error: 'Icon 'notification-audio-volume-high' not present in theme'** (notify-osd:15339): DEBUG: [2010-04-11T03:11:51-00:00, gnome-settings-daemon, id:0, icon:notification-audio-volume-high (synchronous)] 
[20:12] <hyperair> see?
[20:12] <qense> hyperair: did you install the new notify-osd-icons?
[20:13] <hyperair> qense: nonono, look at it properly.
[20:13] <hyperair> qense: look at the message.
[20:13] <qense> ah
[20:13] <hyperair> "loading Icon 'notification-notification-audio-volume-high'"
[20:13] <qense> what sound applet do you have?
[20:13] <hyperair> gnome-settings-daemon
[20:13] <hyperair> this is karmic
[20:14] <qense> maybe that's where the bug is. Maybe the notification- prefix was stripped in Lucid.
[20:17] <hyperair> perhaps it was
[20:17] <hyperair> but i can't find where it's prepended
[20:17] <hyperair> but in other news, i think i found where notify-osd is leaking!!
[20:17] <hyperair> =D
[20:17] <qense> yay!
[20:18] <hyperair> first it does g_memdup
[20:18] <hyperair> after that it passes the data to gdk_pixbuf_new_from_data
[20:18] <hyperair> but it doesn't give it a function to free the data
[20:19] <hyperair> so it's never freed
[20:19] <hyperair> which explains why my hi-res album art always screws around with notify-osd
[20:22] <hyperair> qense: #ifdef TEMPORARY_ICON_PREFIX_WORKAROUND
[20:22] <hyperair> I FOUND IT
[20:28] <qense> yay!
[20:28] <qense> hyperair: report, diff, report!
[20:28] <hyperair> heh
[20:28] <qense> hyperair: You want to speak to MacSlow, but he's in my timezone and mostly unavailable outside working hours.
[20:29] <hyperair> wait, this might not be it  =\
[20:30] <qense> anyway, I've been online for far too long already. I'm shutting down!
[20:37] <chrisccoulson_> heh, i keep getting highlighted because of people talking about gnome-settings-daemon ;)
[20:38] <chrisccoulson_> can you talk about something else? ;)
[20:51] <hyperair> we've stopped, i think.
[23:18] <hyperair> yay appind now works as expected, clilibs and all.