[00:00] <godbyk> daker: you need help transferring the website files from the ubuntu-manual branch to the ubuntu-manual-website branch?
[00:01] <daker> no with Series and milestones
[00:01] <daker> ??!!!
[00:01] <daker> i don't know if waht i am doing is correct or not :)
[00:02] <godbyk> daker: it looks like it's probably okay to me.
[00:02] <godbyk> I don't really understand them all fully, either.
[00:02] <godbyk> Basically, the milestones are things like alpha, beta, release candidate, etc.
[00:02] <daker> o.O
[00:02] <godbyk> and a series is where you want to work on two things in parallel.
[00:03] <godbyk> do we need to have milestones for the website? we have most of it done already, don't we?
[00:03] <daker> yes
[00:15] <daker> if i want to move all the UMP website from https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual to https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-website
[00:15] <daker> possible ?
[00:16] <godbyk> daker: the translations will automatically appear.  if the translators translate something in the UMP and it's the same string that's in the website, then it'll automatically appear.
[00:18] <daker> oki
[02:48] <humphreybc> hi all
[02:48] <daker> hi humphreybc
[02:49] <humphreybc> :)
[02:49] <daker> it was a looong time
[02:51] <humphreybc> how's the website stuff going daker?
[02:53] <daker> i am going to move the website to lp:ubuntu-manual-website
[02:53] <godbyk> hey, humphreybc.
[03:07] <humphreybc> daker: cool
[03:07] <humphreybc> hey kevin
[03:08] <daker> and you what's up ?
[03:08] <humphreybc> not a lot
[03:08] <humphreybc> need to tidy my room up today, it's a bit of a mess
[03:08]  * humphreybc might re-design nautilus 
[03:09] <godbyk> redesign it how?
[03:09] <humphreybc> make it more streamlined, less cluttered
[03:10] <humphreybc> sort of like the elementary team has done
[03:10] <humphreybc> i also just want to draw some stuff on graph paper
[03:10] <humphreybc> :)
[03:11] <godbyk> gotcha.
[03:11] <humphreybc> yeah
[03:11] <godbyk> didn't a couple different people do that a while back? (wasn't there a post or two on OMG or Planet GNOME about some mockups, at least?)
[03:12] <humphreybc> maybe
[03:12] <humphreybc> I think Ubuntu should fork Nautilus
[03:12] <humphreybc> and make it better
[03:12] <humphreybc> but i'll talk to you about that in a PM later today
[03:12] <godbyk> 'kay.
[03:28] <godbyk> humphreybc: Can you get the list of contributors/credits to me sometime soonish? I'd like to get that dumped into the PDF (and website) and figure out which parts the translators need to translate.
[03:28] <humphreybc> okay
[03:28] <humphreybc> i'll work on that today
[03:28] <godbyk> It would be great if we could get everyone's names both in Latin script and whatever their preferred script is.
[03:29] <humphreybc> hm
[03:29] <humphreybc> yeah
[03:29] <humphreybc> might be a bit hard though
[03:29] <humphreybc> i'll see what I can do
[03:29] <godbyk> cool.
[03:29] <godbyk> I don't know if it's a matter of emailing the list and translators and asking for their names or what.
[03:29] <humphreybc> i think i'll go through all the launchpad contributors etc first, grab everyone
[03:30] <humphreybc> and the ones who have odd names i'll try to contact individually
[03:30] <godbyk> Also, if anyone has copied text from another project, we need to know what that text is licensed under, hope that it's compatible, and cite it if necessary.
[03:30] <humphreybc> yeah
[03:30] <humphreybc> i think Ilya took the firefox stuff from mozilla
[03:30] <godbyk> yeah, and that's in the credits already, I think.  but other text may have come from the ubuntu docs project. I'm not sure what their license is (haven't looked).
[03:31] <humphreybc> same as ours
[03:31] <humphreybc> we can just credit them anyway
[03:31] <godbyk> that may be something we have to ask the authors (and hope they're honest about it).
[03:31] <humphreybc> let's just credit them anyway
[03:31] <humphreybc> stick them in special thanks
[03:31] <godbyk> we can, that's not a problem.
[03:31] <humphreybc> :)
[03:31] <godbyk> I just don't want to miss anyone/anything.
[03:31] <humphreybc> keep em' happy :P
[03:31] <humphreybc> yeah, i know
[03:31] <humphreybc> it'll be a bit hard
[03:32] <godbyk> we'll have to organize all that better for this next edition. :)
[03:32] <godbyk> It's all going to be easier the second time 'round, right?  Right?  :-)
[03:32] <humphreybc> ugh
[03:32] <humphreybc> honestly? no :)
[03:32] <humphreybc> it'll be just the same
[03:32] <humphreybc> if it's easy, it's boring
[03:32] <humphreybc> people like challenges, keeps them interested and occupied
[03:34] <godbyk> ha!
[03:35] <humphreybc> you think i'm joking ;)
[03:36] <godbyk> I'm hoping so! :)
[03:37]  * daker is upgrading to Lucid
[08:51]  * humphreybc just had his interview for the Full Circle Magazine podcast, went really well
[09:06] <humphreybc> when is translation support going to hit ubuntu-manual.org?
[09:12] <godbyk> humphreybc: When daker's ready to make the test.ubuntu-manual.org site the ubuntu-manual.org site.
[09:12] <godbyk> I emailed him about it a bit earlier.
[09:14] <humphreybc> k
[09:15] <ubuntujenkins> morning all
[09:15] <ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: can you put me down as a writer on the website please
[09:19] <ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: on the wiki what would you like me to do about the meeting that is listed there for the 2oth march?
[09:23] <humphreybc> luke, the "titles" will be different for the actual credits in the PDF
[09:23] <humphreybc> I'll put you as Author, Quickshot developer
[09:23] <humphreybc> but then we've all done multiple things
[09:23] <humphreybc> in theory I should have Team lead, Author, Editor, Web designer etc etc
[09:23] <humphreybc> but in the PDF it'll be different
[09:23] <ubuntujenkins> ok true just leav it as quickhsot
[09:23] <ubuntujenkins> you have a good point
[09:24] <humphreybc> and for the wiki, just remove the stuff about the 20th march thing
[09:24] <ubuntujenkins> ok will do
[09:25] <humphreybc> :)
[09:43]  * ubuntujenkins meeting done
[09:49] <popey> whats wrong with the textlive in the ubuntu repo for lucid?
[09:49] <popey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-manual/authors suggests getting texlive from upstream?
[09:50] <humphreybc> popey: not enough character support for all the languages
[09:50] <popey> so if I wanted to build the manual for en-gb it would be fine?
[09:50] <humphreybc> no, you'll need texlive 2009 unfortunately
[09:51] <humphreybc> i think so
[09:51] <ubuntujenkins> yep you need the upstream ones even for english
[09:51] <godbyk> popey: The Lucid packages don't have the latest TeX packages that we require (specifically, polyglossia).
[09:51] <popey> is upstream just newer than the one in lucid?
[09:51] <popey> is there a bug filed?
[09:52] <humphreybc> i think it's not a bug, more just the fact TeX 2009 is quite new
[09:52] <godbyk> popey: Probably not. I haven't looked at the packages for a few months.
[09:53] <godbyk> popey: Basically, the Lucid packages will never keep up to date with the TeX Live packages themselves.
[09:54] <godbyk> popey: We're using some leading edge packages for the TeX stuff (and we're actually contributing some code back to them).
[09:56] <popey> ok, thanks
[09:56] <godbyk> No problem.
[10:48]  * ubuntujenkins shouts at python dbus
[13:45] <ubuntujenkins> hello all
[13:45] <daker> hi
[13:45] <daker> lucid looks good
[13:47] <ubuntujenkins> hi daker lucid is good, i have had it since alpha 2/3 I think
[13:48] <daker> from last night
[13:48] <ubuntujenkins> I installed 9.04 yesterday in a vm and that looks so old and wierd
[13:49] <daker> hhh
[19:55] <ubuntujenkins> evening everyone
[20:29] <daker> :)
[20:38] <ubuntujenkins> hello daker, how was your day?
[21:48]  * ubuntujenkins and quickshot fails on another local
[22:02]  * ubuntujenkins doesn't understand why it doesn't work
[22:02] <ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: ping
[22:21] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: which locale is failing now?
[22:22] <ubuntujenkins> all of Serbian language I have filled a bug against the python module. titeuf put in a work around but it doesn't appear to work
[22:24] <ubuntujenkins> nope that work around was for something else just trying to write one now
[22:25] <godbyk> gotcha.
[22:26] <godbyk> so is it just that pybabel (or whichever module) doesn't know about all the locales we're using? or something else?
[22:27] <ubuntujenkins> I hope the user is using the ppa. It isn't pybabel all pypbabel does is provide us with a pretty display name for the language. its the locale module that that issue is in
[22:28] <godbyk> ah
[22:28] <ubuntujenkins> ok type $LANG in your teminal
[22:28] <ubuntujenkins> how can i extract the first two letters of it?
[22:29] <godbyk> with python?
[22:29] <godbyk> you actually want to extract up to the underscore
[22:30] <godbyk> so: (lang_code, locale_code) = LANG.split("_", 2)
[22:30] <godbyk> or something like that.
[22:30] <ubuntujenkins> exacltly, with python ideal or bash
[22:30] <godbyk> then lang_code will be the stuff before the _ and locale_code is everything after.
[22:30] <ubuntujenkins> I don't know if your suggestion works
[22:30] <ubuntujenkins> yes all we need is the first bit as far as i know
[22:31] <godbyk> $ python
[22:31] <godbyk> Python 2.6.4 (r264:75706, Dec  7 2009, 18:43:55)
[22:31] <godbyk> [GCC 4.4.1] on linux2
[22:31] <godbyk> Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
[22:31] <godbyk> >>> (lang, locale) = "en_US.UTF-8".split("_", 2)
[22:31] <godbyk> >>> print lang
[22:31] <godbyk> en
[22:31] <godbyk> >>> print locale
[22:31] <godbyk> US.UTF-8
[22:31] <godbyk> >>>
[22:31] <ubuntujenkins> thanks godbyk that helps to fix it
[22:31] <godbyk> 'kay.
[22:32] <godbyk> you could further splut the locale into locale and encoding (split on the .)
[22:32] <ubuntujenkins> I don't "think" it is needed, every day is a learning day for me :-)
[22:33]  * ubuntujenkins was pleased he helped someone else with python today
[22:56] <Red_HamsterX> godbyk, that should actually be .split('_', 1). The integer is the maximum number of times to split, nit the maximum number of returned elements.
[22:57] <godbyk> Red_HamsterX: Ah, thanks.
[22:57] <godbyk> I haven't written python code for quite some time.
[22:58] <Red_HamsterX> Other languages, like Java, work that way.
[22:58] <Red_HamsterX> So confusion is understandable.
[22:58] <Red_HamsterX> (I make that mistake when switching between Python and Java sometimes)
[22:58] <Red_HamsterX> (It's quite annoying)
[22:58]  * ubuntujenkins notes that
[22:58] <godbyk> I can imagine.
[22:58] <Red_HamsterX> (Like any other off-by-one issue)
[23:00] <ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: bug 554861 has got another local that doesn't work I am writing a work around. Also filed a bug against the locale module and people are replying to it so quickly. un like ubuntu stuff
[23:00] <manualbot> Launchpad bug 554861 in quickshot "Quickshot crashes on unknown locale" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/554861
[23:00] <Red_HamsterX> Python's issue tracker is weird.
[23:01] <Red_HamsterX> Sometimes things are investigated quickly, even when minor, and sometimes major things go ignored for weeks.
[23:01] <Red_HamsterX> I'll see if I can write a patch against it if nobody claims ownership by tomorrow.
[23:02] <ubuntujenkins> I am not sure i filed it against the right thing at them moment put a patch would be nice if you can do it.
[23:03] <ubuntujenkins> if you look at https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/quickshot/+bug/554861/comments/6
[23:03] <manualbot> Launchpad bug 554861 in quickshot "Quickshot crashes on unknown locale" [Medium,Confirmed]
[23:03] <Red_HamsterX> Python's dev team is pretty good about spotting duplicates and moving stuff to the right place.
[23:03] <ubuntujenkins> ooo i did file it right "Actually, my diagnosis was wrong. The locale module contains a list of locale aliases and some of the Serbian ones are missing. A recent locale.alias file from X11 is more complete."
[23:04] <ubuntujenkins> anyway what i was going to ask form the output of https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/quickshot/+bug/554861/comments/6 would this be the right thing to except "except ValueError: unknown locale:"
[23:04] <manualbot> Launchpad bug 554861 in quickshot "Quickshot crashes on unknown locale" [Medium,Confirmed]
[23:04] <Red_HamsterX> Of course, we won't see that fix until 2.7, so we'll have to catch ValueError.
[23:06] <Red_HamsterX> Yeah, "except ValueError, e: error-log-write("Unable to process locale: %(error)s" % {'error': str(e),}"
[23:06] <godbyk> I have four locale.alias files on my system (at least that locate locale.alias found for me)
[23:06] <godbyk> the X11 one has the sr_RS entry, but the others don't.
[23:07] <Red_HamsterX> Where we'd replace the string with something more uniform after evaluating how we should rebuild stuff.
[23:10] <ubuntujenkins> hang on i am confused
[23:11] <ubuntujenkins> why are we using short_code = locale.getdefaultlocale()[0] when we could use short_code = = os.environ['LANG']
[23:11] <ubuntujenkins> ignore th double =
[23:11] <ubuntujenkins> *the
[23:11]  * ubuntujenkins typing fail
[23:12] <Red_HamsterX> We'd have to ask titeuf. I assumed it was because getdefaultlocale() did some sort of validation that he found helpful/necessary.
[23:12] <ubuntujenkins> if we use the other way it would save us the problems.
[23:13] <ubuntujenkins> If i understand it right
[23:14] <Red_HamsterX> It likely would, yes.
[23:14] <ubuntujenkins> reply form the bug is "getdefaultlocale is inherently unmaintainable, and shouldn't be used by applications. I wish it was removed from Python (but unfortunately, too many people got tricked into believing that it does something useful).
[23:14] <ubuntujenkins> That said, if anybody feels like updating the tables from the various data sources, please go ahead."
[23:14] <Red_HamsterX> But we'd need to make sure Ubuntu can't possibly mess up $LANG.
[23:15] <Red_HamsterX> I can commit a patch against 2.7/3.2, then.
[23:15] <Red_HamsterX> Switch to $LANG, I guess.
[23:15] <ubuntujenkins> thanks, i don't know what others are missing yet
[23:18] <ubuntujenkins> I will drop titeuf an e-mail just to double check if there was a reason. I will impliment it and release it in the morning unless there is an issue. and do another cd is suppose.
[23:18] <godbyk> Per the description, getdefaultlocale() looks at the four locale-related environment variables and parses them in order of precedence.
[23:19] <ubuntujenkins> which are those variables and where would i find them?
[23:20] <godbyk> Whereas LANG itself can be overriden by $LANGUAGE.
[23:20] <godbyk> http://www.gnu.org/software/hello/manual/gettext/Locale-Environment-Variables.html
[23:21] <ubuntujenkins> ok I will keep what i wrote and look for the error from getdefaultlocale and use os,envi.... as a fall back
[23:21] <godbyk> k
[23:22] <ubuntujenkins> thanks guys, I am going to bed
[23:22] <ubuntujenkins> night o/