[00:00] <txwikinger> imbrandon: you mean the ones that don't use mono :D
[00:01] <imbrandon> no i mean the billions arround the planet not in the US or UK
[00:05] <imbrandon>   /msg  txwikinger oops it was IBM not MS in the curent case and its 106 not 160, but the case is IBM vs Roger Bowler ( reguarding the Hercules mainframe emulator )
[00:05] <imbrandon> err crap
[00:06] <imbrandon> okies, i got to run for a bit anyhow, back in an hour or so fellas, dont have tooo much fun
[00:06] <txwikinger> imbrandon: Ah yes.. I have heard about that issue, however, asaik it is not even in front of court yet
[00:06] <apachelogger> new round of uno in #kubuntu-playtime
[00:06] <apachelogger> in case you two care :P
[00:08]  * txwikinger is afk for dinner
[00:08] <apachelogger> oh my
[00:08] <apachelogger> kubotu: np
[00:08] <kubotu> apachelogger is listening to "Qt 4 Dance" by Finn Arild/Trolltech -- see http://www.last.fm/user/apachelogger for more
[00:08] <apachelogger> :D :D :D :D
[00:08] <apachelogger> weeeeheeee
[00:08]  * apachelogger takes Nightrose for a dance
[00:09] <ScottK> imbrandon: That's probably case has been covered on Groklaw recently.
[00:10] <apachelogger> jjesse: o/ uno in #kubuntu-playtime
[00:11] <jjesse> would love to but on briefly, be back after i take out the trash and walk the dog
[00:12] <apachelogger> oh
[00:12] <apachelogger> jjesse: have fun ;)
[00:12] <jjesse> apachelogger: thanks wouldn't consider it fun ;)
[00:12] <apachelogger> Who would ;)
[00:18]  * apachelogger installs russian
[00:19] <apachelogger> hi promulo
[00:21]  * DarkwingDuck grumbles
[00:21] <DarkwingDuck> Woah, that's a handfull for the 10.10 wishlist... https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/10.10/Brainstorm
[00:24] <ScottK> DarkwingDuck: Get to work.
[00:25] <DarkwingDuck> ScottK: What am I supposed to be doing? :P
[00:26] <ScottK> DarkwingDuck: You're the one with the list.
[00:26] <DarkwingDuck> Actually, ScottK, is there anything I can help with for netbook?
[00:26] <ScottK> I think we're in pretty good shape.
[00:26] <DarkwingDuck> Ok, cool.
[00:26] <DarkwingDuck> We use khelpcenter or, do we use a modified version of yelp?
[00:26] <ScottK> DarkwingDuck: Could you check and see if there are any screenshots for digikam or kipi-plugins in kubuntu-docs?
[00:27] <ScottK> There's some discussion of an update and it'd be good to know if it'd affect docs.
[00:27] <imbrandon> back
[00:27] <DarkwingDuck> Ok, gimme a few
[00:28] <imbrandon> hrm can the knr and the full gui reside peacefully on the same laptop ScottK
[00:28]  * imbrandon ponders
[00:29] <ScottK> imbrandon: Yes.  There's a kcm to picking which one you want to run if both plasma-netbook and plasma-desktop are installed.
[00:30] <ScottK> to picking/for picking
[00:30] <imbrandon> k
[00:31] <imbrandon> whats the current todo list look like ? any itches i can scratch tonight ?
[00:31] <apachelogger> bug 560976
[00:31] <imbrandon> maybe getting rid of the search tab in khelp ;)
[00:31] <apachelogger> at times I wonder
[00:31] <DarkwingDuck> mmmm.... Am I the only one with broken images in kubuntu-docs? can someone go to /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/kubuntu/ and let me know if images are working?
[00:32] <DarkwingDuck> Well, okay then.
[00:32] <DarkwingDuck> It's only broken with firefox
[00:32] <apachelogger> and there comes the locobot querying me
[00:36] <DarkwingDuck> ScottK: No screen shots
[00:38] <apachelogger> DarkwingDuck: where in specific?
[00:38] <DarkwingDuck> apachelogger: hmm?
[00:38] <apachelogger> imbrandon: you could get rid of khc ;)
[00:38] <apachelogger> DarkwingDuck: what precise page I can see that?
[00:38] <DarkwingDuck> apachelogger: See... digikam?
[00:39] <DarkwingDuck> Oh, my problem
[00:39] <imbrandon> apachelogger, i think thats a bit optimistic for only 15 days left and past beta 2, BUT getting rid of the search tab wouldent be all bad per that bug
[00:39] <imbrandon> right ?
[00:39] <DarkwingDuck> Any of them. The images were not showing up in firefox. Any of the pages.
[00:40] <apachelogger> DarkwingDuck: oh
[00:40] <apachelogger> DarkwingDuck: from /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/kubuntu/photos/graphics.html it seems as if it uses urls of the sort help:/foobar
[00:40] <apachelogger> which of course only works in konqueror and/or khc
[00:41] <DarkwingDuck> Right. It's on my ToDo list ;)
[00:41] <apachelogger> imbrandon: I guess getting rid of the tab will do ;)
[00:42] <ScottK> DarkwingDuck: Thanks.
[00:42] <DarkwingDuck> ScottK: anytime
[00:42] <ScottK> apachelogger: So we can change digikam/kipi without affecting docs.
[00:42] <apachelogger> DarkwingDuck: also, I am getting the old fugly kubuntu icon in KHC
[00:43] <apachelogger> ScottK: that you should ask DarkwingDuck
[00:43] <apachelogger> DarkwingDuck: I suppose you mostly just refer to the digikam documentation?
[00:43] <ScottK> apachelogger: I did.
[00:44] <apachelogger> and the answer was?
[00:44] <apachelogger> ah
[00:44] <DarkwingDuck> apachelogger, ScottK. Here is what we have currently for that... /usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/kubuntu/photos/index.html
[00:44] <apachelogger> ScottK: yeah, then it shouldnt be a problem, we dont change any strings, so regression potential is rather low there
[00:45] <apachelogger> DarkwingDuck: btw, you should really make sure that it works best in KHC
[00:45] <apachelogger> regular folks will not manually direct their browser to the documetnation ;)
[00:45] <DarkwingDuck> I know. Quick fix
[00:46] <apachelogger> file:///usr/share/doc/kde/HTML/en/kubuntu/photos/index.html
[00:46] <apachelogger> Sput: ^
[00:46] <apachelogger> it would be very nice if that was clickable and opened the right thingy
[00:46] <imbrandon> apachelogger, actualy is 3.5 in universe yet ?
[00:46] <apachelogger> imbrandon: KDE 3.5?
[00:47] <imbrandon> yes
[00:47] <apachelogger> no
[00:47] <apachelogger> should it?
[00:47] <apachelogger> we ditched it except for kdelibs and some apps
[00:47] <apachelogger> a 3rd party version is maintained in a ppa though
[00:47] <DarkwingDuck> apachelogger: help:/kubuntu/photos/graphics.html#Digikam
[00:47] <imbrandon> well debian did the fix by adding htdig , witch sucks and we can only do it if its in universe
[00:48] <apachelogger> imbrandon: well, KHC is also in KDE 4 ;)
[00:48] <apachelogger> the other solution to fixing it properly would be rewriting the search
[00:48] <imbrandon> my "plan" was to add htdig to the 3.5 , since it should be in universe imho anyhow and remove it for 4+
[00:48] <apachelogger> as I said yesterday ...  KHC is broken by design
[00:48] <imbrandon> but that plan wont work if we have bits of kdebase in mauin
[00:49] <imbrandon> main*
[00:49] <apachelogger> all of kdebase is in main :P
[00:49] <apachelogger> all of core KDE is in main
[00:49] <apachelogger> anyhow
[00:49] <imbrandon> right
[00:49] <apachelogger> imbrandon: you could mail the 3rd party ppa maintainer to fix up his 3.5 stuff, and for our 4.4 hide the search tab
[00:49] <imbrandon> okies then i guess it will just be a divergence form debian then, not a big loss or delta anyhow
[00:49] <apachelogger> because even with htdiag it fails in 7/10 tries last I checked
[00:50] <imbrandon> yea, because of dash
[00:50] <apachelogger> sure?
[00:50] <imbrandon> you need to add htdig plus un-bash a script or two
[00:50] <imbrandon> yea
[00:50]  * apachelogger seems to remember that he ditched all the bashishm some time ago
[00:50] <DarkwingDuck> apachelogger: I'm not seeing the kubuntu logo anywhere... just the KDE one.
[00:50] <apachelogger> maybe someone keeps re-adding bashishm ^^
[00:51] <imbrandon> its from a generated perl script that calls /bin/sh and assumes bash that htdig uses to make indexes
[00:51] <DarkwingDuck> apachelogger: NM I see it now
[00:51] <apachelogger> http://imagebin.ca/view/ddzcdiF5.html
[00:51] <imbrandon> big mess imho
[00:51] <apachelogger> I told you so
[00:51] <apachelogger> imbrandon: just dont invest too much time into it
[00:51] <imbrandon> 3rd party maintainer ? sooo ..... whats the state of 3.5 now ?
[00:51] <apachelogger> KHC is going to be replaced sooner o rlater
[00:52] <imbrandon> apachelogger, i'm not, its an easy fix to get rid of it, just wanna make sure i'm doing it "right"
[00:52] <imbrandon> apachelogger, like seriously 10 min of packing once i have the "plan" if that
[00:52] <DarkwingDuck> apachelogger: what are we going to replace it with? and can we write in support for Mallard?
[00:54] <apachelogger> imbrandon: I dont quite know all about 3.5. But AFAIK it is like this: first kb9vqf started redoing the old KDE 3 packages, then we helped him to make it less conflicting with our KDE 4 packages, so I thik for both 9.04 and 9.10 he did KDE 3 remixes, meanwhile I think he officially forked KDE 3.5 and maintains it under new name
[00:54] <apachelogger> DarkwingDuck: what is mallard?
[00:54] <imbrandon> apachelogger, litterly if i rename the khelpcenter/searchhandlers to like khelpcenter/searchhandlers_disabled everything should just *work* as we want, i was just gonna be hard on myself and do it diffrent for 3.5 too , but that "fix" will disable the search tab in 3.5 and 4+
[00:54] <apachelogger> DarkwingDuck: we will replace it with new fanch KHC
[00:54] <apachelogger> I just dont know how and when
[00:54] <apachelogger> the topic is insanely complex
[00:54] <maco> mallard is gnome's help file stuff
[00:55] <DarkwingDuck> Mallard is a doc standard that is instead of using docbook
[00:55] <apachelogger> and the fact that there are 4 diferent types of documentation files doesnt help
[00:55] <apachelogger> DarkwingDuck: should I ever come up with a software design that can cope with all the shiz that is out in linux documentation land, then we sure can integrate mallard support ;)
[00:56] <DarkwingDuck> apachelogger: the reason I'm asking is we are setting up a plan to one day convert kubuntu-docs to mallard
[00:56] <imbrandon> err s/disable/hide
[00:56] <apachelogger> imbrandon: well, as said 3.5 technically does not exist anymore and certainly not our maintenance obligiation == just bonus
[00:56] <imbrandon> apachelogger, rockin, thats what i wanted to hear
[00:57] <DarkwingDuck> It's more topic oriented.
[00:57] <apachelogger> DarkwingDuck: that can easily be done with a mallard2html converter even now ;)
[00:57]  * apachelogger finds the html approach rather sane actually
[00:57] <imbrandon> ScottK, i ran into a strange grub problem with 10.04 on the netwooks ( but to be fair its not kubuntu specific, unr has it too  )
[00:58] <imbrandon> netbooks*
[00:58] <imbrandon> wow if i could type today
[00:58] <apachelogger> my current concept involves an abstract backend layer to which you can attach various engines that will parse the various markup syles on-the-fly to html
[00:58] <DarkwingDuck> apachelogger: ahhh, sweet
[00:58] <imbrandon> apachelogger, i would love to help with some code on that, sounds intresting ( not s joke. seriously )
[00:59] <apachelogger> the other approach would be insanly more complex, but might be sweeter -> as far as the various markups allow youd parse it and then build a Qt UI on the fly
[00:59] <apachelogger> that might actually be possible via that new UI magic in Qt 4.7
[01:00] <apachelogger> but really insanely complex
[01:00] <apachelogger> imbrandon: cool :)
[01:00] <DarkwingDuck> apachelogger: then what are you waiting for? :P:P
[01:00] <imbrandon> apachelogger, why not pasre it then output xml, then you could do both, xlst for the html and xml-->uidesigner for the other
[01:01] <apachelogger> imbrandon: I think the current solution parses to xml anyway, so one could heavily reuse that
[01:01] <imbrandon> :)
[01:01] <apachelogger> also docbook is xml derived anyway
[01:01] <apachelogger> kubotu: google gnome mallard
[01:01] <kubotu> Results for gnome mallard: 1. ProjectMallard - GNOME Live!: http://live.gnome.org/ProjectMallard | 2. Yelp/Icons - GNOME Live!: http://live.gnome.org/Yelp/Icons | 3. Project Mallard: Rethinking Help: http://people.gnome.org/~shaunm/quack/mallard.xml
[01:02] <apachelogger> mallard is also xml
[01:02] <imbrandon> see , we stand on the shoulders ...
[01:03] <imbrandon> nice thing about xlst is it would be fast to build etc, then work on the ui stuff as you go along ( point releases ? )
[01:04]  * apachelogger nods
[01:05] <imbrandon> either way, we would need a better search index than htdig
[01:05] <imbrandon> lol
[01:05] <imbrandon> there isnt something built into qt for indexing ?
[01:06] <apachelogger> not that I know of
[01:06] <imbrandon> i'll be glad when the help files dont have to be local, online only would be awesom , but i know that day is not as close as i would like
[01:06] <apachelogger> imbrandon: I was thinking about using nepomuk + strigi
[01:07] <apachelogger> in fact strigi can already index docbook IIRC, so we would just need to build a collection using those two thingies (the media player bagarang can be a role model for that)
[01:07] <imbrandon> nice
[01:07] <jjesse> apachelogger: where's the game of uno?
[01:08] <imbrandon> uht oh
[01:08] <apachelogger> jjesse: all uno'd out already :)
[01:08] <jjesse> do'h
[01:08] <imbrandon> wow it feels like i have been away from kde FOREVER
[01:08] <apachelogger> unless you find enough people to do another round ;)
[01:08] <jjesse> imbrandon you have been :)
[01:08] <imbrandon> remind me never to do that again , LOL
[01:09]  * apachelogger giggles
[01:09] <imbrandon> apachelogger, no that actualy sounds sound, but we should definately start it sometime after release, for real
[01:09] <apachelogger> it only feels like yesterday that I was trying to prevent dolphin from crashing in some very early KDE trunk build of what would become KDE 4 ^^
[01:09] <imbrandon> apachelogger, exactly
[01:09] <txwikinger> apachelogger: I wrote a comment. I hope it as an optimal confusion factor
[01:10] <apachelogger> well, actually it feels more like last century :D
[01:10] <apachelogger> so many things happened
[01:10] <apachelogger> incredible
[01:10] <apachelogger> txwikinger: yeah, I saw, thanks :)
[01:10] <imbrandon> apachelogger, its actauly been since the last LTS, i was kinda disapointed in the kde4 state at that time , so i started using gnome, now i got a ton of catching up to do
[01:10] <apachelogger> imbrandon: re starting ASAP - that entirely depends on whether I get a gsoc slot for ubuntu one kde
[01:11] <imbrandon> apachelogger, ahh
[01:11]  * txwikinger wonders why he pays for cable TV when he gets everything he watches for free on the Internet and it is even legal to do so
[01:12] <apachelogger> imbrandon: we could defenitely draw up some design and stuff though and go upstream with that
[01:12] <imbrandon> txwikinger, lol i thought the same thing yesterday, i only watch 2 shows, and really could carer less about them , caprica and stargate universe , and they both are online the day of air legal
[01:12] <apachelogger> I suppose other distros would ditch resources in
[01:12] <apachelogger> its not like only our doc dudes and I are annoyed by the crappyness of KHC ^^
[01:13] <imbrandon> apachelogger, yea thats more of what i ment, not nessesarly diving into code right away, more of start the "real" planning for it then
[01:13] <imbrandon> ugh apt-mirror sorely needs some love this week too
[01:14] <imbrandon> wow
[01:14] <apachelogger> we really dont want to dive in ^^
[01:14] <apachelogger> I suspect that is how KHC came into existance
[01:14] <apachelogger> Really bad idea.
[01:14] <imbrandon> i really wish i had the time to rewrite apt-mirror in python
[01:15] <imbrandon> apachelogger, yea, well maybe not existance, but it dosent look thought out over a long peroid
[01:15] <imbrandon> more like patch on patch on patch on bandaid on patch
[01:15] <apachelogger> though it is rather powerful under the hood
[01:15] <apachelogger> theoretically
[01:15] <apachelogger> It just completely fails to embrace that.
[01:15] <imbrandon> :)
[01:16] <imbrandon> where is khc in 4 ?
[01:16] <imbrandon> -workspace dosent seem right
[01:17] <apachelogger> imbrandon: runtime
[01:17] <imbrandon> ahhh yea much better
[01:18] <imbrandon> mmm mt dew with real sugar /me is in love
[01:19] <jjesse> its the greatest sn't it?
[01:19] <imbrandon> definately
[01:20] <imbrandon> whats our timeline look like , i dont wanna be uploading bugfixes toooo late
[01:20] <imbrandon> ( for main )
[01:23] <imbrandon> new kernel, time to reboot brb
[02:10] <DarkwingDuck> txwikinger: where do you go for the TV online?
[02:10] <txwikinger> ctv.ca for instance
[02:11] <imbrandon> ScottK: where is the kcm module you mentioned ? i'm not seeing it after a cursory look
[02:11] <imbrandon> ( i've installed kubuntu-netbook on a full blown install )
[02:26] <ScottK> imbrandon: It's in Look and Feel -> Desktop the last item.  If you don't have both plasma-netbook and plasma-desktop installed it won't give you any choices.
[02:26] <imbrandon> k
[02:29] <imbrandon> hrm i have both installed, maybe i need to restart kde
[02:32] <imbrandon> ahh got it
[02:32] <imbrandon> i think i'm bit by the overlap bug though
[02:32] <imbrandon> lol
[02:33] <imbrandon> leaste with the clock
[02:38] <ScottK> That's it.
[02:38] <ScottK> You could test debfx's patch.
[02:38] <ScottK> That'd be good.
[02:39] <imbrandon> sure, where is the bug/patch ?
[02:40] <imbrandon> apachelogger: i am pretty sure i have the khelp search disabled, just rebuilt kdebase-runtime and gonna test it on my desktop first
[02:41] <ScottK> imbrandon: Bug #540324
[02:41] <imbrandon> kk, yup thats what i'm bit by
[02:42] <imbrandon> looks strange
[02:42] <imbrandon> lol
[02:42] <jjesse> me too
[02:52] <ScottK> Hopefully debfx saved the day again.
[03:07] <imbrandon> hrm
[03:07] <imbrandon> no accept or reject email
[03:07] <imbrandon> i wonder if i still have main permissions , lol
[03:08] <jjesse> imbrandon how long did you take off :)
[03:08] <imbrandon> well i havent uplaoded anything to main in about a year
[03:08] <imbrandon> but i havent been gone that long
[03:08] <imbrandon> :)
[03:09] <ScottK> imbrandon: It didn't look to me like you do.
[03:09] <imbrandon> ScottK: can you poke arround and see if my upload of kdebase-runtime is not silently failing somewhere i'm unaware of
[03:09] <ScottK> Maybe I missed it when I looked.
[03:10] <imbrandon> hrm, that sucks, i'll have to get that fixed, ok mind grabbing the bzr branch and sponsoring this upload for me please ?
[03:10] <ScottK> OK.  persia can probably point you in the right direction on that.
[03:11]  * ScottK has a few things in the queue first, then if he hasn't passed out ....
[03:11] <imbrandon> no worries, i can grab a sponsor i'm sure no problems if your backlog looks full for the night
[03:11] <ScottK> It's probably OK, just I may run out of steam.
[03:12] <imbrandon> persia: ping ( re: kubuntu privs ) when you have a moment
[03:12] <ScottK> If you could test out the overlap fix, that'd help.
[03:12] <imbrandon> yup yup, doing that now, it was next on the list
[03:12] <ScottK> imbrandon: Actually you want core-dev back, right?
[03:12] <imbrandon> ScottK: yes, iirc i still had it
[03:12] <imbrandon> :)
[03:12] <imbrandon> or so i thought
[03:12] <ScottK> yeah, not according to Launchpad.
[03:13] <imbrandon> mustive expired when i wasent looking, probably will need to talk to the TB again
[03:13] <imbrandon> oh well not something i can fix at this second, i'll take a look at the overlap fix and then worry about it
[03:15] <imbrandon> does core-dev still go through the TB , or has that also changed a bit, i know they was talking about deligating a bit of it, just not sure what bits
[03:15] <ScottK> imbrandon: We have Developer Membership Board now that does it.
[03:15] <ScottK> persia is on the DMB.
[03:16] <imbrandon> ahh cool, ok, rockin , ok onto bug # 540324
[03:16] <ScottK> Thanks.
[03:17] <imbrandon> felix=debfx ? ( just makin sure )
[03:18] <ScottK> yes
[03:18] <imbrandon> k
[03:20] <imbrandon> i need to move my blog to its new linode tonight sometime too, fun fun
[03:20] <imbrandon> gonna be up all night again ;)
[03:25] <imbrandon> k building with patch now, will test when done , for now, time to find a snack
[03:26] <imbrandon> ahh yea got the reject email
[03:26] <imbrandon> no main privs
[03:26] <imbrandon> fooooooooood
[03:39] <persia> imbrandon: Looking at the precedent (predating my membership on the DMB), it appears that the process is to mail developer-membership-board@lists.ubuntu.com with a statement of the reasons you stepped down, and your intentions for the future.
[03:40] <imbrandon> ok persia thanks, will do that here in a few minutes :)
[03:41] <persia> imbrandon: The next meeting is at 15:00 13th April.  There's a request at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DeveloperMembershipBoard/ApplicationProcess for a week to pass: I'm unsure if that applies for reactivations: be aware that it might be on the 13th and it might be on the 27th that your application is considered.
[03:42] <imbrandon> ahh ok, i thought reapplications were mail only like motu, thanks
[03:44] <ScottK> imbrandon: MOTU apps are done "in person" at the meetings too.
[03:44] <imbrandon> ...
[03:45] <imbrandon> mine was email only to renew motu
[03:45] <imbrandon> hrm
[03:45] <imbrandon> no worries thgouh, its easy enough when i'm always on irc anyhow :)
[03:46] <imbrandon> been a long time since i had to do any of this stuff anyhow, will do me good to refresh my memory
[03:47] <persia> It's not your memory: the processes changed :)
[03:48] <imbrandon> leaste its not as bad as when i got core-dev to begin with,  awnsering questions from sabdfl in the TB meeting was a lesson in calming ones nerves ;)
[03:49] <JontheEchidna> at least you didn't break the tech board ;)
[03:49] <imbrandon> lol
[03:49] <jjesse> JontheEchidna did you?
[03:50] <JontheEchidna> My still-pending application invoked much confusion on whether or not abstaining meant lowering the total number of people voting or not
[03:51] <imbrandon> i was so nervious durring the meeting i dident sleep for 24 hours before more than 10 min at a time, much has changed since then :)
[03:51] <jjesse> JontheEchidna:  ??? people are abstaining on your vote?
[03:52] <JontheEchidna> jjesse: well, with good reason, for the most part
[03:52] <jjesse> oh ok
[03:55] <imbrandon> uht ohh , who let nixternal in
[03:55] <kb9vqf> apachelogger: That is exactly correct (the new name is Trinity at http://trinity.pearsoncomputing.net)  Also, Lucid packages are coming up shortly
[03:57] <nixternal> some idiot obviously
[03:57] <imbrandon> :)
[03:59] <imbrandon> kb9vqf: looks like a handfull
[04:00] <kb9vqf> imbrandon: It sure is :P
[04:00] <kb9vqf> But it sure beats the alternatives...
[04:01]  * kb9vqf is probably the only one who hates Windows/Mac interfaces with a passion
[04:01] <imbrandon> :)
[04:03] <imbrandon> not that i care at all but why setup all the infrastructure youre self ( like bugzilla ) why not use launchpad ?
[04:03] <imbrandon> just curious
[04:05] <ScottK> jjesse: Part of the reason nm-applet just works with NM is that it's developed by the same people that develop NM in conjunction with it.  KNM, OTOH, is developed seperately, so it's harder to keep in sync.
[04:05] <ScottK> (your blog requires a login to comment, so you get IRC comments)
[04:05] <jjesse> ScottK: i'll add them to the comments
[04:06] <ScottK> jjesse: Also, except for the lack of hidden network support, it's worked pretty well for me in Karmic and Lucid both.
[04:06] <imbrandon> woot build finished, time to test on the laptop
[04:06] <jjesse> i seem to have some form or issue that i need to figure out to get working correctly every release
[04:06] <jjesse> i try really hard
[04:07] <ScottK> Heya nixternal.  How goes recovery from the flood?
[04:07] <ScottK> nixternal: BTW, we have working powerpc live CD images.  Tm_T tested them for me during your hiatus.
[04:07] <nixternal> i have 2 out of 8 computers, 3..keep forgetting about the netbook
[04:07] <nixternal> flood didn't damage them, a roof fell on them and smashed them
[04:08] <JontheEchidna> :s
[04:08] <nixternal> i have not one single computer i can do any type of dev work on...no power
[04:08] <nixternal> and insurance is being a pita
[04:08] <imbrandon> ouch
[04:09] <kb9vqf> imbrandon: Mainly, I'm used to those particular software packages.  I also like to keep services completely or mostly under my control when possible; that way there's one less variable to worry about
[04:09] <nixternal> so...i think i am probably done doing dev work for a while
[04:09] <nixternal> what money i do have i am using for bike racing, and that isn't much money at all
[04:09] <kb9vqf> Launchpad is great though; I really like the PPA feature (when it's not bogged down of course ;))
[04:09] <nixternal> i get more benefit out of racing than I do wasting a ton of time here
[04:10] <imbrandon> nice i insert a usb disk and it gets named .....  ?PNG!>
[04:24]  * ScottK hopes the sudden silence isn't a bad sign for imbrandon's testing.
[04:24] <imbrandon> hehe nope, just installing ti now
[04:24] <imbrandon> dident wanna build on the laptop , tooo slow, so i sneekernet'd it via usb and its installing now
[04:25] <imbrandon> gonna reboot/test in about ~30 sec
[04:25] <nixternal> ScottK: my solid oak desk, saved the PPC and this server
[04:25] <nixternal> Host '3LockBox', running Linux 2.6.31-21-generic - Cpu0: AMD Athlon 1000 MHz; Up: 36 min; Users: 3; Load: 0.67; Free: [Mem: 468/935 Mio] [Swap: 863/863 Mio] [/: 10764/14084 Mio] [/boot: 55/122 Mio] [/media/maxtor: 137358/150230 Mio] [/home: 33689/41301 Mio]; Vpenis: 96.6 cm;
[04:26] <nixternal> woohoo, 1 GHz athlon, the most power system I have right now :(
[04:26] <imbrandon> ouch
[04:26] <imbrandon> i'd say move to kc but umm we have those damnd things too
[04:26] <imbrandon> lol
[04:27] <nixternal> so, whoever steps up and takes over building docs with translations, that's gonne be fun, as I doubt I will have the power to do it in a week or so
[04:27]  * nixternal is broke too which makes it worse
[04:27] <imbrandon> i can do some of that if needed, you'll just have to let me know where ya was with everything
[04:28] <nixternal> just waiting for translations to get a bit better, then download them all, work it into the build setup somehow and rock-and-roll
[04:28] <imbrandon> k
[04:28] <imbrandon> i'll poke it later this week some and then poke you if i have issues
[04:29] <imbrandon> this box should build stuff fairly quick, dual quad core w/8gb ram
[04:29] <nixternal> 2 weeks
[04:29] <nixternal> the day before final freeze
[04:29] <txwikinger> nixternal: flood?
[04:29] <nixternal> txwikinger: tornado
[04:29] <nixternal> or microburst
[04:29] <txwikinger> oh my
[04:29] <nixternal> the weather people are to stupid to say which it was
[04:30] <nixternal> hey, i was on tv one day getting interviewed by every news station in chicago wearing an ubuntu t-shirt :)
[04:30] <nixternal> the second day, openSUSE t-shirt :)
[04:30] <imbrandon> ScottK: everything looking good so far, still pokin a bit more to make sure
[04:30] <ScottK> OK.  Good to know.
[04:30] <ScottK> Trying to find room on my hard drive for -runtime now.
[04:30] <txwikinger> nixternal: You should have asked for some consulting fee for the interview ;P
[04:30] <imbrandon> heh
[04:30] <imbrandon> the diff is small, like 40 or 50kb
[04:30] <imbrandon> iirc
[04:30] <txwikinger> eep openSuse... lot's of mono I guess
[04:31] <nixternal> a friend of mine just started his own construction company, so i am thinking of leaving this whole insane computer world for something different....job market blows ass in chicago and i don't feel like moving or traveling 8 out of 7 days a week
[04:32] <imbrandon> nixternal: you can franchise my store and open one in chi ;)
[04:32] <txwikinger> construction? Does not seem to be the right industry for the future either
[04:32] <nixternal> works for me...what is the store?
[04:32] <nixternal> probably a head shop or sex toy shop
[04:32] <imbrandon> computer thift shop ( .com )
[04:32] <nixternal> dot com!!!!
[04:32] <txwikinger> nixternal: You should move into Healthcare ;p
[04:32] <imbrandon> recycled systems and closeout buys ;)
[04:32] <nixternal> sorry, don't want to work for the government
[04:33] <txwikinger> computer theft shop?
[04:33] <ScottK> nixternal: I have a cousin who was a EE in silicon valley and then gave it up to work as an independent handyman type contractor.
[04:33] <nixternal> i just found out that i live by one of those places
[04:33] <imbrandon> thrift*
[04:33] <ScottK> He enjoyed it for a few years and then got tired of being poor and went back.
[04:33] <nixternal> i went in to check it out as i rode past it on my bike...that guy has shit from the 80s in there
[04:33] <imbrandon> lol
[04:33] <nixternal> OS/2
[04:33] <txwikinger> imbrandon: I thought that is called eBay
[04:33] <nixternal> wtf is going to buy OS/2?
[04:33] <imbrandon> os/2 is still used by alot of atm's
[04:34] <imbrandon> esp at BoA
[04:34] <nixternal> my bank's atms use aix
[04:34] <nixternal> v6
[04:34] <txwikinger> the ones that use windows are down all the time
[04:34] <txwikinger> blue screen!
[04:35] <nixternal> dude, i went to the atm 2 days ago, at some bank in southern illinois, and it was a BSOD
[04:35] <nixternal> the words were all garbled but it was an actual BSOD
[04:35] <imbrandon> pics ?
[04:36] <imbrandon> txwikinger: yes ebay helps alot, but i gear more twords business that let me come in and recycle 200 to 500 machines ata  time, its expensive for them to get rid of
[04:36] <imbrandon> i help with that expense ( and make a bit o cash at the same time )
[04:38] <txwikinger> nixternal: What about the Blackhawks?
[04:38] <imbrandon> that and i buy closeouts from manufatures, like the apple bid list, all their refurbs go onto a "bid list" that you can buy pallets at a time of ( but not less )
[04:40] <nixternal> txwikinger: they are the best NHL team evah! damn, Celeste isn't here for me to rip on her Pens
[04:40] <nixternal> but the Capitals are hot this year
[04:40] <nixternal> imbrandon: I didn't have my cam on me, I was just wearing my underwear actually when I was getting money :)
[04:41] <imbrandon> tmi
[04:41] <imbrandon> lol
[04:41] <nixternal> it was a couple of hours before our ride, so i chucked on my bike undies and went out in those
[04:41] <imbrandon> ScottK: looks good, i cant seem to break the patch
[04:41] <imbrandon> gonna push it to bzr
[04:41] <nixternal> right now I am trying to find pics of me in yesterday's race and today's time trials...I even shaved my legs and have yet to find a picture of me
[04:41] <ScottK> imbrandon: Great.  Please do.  I'll take that after I get done with runtime.
[04:41] <imbrandon> kk
[04:42] <txwikinger> nixternal: You really believe you are faster :D
[04:42] <imbrandon> nixternal: lol, i cant imagin you with shaved anything ( nor do i wanna )
[04:44] <nixternal> shaved legs aren't for going faster...they are for when you fall the big ass band aides don't stick to your fur...."PULL FAST!!!"   1.....2......OMG OWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!!!!!!!!!
[04:44] <txwikinger> nixternal: I ride with my bicycle to work at least once a week
[04:45] <nixternal> wish i could say that
[04:46] <txwikinger> nixternal: well I am eslf-employed
[04:46] <txwikinger> self*
[04:46] <ScottK> nixternal: I remember doing the "pull fast" thing with some of the athletic zinc oxide tape (the white stuff) in high school.  It took some of the guy's skin with it when it came off.
[04:46] <txwikinger> but I think I will fire myself soon... Far too lazy and feisty employee I am
[04:49] <imbrandon> ScottK: workspace is pushed when you have time, btw thanks for the uploads
[04:50] <ScottK> imbrandon: OK.  Great.  Just about to have a look while -runtime test builds.
[04:50] <nixternal> ScottK: I shaved my legs in high school too, because we always taped our ankles for football and hockey...easier to remove the tape after practice or a game with no fur
[04:50]  * ScottK thinks about nixternal with no fur and goes to wash his eyes.
[04:51] <imbrandon> lol
[04:52] <nixternal> liar
[04:52] <nixternal> you know that is hawt!
[04:53] <nixternal> the best thing about me losing my guest house, i live with mom and dad now in my old bedroom actually, and mom's cooking is better than mine! :)
[04:53]  * ScottK looks for the soap with moar cleaning power
[04:53] <nixternal> i got home from the bike races today, and she made a huge pot of jumbilya....mmm mmm good!
[04:53] <txwikinger> ScottK: I think you need industrial strength cleaner
[04:53] <ScottK> Yeah
[04:57] <JontheEchidna> \o/ https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/devel-permissions/2010-April/000034.html
[04:58] <nixternal> http://www.flickr.com/photos/nixternal/4314711628/  <- see, no hair on my chest or arms, just my under my lip, that pic isn't me naked, just me gonna whip someones ass, all chicago gangsta
[04:58] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Congratulations.
[04:59] <nixternal> JontheEchidna: about damn time ;p
[04:59]  * ScottK is pretty sure "Chicago Gangsta Style" does not traditionally include going hairless.
[04:59] <JontheEchidna> :P
[04:59] <nixternal> blame it on persia :D
[04:59] <ScottK> Actually it's thanks to him it got done.
[04:59] <nixternal> though i haven't been able to check email in a week or so
[05:00] <ScottK> Blame it on Chicago weather.
[05:00] <nixternal> so i have no idea what is going on
[05:00] <nixternal> I just read my cycling email, and did a "Mark All As Read" for everything else :0
[05:00] <nixternal> err, :)
[05:00] <imbrandon> JontheEchidna: gratz
[05:00] <rgreening> gratz
[05:01] <JontheEchidna> thanks :)
[05:01] <JontheEchidna> ScottK, apachelogger, Riddell: thanks for all the packaging sponsors :)
[05:01] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: You're welcome.  Get to work.
[05:01] <JontheEchidna> :D
[05:02] <JontheEchidna> I'm afraid I must misplace my priorities, and get back to work on this literary analysis of George Orwell...
[05:02]  * nixternal -> bed
[05:02] <nixternal> g'nite
[05:02] <JontheEchidna> g'nite
[05:02] <imbrandon> night
[05:04] <imbrandon> hum we dont have a better name than "page one" on the knr ?
[05:05] <ScottK> It was "Newspaper" before.
[05:05] <imbrandon> hrm
[05:05] <DarkwingDuck> woah, nixternal is back?
[05:05] <imbrandon> seems to be "page one" on my install
[05:05] <ScottK> DarkwingDuck: ^^^^ Does that appear in any docs screen shots.
[05:06] <ScottK> imbrandon: I mean before as in for our Karmic tech preview version.
[05:06] <imbrandon> ahh
[05:06] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: Do you have anything for -workspace while I have it open?
[05:06] <imbrandon> knowledgebase just seems to spin and spin too, and do nothing
[05:06] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: nope
[05:07] <ScottK> I didn't play with that one yet.
[05:07] <DarkwingDuck> ScottK: Does "Page One" appear? I don't think so. I don't think I changed it back
[05:07] <DarkwingDuck> Hang on, let me check.
[05:08]  * txwikinger forgot to tease nixternal about the Gold in Hockey :)
[05:08] <ScottK> DarkwingDuck: Are there screen shots of the newspaper and what does it say at the top?
[05:08]  * nixternal kicks txwikinger in the shins
[05:08] <nixternal> i still have a netbook!
[05:08] <txwikinger> rofl
[05:08] <nixternal> I can lay in bed and see you
[05:08] <DarkwingDuck> ScottK: It is called the Newspaper. No screen shots but, it is called Newspaper
[05:08] <ScottK> OK.
[05:08] <nixternal> hrmm, that kind of sounded perverted
[05:08] <ScottK> nixternal: No more than usual from you.
[05:08] <nixternal> true
[05:09]  * ScottK notes the Scotch glass is empty and ponders options.
[05:09] <txwikinger> nixternal: that is due to your shaved legs... they mess with your head
[05:09] <DarkwingDuck> ScottK: were we thinking about changing it?
[05:09]  * persia also blames Chicago weather
[05:10] <nixternal> yeah, that was odd weather that night
[05:10] <txwikinger> persia: Chicago was always a windy city
[05:10] <nixternal> didn't think anything severe like that would happen
[05:10] <nixternal> 2 years ago we watched the tornado come down behind the house and damage all of the industrial area
[05:11] <nixternal> this time it didn't mess with that industrial area, just our hood
[05:11] <txwikinger> Isn't it a little early in the year for tornados?
[05:11] <nixternal> i have lived here all my life, and the last 2 years have been horrible, this will be the third year, and yes, it is starting off a bit early
[05:12] <nixternal> usually may, june, and either the end of september or the beginning of october are severe weather months
[05:12] <DarkwingDuck> Ok, I'm off to bed. Have to work early. nixternal good to see you back. I have a list to bounce off you. :D
[05:12] <txwikinger> we still have freezing at night
[05:12] <nixternal> though 2009/2010 proved those global warming whack jobs can't manipulate data worth a shit
[05:13] <nixternal> actually, chicago has been colder the past 10 years than in years prior...which is exactly what happens prior to the next ice age, we get colder, the caps melt, and then all hell freezes over and creates new land in north america
[05:14] <persia> What?  Why new land?
[05:14] <ScottK> JontheEchidna and imbrandon: -runtime uploaded.
[05:14] <imbrandon> thanks
[05:14] <txwikinger> nixternal: anything that looks like a hockey stick should be looked at with sdome doubt
[05:14] <nixternal> persia: well, same land, different shape :)
[05:15] <persia> Oh, yeah.  Scrape off all that nasty biosphere stuff.
[05:15] <nixternal> better yet, different terrain
[05:15] <nixternal> heh, i would hate to be at the end of the glacier that clean chicago out
[05:15] <txwikinger> nixternal: Actually the arctic ice grew this winter to levels as high as more than 10 years ago
[05:16] <txwikinger> poor polar bears have now too many places to go and have the torture of choosing
[05:16] <imbrandon> 12,21,2012
[05:17] <txwikinger> imbrandon: yeah.. everybody has to reset their clocks to 0 and everything starts from scratch
[05:17] <imbrandon> :)
[05:17] <nixternal> yeah, my dad is deciding to celebrate his birthday on 12/20/2012, since 12/22/2012 won't be a good date :D
[05:17] <imbrandon> i almost reset my gpg key to expire then, just to be funny
[05:18] <ScottK> nixternal: Nice.  My birthday's the 28th.  I'll have to do that too.
[05:18] <imbrandon> nixternal: hah my is 12/19/2012 :)
[05:18] <txwikinger> sounds like another Y2k event to me
[05:18] <EagleScreen> hello
[05:18] <nixternal> old farts are born in december
[05:18] <imbrandon> lol
[05:18] <nixternal> hawt sexy young bucks like me are born in July
[05:18] <imbrandon> hello EagleScreen
[05:19] <EagleScreen> aren't you worried by KDE Bug 221637?
[05:20] <txwikinger> oh.. they demolished Texas Stadium today
[05:20] <nixternal> hey, at least it suspends
[05:20] <nixternal> I don't get paid to worry
[05:21]  * txwikinger would say a German riddel now
[05:21] <ScottK> EagleScreen: Yes, but no patch, not much we can do.
[05:21] <ScottK> BTW, I've seen that in our packages too.
[05:21] <imbrandon> EagleScreen: sure, but it looks like an upstream problem and without a patch not much for us to do
[05:22] <imbrandon> err yea what ScottK said
[05:22] <EagleScreen> i se..
[05:22] <ScottK> Maybe debfx can look at it.  He's been doing great so far.
[05:22] <imbrandon> you might try #kde BUT just asking about it wont help much either unless you have a fix ;P
[05:22] <EagleScreen> yes I know..
[05:23] <imbrandon> no worries was just kinda letting ya know, not trying to mean any disrespect ;)
[05:23] <imbrandon> brb i need more caffeen
[05:23] <ScottK> EagleScreen: I subscribed to the bug, so if something comes up, I can try to get it in.
[05:24] <txwikinger> imbrandon: too late for koffein
[05:24] <EagleScreen> well done ScottK, thanks
[05:24] <txwikinger> caffeine or whatever
[05:24] <imbrandon> txwikinger: nah this is about half way through my dumb sleep cycle, i need to get back on a normal schedule for my timezone soonish
[05:24] <imbrandon> i'll be up another 4 or 5 hours
[05:25] <nixternal> http://twitgoo.com/nwdvl  <- love that pic right there
[05:25] <nixternal> he is one of my team mates...that is nasty ass road rash from a crash today
[05:25] <EagleScreen> this bug is very annoying for me, I think it can be related to the countdown timer to suspend
[05:26] <txwikinger> nixternal: I thought you are faster without crashing
[05:26] <imbrandon> yea , EagleScreen i was actualy thinking it could have been related to that bug that suspends at 25%
[05:26] <imbrandon> low versus critical
[05:26] <imbrandon> just a thought though
[05:27] <nixternal> there is a work around for that bug though
[05:27] <nixternal> DON'T SUSPEND!
[05:27] <imbrandon> lol
[05:27] <txwikinger> nixternal: tell that to Larry King :p
[05:27] <nixternal> so because of the work around, it isn't critical or a show stopper
[05:27] <EagleScreen> i know another good workaround
[05:27] <EagleScreen> USE GNOME
[05:27] <nixternal> EagleScreen: windows is better
[05:28] <EagleScreen> yes suere
[05:28] <imbrandon> did that for a year, not much better ;)
[05:28] <EagleScreen> sure*
[05:28] <imbrandon> ( gnome, not windows )
[05:28] <imbrandon> anyhow, my caffeine is waiting on me, brb
[05:29] <nixternal> using GNOME isn't a good work around for anything
[05:29] <nixternal> that is like saying, "Obama is better than Bush"
[05:29] <ScottK> Ooooh!  I think we want this: http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/KDE/kdebase/workspace/powerdevil/daemon/PowerDevilDaemon.cpp?r1=1060282&r2=1060281&pathrev=1060282
[05:29] <nixternal> they both suck ass
[05:29]  * ScottK looks to see if it's backported.
[05:31] <ScottK> OK, we got that one already.
[05:32] <imbrandon> nixternal: gnome was good to me for the year waiting for kde4 to mature
[05:32] <imbrandon> ;)
[05:33] <imbrandon> plus its less of a "change" for me when i task switch from my apple boxen
[05:33] <EagleScreen> great job, ScottK
[05:34] <ScottK> Funny.  Up until about a month ago my main desktop was still runnin Kubuntu Dapper with 3.5.6.
[05:34] <nixternal> didn't read that report, but does that effect everyone who suspends?
[05:34] <EagleScreen> I think everyone who autosuspend, by idle time or by low battery
[05:34] <nixternal> I just suspended the dell mini 10v...though this thing is so damn slow it could have suspended twice and I wouldn't have known the difference
[05:35] <imbrandon> ScottK: yea i cant do that, i like shiney to much
[05:35] <nixternal> ahhhh
[05:35] <imbrandon> even if shiney == a new bugfix only release
[05:35] <imbrandon> lol
[05:35] <ScottK> Well I had my laptop for that.
[05:36] <imbrandon> yea the only thing i tend to keep on lts releases are my servers that arent VPS's
[05:36] <imbrandon> and even then, DAPPER ?
[05:36] <imbrandon> heh
[05:38] <EagleScreen> ScottK: if that commit fix the bug, then is it fixed yet in 4.5?
[05:38] <imbrandon> actualy had to update one physical box to karmic from hardy a few weeks ago
[05:38] <imbrandon> i wasent happy
[05:38] <ScottK> EagleScreen: That's in 4.4 also, so that's not it.
[05:38] <txwikinger> nixternal: communism is a workaround for freedom :)
[05:38] <imbrandon> s/freedom/capitolisim
[05:39] <imbrandon> dictatorship is a workarround for freedom ;)
[05:39] <nixternal> we live in the US, no such thing as freedom
[05:39] <txwikinger> imbrandon: communism is a form of dictatorship
[05:39] <imbrandon> dosent have to be
[05:39] <nixternal> all forms of government, which means it all sucks...anarchy ftw!
[05:40] <txwikinger> all forms of government are corrupt nixternal
[05:41] <imbrandon> i read somewhere the other day ( yesterday? ) that every democracy in recorded history has only lasted 200 years ( give or take a few decades )
[05:41] <imbrandon> dunno how true it is
[05:41] <txwikinger> imbrandon: ever seen a government that is not corrupt?
[05:42] <imbrandon> athens before they were taken over ?
[05:42] <imbrandon> thats the only one that comes to mind
[05:42] <txwikinger> athens had lots of slaves
[05:42] <txwikinger> most woman were put into protestution
[05:43] <txwikinger> I hardly consider that a proper government
[05:43] <imbrandon> every government will become corrupt once it realizes it can vote its self money from the treasury
[05:43] <imbrandon> txwikinger: almost every govenment had slaves at some point
[05:43] <imbrandon> slavery being "bad" is a relitvely new thing
[05:43] <kb9vqf> except amongst the slaves...
[05:44] <txwikinger> imbrandon: Well. in the Athens government most people were slaves
[05:44] <imbrandon> i'm not saying i disagree, it is bad imho, but i mean historicly
[05:44] <imbrandon> txwikinger: i know
[05:44] <imbrandon> but slavery has little to nothing to do with corruption
[05:45] <txwikinger> Most government's only purpose is to maintain the status quo.. especially if they call themselves progressive
[05:45] <imbrandon> slavery is more of a social and economic issue
[05:45] <txwikinger> and hence it has a lot to do with corruption
[05:46] <txwikinger> slavery is one of the worst form of moral corruption
[05:46] <imbrandon> i guess its all in how you look at it, i tend to keep things very seperated im my mind
[05:46] <imbrandon> moral != govenment corruption
[05:47] <imbrandon> my veiw of government has little to do with morality
[05:47] <imbrandon> infact if it did there would be forced beleifs and such, chruch + state thing
[05:48] <txwikinger> imbrandon: That is a very Nietsche view of the world
[05:48] <txwikinger> which a lot of historians say let to fascism
[05:49] <imbrandon> government to _me_ should only be a protector of the people, physicly , from other governments, nothing more, no more laws, no more morality, nothing, let the free market totaly reign
[05:49] <imbrandon> imho
[05:49] <imbrandon> smaller gov == better imho
[05:49] <txwikinger> well.. that is the libertarian view of government
[05:50] <imbrandon> it is, and i'm not saying i'm 100% or even 50% right, just that government can mean alot of diffrent things to alot of diffrent people ;)
[05:51] <imbrandon> and to say that one is corrpt because of slavry imho is wrong, its not a governmental issue , its a social one
[05:51] <imbrandon> ( even if i opose it )
[05:52] <txwikinger> Well.. it is a governmental issue since the government maintains the status quo
[05:53] <imbrandon> what do you mean? if they dont have the power to NOT maintain the status quo then how could they stop it ?
[05:54] <imbrandon> your thinking like the athens government had the power to abolish slavery as we did in the 1860's in the USA
[05:54] <imbrandon> the athens government did not have that power over the people
[05:55] <txwikinger> Yes it did
[05:55] <imbrandon> so they dident maintain the status quo, they had no reign over it
[05:55] <txwikinger> slavery was the direct consequence of the property lae
[05:55] <txwikinger> law
[05:55] <txwikinger> in Athens
[05:55] <txwikinger> The government had the power to change it
[05:55] <imbrandon> law in athens was made by society, government was only the enforcer
[05:56] <imbrandon> they had a true demcro, every issue was voted on directly by the poepl, NOT by govenment reps
[05:56] <txwikinger> they had no true democracy
[05:56] <imbrandon> and goventment did not have the power to propose new agendas for vote
[05:56] <txwikinger> Only a very small number of people could vote
[05:57] <imbrandon> basicly they were the local police run by the poeple, not a law making government
[05:57] <imbrandon> an free atheniens could vote
[05:57] <imbrandon> any*
[05:57] <ScottK> The notion that breathing is sufficient qualification to vote is a relatively modern invention.
[05:58] <txwikinger> well.. breathing is not enough ScottK :D
[05:58] <imbrandon> hehe
[05:58] <ScottK> For a certain number of years unless you get a felony conviction or ask pretty please to have your voting rights.
[05:58] <ScottK> .. back
[05:59] <txwikinger> imbrandon: yes.. any free Athenian could vote and made sure to keep the status quo i.e. keep the number of free Athenians small
[05:59] <txwikinger> ScottK: sheep breath too, but cannot vote ;D
[06:00] <txwikinger> And I have not been able to vote for the last 15 years or so
[06:00] <imbrandon> in any case no there is no ideal government, only things that are good and bad about each one
[06:01] <imbrandon> you can only do your best to keep what you have evolving into something better
[06:01]  * txwikinger always lives in countries without being a citizen
[06:02] <txwikinger> imbrandon: well as you just stated, in evloves negatively for 200 years and than crashes
[06:02] <imbrandon> actualy the timeline looks a tad diffrent, it evolves great for about 130 years, then starts the downfal
[06:03] <imbrandon> :)
[06:03] <imbrandon> one sec , lemem see if i can dig up that article, you might like to read it
[06:03] <txwikinger> well. if you look at the French revolution.. it turned ugly very fast
[06:04] <imbrandon> q       From bondage to spiritual faith;
[06:04] <imbrandon> q       From spiritual faith to great courage;
[06:04] <imbrandon> q       From courage to liberty;
[06:04] <imbrandon> q       From liberty to abundance;
[06:04] <imbrandon> q       From abundance to complacency;
[06:04] <imbrandon> q       From complacency to apathy;
[06:04] <imbrandon> q       From apathy to dependence;
[06:04] <imbrandon> q       From dependency back into bondage.”
[06:04] <imbrandon> the us is at " apathy to dependence" imho
[06:04] <imbrandon> s/us/US
[06:05] <txwikinger> yeah.. and accelerating
[06:06] <imbrandon> quote "“A democracy is always temporary in nature: it simple cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority will always vote for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to
[06:06] <imbrandon>  loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed by a dictatorship.”
[06:06] <imbrandon> lol
[06:06] <txwikinger> True.. see 1930s and following in Germany
[06:07] <imbrandon> “Downfall of Democracies” Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor who lived in the 1700s is what i was thinking of, cant find the actual book on amazon though
[06:07] <ScottK> Alexis de Tocqueville observed in 1835 in "Democracy in America" that the American form of government would work until the people realized they could vote themselves money.
[06:08] <imbrandon> :)
[06:08] <txwikinger> ScottK: Not really the people, rather the government in order to keep themselves in power
[06:09] <ScottK> txwikinger: I believe that I'm accurately stating what he observed.  If you disagree, it's with him.
[06:09] <txwikinger> ScottK: yes.. that's what I meant..
[06:10]  * txwikinger read Alexis de Tocqueville
[06:11] <imbrandon> its all very intresting, esp since some form of major change will likely happen in my lifetime, i just hope its not a bloody one to be honest, but i know that SOMEHTING will change dirasticly, it has to
[06:11] <txwikinger> more than 50% of the people do not vote because of the apathy created by corrupt governments
[06:12] <txwikinger> imbrandon: the decision if it is bloody or not lies in the hand of the government
[06:12] <txwikinger> See East Germany
[06:14] <imbrandon> i dont beleive that to be 100% true, i could be, i could be wrong, i am but one person, but there are ways without bloodshed to make drastic change even against the current governments wishes
[06:14] <imbrandon> if it happens like that i do not know :) i'm just not quite as jaded about it as you i think
[06:14] <imbrandon> dunno if tyhats gpood or bad
[06:15] <imbrandon> anyhow i think we're all WAY offtopic heheh
[06:16] <txwikinger> imbrandon: well I have lived in a lot of places and made a lot of observations
[06:16] <txwikinger> imbrandon: and yes.. it is late :D
[06:16] <imbrandon> true ;) and i have not, ive studied quite a few ( informaly ) but not observed most first hand
[06:17] <imbrandon> i guess its a good thing we havd a dictator in ubuntu ;)
[06:17] <imbrandon> lol ( bad joke )
[06:18] <txwikinger> well. a benevolent dictator who allows the necessary liberties can be a very effective and moral government
[06:18] <imbrandon> yup but as we have seen over the years not 100% perfect
[06:19] <imbrandon> but it works well for us, in this situation
[06:19] <txwikinger> the question of government in the end is a question of conflict of interest aka. corruption
[06:19]  * kb9vqf thanks imbrandon for the wonderful quotes ;-)
[06:19] <imbrandon> power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely ;)
[06:20]  * ScottK installs debconf-doc and is pretty sure he will regret it.
[06:20] <imbrandon> lol
[06:20] <imbrandon> kb9vqf: your welcome ( i think ) hehe
[06:20] <txwikinger> ScottK: the one feature I really miss in apt is reverse install
[06:27] <imbrandon> nixternal / ScottK / apachelogger : btw feel free to add an endorsement on my wiki if you have time over the next days , not sure if i'll need it for a renewal but it wont hurt ;)
[06:28]  * txwikinger goes to sleep
[06:28] <imbrandon> gnight txwikinger
[06:28] <txwikinger> night imbrandon
[06:38] <ScottK> imbrandon: -workspace finally built.  It's going up now.  Thanks again.
[06:38] <ScottK> Done
[06:38] <imbrandon> np, yea that one is a long build
[06:38] <imbrandon> ;)
[06:41] <ScottK> Thanks again.
[06:41] <ScottK> I think I'm off to bed.
[06:41] <ScottK> Good night.
[06:41] <imbrandon> gnight ScottK
[06:43] <EagleScreen> for 10.10, you could evaluate the usage of synaptiks, replacing kcm_touchpad: http://opendesktop.org/content/show.php?content=114270
[06:52] <Tm_T> well, there's evolution happening in KDE upstream, so I think we should follow whatever happens there
[06:53] <EagleScreen> oh, ofcourse Tm_T
[06:56] <imbrandon> okies i'm off to bed to i think, gnight all
[07:09] <Tm_T> nixternal: we have traditional spring floods here in Finland
[08:26] <larsivi> hi - after X finally starts with the fglrx driver in 10.04, I'm now not able to start composition - glxinfo appear to show a properly installed driver though
[09:18] <Mamarok> larsivi: why don't you use the free driver?
[09:19] <Mamarok> fglrx never worked correctly here with my HD 3650, the Radeon driver does
[09:26] <larsivi> Mamarok: because I wish to use the capabilities of the card if possible
[09:27] <Mamarok> and what makes you think the Radeon drivers doesn't give that? Anyway, this is not a support channel, you should ask all questions related to Lucid in #ubuntu+1
[09:27] <larsivi> Mamarok: the radeon drivers do not give me OGL capabilities from 2.0 and upwards
[09:28] <larsivi> I know what this channel is for, ubuntu+1 never appear to have any kubuntu folks
[09:28] <larsivi> and I have this issue in kde
[09:29] <Mamarok> larsivi: by OGL you mean OpenGL, aka 3D? It works out of the box here with the Radeon driver
[09:29] <Mamarok> all compositing effects available in KWin work with it
[09:30] <larsivi> Mamarok: yes, I mean OpenGL and 3D, and yes, it works with the radeon driver, but the 3d capabilities of OpenGL 2.0 and upwards are not really comparable to those below 2.0
[09:30] <Mamarok> did you even try it?
[09:30] <larsivi> yes, fglrx didn't even start X for me until today
[09:31] <larsivi> the radeon driver do not provide all of composition for me, fwiw, but that isn't really important
[09:31] <larsivi> when none work, it suggests a larger issue
[09:31] <Mamarok> I mean, did you even try the Radeon driver? Usually the fglrx drivers don't work as well
[09:32] <Mamarok> but again, you should ask in #ubuntu+1, since drivers and X.org are not dependant on KDE
[09:32] <Mamarok> in my experience the fglrx never worked correctly, now the Radeon does
[09:35] <larsivi> Mamarok: yes, I've used the radeon driver for several weeks, and it does not provide what I need if I am to use my laptop for work
[09:35] <Mamarok> OK
[09:35] <larsivi> My point with the first message above though, was that composition does not work in _kde_ for me
[09:47] <Riddell> happy new week kubuntu
[09:48] <debfx> larsivi: you might need to set CheckIsSafe=true in ~/.kde/share/config/kwinrc
[09:50] <debfx> if you can't enable the desktop effects in system settings
[09:52] <larsivi> debfx: I'm allowed to enable them, but they disable themselves afterwards
[10:35] <Sput> the radeon driver is at OGL 2.1 nowadays
[10:35] <Sput> with parts of OGL 3.0 already present
[10:36] <Sput> and it works much better and smoother than fglrx:>
[10:43] <debfx> at least on R700 there is no 3d acceleration :(
[10:51] <Sput> I have an r700 and I have perfect 3d acceleration
[10:51] <Sput> then again, my drivers might be newer than yours
[10:58] <debfx> etuxracer runs at <30 fps
[10:59] <debfx> I think the radeon version in lucid is the most recent
[11:09] <apachelogger> JontheEchidna: congrats :)
[11:21]  * apachelogger returns with a pot of coffee and starts mumbling about letting him go to bed at decent times...
[11:29] <jussi01> apachelogger: I thought it was down to 9?
[11:29]  * jussi01 looks... yup... 9.
[11:29] <apachelogger> 9 cups of coffee?
[11:29] <apachelogger> nevar
[11:30] <jussi01> no... 9 bugs
[11:30] <apachelogger> shall I put it up again?
[11:30] <apachelogger> + I didnt even nominate the shiz that was found yesterday :P
[11:30] <apachelogger> turns out all of ktorrent was not translated
[11:37] <debfx> is the "wait x seconds before suspension" feature working for anyone?
[11:37] <debfx> the ui even says minutes ^^
[11:38] <apachelogger> not here
[11:38] <apachelogger> then again it only does come to that when I leave my netbook alone
[11:38] <debfx> maybe that's the cause for the double suspension
[11:38] <apachelogger> very possible
[11:39] <apachelogger> debfx: btw, did the icon-got-lost-from-computer-tab reappear?
[11:40] <apachelogger> bug 437338
[11:40] <apachelogger> look a viewmodel that is 0 ^^
[11:41] <debfx> apachelogger: yes, but my patch seems to fix the issue https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=232901#c5
[11:42] <apachelogger> debfx: ok, I'll add to package and commit upstream, thanks :)
[11:44] <amichair> JontheEchidna: congratulations!! :-)
[11:46] <debfx> apachelogger: great, thanks
[11:46] <debfx> yes, PowerDevilDaemon::emitNotification() calls the slot immediately and after suspension wait time
[11:46]  * debfx considers powerdevil to be seriously broken
[11:46] <apachelogger> ^^
[11:49] <apachelogger> ktorrent all triaged out
[11:49] <apachelogger> well, except for 2 thingies that ought to be upstream issues but since amichair is poking around in one of them I'll leave them ;)
[11:50] <amichair> apachelogger: come again?
[11:51] <apachelogger> does still no one wanna package grantlee?
[11:51] <apachelogger> amichair: nvm :P
[11:51] <apachelogger> steveire: I dont think Kubuntu devs are much into grantlee packaging, and I dont know how to pronnounce it ;)
[11:53] <steveire> apachelogger: I wouldn't mind trying to package it myself if I don't have to spend 2 days getting a packaging environment up and running.
[11:54] <steveire> I just have no idea what's involved with packaging.
[11:54] <apachelogger> steveire: you understestimate the complexity of debian packaging
[11:55] <apachelogger> there are 4 approaches to packaging something right now
[11:56] <debfx> apachelogger: could you mark https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=232729 as a duplicate as I mentioned in the last comment
[11:56] <apachelogger> steveire: but I think the packaging env will be the least of the problems ;)
[11:56] <apachelogger> steveire: so if you want to give it a try... be my guest
[11:56] <steveire> I'm not committing to anything yet. :)
[11:57] <steveire> Is there a list of the 4 approaches?
[11:57] <apachelogger> debfx: done
[11:58] <apachelogger> steveire: no, to break it down 1. low level make 2. make + auotmagic via debhelper scripts 3. cdbs 4. dh7 (which is essentially cdbs doen properly)
[11:58] <apachelogger> steveire: you really only want to use the fourth approach, forunately it is the one with least documetnation ^^
[11:59] <apachelogger> steveire: sudo apt-get install devscripts ubuntu-dev-tools pbuilder dh-make debhelper pkg-kde-tools
[11:59] <apachelogger> that should get all the stuff you need
[12:00] <apachelogger> steveire: then I recommend you get the attica, since I suppose packaging wise you will have to do something very similar
[12:00] <apachelogger> pull-lp-source attica
[12:01] <apachelogger> will take care of that, then you should have attica-0.1.3
[12:01] <apachelogger> inside is the debian/ dir (which should, contain all packaging stuff for a package)
[12:02] <apachelogger> changelog is obviously the changelog and follows a very strict format (best is to only manipulate via the tool dch)
[12:04] <apachelogger> compat is something debhelper related, control is essentially the package "definition", copyright lists all copyrights and licensed affecting this package, docs can be present and contain files from the source tarball that ought to be installed to usr/share/doc/package/, *.install files list which files from make install to install into which package, patches (if available) contain patches ... preferred way of patching is via quilt, rules
[12:04] <apachelogger>  is the actually build magic, essentially rules is just a make file but aforementioned dh7 adds loads of automagic to it and almost easy to use
[12:05] <apachelogger> source, if present, defines the source format of the package, watch, if present, contains a regex url that can be used by the tool uscan to scan for new upstream versions
[12:07] <apachelogger> the wiki page from above + http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ + http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html
[12:07] <apachelogger> should contain any additional information you need
[12:07] <apachelogger> steveire: still willing to give it a try? ;)
[12:08] <steveire> steveire: The apt-get is done. I'd switched back to something else :)
[12:09] <steveire> "Unable to find source package 'attica' in the Jaunty-release pocket."
[12:09] <apachelogger> oh
[12:09] <apachelogger> steveire: attach a lucid to that command
[12:09]  * apachelogger is wondering if one can build a source format 3 package on jaunty anyway
[12:09] <steveire> pull-lp-source attica lucid
[12:09] <steveire> Unable to find source package 'attica' in the Lucid-release pocket.
[12:10] <apachelogger> man
[12:10] <apachelogger> dget https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+archive/primary/+files/attica_0.1.3-0ubuntu1.dsc
[12:10] <apachelogger> dpkg-source -x attica_0.1.3-0ubuntu1.dsc
[12:15] <steveire_> apachelogger: I'm on 9.10 here. Will that work?
[12:16] <apachelogger> steveire: building the package won't, but you either can create a lucid chroot yourself or let pbuilder do it for you
[12:16] <apachelogger> thing is that dh7 + new source format were only introduced in lucid
[12:17] <apachelogger> but it makes packaging a lot more easy
[12:19] <CIA-6> kubuntu: Harald Sitter <apachelogger@ubuntu.com> * rapachelogger@ubuntu.com-20100412111935-aylnpozduef1i884 kdebase-workspace/debian/ (3 files in 2 dirs):
[12:19] <CIA-6> kubuntu: Add kubuntu_04_fix_kickoff_model_loading.diff by Felix Geyer to fix
[12:19] <CIA-6> kubuntu: Kickoff's model loading, which caused stuff to randomly disappear from
[12:19] <CIA-6> kubuntu: the computer tab (also see KDE Bug 232901)
[12:19] <apachelogger> debfx: ^
[12:23] <lex79> apachelogger: CIA is your pet? :)
[12:25] <apachelogger> I should make it watch my kde commits too ^^
[12:25] <apachelogger> debfx: also kde rev 1113958 and kde rev 1113960
[12:25] <apachelogger> The final freeze goes into effect this Thursday, April 15
[12:25] <apachelogger> omg
[12:25] <apachelogger> ALREADY
[12:26] <apachelogger> WAAAAAAAH
[12:26] <apachelogger> there are too many bugs
[12:26] <apachelogger> no no no
[12:26] <apachelogger> ahhhh
[12:26]  * apachelogger goes mad
[12:26] <lex79> lol
[12:26] <Sput> yeah, way too early :(
[12:26] <apachelogger> imagine we are in uber restrictive release freeze for almost half a month
[12:26] <apachelogger> then add on top of that how long it takes to get the new toolchain going
[12:27] <steveire_> apachelogger: So do I copy the debian dir of attica into an untarred dir of grantlee and start from there?
[12:27] <apachelogger> we could easily go on vacation for a month ^^
[12:27] <apachelogger> that is if l10n doesnt break
[12:27] <apachelogger> steveire: yep
[12:27] <apachelogger> steveire: you want to rename your tarball in the form name_version.orig.tar.$FOO though
[12:27] <apachelogger> that is also very strict
[12:28] <apachelogger> if it is not of that precise name the tools will start bitching
[12:30] <apachelogger> ScottK, imbrandon: btw, when adding patches to workspace, please reuse the lower range of numbers
[12:31] <apachelogger> especially since ls' sorting algo seems to be off
[12:31] <steveire_> What is $FOO ?
[12:32] <steveire_> I'm not sure if renaming the tarball should help anything. I don't see any tarball in the attica dir. Do you mean rename the dir after untarring?
[12:33] <apachelogger> steveire: with source format 3 it can be gz or bz2, which is recommended
[12:34] <apachelogger> steveire: no the dir, only the tarball
[12:34] <apachelogger> me@osiris:~/src/deb/attic/attica-0.1.3$ ls ../*orig*
[12:34] <apachelogger> ../attica_0.1.2.orig.tar.bz2  ../attica_0.1.3.orig.tar.bz2
[12:34]  * apachelogger pressed some random buttons and now his konsole tab got a red !
[12:34] <apachelogger> wondering what that means
[12:34] <apachelogger> certainly not good ^^
[12:35] <Tm_T> you pressed her "buttons" and how she is blushing
[12:35] <apachelogger> ohhhhh
[12:35] <apachelogger> I suppose that makes sense :)
[12:35] <steveire_> Oh, I see
[12:36] <Tm_T> steveire_: orig is the upstream tarball
[12:42]  * apachelogger tests
[12:44] <CIA-6> sitter * r1113965 workspace/trunk/KDE/kdebase/workspace/kcontrol/randr/randroutput.cpp:
[12:44] <CIA-6> Make revert display resolution change work by enabling output/crtc in the RandROutput::propose* functions.
[12:44] <CIA-6> Thanks to Felix Geyer for the patch!
[12:44] <CIA-6> BUG: 222110
[12:44] <apachelogger> ^^
[12:44] <apachelogger> debfx: ^
[12:45] <CIA-6> sitter * r1113969 workspace/branches/KDE/4.4/kdebase/workspace/kcontrol/randr/randroutput.cpp:
[12:45] <CIA-6> Backport r1113965.
[12:45] <CIA-6> Make revert display resolution change work by enabling output/crtc in the RandROutput::propose* functions.
[12:45] <CIA-6> Thanks to Felix Geyer for the patch!
[12:45] <CIA-6> BUG: 222110
[12:52]  * apachelogger pokes a bit into the filters
[13:08]  * apachelogger sighs
[13:08] <apachelogger> mysql!!!
[13:08] <apachelogger> I hate you!!!
[13:08] <apachelogger> mysql--
[13:09] <apachelogger> users will eat us because of mysql
[13:12] <Sput> time for it to die
[13:12] <Sput> go go go Oracle, kill it!
[13:12] <Tm_T> naah, better not kill it
[13:31] <apachelogger> Looking for 'mysql' as: mysql
[13:31] <apachelogger> FATAL ERROR: Can't execute 'mysql'
[13:31] <apachelogger> fantastic
[13:31] <apachelogger> mysql--
[13:32] <rgreening_> sed -i 's/mysql/apachelogger'/g
[13:32] <rgreening_> :P
[13:33] <apachelogger> rgreening_--
[13:33] <rgreening_> lol
[13:33] <apachelogger> rgreening_: how is the mouse cursor stuff going? :P
[13:33] <rgreening_> hmm... never had a chance to get that e-mail written yet. Busy week-end. Ill work on it today.
[13:34] <rgreening_> rgreening--
[13:34] <apachelogger> rightly so :P
[13:34] <apachelogger> well
[13:34] <apachelogger> this is terrific
[13:34] <apachelogger> one cant define what that app is looking for
[13:35] <apachelogger> the scalability of mysql is incredible
[13:38] <apachelogger> oh wonderful
[13:39] <apachelogger> the other executable is in the client package
[13:39] <apachelogger> WTF
[13:40] <apachelogger> oh
[13:40] <apachelogger> it only drags in 9 MiB of packages and uses 23 MiB of disk space
[13:41] <Tm_T> just admit it, you love it
[13:41] <apachelogger> yeah
[13:41] <apachelogger> it is so ruthless and dirty
[13:41]  * apachelogger actually likes it that way :P
[13:41] <apachelogger> oh
[13:41] <Tm_T> ...as soon as Amarok supports postgresql again, I can drop mysql
[13:42] <apachelogger> as it happens to be, once those 9 MiB are installed and the god forsaken script is moved to another package it seems to be working
[13:42] <apachelogger> Tm_T: did you migrate akonadi to it?
[13:42] <Tm_T> yup
[13:42] <apachelogger> lucky you
[13:42] <apachelogger> Riddell: ping
[13:44] <ScottK> apachelogger: No source v3 on Jaunty (at least not in a PPA or the Ubuntu archive).  IIRC dpkg itself supports it.
[13:44] <ScottK> apachelogger: OK (re patch numbers)
[13:45] <apachelogger> debian/rules:8: /usr/share/dpatch/dpatch.make: No such file or directory
[13:45] <apachelogger> dpatch \o/
[13:45] <apachelogger> there are a billion patch systems and mysql uses the most ugly one
[13:46] <ScottK> apachelogger: With dpatch-edit-patch it's perfectly tractable.
[13:46] <apachelogger> dpatch-edit-patch is dirty
[13:46] <apachelogger> probalby even more dirty and ruthless than mysql
[13:48] <apachelogger> so
[13:48] <apachelogger> ScottK: I am not sure if it affects us, but technically akonadi just update it's mysql tabels every once in a while
[13:48] <apachelogger> I have got a patch for that ready and all
[13:48] <apachelogger> BUT
[13:49] <apachelogger> to do that the user must have mysql_upgrade installed
[13:49] <apachelogger> currently in the mysql-server-5.1 package
[13:49] <ScottK> Can we move it?
[13:49] <apachelogger> that can easily be moved to the -core package
[13:49] <apachelogger> BUT
[13:49] <apachelogger> it depends on mysqlcheck, which happens to be in mysql-client-5.1
[13:49] <apachelogger> for client we have no core package right now and I am afraid introducing one could lead to regressions of some sort
[13:50] <apachelogger> so options are regression or depending on the >= 9MiB that are mysql-client-5.1 + additional deps
[13:52] <ScottK> apachelogger: Can you go whine at the server people about it and see what they suggest?
[13:53] <ScottK> We can't afford that 9MB.
[13:53] <apachelogger> ScottK: I was hoping you could ;)
[13:53] <ScottK> Oh my.
[13:53] <apachelogger> I am still trying to cripple client so that we get client-core
[13:53] <ScottK> OK.
[13:53] <apachelogger> thx
[13:53] <ScottK> Give me a moment
[13:55] <apachelogger> lol, awesome, msql_upgrade fails if there is no mysql executable to be found ... so I go touch mysql; chmod +x mysql in a $PATH dir and voila it works
[13:55] <ScottK> What is it we want?
[13:56] <apachelogger> ScottK: we want mysql_upgrade form server to server-core and mysqlcheck from -client to a new -client-core
[13:56] <apachelogger> and maybe mysql from -client to -client-core too
[13:56] <apachelogger> then I would not have to fake the mysql executable
[13:56] <apachelogger> BUT
[13:57] <apachelogger> Whether we want mysql in -client-core entirely depends on how big it is including deps and all
[13:57] <ScottK> OK.  You'll probably have to explain this to me two or three more times.  I didn't sleep well last night and I'm more than a little fuzzy.
[13:58] <ScottK> This is, of course, complicated by my distaste for mysql in general.
[13:58] <apachelogger> It's not like I find mysql very attracting ;)
[13:58] <Riddell> apachelogger: you pung?
[13:59] <ScottK> apachelogger: That says good things about you.
[13:59] <ScottK> It's pretty much the php of rdms.
[13:59] <apachelogger> Riddell: see the last 30 lines or so about our new mysql+akonadi issue
[13:59] <ScottK> We have roughly an hour to kill until Mathiaz is expected to appear.
[13:59] <apachelogger> well
[14:00] <apachelogger> "new"
[14:01]  * apachelogger is wondering what will happen if he builds with -j3
[14:02] <apachelogger> oh
[14:02] <Riddell> apachelogger: akonadi still not happy on upgrades?
[14:02] <apachelogger> Actually, rules got magic for that, rather fancy actually.
[14:02] <apachelogger> Riddell: I am afraid we might run into issues with users who had used 5.0 at some point for akonadi
[14:03] <apachelogger> Also. Knowing MySQL there is no saying that some version we shipped in early karmic cycle is not incompatible with current lucid without upgrade.
[14:03] <apachelogger> The like to change hackedcompability around.
[14:03] <apachelogger> erm
[14:03] <apachelogger> compability ;)
[14:04] <Riddell> apachelogger: do you know if amarok has similar issues?
[14:04] <apachelogger> Unlikely.
[14:04] <ScottK> Different approach to the madness there.
[14:05] <apachelogger> Yeah, since it embedds everything we wouldn have to mess wiht runtime resources anyway.
[14:05] <Riddell> but it's still the same sort of database tables surely?
[14:06] <apachelogger> mustnt
[14:06] <apachelogger> well, not necessarily anyway
[14:07] <apachelogger> Sine Amarok is used across various versions of 5.1 I would also expect that they had fixed any ugprade issues by now.
[14:07] <apachelogger> What really troubles me is bug 554660
[14:07] <apachelogger> DarkwingDuck had the exact same mysql startup error
[14:08] <apachelogger> and I tried my best mysql magic on it but did not succeed in repairing the tables.
[14:15] <ScottK> Maybe the upgrader needs to be taught to make a backup copy.
[14:15] <Riddell> that would be a kconf_upgrade script job
[14:26] <apachelogger> ScottK: I dont think it is from a failed upgrade.
[14:26] <apachelogger> More like a failed initializiatoin or something.
[14:27] <apachelogger> It just happens to get exposed in lucid to to the stronger usage of akonadi
[14:27] <ScottK> apachelogger: Yes, but if the problem happens, then the original data won't be lost.
[14:28] <apachelogger> ScottK: what data?
[14:28] <ScottK> The data in akonadi.
[14:28] <apachelogger> ScottK: the upgrade without mysql_upgrade?
[14:29] <ScottK> Whatever data DarkwingDuck had that got clobbered.
[14:29] <apachelogger> ScottK: none I think... that is my theory
[14:29] <ScottK> Oh.  OK.  Nevermind then.
[14:30] <apachelogger> akonadi doesnt contain no data, possibly BECAUSE of this issue
[14:30] <apachelogger> but the issue cannot be autoresolved, and the user must wipe akonadi himself
[14:38] <imbrandon> apachelogger: okies ( re: patch numbers )
[14:39] <imbrandon> off to the wherehouse for the day, see yall in a few hours
[15:06]  * apachelogger is way too good looking
[15:06] <apachelogger> ScottK: I have a magic diff that makes all necessary changes
[15:07] <apachelogger> 160K for core-client
[15:07] <ScottK> apachelogger: Excellent.
[15:07] <apachelogger>  Depends: libc6 (>= 2.4), libgcc1 (>= 1:4.1.1), libmysqlclient16 (>= 5.1.21-1), libncurses5 (>= 5.6+20071006-3), libreadline6 (>= 6.0), libstdc++6 (>= 4.1.1), zlib1g (>= 1:1.1.4)
[15:07] <ScottK> Mathias still did not arrive.
[15:08] <apachelogger> all those seem to be on the CD already
[15:08] <ScottK> Should be.
[15:08] <apachelogger> I still have to test this in a clear environment.
[15:12] <ScottK> debfx: I can confirm the plasma-netbook widget overlap fix is good.  Thank you again.
[15:12] <shadeslayer> Riddell: pinn
[15:12] <ScottK> apachelogger: Can you send that one upstream too?
[15:12] <Riddell> hi shadeslayer
[15:12] <apachelogger> ScottK: is there an upstream report?
[15:13] <ScottK> No idea.
[15:13]  * apachelogger feels uncomfortable pushing something upstream for which there is no report with a comment stating the patch fixes the issue
[15:13] <ScottK> notmart seems to be offline at the moment.  We've discussed the problem with him before.
[15:14] <ScottK> The problem was uncovered by our distro specific config.
[15:14] <ScottK> It's not a shock it wouldn't get reported upstream.
[15:14] <ScottK> IIRC, notmart agreed it shoulnd't happen.
[15:16] <apachelogger> well
[15:16] <apachelogger> I'll take a look once I am done with testing here
[15:16] <ScottK> OK.  Thanks.
[15:26] <debfx> ScottK: I've fixed the double suspend bug
[15:26] <ScottK> debfx: Excellent.
[15:28] <CIA-6> [workspace] sitter * trunk/KDE/kdebase/workspace/plasma/generic/applets/activitybar/activitybar.cpp
[15:29] <debfx> could someone mark https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=225010 as a duplicate of https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=221637
[15:29] <ScottK> I don't think I can do that.
[15:29]  * apachelogger looks
[15:36] <CIA-6> [workspace] sitter * 1114034 * branches/KDE/4.4/kdebase/workspace/plasma/generic/applets/activitybar/activitybar.cpp Backport r1114030. Fix by Felix Geyer to allow the activity bar applet to shrink below intended size, as discussed by Kubuntu developers with notmart.
[15:40] <apachelogger> that format looks pretty decent, doesn tit?
[15:43] <ScottK> Nicely anonymous too.
[15:43] <apachelogger> ScottK: anonymous?
[15:43] <ScottK> "Kubuntu developers"  could be anyone.
[15:44] <apachelogger> right ^^
[15:44] <ScottK> NCommander: Would you have a chance to look into bug 561303.  Maybe there are some patches we could cherrypick?
[15:46] <apachelogger> weeh
[15:46] <apachelogger> Apparently myMySQL changes are all awesome and super
[15:46] <apachelogger> \o/
[15:49] <apachelogger> oh dear
[15:49] <apachelogger> VirtualBox is quite silly
[15:49] <Riddell> apachelogger: you are truely awesome and super
[15:50] <apachelogger> I created a snapshot, and nice as it is it shows how long ago it was created. Now it could go fuzzy and say "created less than one minute ago" and QTime 1 minute so it checks again, then say "created more than a minute ago" QTime 4 minutes...
[15:51]  * apachelogger hugs Riddell
[15:51] <apachelogger> What VBox does though, is count up for real :/
[15:53] <Riddell> NCommander: are you going to Akademy?
[15:55]  * apachelogger tries to trace a possible apparmor issue in akonadi
[16:05]  * apachelogger is wondering why akonadi is not bzr-branch'd
[16:09] <Riddell> apachelogger: nobody's had a need to thus far i think, but go ahead and make it so if you want
[16:09] <apachelogger> Will do.
[16:10] <debfx> can anyone confirm that idle suspension only works once per session?
[16:10] <apachelogger> More consistent if we have our parts of the stack in bzr.
[16:10] <ScottK> debfx: Where is the patch?
[16:12] <shadeslayer> Riddell: ah sorry for that
[16:12] <debfx> ScottK: http://paste.ubuntu.com/413172/ but I'm still testing it
[16:12] <ScottK> OK.
[16:12] <shadeslayer> Riddell: i got the package today.... 300 CD's
[16:12] <CIA-6> [akonadi] Harald Sitter <apachelogger@ubuntu.com> * apachelogger@ubuntu.com-20100412151231-xhi67kl6op80y0vc * (23 files in 4 dirs) Import 1.3.1-0ubuntu2
[16:12] <shadeslayer> Riddell: but they charged me on import duty so the package is currently on hold..
[16:13] <shadeslayer> Riddell: ideally the shipment is free right?
[16:13] <debfx> though the suspension only once per session bug seems to occur even without the patch
[16:13] <ScottK> debfx: We'll probably need to avoid the string change.
[16:14] <ScottK> debfx: I only see it if the system has been idle for long enough that it would suspend on battery.
[16:14] <ScottK> (the double)
[16:16] <CIA-6> [akonadi] Harald Sitter <apachelogger@ubuntu.com> * apachelogger@ubuntu.com-20100412151634-lhbbuvhf8q5294hl * debian/ (4 files in 2 dirs) * Set VCS fields to Bazaar branches * Sync kubuntu_01_fix_init.diff with upstream SVN as per KDE bug 185395. * Expand apparmor profile to silence apparmor complaints in syslog.
[16:17] <Riddell> shadeslayer: shipment is free yes, there's a sticker on the packaging saying that it's promotional material with no market value, whether or not your customs officers care to believe that isn't something canonical has much control over I'm afraid
[16:18] <shadeslayer> Riddell: yes i showed them the label and everything
[16:18] <shadeslayer> Riddell: so ill call them up tomorrow and see what can be done
[16:28] <apachelogger> bug 554514 is also most interesting
[16:28] <apachelogger> I observe that at times Akonadi refuses to find agents (almost always if it is the first start).
[16:28] <apachelogger> The fun part about this, is that the log lists all agents!
[16:30] <debfx> ScottK: when you configure powerdevil to suspend after 1 min idle time, it (double-)suspends after 1min but fails to suspend again after waking up the system and waiting another minute
[16:31] <shadeslayer> um.. why did kdebase-workspace-bin just move from 08 to 10 ?
[16:31] <shadeslayer> did i miss something
[16:32] <ScottK> debfx: Could Bug 538075 be related?
[16:32] <ScottK> shadeslayer: 9 didn't last long.
[16:32] <shadeslayer> ah..
[16:32] <shadeslayer> ScottK: so it didnt get uploaded or what?
[16:33] <ScottK> shadeslayer: It did, but it was superseded very quickly.
[16:36] <debfx> ScottK: I don't think so
[16:41] <rgreening> Riddell, nixternal: or whoever did it... ty ty ty ty ty for making the Kickoff braning icon smaller. My eyes ty very much :P
[16:42]  * ScottK choses to blame debfx, since he's fixing almost everything.
[16:43] <apachelogger> oh great
[16:44] <steveire> apachelogger: I was too busy to learn packaing today I'm afraid.
[16:44] <apachelogger> Yesterday the weather plasmoid promised me better weather on Tuesday and now it claims that rain will persist until at least Wednesday :(
[16:45] <apachelogger> steveire: ok, I will give it a shot I suppose
[16:45] <apachelogger> steveire: Unless you want to keep trying :)
[16:49] <steveire> apachelogger: It depends when it needs to be done. I'm going to frankfurt tonight and will be in meetings until friday.
[16:49] <apachelogger> steveire: that entirely depends if you think it makes sense to have it in 10.04
[16:49] <steveire> I might be able to figure it out while there though if I can make time.
[16:50] <apachelogger> because then we should get it done rather sooner than later
[16:50] <apachelogger> super uber monster final freeze starts on apr 15
[16:50] <apachelogger> If it doesn't need to be in 10.04 then there is no hurry
[16:51] <apachelogger> Riddell: btw, what do you think about pushing latest taglib into lucid, it got one very nice memleak fix
[16:51] <steveire> This is a dependency for KJots 4.5, so it's not really a hurry.
[16:51] <apachelogger> Riddell: Though it is very nice all in all.
[16:51] <steveire> However, having it packaged for the next ubuntu release would make people happy about not having to find a tarball or git repo.
[16:52] <steveire> I'd prefer it to get into 10.04 if possible, but not urgently as you say.
[16:52] <apachelogger> well, we can pump it to a PPA
[16:52] <steveire> Yeah.
[16:52] <apachelogger> question is...
[16:52] <debfx> ScottK: can you reproduce the powerdevil bug I described above?
[16:52] <apachelogger> steveire: Will KJots 4.5 use 0.1?
[16:52] <steveire> Yes, or 0.1.x if there's some bug fixes
[16:53] <ScottK> debfx: Give me a bit to finish something I'm working on and I'll give it a try.
[16:53] <apachelogger> steveire: well, if you build-dep on 0.1 we should try to get it into lucid, then indeed devs do not need to add a PPA for the time being
[16:53] <apachelogger> I'll see if I get round to it.
[16:54] <steveire> Cool, thanks.
[16:54] <apachelogger> rgreening: how is that mail to ayatana coming along? ;)
[16:54] <steveire> I'm off now anyway. Try email if you have any questions.
[16:54] <apachelogger> aye aye
[16:54] <Riddell> apachelogger: if upstream want it and there's definately no new features we can do it
[16:54] <apachelogger> steveire: save trip
[16:55] <apachelogger> Riddell: http://www.kdedevelopers.org/node/4197
[16:55] <apachelogger> very much bugfix only
[16:55] <Riddell> apachelogger: go for it
[16:55] <apachelogger> kk
[17:06] <apachelogger> kubuntu-bugs now monitors taglib
[17:16] <apachelogger> Riddell: when do we decide about the new logo?
[17:17] <Riddell> apachelogger: I'd like to see if nixternal has any feedback in the questionnaire
[17:17] <Riddell> apachelogger: I've not seen any negative feedback so I think it's a go-er
[17:17] <apachelogger> aye
[17:17]  * apachelogger pokes nixternal with a long pointy stick
[17:17] <Riddell> apachelogger: CD covers are being designed now so if we want to change we need to be quick
[17:17] <Riddell> as far as I've seen people like it
[17:17] <apachelogger> Riddell: that is why I am asking :)
[17:17] <apachelogger> Also a bunch of launchpad icons need changing I guess
[17:18] <apachelogger> debfx: while you are on suspend stuff: bug 560539
[17:21] <Mamarok> folks, there is a serious problem with your Phonon version: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=234072
[17:21] <Mamarok> please talk to cguthrie in #phonon
[17:23] <Mamarok> apparently you are not using the KDE provided Phonon, but the Qt one... which doesn't have the pulseaudio integration and a lot of patches made by the KDE people
[17:24] <ScottK> Actually we've patched the KDE one into Qt.
[17:24] <ScottK> IIRC the pulseaudio stuff landed rather late to all be included.
[17:25] <ScottK> I think Jon Thomas is the one to discuss it with and he's not here.
[17:26] <apachelogger> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/choqok/+bug/390643/comments/4
[17:26] <apachelogger> does he mean upstream?
[17:26]  * apachelogger is not sure what he means by main stream
[17:27] <apachelogger> ah well
[17:27] <apachelogger> upstream it needs to go either way
[17:52] <debfx> is there a way to tell kde to lock the screen on resume from ram/disk? powerdevil can be configured that way but that only applies to powerdevil
[17:52] <Mamarok> ScottK: I will subscribe him to the bug, thanks :)
[17:55] <Riddell> debfx: how else do you suspend/resume if not powerdevil?
[17:55]  * apachelogger sings about irish rovers and the like
[17:57] <debfx> Riddell: powerdevil isn't involved when you manually suspend
[17:58] <Riddell> debfx: don't manually suspend :)
[17:58]  * apachelogger always was a fan of dont-boot-your-pc-if-you-dont-like-bugs ;)
[17:59] <debfx> :D
[18:08] <apachelogger> neversfelde: ping
[18:08] <neversfelde> apachelogger: pong
[18:08] <apachelogger> neversfelde: are you going to get digikam and kipi in?
[18:08] <apachelogger> cause releease freeze starts in 3 days
[18:08] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: powerdevil is in kdebase package i guess?
[18:09] <debfx> the lock/logout applet uses powerdevil when you press the sleep button, but doesn't if you use the generic logout button :(
[18:09] <apachelogger> shadeslayer: workspace
[18:09] <neversfelde> apachelogger: I hope I will manage it til thursday, but unfortunatley I cannot start before tomorrow evening
[18:10] <apachelogger> oh dear
[18:10] <neversfelde> :(
[18:10]  * apachelogger finds the tightness of that schedule rather scary
[18:11] <Riddell> ubuntu has 44 gsoc applications compared to 200 for KDE
[18:11] <shadeslayer> Riddell: \o/
[18:11] <Riddell> of which 9 are Kubuntu
[18:12] <neversfelde> apachelogger: so the wiki says it would need two freeze exceptions, feature freeze and ui freeze, what is a string freeze exception?
[18:13] <apachelogger> neversfelde: youd get a freeze exceiption for both and mention that it is a new upstream version with string changes and features and stuff, and why we want to have it despite all that
[18:13] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: because it closes 99 bugs? :P
[18:13] <neversfelde> it fixes 99 bugs :)
[18:13] <apachelogger> ^^
[18:14] <shadeslayer> and introduces...ah well who cares? :P
[18:15] <shadeslayer> why cant we just have it backports?
[18:15] <Tm_T> shadeslayer: none as far as we know (;)
[18:16] <shadeslayer> ah its not a backport...
[18:16] <apachelogger> there crashes the amarok
[18:16] <shadeslayer> Tm_T: thats good :D
[18:16]  * apachelogger does the amarok-crashed dance
[18:16] <Tm_T> shadeslayer: or so we always say if someone asks
[18:16]  * shadeslayer starts picking up the pieces
[18:16] <shadeslayer> Tm_T: hehe
[18:16] <Tm_T> apachelogger: would you do plasma-all-messed-up dance for me?
[18:17] <apachelogger> nope
[18:17] <Tm_T> ):
[18:17]  * apachelogger is busy switching to bangarang
[18:17] <apachelogger> BANGARANG
[18:17] <apachelogger> That name got a nice ring to it ;)
[18:17] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: hehe... bangarang is awesome...
[18:17] <Tm_T> I never got it working here...
[18:17] <apachelogger> last time I used it it was utter crap to say the least
[18:17] <apachelogger> promising utter crap though
[18:18] <shadeslayer> nah.. works here...im on git build though
[18:18] <Tm_T> shadeslayer: me too
[18:18] <apachelogger> it might, at some point supsersed plasma in both uselessness and crashyness
[18:18] <neversfelde> shadeslayer: I saw you answering the digikam bug report. I already packaged digikam 1.2, but kipi-plugins is still to do, so if you have some time ...
[18:18] <apachelogger> it is already as good in loosing data ^^
[18:19] <shadeslayer> Tm_T: i compile half my apps :P
[18:19]  * apachelogger initates git clone wars between bangarang and amarok
[18:19] <shadeslayer> neversfelde: ah.. whend do you need it?
[18:20] <shadeslayer> *when
[18:20] <apachelogger> bangarang wins
[18:20] <apachelogger> :S
[18:20] <Tm_T> shadeslayer: I compile Qt and whole KDE here...
[18:20] <debfx> apachelogger: could you commit another patch to kde trunk? https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=233103
[18:20]  * shadeslayer bows to Tm_T
[18:20] <neversfelde> shadeslayer: it needs to go in before thursday and also freeze exceptions. Probably it is necessary to merge it with debian
[18:20] <apachelogger> good lord
[18:20] <apachelogger> debfx: do we have that packaged up?
[18:20] <apachelogger> ohhh
[18:20] <shadeslayer> neversfelde: ill have a looksie
[18:21] <apachelogger> debfx: nvm
[18:21] <Tm_T> shadeslayer: it bites me now though, aaron broke plasma-desktop :-P
[18:21] <shadeslayer> neversfelde: i can upload it right now to my ppa,dunno if it will build
[18:21] <shadeslayer> Tm_T: aaron?
[18:21] <Tm_T> shadeslayer: aseigo
[18:21] <apachelogger> render bug!
[18:21] <apachelogger> omg
[18:21] <apachelogger> debfx: do we want to break the string for fixing that bug?
[18:22] <apachelogger> s/string/translation
[18:22] <shadeslayer> neversfelde: you need 1.2.0 right?
[18:22] <neversfelde> shadeslayer: yes
[18:22] <ScottK> debfx: I can reproduce the double suspend and then no suspend at all behavior.
[18:22] <apachelogger> Tm_T: whats there to break?
[18:23] <shadeslayer> neversfelde: ok ill work on it and if theres no power outage,itll be uploaded in half an hout
[18:23] <shadeslayer> *hour
[18:23] <neversfelde> shadeslayer: I think you will need more time ;)
[18:23] <Tm_T> apachelogger: if one has more than one panel in desktop -> the second panel goes doubled and whole plasma-desktop goes hangup, eating all cpu for nothing
[18:23] <shadeslayer> neversfelde: really?
[18:23] <shadeslayer> neversfelde: lets see :P
[18:24] <apachelogger> Tm_T: so how is that different from non-trunk plasma? :P
[18:24] <shadeslayer> neversfelde: btw should i mention the digikam bug as closed in the changelog?
[18:24] <ScottK> neversfelde: For digikam, I already verified docs aren't affected, so U/I freeze is no problem.
[18:24] <Tm_T> apachelogger: it all worked perfectly until aarons latest rework, I just love those big changes just before going weekend off :-P
[18:24] <neversfelde> shadeslayer: have a look at the Debian changes since last merge and you definetly should testbuild locally, not only in a ppa
[18:24] <shadeslayer> or for that matter any other kipi bug?
[18:25] <shadeslayer> neversfelde: ah ok
[18:25] <apachelogger> Tm_T: lol, sure, perfectly, haha ^^
[18:25] <apachelogger> worked
[18:25] <apachelogger> hahaha
[18:25] <apachelogger> rofl
[18:25] <neversfelde> ScottK: ok, I will write the freeze exception requests now and goodbye learning^^
[18:25] <ScottK> Excellent
[18:25] <shadeslayer> neversfelde: where are the debian changes?
[18:26] <neversfelde> shadeslayer: have a look at the debian package
[18:26] <debfx> apachelogger: i'm not sure
[18:26] <shadeslayer> oh ok
[18:26] <debfx> ScottK: ok thanks, I guess I'll have to do some more debugging
[18:27] <ScottK> debfx: I also checked and if, after it doesn't suspend the second time, I change the suspend time to 2 minutes in power devil and apply, it will then suspend after two minutes.
[18:28] <shadeslayer> neversfelde: http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/k/kipi-plugins/kipi-plugins_1.2.0-1/changelog <<
[18:29] <shadeslayer> neversfelde: um cant we sync it with experimental?
[18:30] <shadeslayer> or did i get the whole automatic sync tools thing wrong...
[18:30] <neversfelde> shadeslayer: no, there are Ubuntu changes, that can't be dropped
[18:30] <shadeslayer> oh right our own patches
[18:31] <shadeslayer> neversfelde: um sorry about this,but why do we need the debian changelog?
[18:34] <neversfelde> shadeslayer: there are a lot of changes, we might want to have too. I only had a quick look so far, so I cannot tell you the details
[18:34] <shadeslayer> neversfelde: is there a wiki which lists the steps i need to do to get this package in?
[18:34] <neversfelde> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess
[18:35] <shadeslayer> neversfelde: ah so i merge the debian and kubuntu patches into one big happy patch folder?
[18:35] <neversfelde> no
[18:35] <shadeslayer> neversfelde: then?
[18:36] <shadeslayer> neversfelde: if youre busy ill ask in motu
[18:36] <neversfelde> shadeslayer: have a look at wiki.ubuntu.com everything should be described there
[18:36] <shadeslayer> ok
[18:36] <CIA-6> [workspace] sitter * 1114072 * trunk/KDE/kdebase/workspace/powerdevil/kcmodule/generalPage.ui Fix UI representation from minute to second, where the backend indeed workes with seconds and not minutes. Thanks to Felix Geyer for the patch! BUG: 233103
[18:36] <apachelogger> debfx: committed
[18:38] <ScottK> apachelogger: We'll have a visit from the Server Team mysql dude in a couple of hours to discuss.
[18:38] <apachelogger> in a couple of hours I might be doing the sleepy sleepy
[18:38] <apachelogger> or at least I hope so
[18:39] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: same here :P
[18:40] <shadeslayer> neversfelde: https://help.ubuntu.com/6.10/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/ubuntu-sync.html : reading
[18:41] <shadeslayer> although thats pretty old....
[18:41] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: whats a good guide to what neversfelde wants accomplished? :P
[18:42] <apachelogger> huh?
[18:42] <apachelogger> I am not sure what you want to do really
[18:42] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: oh neversfelde wants me to merge kipi plugins with debians version
[18:42] <apachelogger> bad idea
[18:43] <apachelogger> either package the new version OR merge with debian BUT both at the same time is the main ingredient for issues
[18:43] <shadeslayer> neversfelde: ^^
[18:43] <debfx> apachelogger: thanks
[18:43] <shadeslayer> i think my shift key is buckling
[18:44] <neversfelde> apachelogger: I think there is only a small change, that prevents from syncing it and Debian introduced a lot of packaging changes, that we all would have to do ourselves, if we do not merge
[18:45] <neversfelde> but as I said before, I only had a quick look at it
[18:45] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: heres the changelog : http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/main/k/kipi-plugins/kipi-plugins_1.2.0-1/changelog
[18:46] <apachelogger> neversfelde: see, there is the problem, a lot of packaging changes == not good 3 days before monster freeze
[18:47] <apachelogger> most recent change looks very dangerous
[18:47] <apachelogger> well
[18:47] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: which one?
[18:47] <shadeslayer> apachelogger: 8 Apr ?
[18:47] <neversfelde> apachelogger: I know and I am not sure, if uploading kipi would be a good idea. But usptream recommends to package digikam and kipi-plugins in the same version, so we should have a look.
[18:47] <apachelogger> yeah
[18:47] <apachelogger> just bump our packaging with the new version
[18:47] <apachelogger> way less a risk
[18:48] <persia> Um, maybe.
[18:48] <persia> It's worth looking at the debian changes to see if there's anything worthwhile there.
[18:48] <neversfelde> I will do this after reporting the exception requests
[18:49] <neversfelde> for digikam
[18:49] <shadeslayer> ah ive gtg...
[18:49] <shadeslayer> bye all :)
[18:50] <shadeslayer> neversfelde: sorry couldnt do the stuff today :(
[19:02] <nixternal> Riddell and apachelogger...looking now
[19:02] <debfx> sebas: have you had a chance to look at the brightness osd patch?
[19:11] <nixternal> Riddell, and apachelogger: there does seem to be close to 200 responses thus far, 100+ for Beta 1, and it seems that Beta 2 responses are going to the RC one for some odd reason...I am guessing when the templates created, there wasn't a beta 2 maybe
[19:15] <nixternal> I take that back about beta 2...beta 2 is there, but somehow people are also posting to the RC one as well :/
[19:15] <apachelogger> it's all about restrictions
[19:16] <txwikinger> apachelogger: wrong.. its all about freedom ;p
[19:16] <nixternal> trying to figure out how to get a nice data output that we can actually use
[20:09] <neversfelde> ScottK: bug 561691 I hope I mentioned everything that is needed.
[20:10] <neversfelde> kipi-plugins has to wait until tomorrow evening, but I will push a package to staging for testing
[20:11] <neversfelde> gn8
[20:13] <ScottK> neversfelde: gwenview uses kipi-plugins too.  That will also need testing.
[20:14] <neversfelde> Yes, I know, will do that and now "Finanzbuchhaltung" :)
[20:14] <ScottK> Sounds like something very German and very painful.
[20:15] <neversfelde> financial  accounting
[20:15] <neversfelde> and painful, yes :)
[20:15] <ScottK> Yes, very painful
[20:29] <nixternal> Riddell: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/Lucid/Feedback/Beta2
[20:40] <debfx> ScottK: could you please test these patches: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=221637#c11 and https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=221648#c1
[20:40] <ScottK> debfx: OK.
[20:43]  * debfx has had enough of fixing powerdevil for now
[20:56] <ScottK> debfx: Was there a Launchpad bug for this?  I can't find it.
[20:58] <debfx> ScottK: I don't think so.
[20:58] <ScottK> oK.  Thanks
[21:02] <debfx> it looks like kubuntu users don't do auto-suspension ;)
[21:03] <ScottK> Hmmmm.  IIRC it works for me.
[21:03] <ScottK> The double one I hit a lot.
[21:03] <Riddell> nixternal: 100 responses is pretty good for that survery, wasn't expecting anything like that many
[21:04] <ScottK> debfx: Are you up for any more fixing?  You've been doing great.
[21:05] <debfx> ScottK: if it doesn't involve powerdevil :p
[21:07] <debfx> ScottK: what about the other fix, does it cause any regressions?
[21:07] <ScottK> debfx: My test package is building now.
[21:07] <ScottK> I'll let you know once I've tested it.
[21:09] <ScottK> debfx: Bug #557930 isn't powerdevil.  I'm not sure how much coding is involved in that one or if it's something we can even consider at this point.
[21:22] <Riddell> excid3: hi
[21:22] <excid3> hey Riddell
[21:22] <Riddell> excid3: currently going over GSoC applications, give me 5 minutes to get back to yours
[21:23] <excid3> okay, ill be here for about 40 minutes
[21:24]  * Tm_T huggles excid3
[21:24] <excid3> haha
[21:28] <Riddell> excid3: so I think you have a good idea of the problem from a users view
[21:29] <Riddell> but have you looked at the packagekit architecture at all?
[21:29] <excid3> Riddell, I read all the documentation and was going through the source trying to wrap my head around it better
[21:31] <Riddell> excid3: you realise this might mean changes to packagekit (well reviewed C with strict API requirements), packagekit apt backend (python using python-apt) and kpackagekit (c++ using Qt/kdelibs)?
[21:32] <Blizzz> while updating, fetching linux-image-2.6.32-20-generic  throws a 404 on lucid/32bit
[21:33] <Tm_T> Blizzz: doesn't happen here, which mirror you use? oh that one, don't use that...
[21:33]  * Tm_T hides
[21:33] <excid3> Riddell, yes, I wasn't sure how much it would require regarding packagekit because I have not worked with significantly yet, but I am familiar with C++ and plenty Python
[21:33] <ScottK> Blizzz: That kernel was pulled due to problems on Thinkpads
[21:33] <ScottK> There will be a new one out shortly.
[21:33] <Tm_T> ScottK: ooh
[21:33] <Blizzz> de.archive.ubuntu.com
[21:33] <Blizzz> k, just wanted to let u know
[21:34] <ScottK> Yep.  It's on purpose to keep more things from getting broken until a fix is out.
[21:34] <Riddell> excid3: trouble is nobody seems quite sure, dantti (kackagekit main man) seems to think packagekit has what's needed except for fine grained stuff like ratings so it just needs backend and frontend support.  glatzor (apt backend main man) wasn't so sure
[21:36] <excid3> Riddell, hmmm, I think that packagekit would provide everything necessary, such as being able to categorize things, except for ratings like what you said and possibly where app-install-data would fit in
[21:38] <Riddell> excid3: worth reviewing the log on 2010-03-31 for this channel for a discussion on the topic irclogs.ubuntu.com
[21:39] <debfx> ScottK: I guess kdm shouldn't try to start the failsafe x server until it supports kdm
[21:39] <Riddell> excid3: for UI improvements I expect we'll look at that at the Ubuntu Summit next month and come up with stuff we'd like done
[21:40] <ScottK> debfx: Yes.  That's be the first thing.  Ideally someone would teach kdm to do that.
[21:40] <Riddell> probably best to concentrate on one thing to start with though
[21:40] <excid3> Riddell, okay thanks, and that sounds good, overall the UI doesn't have anything much that needs to be improved, its definitely more important to have a working software-center
[21:41] <Riddell> excid3: oh i think there's plenty that could be improved about the UI :)
[21:42] <excid3> Riddell, haha yeah you're probably right :P
[21:48] <Riddell> excid3: are you familiar with Qt and kdelibs at all?
[21:49] <excid3> Riddell, I have used Qt for several things before but not kdelibs yet
[21:49] <JontheEchidna> yay for dependency freeze: http://www.omat.nl/2010/04/12/kde-4-5-release-schedule-ready/
[21:49] <JontheEchidna> no more surprises :)
[21:50] <Tm_T> indeed
[21:50] <Tm_T> and yay for some fixed dependencies!
[21:54]  * Riddell throws some GSoc points at apachelogger, JontheEchidna, promulo_ and excid3 
[21:54] <Riddell> would be lovely to have all four projects get accepted, we can but hope
[21:55] <JontheEchidna> suspense
[21:56] <excid3> we are going to be on the edge of our seats for like 2 weeks
[22:01] <excid3> Riddell, gotta run, but leave me a msg if you need anything more
[22:19] <ryanakca> Could someone help me figure out why Kobby 1.0~beta5-2 from the Debian archives runs beautifully on Debian unstable, while Kobby built from the same source package in a lucid chroot crashes like there's no tomorrow? It happens on both my own and my dad's computer.
[22:22] <ryanakca> You can get it built for lucid at http://dp.ryanak.ca/ubuntu/pool/main/k/kobby/kobby_1.0~beta5-2~ryan1_i386.deb (Only change in that package, compared to the Debian one, was to add a changelog entry with the ~ryan1 extension). You can dget the original source package from http://ftp.de.debian.org/debian/pool/main/k/kobby/kobby_1.0~beta5-2.dsc
[22:39] <JontheEchidna> ryanakca: works for me (tm): http://simplest-image-hosting.net/i0-plasma-desktoplw1635-jpg.jpg
[22:39] <JontheEchidna> I've never run kobby before, so maybe it's a stale config issue?
[22:39] <JontheEchidna> oh, it's not a crash on startup issue? Anything that I should do to trigger this?
[22:47] <ryanakca> JontheEchidna: install infinoted and then run 'infinoted --security-polity=no-tls'
[22:48] <ryanakca> JontheEchidna: It should crash instants after that. If not, try connecting to it, creating a file with contents, disconnecting, etc.
[22:48] <ryanakca> But here, it crashes instantly after starting infinoted.
[22:52] <JontheEchidna> I did get a crash after I tried to open an empty folder as a document ;)
[23:08] <mathiaz> ScottK: hi
[23:08] <ScottK> Hello mathiaz.
[23:08] <ScottK> apachelogger: mysql time.
[23:08] <mathiaz> it seems that there are some issue with akonadi and mysql
[23:08] <ScottK> mathiaz: apachelogger is the one that's got a plan.
[23:08] <Tm_T> yes?
[23:08] <mathiaz> is there a bug I can read up on?
[23:08] <mathiaz> apachelogger: great - could you outline what problem you're running into?
[23:09] <mathiaz> apachelogger: and then the solution?
[23:09] <Tm_T> he's been away 4 hours
[23:09] <ScottK> mathiaz: Channel logs ~8 hours ago has most of it (irclogs.ubuntu.com)
[23:09] <Tm_T> possibly sleeping
[23:10] <ScottK> Sorry to be vague, but I'm about to head out the door.
[23:10] <mathiaz> ScottK: ok - I'll have a look at it
[23:22] <ScottK> debfx: My workspace build finished, but I've got to go to the grocery store.  I'll test it later tonight and let you know.
[23:26] <mathiaz> apachelogger: ScottK: I have a magic diff that makes all necessary changes [15:06]
[23:26] <mathiaz> apachelogger: ^^ do you have the diff available somewhere for review?
[23:26] <ScottK> mathiaz: Unfortunately he didn't leave the details.  No.
[23:27] <ScottK> mathiaz: What's your schedule tomorrow?
[23:27] <mathiaz> ScottK: not sure yet - it's safe to assume I work on West Coast time
[23:28] <mathiaz> ScottK: I think apachelogger solution would be a good one
[23:28] <mathiaz> ScottK: just make sure that there aren't files lost when creating mysql-client-core-5.1
[23:29] <mathiaz> ScottK: ie make sure that all files that were part of mysql-client-5.1-5.1.41-3ubuntu11 are either part of mysql-client-5.1 or mysql-client-core-5.1 for the next upload
[23:30] <mathiaz> ScottK: and that the replaces are set correctly for both mysql-client and mysql-client-core
[23:30] <mathiaz> ScottK: to upgrade correctly from hardy as well (that uses mysql-client-5.0)
[23:30] <mathiaz> apachelogger: ^^
[23:30] <Tm_T> can we also accidentally replace it with postgresql?
[23:31] <mathiaz> ScottK: sorry - I realized that my feedback was better target at apachelogger than you
[23:31] <Tm_T> I'll get the coat
[23:32] <mathiaz> Tm_T: my naive POV: either sqlite or couchdb (the latter being used on the desktop nowdays in Ubuntu)
[23:32] <mathiaz> Tm_T: but that should be discussed with upstream
[23:32] <Tm_T> mathiaz: yeah, unfortunately sqlite is terrivly slow in some uses (:
[23:32] <Tm_T> anyway...
[23:32] <Tm_T> mathiaz: in what use is this anyway? (:
[23:33] <mathiaz> Tm_T: yeah - I'm not sure that storing 10000 contacts in a table is what makes sqlite slow
[23:34] <Tm_T> ...right, akonadi it was
[23:34] <Tm_T> my akonadi uses postgres
[23:35] <Tm_T> hmm, we'll see how it goes when I migrate all my mail to akonadi
[23:35] <Tm_T> that's a lot of data to be handled
[23:41]  * apachelogger blinks yawns and stretches
[23:41] <apachelogger> who summons me at this ungodly hour?
[23:41] <Tm_T> apachelogger: son
[23:41] <apachelogger> most ungodly I might say
[23:41] <apachelogger> Tm_T: yes, mom?
[23:42] <apachelogger> oh hai mathiaz o/
[23:42] <Tm_T> (:)
[23:43] <apachelogger> Tm_T: Dont use that face on me, it ain't gonna work!
[23:44] <amichair> one less bug on the most wanted list
[23:45]  * apachelogger falls over
[23:45]  * amichair picks apachelogger up
[23:45] <apachelogger> oh dear, now that INCOMING MESSAGE sound from it crowd is just unsuited for sms notification
[23:46] <apachelogger> mathiaz: http://people.ubuntu.com/~apachelogger/tmp/diff
[23:48] <mathiaz> apachelogger: Replaces: mysql-client-5.1 (<< 5.1.41-3ubuntu12)
[23:49] <mathiaz> apachelogger: ^^ that won't work for upgrade from hardy
[23:49] <apachelogger> stupid hardy
[23:49] <mathiaz> apachelogger: mysql was part of mysql-client-5.1
[23:49] <mathiaz> apachelogger: mysql was part of *mysql-client-5.0*
[23:50] <apachelogger> mathiaz: I suppose a Replaces: mysql-client-5.0, mysql-client-5.1 (<< 5.1.41-3ubuntu12) will suffice then?
[23:50] <mathiaz> apachelogger: it should
[23:50]  * apachelogger notes to better make an upgrade test run on this
[23:51] <mathiaz> apachelogger: yes - an complete upgrade test run on mysql-server, mysql-client installed from hardy
[23:51] <Tm_T> there's plenty of other problems too, I'm sure
[23:52] <apachelogger> oh and more work on gsoc proposal
[23:52] <apachelogger> so much to do in so little time ^^
[23:59] <apachelogger> mathiaz: thanks, if you are ok, then I'll upload sometime tomorrow (if test upgrade works out)