| humphreybc | hi all | 01:02 |
|---|---|---|
| * pleia2 waves to humphreybc | 01:13 | |
| humphreybc | ah! hi! | 01:14 |
| humphreybc | why am I getting an unexpected indent error? | 02:11 |
| humphreybc | http://paste.ubuntu.com/412854/ | 02:11 |
| humphreybc | wait what | 02:12 |
| humphreybc | weird | 02:12 |
| humphreybc | gedit is playing tricks on me | 02:12 |
| Red_HamsterX | I think you're supposed to be returning those values. | 02:19 |
| Red_HamsterX | Rather than printing them. | 02:19 |
| humphreybc | one of the reasons it wasn't working is because gedit is doing something weird with indentation | 02:19 |
| Red_HamsterX | Dut I dunno for sure. | 02:19 |
| Red_HamsterX | It looks like gedit is set to use tabs instead of spaces. | 02:19 |
| Red_HamsterX | Four spaces is the PEP 8 convention. | 02:20 |
| Red_HamsterX | You can quickly change this by clicking stuff in the lower right of the gedit window. | 02:20 |
| humphreybc | yeah | 02:21 |
| humphreybc | i found that | 02:21 |
| humphreybc | is there a more elegant way of doing the maximum function? | 02:21 |
| humphreybc | (this is practice for a lab test I have on wednesday) | 02:22 |
| Red_HamsterX | return max(a, b, ...) | 02:22 |
| Red_HamsterX | max takes any number of arguments or a sequence. | 02:22 |
| Red_HamsterX | x = (1, 2, 3,) | 02:22 |
| Red_HamsterX | max(x) | 02:22 |
| Red_HamsterX | max(888, 777) | 02:22 |
| Red_HamsterX | Also, you're using 'or' wrong. | 02:23 |
| humphreybc | i'm getting stuff like this | 02:24 |
| humphreybc | Expected: JimBob | 02:24 |
| humphreybc | Got: 'JimBob' | 02:24 |
| humphreybc | how can I return it without the single quotes? | 02:24 |
| Red_HamsterX | Paste your new code. | 02:24 |
| humphreybc | http://paste.ubuntu.com/412860/ | 02:25 |
| Red_HamsterX | Regarding using 'or' wrong: that should be 'a > b and a > c'. | 02:25 |
| Red_HamsterX | You need to do two tests, logically. | 02:25 |
| humphreybc | oh yeah, of course | 02:25 |
| Red_HamsterX | 'False or c' is valid, but it won't do what you expect. | 02:25 |
| Red_HamsterX | If c is non-zero, the entire condition will evaluate to whatever c happens to be. | 02:26 |
| godbyk | What's the point of writing your own maximum function if it just calls Python's built-in max() function? | 02:26 |
| humphreybc | so i'm getting two failures for the two string things | 02:26 |
| humphreybc | godbyk, it's just testing our knowledge of python stuff | 02:26 |
| Red_HamsterX | "False or 'dance'" -> 'dance' | 02:26 |
| godbyk | I see. | 02:26 |
| humphreybc | how can I return a string as string instead of 'string' ? | 02:26 |
| Red_HamsterX | It is being returned as a string. | 02:27 |
| Red_HamsterX | Does it pass if you do use print? | 02:27 |
| Red_HamsterX | Maybe the tester's watching stdout instead of return values. | 02:27 |
| * Red_HamsterX doesn't know. | 02:27 | |
| humphreybc | yeah | 02:27 |
| humphreybc | it does | 02:27 |
| Red_HamsterX | Then your instructor's weird. | 02:27 |
| humphreybc | well, the only goal of the test is to make the doctests pass... so all 10 passed | 02:27 |
| Red_HamsterX | Just print, in that case. | 02:27 |
| humphreybc | now, onto the next one | 02:27 |
| humphreybc | (there are 4) | 02:27 |
| humphreybc | :) | 02:28 |
| Red_HamsterX | Als, for is_divisible, you would just write 'return a % b == 0' or 'return not a % b'. | 02:28 |
| Red_HamsterX | you could* | 02:28 |
| humphreybc | i don't understand what I have to do for the first one, compare() | 02:29 |
| humphreybc | http://paste.ubuntu.com/412861/ | 02:29 |
| Red_HamsterX | The result of an == comparison is always a boolean value. | 02:29 |
| Red_HamsterX | If a > b: +1 | 02:29 |
| Red_HamsterX | If a < b: -1 | 02:29 |
| Red_HamsterX | Else: 0 | 02:29 |
| Red_HamsterX | Python has a built-in for this, too. | 02:29 |
| humphreybc | ah | 02:29 |
| humphreybc | oh it does? | 02:30 |
| Red_HamsterX | You can probably guess at what it is. | 02:30 |
| Red_HamsterX | Like max() or min(). | 02:30 |
| humphreybc | compare? | 02:30 |
| Red_HamsterX | dir() is your friend. | 02:30 |
| godbyk | You can write your own cmp functions for doing fancy comparisons. I've had to write them before. | 02:30 |
| Red_HamsterX | Learn to love it. | 02:30 |
| Red_HamsterX | Things surrounded by __s are often exposed through like-named language-level functions. | 02:31 |
| humphreybc | how to do the count_vowels function? something like 'if 'a' 'e' 'i' 'o' 'u' in count_vowels? | 02:34 |
| Red_HamsterX | There are a number of ways to do it. | 02:35 |
| Red_HamsterX | Look at what dir() has to say about a string. | 02:36 |
| Red_HamsterX | There's a better way to solve this problem, but I think your instructor would be suspicious if you were to use it. | 02:36 |
| Red_HamsterX | And you'd miss something important about Python's design if I were to just show you. | 02:37 |
| humphreybc | find? | 02:37 |
| Red_HamsterX | help(''.find) | 02:37 |
| Red_HamsterX | Does that look like what you want? | 02:37 |
| humphreybc | return sentence.find("a", "e", "i", "o", "u") | 02:38 |
| humphreybc | ? | 02:38 |
| Red_HamsterX | No, that won't pass the syntax compiler. | 02:39 |
| Red_HamsterX | And it's not what you want to do anyway. | 02:39 |
| Red_HamsterX | It'd fail the second test. And the others, for that matter. | 02:39 |
| Red_HamsterX | Look at the list of attributes attached to a string again. | 02:39 |
| humphreybc | ugh | 02:40 |
| humphreybc | okay | 02:40 |
| Red_HamsterX | I'm not going to just give you the answers. It's not like you have something due in a couple of hours, after all. | 02:41 |
| humphreybc | lol yeah | 02:41 |
| Red_HamsterX | When in doubt, try things in the interpreter. | 02:41 |
| Red_HamsterX | "test string".find('e') would give you 1, but "test string".find('i') would give you 8. | 02:42 |
| humphreybc | right | 02:42 |
| humphreybc | so it's returning the index | 02:42 |
| Red_HamsterX | Yeah. | 02:42 |
| Red_HamsterX | There's another function that'll help, though. | 02:42 |
| humphreybc | count | 02:43 |
| Red_HamsterX | Look at its help text and figure out how to apply it. | 02:43 |
| Red_HamsterX | help() renders the object's docstring. | 02:44 |
| Red_HamsterX | Just so you know where it's pulling that data from. | 02:44 |
| Red_HamsterX | The docstring is the unassigned string at the start of any function/class/whatever. | 02:45 |
| humphreybc | okay, so, on Hello World I ran sentence.count("o") and it returned 2 | 02:45 |
| humphreybc | so it's workiung | 02:45 |
| humphreybc | but then apparently it only takes at most 3 arguments | 02:45 |
| Red_HamsterX | It's morning in Austrailia/New Zealand, right? | 02:45 |
| humphreybc | 1:46pm | 02:46 |
| Red_HamsterX | Ah. Later than I thought. | 02:46 |
| humphreybc | so do I have to create a variable called "vowels" that's a list of the things I want to find? | 02:47 |
| humphreybc | and then run sentence.count(vowels) ? | 02:47 |
| Red_HamsterX | No. | 02:47 |
| Red_HamsterX | It doesn't work that way. | 02:47 |
| Red_HamsterX | You're going to have to call it five times. | 02:48 |
| Red_HamsterX | (Ten if you need to account for capitals and don't lowercase the string before scanning it) | 02:48 |
| humphreybc | okay | 02:48 |
| humphreybc | so firstly I should go sentence.lower() | 02:49 |
| humphreybc | I don't understand how I can call count 5 times, then add each return value together... do I have to assign each call of count to a different variable and then add them up, then return that value? | 02:50 |
| Red_HamsterX | You could. | 02:50 |
| humphreybc | or could you put all of that into one statement? | 02:50 |
| Red_HamsterX | Variables in Python are not immutable, as they are in math or languages like Haskell. | 02:51 |
| Red_HamsterX | You could do that, too. | 02:51 |
| Red_HamsterX | ''.count() + ''.count()... | 02:51 |
| Red_HamsterX | x = ''.count('a') | 02:51 |
| Red_HamsterX | x += ''.count('e') | 02:51 |
| Red_HamsterX | return x | 02:51 |
| Red_HamsterX | That's probably the cleanest way to write it. | 02:51 |
| Red_HamsterX | (Barring the advanced technique I mentioned before) | 02:52 |
| humphreybc | http://paste.ubuntu.com/412871/ | 02:52 |
| Red_HamsterX | You could return it directly, if you really wanted to save a line. | 02:53 |
| Red_HamsterX | But there's still a problem. | 02:53 |
| Red_HamsterX | sentence.lower() returns a new string. | 02:53 |
| Red_HamsterX | It doesn't modify sentence. | 02:53 |
| Red_HamsterX | Also, variable names like 'x' are icky. | 02:53 |
| humphreybc | so i have to assign it | 02:53 |
| humphreybc | sentence = sentence.lower() | 02:54 |
| humphreybc | return = sentence.count("a") + sentence.count("e") + sentence.count("i") + sentence.count("o") + sentence.count("u") | 02:54 |
| humphreybc | like that? | 02:54 |
| Red_HamsterX | You can assign it to 'sentence', but that's commonly frowned upon for non-trivial code. | 02:54 |
| Red_HamsterX | So it's a good habint to avoid. | 02:54 |
| humphreybc | right | 02:54 |
| Red_HamsterX | habit* | 02:54 |
| humphreybc | so assign it to say, S | 02:54 |
| humphreybc | and then run count on S | 02:54 |
| Red_HamsterX | Yeah, that works. | 02:54 |
| humphreybc | ok | 02:55 |
| Red_HamsterX | Don't try to show this to your instructor ('cause it'll be obvious you get help), but you could do the whole thing in one line. | 02:55 |
| humphreybc | k | 02:55 |
| Red_HamsterX | return len([v for v in sentence.lower() if v in ('a', 'e', 'i', 'o', 'u',)]) | 02:56 |
| Red_HamsterX | You'll figure out how it works eventually. | 02:56 |
| humphreybc | righto | 02:56 |
| humphreybc | okay i've got all the ones in this except the count_words() function | 02:57 |
| humphreybc | so I have to count something and make it split on a white space | 02:58 |
| Red_HamsterX | Look at the dir() result again. | 02:58 |
| Red_HamsterX | I assume you can consider all input sane. | 02:58 |
| Red_HamsterX | So you won't have tabs or non-space delimiters. | 02:58 |
| humphreybc | yeah | 02:58 |
| humphreybc | i've done something like this before | 03:00 |
| humphreybc | i'm just trying to find where | 03:00 |
| humphreybc | so I use split | 03:03 |
| humphreybc | but i don't understand how | 03:05 |
| humphreybc | i've got S = sentence.split() | 03:07 |
| humphreybc | then count(S) ? or S.count(S)? S.count() ? | 03:07 |
| Red_HamsterX | count() isn't what you want. | 03:10 |
| Red_HamsterX | help(len) | 03:10 |
| humphreybc | oh | 03:11 |
| humphreybc | that did it =] | 03:11 |
| Red_HamsterX | You might want to do sentence.strip().split(), just in case there's a leading or trailing space. | 03:11 |
| humphreybc | knowing the library of builtin functions is pretty helpful | 03:11 |
| Red_HamsterX | And actually iterate over the tokens to discard empty ones. | 03:12 |
| Red_HamsterX | But that's not necessary here. | 03:12 |
| humphreybc | right i'm going to get something to eat | 03:12 |
| humphreybc | then i'll start on part 3 | 03:12 |
| * humphreybc thinks that programming might not be for him | 03:12 | |
| Red_HamsterX | It's your first exposure. | 03:13 |
| Red_HamsterX | Most people find thinking in a C-like mindset hard to do initially. | 03:13 |
| Red_HamsterX | If you've got a math background, look into Haskell. | 03:13 |
| humphreybc | it's not the first time, i did PHP and HTML in high school, then last year I did java | 03:18 |
| humphreybc | i've never really been that good at it | 03:18 |
| humphreybc | i understand the logic but I can just never, ever remember syntax or methods of doing stuff | 03:18 |
| humphreybc | maybe as I write more stuff i'll | 03:19 |
| humphreybc | i'll remember the syntax better* | 03:19 |
| Red_HamsterX | The most meaningful advice I can give you about Python is probably that clarity is more important than efficiency. Most people who primarily use Python tend to adopt that mindset. | 04:18 |
| Red_HamsterX | When writing code, try to focus on making the logic obvious. | 04:18 |
| Red_HamsterX | That may help you to think things through and make it all easier to understand. | 04:19 |
| === quickshot is now known as ubuntujenkins | ||
| ubuntujenkins | morning all | 09:55 |
| === quickshot is now known as ubuntujenkins | ||
| * ubuntujenkins hates python when it doesn't work | 11:26 | |
| ubuntujenkins | back working in english and not siberian | 11:56 |
| ubuntujenkins | serbian or how ever it is spelt | 11:57 |
| ubuntujenkins | hello all | 17:41 |
| dutchie | o/ | 18:18 |
| dutchie | is there anything I ought to do before my battery dies? | 18:36 |
| ubuntujenkins | hello dutchie not as far as i know. You could reinvent the wheel if you have time :P | 18:50 |
| dutchie | hmm, 3 hours 25 and food in 10 mins | 18:51 |
| dutchie | I think not | 18:51 |
| ubuntujenkins | Red_HamsterX: ping | 19:22 |
| Red_HamsterX | Hi, ubuntujenkins. | 20:05 |
| ubuntujenkins | hello can you look over my last commit http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~quickshotdevs/quickshot/quickshot/revision/228 it works, I would just like you to see if i have done anything silly | 20:07 |
| ubuntujenkins | also there appears to be some progress on the bug i filed with python | 20:09 |
| Red_HamsterX | Setting the variable's value to 1 is unnecessary | 20:13 |
| Red_HamsterX | except ...: | 20:13 |
| Red_HamsterX | short_code = os.environ.get('LANG') | 20:13 |
| Red_HamsterX | if not short_code: raise (some custom error) | 20:14 |
| Red_HamsterX | Other than that, it should work. | 20:15 |
| popey | can someone get ben to ping me when he's online | 20:18 |
| ubuntujenkins | Red_HamsterX: well i couldn't get it to work this moring before i went out with out the =1 bit i will have a go again in a second if i ddin't | 20:23 |
| ubuntujenkins | popey: i will if i am still up | 20:23 |
| ubuntujenkins | brb changing language | 20:24 |
| * ubuntujenkins ubuntu serbian is intersting | 20:27 | |
| Red_HamsterX | Is it significantly different from, say, Russian? | 20:32 |
| * Red_HamsterX doesn't know anything about Serbian. | 20:32 | |
| ubuntujenkins | just the person with the code changed to | 20:32 |
| ubuntujenkins | 20:33 | |
| ubuntujenkins | try: | 20:33 |
| ubuntujenkins | short_code = locale.getdefaultlocale()[0] | 20:33 |
| ubuntujenkins | except ValueError, e: | 20:33 |
| ubuntujenkins | #error-log-write("Unable to process locale: %(error)s" % {'error': str(e)}) | 20:33 |
| ubuntujenkins | #this happens when the language code isn't in the module | 20:33 |
| ubuntujenkins | 20:33 | |
| ubuntujenkins | if not short_code: | 20:33 |
| ubuntujenkins | short_code = os.environ['LANG'] | 20:33 |
| ubuntujenkins | applied_short_code = short_code | 20:33 |
| ubuntujenkins | I get an indentaion error i changed the location of the not and removed one line .not my day as usual | 20:33 |
| ubuntujenkins | i haven't looked at russian I just navigate by knowing where to find stuff | 20:36 |
| ubuntujenkins | aaahhh spotted the indentaion error but now i get UnboundLocalError: local variable 'short_code' referenced before assignment | 20:45 |
| ubuntujenkins | i had this this morning which is why the short_code = 1 was there | 20:47 |
| ubuntujenkins | Red_HamsterX: sorry please can you help me | 20:51 |
| Red_HamsterX | Sure. | 20:57 |
| Red_HamsterX | Is the code current or can you paste the function? | 20:57 |
| ubuntujenkins | Red_HamsterX: let me paste it | 20:59 |
| ubuntujenkins | try: | 20:59 |
| ubuntujenkins | short_code = locale.getdefaultlocale()[0] | 20:59 |
| ubuntujenkins | except ValueError, e: | 20:59 |
| ubuntujenkins | logging.getLogger().debug("Unable to process locale: %(error)s" % {'error': str(e)}) | 20:59 |
| ubuntujenkins | #this happens when the language code isn't in the module | 20:59 |
| ubuntujenkins | #short_code = 1 | 20:59 |
| ubuntujenkins | if not short_code: | 20:59 |
| ubuntujenkins | short_code = os.environ['LANG'] | 20:59 |
| ubuntujenkins | applied_short_code = short_code | 20:59 |
| ubuntujenkins | http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/ZpWtZE8opJ | 21:00 |
| * ubuntujenkins etherpad should do python highlighting | 21:02 | |
| Daviey | ubuntujenkins: raise a bug :) | 21:02 |
| ubuntujenkins | Daviey: where do i file it? | 21:02 |
| ubuntujenkins | and against what ubuntu uk team? | 21:02 |
| Red_HamsterX | ubuntujenkins, the problem is that the 'if' occurs before the short code is assigned. | 21:13 |
| ubuntujenkins | thats why i have short_code =1 | 21:13 |
| Red_HamsterX | When the assignment fails, short_code isn't left in some half-declared state. | 21:13 |
| Red_HamsterX | You can assume it was never set when entering the exception handler. | 21:13 |
| Red_HamsterX | So just drop the 'if' entirely. | 21:13 |
| Daviey | ubuntujenkins: will talk later, recording a podcast atm | 21:14 |
| Daviey | and humphreybc is supposed to be our guest | 21:14 |
| Daviey | but he's offline :( | 21:14 |
| ubuntujenkins | ok Daviey have fun | 21:14 |
| ubuntujenkins | thnaks Red_HamsterX that makes sense obvious as usual | 21:15 |
| Red_HamsterX | ubuntujenkins, the error is raised by the call to getdefaultlocale(). Since that fails, nothing is actually returned, so Python jumps directly to the exception handler, bypassing the assignment step entirely. | 21:15 |
| * Red_HamsterX goes into way too much detail. | 21:15 | |
| ubuntujenkins | and as the variable is not assigned the if test isn't needed. | 21:16 |
| Red_HamsterX | Yep. | 21:16 |
| ubuntujenkins | detail is good helps me to understand | 21:16 |
| Red_HamsterX | Python, unlike, say, Java, uses something very much like a dict to manage variables. | 21:16 |
| ubuntujenkins | thanks, i will do a release tonight to the ppas, and upload a cd tomorrow | 21:16 |
| Red_HamsterX | You could think of each assignment like the following: | 21:16 |
| Red_HamsterX | object = {} | 21:16 |
| Red_HamsterX | #Assign to 'short_code': | 21:17 |
| Red_HamsterX | object['short_code'] = 5 | 21:17 |
| Red_HamsterX | The dictionary has no value for the key until it's actually set. | 21:17 |
| ubuntujenkins | ok makes sense thank you | 21:18 |
| ubuntujenkins | dutchie: !!! | 21:21 |
| * ubuntujenkins hopes dutchies battery hasn't died | 21:22 | |
| Daviey | anyone know where humphreybc is? | 21:33 |
| ubuntujenkins | Daviey: I am keeping an eye on facebook to see if he comes on, i will shout at him if i see him | 21:34 |
| ubuntujenkins | Daviey: he could have got daylight savings utc an gmt messed up | 21:34 |
| Daviey | ubuntujenkins: thanks | 21:54 |
| * ubuntujenkins has found someone else who has the same locale big we have :-) | 22:12 | |
| ubuntujenkins | *big | 22:12 |
| ubuntujenkins | ***bug | 22:12 |
| ubuntujenkins | brb swapping to english | 22:16 |
| Red_HamsterX | English is overrated. | 22:19 |
| Red_HamsterX | Needs more Turkish. | 22:19 |
| ubuntujenkins | its easier to use rather than navigating by memory or icons | 22:19 |
| ubuntujenkins | night all | 23:01 |
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