[00:57] <rickspencer3> Hi TheMuso, nice break in the weather, huh?
[00:57] <rickspencer3> I guess since it's warming up here it must be cooling down for you
[01:00] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: Indeed, and I am looking forward to it.
[01:00] <rickspencer3> right
[01:00] <TheMuso> There is nothign better than a cool fresh morning for exercise.
[01:00] <rickspencer3> because it cools down for you to what i heats up to for us in Seattle
[01:00] <rickspencer3>  ;)
[01:01] <TheMuso> heh
[01:02] <rickspencer3> break time for me
[01:02] <RAOF> I'm looking forward to some properly cold winter.
[01:02] <rickspencer3> be back later for some hacking
[01:02] <RAOF> Frost and such.
[01:03] <TheMuso> RAOF: Yeah that is nice. When I lived on the mountains, winter quite often like that.
[01:03] <TheMuso> Sometimes the temperature in a day didn't get above 5 degrees.
[01:04] <RAOF> It makes hot showers that much more satisfying!
[01:13] <TheMuso> RAOF: yeah that too.
[01:23] <TheMuso> bryceh, RAOF, we can now reinstate nouveau package as a dep of xorg for powerpc. The kernel has the drm module, and users say it works, and there is room on the disks.
[01:23] <RAOF> Hurray!
[01:29] <bryceh> TheMuso, nice
[07:28] <baptistemm> bonjour
[07:34] <pitti> Good morning
[07:37] <czajkowski> aloha
[07:50] <seb128> hey desktopers
[07:50] <pitti> bonjour seb128
[07:50] <pitti> bonjour baptistemm
[07:50] <pitti> hey czajkowski
[07:51] <seb128> guten tag piti
[07:51] <seb128> pitti even
[07:51] <seb128> session restart brb
[07:52] <seb128> re
[07:52] <czajkowski> ara: do you know of a bug that has been logged where the rows for your other desktops are now in a column all squsihed up in your bottom panel ?
[07:53] <seb128> pitti, I've an appointement in half an hour so don't worry if I'm not around until 10:30
[07:53] <ara> czajkowski, no
[07:53] <pitti> seb128: and I was just going to get the whip out to make you fix bugs even faster!
[07:53]  * pitti hugs seb128
[07:53]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[07:54] <seb128> pitti, can I recommend using the whip on robert_ancell while I'm not there? ;-)
[07:54] <pitti> oh, hey robert_ancell, how are you?
[07:54] <seb128> robert_ancell, sorry could not resist seeing you are still around :p
[07:54] <seb128> robert_ancell, hey btw ;-)
[07:54] <seb128> how are you?
[07:55]  * ccheney should probably go to bed, so he can be up in the morning, heh
[07:57] <robert_ancell> loosing my mind trying to track down this gdm bug...
[07:58] <pitti> ccheney: sleep well!
[07:58] <pitti> seb128: phew, lucid retracers are finally tame
[07:59] <seb128> pitti, nice!
[07:59] <seb128> ok, I've to run
[07:59] <seb128> be back in 1.5h
[08:01]  * ccheney has OOo ready except for waiting on ARM patch from NCommander and finishing the oracle copyright L10n stuff
[08:12] <didrocks> good morning
[08:22] <pitti> hey didrocks, how are you?
[08:25] <pitti> robert_ancell: does the design team actually know about reviewing simple-scan? (it's one of the three last WIs for lucid)
[08:25] <didrocks> pitti: I'm good, thanks. Trying to enjoy some nice walk in the early morning :)
[08:25] <didrocks> pitti: and you?
[08:25] <pitti> robert_ancell: but since it's quite independent from the release cycle, I'm also happy to postpone it
[08:25] <pitti> didrocks: oh, yay for fresh air :) I'm great, thanks
[08:28]  * didrocks just killed the first troll of the day in the ubuntu-fr forum. Can work now :)
[08:29] <baptistemm> hi pitti, seb128, didrocks robert_ancell & others :)
[08:29] <didrocks> hey baptistemm, how are you?
[08:30] <robert_ancell> pitti, I'd just postpone/cancel it.  I asked Ivanka/Ayatana a while ago but they didn't seem interested/had time
[08:30] <robert_ancell> (in anycase it is too late for any UI changes)
[08:30] <baptistemm> well, I motivated to improve the bluetooth stack for ubuntu
[08:30] <baptistemm> but my day-to-day job is deceiving me in some parts
[08:34] <pitti> robert_ancell: ack
[08:37] <didrocks> baptistemm: what do you work on at orange?
[08:43] <baptistemm> didrocks, on the applicative side of the system, I do my best to integrate applications from developpers
[08:44] <didrocks> baptistemm: oh, I know someone who is doing the same for sfr :)
[08:44] <baptistemm> I manage the servers which provide the answers from the search engine
[08:44] <baptistemm> http://www.lemoteur.fr/S/voila?profil=lemoteur&bhv=web_fr&rtype=kw&rdata=ubuntu
[08:45] <baptistemm> mind the wornderful url :/
[08:45] <didrocks> baptistemm: do you have a lot of requests in those internal search engine? I always wonders if people are using this…
[08:46] <baptistemm> lot of orange.fr subcribers I guess
[08:46] <didrocks> oki
[10:02] <chrisccoulson_> good morning everyone
[10:03] <pitti> hey chrisccoulson_
[10:03] <chrisccoulson_> hey pitti, how are you?
[10:05] <didrocks> hey chrisccoulson_
[10:05] <chrisccoulson_> hey didrocks_
[10:05] <chrisccoulson_> **didrocks
[10:06] <didrocks> No, I'm not a pointer :p
[10:06] <chrisccoulson_> lol
[10:06] <chrisccoulson_> you're a pointer to an array ;)
[10:06] <chrisccoulson_> how are you anyway?
[10:09] <chrisccoulson_> does anyone want to update epiphany to 2.30?
[10:10] <seb128> re
[10:10] <chrisccoulson_> hey seb128, how are you?
[10:10] <didrocks> chrisccoulson_: I'm fine, thanks, you? ;)
[10:11] <seb128> why doctors always have to be late
[10:11] <seb128> hey chrisccoulson_, didrocks
[10:11] <seb128> chrisccoulson_, I'm good thanks
[10:11] <didrocks> hey seb128
[10:11] <seb128> epiphany -> can't we sync from debian?
[10:11] <chrisccoulson_> didrocks - yeah, good thanks. it's nice and sunny outside today :)
[10:11] <chrisccoulson_> seb128 - we can, would you be able to do that?
[10:12] <chrisccoulson_> (we won't be able to sync once i've changed the search URL though :( )
[10:12] <seb128> I can do that but if you have a change to do just take the debian version do it and upload
[10:12] <chrisccoulson_> heh, yeah, that would make more sense actually ;)
[10:12]  * chrisccoulson_ needs more coffee
[10:13] <seb128> lol
[10:13] <seb128> coffee!
[10:14] <didrocks> it seems that seb128 has some keyword, like "coffee", "lunch" which makes him react :)
[10:14] <chrisccoulson_> heh
[10:14] <seb128> didrocks, you know me!
[10:15] <didrocks> heh
[10:16] <seb128> didrocks, I see that now that you are done with the trial period you start showing less respect to people there :p
[10:16] <didrocks> oh! nothing related :p
[10:17] <james_w> hello desktop team
[10:18] <RAOF> Hell, bzr hero.
[10:18] <seb128> hey james_w
[10:18] <seb128> how are you?
[10:18] <didrocks> hey james_w
[10:18] <chrisccoulson_> hey james_w
[10:18] <chrisccoulson_> hey RAOF
[10:18] <seb128> RAOF, hey, did you have a fix for f-spot export to directory crashing?
[10:18] <james_w> seb128: good thanks, you?
[10:18] <seb128> RAOF, did you get that in lucid?
[10:18] <seb128> james_w, I'm good thanks
[10:18] <RAOF> seb128: Yes, and yes.
[10:19] <seb128> RAOF, ok, I read a similar bug report yesterday so I was wondering
[10:19] <seb128> it's probably a different issue
[10:19] <RAOF> It might be the same one; I only uploaded today.
[10:19] <seb128> oh ok
[10:19] <seb128> I didn't read emails from the night yet
[10:19] <RAOF> Why does git suck so hard?!@
[10:24] <chrisccoulson_> hmmm, i've got no idea where epiphany is getting it's default search URL from :-/
[10:26] <seb128> you can ask on irc.gnome.org #epiphany
[10:26] <seb128> they are nicely and reply to questions usually
[10:27] <chrisccoulson_> seb128 - thanks, i will try on there
[10:37] <seb128> TheMuso, hey, do you know if there is any reason why onboard entries are not masked by default in lucid?
[10:47] <seb128> tseliot, hi
[10:47] <tseliot> hi seb128
[10:47] <seb128> tseliot, bug #553200 seems an annoying one
[10:47] <tseliot> let me check
[10:47] <seb128> tseliot, not sure if it's a known issue?
[10:51] <tseliot> seb128: to be honest, I'm not really sure about what's happening. I can ask Nvidia
[10:52] <seb128> tseliot, ok, I just wanted to make sure you know about it since it seems to affect quite some users
[10:53] <seb128> tseliot, if you could ask for some details on the bug if extra infos would be useful or ask nvidia that would be nice
[10:53] <seb128> tseliot, just at least to let those users know that somebody is looking at the issue
[10:54] <tseliot> seb128: thanks for bringing this to my attention. I think the nvidia-bug-report.log that one user attached should be enough but I'll let you know if upstream needs something more
[10:54] <seb128> tseliot, thanks!
[10:54] <tseliot> and of course I'll deal with this bug report too ;)
[10:54] <seb128> thanks ;-)
[10:55] <chrisccoulson> fantastic, Xorg crashes when i switched to the guest session
[10:55] <tseliot> chrisccoulson: with what driver?
[10:56] <chrisccoulson> tseliot, intel
[10:56] <tseliot> ouch
[10:57] <tseliot> did you get a backtrace in the log?
[10:57]  * hyperair wonders what happened to the flying toasters screensaver from ages back
[10:57] <chrisccoulson> tseliot - there's no trace, but there is this:
[10:57] <chrisccoulson> Failed to submit batchbuffer: Bad file descriptor
[10:57] <hyperair> oh nevermind, it's still around
[10:58] <andreasn> mpt, are you looking for more bluetooth stories?
[10:59] <tseliot> chrisccoulson: I think "Failed to submit batchbuffer" is a known issue
[11:00] <mpt> andreasn, sure, reply to ayatana@ or the OMG Ubuntu discussion or the Ubuntu Forums thread, whichever's most convenient
[11:00] <andreasn> all right
[11:00] <baptistemm> andreasn, what is you problem with blueooth?
[11:01] <andreasn> baptistemm, none at all. It works great
[11:01] <chrisccoulson> tseliot, yeah, i think i recall that too
[11:01] <andreasn> baptistemm, but mpt wanted feedback on what bluetooth devices people use and how they use the bluetooth panel menu
[11:01]  * tseliot nods
[11:01] <andreasn> baptistemm, so I thought I might as well provide some data
[11:02] <baptistemm> I be interested to have a set of reliable  people with various bluetooth devices that could give me feedback for each bluetooth upgrade
[11:02] <baptistemm> :)
[11:03] <baptistemm> I just own a phone and a audio gateway, so It's hard to test
[11:03] <andreasn> I own a phone, a headset and a wacom tablet
[11:04] <baptistemm> ohwwwww
[11:05] <baptistemm> andreasn, what version are you running?
[11:06] <baptistemm> of ubuntu I meant
[11:06] <andreasn> of ubuntu? the current stable one. The Koala?
[11:06] <baptistemm> okay
[11:06] <seb128> baptistemm, I can do bluetooth testing too
[11:06] <seb128> I've some devices
[11:08] <andreasn> baptistemm, I would be more than happy to help you out
[11:13] <baptistemm> hmm, my X seesion crashed, nice
[11:14] <baptistemm> I guess something in the nvidia driver went wrong
[11:14] <baptistemm> seb128, okay I'll ping next time to provide feedback :)
[11:16] <TheMuso> seb128: No I don't, other than someone requested that they be shown. I would have to check the changelogs/bugs to be sure.
[11:18] <baptistemm> is Steve Kowalik comes here? he is administrator of ~bluetooth but seems he didn't response to membership approval request
[11:24] <chrisccoulson> ok, i'm officially confused about where epiphany is getting it's search URL from :-/
[11:24] <chrisccoulson> asac - any ideas?
[11:30] <seb128> TheMuso, it's adding a category do you think we should keep those or comment them back as there were?
[11:31] <baptistemm> chrisccoulson, If I refer to an old epi bug, I would say embed/ephy-web-view.c
[11:32] <baptistemm> chrisccoulson, effective_url = g_strdup_printf (_("http://www.google.com/search?q=%s&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8"), url);
[11:32] <baptistemm> chrisccoulson, http://git.gnome.org/browse/epiphany/tree/embed/ephy-web-view.c#n2031
[11:33] <chrisccoulson> baptistemm, thanks. the bit that confuses me is the URL ends up with a load of extra fields, and i don't know where they come from
[11:33] <chrisccoulson> eg, client=safari
[11:34] <baptistemm> libsoup?
[11:35] <baptistemm> chrisccoulson, ah it can be set in gconf too, there is a "url_search = eel_gconf_get_string (CONF_URL_SEARCH);"
[11:35] <chrisccoulson> yeah, i'm wondering if i can override it
[11:35] <chrisccoulson> one second
[11:35] <TheMuso> seb128: I think we need to have all a11y tools behaving the same in terms of visibility of icons in the menu. I'll have a look tomorrow, and change it if there wasn't a good reason given somewhere as to why they are visible.
[11:35] <seb128> TheMuso, ok thanks
[11:36] <chrisccoulson> baptistemm - ok, overriding it in gconf works. i'd still like to try and figure out where it's getting client=safari from though
[11:37] <seb128> you might want to follow up in #epiphany about that too
[11:37] <seb128> though some of the main hackers are not online right now
[11:37] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - yeah, i tried asking in there
[11:38] <seb128> if it's only a gconf key to set we might want to set it in a different source
[11:38] <seb128> ie ubuntu-artwork
[11:38] <seb128> so we can keep epiphany-webkit in sync
[11:38] <seb128> I think that's what we do now for the default webpage
[11:38] <chrisccoulson> yeah, possibly. i don't mind
[11:44] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - am i ok to just go ahead and upload ubuntu-artwork with the change? (i just checked, and we are setting the default homepage there too)
[11:45] <seb128> I think it's maintained by the artwork team in bzr so maybe let them know that you uploaded if you don't have write access there but yeah you can upload otherwise
[11:50] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - oh, i need to change epiphany anyway, as there is a bookmark URL in default-bookmarks.rdf that i need to change too
[11:53] <seb128> chrisccoulson, ok
[11:55] <seb128> ara, hey, I commented on your wikipage now
[11:56] <ara> seb128, thanks!
[11:56] <seb128> np!
[12:01] <vish> seb128: hi.. could you do an update for humanity?  lp:~ubuntu-art-pkg/humanity/release
[12:02] <seb128> vish, hi, ok, will do
[12:02] <vish> seb128: thanks...
[12:02] <vish> hopefully the last, if the design team doesnt change their minds again ;p
[12:02] <seb128> you're welcome
[12:14] <seb128> didrocks, still editing the wiki? your lock expired
[12:14] <seb128> didrocks, ie can I do my changes now?
[12:14] <didrocks> seb128: sorry, I didn't release it, you can do your changes
[12:14] <seb128> thanks
[12:15] <didrocks> seb128: I was thinking I had the time to finish it, but of course, had been sidetrack ;)
[12:17] <seb128> didrocks, I copied my changes so you can edit it again if needed ;-)
[12:17] <didrocks> seb128: thanks :)
[12:17] <seb128> you're welcome
[12:18] <seb128> pitti, there? I would like to discuss updated your libproxy version
[12:18] <seb128> pitti, it's quite a late change and the update is non trivial but the version we have is year old, buggy and not used by lot of components
[12:44] <pitti> hi seb128
[12:44] <pitti> seb128: (sorry, knee-deep in CD troubles)
[12:44] <pitti> seb128: "my" libproxy version?
[12:45] <pitti> seb128: in fact, it seems that the only rdepends is libsoup-gnome2.4-1?
[12:45] <seb128> pitti, our
[12:45] <seb128> pitti, right
[12:45] <pitti> this is used by a lot of packages, though
[12:50] <seb128> pitti, well lot of those don't use a soup_proxy though
[12:50] <seb128> pitti, and the new libproxy is in debian testing and fedora
[12:50] <seb128> pitti, upstream consider the lucid one so outdated and buggy that it can't be used
[12:50] <pitti> seb128: do we need it for somethign in particular?
[12:51] <seb128> pitti, telepathy crashes with ours, gwibber doesn't work
[12:51] <pitti> that seems like a good reason
[12:51] <seb128> pitti, telepathy-butterfly crashes when trying to use proxies with our version
[12:51] <seb128> and gwibber just don't work with proxy right now in lucid because it requires a newer version
[12:52] <pitti> seb128: do we have bugs about it? i. e. people we can ask to test a new version in lucid?
[12:52] <pitti> seb128: it seems okay to me to upgrade
[12:52] <seb128> pitti, not really, we don't turn those options on due to this
[12:52] <seb128> pitti, should I do the update in the ubuntu-desktop ppa?
[12:52] <pitti> ah
[12:52] <seb128> we can ask during the meeting today to have everybody to install the update
[12:53] <seb128> and upload to lucid tomorrow if nothing breaks?
[12:53] <pitti> seb128: does it change ABI/API?
[12:53] <seb128> no
[12:53] <pitti> seb128: I think upload it right away then
[12:53] <seb128> ok thanks
[12:53] <pitti> seb128: and perhaps put proxy-enabled telepathy/gwibber into desktop PPA and ask folks to test?
[12:54] <seb128> seems a good plan, will do that
[12:54] <seb128> I want to get the lib updated at least
[12:54] <seb128> will make easier to have things built on lucid which all proxy use
[12:54] <seb128> even if those changes don't land in lucid
[12:54] <seb128> it will make backports easier
[12:54] <pitti> right
[12:54] <seb128> we will just have to backport softwares
[12:54] <seb128> not system libraries
[12:55] <seb128> pitti, thanks
[12:56] <staz> seb128: the problem is that it doesn't crash when it try to use proxy, it crash immediatly when trying to connect if python-libproxy is installed
[12:57] <seb128> staz, well, still a good reason to have that fixed no? ;-)
[12:57] <staz> an even better reason to get it fixed I would say :)
[12:57] <seb128> staz, we just agreed on doing the update so it's all good
[12:57] <seb128> staz, right ;-)
[12:57] <staz> cool
[12:58] <baptistemm> seb128, papyon update from yesterday fixed the telepathy-butterfly crashing bug at start of empathy
[12:59] <seb128> baptistemm, excellent!
[12:59] <seb128> baptistemm, thanks for testing
[12:59] <baptistemm> you're welcome
[13:00] <baptistemm> nice this bug doesn't bother me anymore :
[13:00] <baptistemm> :)
[13:00] <seb128> pitti, you don't know how the default dictionnary is defined by any chance?
[13:01] <pitti> seb128: uh, I'm sorry, no
[13:02] <seb128> pitti, that's ok, I figured I would ask in case ;-) french installations have english and french listed with english activated there
[13:02] <seb128> let's debug
[13:02] <seb128> pitti, did you notice bug #559894 btw?
[13:03] <seb128> pedro_, hey
[13:03] <pedro_> salut seb128
[13:05] <staz> baptistemm: you had the on_error bug?
[13:05] <pitti> seb128: hm, I seldomly write German text these days.. I can try
[13:05]  * pitti grabs some lunch first, though
[13:06] <seb128> pitti, enjoy!
[13:11] <seb128> ok, found the french default dictionnary issue + why French is not in the list
[13:13] <didrocks> seb128: sweet! where is it defined? :)
[13:13] <seb128> didrocks, ls /usr/share/myspell/dicts
[13:13] <seb128> there is no fr_FR
[13:14] <seb128> didrocks, it uses the locale and look for a matching dictionnary there
[13:14] <didrocks> oh, ok, hence the fact it reverts to default
[13:16] <seb128> yes, it doesn't find a matching one
[13:17] <didrocks> so, hunspell-fr will get bigger (not sure it's on the CD)
[13:17] <didrocks> no, not seeded
[13:18] <didrocks> oh, it's just a symlink
[13:18] <seb128> didrocks, yes, they are installed in the huspell dir
[13:18] <seb128> hunspell
[13:19] <didrocks> good catch :)
[13:27] <baptistemm> staz, on_error bug ?
[13:28] <andreasn> baptistemm, the wiimote is a bluetooth device as well, right? I have one of those too.
[13:28] <seb128> baptistemm, the crash you were having, the stacktrace
[13:29] <baptistemm> andreasn, yep it is
[13:29] <james_w> seb128: have a problem with me uploading this gnome-settings-daemon CRTC fix?
[13:29] <baptistemm> andreasn, but I doubt you can do something useful with it :)
[13:29] <james_w> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~chasedouglas/ubuntu/lucid/gnome-settings-daemon/CRTC-fix/+merge/22699
[13:30] <andreasn> baptistemm, there is a library to use it I think, I was able to use it as a remote control
[13:30] <seb128> james_w, no, quite the contrary, it's on my "list of things to look at before lucid" but the said list is a busy one so I welcome those who help there ;-)
[13:30] <seb128> james_w, thanks!
[13:30] <baptistemm> andreasn, ah nice
[13:31] <james_w> seb128: well, I'm just building to test it, so I'm happy to take care of it. I'm also subscribed to bugs so I'll look out for regression reports.
[13:31] <seb128> james_w, excellent, thank you
[13:32] <james_w> seb128: has he sent it upstream do you know?
[13:32] <staz> baptistemm: your butterfly bug
[13:33] <james_w> ah, yes, but no review yet
[13:57] <chrisccoulson> pitti - would you mind processing another removal for me please? (bug 562263)
[14:00] <pitti> chrisccoulson: should I blacklist it, or should we wait on Debian to get it fixed (and thus synced into maverick) or removed? (I'd recommend the latter for now)
[14:01] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i'd probably go for blacklisting it actually, as it's likely to be difficult to maintain in stable releases anyway
[14:02] <pitti> chrisccoulson: ok, will do; can't remove packages right now, some other archive admin is currently running lp-remove-package.py
[14:02] <pitti> presumably Riddell
[14:02] <chrisccoulson> pitti - ok, no worries. thanks
[14:18] <pitti> chrisccoulson: done
[14:19] <chrisccoulson> pitti - excellent, thanks
[14:22] <rickspencer3> that's a nice thing to see when first joining the channel in the morning ;)
[14:23] <chrisccoulson> hi rickspencer3
[14:23] <rickspencer3> good morning chrisccoulson
[14:23] <didrocks> hey rickspencer3
[14:23] <rickspencer3> hi didrocks
[14:24] <rickspencer3> hey! robert_ancell fixed bug #532531 ?
[14:25] <didrocks> oh it's fixed? last time he told it was driving him mad
[14:26] <seb128> hey rickspencer3
[14:26] <rickspencer3> hi seb128
[14:26]  * rickspencer3 cheers for robert_ancell
[14:26] <seb128> didrocks, he apparently defeated it though ;-)
[14:27] <seb128> robert_ancell rocks
[14:27] <seb128> when do we get it back? around UDS?
[14:27] <seb128> it -> him
[14:27] <seb128> doh ;-)
[14:27] <didrocks> that really rocks :)
[14:28] <rickspencer3> seb128, yes, for UDS
[14:28] <pitti> hey rickspencer3
[14:28] <rickspencer3> good afternoon pitti
[14:28] <pitti> rickspencer3, seb128: You'll kill me in a second, but I'm afraid I can't attend the meeting today :-(
[14:29] <seb128> pitti, why should I be angry at not having our tech lead cracking the whip on us? ;-)
[14:29] <rickspencer3> pitti, what happened? working for OEM Services already?
[14:29] <rickspencer3> :)
[14:30]  * seb128 still needs to collect blueprints people registered before meeting, just though about that now
[14:30] <pitti> rickspencer3: no, family desperately wanting to see us again before my wife moves to Munich and I disappear for three weeks (Munich/Belgium)
[14:30] <rickspencer3> pitti, that sounds good
[14:30] <pitti> rickspencer3: I'll update DesktopTeam/ReleaseStatus by the meeting; do you need anything else from me?
[14:31] <pitti> rickspencer3: I didn't prepare a BP list, since I won't be in the desktop team anyway
[14:31] <rickspencer3> pitti, no, you should enjoy your family time while you have the chance
[14:31] <rickspencer3> pitti, right, no blueprints from pitti
[14:31] <rickspencer3> pitti,  I was thinking about the work item tracker though
[14:31]  * pitti untargets desktop-maverick-getting-rid-of-gnome then
[14:31] <rickspencer3> do we need to hand that off for Lucid?
[14:31] <kenvandine> hehe
[14:31] <rickspencer3> I mean maverick
[14:31] <rickspencer3> * pitti untargets desktop-maverick-getting-rid-of-gnome then
[14:31] <rickspencer3> hehe
[14:31] <pitti> rickspencer3: I'm fine with keeping an eye on it
[14:32] <rickspencer3> thanks pitti, I was hoping you would say that
[14:32] <pitti> rickspencer3: the bulk of the work was done during lucid
[14:32] <pitti> now it's just guiding people to set it up, etc.
[14:32] <rickspencer3> pitti, but I'm a manager, of course I'll ask you for 1,000 "easy" changes
[14:32] <rickspencer3> and then ask why you didn't your normal work done later
[14:33] <pitti> rickspencer3: I'll just have to convince Pat that they won't get ANYTHING done in OEM unless/until they start using the WI tracker
[14:33] <rickspencer3> and then say "you should have worked smarter, not harder"
[14:33] <rickspencer3> hehe
[14:36] <pitti> ok, udev upload take 2938432; /me crosses fingers that people stop complaining about broken CD handling now
[14:39] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, hi
[14:39] <rickspencer3> chad seemed pretty confident he had tackled the worst of those desktopcouch crashers
[14:39] <rickspencer3> what do you think?
[14:40] <rickspencer3> seb128, this crash: python2.6 crashed with SIGSEGV in gtk_text_layout_get_line_display()
[14:40] <rickspencer3> probably shouldn't put the bug report in the Python package but rather some gtk package, right?
[14:41] <seb128> rickspencer3, it's likely an app, pygtk or gtk bug yes
[14:41] <rickspencer3> hmmm
[14:41] <seb128> hard to say without a testcase or a valgrind log
[14:41] <rickspencer3> seb128, well, one of my apps crashed
[14:41] <seb128> pygtk tend to not be very pythonish and not raise exception as it should but crash on wrong use
[14:41] <rickspencer3> shall I not log the bug and see if it happens again?
[14:42] <seb128> rickspencer3, log the bug in any case, I'm just saying that it's hard to know exactly where is the issue for those bugs from a stacktrace though, still a bug ;-)
[14:42] <seb128> rickspencer3, select pygtk to file it, it's a good default
[14:42] <rickspencer3> k
[14:42] <seb128> rickspencer3, then we can try to figure if it's really pygtk to blame
[15:02] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, did you test his package?
[15:02] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, no
[15:03] <rickspencer3> I didn't have time, and it looked like a lot of feedback
[15:03] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, i hadn't been able to reproduce any of those crashers, so i am not a good test case
[15:03] <rickspencer3> and then I read chad's email
[15:03] <rickspencer3> it looked like he was planning to land two changes in Lucid last night
[15:05] <kenvandine> he didn't yet, but i hope today
[15:41] <kenvandine> hey seb128, how would you feel about bumping libproxy to 0.4.0?
[15:41] <seb128> kenvandine, not sure, they changed the soname and they claim they didn't break abi so I don't understand why
[15:41] <kenvandine> upstream recommended that, and i think that is what is needed to use proxies with https
[15:41] <seb128> I've commented on the launchpad wishlist about that
[15:41] <kenvandine> yeah, i asked that question and they didn't really answer it
[15:41] <kenvandine> ok
[15:42] <seb128> well I don't think we should take a soname change before lucid now if we don't know why they did it
[15:42] <kenvandine> i am pretty sure proxies on https doesn't work in 0.3.1
[15:42] <kenvandine> i'll try to get more info
[15:42] <seb128> upstream often recommends to take the newest crack, it doesn't mean that's the best choice for us ;-)
[15:42] <kenvandine> agreed :)
[15:42] <seb128> you are welcome to do the 0.4 upgrade in a ppa for example to get it tested
[15:43] <kenvandine> just they said that is what we needed for proxies over https, which many people use
[15:43] <seb128> and if you try to figure why they changed the soname if they didn't break abi that would be nice
[15:50] <kenvandine> seb128, ok, he bumped soname because px_proxy_factory_get_proxies() can now return NULL
[15:50] <seb128> that doesn't seem to be an ABI change...
[15:51] <kenvandine> yeah, he was unsure so bumped it just in case
[15:51] <seb128> bah
[15:51] <seb128> ok
[15:51] <seb128> can you do the new version update and test it?
[15:51] <seb128> it's less of a change now that we have 0.3.1 ;-)
[15:51] <kenvandine> hehe... sure
[15:52] <seb128> I'm busy with other things now, I need to do artwork sponsoring then I've a call and need to prepare for the meeting and register some blueprints
[15:52] <kenvandine> register? i thought we just needed a list today?
[15:52] <seb128> right, either list some on the wiki or create blueprints on launchpad
[15:53] <seb128> it's just that I need to think about those I want to work on + review those from other people since I said I would collect those ;-)
[15:54] <kenvandine> seb128, ok :)
[16:02] <Nafai> morning
[16:03] <seb128> hey Nafai
[16:05] <didrocks> good morning Nafai, how are you?
[16:07] <Nafai> pretty good, just remembering about the blueprint list due today. :)
[16:08]  * rickspencer3 whip cracking noises
[16:11] <rickspencer3> Nafai how's the BT indicator bug going?
[16:12]  * rickspencer3 breakfast
[16:12] <rickspencer3> brb
[16:13] <Nafai> I'm pretty darn close, last night I got some debug logging going that has narrowed things down considerably and so now I have just a couple of code paths to look at
[16:19] <seb128> ok, done with testing and sessions restart
[16:20] <Nafai> brb, rebooting into new kernel
[16:27] <Nafai> It takes longer to start all of my applications than it does to reboot and log into Gnome now :)
[16:27] <chrisccoulson> is rebooting fast for people then? i find starting up is quick, but shutting down is horrendously slow at the moment
[16:36] <pitti> chrisccoulson: depends for me; sometimes the desktop hangs for some 20 seconds before it finally shuts down
[16:36] <chrisccoulson> pitti - i'm seeing that, but i often see plymouth for some 2 minutes during shutdown
[16:36] <chrisccoulson> is /tmp being cleaned on shutdown?
[16:36] <seb128> reboot is okish there
[16:37] <pitti> chrisccoulson: no, during boot
[16:37] <chrisccoulson> hmmmm, i wonder why mine is so slow then
[17:07] <rickspencer3> Nafai could you please comment on the BT indicator bug so that folks can see that progress is being made?
[17:08] <Nafai> sure, I always forget to do that.  thanks for th reminder
[17:11]  * pitti waves goodbye, see you tomorrow!
[17:12] <seb128> pitti, have fun, see you tomorrow!
[17:12] <pitti> thanks
[17:17] <rickspencer3> bye pitti
[17:30] <komputes> rickspencer3: is there a meeting?
[17:30] <rickspencer3> yes
[17:30] <rickspencer3> let's go
[17:31] <seb128> hey
[17:31]  * ArneGoetje waves
[17:31] <Riddell> hi
[17:32] <rickspencer3> ArneGoetje, ccheney, didrocks, kenvandine, Nafai, Riddell, seb128, tseliot
[17:32] <rickspencer3> meeting time
[17:32] <Nafai> o/
[17:32]  * tseliot waves
[17:32]  * didrocks waves
[17:32] <rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-04-13
[17:32] <ccheney> here
[17:32] <rickspencer3> ccheney, hi
[17:32] <rickspencer3> ready to rock?
[17:33] <didrocks> yeah ;)
[17:33] <rickspencer3> ok
[17:33] <seb128> lol
[17:33]  * kenvandine waves
[17:33] <rickspencer3> let's go
[17:33] <rickspencer3> no open action from last week
[17:34] <rickspencer3> let's do our normal updates, then turn it over to seb128 to lead us through blueprint discussions
[17:34] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, partner update?
[17:34] <kenvandine> sure
[17:34] <chrisccoulson> ooh
[17:34] <kenvandine> DX is doing a great job of tracking their bugs
[17:34] <chrisccoulson> i nearly missed that
[17:34] <kenvandine> link on the wiki
[17:34] <kenvandine> looking good so far
[17:35] <rickspencer3> sorry chrisccoulson
[17:35] <chrisccoulson> heh, that's ok
[17:35] <kenvandine> OLS has a bunch of RC bugs we have been tracking, and since last week at least half of them have either have fixes available or are fix released
[17:35] <kenvandine> but the biggest concern from OLS is desktopcouch
[17:36] <kenvandine> quite a few crashers still
[17:36] <kenvandine> but chad thinks most/all are fixed now but needs a release
[17:36] <kenvandine> so anyone that has a good repro case for a desktopcouch crasher, please ping me
[17:36] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, release today?
[17:37] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, i think so, looks like there is one more patch being merged
[17:37] <rickspencer3> I'd like to do a dist-upgrade and retest tonight on my netbook if possible
[17:37] <kenvandine> that is all i have
[17:37] <rickspencer3> thanks kenvandine
[17:38]  * rickspencer3 crosses fingers about desktopcouch
[17:38]  * kenvandine crosses toes too
[17:38] <rickspencer3> so I know chad has been working hard on this AND he's been a bit sick :(
[17:38] <rickspencer3> ok
[17:38] <rickspencer3> moving on Riddell?
[17:38] <Riddell>  * Beta 2 out the door, no major problems
[17:38] <Riddell>  * survey shows feedback we've recieved https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kubuntu/Lucid/Feedback/Beta2 majority of people have good experiences, although still plenty of issues out in the real world
[17:38] <Riddell>  * time to get heads down and crack on with the last few bugs, http://tinyurl.com/yjybcx9 , 9 milestoned, 2 remaining high priority, all fixable just a matter of no slacking off
[17:39] <rickspencer3> nice
[17:39] <rickspencer3> Riddell, given that final freeze is in two days ...
[17:39] <rickspencer3> do you feel Kubuntu is on track to get the important work done?
[17:39] <rickspencer3> by then
[17:40] <Riddell> yes I think so, my main concern is bug 556555 but we've had similar issues so I don't forsee it being a big problem
[17:41] <rickspencer3> mmm
[17:41] <rickspencer3> ok
[17:41] <rickspencer3> seems Kubuntu is having a really solid release for Lucid
[17:41]  * rickspencer3 knocks wood
[17:41] <rickspencer3> ok
[17:41] <Riddell> yes I agree, we had some worrying akonadi issues but apachelogger has been working hard on those
[17:42] <rickspencer3> I think bryceh is not hear, as he attends Eastern addition
[17:42] <bryceh> I'm here
[17:42] <rickspencer3> hi bryce
[17:42] <rickspencer3> I was going to give a heads up about the for 8xx bugs
[17:42] <bryceh> yes?
[17:42] <rickspencer3> shall I go ahead?
[17:42] <bryceh> sure
[17:42] <rickspencer3> 511001  High       26345  NEW        [i855] Lucid Freeze shortly after X startup (needs KMS blacklist?)
[17:42] <rickspencer3> oops
[17:43] <rickspencer3> dang it, xchat never copies and pastes right for me
[17:43] <bryceh> does anyone on desktop have 8xx?
[17:43] <rickspencer3> 528467  High       26808  NEW        [i855] GPU hung (drm i915 intel) on Lucid Lynx Alpha 3 live CD
[17:43] <rickspencer3>  541492  High       26345  NEW        MASTER: [i845] GPU lockup (apport-crash) (Should KMS be blacklisted?)
[17:43] <rickspencer3>  541511  High       27187  NEW        MASTER: [i855] GPU lockup (apport-crash)
[17:43] <rickspencer3> bryceh, please correct me if I am wrong
[17:43] <ArneGoetje> bryceh: o/ 855GM
[17:44] <rickspencer3> but essentially, some bugs have crept into -intel
[17:44] <rickspencer3> the result of which is massive instability on 845 and 855 chips
[17:44] <rickspencer3> (well maybe not -intel per se, but the Intel graphics stack)
[17:44] <bryceh> Arne oh yeah...
[17:44] <rickspencer3> there is no clear solution in site, so RAOF is going to turn off 3d for these chipsets by default
[17:45] <rickspencer3> about 11% (best estimate from fuzzy data) of Intel users have one of these chips
[17:45] <bryceh> we're considering turning off kms as well, although we're not sure that'll help much so maybe not
[17:45] <rickspencer3> so perhaps 3%-4% of Lucid users will experience a regression
[17:45] <rickspencer3> :(
[17:46] <rickspencer3> bryceh, is there any action to take?
[17:46] <rickspencer3> I was just giving an update as an FYI to team/community
[17:46] <bryceh> rickspencer3, no, we need to follow through on testing, and if problems still exist consider doing a kms-blacklist + switch to vesa (nuclear option)
[17:46] <ArneGoetje> Lucid has been stable so far on my 855GM... upgraded from Karmic though
[17:47] <rickspencer3> hmm
[17:47] <bryceh> rickspencer3, yeah that's a good point, these issues affect a subset of the 8xx users, so just some subset of the 3-4% of users
[17:47] <rickspencer3> bryceh, well, we'd turn off 3d for all of them, right?
[17:47] <bryceh> no clue on what that proportion is though.  Somewhere between 1% and 99%
[17:47] <bryceh> rickspencer3, yeah
[17:47] <rickspencer3> we should discuss in Eastern Edition if there is a way we can let them turn it back on
[17:48] <rickspencer3> but without RAOF here, there's not too much point in discussing
[17:48]  * bryceh nods
[17:48] <rickspencer3> because we'd have to discuss all over again ;)
[17:48] <rickspencer3> any questions, or shall we hand it over to seb128 to discuss blueprints?
[17:49] <bryceh> rickspencer3, in related news, RAOF has patches to do similarly on some older NVIDIA cards with -nouveau
[17:49] <bryceh> apw is uploading patches as we speak
[17:49] <rickspencer3> ah
[17:50] <rickspencer3> so kind of a last minute, turn the 3d/KMS faucet off to older cards
[17:50]  * bryceh nods
[17:50] <rickspencer3> cool
[17:50] <rickspencer3> good idea
[17:50] <rickspencer3> thanks bryce
[17:50] <rickspencer3> xorg is very well organized and we have a good understanding of the status (as usual)
[17:50] <rickspencer3> appreciate your attention to detail
[17:50] <rickspencer3> seb128, blueprints?
[17:50] <seb128> hey
[17:51] <seb128> ok so previous week we asked people in the team to make a list of blueprint they want to work or discuss for maverick
[17:51] <bryceh> rickspencer3, not well organized enough to have remembered to set up our blueprints :-/
[17:51] <seb128> thanks to didrocks who added some on the wiki and launchpad
[17:51] <seb128> I've not seen a lot from other people though, looking on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Meeting/2010-04-13 and https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-m?searchtext=desktop
[17:52] <seb128> so let's go through the team following the wiki order and see who has noted some and maybe quickly comment on those if anybody has comments?
[17:52] <seb128> (one note, if you register blueprints on launchpad please use the desktop-maverick-specname convention
[17:53] <seb128> and set the sprint to "uds-m"
[17:53] <seb128> if you want it to be discussed at uds
[17:53] <seb128> any comment before we start going through the team?
[17:53]  * kenvandine hears crickets
[17:54] <rickspencer3> heh
[17:54] <seb128> hehe
[17:54] <seb128> ok, let's start in wiki order
[17:54] <rickspencer3> seb128, are you set up with permissions to accept and decline blueprints?
[17:54] <seb128> rickspencer3, any spec you want to work on or discuss at uds?
[17:54] <rickspencer3> seb128, sure
[17:54] <seb128> rickspencer3, seems I'm not no, we should get that changed!
[17:55] <rickspencer3> ACTION: rickspencer3 to figure out how to get seb128 blueprint rocking permissions
[17:55] <rickspencer3> seb128, I put my list here:
[17:55] <rickspencer3> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/10.10/BlueprintList
[17:55] <rickspencer3> and some folks have added to it
[17:55] <kenvandine> me too
[17:55] <rickspencer3> shall we quickly walk through the list, and whoever has an item can discuss it?
[17:55] <seb128> oh, I've seen this page, lot of topic and no names
[17:56] <rickspencer3> yeah
[17:56] <kenvandine> oh... we should add names
[17:56] <bryceh> oh wow, RAOF already registered all the xorg blueprints.  I guess we are that organized.  Scary.
[17:56] <rickspencer3> we'll fix that by logging blueprints, maybe
[17:56] <rickspencer3> bryceh, lol
[17:56] <seb128> I though people would pick things from the list
[17:56] <rickspencer3> meh
[17:56] <rickspencer3> shall we just start through it and see how ti goes?
[17:56] <seb128> bryceh, yeah, he forgot the -maverick in the name which made me not see those are first glance ;-)
[17:56] <seb128> rickspencer3, ok
[17:56] <rickspencer3> I'll skip UNE selection, because that is didrocks
[17:57] <rickspencer3> Web-based productivity app integration
[17:57] <rickspencer3> so I'd like netbook users to be able to dump OOo, and use Zoho in a nicely integrated way
[17:57] <bryceh> seb128, yeah I noticed that
[17:57] <rickspencer3> the Arm guys did something like this, so we can probably snatch their way of doing it
[17:57] <seb128> hum, quick question
[17:57] <didrocks> (interesting trolls… mmm, discussion, in perspective :))
[17:57] <seb128> will we have different tracks for desktop and une at UDS?
[17:57] <rickspencer3> bryceh, seb128 if you want to, give me a list of those blueprints, and I can adjust the titles
[17:58] <rickspencer3> seb128, good question
[17:58] <seb128> just to have an idea on the number of session we can reasonably get on schedule
[17:58] <rickspencer3> and the answer is "not really"
[17:58] <rickspencer3> so we'll have 2 rooms for all of our sessions
[17:58] <rickspencer3> we'll have to plan carefully!
[17:58] <rickspencer3> seb128, is that okay?
[17:59] <seb128> yes
[17:59] <rickspencer3> we can always get more rooms, the other tracks usually don't fill their's
[17:59] <rickspencer3> seb128, shall I continue, do you have questions about the Zoho thing?
[17:59] <seb128> I'm just trying to get an idea of what is a reasonable number of topic we can schedule for UDS
[17:59] <rickspencer3> btw, I am thinking of this as an option, not a default
[17:59] <seb128> rickspencer3, please continue
[17:59] <rickspencer3> okay
[17:59] <seb128> the zoho one seems a good UDS session topic
[17:59] <rickspencer3> I put down: Skype integration for Empathy?
[18:00] <rickspencer3> there is a lot of requests for this, and some things have changed (skype API being hackable now and such)
[18:00] <seb128> hum
[18:00] <rickspencer3> and the Colabora guys should be there for a couple of day
[18:00] <rickspencer3> s
[18:00] <kenvandine> oh?
[18:00] <rickspencer3> not sure this is worth a session though
[18:00] <seb128> I feel it's rather a question of "somebody need to do it" rather than something to discuss
[18:00] <rickspencer3> seb128, fair enough
[18:01] <rickspencer3> I'll log a blueprint, but we don't have to schedule a session
[18:01] <kenvandine> yeah, and see how they feel about it
[18:01] <rickspencer3> I definately don't want the desktop team on the hook for this, though
[18:01] <Nafai> how long are sessions?
[18:01] <rickspencer3> Nafai typicall 1 hour, though can be 2
[18:02] <rickspencer3> this is why preperation before hand is important
[18:02]  * Nafai nods
[18:02] <rickspencer3> seb128, thoughts on Nafai's question?
[18:02] <seb128> rickspencer3, right, it would probably require quite some hacking and we don't do much code writing usually, doesn't seem a priority either
[18:02] <seb128> a bit less than 1 hour
[18:02] <seb128> ie 1 hour is a slot for session and wrapping up going to the next one
[18:03] <seb128> we can reschedule a session during the week on a topic if required
[18:03] <rickspencer3> Touch is going to be a big topic
[18:03] <rickspencer3> design and dx will have some sessions on this I think
[18:03] <rickspencer3> but we should probably have 1 or 2 as well
[18:03] <rickspencer3> "Mobility" is a tough one
[18:04] <rickspencer3> this is about making Ubuntu be more tuned for the UNE scenarios
[18:04] <rickspencer3> but the engineering seems deep
[18:04] <staz> off topic, but I have a "Lucid installation CD  freeze my whole computer when booting and Lucid still freeze when booting after having installed it via the alternate CD and I have to use the rescue mode" bug, which component should I report that on, and which info should I provide?
[18:04] <rickspencer3> and the trade off tough
[18:04] <seb128> re
[18:05] <seb128> (sorry phone rang)
[18:05] <rickspencer3> kernel team is planning to do some power work though
[18:05] <seb128> staz, try #ubuntu-bug
[18:05] <didrocks> rickspencer3: I had a look at the 3G stack and geolocalisation as we discussed it at last UDS. Doesn't seem to have evolved a lot unfortunately on that side
[18:05] <rickspencer3> yeah
[18:05] <seb128> rickspencer3, touch seems almost something which would deserve an entire track and team ;-)
[18:05] <rickspencer3> seb128, hmm
[18:05] <rickspencer3> good point
[18:06] <rickspencer3> I will coordinate that with OEM services, dx, and design
[18:06] <staz> seb128: thanks
[18:06] <seb128> I think if we want to work on this topic we should not do it a side project for one team member
[18:06] <rickspencer3> I think RAOF may bear the brunt of Touch for our team (xorg input)
[18:06] <seb128> but rather have a team focus on the area
[18:06] <rickspencer3> ok
[18:06] <rickspencer3> the next one is a HUGE issue that I am very passionate about
[18:06] <seb128> (as we did for boot speed this cycle for example)
[18:07] <rickspencer3> seb128, agreed re side topic
[18:07] <rickspencer3> Delivering Applications to a stable release
[18:07] <rickspencer3> this is a biggy
[18:07] <rickspencer3> I want to see a stream of fresh apps land in a stable release
[18:07] <rickspencer3> this will involve:
[18:07] <rickspencer3> 1. launchpad
[18:07] <rickspencer3> 2. software center
[18:07] <rickspencer3> 3. policy!
[18:08] <rickspencer3> 4. tools for folks to ack new apps and such
[18:08] <rickspencer3> so community team will need sessions here too
[18:08] <james_w> rickspencer3: have you spoken to jib about this one?
[18:08] <Nafai> rickspencer3: as in, getting fresh apps in an existing stable release, or help improve this for upcoming stable releases?
[18:08] <seb128> what do you call "applications" there?
[18:08] <rickspencer3> seb128, we need to define that
[18:08] <seb128> like new pidgin versions for lucid?
[18:09] <rickspencer3> no
[18:09] <rickspencer3> well, maybe
[18:09] <rickspencer3> I don't know
[18:09] <rickspencer3> I was thinking more like little apps that folks make
[18:09] <rickspencer3> make them discoverable in the software center
[18:09] <rickspencer3> after someone has looked them over to make sure that they aren't malware
[18:09] <rickspencer3> or inadvertantly dangerous
[18:09] <Nafai> rickspencer3: a search of "approved" PPAs?
[18:09] <seb128> oh, ok, different topic than the one I was envisioning
[18:09] <didrocks> maybe we really should advertise this one to have community joining by IRC and really having a lot of people involved. Telling clearly "this is something big coming, we need you" (particularly for the acceptance policy)
[18:09] <rickspencer3> Nafai similar to that, yes
[18:10] <rickspencer3> didrocks, yes
[18:10] <seb128> seems a good topic for UDS discussion
[18:10] <Nafai> definitely
[18:10] <rickspencer3> the community team is quite dialed into this
[18:10] <rickspencer3> it's quite a huge change
[18:10] <rickspencer3> essentially, a 6 month cycle was quite fast 5 years ago
[18:10] <Nafai> and definitely goes along with the developer focus, and the opportunistic development stuff
[18:10] <seb128> I'm not convinced that users really want that rather than update for their favorites apps in stable versions
[18:10] <rickspencer3> but users expect fresh content faster now
[18:10] <rickspencer3> seb128, they want that too
[18:10] <seb128> I see lot of requests for new <desktop software> in stable
[18:10] <rickspencer3> right
[18:11] <rickspencer3> seb128, shall we discuss that?
[18:11] <komputes> rickspencer3: If I understand correctly, this initiative will close many "needs packaging" bugs?
[18:11] <seb128> yes
[18:11] <rickspencer3> because what I am referring to is different
[18:11] <seb128> well your call
[18:11] <rickspencer3> the person who makes the app will be on the hook for maintaining
[18:11] <rickspencer3> it
[18:11] <rickspencer3> just like if it's in a PPA
[18:11] <seb128> we can discuss both if you want but it seems a bit too much for one cycle
[18:11] <seb128> so maybe better to focus on yours for maverick there?
[18:12]  * tseliot likes the idea
[18:12] <seb128> we can discuss updating applications we ship in stable versions next cycle (there is already getdeb and backport somewhat for that)
[18:12] <rickspencer3> seb128, let's take the "new versions of apps in main on a stable release" discussion off line
[18:12] <seb128> ok
[18:12] <rickspencer3> I think it's a good idea, but I need to think about the ramifications
[18:12] <rickspencer3> I guess we would make them available, not push them
[18:12] <seb128> it's non trivial topic indeed
[18:13] <seb128> but let's discuss that offline as you said
[18:13] <rickspencer3> ok
[18:13] <seb128> yours is a good one for UDS
[18:13] <chrisccoulson> couldn't we just make -backports a bit more active?
[18:13] <rickspencer3> I want to keep running through my list quickly becuase other people have lists too that are at least as important
[18:13] <rickspencer3> speaking of quickly
[18:13] <rickspencer3> ;)
[18:13] <seb128> chrisccoulson, backport only build versions from newest ubuntu
[18:13] <komputes> I'm with seb128 on users wanting "update for their favorites apps in stable versions". I like the idea of simplifying that process, although PPAs kind of do that already.
[18:14] <seb128> quickly!
[18:14] <rickspencer3> so, I want to make app develop even a bit more "backed into the desktop"
[18:14] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - but, wouldn't these new apps also be in the newest ubuntu?
[18:14] <seb128> I can see didrocks looking carefully at IRC now ;-)
[18:14] <Nafai> yay for quickly.  This is one I'll want to contribute to
[18:14] <didrocks> (that rings a bell to me) :)
[18:14] <rickspencer3> I think ground control really pointed the way to some interesting ways to do that
[18:14] <rickspencer3> also, I'd like to discuss moving some of *our* apps to quickly if possible
[18:14] <seb128> chrisccoulson, we often have packaging changes or new build options used, etc that we wouldn't want for a stable update backport
[18:15] <seb128> chrisccoulson, let's discuss that after meeting if you want
[18:15] <rickspencer3> Quidgets ...
[18:15] <chrisccoulson> yeah, no problem
[18:15] <seb128> urg
[18:15] <rickspencer3> I'd like to discuss having a blessed pygtk helper library
[18:15]  * rickspencer3 plows ahead
[18:15] <seb128> let's not move properly writen code to boilertemplate generated code please
[18:15] <Nafai> brb
[18:15] <seb128> no offense to quickly ;-)
[18:15] <rickspencer3> seb128, it wouldn't be the boiler plate
[18:16] <rickspencer3> it would be to make sure the packaging and publishing commands can be used for real
[18:16] <seb128> but usually writing code is extra efforts but also optimized better
[18:16] <rickspencer3> so the changes would be in quickly, not the apps
[18:17] <rickspencer3> ok
[18:17] <rickspencer3> moving on quickly
[18:17] <rickspencer3> image scenario ...
[18:17] <rickspencer3> I'd like to make viewing and editing images simple-scan easy
[18:18] <rickspencer3> (treat the manage an image library scenarios seperately maybe)
[18:18] <rickspencer3> so I'd like to see the "perfect" flow for image stuff, and see if we can implement it
[18:18] <rickspencer3> desktop app selection -
[18:18] <rickspencer3> chromium?
[18:18] <rickspencer3> lots of user requests for this, we should have the conversation
[18:19] <seb128> right
[18:19] <rickspencer3> I'll skip the OneCOnf one, since that wasn't mine, but I like it
[18:19] <rickspencer3> next was:
[18:19] <rickspencer3> # Overriding defaults at upgrade, even if the user has changed the default and then changed back again.
[18:19] <rickspencer3> this is when we don't change to new default, though the user has the default set, because they changed something in the past that wasn't a default
[18:20] <seb128> is that the one I mentioned to you?
[18:20] <rickspencer3> seb128, yes
[18:20] <rickspencer3> next is:
[18:20] <didrocks> (+3000 for this one, such headaches) :)
[18:20] <chrisccoulson> heh
[18:20] <chrisccoulson> yes!
[18:20] <rickspencer3> # A great Python API to make programming Telepathy easy and fun.
[18:20] <rickspencer3> we are sponsoring someone just for this and Robert McQueen is excited about it
[18:20] <seb128> (the one before should rather a "how to deal sanely with user datas changes on upgrade")
[18:21] <rickspencer3> basically, I want a quidget like approach
[18:21] <rickspencer3> seb128, ok, I like your title better
[18:21] <rickspencer3> ;)
[18:21] <seb128> telepathy easy and fun++
[18:21] <seb128> rickspencer3, thanks ;-)
[18:21] <rickspencer3> open office
[18:21] <rickspencer3> we need to do way more here
[18:21] <rickspencer3> I 'd like to see it smaller and faster
[18:22] <seb128> I think it's out of the scope of your team manpower though
[18:22] <rickspencer3> I'd like to be able to install impress without installing basically all the rest of Ooo
[18:22] <seb128> "our"
[18:22] <rickspencer3> seb128, I think ccheney can make some progress in at least one area
[18:22] <seb128> "# can we make it smaller, faster " is out of scope
[18:22] <rickspencer3> we should pick something that will add user value and see if we can make progress on it
[18:22] <seb128> we might be able to get impress a standalone install
[18:22] <ccheney> impress can be installed separately to the extent impress is a separate app (it isn't really)
[18:22] <rickspencer3> seb128, I'm not convinced, but we should discuss at UDS
[18:22] <seb128> ok
[18:23] <rickspencer3> ccheney, no, if you install impress you get draw and like 150 megs of other stuff
[18:23] <ccheney> OOo is so intertwined its not easy to not have all of installed and have it also not crash
[18:23] <ccheney> draw and impress are closely related at the design level
[18:23] <rickspencer3> yeah, so I;d like Ubuntu to be less passive in terms of the OOo experience
[18:23] <seb128> let's take technical discuss for later
[18:24]  * komputes wishes there was an openoffice.org-light
[18:24] <ccheney> originally SO was a full desktop replacement app, not just a desktop publishing app
[18:24] <rickspencer3> ok, my last one was covered in the OneConf one, so I am done
[18:24] <seb128> trying to improve the OOo experience seems a good topic for uds and next cycle
[18:24] <ccheney> it even had its own start menu like windows
[18:24] <seb128> rickspencer3, ok, thanks
[18:24] <didrocks> rickspencer3: you mean, writing OneConf proposal, I covered your needs? :)
[18:25] <seb128> should we go through the rest of the team to know who has topics to add not mentioned yet?
[18:25] <rickspencer3> didrocks, yes :)
[18:25] <seb128> rickspencer3, ^
[18:25] <rickspencer3> seb128, sure
[18:26] <seb128> ok
[18:26] <seb128> tseliot is first on the list but going back to OEM next cycle so I guess we skip him there?
[18:26] <seb128> ArneGoetje, anything you want to work on or add to the list discussed?
[18:26] <ArneGoetje> language-selector: add a walk-through configuration wizard
[18:27] <seb128> language-selector-improvements seems a good one
[18:27] <seb128> any other spec?
[18:27] <ArneGoetje> other than that, I'll have lots of other non-blueprint related work to do
[18:28] <komputes> seb128: I spoke to you previously of Bug #324700 - do you think session sound effects would benefit from being discussed at UDS-Maverick (if so I could create a blueprint)
[18:28] <seb128> ok, fair enough, we can discuss work items and workload later
[18:28] <seb128> komputes, discussing the sound experience could be a good topic for UDS yes
[18:28] <seb128> ArneGoetje, ok thanks
[18:28] <seb128> ccheney, any spec you want to add or work on?
[18:29] <komputes> seb128: ok, let's talk it over post-meeting
[18:29] <seb128> komputes, ok
[18:29] <ccheney> seb128: i added a general OOo planning blueprint so there will be at least one session we can discuss OOo related things in
[18:29] <ccheney> seb128: its already up on LP
[18:29] <seb128> ok, that makes planning + the changes rickspencer3 want us to work on
[18:30] <seb128> ccheney, where?
[18:30] <ccheney> yea
[18:30] <seb128> ccheney, https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/sprints/uds-m?searchtext=desktop doesn't have it
[18:30] <ccheney> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-openoffice
[18:30] <seb128> ups it has
[18:30] <seb128> thanks
[18:30] <seb128> anything else?
[18:30] <ccheney> not from me
[18:30] <seb128> ccheney, ok, thanks
[18:31] <komputes> seb128: my bad - it's already there: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/gnome-media/+spec/sessionsfx
[18:31] <seb128> chrisccoulson, any spec you want to add or work on?
[18:31] <seb128> chrisccoulson, I guess you will be in the default browser one ;-)
[18:31] <chrisccoulson> seb128 - not yet, although i've been discussing mozilla security updates QA this morning. i'm not sure if that will turn in to a spec or not though
[18:32] <seb128> ok, thanks
[18:32] <seb128> let's move quickly we are over meeting ime
[18:32] <seb128> time
[18:32] <seb128> didrocks, I see you added some to the weekly summary you wrote
[18:32] <seb128> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-quickly
[18:32] <seb128> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-une-app-selection
[18:32] <seb128> + the oneconf one
[18:32] <seb128> anything else? or any comment on want to make on those?
[18:33] <didrocks> right, the oneconf is described at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/10.10/BlueprintList for those who haven't read it
[18:33] <seb128> I like it
[18:33] <kenvandine> i like it
[18:33] <didrocks> thanks :)
[18:33] <seb128> seems something which would be nice to have
[18:33] <seb128> didrocks, thanks
[18:33] <seb128> Riddell, what about you?
[18:34] <Riddell> we've been brainstorming at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/10.10/Brainstorm
[18:34] <Riddell> and I've an initial list of specs at https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/10.10/Specs
[18:34] <seb128> the kubuntu team is well organized as usual ;-)
[18:34] <Riddell> I'll get more feedback and get them registered
[18:35] <seb128> rickspencer3, when you said the desktop team had 2 rooms before, that was 2 + 1 for kubuntu? or does the kubuntu tracks have to fit the 2?
[18:35] <seb128> Riddell, thanks
[18:35] <rickspencer3> yes
[18:35] <rickspencer3> I think
[18:35] <rickspencer3> I forget
[18:35] <seb128> ok
[18:35] <rickspencer3> :/
[18:35] <seb128> let's check that later
[18:35] <rickspencer3> I'
[18:35] <rickspencer3> ll check with jono
[18:35] <Riddell> we've always been part of the desktop rooms before
[18:35] <seb128> kenvandine, specs? ;-)
[18:35] <kenvandine> yup
[18:35] <rickspencer3> I don't suspect we'll have an issue with rooms
[18:36] <kenvandine> Messaging - Port empathy indicator patch into a telepathy approver
[18:36] <seb128> rickspencer3, it's rather how much topic we can get on schedule than a space issue
[18:36] <kenvandine> doesn't need a session, but a blueprint to track the work
[18:36] <seb128> kenvandine, does that require discussion.
[18:36] <seb128> ok
[18:36] <kenvandine> hopefully telepathy is ready for that :)
[18:36] <seb128> ;-)
[18:36] <seb128> we will have telepathy guys there
[18:36] <kenvandine> and i have a few Social From the Start ones
[18:36] <seb128> so we should be able to talk with them about what we need
[18:36] <kenvandine> yeah
[18:36] <seb128> sounds good
[18:37] <kenvandine> Expand the Gwibber API to provide access to social data without talking directly to couchdb
[18:37] <kenvandine> making it easier for app developers to interact
[18:37] <kenvandine> also
[18:37] <kenvandine> libgwibber, create a C library for accessing gwibber and then generate bindings for other languages
[18:37] <Nafai> kenvandine: Would this be a DBus API or Python API?
[18:37] <kenvandine> Nafai, ^^
[18:37] <kenvandine> :)
[18:37] <Nafai> :)
[18:37] <kenvandine> and included in that, potentially convert the gtk widgets to C
[18:38] <kenvandine> so they are more reusable
[18:38] <kenvandine> also
[18:38] <kenvandine> Photo browsing of albums shared by friends via the gwibber API
[18:38] <seb128> seems a good list!
[18:38] <kenvandine> either in gwibber itself, or ideally in what ever default photo library tool we are shipping
[18:38] <kenvandine> yup :)
[18:38] <kenvandine> i want to make sfts more useful :)
[18:38] <seb128> ;-)
[18:38] <seb128> kenvandine, thanks
[18:38] <kenvandine> that is all i have
[18:38] <seb128> ok, pitti is not there and on rotation next cycle
[18:39] <seb128> me
[18:39] <rickspencer3> seb128, jono predicts we'll have at least 30 slots total (desktop, UNE, Kubuntu)
[18:39] <rickspencer3> but maybe more
[18:39] <seb128> I will be busy filling pitti's shoes I guess
[18:39] <seb128> rickspencer3, thanks for checking
[18:39] <kenvandine> :)
[18:39] <seb128> + I want to discuss the user settings and how we deal with those on upgrade
[18:39] <seb128> + one about the image, photo experience
[18:40] <seb128> and what we want there
[18:40] <seb128> (ie need to import or not, what webservices should be integrated, what edition functions we need)
[18:40] <kenvandine> and how it relates to sfts :)
[18:40] <seb128> right
[18:40] <seb128> + GNOME3
[18:41] <chrisccoulson> sorry, i've been drifting away with other things. there is one thing i wanted to talk about but i don't know if it's outside of the scope of our team, or whether it's a platform issue (and it might already be being talked about)
[18:41] <seb128> we will need to see what we will do with upgrades coming next cycle
[18:41] <seb128> what tech changes we want to follow
[18:41] <seb128> and how we will deal with those changes
[18:41] <seb128> that's about it for me
[18:41] <seb128> chrisccoulson, yes?
[18:42] <seb128> ok, while chrisccoulson is typing
[18:42] <chrisccoulson> a lot of gnome things seem to be growing packagekit support now, and we aren't making use of that. are we sticking with aptdaemon for the forseeable, and if so, has anybody thought about writing a wrapper library to allow us to make use of packagekit integration with aptdaemon?
[18:42] <seb128> Nafai: do you have any spec you want to work on or add there?
[18:43] <Nafai> not really, mainly just additions in detail to things already mentioned, i.e. quickly, etc
[18:43] <seb128> chrisccoulson, seems an good one too, maybe check with mvo but I think it's worth a discussion at UDS
[18:43] <seb128> Nafai, ok thanks
[18:43] <seb128> which makes me think too
[18:43] <chrisccoulson> my question arises because i wanted to add support to gnome-user-share this cycle for installing components to enable webdav sharing, but other than python-aptdaemon, there is a lack of convenience library for doing that
[18:43] <rickspencer3> Nafai, I will work with you to make sure you own certain blueprints ;)
[18:43] <Nafai> rickspencer3: Sounds good :)
[18:44] <kenvandine> hehe
[18:44] <seb128> rickspencer3, did you want one about tracker and what we can do with it at uds? is any upstream coming there?
[18:44] <kenvandine> and how about zeigeist?
[18:44] <seb128> chrisccoulson, right, there is a need for this, we should have something compatible with upstream apis in any case
[18:44] <rickspencer3> seb128, well ... seif will be there
[18:44] <kenvandine> i think he is coming, is there anything to discuss?
[18:44] <chrisccoulson> i can be involved with tracker discussion too
[18:44] <seb128> kenvandine, that too
[18:44] <rickspencer3> you ask a good question though
[18:45] <rickspencer3> personally, I am interested in developing something in universe or so
[18:45] <chrisccoulson> mbiebl got 0.8.1 in experimental a few days ago
[18:45] <rickspencer3> I am skeptical about the whole idea of running these daemons that log stuff and then the payoff you get
[18:45] <seb128> chrisccoulson, right, he mailed debian-gtk-gnome about 0.8 transition in unstable
[18:45] <chrisccoulson> yeah, he mentioned that too
[18:45] <seb128> rickspencer3, me too, but I know you had a short meeting with upstream guys some weeks ago
[18:45] <chrisccoulson> so, we will have 0.8.x packages ready as soon as maverick opens, and they're already in good shape
[18:46] <seb128> rickspencer3, it's probably worth discussing at UDS at least, we can figure then if we take any action item on it
[18:46] <seb128> chrisccoulson, good!
[18:46] <rickspencer3> if they are there, we should discuss
[18:46] <kenvandine> seb128, +1
[18:46] <seb128> ok, thanks everybody
[18:46] <seb128> sorry for overrunning
[18:46] <kenvandine> whew... long meeting :)
[18:46] <seb128> rickspencer3, back to you
[18:46] <rickspencer3> but I think we can do interesting things on blueprints if they are not there, since I don't see anything happening in main
[18:47] <Nafai> Potential rabbit hole, but are we considering updating to the latest evolution in Maverick?
[18:47] <kenvandine> i am going to have to drop out in a little bit, the guys working on my floors in our house is going to kick me out when they start staining the floors :)
[18:47] <Nafai> I hear it is faster :)
[18:47] <seb128> can people add things which are not on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/10.10/BlueprintList there for next week?
[18:47] <seb128> and maybe add their name next to the specs they added
[18:48] <seb128> rickspencer3, ^ what do you think?
[18:48] <kenvandine> i added my name
[18:49] <rickspencer3> seb128, sounds good
[18:49] <rickspencer3> I think we need to set a deadline for when blueprints are submitted
[18:49] <rickspencer3> I'll talk to seb128 offline about that
[18:49] <rickspencer3> any other business?
[18:49] <chrisccoulson> yes
[18:49] <chrisccoulson> :)
[18:50] <rickspencer3> chrisccoulson, go ahead
[18:50] <chrisccoulson> beta testing will start for firefox 3.6.4 shortly (I think by the end of the week), and we will be putting builds in to the u-m-s PPA for testing. 3.6.4 is scheduled to release around the time of UDS
[18:50] <chrisccoulson> and it has some fairly substantial changes
[18:50] <chrisccoulson> i would appreciate people helping out with testing that
[18:50] <rickspencer3> ^good example of an app that users would like updated in a stable release, btw
[18:51] <chrisccoulson> and also blogging about it / announcing it on twitter + identi.ca etc
[18:51] <rickspencer3> ACTION: everyone try out FF 3.6.4 from the PPA
[18:51] <Nafai> chrisccoulson: Sure, just say the word.  Though I'd have to actually use FF :)
[18:51] <didrocks> chrisccoulson: sure, just ping around once ready :)
[18:51] <chrisccoulson> i will contact everyone in a few days once i've got it in to the PPA
[18:52] <chrisccoulson> this is the big change in 3.6.4: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Plugins/OOPP_Testing
[18:52] <rickspencer3> any other business?
[18:52] <seb128> rickspencer3, right, I used pidgin rather than firefox before because we get firefox updates as security updates now ;-)
[18:52] <seb128> rickspencer3, not from me
[18:52] <rickspencer3> seb128, great job with the blueprints
[18:52] <rickspencer3> good luck with that ;)
[18:52] <rickspencer3> ok, I guess that's a wrap
[18:53] <seb128> rickspencer3, thanks
[18:53]  * rickspencer3 taps gavel
[18:53] <seb128> thanks everybody
[18:53] <didrocks> thanks
[18:53] <Nafai> on that note
[18:53]  * Nafai lunches
[18:53] <chrisccoulson> thanks :)
[18:53] <didrocks> Nafai: enjoy :)
[18:54] <ccheney> http://linuxbook.orbdesigns.com/ch11/images/btlb1116.jpg <- shows example of just how badly SO/OOo used to reimplement everything from internal windows to start menu and even the clock, i'm not sure how different internally OOo is even today, but will try to find a way to reduce impress install deps
[18:54] <kenvandine> dpm-afk, all those i18n related issues are fix committed now :)
[18:54] <kenvandine> for gwibber that is
[18:55] <dpm-afk> kenvandine, awesome, thanks! Remind me about beers at UDS :)
[18:55]  * ccheney bbl, looking for lunch
[18:58] <komputes> seb128: moved sessionsfx to desktop-maverick-session-sound (following the convention)
[19:00] <seb128> komputes, thanks
[19:02] <kenvandine> :)
[19:04] <chrisccoulson> oh, i posted the wrong link in the meeting there. i meant to post this one: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Support/OOPP
[19:31] <rickspencer3> stepping away for some air
[19:31] <rickspencer3> back in a couple of hours
[19:31] <rickspencer3> laters
[19:39] <rodrigo_> hmm, sun's java is not anymore in the repos for lucid?
[19:41] <jcastro> rodrigo_: look in the partner repo
[19:41] <rodrigo_> ok
[19:42] <hyperair> hmm it got moved to partner eh
[20:14] <Sarvatt> don't we need this pm-utils commit? http://cgit.freedesktop.org/pm-utils/commit/?id=e8d0b58a9df080f021d04b4c2d358003974092f3 - I don't see org.freedesktop.DeviceKit.Power available
[20:16] <james_w> Sarvatt: probably
[20:26] <mvo> chrisccoulson: there is a compat lib for this already https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~glatzor/sessioninstaller/main
[20:27] <seb128> mvo, do we use that in lucid?
[20:27] <mvo> seb128: no
[20:27] <mvo> seb128: it was on the radar, but too much other stuff was in the way
[20:27] <seb128> mvo, is it api compatible with what upstream do? ie can we just turn those options on in builds?
[20:27] <mvo> yes
[20:28] <mvo> well, it implements the dbus api
[20:28] <seb128> mvo, do you think it requires UDS discussion or we can just do it next cycle?
[20:28] <mvo> I think we should discuss it
[20:28] <seb128> ok, good ;-)
[20:28] <mvo> one session is enough
[20:28] <seb128> ok
[20:29] <seb128> mvo, thanks
[20:29] <mvo> we need to talk to glatzor about it too
[20:29] <mvo> np
[20:29] <seb128> is he coming to uds?
[20:29] <mvo> no :(
[20:29] <mvo> apparently could get the time from work
[20:29] <seb128> ok...
[20:29] <seb128> "couldn't" I guess ;-)
[20:29] <zyga> mvo: you work too much :-)
[20:29] <zyga> hi
[20:30] <mvo> hey zyga
[20:30] <zyga> mvo: some patches in software-center _really_ helped responsiveness, great job
[20:30] <zyga> all those mainloops in busy places
[20:32] <mvo> zyga: the latest version? yeah, much better now, still not perfect, but improved
[20:32] <seb128> mvo is make of awesome
[20:32] <seb128> k->d
[20:32] <mvo> zyga: next cycle we need to look into more agressive threading, but I had some bad experiences with that in computer-janitor :/
[20:32] <mvo> seb128: *blush*
[20:32]  * seb128 hugs mvo
[20:32]  * mvo hugs seb128
[20:33] <seb128> mvo, be careful about this, it bites back quite often
[20:33] <seb128> quite some of our lucid issues are due to it
[20:33] <mvo> threading?
[20:33] <mvo> yeah
[20:33] <seb128> yes
[20:33] <mvo> way to easy to mess up
[20:33] <seb128> like libgnome-keyring using cpu in desktopcouch was due to that
[20:33] <seb128> or gnome-control-center crashing on theme dnd
[20:34] <seb128> hard to get it right, lot of libs you can't use as you want + locking issues
[20:35] <mvo> seb128: my feeling too, this is why its been avoided so far, but maybe, maybe for some selected stuff, not sure yet
[20:35] <mvo> seb128: I heard rumors there might be a gtktreeview replacement in the near future?
[20:36] <chrisccoulson> mvo - oh, that's good to hear something like that exists already
[20:37] <seb128> mvo, I didn't but you might be better informed than me ;-)
[20:37] <mvo> seb128: haha, then I'm sure its *rumors* only
[20:37] <seb128> lol
[20:38] <didrocks> "that's what you hear on the street" :)
[20:38] <zyga> mvo: how about making the backend totally async in another process?
[20:38] <zyga> mvo: SoftwareCenterService
[20:38] <zyga> mvo: and the UI just one thread with async dbus data
[20:38] <zyga> mvo: if you like that I'll make it happen :-)
[20:39] <mvo> zyga: I like the idea, what I want to know if we can get search-as-you-type (as we currently do) with that. if latency/speed is fine, it will be a good improvment
[20:40] <zyga> mvo: I think we can do that
[20:40] <zyga> mvo: if you like I can make a proof-of-concept demo
[20:40] <mvo> zyga: if you are interessted in building a prototype jut for e.g. appview.py that would be cool
[20:40] <zyga> mvo: exactly that
[20:40] <zyga> mvo: I was also thinking about making two data sources
[20:40] <zyga> mvo: or actually - improving our current database
[20:41] <mvo> this is really the only thing that I'm concerned about, that it will slow searches down
[20:41] <didrocks> oh, the backend isn't another process? when you close s-c when you install something, it only hides it?
[20:41] <zyga> mvo: in a way that xapian points to storm-wrapped SQL database
[20:41] <mvo> didrocks: oh, that bit is a different process
[20:41] <zyga> mvo: this could make the data layer _easy_ and fast
[20:41] <james_w> Sarvatt: is that not in the 1.3.0 we have?
[20:41] <didrocks> mvo: apt-daemon?
[20:42] <mvo> didrocks: but the searching/db handling is in process (just using gtk)
[20:42] <mvo> didrocks: yes
[20:42] <zyga> mvo: and lessen the current "magic" stuff in xapian that is IMHO not very nice
[20:42] <didrocks> oh, I was thinking there was still a s-c bits there, but it's apt-daemon :)
[20:43] <zyga> mvo: this could also speed up some operations
[20:43] <mvo> zyga: hm, I'm not sure if adding a sql database make it nicer. but hidding it behind a dbus service so that we can use whatever we want is definitely a win
[20:43] <zyga> mvo: did you check out c-n-f- trunk?
[20:43] <zyga> mvo: the new dbus code is super fast
[20:43] <didrocks> zyga: apt-xapian-index is still quite impressive, no?
[20:43] <mvo> zyga: I haven't checked c-n-f trunk, no
[20:44] <zyga> didrocks: depends on what you mean by that, I find the whole solution 'working but ugly'
[20:44] <zyga> didrocks: I don't want to offend anyone though, it's just not layered correctly IMHO
[20:44] <didrocks> zyga: I don't know how this is binding, but trying it manually one year ago and was impressed by the results
[20:44] <zyga> didrocks: manually?
[20:45] <didrocks> zyga: making some request on apt-xapian
[20:45] <zyga> didrocks: is xapian any better than a database with full-text searching?
[20:45] <mvo> well, we selected xapian because of the focus on text search and  the integration with debtags
[20:46] <zyga> didrocks: I remember that during the last cycle xapian was segvfaulting after each update and it kind of made me dislike it
[20:46] <mvo> zyga: it is smarter when it comes to ranking, there are some articles about it
[20:46] <didrocks> what mvo told, it's more than text searching as it has the tags knowledge
[20:46] <zyga> mvo, didrocks: I see
[20:46] <zyga> mvo: the part I currently hate is...
[20:46] <mvo> we currently do not make use of debtags, but that will hopefully change
[20:46] <didrocks> mvo: yeah, I saw the FOSDEM talk a while ago and you discussed it there :)
[20:47] <zyga> what are debtags?
[20:47] <mvo> but in general I'm very pragmatic about this, having a better abstraction layer is definitly a win
[20:47] <mvo> zyga: what part do you hate?
[20:47] <zyga> mvo: (searching)
[20:48] <mvo> aha, yeah
[20:48] <mvo> maybe, just maybe we need something custom
[20:48] <zyga> mvo: softwarecenter/db/database.py:70 to 73
[20:48] <zyga> mvo: magic
[20:48] <mvo> it looks like xapian requires a bit of magic
[20:48] <zyga> mvo: I'd really like a SQL db + xapian as the index
[20:48] <zyga> mvo: so that it's not really holding all the data as it currently does
[20:49] <mvo> zyga: a overview on debtags is here http://wiki.debian.org/DebTags its basicly just additional meta-data
[20:50] <mvo> but pretty powerful
[20:50] <zyga> mvo: clear db schema, no magic, easy-to-understand fields
[20:50] <zyga> mvo: as an additional bonus you can use the same data to make webapps that know about packages
[20:50] <zyga> mvo: s-c could even become a webapp hybrid
[20:50] <zyga> with gtk UI like iTunes currently is
[20:51] <zyga> mvo: there are numerous advantages of that model
[20:51] <mvo> I guess at some point I need to look at iTunes
[20:51] <mvo> it gets mentioned pretty often
[20:51] <zyga> mvo: [do you have a mac?]
[20:52] <mvo> I don't have a mac, not even a ipod
[20:52] <zyga> mvo: itunes on windows is a lesser being, have a look at the mac version one day, apple made some good choices
[20:52] <zyga> mvo: and some bad ones too
[20:52]  * mvo nods
[20:52] <zyga> mvo: but they react pretty quickly to user feedback and it's worth reusing some ideas
[20:53] <zyga> mvo: do you have any other bugs I could help you with?
[20:55] <mvo> zyga: yes, hold on a sec
[20:56] <zyga> mvo: (and please tell me about that unauthorized sources patch, if you like it or not)
[20:57] <mvo> zyga: bug #441847
[20:57] <zyga> mvo: ah, the irony :-)
[20:57] <zyga> xapian :D
[20:57] <mvo> zyga: that should be pretty trivial, just call the xapian dbus service and ask it to trebuild
[20:57] <zyga> let me check it out :-)
[20:57] <mvo> rebuild
[20:58] <zyga> ok
[20:58]  * zyga likes dbus
[20:58]  * mvo too
[20:58]  * zyga would like to rewrite it one day but still likes it
[20:58] <mvo> bug #449877 is similar
[20:58] <zyga> mvo: please assign both to me
[20:59] <zyga> hopefully this will let me know xapian a little better
[20:59] <zyga> and make a proof-of-concept while I'm at it
[20:59] <mvo> cool
[20:59] <zyga> mvo: I stop working at Samsung at the end of the week
[20:59] <mvo> bug #441847 is the more important one
[20:59] <mvo> zyga: so you have plenty of time then? that is excellent!
[20:59] <zyga> mvo: after that I will need some time to prep my personal stuff and setup a company to work for C
[20:59] <zyga> mvo: yeah
[21:03] <Nafai> whoops, my only 4 hours of sleep caught up with me.
[21:03] <Nafai> I'm back
[21:04]  * pitti waves
[21:04] <didrocks> wb pitti and Nafai
[21:04] <Nafai> Good thing I worked a bit last night during my insomnia
[21:06]  * chrisccoulson waves back at pitti
[21:06] <pitti> Hey ... Rick
[21:07] <pitti> seb128: how did the meeting go?
[21:08] <seb128> pitti, seems I don't have your german efficiency...we overrun which didn't happen for a while I think ;-)
[21:08] <pitti> seb128: that was to be expected for BP discussions
[21:08]  * didrocks hugs seb128, the blueprints took a long time
[21:09] <seb128> pitti, otherwise it went nicely, we covered all the blueprints mentioned on the wiki + the one listed by team members
[21:09] <Nafai> pitti: You'll be glad to know we assigned them all to you
[21:09] <didrocks> (I guess it's unavoidable)
[21:09] <pitti> seb128: great
[21:10] <seb128> pitti, having to say "no blueprint for pitti since he's on rotation next cycle" made us a bit sad though ;-)
[21:10]  * seb128 hugs pitti
[21:10] <pitti> Nafai: ah, so maverick is the cocktail+beer+gaming cycle for the desktop team? sweet!
[21:10] <Nafai> :)
[21:10] <pitti> it really feels strange
[21:10] <kenvandine> sounds fun :)
[21:10] <pitti> but let's see how it goes
[21:10] <chrisccoulson> pitti - you're leaving us for next cycle?
[21:10] <pitti> after half a year I'll be happy to come back and do twice as much :)
[21:10] <didrocks> +1 on pitti's proposal :)
[21:10] <pitti> chrisccoulson: yes, I hate GNOME now
[21:10] <seb128> pitti, I need blueprint editing rights btw
[21:10] <chrisccoulson> lol
[21:10] <seb128> pitti, who should I ping about that?
[21:11] <chrisccoulson> who's going to look after udisks and g-d-u now?
[21:11] <chrisccoulson> ;)
[21:11] <pitti> seb128: please ping mdz or cjwatson; it's ubuntu-drivers, I think
[21:11] <seb128> pitti, ok
[21:11] <pitti> chrisccoulson: udisks is kind of my pet project
[21:11] <pitti> I do half of the work on it on my non-Canonical time anyway :)
[21:11] <chrisccoulson> pitti - oh, that's ok then ;)
[21:11] <seb128> pitti is not running that far and those are sticky :p
[21:11] <pitti> also, I think those are in relatively good shape now
[21:12] <pitti> I have wasted 2.5 hours that afternoon on this silly https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=598554
[21:12] <seb128> :-(
[21:12] <seb128> pitti, did you figure what is wrong?
[21:12] <pitti> but now the big halsectomy is by and large over
[21:12] <pitti> seb128: no, at some point gdb/nemiver just refuse to talk to me
[21:13] <seb128> next cycle will see quite some changes too but not on those
[21:13] <pitti> if I have an iface->methodname pointer, it's impossible to tell which actual method it is, or to step into it
[21:13] <seb128> GNOME3
[21:13] <seb128> I will crack the whip on robert_ancell :p
[21:13] <pitti> seb128: oh, yes; new desktop.
[21:17] <pitti> seb128: but oh well, at least I finally got cdrom_id working now; that was a fun exercise today
[21:17]  * pitti can't see ioctl straces any more
[21:17] <seb128> pitti, I watched the bug and uploads, good work ;-)
[21:17] <pitti> seb128: I hope to kill the blank cd bug tomorrow, then I'll also do a gvfs git snapshot
[21:17] <pitti> and gdu
[21:18]  * pitti waves good night
[21:18] <pitti> see you tomorrow!
[21:18] <chrisccoulson> good night pitti
[21:18] <didrocks> see you tomorrow pitti
[21:18] <bcurtiswx3> kenvandine: got a min or two?
[21:18] <pitti> I'm a bit intoxicated, too much for serious coding :)
[21:18] <bcurtiswx3> nite pitti
[21:18] <seb128> pitti, excellent, thanks!
[21:19] <seb128> pitti, have a good night
[21:20] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx3, sure
[21:21] <bcurtiswx3> bug #536702
[21:22] <bcurtiswx3> I am now getting a bunch of crashes after I deleted a good chunk of my . files from my /home/bcurtis directory
[21:22] <bcurtiswx3> since i am playing around, is this something thats supposed to be crashing like crazy, or deleteing the . files shouldn't matter
[21:24] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx3, yeah... only files it would care about is couch
[21:24] <kenvandine> ~/.local/share/desktop-couch
[21:25] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx3, did you delete that?
[21:25] <bcurtiswx3> kenvandine: yup
[21:25] <kenvandine> ok
[21:25] <kenvandine> and what about u1, do you use u1?
[21:25] <bcurtiswx3> not really.. i have an account and all
[21:25] <bcurtiswx3> lemme try that
[21:26] <kenvandine> no... don't
[21:26] <kenvandine> just checking
[21:26] <bcurtiswx3> oh..lol ok
[21:26] <kenvandine> well, is this computer associated with your u1 account?
[21:26] <bcurtiswx3> kenvandine: i believe so, yes
[21:26] <kenvandine> ok, if so then your desktopcouch db has  been syncing, so it should replicate back down
[21:27] <kenvandine> do you have anything in  ~/.local/share/desktop-couch now?
[21:27] <kenvandine> although none of that should be related to the traceback in that bug
[21:27] <bcurtiswx3> kenvandine: i have a few things in that directory
[21:28] <kenvandine> gwibber_*.couch?
[21:28] <kenvandine> gwibber_messages.couch, gwibber_accounts.couch and gwibber_preferences.couch
[21:28] <bcurtiswx3> kenvandine: they all exist
[21:28] <kenvandine> ok
[21:28] <kenvandine> one sec
[21:29] <bcurtiswx3> OK
[21:29] <bcurtiswx3> kenvandine: http://paste.ubuntu.com/413881/
[21:30] <kenvandine> so gwibber-accounts tracebacks, but gwibber works?
[21:30] <bcurtiswx3> no, i haven't setup any accounts
[21:30] <bcurtiswx3> on this machine
[21:30] <kenvandine> doesn't matter, they have synced down via u1
[21:31] <kenvandine> or should have
[21:31] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx3, get me the log file at ~/.cache/gwibber/gwibber.log
[21:32] <bcurtiswx3> kenvandine: the entire thing, or will tail have enough?
[21:33] <kenvandine> well, i big chunk of the end
[21:33] <kenvandine> 100 lines or so maybe
[21:33] <kenvandine> or just attach the hole thing to the bug
[21:34] <bcurtiswx3> kenvandine: i can do that, but lemme know if you want it after seeing http://paste.ubuntu.com/413883/
[21:35] <kenvandine> interesting
[21:35] <kenvandine> ok
[21:35] <kenvandine> try this
[21:35] <kenvandine> killall gwibber gwibber-service
[21:35] <kenvandine> gwibber-service -d
[21:35] <kenvandine> let that run for a few, then send me what's new in that log file
[21:35] <kenvandine> it will include debug logs
[21:46] <rickspencer3> hi all
[21:46] <rickspencer3> I debunked to a coffee shop
[21:46]  * rickspencer3 sips chi
[21:46] <Nafai> Hello rickspencer3
[21:46] <bcurtiswx3> hey rickspencer3
[21:56] <bcurtiswx3> kenvandine: now i don't get any crashes.. it just eats my CPU up
[21:56] <rickspencer3> :/
[21:57] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx3, what version?
[21:57] <kenvandine> and what is eating CPU?
[21:57] <bcurtiswx3> gwibber-service: Installed: 2.29.95-0ubuntu4
[21:57] <bcurtiswx3> same with gwibber
[21:58] <bcurtiswx3> lemme cause the crash again.. once sec
[21:59] <bcurtiswx3> kenvandine: http://paste.ubuntu.com/413908/
[22:00] <bcurtiswx3> as well as http://paste.ubuntu.com/413910/ which is the output of 'top'
[22:02] <bcurtiswx3> and i can't killall gwibber-* as it just respawns them
[22:02] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx3, ok so you did run gwibber-accounts and set the password?
[22:02] <bcurtiswx3> kenvandine: no that all was spawned by gwibber-service -d
[22:03] <kenvandine> try running gwibber-accounts
[22:03] <kenvandine> it should be raising a dialog... but that must be failing
[22:04] <bcurtiswx3> kenvandine: http://paste.ubuntu.com/413912/ ahead of ya there
[22:04] <kenvandine> actually looking at the log, it did run gwibber-error which ran gwibber-accounts
[22:04] <kenvandine> you didn't see the dialog?
[22:05] <bcurtiswx3> i looked at it.. i mentioned all three spawned from gwibber-service -d
[22:05] <bcurtiswx3> but no screens came up
[22:05] <kenvandine> yeah, so it saw the password wasn't in the keyring so called gwibber-error to handle the failure
[22:05] <kenvandine> which spawned gwibber-accounts
[22:05] <kenvandine> which is what timed out
[22:05] <kenvandine> but it did start it
[22:06] <bcurtiswx3> yup, its still running... or trying to...
[22:07] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx3, ok... i reproduced
[22:07] <bcurtiswx3> so are your CPU's getting eaten up now?
[22:08] <didrocks> well, time to wave goodbye
[22:08] <bcurtiswx3> bye didrocks
[22:08] <Nafai> night
[22:08] <didrocks> good evening everyone
[22:09]  * bryceh waves to didrocks
[22:09] <kklimonda> heh, I can't start gwibber anymore :/
[22:09] <bcurtiswx3> kklimonda: welcome to my world
[22:12] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, so presumedly at some point my gwibber account settings will synch down?
[22:13] <bcurtiswx3> rickspencer3: what does that even mean?
[22:13] <rickspencer3> it says "synchronization in progress..."
[22:13] <rickspencer3> but there is no way to know what is synching
[22:13] <rickspencer3> bcurtiswx3, gwibber account settings are stored in desktopcouch
[22:13] <rickspencer3> so at some point they will get synched with my netbook, and all the settings will just be there
[22:13] <rickspencer3> I just have to put in my passwords
[22:14] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, i think the problem bcurtiswx3 has is just that
[22:14] <kklimonda> I get some really interesting warnings along with NoReply: http://pastebin.com/kgkVfqS8
[22:14] <bcurtiswx3> rickspencer3: ah, so having u1 will do that?
[22:14] <rickspencer3> bcurtiswx3, yes
[22:14] <kenvandine> it is raising gwibber-accounts to have him enter the passwords, but it is failing to connect to gwibber-service
[22:15] <kenvandine> this is freaky, this exact scenario was fine on friday...  :/
[22:16] <kenvandine> oh
[22:16] <rickspencer3> well, since neither desktopcouch or gwibber have both been stable at the same time ...
[22:16] <kenvandine> http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/413919/
[22:16] <rickspencer3> it's no suprise we haven't been able to make this work end to end
[22:16] <kenvandine> so i was barking up the wrong tree... i assumed it was a failure of raising the accounts dialog
[22:17] <kenvandine> but it is another crash buried inside which is making gwibber-service crash completely after gwibber-accounts has already fired
[22:17] <rickspencer3> I wish I had any f*cking clue what desktopcouch was doing
[22:17] <rickspencer3> is there a log I can watch or something?
[22:17] <kenvandine> yeah
[22:17] <kenvandine> ~/.cache/desktop-couch/log/desktop-couch-replication.log
[22:18] <rickspencer3> hasn't been written to since yesterday :(
[22:18] <rickspencer3> this would explain the lack of crashing
[22:19] <rickspencer3> desktopcouch is not running, but couchdb has 2 instances, and couchjs has one
[22:19] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, can I run the desktopcouch daemon in such a way that I can see what's doing?
[22:21] <bcurtiswx3> kenvandine: actually, its weird.. the gwibber-* fail in such a way that its a nevernding loop of respawns
[22:21] <bcurtiswx3> s/nevernding/neverending
[22:21] <kenvandine> yeah... it wants to talk to gwibber-service which just crashed, so it starts and crashes again
[22:21] <bcurtiswx3> kenvandine: im assuming this because as i try to kill process ID's they keep not-existing
[22:22] <kenvandine> rickspencer3, not sure
[22:22] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx3, i have reproduced your bug... i am just a bit puzzled still
[22:22] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, sip-cover works
[22:22] <kenvandine> why this is failing now
[22:22] <rickspencer3>  but I don't think there's any synch attempts
[22:22] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx3, what version of desktopcouch do you have?
[22:23] <bcurtiswx3> desktopcouch:  Installed: 0.6.3-0ubuntu3
[22:23] <kenvandine> ok
[22:27] <kklimonda> is it possible to ship gconf schema (for registering url handler) and not depend on gconf (and half of the gnome?)
[22:28] <kklimonda> or maybe create a -gnome package that ships it?
[22:33] <bcurtiswx3> i think i stumped ken.. i don't know if i should be proud or go running far far away
[22:33] <kenvandine> bcurtiswx3, hehe :)
[22:33] <rickspencer3> bcurtiswx3, he'll figure it out
[22:34] <rickspencer3> I think it's probably a run of the mill bug ;)
[22:34] <kenvandine> if the password isn't set in the keyring, it fails to find the last_seq from desktopcouch
[22:36] <bcurtiswx3> im switching to laptop and relaxing.  brb
[22:41]  * kenvandine heads out for a bit... i'll work on this later :)
[22:42] <bcurtiswx> OK, back
[23:03] <TheMuso> Good morning.
[23:04] <rickspencer3> hi TheMuso
[23:07] <kklimonda> hmm.. could you guys take a look at bug 538580 if you have time? I'd like to get it sponsored before the final freeze.
[23:18] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: You'll be interested to know that the accessibility team is being revived. We just had a meeting to get things going again. And this is for all disabilities, not just people like myself with vision impairements.
[23:19] <Nafai> TheMuso: awesome!
[23:20] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, nice
[23:21] <rickspencer3> I am not just interested, I am very pleased
[23:21] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, UDS session?
[23:21] <rickspencer3> sessions?
[23:21] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: very likely yes.
[23:21] <TheMuso> They will be community sessions. I have more technical accessibility sessions planned also.
[23:21] <rickspencer3> TheMuso, is there anyone from the team other than you who will be there?
[23:22] <TheMuso> rickspencer3: Pendulum aka Penelope Stow will be there.
[23:22] <rickspencer3> kewl
[23:22] <TheMuso> She was the one who got things going again.
[23:30] <rickspencer3> kenvandine, can you please confim bug #562618
[23:31] <TheMuso> pitti: Seems that others are experiencing that race with at-spi I told you about. I will be around later so I can talk about it in depth with you again.
[23:56] <rickspencer3> RAOF, TheMuso Easter edition in 4 minutes?
[23:57] <TheMuso> sure
[23:57] <RAOF> Yup.
[23:58]  * bryceh waves