[01:00] <cjohnston> newz2000: do you think you will be able to make it tomorrow?
[03:26] <newz2000> cjohnston: I am not sure what is going on tomorrow but I'm going to try
[14:15] <cjohnston> mornin
[15:09] <l3on> Hi all... someone of you know where can I find the source code of lucid countdown buttons?
[15:09] <l3on> I would translate and use them in ubuntu.it
[15:29] <qense> Does anyone here has got experience with getting information bubbles floating at an OpenStreetMap on a website?
[15:38] <stas> qense: you mean openlayers?
[15:38] <qense> stas: yes
[15:39] <stas> i was playing with that library recently but find it harder to use compared to gmaps or other services
[15:40] <qense> Yeah, it's not that intuitive.
[15:40] <qense> but I'll figure out with help of the reference manual. ;) I was just curious whether anyone had a working example on the shelve.
[15:41] <stas> plus it is missing some wrappers/helpers to use it with jquery or some modern js libs
[15:41] <qense> true
[15:41] <qense> but yay, I've found something!
[15:45] <stas> qense: if you get something done, ping me, I would love to see some code using OpenLayer
[15:46] <qense> stas: will do!
[15:46] <stas> thanks and good luck :)
[15:47] <qense> thanks :)
[16:31] <ofirk> newz2000: can I talk to you for a sec?
[17:32] <stas> is there some meeting planned today?
[17:42] <cjohnston> yes
[17:44] <cjohnston> in a little over two hours
[17:49] <stas> oh, this time zones are driving me crazy :)
[17:50] <cjohnston> I included a link in the email that should show you the time in your TZ
[17:53] <stas> ah, my problem is that I always have to count what time is where the guys I'm talking with are
[20:03] <newz2000> Hi, is anyone here for the localization meeting? If so, check out #ubuntu-meeting
[20:04] <newz2000> (and announce yourself please)
[20:43] <stas> newz2000: around?
[20:43] <newz2000> hey stas
[20:43] <stas> hey. about the app
[20:44] <stas> i didn't succeed submitting it to the apps directory
[20:44] <stas> so I think it's best to share it in current status
[20:44] <newz2000> ok, what happened?
[20:44] <stas> they ask more active users
[20:44] <newz2000> ah
[20:45] <stas> though I got ~20 users in the db that added it, FB reports under 10
[20:45] <newz2000> :-(
[20:45] <stas> dunno how they calculate it
[20:46] <stas> so I'm afraid if we wait after official apps directory submission, we're loosing time
[20:47] <newz2000> yeah, well, I saw daniel announced it on identica
[20:47] <stas> i thought pinging some fan groups in facebook and sharing the link to the app can be a good start
[20:47] <newz2000> that's a good idea
[20:47] <newz2000> I think we should consider this a public beta period
[20:47] <newz2000> get people using it, don't worry about the directory for now
[20:47] <stas> yep
[20:48] <newz2000> stas: what would you like me to do?
[20:48] <stas> to do what?
[20:48] <stas> ah
[20:49] <stas> if you got many friends on fb that would help if not we are in the same situation :D
[20:49] <newz2000> ok
[20:49] <newz2000> I'll do it
[20:50] <stas> thanks
[20:51] <ofirk> newz2000: do you have a sec?
[20:51] <newz2000> hey ofirk, yes
[20:51] <ofirk> newz2000: how are you?
[20:51] <newz2000> good, how are you?
[20:52] <ofirk> newz2000: good, thanks
[20:52] <ofirk> newz2000: is there any news regarding the download page?
[20:52] <newz2000> ofirk: no, I had a phone call less than one hour ago
[20:52] <newz2000> and I still do not have any new information
[20:52] <newz2000> :-(
[20:53] <ofirk> bammer :(
[20:53] <newz2000> yeah, the person who I'm working with is very frustrated on the subject
[20:53] <newz2000> ofirk: I'm thinking about "plan b" currently
[20:54] <ofirk> remind me again what is plan B?
[20:54] <newz2000> we don't have one yet
[20:55]  * newz2000 looks at the logs to see how many downloads kubuntu gets during a busy period
[20:55] <ofirk> interesting
[20:58] <newz2000> ofirk: ok, you're peak demand is very managable
[20:59] <ofirk> newz2000: means that...?
[20:59] <newz2000> that means we can create a custom "plan b" solution and don't have to worry too much about capacity
[21:00] <ofirk> what about the one which uses the template.php inside the theme to generate the mirror list or to redirect to a mirror?
[21:00] <newz2000> my goal is to get you plugged into the new download page, but if that isn't going to work we can create a temporary solution and host it at webapps.ubuntu.com or on app engine or ec2
[21:00] <newz2000> ofirk: that's a possibility too
[21:02] <stas> newz2000: btw, you are still in pending status as the app developer, dunno why though
[21:02] <newz2000> stas: I'm not concerned
[21:03] <stas> ah oky :)
[21:08] <ofirk> newz2000: I'm sorry, my internet connection disconnected
[21:08] <newz2000> ofirk: no prob, last I said was...
[21:08] <newz2000> ofirk: that's a possibility too
[21:08] <ofirk> but for all of those solutions we will need an access to the mirror list on launchpad, right?
[21:09] <newz2000> yes, that is easy, its an rss feed
[21:10] <ofirk> and you have the PHP script which takes care of it?
[21:10] <newz2000> Hmm... that is an interesting separate challenge
[21:11] <newz2000> because it needs to run periodically
[21:11] <newz2000> and you can't do that the way you're planning
[21:12] <ofirk> drupal has cron support, if it is enabled on kubuntu's website, we can use it
[21:13] <newz2000> but that would require us to create a custom module for drupal which I don't think is going to be allowed. We already have the code written if that's what we're going to do
[21:19] <ofirk> do we have cron on webapps.ubuntu.com/app engine/ec2 ?
[21:19] <newz2000> ofirk: yes
[21:19] <ofirk> cool
[21:20] <ofirk> so why not use one of them. isn't it easier?
[21:20] <newz2000> it means we have to write something and "plan a" didn't
[21:20] <newz2000> so it is a fallback
[21:20] <newz2000> but we should probably start planning it
[21:23] <ofirk> what features will we have on webapps? can we use remote access to read the rss feed?
[21:23] <ofirk> can we implement the feature which redirects to the nearest server?
[21:24] <cjohnston> hey adiroiban
[21:24] <adiroiban> :)
[21:24] <cjohnston> newz2000 told me you may be able to help me out with setting the .js files up for translation
[21:24] <newz2000> ofirk: probably not (redirect to nearest server)
[21:26] <adiroiban> cjohnston: do you plan to use any js library/framework?
[21:26] <ofirk> newz2000: why we can't do that? is it because we can't identify from where the user comes?
[21:27] <newz2000> ofirk: it may be possible
[21:27] <newz2000> but the timing is tricky
[21:27] <newz2000> adiroiban: no, js files will be very simple
[21:27] <newz2000> they will need to output one string and one url
[21:28] <newz2000> the url will be https;//wiki.u.c/Local/<lang>
[21:28] <ofirk> newz2000: so let's tag it as wishlist
[21:28] <newz2000> ofirk: if we use the plan a then we'll get that built in
[21:28] <cjohnston> adiroiban: http://people.ubuntu.com/~chrisjohnston/local/file.js.en
[21:28] <newz2000> ofirk: yes, good plan
[21:28] <adiroiban> i was thinking of using jsgettext
[21:29] <adiroiban> http://openflights.org/blog/2009/05/29/dynamic-javascript-localization-with-gettext-and-php/
[21:29] <ofirk> newz2000: off course
[21:29] <newz2000> adiroiban: no php
[21:29] <adiroiban> newz2000: no need for php
[21:29] <adiroiban> :)
[21:29] <adiroiban> http://developer.berlios.de/projects/jsgettext/
[21:29] <adiroiban> here is the library
[21:29] <adiroiban> it a pure JS parser of po files
[21:30]  * stas pokes adiroiban 
[21:30] <ofirk> newz2000: so we need to use an rss praser to prase the rss from launchpad
[21:30] <newz2000> adiroiban: I think it's overkill
[21:30] <adiroiban> newz2000: it may be
[21:30] <adiroiban> but it can handle translation validations
[21:30] <adiroiban> as otherwise we need to implement our own checkers
[21:30] <newz2000> adiroiban: document.write('<a href="[url]">[string]</a>');
[21:30] <adiroiban> since translations can contain wrong js code
[21:31] <ofirk> newz2000: so the flow chart is: display download form with all mirrors -> user submits form -> get user data -> redirect to mirror
[21:31] <adiroiban> newz2000: we can also go with in the house solution
[21:32] <newz2000> adiroiban: simple = good++
[21:32] <newz2000> ofirk: yes
[21:33] <newz2000> ofirk: do you want to continue to use an iframe?
[21:34] <ofirk> newz2000: I don't
[21:34] <newz2000> ofirk: agreed
[21:34] <newz2000> so we have two choices...
[21:35] <stas> i would go using a json file, this will bring kinda gettext logic in translations, and the checks can be done using a regex
[21:35] <newz2000> ofirk: host the form on the dyanmic app (webaps...) or host the form on kubuntu.org and pull the data from the dynamic app
[21:35] <newz2000> stas: that means you have two hits to the server instead of one
[21:35] <ofirk> newz2000: do you mean kubuntu to pull the data from the app? is it possible?
[21:36] <newz2000> ofirk: yes, just a moment
[21:36] <newz2000> stas: since there is one .js file for each lang and the js file only has to display it's own link I think this could be a one line script
[21:36] <newz2000> I could be wrong on this... a case could be made for making it more complex
[21:37] <newz2000> (like asynchronous loading)
[21:38] <newz2000> if we have a 150 byte js file that simply displays a string containing a hyperlink, what's the most efficient way to get the job done?
[21:38] <stas> hmm, yep in oneliner case you're right, but having a more complex string with some variable words/numbers in it would make sense
[21:38] <adiroiban> stas: jsgettext is already doing that, no need to reinvent the wheel
[21:38]  * newz2000 listens
[21:39] <stas> adiroiban: jsgettext requires php?
[21:39] <adiroiban> bioe
[21:39] <adiroiban> nope
[21:39] <adiroiban> pure js implementation
[21:39] <newz2000> adiroiban: and what does it give us beyond document.write('...') ?
[21:40] <adiroiban> newz2000: it will allow us to integrate the translation into Launchpad Translations
[21:40] <stas> easier hangling of stuff like "Some %d hours ago and %d seconds before"
[21:40] <adiroiban> so that translators can translate those strings using a web interface
[21:40] <stas> i believe
[21:40] <adiroiban> or well know translation edit tools like poedit or gtranslator / kbabel
[21:41]  * knome coughs
[21:41]  * newz2000 was hoping knome would chime in
[21:41] <adiroiban> it can handle plural forms
[21:41] <knome> newz2000, what are we talking about?
[21:41] <newz2000> adiroiban: The string is "resources in English"
[21:42] <adiroiban> :)
[21:42] <adiroiban> then just document.write it :)
[21:42] <newz2000> knome: techincal aspects to cjohnston's localization project
[21:42] <knome> right
[21:42] <knome> so what do we need? a js script downloading a string?
[21:43] <newz2000> the end result is a js file for german will display someting on the page that looks like this: <a href="https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Local/de">Resources in German</a>
[21:43] <knome> okay.
[21:43] <cjohnston> in german tho
[21:43] <newz2000> right
[21:43] <cjohnston> lol
[21:44] <newz2000> the german will come from a .po file that is translated in launchpad
[21:44] <knome> what info do we have on the server with js? "de" ?
[21:44] <newz2000> file.js.de is a js file that will be responsible for displaying that string
[21:44] <newz2000> and it will only know or care about german
[21:44] <knome> ..right
[21:45] <adiroiban> newz2000: we can use po2json de.po > file.js.de
[21:45] <newz2000> adiroiban: that sounds promising
[21:46] <knome> is it rational to ask LP for translation every time the JS is loaded, or should the data be cached?
[21:46] <adiroiban> and just have a raw access to that json (without using jsgettext)
[21:46] <adiroiban> knome: the data will be cached
[21:46] <knome> okay
[21:47] <knome> i don't really see the problem here. can you enlighten me
[21:47] <newz2000> we're looking for the simplest way
[21:47] <adiroiban> the problem is how do we allow translator to translate those js files
[21:47] <adiroiban> and check the files will stay valid after translations
[21:47] <newz2000> yeah, that is a concern
[21:47] <adiroiban> and who have access to translate them
[21:48] <adiroiban> and how the translations are „comited”
[21:48] <knome> isn't that more of a LP issue?
[21:48] <adiroiban> using LP Translations should solve many of those problems
[21:48] <newz2000> the qa part I can picture, the rest i don't know
[21:48] <newz2000> if a person has to run the script to create the js files then they can do a bzr diff before and after to make sure no bad strings get in
[21:48] <knome> is there a way to check if a file is valid?
[21:49] <newz2000> jslint
[21:49] <knome> then do automatical validation and if it fails, use the old version and notify the translator(s) ?
[21:49] <newz2000> yeah
[21:49]  * newz2000 doesn't know how to do this though
[21:50]  * cjohnston either
[21:50] <adiroiban> knome: LP Translation should warn users as soon as the submit a corrupted translation
[21:50] <adiroiban> and not allow it
[21:50] <knome> bind a script to translation change?
[21:50] <adiroiban> but to do that, the translation should in PO format
[21:51] <adiroiban> so
[21:51] <adiroiban> if you want
[21:51] <knome> to check the validity of the js file?
[21:51] <adiroiban> I can help you with setting up the translations for this
[21:51] <cjohnston> adiroiban: definatly
[21:52] <cjohnston> someone needs to decide and newz2000 needs to approve how this is going to be, and then we can get it setup
[21:52]  * stas can haz pizza
[21:52] <cjohnston> but we also need to make sure not to display if there is no landing page
[21:52] <knome> newz2000, fwiw, i heard rime is going to get back home from florida tomorrow
[21:53] <newz2000> knome: I'd be interested it knowing if there's something faster than document.write('...')
[21:53] <knome> isn't document.write just basic basic js?
[21:53] <newz2000> yes
[21:54] <knome> i doubt there is quicker ways then
[21:54] <knome> at least with js
[21:54] <adiroiban> http://paste.ubuntu.com/413900/
[21:54] <adiroiban> this should be your source
[21:54] <adiroiban> and we will have a similar json for each language
[21:56] <newz2000> adiroiban: what happens with this?
[21:56] <knome> newz2000, i suppose there are ways to "preload" the text. that would look like it appeared immediately, but the overall page load time would be the same.
[21:57] <newz2000> yeah
[21:57] <adiroiban> newz2000: that is the format for json containing the translated strings
[21:57] <adiroiban> or in our case
[21:57] <adiroiban> it will contain a single string
[21:57] <adiroiban> po2json will generate a similar structure
[21:57] <newz2000> the generated .js file will probably need to have one more line of js besides this json, is that doable?
[21:57] <adiroiban> newz2000: sure
[21:57] <newz2000> ok
[21:58] <newz2000> I like it, lets move forward
[21:58] <adiroiban> is just that the rest of the code should expect to receive/use a similar json structure/object
[21:59] <adiroiban> newz2000: still, since the text is „resource is German”
[21:59] <adiroiban> nevermind :)
[21:59]  * newz2000 never minds
[22:00] <cjohnston> adiroiban: can you help me set this up at some point?
[22:00] <adiroiban> cjohnston: sure
[22:00] <cjohnston> fam just got home, so must go for now.. we can talk later about it :-)
[22:00] <adiroiban> just link me a bzr branch
[22:01] <cjohnston> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~chrisjohnston/website-localization/local
[22:01] <cjohnston> bbiab
[22:02] <adiroiban> cjohnston: hm This branch has not been pushed to yet.
[22:02] <cjohnston> adiroiban: its brand new
[22:05] <adiroiban> cjohnston: ok. here is a more specific exemple of the json http://paste.ubuntu.com/413913/
[22:05] <adiroiban> if your js script can handle such input
[22:05] <adiroiban> we are done :)
[22:05] <knome> i'm sure we can work that out with js
[22:05] <adiroiban> we should :)
[22:06] <knome> we are. i know a codemonkey. ;)
[22:06] <adiroiban> me too
[22:08]  * cjohnston doesnt know js
[22:08] <cjohnston> lol
[22:08] <knome> you don't have to know js if you know somebody who knows
[22:08] <cjohnston> 17.05.19 < adiroiban> if your js script can handle such input   <-- that was my way of saying i dont know if it can
[22:09] <knome> ;)
[22:09] <knome> i know it can
[22:09] <knome> don't worry
[22:09] <cjohnston> I did this: http://people.ubuntu.com/~chrisjohnston/local/file.js.en
[22:09] <cjohnston> lol
[22:09] <cjohnston> but I do like to learn stuff
[22:09] <knome> hehe
[22:10] <cjohnston> will you two be around later?
[22:10] <knome> today, no. i'm going to bed in 20
[22:10] <cjohnston> i jealous
[22:10] <cjohnston> im
[22:10] <knome> heh ;]
[22:10] <cjohnston> adiroiban ?
[22:10] <knome> anyway, i'll be around here tomorrow 8AM UTC
[22:10] <adiroiban> cjohnston: not sure
[22:10] <knome> or sth
[22:11] <cjohnston> ok
[22:11] <cjohnston> i work tomorrow
[22:11] <cjohnston> so prolly thursday we can work then
[22:11] <knome> probably
[22:11] <knome> i'll ask a js guru to join us
[22:11] <adiroiban> but we can continue via email
[22:12] <knome> sure. the best way to actually get hold of me is irc though.
[22:12] <cjohnston> do yall wanna setup a time?
[22:12] <knome> i often forget emails.
[22:13] <knome> i don't know about the js guy's schedules yet
[22:13] <cjohnston> ok
[22:13] <cjohnston> ill be here all day thursday
[22:13] <knome> okay
[22:13] <cjohnston> off to give the kids showers
[22:13] <cjohnston> oh yay!
[22:13] <knome> hf
[22:13] <cjohnston> bbl
[22:17] <knome> night everybody