/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/04/14/#ubuntu-desktop.txt

rickspencer3hi bryceh, RAOF, TheMuso00:00
TheMusoHey.00:00
rickspencer3so no robert_ancell?00:00
RAOFGood morning.00:00
rickspencer3he's resting on his well-deserved laurels?00:01
rickspencer3TheMuso, RAOF so I've been waaay to busy to update the wiki for hte meeting today :(00:01
TheMusorickspencer3: Thats fine.00:01
rickspencer3but I can remember the high points00:01
TheMusorickspencer3: He is OS00:01
rickspencer3OS?00:01
rickspencer3out sick?00:01
TheMusoOverseas with the OEM guys00:01
RAOFIn Taipai.00:01
rickspencer3so he's finally beened poisoned by GDM?00:01
rickspencer3ok, we'll have to carry on without him00:02
rickspencer3part 1 - partner update00:02
rickspencer3basically, desktopcouch has been crashiiiiiing00:02
rickspencer3but looks to be fixed, and kenvandine will upload the fix00:02
rickspencer3meantime, since the meeting, this uncovered a but in gwibber account set up00:02
TheMusoI plan to give Gwibber a go today, should I wait?00:02
rickspencer3but I don't expect it to be too hard00:03
rickspencer3TheMuso, no, go ahead00:03
TheMusook00:03
rickspencer3the bug only effects you if you've set it up on one computer, then synch your account settings on another computer, and do a gwibber first run00:03
TheMusoah ok.00:03
rickspencer3so next was Kubuntu00:03
rickspencer3basically, teh status there is the Kubuntu team is doing awesome'00:03
rickspencer3then we talked about x00:04
rickspencer3this was not as fun00:04
rickspencer3this was 845, 85500:04
rickspencer3bryceh, do you want to fill TheMuso on this?00:04
TheMusoI remember seeing bits of that discussion yesterday, so no its fine.00:05
brycehsure00:05
bryceh8xx has been a problem area for a long time but seems to just get worse and worse... we've been having lots of reports of X freeze issues00:06
brycehwe've been pulling upstream patches, which seem to address some freezes but not all00:06
brycehat this point what we're doing is disabling functionality, starting with kms and dri on select cards00:06
TheMusoouch00:07
brycehRAOF, care to add anything regarding 8xx?00:07
TheMusoQuick question out of scope for the meeting, how does one re-enable control + alt + backspace these days?00:08
RAOFThe big fundamental problem seems to be that it's easy to get the CPU and GPU out of sync, so the GPU will try to execute commands that haven't been flushed to memory yet.00:08
brycehTheMuso, the keyboard settings capplet has an option for it00:09
RAOFThere's a crazy huge patch upstream which may work, but there have been previous crazy huge patches that seemed to work, so...00:09
TheMusobryceh: thanks00:09
* rickspencer3 shudders00:10
rickspencer3ok00:10
rickspencer3so then we discuss blueprints00:10
brycehRAOF, indeed00:10
brycehRAOF, it's very reminiscent of some of the 9xx freezes we had at this point in past releases.00:11
rickspencer3bryceh, RAOF, would it be worth putting that patch in a PPA for users who choose that route?00:11
rickspencer3if it turns out to be the right thing, we could consider picking it up for 10.04.100:11
brycehrickspencer3, not a bad idea - RAOF does it look feasible for xorg-edgers?00:11
RAOFIt'd be fine in xorg-edgers.  We'd need to get a working full-kernel build in there, but that shouldn't be too hard.00:12
rickspencer3ouch00:12
RAOFEverything requires a kernel patch!00:12
rickspencer3however, we are explicitly choosing to maximize stability at the expense of some functionality for some users00:12
rickspencer3and "some" is a non-trivial percentage00:12
rickspencer3but it's the right call00:13
brycehRAOF, actually maybe better to have a separate ppa if it needs a tweaked kernel00:13
rickspencer3I'd rather the see the "I want my compiz" than the "I lost my data" bugs00:13
RAOFOr, in extreme cases, “I can't get to gdm”00:13
rickspencer3:/00:13
rickspencer3ok00:13
rickspencer3who owns setting up the patch so that it is installable by users who want it?00:14
* rickspencer3 looks meaningfully at RAOF00:14
RAOFYeah.  I'll take that.  I want to get a kernel build in xorg-edgers anyway, for nouveau.  linux-backports-modules-nouveau is getting a little out of sync.00:15
rickspencer3bryceh, do you think this needs to be done by release time?00:15
rickspencer3it seems a bit orthagonal to release00:15
* bryceh ponders00:16
rickspencer3ok00:17
brycehrickspencer3, I think it's ok as an SRU in this case00:17
rickspencer3we can let that run on background thread00:17
rickspencer3bryceh, I meant, "can RAOF put off working on the PPA a bit while he focuses on the release"00:17
rickspencer3or do you think we'll need it ready soon?00:17
rickspencer3I'll let you two decide that though00:17
brycehrickspencer3, it's not something that has to be done prior to final freeze00:18
rickspencer3ok00:18
rickspencer3so, we also discussed blueprints00:18
brycehso raof can schedule at his convenience00:18
rickspencer3TheMuso, I am afraid this puts you a bit on the spot00:18
rickspencer3as we discussed x blueprints this morning00:19
TheMusoRight00:19
rickspencer3so, seb128 and I put together a bit of a schedule00:19
TheMusorickspencer3: The three things I have for maverick, probably all needing blueprints are the following:00:19
rickspencer3https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/10.10/BlueprintingSchedule00:19
TheMuso1) get accessibility and GNOME 3/at-spi2 over dbus working nicely.00:19
TheMuso2) replace speech-dispatcher with a recently forked project of speech-dispatcher, called OpenTTS.00:20
TheMuso3) add a console screen reader to Ubuntu.00:20
rickspencer3TheMuso, I like and support those00:20
rickspencer3but ..00:20
rickspencer3sound?00:20
rickspencer3this seems always a hot topic at UDS00:20
TheMusoWell, out of those, 2 should take the least amount of time00:20
rickspencer3mmm00:21
rickspencer3TheMuso, do you need a pulse session?00:21
rickspencer3or perhaps crimsun will be planning that?00:21
TheMusorickspencer3: I don't think so, but others always think we do.00:21
rickspencer3TheMuso, right00:21
rickspencer3it seems like "integrate upstream and fix bugs"00:21
rickspencer3needs minimal discussion00:22
TheMusoright./00:22
rickspencer3ok00:22
rickspencer3RAOF, aside from the blueprints you've registered any questions?00:22
rickspencer3(as you've not been through this before)00:22
RAOFI'm going over that blueprint schedule.00:23
rickspencer3ok00:23
rickspencer3just let me know if you have any questions00:23
TheMusoI'll register blueprints today/tomorrow.00:23
rickspencer3bryceh, I'd appreciate your feedback on the schedule I linked to00:23
RAOFOne blueprint that I haven't registered yet was easy colour calibration/correction.00:23
rickspencer3RAOF, ack00:23
rickspencer3that sounds like a good one00:23
rickspencer3TheMuso, RAOF, bryceh any other business?00:24
TheMusono00:24
RAOFNo00:24
rickspencer3ok00:25
rickspencer3I'm going offline and heading home00:25
rickspencer3bbl00:25
rickspencer3thanks guys!00:25
TheMusonp00:26
brycehthanks00:28
TheMuso00/c00:30
rickspencer3kenvandine, hi01:57
TheMusoDoe anybody know what signal is given if one kills the desktop with ctrl + alt + backspace, i.e are processes killed with SIGKILL, or something else?02:24
RAOFI thought the processes died because they lost their X connection rather than being explicitly killed?02:25
TheMusoRAOF: I don't know. This is why I am wondering.02:26
* RAOF has a spare netbook for answering these sorts of questions.02:27
mclasenXlib exits when you loose the X connection02:27
TheMusohrm ok.02:29
SarvattTheMuso: SIGHUP03:19
TheMusoSarvatt: thanks.03:24
kenvandinehey rickspencer303:30
rickspencer3kenvandine, how goes it?03:35
rickspencer3seems folks are pretty happy about chad's fix so far03:35
kenvandineyup :)03:35
rickspencer3kewl03:35
kenvandinei am just about to dive into the gwibber bug03:35
rickspencer3the password one>03:35
rickspencer3?03:35
kenvandinefinally got the kids to bed...03:36
kenvandineyeah03:36
rickspencer3I'm guessing that won't be too tough03:36
kenvandinecrazy with having to eat out and hotel and all03:36
kenvandinenah03:36
rickspencer3seems a run of the mill logic error03:36
kenvandineit's just weird03:36
rickspencer3oh, right, your stuck in a hotel because of your floors03:36
kenvandineyeah...03:36
rickspencer3that bites03:36
rickspencer3likey bitey mcbites03:36
kenvandinei had saw dust in my beard!03:36
kenvandineand my door was closed :)03:37
rickspencer3lol03:37
kenvandineour house is going to be a real mess03:37
rickspencer3we've beent through the floors thing a couple of times03:37
rickspencer3you'll be happy when it's done03:37
kenvandineyeah03:37
kenvandineit looks awesome03:37
kenvandinefirst coat of stain is down, saw it tonight03:37
kenvandinewe can go back home tomorrow night03:37
kenvandineand move furniture back in on saturday03:38
rickspencer3it's going to stink! (if our experience is any guide)03:38
kenvandineyeah03:38
kenvandinei am sure03:38
rickspencer3tonight I shall dive a bit into map/reduce, I think03:38
rickspencer3read up on it a bunch last night03:38
kenvandineawesome03:38
rickspencer3I think desktopcouch needs an async api03:38
rickspencer3when I do stuff with the gwibber database, it can really lag03:39
* TheMuso is not a fan of renovations either. I feel your pain.03:39
rickspencer3good luck on the gwibber password thing kenvandine!03:39
rickspencer3ttyt03:40
bcurtiswxnite rickspencer303:40
RAOF'night.03:40
kenvandinebanshee's support for my android is soooo much nicer than rhythmbox03:40
rickspencer3bcurtiswx, are you staying up to keep an eye on kenvandine, make sure he fixes your bug?03:40
kenvandine:)03:40
rickspencer3kenvandine, you should show us at UDS03:41
bcurtiswxrickspencer3: umm.. yes... it just helps prove i have no life :P03:41
rickspencer3we can make RB better too03:41
rickspencer3bcurtiswx, ;)03:41
rickspencer3bcurtiswx, do you know python?03:41
bcurtiswxi want to....03:41
rickspencer3kewl03:41
rickspencer3do it03:41
rickspencer3if you learned you could fix bugs yourself, and make things work the way you want them to03:42
kenvandinerickspencer3, the difference in the user experience syncing music and stuff to my G1 between banshee and rhythmbox is like comparing a bmw to a pinto03:42
bcurtiswxany good beginners guides (other than dive right in)03:42
rickspencer3kenvandine, you fanboy!03:42
rickspencer3bcurtiswx, yes!03:42
kenvandinerickspencer3, i haven't really used banshee in a good six months :)03:42
rickspencer3there is a really good mit class on it03:42
* rickspencer3 looks03:42
kenvandinebut i installed it again to test the u1music store in it03:42
bcurtiswxim close enough to ken, i'll give him a good slap across the face, or punch in the shoulder next time i make it to NC03:42
kenvandinehehe03:43
kenvandinebcurtiswx, where are you?03:43
bcurtiswxNorthern VA03:43
rickspencer3bcurtiswx, http://academicearth.org/courses/introduction-to-computer-science-and-programming03:43
kenvandinecool03:43
rickspencer3bcurtiswx, I lived in Alexandria, VA for basically the 90s03:43
kenvandinebcurtiswx, near DC?03:43
rickspencer3up until 199803:43
bcurtiswxkenvandine: yes, DC LoCo member with Crimsun and Maco03:44
rickspencer3bcurtiswx, I would start on that class I linked you to03:44
kenvandineawesome03:44
rickspencer3then when you get board with that ...03:44
rickspencer3start with quickly03:44
rickspencer3and join #ubuntu-app-devel03:44
rickspencer3and start writing an app03:44
bcurtiswxrickspencer3: when i get free time i will def03:44
bcurtiswxits bookmarked03:44
rickspencer3:)03:44
* rickspencer3 wants everyone to know python :_03:44
crimsunwell, it beats ARMv7 asm, that's for sure.03:45
* kenvandine wishes we had a test suite for gwibber :/03:45
RAOFPython is *so* much more fun with a test suite.03:45
rickspencer3kenvandine, UDS session?03:45
rickspencer3seems something we could crowd source03:46
kenvandineyeah... perhaps03:46
bcurtiswxnot until a UDS in which Canonical will pay for me to attend ;-)03:46
rickspencer3crimsun, lol03:46
kenvandinei was thinking about creating the test suite first and then crowd sourcing test writing :)03:46
rickspencer3bcurtiswx, you can attend remotely03:46
rickspencer3yeah03:46
bcurtiswxrickspencer3: yup, i randomly skip work at times to see a few03:46
rickspencer3like get 10 people to write 10 tests a piece03:46
kenvandinenever written a test suite from scratch, just written tests03:46
kenvandineso it will be fun03:47
rickspencer3one key thing I have found is to never fix a bug without writing a test first03:47
kenvandineyup03:47
kenvandineso at $JOB - 1 that was the culture03:47
rickspencer3of course, I often ignore my own good advice ;)03:47
kenvandineno bug ever got fixed until the test was in the test suite03:47
rickspencer3yeah03:47
rickspencer3but if there is no test suite, it's tempting to keep fixing bugs03:48
kenvandineand often we created tests for new features and developed to the test03:48
kenvandineyeah :)03:48
rickspencer3so we'll put the breaks on that for gwibber in Maverick03:48
kenvandinerpath has an awesome test driven development culture03:48
rickspencer3the nice thing about test first is that it gives you a strong sense of progress03:48
rickspencer3I made n tests work today03:48
kenvandineyup03:48
kenvandineand writing the test helps flush out the feature03:49
kenvandinesometimes... sometimes it is just lots of spinning wheels03:49
* rickspencer3 nods03:49
kenvandinebut for bug fixing for sure...03:49
rickspencer3yeah, or sometimes it's *really* hard to write an automated test03:49
rickspencer3like testing async code that requires UI and such03:50
kenvandinei fear that will be the case for a bunch of gwibber stuff03:50
kenvandinelike we will need to mock out the services, facebook, etc03:50
rickspencer3well, I have a bit of experience with pygtk03:50
rickspencer3I wrote some tests for quidgets03:50
rickspencer3and they helped a lot03:50
kenvandinegood03:50
rickspencer3and for non-trivial bugs I add a test before I fix them03:50
rickspencer3but the coverage is spotty at best03:50
kenvandinei'll look at what you did there03:51
rickspencer3so good UDS session03:51
rickspencer3kenvandine, well, it's a lot of inspecting the treeview model03:51
rickspencer3and I haven't done any for filters03:51
rickspencer3just because it's too tedious to write the test code to select them and such03:52
rickspencer3but I shouldn't be so lazy ;)03:52
rickspencer3'night guys!03:52
pittiGood morning05:57
TheMusoMorning pitti.06:01
TheMusopitti: re at-spi again, a few weeks ago you suggested I add a sleep call after root window properties were set. Here is the boot chart after doing so. http://www.themuso.id.au/bootchart/strigy-lucid-20100414-1.png06:48
pittiTheMuso: can you please remind me again what the problem was?06:49
pittiTheMuso: hm, that is a 0-byte file06:50
TheMusohrm ok hang on06:50
TheMusopitti: the at-spi race condition. Sometimes panel/applets/desktop are not accessible. I can't reproduce it in the desktop, but other people can.06:50
pittiTheMuso: does it reproduce with the sleep call?06:53
TheMusopitti: Since I can't reproduce myself, I need to get others to test that. Getting the package ready for PPA now, but I wanted to give you the boot chart, as you wanted to see whether the sleep call would affect much.06:55
TheMusopitti: Ok here it is on another host: Seems the other one is not doing well with scp. http://packages.themuso.com/strigy-lucid-20100414-1.png06:56
pittiTheMuso: hm, that just gets to gdm, it's not autologin06:59
pittiTheMuso: it seems at-spi does't run in the gdm session?06:59
pittiI can't find at-spi at all on that chart06:59
TheMusopitti: Right, at-spi only runs if accessible login is enabled. Hold on, I'll enable autologin and get another one.07:00
pittiTheMuso: so what I meant is, with introducing that sleep, this should reproduce the race condition much easier; did that work? I. e. is it broken with the sleep now/07:00
pitti?07:00
TheMusopitti: not for me07:00
pittiTheMuso: so, ideally we would see an at-spi process which hangs for some seconds (the sleep), and nothing else would start in parallel07:01
TheMusoright07:01
pittiTheMuso: ok, let's get the autologin boot chart07:01
TheMusook brb07:02
TheMusopitti: http://packages.themuso.com/strigy-lucid-20100414-1.png07:06
pittiTheMuso: ah, splendid07:07
pittiTheMuso: you did a 3 s sleep?07:07
pittiTheMuso: so, it seems most programs indeed block on at-spi to start up, except for pulseaudio and gnome-settings-daemon07:08
pittiTheMuso: I suppose PA is alright to start in parallel, since it doesn't have UI07:08
TheMusopitti: right, yes it was a 3 second sleep.07:09
pittiTheMuso: I'm not sure about g-s-d; it doesn't have UI of its own either, but it certainly controls how other programs look (loading themes, etc); I'm afraid I don't know enough about SPI to tell whether g-s-d needs it, do you?07:09
TheMusopitti: No I don't. Afaik GTK just loads the a11y modules if it sees the at-spi properties on the root window.07:10
pittiTheMuso: right, that would mean that each program needs to load SPI individually, right?07:10
pittiTheMuso: so, this chart looks fine to me07:10
TheMusopitti: hrm ok07:11
TheMusopitti: Each app using GTK would need to load a11y modules, if thats what you are getting at.07:11
pittiTheMuso: so it's working fine for you even with the sleep?07:11
TheMusopitti: yes.07:11
TheMusoThis is a fast box though.07:11
pittiTheMuso: faster boxes should be more likely to reproduce this, though07:12
TheMusoThis is true.07:12
pittiTheMuso: so, if you have people who can reproduce this problem, I'd recommend the following:07:12
pitti1) ask them to install your version with the sleep, and do a boot chart07:12
TheMusopitti: Can do.07:13
pittiTheMuso: hm, I think only 1) for now; I need to see their charts to see what's starting prematurely, I think07:13
pittiTheMuso: just subscribe me to the bug, then I can reply directly, and you don't need to play the middle man :)07:13
TheMusopitti: Ok, not sure if the person in question is still online, but I'll get my package into a PA and point them at it.07:13
pittiTheMuso: thanks!07:14
TheMusook will do once the package is ready.07:14
pittiTheMuso: for them, spi was broken on all apps, or just on some parts (like the panel)?07:14
TheMusopitti: Just some parts.07:14
pittiTheMuso: oh, another interesting question for them: killall gnome-settings-daemon, alt+f2 gnome-settings-daemon (to restart it)07:15
pittiTheMuso: just in case g-s-d is involved into this after all07:15
pittisince neither of us seems to be sure about it07:15
TheMusopitti: Right, will ask the above, point them to the package, and subscribe you, thanks for your help.07:16
pittimy pleasure, good luck!07:16
TheMusothanks07:16
=== dpm-afk is now known as dpm
TheMusopitti: heh I just rebooted, and with the at-spi version I built with the sleep call, I now have a desktop/panel that is inaccessible.07:39
pittiTheMuso: oh! did you get another boot chart?07:40
TheMusohang on07:41
TheMusomeh, I removed it, thinking it wouldn't be needed. I'll grab again, and run. Whats the bet it will work properly. :S07:42
baptistemmgood moorning07:42
pittiTheMuso: it will not ever fail as long as it's watched07:43
TheMusoheh07:43
pittiit's a fundamental principle of quantum physics07:43
Keybukah yes, heisenberg's *certainty* principle07:49
Keybukit's like those days when life just goes great, and everything works out for you - you know a creator's running a debugger07:50
pittiheh07:51
TheMusopitti: Ok new boot chart, and yes my desktop is inaccessible, as well as panel. http://packages.themuso.com/strigy-lucid-20100414-1.png07:56
pittiTheMuso: hm, I don't see an obvious difference to the previous one; does restarting g-s-d make any difference at all?07:59
pittiTheMuso: and can you check with xprop -root whether you have the property set?07:59
pittiTheMuso: (feel free to pastebin xprop -root, I can have a look)08:00
TheMusopitti: ok just a sec, got caught up with something.08:06
TheMusopitti: gsd makes no difference.08:07
TheMusopitti: http://paste.ubuntu.com/414127/08:09
pittiTheMuso: ok, there's AT_SPI_IOR, so the property seems to be set08:12
TheMusoyep08:13
pittiTheMuso: are newly started apps accessible?08:14
TheMusopitti: Yes.08:14
pittiTheMuso: i. e. is this restricted to things like panel and/or nautilus?08:14
TheMusoOtherwise I wouldn't be talking with you now.08:14
pittidoes restarting gnome-panel or nautilus help?08:14
TheMusopitti: yes it helps08:15
TheMusoOnce the apps restart, they see the accessibility property, and work normally.08:15
pittiTheMuso: so, panel/nautilus/etc. start immediately after the sleep(3) in at-spi-registry08:15
pittiTheMuso: this sounds like a-s-r needs some more initialization before it actually works?08:16
pittiTheMuso: i. e. it seems it registers to the session a tad too early?08:16
TheMusopitti: I don't know to be honest.08:16
pittiTheMuso: I suspect the sleep helped to move the startup of panel etc. to a time where there is zero CPU activity, so their startup is much faster08:17
pittiwhich helps to trigger the race08:17
TheMusoRight08:17
pittiwhen a-s-r starts, there's still CPU activity from X, pulse, and IO from g-session08:18
TheMusook08:19
pittiTheMuso: hm, registry-main.c calls register_client() as the second-last thing before bonobo_main()08:21
pittithis looks alright..08:21
mvohey ccheney. do you have a estimate when a new OOo with the workaround for bug #556348 is uploaded?08:22
ubottuLaunchpad bug 556348 in openoffice.org "dapper->hardy->lucid upgrade fails with pre-depends error (fix for #442651 got dropped)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/55634808:22
TheMusopitti: I put my sleep call after registry_set_ior08:23
pittiTheMuso: seems right08:24
didrocksgood morning08:24
pittiah, back in a bit08:24
didrockssee you pitti ;)08:24
seb128hello08:47
didrockshey seb128, how are you?08:47
seb128hey didrocks, good! how are you?08:48
didrocksI'm fine, thanks. I realized that I took the habits to sleep 9h a night now… That never happened to me before, that's bad…08:48
seb128that's good08:49
seb128I like to sleep 9h ;-)08:49
seb128I manage to do that only during weekends though08:49
mvoI would like to sleep 9h (or more)08:49
mvobut usually it does not work out :/08:50
JamieBennettI'm trying to get webservice-office-zoho to startup-notify because on slow hardware there is lag launching the browser. I changed StartupNotify to true in the .desktop file and nothing happened, has the parameter changed?08:50
mvofortunately tea helps in the morning08:50
pittibonjour didrocks, seb12808:51
didrockshey pitti08:51
seb128hey mvo, hey didrocks08:51
didrocksseb128: well,, that's good, but you lost one hour to do other things like interesting reading ;)08:51
seb128JamieBennett, nothing changed recently that I know about no08:52
seb128mvo, tea addict!08:52
seb128;-)08:52
JamieBennettseb128: Umm, not sure why I'm not seeing any notifications then.08:52
* JamieBennett goes to investigate08:52
pittididrocks: I never set an alarm clock; I just sleep until I wake up, which I find best08:52
mvoseb128: :P08:53
pittiwhich is usually 8 to 8:30 hours after I go to bed, unless I go to sleep very late08:53
pittitoday I woke up at 6:30..08:53
seb128pitti, that doesn't work for me, I would wake up at 11am every day ;-)08:53
didrockspitti: this is what I do too. But normally, I only sleep 7h40-8h… now it's more close to 9h, wasting time :)08:53
didrocksseb128: don't go to bed so late :-)08:53
pittididrocks: don't worry about it; cats sleep 15 hours a day and are perfectly happy :)08:54
didrocks:)08:54
seb128slomo, hi08:54
slomoseb128: hi08:54
pittiTheMuso: so, I can't see something obvious in the code :(08:54
pittiTheMuso: obviously wrong, I mean08:54
seb128slomo, could you try if your updated vinagre crash when selecting a ssh gateway for vnc?08:54
pittiTheMuso: it might be that the XChangeProperty() call is not synchronous somehow, though08:55
seb128slomo, run vinagre, click connect, type a random host, click the checkbox at the bottom "use host <...> as a ssh tunnel", type a random host and connect08:56
seb128slomo, those don't need to be working vnc or ssh boxes08:56
pittiTheMuso: the only thing that still comes to my mind is to add an XSync (spi_get_display(), False); after the XChangeProperty()08:57
slomoyes, crashes08:58
slomovinagre: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/vinagre-1/plugins/libvnc.so: undefined symbol: vinagre_ssh_connect08:58
slomowonderful :)08:58
slomo_seb128: yes, crashes, symbol lookup error08:59
slomo_is there a known fix already? :)08:59
seb128slomo_, no, that's a known issue on Ubuntu too I was just wondering if it was happening on debian or if that was a toolchain issue on lucid09:00
seb128slomo_, thanks for testing09:00
slomo_well, should be easy to fix :)09:02
slomo_let's take a look09:03
slomo_seb128: is there an upstream bugreport?09:07
mvohey slomo_, nice to see you09:08
slomo_hi mvo09:08
seb128slomo_, not that I know about, I wanted to verify it's not ubuntu specific before opening one09:08
slomo_seb128: hm, problem seems to be that libtool or ld is too intelligent :) if you do the same from the applet it should work09:11
seb128slomo_, right, the symbol is defined in the applet binary09:12
seb128slomo_, I'm not sure what the right change would be though09:12
slomo_seb128: there's a libvinagre.a which contains the ssh functions and this is used for linking the main binary... and then the main binary doesn't have the ssh functions anymore (probably because they're not used)09:12
slomo_for the applet that library is not used... i would've imagined that -Wl,-export-dynamic would make sure that everything from static libraries is exported too09:13
slomo_but no idea what the right fix would be, maybe get rid of libvinagre as it's only used for the main program anyway09:13
huatsmorning09:16
seb128robert_ancell, hey09:19
seb128lut huats09:20
huatshello seb128 !09:21
robert_ancellseb128, hey - you been telling people to drop my LPI patches!? :P09:21
seb128robert_ancell, no, I said to keep it for lucid and maybe discuss dropping it during the unstable cycle to avoid extra work if needed09:23
seb128seems Laney interpreted that as he wanted09:23
robert_ancellseb128, yeah, I think so...09:23
seb128robert_ancell, you should register a blueprint for this libupstreamurl next cycle ;-)09:24
seb128or whatever you want to call this lpi done in a vendor neutral way09:24
robert_ancellseb128, it's on my list (literally on the notebook sitting beside me)09:24
seb128good ;-)09:24
robert_ancellI'm thinking GUpstream (glib patch) and GtkUpstream (GTK+ patch)09:25
seb128"Upstream" doesn't really make sense in upstream code does it? ;-)09:26
LaneyI interpreted it as "it's not critiical to keep if it's the only Ubuntu patch"09:26
seb128Laney, right, and I added a "since it's there in lucid and a win and no effort to keep it I would keep it for the lts"09:27
seb128Laney, dropping it now just for the sake of dropping it doesn't make sense either09:27
Laneyit wasn't just for the sake of it09:27
Laneythere was a new upstream release :)09:27
seb128well updating it once for this version and having the entries in the lts is a worth effort spending09:28
didrockshey robert_ancell09:28
robert_ancellhttps://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-maverick-libupstream09:28
Laneysure I understand what you're saying now09:28
robert_ancelldidrocks, hey09:29
Laneybut it's not like I dropped it for no reason either09:29
robert_ancellLaney, and it was fairly trivial to update :)09:29
seb128Laney, ok, let's say it was a misunderstanding, we will need to figure what to do with those if you care about being able to sync directly ;-)09:29
akgranerGood Morning :-) How do I get the main Ubuntu menu back on my panel? Places systems etc?09:30
seb128akgraner, hi, right click, add to panel, select it in the list, double click or dnd?09:31
seb128slomo_, is orc in schroedinger bringing something visible to users?09:32
seb128doh09:32
akgranerseb128, I don't see that in the list09:32
akgranerI added everything but that back that I could find09:33
seb128akgraner, it's one entry with the ubuntu logo09:33
seb128akgraner, it's called menubar or similar09:33
seb128(not using english there so I don't have the exact wording)09:33
akgraneroh I have that then how do I get systems and places back on the panel09:34
seb128?09:34
seb128you picked the wrong one if you only have one icon09:34
seb128yes it's confusing09:34
seb128there are 2 of those09:34
seb128one is the one icon menu09:34
seb128and one is the 3 labels one09:34
* akgraner looks thanks :-)09:34
TheMusopitti: I can certainly try that, however that is for tomorrow.09:36
seb128slomo_, hey again09:36
akgraneralrighty got it back  - thanks :-)  but my panel keeps getting messed up when I suspend ? double icons, and some things like the nm just disappear09:37
slomo_seb128: hi, my network connection is a bit unreliable :)09:37
seb128akgraner, there is a known bug about it, I get every now and then, weird that you get it so often09:37
seb128slomo_, would building shroedinger without orc have any visible effect in normal user situations?09:38
seb128slomo_, I synced the new version but it moved from liboil to liborc which is universe09:38
seb128slomo_, I'm pondering building without it or downgrading to previous version or trying to get liborc in main but I would prefer to avoid this one since it's late for lucid09:39
akgranerahh ok  - thanks :-)09:39
slomo_seb128: yes, without orc schroedinger is insanely slow ;)09:39
seb128slomo_, when is shroedinger being used?09:40
pittihah! gotcha, gvfs09:40
seb128on any commonly use formats playing or just for some codecs?09:40
seb128pitti, the eject blank CD one?09:40
pittiyes09:40
seb128pitti, \o/09:40
slomo_seb128: just for dirac (but iirc you can get dirac videos from the bbc iplayer)09:40
JamieBennettRegarding the StartupNotify entry in the .desktop file, I presume the .desktop file is only used when you click on the menu icon, not when you 'open with' or launch the app as an associated launcher?09:40
seb128JamieBennett, it's possible yes09:41
seb128JamieBennett, hum no, I get the spinning cursor when opening a pdf for example09:41
slomo_seb128: imho you can move it to universe09:42
seb128pitti, ok, I did a small screwup by syncing the new schroedinger when sabdfl pinged about it yesterday09:43
seb128slomo_, no, libavcodec52 depends on it09:43
JamieBennettseb128: Ah OK, I'll look further.09:43
pittiseb128: and it changes ABI/API all over the place and breaks everything?09:43
seb128pitti, no, it moved from using liboil to liborc09:43
slomo_seb128: oh, well, then you need orc in main ;) which might not be a good idea because it's quite new09:43
seb128pitti, and I didn't notice orc was in universe and schroedinger not09:44
seb128pitti, schroedinger is just used by libavcodec52 right now and only for diract videos09:44
seb128pitti, I was pondering asking you what you think about maybe promoting orc but slomo seems to say it's not a good idea09:45
seb128pitti, I will 1.0.9.is.1.0.8 it09:45
pittiseb128: it's not just a configure option?09:45
seb128pitti, sorry for the noise09:45
pittii. e. we can't build 1.0.9 against liboil?09:45
seb128pitti, they dropped oil support in favor of orc09:45
pittiok09:45
seb128no, they cleaned the oil build option which imho is stupid09:46
slomo_seb128, pitti: well, orc is a jit compiler and reviewing that for main inclusion might take some time... also orc 0.5 (which is incompatible with current 0.4) will be released in the near future09:46
seb128they claim orc is experimental and off by default09:46
pittiright, also liboil has many more rdepends09:46
seb128build without orc is too slow to be usable09:46
seb128and they dropped oil support09:46
pittiso let's keep 1.0.8, right09:46
seb128dropping oil support is just a stupid think to do in this case, *shrug*09:46
seb128pitti, ok, my conclusion too, thanks09:47
slomo_seb128: well, with orc schro is up to 3x faster than with liboil... and liboil is not maintained anymore and will probably be go away soon ;)09:49
seb128slomo_, so we have choice between slow code, decent speed with a known lib but not maintained or good speed with a new lib not really tested and which will break abi09:50
seb128slomo_, ie all 3 options somewhat suck ;-)09:50
seb128slomo_, let's stay on liboil for lucid, it's used by other things too anyway09:51
slomo_yes, that's probably the best solution09:52
slomo_gstreamer will use liboil until 0.12/1.0 too probably09:52
seb128slomo_, thanks09:54
huatsDoes anyone know why after upgrading from karmic -> lucid I have lost evolution in the menu ?09:54
seb128huats, it's in the office menu09:54
seb128huats, we got ride of the duplicate entries09:55
huatshum indeed09:55
huatsI have seen that just after09:55
huatsseb128, thanks09:55
seb128you're welcome09:55
seb128re10:05
seb128pitti, when do you think we should upload the lpi change to drop the report a bug entry?10:05
pittire10:09
pittisorry, phone doesn't stand still today :)10:10
pittiseb128: hm, what's your feeling?10:10
pittiI thought in about a week perhaps10:10
pittiit should be in the RC10:11
pittiseb128: but feel free to upload it earlier if you prefer10:11
pittiI have no strong opinion about it10:11
seb128pitti, no, I'm fine doing it early next week10:11
seb128pitti, I was just checking with you that after freeze is still ok10:12
pittiargh, 3 minutes after I upload gvfs the patch got ack'ed upstream; but oh well, no big deal10:22
* Ng wonders who he should offer belgian beer to in return for fixing two bash_completion bugs that make his team very sad :D10:23
pittiWE ARE UNBRIBA.. wait, beer?10:24
chrisccoulsonhey pitti10:26
chrisccoulsonhow are you today?10:26
seb128hey chrisccoulson10:26
chrisccoulsonhey seb12810:26
* chrisccoulson has just realised he hasn't updated his machine for nearly a week10:27
didrockshey chrisccoulson10:29
Ngif I want to propose two debdiffs for a package, should I make each from a pristine package and defer merging horror for someone else? or is there a preferred etiquette for this sort of thing?10:30
james_wbzr!10:31
Ngjames_w: oh, I forgot about that, I'm being all old-and-busted with my debdiff ideas, aren't I ;)10:31
james_wNg: if you think they are sound then stick them in the same branch, if one or both is likely to be contentious then you can put them in two branches10:32
pittichrisccoulson: hey, how are you? I'm great, thanks! spend half of my morning on the phone, though :)10:32
james_wwith no merging horror!10:32
Ngjames_w: say, you subscribe to bugmail for bash-completion.... :D10:32
james_wcorrect10:32
chrisccoulsonhey didrocks10:32
james_wI also sponsor things from bzr ;-)10:32
chrisccoulsonpitti - yeah, i'm good thanks. i had quite an early night last night for a change :)10:32
Ngjames_w: I would like to apply two patches to lucid's bash-completion so I and my team can actually do our work without locally patching it ;)10:32
didrockspitti: it seems to me that the guest session doesn't use the DefaultSession stuff and only logs you in GNOME. I can have a look. This is in the indicator session package?10:32
pittiseb128: just reviewed gdu, there's nothing earth shattering in trunk, so I won't do a git snapshot10:32
didrocksgood morning james_w10:32
pittihey james_w10:33
seb128pitti, ok10:33
pittiseb128: gvfs was useful, though, fixes another LP bug10:33
james_wgood morning everyone10:33
seb128hey james_w10:33
james_wsorry about the pm-utils noise pittit10:33
pittididrocks: no, there's a separate source, gdm-guest-session10:34
seb128pitti, quite some good changes in gvfs, it fixes a ftp issue too that you didn't close in the changelog10:34
didrockspitti: ok, looking at that, thanks :)10:34
pittijames_w: no problem at all; I know that it's too easy to mix it up, our multitude of on_ac_power scripts is weird10:34
pittiseb128: oh, oops; I could have improved my bug stats even more :)10:35
seb128pitti, yeah, it's going to be tight to catch up with me for lucid :p10:35
pittis/tight/impossible/10:35
pittiI'm running at full steam, but it's not fast enough10:35
* pitti hugs seb12810:35
* seb128 hugs pitti10:36
seb128pitti, there was also the ipad bug task you could have closed10:36
seb128pitti, you missed 2 easy points there :p10:36
pittiI just checked the upstream bugs, there was no LP reference :/10:36
pittiseb128: are you closing them now, or shall I look up the bugs?10:36
seb128pitti, I just did10:37
pittimerci10:37
seb128pitti, https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/bugtrackers/gnome-bugs/61440110:37
seb128I've https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/bugtrackers/gnome-bugs/%s as alias there10:37
pittiooh10:37
seb128it's handy10:38
seb128I also have a crappy piece of python collecting bug numbers in a changelog10:38
seb128and calling firefox  https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/bugs/bugtrackers/gnome-bugs/%s on the list10:38
seb128I should clean and share that ;-)10:38
* didrocks does the same here after seeing seb128 using it "gb xxx" (for "gnome bug" #…). How did I live without it? :)10:40
pittiseb128: thanks, added to my quick searches now10:44
Ngjames_w: lp:~cmsj/ubuntu/lucid/bash-completion/team-is-fixes/ linked to bug #483499 and bug #510591 for consideration, if you have the time :)10:48
ubottuLaunchpad bug 483499 in bash-completion "regression: ssh bash completion is unable to handle external known_hosts files" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/48349910:48
ubottuLaunchpad bug 510591 in bash-completion "avahi-browse makes host completion ugly and slow" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/51059110:48
Ng483499 is unequivocably a bug and the fix works. 510591 is just very frustrating on large networks, but is denying a cute feature to people on small networks so may be somewhat controversial.10:50
didrocksany idea why I'm not on that page (http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/bug-fixing/canonical-desktop-team-lucid-fixes-report.html) but only on that one (http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/bug-fixing/lucid-fixes-report.html)?10:54
mvojames_w: just fyi (because we talked about it in the past). http://people.canonical.com/~mvo/automatic-upgrade-testing/auto-install-tester/ is a automatic tester if pkgs can be installed/removed cleanly, no further checks (yet :)10:55
* mvo is off to lunch now10:55
james_w\o/10:56
james_wthanks mvo10:56
james_wmvo: using skewed archives?10:56
seb128didrocks, no idea10:56
james_w(go for lunch)10:56
didrocksseb128: not a big deal in any case. I was just surprised looking at the first link and beginning to wonder what do I do during my days :)10:57
seb128I didn't even know about this by team version10:57
didrockseven for you or pitti the numbers aren't actually the same. There must be black magic somewhere :)10:58
seb128or it has been updated today and the other one not yet10:58
pittididrocks: perhaps the team members need updating10:59
pittiin their scripts10:59
pittiI suppose they don't update them with every page update10:59
didrockspitti: they added chrisccoulson and RAOF, but maybe they didn't see me, I'll see with them at UDS. Not very important…11:00
pittihm, but RAOF joined much later, and he's on there11:00
didrocksdo you something to tell me about my employment? :-)11:00
didrockshave*11:01
seb128didrocks, did you get paid since you work there? ;-)11:01
didrocksseb128: I guess I have to check again :-)11:01
pittididrocks: just ping bdmurray about it; I guess it's trivial to fix11:03
didrockspitti: sure, will do, thanks :)11:03
chrisccoulsondidrocks - you're not fixing any bugs?11:04
chrisccoulson:P11:04
seb128didrocks, slacker!11:04
chrisccoulsonlol11:04
didrockschrisccoulson: http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/bug-fixing/lucid-fixes-report.html seems to tell something else :)11:04
chrisccoulsonsaying that, i've got a lot of catching up to do to reach seb128's level11:04
didrocksseb128: to be honest, I was thinking you will tell that first :)11:05
seb128:-p11:05
chrisccoulsonoh, i'm not doing too bad i suppose. if you add the contributions from both e-mail addresses, then i'm just above slangasek11:07
seb128chrisccoulson, your community you is beating your canonical you though ;-)11:08
chrisccoulsonheh, i'd best start working a bit more then ;)11:09
seb128;-)11:09
james_wNg: if you "Propose for merging" then I get mail and it goes on the web page11:48
james_wI'm looking at it now anyway11:48
Ngdoh11:48
seb128Ng, don't assume it's true for most packages though ;-)11:49
NgI need to read up on the new hotness for ubuntu branches11:49
Ngheh11:49
seb128dunno where those requests go usually but I know I don't receive them for desktop packages so better to still open a bug asking for sponsoring11:49
james_wseb128: no, *I* get mail :-)11:49
seb128james_w, I see ;-)11:50
Ngjames_w: would you still like the proposal, for completeness?11:50
seb128it might be a good thing if you can handle sponsoring for everything you receive :p11:50
james_wseb128: we can subscribe a desktop team to appropriate branches to get you receiving mails if you like11:50
james_wseb128: I currently explicitly farm out those I can't handle11:50
seb128james_w, I need to think about what that implies before saying yes there ;-)11:51
james_wright11:54
james_wNg: could you try these three patches? https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=541423#c512:01
ubottubugzilla.redhat.com bug 541423 in bash-completion "tab completion of hosts in known_hosts files produce errors" [Medium,Assigned]12:01
seb128tseliot, hey12:05
tseliothi seb12812:05
seb128tseliot, one of the nvidia guys said he found the issue on the gdm lock bug ;-)12:05
seb128tseliot, thanks for pinging them there!12:05
tseliotseb128: np, they are the only people who can fix that ;)12:06
seb128hehe, yeah, but good to know that we can raise issues and have them to look at those12:06
seb128rather than just waiting on maybe to have the issue fixed by luck in some update one day12:07
seb128tseliot, not sure how busy you are and if you read bugmails too but did you see the comments on this touchpad configuration bug?12:07
Ngjames_w: sure12:07
seb128tseliot, the one about having 2 finger click action changes since karmic12:07
tseliotseb128: yes, I've been doing this with both amd and nvidia for a while now. If you have issues, just report them to me and I'll talk to upstream12:07
seb128tseliot, noted, thanks12:07
james_wNg: I'd rather move in the direction upstream has gone for that one, as they seem to be playing whack-a-mole with regressions12:08
mvochrisccoulson: do you have a idea if bug #561040 is a firefox bug or a icedtea6-plugin bug?12:08
ubottuLaunchpad bug 561040 in openjdk-6 "[lucid] icedtea6-plugin becomes deselected on upgrade" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/56104012:08
didrockspitti: I don't have any clue there (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Intrepid/GuestAccount): I must check if I can add a parameter when calling guest-session-setup.sh (the current user GDMSESSION), but I can't find what call this script… Any hint?12:08
tseliotseb128: which one? The one that we declined for Lucid?12:08
seb128tseliot, do you think the touchpad config is something like to still change for lucid now? I've no opinion on what standard touchpad behaviour should be...12:08
seb128tseliot, bug #43281412:08
ubottuLaunchpad bug 432814 in xserver-xorg-input-synaptics "Touchpad: Action for middle and right click is reversed since jaunty" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/43281412:08
seb128tseliot, the lucid task is still open, so if it has been declined could you update the bug?12:09
=== MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch
tseliotseb128: oh, there's no such thing as a better default in this case. A UI should allow users to change this. And it's something that it's been on my todo list for a while now. mpt designed the UI too. So it's a matter of time for me12:10
tseliotsure, I'll update that bug report12:10
seb128tseliot, well, I would say that what other systems are doing would probably be a good default if that's what 90% of users are used to12:11
seb128tseliot, thanks12:11
pittididrocks: (sorry for delay, phone) ah, that's called by gdm, we have a patch for that12:11
didrockspitti: (no pb) oh ok, so no current user info knowledge?12:12
pittididrocks: right now it just calls gnome-session12:12
pittididrocks: no, it's not related to the current user12:12
pittididrocks: what's wrong with it?12:12
didrockshum… tricky, let's try to only use DefaulSession so and not the dmrc12:12
didrockspitti: if you use une, for instance, the guest session is GNOME12:13
didrocksas it launches gnome-session without the good GDMSESSION12:13
pittididrocks: dmrc might be possible, though12:13
pittididrocks: setup.sh writes dmrc anyway12:14
didrocksI've dive a little on that and thought I can fix that easily in the guest session level. I only need to know what's the current session from user clicking on "guest session" in the setup script12:14
pittididrocks: that's indicator-session12:14
didrockspitti: guest-session-setup.sh is called by indicator-session?12:14
pittididrocks: you have to pass it to guest-session-launch, which had to parse it as an argument to the gdm dbus call12:15
pittididrocks: yes12:15
pittididrocks: and gdm has to pass it to setup.sh12:15
pittior just set $GDMSESSION as usual12:15
pittithe latter is probably easier12:15
didrocksok, so indicator-session -> guest-session-launch -> gdm (by dbus) -> guest-session-setup.sh12:15
didrocksright?12:15
pittiright12:15
didrockssweet, giving it as an argument seems feasable :)12:16
didrocksthanks pitti12:16
chrisccoulsonmvo - so, icedtea6-plugin was correctly installed at the end of the upgrade?12:17
pittididrocks: just checking, you need to ensure that this will still run /usr/share/xsessions/guest-restricted.desktop12:20
pittididrocks: because otherwise we'll lose all apparmor confinement12:20
mvochrisccoulson: yes12:21
mvochrisccoulson: and nothing in the logs indicates a error12:21
mvochrisccoulson: however icedtea-gcjplugin was removed12:21
pittididrocks: this makes it quite tricky, I think12:21
mvochrisccoulson: not sure if that is relevant or a red-herring12:21
pittididrocks: setup.sh forces Session=guest-restricted for that reason12:21
chrisccoulsonmvo - i don't think that's relevant, it looks like that was just a transitional package to ensure icedtea6-plugin is installed12:22
didrockspitti: right, I've testing something with a symlink like /usr/share/xsessions/une-guest-restricted.desktop and then launching the same wrapper  setting up GDMSESSION depending an that. It seems to work well12:23
didrockspitti: the only missing bit for me was to tell "which .desktop file to launch", with the dmrc written by guest-session-setup.sh, hence my question :)12:23
mvochrisccoulson: ok, the full logs are in the report, reassign as appropriate (and many thanks for the app-install-data branch update btw)12:24
chrisccoulsonmvo - you're welcome12:25
mvoseb128: bug 560237 contains a bunch of failures, the gthumb one look nasty (if it is correct that it does no longer support old catalogs)12:27
ubottuLaunchpad bug 560237 in update-manager "Ubuntu upgrade to Lucid failed badly!" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/56023712:27
chrisccoulsonpitti - when you remove packages from the archive, is there a record of that kept somewhere? eg, if i wanted to build a list of packages we dropped this cycle, is that easy to do?12:40
pittichrisccoulson: it's recorded in launchpad, on the +changelog page12:40
pittihttps://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mozilla-noscript/+changelog12:41
pitti"Deleted in lucid-release on 2010-04-12  (Reason: unsuportable Mozilla extensions, see https://wiki.ubuntu....) "12:41
chrisccoulsonpitti - ah, but that would mean i'd need to already have a list of packages though12:41
chrisccoulsonthat's the bit i'm trying to find out :)12:41
pittichrisccoulson: alternatively you could grep-dctrl/diff the Sources.gz lists of karmic and lucid12:42
chrisccoulsonpitti - yeah, that's probably a good idea actually. thanks12:42
chrisccoulsoni will try that after i've had some lunch12:42
Ngjames_w: ooi, as I'm hacking/testing away, should I be committing, or turning my changes into patches in debian/patches and committing those?12:46
james_wchrisccoulson: you can also use the LP api and search for source publications in the Deleted state I believe12:47
james_wNg: if the package uses a patch system then you should still follow that12:47
Ngjames_w: fair enough. the shell fu is a bit deep for me, but those three commits applied instead of our patch leave me with working ssh host tab completion, so I'll collapse them into a single patch and push again with that instead of our patch?12:49
james_wyes please12:50
james_wor 3 separate patches is fine, whichever is easiest for you12:50
NgI figured since they're modifying each other, they have no real utility as separate patches, so I just applied them in sequence and have a nice bzr diff of the aggregate result :)12:51
seb128re12:53
Ngjames_w: I expect I've stomped all over best practice, but it's built here, tested and pushed.12:55
seb128mvo, sorry I was having lunch and disconnected12:56
seb128mvo, what was the bug number?12:56
james_wyeah, you've clearly made a mockery of best practice by testing it12:56
Nghaha12:57
mvobug 56023712:59
ubottuLaunchpad bug 560237 in update-manager "Ubuntu upgrade to Lucid failed badly!" [Undecided,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/56023712:59
Ngyou should aim to fail gloriously12:59
seb128mvo, danke13:04
seb128mvo, it's maybe another argument in favor of doing bug #54587113:06
ubottuLaunchpad bug 545871 in gthumb "[lucid] downgrade to stable 2.10" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/54587113:06
mvoseb128: yeah13:06
bdrungseb128, pitti: pushed evolution and hello to the desktop team :)13:08
pittibdrung: thanks! and hello :)13:09
seb128bdrung, hey, thanks!13:09
bdrunglet's see if this team will absorb me13:09
seb128hehe13:09
bdrungthat happens quite regular13:10
james_wNg: doon13:12
Ngjames_w: outstanding, thank you very very much :D13:14
james_wno, thank you13:14
Ngno! ;)13:15
=== MacSlow|lunch is now known as MacSlow
seb128didrocks, pitti: do you know what happened to the downgrade gthumb discussion?13:38
seb128cf bug pointed by mvo before13:39
pittiseb128: I reported a few bugs upstream, and some were fixed; we should do a git pull instead13:39
seb128the new version can't import or read catalogs from previous version13:39
didrocksseb128: I just followed that pitti was more pleased about upstream last changes… nothing else13:39
pittiuh13:39
pittibut I lost sight of it, TBH13:39
pittiI don't have previous catalogs, though, so that never occured to me13:40
seb128me neither13:40
didrockssame here. I can setup a test if you wish13:40
pittithis seems to be quite a bit stronger argument than the various small problems13:40
seb128I'm not sure how common that is13:40
seb128right, I'm wondering if all considered we should just not revert now for lucid13:40
seb128less trouble that trying to play catchup on all those issues13:40
pittiI tend to agree13:41
didrocksyeah, maybe revert is the good choice there13:42
seb128didrocks, can you do it?13:42
didrocksseb128: sure, I'm finishing some gdm test and will do it then13:42
seb128didrocks, thanks13:42
pittimerci didrocks; please let me know if you need help13:42
didrocksyw13:42
didrocksshouldn't be that hard :)13:43
seb128mvo, ^ fyi13:43
pittididrocks: I guess basically take the karmic package, bump version, add changelog, test, upload?13:43
pittididrocks: oh, wait, you said we'd need to fix the gvfs unmounting?13:43
didrockspitti: IIRC, we had an issue with automounting13:43
didrocksright13:43
didrocksI'll have a check again to ensure it's still broken13:44
seb128didn't we have a patch for this in karmic?13:44
pittiseb128: just to avoid double work, did you already talk to teuf about bug 544994? I was going to take a stab at this now13:44
ubottuLaunchpad bug 544994 in rhythmbox "the rhythmbox mtp code hijacks cameras" [Medium,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/54499413:44
seb128I though the desktop was calling gvfs-umount13:44
pittiseb128: yes, and that still ought to work13:45
pittinot sure whether it was the .desktop or gthumb itself13:45
seb128pitti, I mentioned it on #rhythmbox but we didn't really get anywhere about it13:45
pittiseb128: ok, thanks13:45
seb128pitti, so you are welcome to ping teuf about it13:45
pittiseb128: how is your Apple working with lucid these days, BTW?13:46
pittianything that we still need to polish?13:46
* pitti has never seen the afc backend in action13:46
seb128pitti, it's working well, no polish required that I noticed no13:46
seb128good work to upstream, teuf, you ;-)13:47
pittigood to hear13:47
pittiI think the udisks/gdu/gvfs stack has come together in lucid13:47
seb128yes13:49
seb128let's see if the rest of the stack get cleaned and on shape with GNOME3 now13:50
pittiI just saw vuntz' gsettings blog, nice13:50
baptistemmyep13:51
seb128didn't read that one yet13:51
* seb128 looks13:51
seb128brb session restart13:51
tseliotseb128: about bug #432814. I think gnome-settings-daemon is using whatever upstream decided to be the default i.e. 1 3 213:55
ubottuLaunchpad bug 432814 in xserver-xorg-input-synaptics "Touchpad: Action for middle and right click is reversed since jaunty" [Undecided,Invalid] https://launchpad.net/bugs/43281413:55
tseliotwhile the synaptics driver uses 1 2 3. g-s-d overrides the default settings in synaptics though13:55
seb128tseliot, do you think we should change the default in gsd?13:59
tseliotseb128: yes, maybe. I'm still trying to figure out what is reversed with respect to what ;)14:05
hyperairdoes anyone know if ubuntu has 3-button moues emulation enabled by default?14:05
seb128tseliot, thanks14:06
tseliothyperair: you can check it yourself by doing xinput list-props "name of your device"14:06
hyperairtseliot: i know *my* configuration. i want to know if it's enabled by default.14:07
hyperairtseliot: i added a fdi file to only enable 3-button emulation on touchpads, i just can't remember what it was originally.14:07
tseliothyperair: wait, what do you mean by 3 button emulation?14:10
hyperairtseliot: left+rightclick = middleclick14:10
tseliotmiddle button emulation seems to be enabled in evdev14:11
=== njpatel_ is now known as njpatel
hyperairtseliot: okay, that's what i wanted to know, thanks =)14:12
tseliotnp14:12
seb128pitti, btw you can use rhythmbox -D mtp to get debug log for mtp only14:21
pittiseb128: *nod*, I know14:21
seb128pitti, just in case you didn't know and it would be handy14:21
pittimerci!14:21
seb128pitti, ok, I though I would just mention it ;-)14:21
seb128de rien!14:21
seb128ls14:22
seb128ups14:22
pittiseb128: (I'm not using it, it's still way too verbose; I roughly know what happens, and I'm figuring out the libmtp API now, and stepping through with nemiver)14:23
seb128ok14:24
tseliotseb128: ok, so after a closer look at the bug, what they suggest is divert from what upstream set in g-s-d as we already do in synaptics. Fine by me. Shall I fix this?14:25
seb128tseliot, you know better than me what would be the best default I think, feel free to update g-s-d to use by default whatever makes sense or is coherent with what we had14:26
tseliotseb128: ok14:26
seb128re14:38
seb128does anybody think we need manpages for applets?14:40
seb128I'm cleaning gnome-applets to stop shipping manpages for applets which are not shipped there14:41
seb128ie the mixer one14:41
seb128but half of the manpages don't match a binary and the other ones have wrong names or are buddy and are for things not in bin path anyway14:42
seb128I'm pondering just dropping those (shipping those is a debian specific change)14:42
didrocksdropping is better than having deprecated or partially false info14:44
didrocks(IMHO)14:44
seb128ok, I take that as a no objection, I'm building it now, if nobody tells me to stop I will clean those in lucid ;-)14:45
kenvandineseb128, good idea14:49
rickspencer3hello all14:56
seb128rickspencer3, hey14:56
kenvandinehey rickspencer314:56
kenvandinerickspencer3, i fixed that bug :)14:57
rickspencer3kenvandine, sweet14:57
rickspencer3though I was never in doubt14:57
rickspencer3:)14:57
kenvandinewell, almost... it made me realize something else that needs attention :)14:57
rickspencer3uhoh14:57
rickspencer3well, good thing desktopcouch finally got fixed14:57
kenvandineyup :)14:57
kenvandineit will get uploaded soon14:57
rickspencer3now we have another round of bugs to discover before it's too late14:58
kenvandinehehe14:58
rickspencer3wasn't kidding, actually ;)14:58
rickspencer3you always find bugs when you finally get things workng end to end14:58
kenvandinei know... but i just have to laugh or go nuts14:58
rickspencer3:)14:59
kenvandinethe bug was we raised GwibberException for the same failure twice14:59
kenvandineone of which is in the main thread that caused it to exit15:00
rickspencer3kenvandine, I was simply *reading* (not even running) some of my quidgets code last neight, and I saw 2 bugs15:00
kenvandineso my new discovery, in fixing this bug15:00
kenvandineis we notify the user of the failed keyring look up 3 times for the same account15:00
kenvandineall at the exact same time15:00
kenvandineso you get 3 dialogs at once15:01
rickspencer3oops15:01
kenvandineso we need a way to track that we have notified the user15:01
kenvandinethe problem is, it happens so fast... all in parallel threads15:01
didrockshey rickspencer315:02
rickspencer3hi didrocks15:02
rickspencer3how are you?15:02
didrocksI'm fine, thanks, working on last annoying bugs :)15:02
kenvandinethe dialog does check to see if there is an existing window from the same progname and raise it instead of opening a new one..15:02
didrocksyou?15:02
kenvandinebut since it happens at the exact same time, that fails15:03
pittihey rickspencer315:07
rickspencer3hi pitti15:07
rickspencer3<didrocks> I'm fine, thanks, working on last annoying bugs :)15:07
rickspencer3that sounds good15:07
seb128didrocks, you are sure we are running out of annoying bugs? ;-)15:07
rickspencer3better than "last crashers"15:07
seb128didrocks, I can give you some from my list if you want :p15:07
* didrocks hides :)15:07
rickspencer3didrocks, I'm fine, in fact, my wife inadvertently turned off my alarm, so I slept an extra 45 minutes15:08
rickspencer3it was awesome!15:08
rickspencer3total guilt free oversleeping15:08
didrockspitti, seb128: ok, got the guest session working depending on the flavor you are running. This include two uploads (gdm and gdm-guest-session). If people just install one of those, the guest session won't work. I think that doesn't deserve a Break:15:08
didrocksrickspencer3: heh, "it wasn't your fault" :)15:08
rickspencer3of course, if I heard this excuse from one of you guys, I'd be really suspicious ;)15:09
pittididrocks: you can at least bump the gdm dependency of g-guest-sessio15:09
pittin15:09
seb128rickspencer3, good one, next time I feel lazy I will tell people that the can stepped on the alarm clock button when I join ;-)15:09
didrockspitti: right, can do that15:09
seb128didrocks, what pitti said15:10
pittiseb128: urgh, the Malevolent Coke Can From Hell?15:10
* didrocks throws out his alarm clock15:10
seb128the ca*t*15:10
seb128I should really start reading what I type ;-)15:10
pittiargh15:10
kenvandinehehe... with young kids, i haven't slept until my alarm went off in years :/15:11
pittinow I wrote such a nice function to see whether a device in Rhythmbox is actually an audio player15:11
pittibut my camer actually supports .wav files15:11
seb128pitti, speaking of coke can I watched some tv show where they explains how much trouble those create for french trains every year15:11
pittiseb128: how so? shouldn't be much worse than coffee, except making you fat?15:11
seb128pitti, getting stucked between both rail parts and turn on the "other train on the line" detection and stopping trains15:11
pittioh, cans15:11
pittiindeed15:11
rickspencer3kenvandine, anything we need to do (and by "we" I mean you ;) ) for bug #562618?15:12
seb128pitti, yes15:12
ubottuLaunchpad bug 562618 in ubuntuone-client "desktopcouch should automatically start replicating when files sync" [High,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/56261815:12
seb128pitti, lol15:12
seb128pitti, see, it's a multimedia player, it can even do avi recording!15:12
pittiyes, it can..15:12
kenvandinerickspencer3, i will follow-up15:12
pittiseb128: do you have a camera which is a bit less ambitious?15:12
seb128pitti, no, I've a canon a9515:13
seb128I guess it's the same15:13
seb128I can check if you want15:13
rickspencer3will be hard to find a camera that doesn't take movies I think15:13
pittibut movies are uninteresting for Rhythmbox15:13
pittiseb128: install mtp-tools and run mtp-detect15:14
seb128pitti, how do I see if it claims handling wav?15:14
pittilibmtp supported (playable) filetypes:15:14
pitti   Audio Video Interleave15:14
pitti   RIFF WAVE file15:14
pitti   JPEG file15:14
seb128libmtp supported (playable) filetypes:15:15
seb128   JPEG file15:15
seb128   Audio Video Interleave15:15
seb128   RIFF WAVE file15:15
seb128pitti, ^15:15
pittiok15:15
* pitti tries if that actually works in RB, before getting out a bigger hammer15:15
seb128pitti, you didn't filter out on the udev music player id thing?15:15
pittiseb128: I'm a bit worried on filtering devices which RB actually can deal with15:16
seb128pitti, in case some are working but not listed in libmtp rules?15:17
pittiyes15:17
seb128hum, yeah, I can see that15:17
seb128though the way forward might be to just add those missing to libmtp15:17
seb128but right, it's a bit late for that in lucid15:17
pittiI can't even figure out how to record a .wav on that thing15:18
pitti(16:25:06) [0xb27040] [create_source_device_cb] rb-mtp-plugin.c:422: device is not an audio player, ignoring15:25
pittihah15:25
kklimondawhat is the reason for disabling report a problem menu item? can I read about it somewhere?15:31
kklimondaok, I think the full specification makes some sense15:34
seb128kklimonda, users usually want to use the answer tracker to have somebody looking at their issue rather than report bugs15:35
kklimondaseb128: mhm, that was my gut feeling too - thanks for the clarification15:36
pittiseb128: ok for me to upload RB? (for the camera fix)15:49
seb128pitti, yes please, there is nothing in git pending upload and I've nothing locally15:50
* seb128 hugs pitti15:50
* pitti hugs back seb12815:50
robert_ancellwho suggest the skype/empathy integration blueprint idea?  Is that feasible?  That would be so awesome...15:50
seb128robert_ancell, I would say it's rickspencer3 but I'm not sure15:51
rickspencer3robert_ancell, well ... someone requested that I include it15:51
rickspencer3I think OEM services or such15:51
seb128robert_ancell, looking for new challenges in the next cycle? ;-)15:51
robert_ancellyeah, I'd work on that!15:52
robert_ancellthe skype ui leaves a lot to be desired.  Proper integration would be awesome15:52
robert_ancellI was just using it a few hours ago and I wanted to share my desktop.  You could do that much easier with something like empathy...15:53
pittididrocks: can you please push your gdm-guest-session changes to bzr?15:54
tseliotseb128: I've just uploaded the fix for g-s-d15:54
seb128tseliot, thanks!15:54
seb128robert_ancell, you can already do that with empathy15:55
tseliotseb128: np. Note: I haven't touched its bzr branch (if it uses one)15:55
seb128tseliot, oh, come come you didn't? yes there is one as documented in the control15:56
seb128tseliot, could you update it too?15:56
tseliotseb128: because I have bad memory ;)15:56
tseliotsure15:56
seb128tseliot, thanks15:56
didrockspitti: it's done normally (~ubuntu-desktop/ubuntu/lucid/gdm-guest-session/ubuntu) following your last value in the control file: ~ubuntu-desktop/ubuntu/karmic/gdm-guest-session/ubuntu15:56
seb128tseliot, apt-get source should tell you about those btw15:56
tseliotright but my multitasking doesn't help :-P15:57
seb128didrocks, btw where is the french layout bug now? waiting on replies in the fdo bugzilla bug?16:05
pittididrocks: hm, it should be lucid now, I suppose16:06
didrocksseb128: yeah, I think that I'll still leave 2 hours before we take a decision16:06
seb128didrocks, did svu had any useful hint?16:06
pittididrocks: anyway, I pulled from /karmic/ here, and no updates16:06
didrockspitti: it's ubuntu-desktop/ubuntu/lucid/gdm-guest-session/ubuntu16:06
pittididrocks: ah, thanks16:06
didrockspitti: yw16:06
didrocksseb128: nothing more than the discussion we had yesterday16:07
didrocksseb128: so, what we can do is to include level4n instead of level4nl16:07
didrockswe will loose the 5th modifier key, which isn't that much16:07
didrocksif we add the right ctrl key manually as the 5th level, we will be back in the bug in 2008…16:08
seb128didrocks, ok16:09
seb128which is better than the one we have now imho16:09
didrocksright16:09
didrocksand not including the 5th level will avoid us the bug in 2008 (right ctrl not working in virtualbox, for instance)16:09
didrockswe will just loose this modifier key… not a big deal I guess (it's been 2 days I'm living without it, noticed nothing annoying myself)16:10
seb128ok good16:10
seb128I would say to do the change16:10
seb128if it annoys really people who are keyboard geeks that make wake them to comment on the bug with suggestions :p16:11
didrocksok, finishing the gthumb test first (it seems to me that the previous version upgraded my import files too, but well, let's downgrade it)16:13
didrocksthe previous version in lucid is importing my photo from my camera correctly this time. Don't know what happened a couple of month ago16:13
asac17:18 < asac> anyone has a hotmail account ;)16:19
asac17:18 < asac> whats the url to go to to get to the inbox?16:19
rickspencer3Amaranth, hi, I'm interested in your thoughts on bug #55663116:22
ubottuLaunchpad bug 556631 in compiz "Compiz showing corruption because not refusing to run when rez > max texture size" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/55663116:22
rickspencer3is this truly a high?16:22
Amaranthrickspencer3: Well, I commented on it :)16:22
rickspencer3oh16:22
rickspencer3Amaranth, but a "High"?16:23
rickspencer3seems your comments suggest it is not tractable, and perhaps not a High16:23
Amaranthrickspencer3: Yeah16:23
AmaranthI think it got High because it's a regression16:24
james_wchrisccoulson: hey, two things. 1) is there a replacement for the libmozjs0d package in xul 1.9, or was it dropped as it shouldn't be used externally. 2) did you get anywhere with that SoC student?16:29
AmaranthAlthough that may not be true either16:29
Amaranthrickspencer3: It's either a regression or the real bug is that when running compiz and attaching a second monitor it doesn't do the checks again16:30
chrisccoulsonjames_w - 1) there isn't a replacement, as applications shouldn't be using that directly16:30
chrisccoulson2) I've not had a chance to speak to the SoC student yet, but was going to mail him later16:30
james_wcool16:31
rickspencer3Amaranth, the bug is currently a release blocker16:31
AmaranthAlthough I thought that would no longer be the case with the code in lucid, was hoping when ever compiz ran in to this kind of situation it would go back to metacity even if the checks allowed it to start16:31
kenvandinerickspencer3, desktopcouch uploaded, and gwibber fix uploaded :)16:31
james_wthe deadline is close16:31
rickspencer3would you consider decreasing the importance?16:31
* kenvandine -> lunch16:31
rickspencer3kenvandine, sweeeet!16:31
james_wchrisccoulson: is there a usual thing that is done with bugs like bug 536643 then?16:31
ubottuLaunchpad bug 536643 in mediatomb "Missing dependencies (libmozjs0d)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53664316:31
chrisccoulsonjames_w - i'm not entirely familiar with what i need to do for the deadline. i can probably find out, but perhaps you can already tell me what i need to do16:32
chrisccoulsoni'm registered as a mentor for Ubuntu now16:32
james_wchrisccoulson: you need to click "I'm willing to mentor this application" if you are, and then vote on how good you think it is16:32
Amaranthrickspencer3: If the bug is that running `compiz` with both monitors enabled allows this situation then it probably should be High but if the bug is that attaching a second monitor while compiz is running causes this I would lower it16:33
chrisccoulsonjames_w - the usual thing for bugs like bug 536643 is to drop the application ;)16:33
ubottuLaunchpad bug 536643 in mediatomb "Missing dependencies (libmozjs0d)" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53664316:33
chrisccoulsonbut, i can probably look at that and see if it's fixable16:33
james_wchrisccoulson: if you could take a 2 minute look to start that would be great.16:33
chrisccoulsonjames_w - in general, applications should be using the XPCOM glue to find the library (which we put in an unstable path, whose location changes with each new version)16:34
Nafaimorning16:34
chrisccoulsonbut, it can be "fixed" with some LD_LIBRARY_PATH magic16:34
rickspencer3hi Nafai16:34
NafaiHI rickspencer316:35
chrisccoulsonalthough i wouldn't encourage that as a long term solution16:35
rickspencer3Nafai I bet you can guess what I am gong to ask you ;)16:49
NafaiI'm fine, thank you :)16:49
Nafaij/k16:49
NafaiI've got one more avenue to go down and then I'm going to reach out for help this morning16:49
* hyperair wonders if gwibber has been stubborn for anyone else besides me where twitter is concerned16:49
Amaranthrickspencer3: In that reporter's .xsession-errors he gets "/usr/bin/compiz (core) - Warn: Exceeded max texture size" but I changed that to a fatal error16:50
Amaranthoh, no I didn't, it's still a warning but immediately after the warning it calls launchFallbackWM()16:55
chrisccoulson_james_w, ok, it looks possible to compile without spidermonkey support16:56
rickspencer3Amaranth, do you feel that we need to focus on this bug, and not ship if we don't resolve it?16:56
chrisccoulson_i would probably just do that in lucid tbh16:56
james_wchrisccoulson_: sounds reasonable16:56
james_wperhaps just drop a note in the bug16:56
chrisccoulson_james_w - yeah, i can do that16:57
Amaranthrickspencer3: Well considering him getting the warning means he is running the code I wrote to make compiz stop loading it could certainly be a big issue if that code isn't working16:59
Amaranthrickspencer3: Because that means it's possible that code isn't working for the other cases where we stop trying to load compiz and use metacity instead16:59
rickspencer3hmm17:00
rickspencer3ok17:00
rickspencer3Amaranth, who should the bug be assigned to then?17:00
* rickspencer3 hint hint ;)17:00
Amaranthheh17:00
rickspencer3the subtly is awesome17:00
AmaranthI wonder if some of the process state compiz sets up (signal handling and such) is causing issues when execlp launches metacity17:11
AmaranthBut if metacity is not found it'll launch xterm and if either one of those are not found or fail to start (execlp returns) compiz immediately calls exit(EXIT_FAILURE) so that shouldn't do anything either17:12
AmaranthSo somehow even though the warning and the call to launchFallbackWM are inside the same if block one is getting called but not the other...17:13
Amaranthbut we know this code is working for other people because someone filed a bug complaining about their 2048xsomething resolution no longer working with compiz since we changed to check for >= max texture size17:16
nigelbdidrocks, anything more I need to do for cheese?17:16
didrocksnigelb: sorry, I didn't have the time to test it again since the last crash, I'll have a free slot in few minutes, can you paste me again the bug report, please?17:17
nigelbdidrocks, just the bug number?17:17
didrocksnigelb: yes :)17:18
nigelbbug 54209117:18
ubottuLaunchpad bug 542091 in cheese "Add apport hook for cheese" [Wishlist,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/54209117:18
nigelbwho deals with pitivi by the way?17:18
didrocksnigelb: thanks17:19
nigelbthere is a bug fix sitting with ack from release team, bug 314885.  If someone can look into it, would be great :)17:19
ubottuLaunchpad bug 314885 in pitivi "Don't show version number in titlebar" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/31488517:19
didrocksoh, seems easy, can have a look too17:19
vishnigelb: kiddo17:19
nigelbthank you :)17:19
vishfor pitivi^17:19
nigelbvish, huh?17:19
vishnigelb: https://launchpad.net/~kiddo17:20
nigelbvish, ah.  thanks :)17:20
didrocksseb128: ok, uploaded xkeyboard-config, tell me if it fixes for you. I'm happily using the space bar in rhythmbox now :)17:20
seb128didrocks, waouh, thanks!17:21
didrocksvish: is kiddo a core-dev? I guess vish was asking for someone with upload rights17:27
didrockss/vish/nigelb/ (for the second occurence) :)17:27
vishdidrocks: oh , no he is just for pitivi contact17:27
didrocksnigelb: will have a look to sponsor this one for you too, so17:27
nigelbyeah, I was asking for someone with upload rights.  I wanted the Desktop Team guy for pitivi :)17:28
nigelbdidrocks, thanks again :)17:28
vishnigelb:  he usually helps in upstream contacts for pitivi17:28
rickspencer3bug #55222117:31
ubottuLaunchpad bug 552221 in gnome-media "Volume Control "gnome-volume-control-applet" entry is removed from Startup Applications "gnome-session-properties" after release-upgrade to Lucid" [Medium,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/55222117:31
nigelbmvo, will you be able to get this fix in? bug 15434917:31
ubottuLaunchpad bug 154349 in synaptic "synaptic won't remember certain preferences" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15434917:31
seb128rickspencer3, it's not a bug17:33
rickspencer3seb128, ok17:33
seb128rickspencer3, we don't run the gnome-media sound applet but use the indicator now17:33
seb128rickspencer3, so we masked the GNOME one from the autostart list17:33
seb128so users don't get both started17:33
rickspencer3seb128, I just got pinged about this by komputes17:33
rickspencer3rather thane explain to me, can you just comment on the bug17:34
* rickspencer3 is super lazy today :)17:34
seb128rickspencer3, I'm already late for sport so I need to run now but I will do that when I'm back17:34
seb128bbl17:34
rickspencer3seb128, k17:35
rickspencer3thanks seb12817:35
didrocksnigelb: apart from the fact that you had "karmic" in the changelog, it was all good. Fixed and cheese uploaded. Thanks :)17:36
nigelbdidrocks, yeah, doing stuff in the evening after 12 hours at work tends to drain my concentration.  thanks again.17:37
didrocksyw17:37
nigelbouch, so I need to poke someone about that software center bug.17:38
mvonigelb: its on my "look at things" list, that list is currently long unfortunately :(17:38
nigelbmvo, aaah. the final freeze being hours away got me worried :)17:39
nigelbmvo, I'm just going through the patches I've reviewed for things that can go into lucid17:39
mvonigelb: there are some other synaptic fixes pending17:40
nigelbmvo, ah.  No problem :)17:41
didrockssee you seb12817:41
didrocksnigelb: and pitivi sponsored (refreshed to apply against last version), good work :)17:49
nigelbdidrocks, yaay! thanks again.17:49
didrocksok, let's go now into my most important task of the day (I think rickspencer3 will agree): releasing Quickly 0.4 :)17:49
didrocks(kidding)17:49
nigelbdidrocks, sorry about the debdiff being stale.  I did it quite some time back :)17:50
rickspencer3yeah!17:50
Nafaididrocks: w0017:50
didrocksnigelb: well, next time, we'll see together how to do that with bzr if you wish :)17:50
nigelbdidrocks, I know the bzr method.  probably in maverick, I'll use that exclusively17:50
didrocksnigelb: sweet, it'll make merge so easy :)17:51
nigelbah, I'll keep that in mind :)17:52
=== mpt_ is now known as mpt
czajkowskikenvandine: ping18:14
kenvandineczajkowski, pong18:14
czajkowskikenvandine: in gwibber should you really be able to seem dms which you've deleted on the web ?18:15
kenvandineyes18:16
kenvandinehumm18:16
kenvandinegwibber caches them18:16
kenvandinebut doesn't know it has been deleted on the web18:16
kenvandinei wonder if the API has a way to find those18:16
czajkowskitis just a thought :)18:17
kenvandineczajkowski, can you please file a bug?18:18
kenvandinewe should consider that for next cycle18:18
czajkowskikenvandine: lovely will do :)18:18
kenvandinethank you!18:18
* Nafai lunches18:34
kenvandineNafai, enjoy!18:36
rickspencer3wow18:40
rickspencer3didrocks, lots of "Fix Released" in my inbox!18:40
milanbvchrisccoulson: I guess it will be hard to get the stb 2.10.0 in Lucid before the release...18:41
rickspencer3seb128, didrocks, pitti, kenvandine, chrisccoulson, everyone else ...18:41
rickspencer3check it out ...18:41
rickspencer3http://is.gd/bszVI18:41
rickspencer3so 99 papercuts fixed in Lucid18:41
rickspencer3but some bugs with patches18:41
rickspencer3anyway we could pick out a couple of these patches and put it over 100?18:41
rickspencer3that would be really cool18:42
rickspencer3just 1 more18:42
milanbvrickspencer3: I have one :-)18:42
milanbva student is working on time-admin18:42
rickspencer3milanbv, a fixed paper cut you can upload?18:42
milanbvthere's a patch18:42
kenvandinerickspencer3, i'll look18:43
milanbvbug 55193618:43
ubottuLaunchpad bug 551936 in gnome-system-tools "[time-admin] Value of "Configuration" doesn't change on initial switch to "Keep synchronized with Internet servers"" [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/55193618:43
rickspencer3hmmm18:43
milanbvhe was going to make the patch available in a PPA, patch is not tested yet18:43
nigelbrickspencer3, I can get a debdiff of bug 150690 if you can test it from my ppa18:43
ubottuLaunchpad bug 150690 in libwnck "Can't drag a window to another workspace" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/15069018:43
milanbvbut it should work18:43
rickspencer3any of these that don't break visual freeze, and are very low risk, may be worth picking off18:43
milanbvrickspencer3: if you want, he'll be glad to make a debdiff quickly (he'sin a hurry)18:44
rickspencer3but I think pitti needs to weight in here18:44
asacseems bug 314885 was also fixed in ubuntu ... but isnt marked as fixed in the papercuts project18:44
ubottuLaunchpad bug 314885 in pitivi "Don't show version number in titlebar" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/31488518:44
rickspencer3as the pointer haired manager, of course I will ask for more bug fixing ;)18:44
rickspencer3djsiegel, ^18:44
asacheh. thats 32 minutes ago i just saw ;)18:44
rickspencer3you know what's up with the pitivi bug?18:44
rickspencer3so that puts us to 100?18:44
milanbvargh, too many easy to fix bugs!18:45
rickspencer3well, if folks put the effort into making the patches, seems like it would be nice to consider them18:45
rickspencer3but I defer to pitti18:45
rickspencer3he is in charge of delivery, not me ;)18:45
milanbvjust tell me, else he will provide an updated patch and we'll see later18:46
pittirickspencer3: re18:46
pittirickspencer3: bug 314885 is fixed, closing that; does that put us to 100?18:46
ubottuLaunchpad bug 314885 in pitivi "Don't show version number in titlebar" [Low,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/31488518:46
pittiah, so said asac already18:47
pittirickspencer3: it's worth having a look at the list, anyway, although it gets quite tight18:48
rickspencer3pitti, ack18:48
djsiegelkind of a weak paper cut... :)18:48
djsiegelbut let's count it!18:48
asacnext time we go for 100k ;)18:48
chrisccoulson_has somebody highlighted my other name in the last few minutes? i see the icon on my laptop, but i can't use it to find out who ;)18:48
asac100 is too easy18:48
chrisccoulson_(i'm on my desktop atm)18:49
djsiegelwould love to see other projects remove version numbers from their titlebars18:49
djsiegelso it's a good example even if it's super tiny18:49
djsiegelSo, that's 76 paper cuts fixed in Karmic, then 100 in Lucid18:49
djsiegeland it's possible that more than 100 were fixed in lucid18:49
djsiegelbecause we have 176 fixed in hundredpapercuts, and I just subtracted 76 from that to get the lucid total18:50
chrisccoulson_oh, i see now, it was milanbv and rickspencer3 ;)18:50
djsiegelif any of the 76 for karmic were marked fixed incorrectly, we may have more than 100 for luci18:50
djsiegeld18:50
pittirickspencer3: I wonder why so few, if any, of them are in the sponsoring queue18:53
rickspencer3pitti, dunno18:54
rickspencer3must be a bit of a breakdown there18:54
pittiphone again, bbl18:55
* rickspencer3 lunch -> gym18:55
rickspencer3bbl18:55
rickspencer3pitti, if you guys could scrub that list and make sure there aren't a few more fixes that would make sense to upload ...18:59
rickspencer3I would really appreciate that18:59
didrocksrickspencer3: I'll try now19:03
didrocks(back from dinner)19:03
pittiseb128, rickspencer3: I found three which we could still upload19:05
didrockspitti: needs help to review them?19:06
pittibug 272792, bug 495723, bug 55019519:06
ubottuLaunchpad bug 272792 in hundredpapercuts "Ellipsize long folder names in the location bar" [Low,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/27279219:06
ubottuLaunchpad bug 495723 in hundredpapercuts "the copy action doesn't work in the second after a directory load" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/49572319:06
ubottuLaunchpad bug 550195 in gnome-media "when volume is on 0 and moved up the volume doesn't update" [Low,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/55019519:06
pittididrocks: if you have some minutes, grab one?19:06
didrockssure, taking first one first :)19:07
pittididrocks: could you perhaps do 550195? it's easy to test and the patch looks rather easy?19:07
didrocksok19:07
pittiok, great; thanks19:07
pittididrocks: I'll do the gnome-media one then19:07
didrocksok :)19:07
chrisccoulson_pitti - are you free to do another couple of extension removals? :)19:10
pittichrisccoulson_: can do19:11
pittiah, I can't19:12
chrisccoulson_pitti - oh, how come?19:12
pittiguests just arrived, sorry :)19:13
pittiso I'm off for today19:13
pittisee you all tomorrow!19:13
rickspencer3bye pitti19:13
=== dpm is now known as dpm-afk
chrisccoulson_pitti - ok, no worries. have a good evening :)19:14
didrocksenjoy your evening pitti19:14
didrockspitti: rickspencer3: won't update the nautilus location bar patch. It's quite hackish with hard coded value, the upstream bug also lack of comments19:19
rickspencer3didrocks, good19:19
rickspencer3use your judgement19:20
didrockswould be bad to break everything before final freeze :)19:20
rickspencer3yes19:20
rickspencer3would be bad to not apply patches that make sense too19:20
rickspencer3so you're doing the right thing19:20
rickspencer3thanks, didrocks19:20
* rickspencer3 leaves again19:20
rickspencer3bbiab19:20
didrockssee you rickspencer319:20
didrocksasac: what's the url of the paperput project to see the number of closed one?19:26
didrocksjust the sum of the "Milestone-targeted bugs"? in the project page :)19:28
didrocksit's 48 if I only counting that. Should miss something19:28
didrocksdjsiegel: ^19:31
didrocksdjsiegel: oh, backlog your comment, ok, you substract the number :)19:32
djsiegelhttp://is.gd/bsHWc19:32
djsiegelthat's all Fix Committed + Fix Released19:32
djsiegelin hundredpapercuts19:32
didrocksyeah, and you are sure that we had 76 fixed in karmic?19:32
didrocksmilanbv: if he's eager to update his patch now. I can apply it19:41
milanbvdidrocks: OK19:41
milanbvI tell him19:41
djsiegeldidrocks: yes, 76 in karmic19:43
djsiegeldidrocks: http://davidsiegel.org/100papercuts-karmic-lucid/19:44
didrocksdjsiegel: sweet, we will have 101 at least for lucid so :)19:44
* djsiegel high-fives didrocks (and misses)19:45
djsiegeloops, I missed19:45
didrocksheh19:45
milanbvdidrocks: what's the deadline for the patch?19:49
didrocksmilanbv: I'll certainly quit in one hour and I don't know if the freeze will be tomorrow morning or later19:49
didrocksI can adapt the patch then…19:49
milanbvdidrocks: he's currently merging it19:52
didrocksmilanbv: nice!19:52
milanbvdidrocks: here's xiegai, who's fixing the paper cut in time-amdin20:00
didrockshey xiegai :)20:01
xiegaididrocks,  hi20:01
milanbvI have to go, I let you see how you can upload that fix20:04
didrocksmilanbv: sure, enjoy your evening20:05
didrocksxiegai: do you need any help?20:05
milanbvI've attached a patch, but I've just noticed xiegai has come to the same result20:06
milanbvthey are likely to be the same :-)20:06
milanbvgood luck!20:06
didrocksseeing that, having a look now20:07
didrocksxiegai: your change seems good. Uploading now20:23
vishdidrocks:hi..  what about http://bugzilla-attachments.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=157906 , it is for an lp papercut bug , but hasnt moved upstream ?20:23
vishBug #50333020:23
ubottuLaunchpad bug 503330 in nautilus "In the file operation dialog, the file count and the size count change in opposite direction." [Low,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/50333020:23
xiegaididrocks,  Thanks very much.20:24
didrocksxiegai: I still have one issue though (after first install, after closing the window and relaunch it, it seems to keep on manual… if you want to have a look)20:24
xiegaididrocks,  ok I 'll see that20:25
didrocksxiegai: thank you for your contribution :) pushed now20:28
didrocksvish: looking20:29
didrocksvish: well, let's discuss it for next cycle if upstream doesn't integrate it. It requires UI and strings change and we are passed the two freeze (in addition, I don't think we will get exception before final freeze)20:31
vishdidrocks: right , UIF .. thanks for looking :)20:32
didrocksvish: you're welcome, keep it warm for maverick :)20:32
seb128re20:37
rickspencer3bryceh, hi21:26
seb128rickspencer3, wb21:28
rickspencer3thanks seb12821:28
seb128rickspencer3, those hundredpapercut with patches you listed before, there quite some of not most of those which got reviewed and are not good for upload21:28
seb128rickspencer3, launchpad doesn't have a way to handle patch status to say that though...21:29
rickspencer3seb128, right21:29
rickspencer3as I said to didrocks, just use good judgement21:29
rickspencer3if it seems "might as well", then do it21:29
rickspencer3otherwise, move on, don't discuss it21:29
seb128right, just commenting on why is seems we have so much patches waiting21:29
seb128is -> it21:30
rickspencer3if len(appropriate_patches) == 0:21:30
rickspencer3   rin21:30
kenvandinerickspencer3, desktopcouch and gwibber fixes are still in the queue to biuld21:30
rickspencer3fine21:30
kenvandinebut soon21:30
rickspencer3thanks kenvandine21:30
rickspencer3I'm looking forward21:30
kenvandinerickspencer3, please let me know when you get to test them :)21:30
rickspencer3will do21:30
* kenvandine is anxious to see if it works for you :)21:30
rickspencer3you are guys are all just rocking~21:30
rickspencer3this has been a grest week21:30
kenvandinerickspencer3, also the other replication bug for u1, they plan to address it by tomorrow21:31
kenvandineit's being worked21:31
* kenvandine had a very productive day at the coffee shop, need to do that more often21:31
rickspencer3good!21:33
brycehgrest?21:33
rickspencer3grest = great for bad typists21:33
kenvandine:-D21:33
rickspencer3like a great rest21:33
brycehthought it was some permutation of grisly ;-)21:34
brycehwhich would be descriptive for my week ;-)21:34
rickspencer3bryceh, sorry dude21:35
rickspencer3bryceh, I meant to ask, have you synced with apw on the 845/855 thing?21:35
rickspencer3I kinda forgot to mention this to the kernel team21:36
rickspencer3:/21:36
kenvandinerickspencer3, did you ever push a slip-cover branch anywhere?21:37
rickspencer3lp:slip-cover21:37
brycehactually it's just been a busy week, shifting time between X and multitouch has me feeling schitzo %-)21:37
rickspencer3it's also in my ppa21:37
kenvandineseb128, btw libproxy 0.4.0 didn't build on first try for me, and i haven't had time to mess with it :/21:37
brycehrickspencer3, yeah talked with apw about it just a bit ago, we're going to just blacklist all the 8xx chips except 865 and hope that helps21:38
kenvandinei did change packaging to handle cmake21:38
brycehrickspencer3, I'd have liked to see more testing be done, but we just don't have the time21:38
rickspencer3bryceh, is this change going in today?21:38
brycehrickspencer3, yeah apw says it'll go in the next kernel update21:39
rickspencer3ah21:39
brycehunfortunately blacklisting requires doing a kernel rev21:39
rickspencer3it's in the kernel21:39
rickspencer3I thought it was in -intel21:39
rickspencer3shows how useless I am21:39
brycehno21:39
seb128kenvandine, ok, seems late for lucid anyway to add new features to gwibber etc21:39
kenvandineyeah21:40
brycehrickspencer3, you might be thinking of RAOF's patch to switch of DRI, which went in yesterday21:40
kenvandineseb128, i want to focus on what we have :)21:40
brycehtesting so far shows it reduced the frequency but didn't solve it21:40
rickspencer3fuuudge21:40
rickspencer3bryceh, I was thinking of RAOF21:40
rickspencer3s DRI patch21:40
rickspencer3so you are blacklisting for KMS too?21:41
brycehyep21:41
brycehyou know, part of me thinks we may be chasing a corner case21:41
rickspencer3mmm21:41
rickspencer3could be21:41
rickspencer3but we are running out of time, so I think your extra caution is good21:41
rickspencer3I like the idea of focusing on 845/855 functionality in a PPA or similar21:42
brycehyeah21:42
rickspencer3and deliver stability with the main release21:42
kenvandinerickspencer3, so running slip-cover from the bzr branch i get a strange server info tab21:42
rickspencer3then in .1 we can cut over21:42
rickspencer3kenvandine, that's not strange21:42
rickspencer3that's my beautiful code21:42
kenvandinewell what can i do with it?21:42
kenvandinehehe21:42
brycehrickspencer3, well, we've gone well beyond the call of duty communicating the 8xx problems to upstream over and over and over again21:42
rickspencer3kenvandine, File->Open->21:42
rickspencer3ok21:42
kenvandineoh!21:42
brycehrickspencer3, there's little we can do except wait on them to actually fix it21:42
rickspencer3bryceh, would you like me to comment on bugs? I could say the stability over functionality thing there21:43
bryceh(aside from us hiring a driver developer to work on it ourselves)21:43
brycehrickspencer3, yes21:43
rickspencer3but would we work on those chips?21:43
brycehhttps://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/56327721:43
ubottuLaunchpad bug 563277 in linux "Please blacklist older 8xx cards from using KMS" [Critical,New]21:43
kenvandinerickspencer3, this is a beautiful thing21:43
brycehrickspencer3, right, I'd think if we did hire a driver developer we'd want them working on hardware more likely to gain us income ;-)21:44
rickspencer3kenvandine, there is a File->New as well21:44
brycehprobably would be cheaper to just buy new netbooks for anyone that reports a bug against 8xx ;-)21:44
rickspencer3bryceh, not "income" so much as "users"21:44
kenvandineyeah, i assumed they did nothing yet :)21:44
rickspencer3though the OEM team might hire your kind of dev ;)21:44
brycehrickspencer3, it would be interesting to contact a group like freegeek to see if they process many 8xx systems21:45
rickspencer3mmm21:45
rickspencer3of course, for that, probably an older version of Ubuntu would be better21:45
brycehrickspencer3, on a different note, I've spent more time on Windows this week than I've done in the last 5 years I think21:45
rickspencer3as we support new hardware, old hardware inevitably has to get less support21:45
brycehrickspencer3, true21:46
rickspencer3bryceh, ?21:46
rickspencer3windows, wtf?21:46
brycehrickspencer3, for the multitouch stuff21:46
brycehturns out the firmware updates from Dell can *only* be installed from Windows21:46
brycehthus all the grest in my week21:46
mvolucid works very well on my x30 with i830 chipset, its about as fast (or slow) as a netbook. the only issue is the KMS21:46
mvo(just my 0.02¢)21:46
brycehmvo, ah disabling KMS makes it work ?21:47
mvoyes, i915.modeset=0 and it boots/works fine21:47
brycehexcellent21:47
mvonomodeset used to work too, but stopped at some point21:47
brycehyeah that's not a valid option anymore21:48
jcastrobryceh: hey I found some i8xx people on the forums if you want to find more people21:48
mvobut X is doing fine, I was pleasantly supprised, I had given up to run anything more modern than hardy (the last release that worked with this intel chipset)21:48
mvobut now even videos work21:49
mvoagain :)21:49
brycehjcastro, the bug reports we need 8xx feedback on are lp #541511 #541492 #542208 #51100121:49
jcastrobryceh: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=145384721:49
ubottuLaunchpad bug 541511 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "MASTER: [i855] GPU lockup (apport-crash)" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/54151121:49
rickspencer3bryceh, how did the multi-touch seem?21:49
jcastrook, I can add a link to those in the thread21:49
NafaiI'm interested in the multi-touch stuff, especially when the Lenovo U1 hybrid netbook comes out :)21:50
brycehjcastro, 563277 is the kernel one where we blacklist everything21:50
brycehrickspencer3, on windows it's ok21:50
brycehrickspencer3, windows really sucks though, and I'm not just saying that out of bias21:50
jcastrobryceh: yeah, given the tone of the thread I wonder if sending people there will get you real help or people just complaining21:51
brycehit's *noticeably* slower and seems really cluttered and hard to find things21:51
brycehjcastro, ok well I don't want a larger peanut gallery21:51
jcastrook I won't link it then21:51
brycehjcastro, tomato throwers not welcomed ;-)21:51
rickspencer3bryceh, that's because they have like 2 buildings of teams who make features that have to be crammed in ;)21:51
Nafairickspencer3: and I bet none of them are half as productive as the guys on our team :)21:52
rickspencer3speaking of which ..21:53
* rickspencer3 whip cracking noises21:53
rickspencer3Nafai BT indicator?21:53
rickspencer3(I assume you knew I was going to ask ;) )21:53
NafaiI'm adding all of the current details that I have to the bug right now so I can speak with ted about it :)21:54
rickspencer3Nafai final freeze makes today pretty much the last day to get that puppy fixed21:54
Nafaiof course21:54
Nafaiok21:54
rickspencer3:)21:54
brycehrickspencer3, I've gotten spoiled I think with the boot speed and installation speed and graphics speed and... guess I'm a speed freak21:54
brycehotoh I suppose I can play games more21:54
brycehwell, if I had any freetime21:54
Nafaibryceh: You're not working hard enough if you have freetime :)21:55
rickspencer3bryce, will this bug:21:56
rickspencer3https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/56327721:56
ubottuLaunchpad bug 563277 in linux "Please blacklist older 8xx cards from using KMS" [Critical,New]21:56
rickspencer3also explain why 3d is turned off?21:56
Nafaisweet.  a friend just bought one of the new i7 17" Mac Book Pro's and he put Ubuntu on it.  The only thing not working out of the box on it so far is bluetooth21:59
brycehrickspencer3, no, it's just for KMS22:01
rickspencer3bryceh, perhaps I should similarly comment on the bugs where we will "fix" them but turning of 3d?22:01
brycehok22:02
brycehrickspencer3,  lp #541511 #541492 #542208 #51100122:02
ubottuLaunchpad bug 541511 in xserver-xorg-video-intel "MASTER: [i855] GPU lockup (apport-crash)" [Unknown,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/54151122:02
brycehrickspencer3, you know one thing I've been noticing a lot22:07
brycehyou know how I've gone on about defect report vs. tech support request22:07
rickspencer3yes22:08
brycehI am noticing more and more that many of the X bug reports are really primarily support requests22:08
rickspencer3hmmm22:08
rickspencer3turn them into questions?22:08
rickspencer3and move on22:08
brycehlike, they'd be happy to see a defect get fixed, but what they're really looking for is handholding to get their system operational22:08
brycehrickspencer3, unfortunately launchpad just gave me error messages when I tried that22:09
seb128bryceh, we will turn of the "report a bug" lpi item in lucid but I guess it doesn't make a different in your count since none of those point to xorg sources22:09
rickspencer3maybe we should close them as "invalid" and point them to the wiki?22:09
brycehrickspencer3, yeah that's what I've been doing22:09
brycehthey get *quite* testy at that though, so not sure it's the best solution22:09
seb128bryceh, it's interesting to see that those users are technical enough to file a bug on xorg but not enough to see it's not a bug report22:09
brycehI also updated http://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Reporting to make it even clearer22:10
brycehseb128, well to them they think it is a bug report22:10
brycehas in, they think it's not because they've done something wrong22:10
bryceher I should say22:10
seb128it's a bit tricky22:11
brycehthey know Ubuntu should "just work" and it doesn't, so they feel it's a bug in Ubuntu22:11
seb128I'm wondering if we should just flag all those as question in the support tracker22:11
seb128I've been doing that for quite some bugs when I was still trying to triage everything22:12
seb128which I gave up on doing since22:12
* didrocks waves goodnight22:12
brycehseb128, yeah it's a tough problem.  I'm thinking a lot about it22:12
seb128as I said for a while I want a "I don't care" or "not useful in the current status" button22:13
brycehmaybe it's just that we need another person doing triage of X bugs22:13
seb128which would take the bug out of the bug list22:13
zygaseb128, bryceh: what about asking users to move that stuff into a forum?22:13
bryceh"not useful in the current status" would be awesome22:13
seb128until somebody helps the submitter to be in a state where is can be bounced back22:13
zygaso that bugs != support requests22:13
brycehzyga, maybe22:13
brycehone point I've found useful to mention is this...22:14
seb128zyga, well, often they are really issue where they need somebody to help them to get in useful state22:14
seb128like get a stacktrace for a crash22:14
seb128or get debug logs22:14
zygabryceh: I used redmine for a while and it has definable trackers with definable workflows, one of the good stuff it is that you can have a "support request" tracker22:14
zygaand move "bugs" that are not bugs there easily22:14
seb128launchpad has an answer tracker22:14
zygaand have separate people deal with that22:14
seb128and you can change bugs to questions in 2 clicks22:15
=== dpm-afk is now known as dpm
bryceh"Ubuntu does have both paid and volunteer staff who do technical support, however they have their own tools for tracking support requests, and do not frequent the bug tracker.  The bug tracker is really just for tracking defects in the Ubuntu product under development."22:15
zygabryceh: where did you get that quote from?22:15
brycehzyga, I made it up myself22:15
zygabryceh: maybe it should <blink><marque> before submitting a bug for first-time users22:15
brycehI think people have gotten too accustomed to going to the bug tracker whenever they have a technical problem22:16
rickspencer3bryceh, how does this look?22:16
rickspencer3http://paste.ubuntu.com/414542/22:16
zygabryceh: how about "I'm a developer" button in launchpad that *triggers* bug reporting on22:16
zygabryceh: and for other users only the forum and questions would be available?22:16
seb128I'm not sure the issue will be solved at submit time22:17
brycehand unfortunately they don't take the time to write a good defect report, it's more of a "Ubuntu doesn't work, I don't know why" level of description22:17
seb128we need a way to flag a bug with one click as "not useful in the current state"22:17
seb128and have those out of the maintainers lists22:17
rickspencer3*cough* bughugger plugin *cough*22:17
brycehrickspencer3, looks good22:18
brycehrickspencer3, might want to say "regressons" rather than "regression" since it feels like there may be multiple issues22:18
seb128rickspencer3, bughugger doesn't really help there, it needs to be flagged on the server side so other team members don't see it either22:18
rickspencer3ok22:18
brycehalso, have to admit that even with karmic life with 8xx was not perfect either22:18
rickspencer3bryceh, mmm22:18
brycehbut the way you've written it is good22:18
rickspencer3I'll such catch the regressions change and move on22:19
rickspencer3I think it's good to be transparent here22:19
brycehzyga, that'd be nice.  Sort of like a "Your karma must be *this high* to report a bug in Ubuntu" ;-)22:19
zygabryceh: karma is not a good idea, a declarative statement would be better22:19
rickspencer3bryceh, but you could have your own "your karma must be this high for me to care" filter22:19
brycehrickspencer3, in fact I already do22:20
brycehrickspencer3, unfortunately adding lookups to filter by karma makes scripts take a Lonnnggg time to run22:20
zygabryceh: I think it's kind of like having a first-wave filtering from "whatever user typed" into a internal bug tracker for developers22:20
rickspencer3seb128, would you button not set the bugs as incomplete and add a tag?22:20
rickspencer3bryceh, yes22:20
rickspencer3I am finding that server side performance of certain operations severely hampers my bug triaging strategies22:21
rickspencer3:/22:21
seb128rickspencer3, incomplete no, there is some understanding that when saying the bug incomplete you should also give details on what you need22:21
brycehrickspencer3, I've got a launchpad-gm-script stock reply that says, "Not enough information has been provided to troubleshoot.  See http://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Reporting for instructions on reporting X issues." and closes the bug as invalid22:21
* kenvandine heads out, bbl22:21
seb128rickspencer3, and I don't want to spend 5 minutes explaining how to get debug logs or stacktrace on every bug, I just want to get those out of my way22:21
brycehand another that says, "I'm not sure I totally understand your description of the problem.  Could you please elaborate and clarify?  You may find it helpful to read "How to report bugs effectively" http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html or the Ubuntu-X bug reporting guidelines at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/X/Reporting ." that marks incomplete,22:21
brycehI use the former for where the bug reporter literally just said "something's broke, I dunno!"22:22
bryceh(we get bug reports like that surprisingly often)22:22
seb128brb22:22
brycehand I use the latter where the bug reporter tried to report a bug but just didn't describe the trouble they had22:22
brycehok back to work22:23
Nafaidoh22:39
Nafaibluetooth does work on my friend's i7 MBP.  He just didn't think it did because of the BT indicator being broken :/22:39
RAOFGood morning.23:32
rickspencer3hi RAOF23:33
RAOFFrustrating that disabling 3D isn't enough.23:33
rickspencer3it wasn't?23:33
rickspencer3RAOF, did it help at all?23:33
RAOFrickspencer3: That was the discussion above with bryceh, right?23:35
rickspencer3well ...23:35
rickspencer3I didn't quite follow23:35
rickspencer3I am not that smart23:35
rickspencer3but I guess, yeah23:36
brycehrickspencer3, yeah we were just talking about it a couple hours ago silly ;-)(23:36
rickspencer3well, I didn't know that you got feedback that the no-DRI patch was insufficient23:36
brycehRAOF, yeah several people report it didn't solve it23:36
rickspencer3that's f*cked up23:36
rickspencer3I hope no-KMS fixes it23:36
rickspencer3well, mitigates, anyway23:37
RAOFThere are reports on the bug that no-kms makes it worse :(23:37
rickspencer3oh fudge23:37
brycehRAOF, I didn't buy that guy's response23:37
rickspencer3well ... we have limited wiggle room here23:38
rickspencer3so turn off the features that we can, and get ready for an SRU I guess23:38
RAOFbryceh: Fair enough.23:38
RAOFPerhaps we should actually bump all the way down to vesa?23:39
brycehrickspencer3, fwiw I'm browsing through bug reports about this chipset against karmic, and see that the lockups also existed then23:39
brycehRAOF, that's what I'm wondering too23:39
rickspencer3hmm23:39
brycehRAOF, one reason that I +1'd doing the no-KMS was to give us that option23:40
rickspencer3bumping to vesa seems quite extreme23:40
brycehrickspencer3, agreed23:40
rickspencer3can we save that for the bitter end?23:40
brycehrickspencer3, yes23:40
rickspencer3and bryceh, are you suggesting that stability may not, in fact, be worse for Lucid?23:40
rickspencer3maybe just our telemetry is better?23:40
brycehrickspencer3, that's correct23:40
RAOFActually... couldn't we keep kms, and bump down to fbdev?23:40
rickspencer3but KMS is of limited value, really23:41
brycehRAOF, would that give much functional difference?23:41
RAOFbryceh: They'd get proper modesetting23:41
rickspencer3meh23:41
rickspencer3if you end up on a simple framebuffer, mode setting would be the least of your worries, right?23:41
RAOFI mean, they'd get the native res of whatever they're running on, whether or not it's a VESA mode.23:41
brycehRAOF, does it support HD resolutions? or is it also just the usual vesa resolutions?23:41
brycehRAOF, hmm23:42
RAOFbryceh: It'll use whatever intelfb set up.23:42
* rickspencer3 shudders23:42
brycehRAOF, well I feel somewhat safer with vesa just since it's been a known quantity23:42
rickspencer3yeah23:42
RAOFbryceh: Yeah.  That's true.23:42
rickspencer3if we are screwing the users functionality for stability purposes ...23:42
rickspencer3let's make sure we deliver something that is known stable23:42
RAOFIf this were earlier we could test fbdev.  We know vesa will work.23:43
brycehalso, with -vesa, we can make adjustments in userspace, whereas for fbdev changes need to be done through the kernel so there'd be some lag as to when we could roll out fixes23:43
rickspencer3urg23:43
rickspencer3nice that there is a back up plan23:43
rickspencer3if we fall back to vesa, what can we offer users who don't like that trade-off?23:43
rickspencer3some PPA or such to use other drivers?23:43
rickspencer3can they add on xorg.conf to load something different, etc...?23:44
RAOFRight.23:44
brycehwell, if we set vesa as the default, users can always turn intel back on just by adding a line to xorg.conf23:44
rickspencer3that seems easy to document23:44
RAOFYeah.  We'd fallback to vesa by removing intel from the default driver list in xserver, right bryceh?23:44
RAOF(For those chips)23:45
brycehfbdev it'd be similarly straightforward to go back via i915.modeset=1, just the opposite of what we're having them do now23:45
brycehRAOF, right23:45
rickspencer3or we can send them a link to newegg23:45
brycehhehe23:45
rickspencer3and they can buy a i9xx chip for like $3023:45
rickspencer3:/23:45
RAOFNo they can't.  Intel don't make pluggable hardware :)23:46
brycehwell, they'd need to buy a new laptop23:46
rickspencer3of course, that's only funny if you have $3023:46
brycehso $30023:46
rickspencer3stupid integrated chips23:46
rickspencer3:/23:46
brycehindeed23:46
rickspencer3anyway, it wasn't a funny joke to start23:46
rickspencer3:P23:46
brycehit's actually kind of ironic we have better support on older nvidia and ati cards23:46
brycehsince those are fairly trivial to replace23:46
rickspencer3some people use Ubuntu because they can't afford new hardware and certain "other" OSs don;'t care about them23:47
* bryceh mumbles something inappropriate about Intel23:47
RAOFSarvatt was saying that these 8xx chips don't get 3D under Vista or win 7, either.23:47
* rickspencer3 pretends not to hear23:47
rickspencer3oh?23:47
rickspencer3interesting23:47
* rickspencer3 needs a snack23:48
rickspencer3brb23:48
brycehme too23:48
* RAOF looks at the mournfully empty fridge and realises with terror that he ground the last of the coffee beans *yesterday*23:48
TheMusoGood morning.23:51
NafaiRAOF: heh, that's the problem with this job.  The break room here is woefully understocked compared to my last job :)23:51
RAOFAt least I'll soon have an actual room to work in.  Right now I'm wedged in a corner of the living room behind the washing!23:52
Nafaiyeah, that's no fun23:52
NafaiI finally got myself a proper office chair23:52
RAOFThat's well worth the investment.23:54
TheMusoNafai: Good idea. I got myself a good office chair before starting at Canonical, but I am glad I do have one.23:54
Nafaiit's not quite the $400 chair I had at my last job, but still much better than what I had23:55
brycehI need to get a new chair23:59

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