[00:00] <quidnunc> Compile fails for me on x86
[00:01] <cjwatson> yes, I think that build failures had something to do with it
[00:01] <cjwatson> we recently removed a bunch of stuff that didn't build
[00:01] <cjwatson> if somebody fixes the build failure, it can be put back
[00:01] <cjwatson> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2010-March/030509.html
[00:02] <bdrung> now i understand: evolution does not search in attached files. therefore i did not find this email
[00:03] <cjwatson> well, doesn't look like too difficult a failure, I'll have a poke
[00:03] <quidnunc> cjwatson: Thanks for the info
[00:05] <cjwatson> yes, transposed arguments to memset
[00:07] <cjwatson> couple more problems, I'll finish it tomorrow
[00:10] <quidnunc> Thanks cjwatson
[00:15] <slangasek> mathiaz: FFe done
[00:23] <bdrung> slangasek: bug #493805
[00:25] <svu> Keybuk: should the bug status be changed from Incomplete to something different?
[00:25] <Keybuk> svu: unknown
[00:25] <svu> perhaps
[00:26] <svu> "Incomplete" means I have to provide something - but I answered all questions for a moment
[00:31] <Keybuk> well, I'd disagree there ;-)
[00:31] <Keybuk> "Incomplete" to me always means that the bug lacks sufficient information to diagnose it
[00:31] <Keybuk> but then others would argue that "Confirmed" means that
[00:31] <Keybuk> etc.
[00:35] <svu> I see your point
[00:35] <svu> there are different substates
[00:35] <svu> "need info" = "I asked you, waiting for info"
[00:35] <svu> and "need info" = "we do not have enough info and we do not know what info we need" ;)
[00:36] <slangasek> bdrung: why does that need an FFe to fix?
[00:38] <bdrung> slangasek: asak thinks that this is a huge (in terms of regression potential) change and that the bug is fix is a "new feature"
[00:39] <slangasek> bdrung: ok; will look at the bug in a bit
[00:40] <bdrung> thanks
[00:40] <bdrung> slangasek: FYI i will meet my bed soon.
[00:40] <_silentAssassin> allchan say goodnight
[00:41] <slangasek> bdrung: doubtful that I'll get it before you go to bed then, sorry
[00:41] <slangasek> maybe another release teamer is free
[00:41] <bdrung> i will respond tomorrow, if there are questions
[00:42] <slangasek> ok
[01:23] <slangasek> bryceh: why does xserver-xorg-video-displaylink have Breaks: xf86-video-displaylink ?
[01:23] <slangasek> (lintian flags a warning for this)
[01:26] <bryceh> slangasek, to get it to not install alongside that package but to replace it
[01:28] <slangasek> bryceh: if you want to force the removal of the other package, that should be Conflicts:
[01:28] <slangasek> Breaks: only forces deconfiguring, I'm not sure it's defined to remove the package
[01:29] <RAOF> So, last time I tried this, lifeless came in and said that Breaks in the One True Way and pointed at policy.
[01:29] <bryceh> slangasek, in my original packaging I had Conflicts and no Breaks
[01:30] <robertzaccour> RAOF, hey man
[01:30] <robertzaccour> RAOF, bug free system from what i can tell now :)
[01:30] <slangasek> RAOF: I'm pretty sure policy doesn't say anything about using Breaks: to force packages off the system
[01:31] <bryceh> slangasek, so I think the Breaks may be something Persia added
[01:31] <slangasek> hmm
[01:31] <slangasek> persia: ^^ huh? :)
[01:32] <RAOF> That's what I thought, too, and my reading of policy didn't make it clear either.  My hope was that lifeless would pop up, carry on a detailed discussion with you, and I'd become wiser by osmosis :)
[01:32] <robertzaccour> RAOF, i see the duplicate bug noticication. is it the same graphics card as the leveno?
[01:32] <robertzaccour> hopefully the fix is included in the updates so the others can get it gone as well :)
[01:33] <slangasek> RAOF: in fact, reading policy pretty much confirms what I'm saying.  If you want to declare that a package should be removed, use Conflicts.  If you want to enforce upgrade order, use (versioned) Breaks.
[01:33] <robertzaccour> i want pidgin to be default over empathy :)
[01:33] <robertzaccour> maybe that will happen, this late doubt it though
[01:34] <slangasek> it certainly won't
[01:34] <robertzaccour> so whats the reason for empathy? just curious. it doesn't have all the features pidgin does
[01:34] <RAOF> And similarly, pidgeon doesn't have all the features empathy does.
[01:35] <robertzaccour> but one does have more than the other
[01:35] <ion> [citation needed]
[01:36] <robertzaccour> huh?
[01:36] <robertzaccour> i think skype would be a good default also
[01:37] <ion> Yeah, someone really should release a free implementation.
[01:37] <RAOF> You mean, like Empathy? :)
[01:38] <robertzaccour> so why is empathy the default?
[01:38] <directhex> pidgin's crap for a/v. empathy does webcam chats
[01:38] <robertzaccour> directhex, for yahoo?
[01:38] <jdong> and it also has outstanding open denial-of-service attacks over MSN!
[01:39] <jdong> *cough*
[01:39] <jdong> oh yeah a couple poor souls are try: except: pass'ing the entire codebase :)
[01:39] <directhex> robertzaccour, no. "Voice and video call using SIP, XMPP, Google Talk and MSN."
[01:40] <robertzaccour> is yahoo in the works?
[01:40] <RAOF> Doesn't yahoo use XMPP now?
[01:40] <micahg> directhex: pidgin's web support seems decent now for xmpp
[01:40] <robertzaccour> i dunno, don't think so
[01:40] <micahg> *webcam
[01:40] <directhex> micahg, can't say i've tried recently
[01:40] <RAOF> How easy is it to share your desktop with pidgin?
[01:40] <directhex> micahg, i think i prefer pidgin by and large, but not enough to change to it
[01:41] <RAOF> (Also, how easy is it to share your Banshee library with pidgin? :))
[01:41] <micahg> RAOF: I didn't know that's possible with any client?
[01:41] <micahg> directhex: I never switched away from it :)
[01:41] <directhex> micahg, the banshee bit definitely works... i think it was last year's gsoc?
[01:41] <RAOF> micahg: I'd suggest firing up empathy and hitting the “share my desktop with this contact” button, then :)
[01:41] <robertzaccour> i don't share my desktop with anyone
[01:42] <robertzaccour> i can see that its useful for some though
[01:42] <MattJ> "It's all MINE!"
[01:42] <micahg> RAOF: is it the whoole desktop or just parts?
[01:42] <ion> I shared my desktop with a contact and he totally my entire desktop.
[01:42] <MattJ> I think Pidgin is doing better nowadays in terms of maturity, but I think having Empathy as the new default will give it a chance to mature a bit too
[01:43] <directhex> i heard pidgin was having cathedral issues
[01:43] <robertzaccour> pidgin and empathy devs seem to not be very concerned about yahoo implementations
[01:43] <MattJ> I still find it awkward to use full-time (well, I find the same of Pidgin, so...)
[01:43] <robertzaccour> whats cathedral issues?
[01:43] <MattJ> robertzaccour: Good :)
[01:43] <robertzaccour> MattJ, good? how so?
[01:43] <RAOF> And the telepathy framework that Empathy's built on is just much more interesting - see “Stream my banshee library to contacts”, desktop sharing, gnome-games multiplayer, etc.
[01:43] <directhex> robertzaccour, read "the cathedral and the bazaar"
[01:43] <MattJ> robertzaccour: Never mind, OT for this channel I think :)
[01:44] <directhex> RAOF, gbrainy deathmatch!
[01:44] <RAOF> :)
[01:44] <RAOF> directhex: I challenge you to a Quadrapassel dual!
[01:44] <directhex> RAOF, did you see what i was working on today?
[01:45] <robertzaccour> so there's no plans for upgrading the yahoo protocol for video/voice chat?
[01:45] <RAOF> No.  I see, however, that miguel is getting psyched about mono 2.8, filled to the brim with DLR and awesome
[01:45] <directhex> RAOF, http://i.imgur.com/auhrX.png -> http://i.imgur.com/9j9ah.png
[01:45] <ajmitch> RAOF: so there'll be interesting mono crack in 10.10?
[01:45] <directhex> robertzaccour, i don't know how many developers care about yahoo support, to be frank
[01:46] <DnaX> Can be synced Postr 0.12.4 from Debian? Is only a bug fix release. There are LP: #531275.
[01:46] <robertzaccour> directhex, whats wrong with yahoo?
[01:46] <RAOF> ajmitch: Most assuredly!
[01:46] <directhex> robertzaccour, nobody uses it?
[01:46] <robertzaccour> directhex, its the most widely used messenger right?
[01:47] <ion> [citation needed]
[01:47] <robertzaccour> i use it, almost everyone i know uses it
[01:47] <directhex> robertzaccour, nowhere near
[01:47] <robertzaccour> well then maybe its a big tennessee, florida, wisconsin, california, and kentucky thing lol
[01:48] <directhex> less than half the user base of AIM
[01:48] <directhex> in 2006
[01:48] <directhex> and shrinking
[01:48] <robertzaccour> directhex, really?
[01:48] <ajmitch> DnaX: looks reasonable, but there look to be ubuntu changes that'll need to be integrated, so it won't be a straight sync
[01:49] <robertzaccour> i'm pretty sure yahoo is the most used
[01:49] <robertzaccour> brb
[01:49] <directhex> http://envolve.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/global_im_market_share_stats_july_08.pdf
[01:49] <directhex> i'm pretty sure you have no basis whatsoever for making that claim, other than immediate anecdotes
[01:50] <ion> Why are Jabber and Google Talk separate in that chart, i wonder?
[01:51] <DnaX> ajmitch: seems 2 simple patch
[01:51] <robertzaccour> empty link
[01:53] <directhex> moar raw stats on http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=p5D5M7Vy6XNdfLH8xX9lbHw&hl=en
[01:54] <MattJ> They also pre-date Facebook :)
[01:54] <directhex> getting figures is hard. there are reports available, for $1500
[01:55] <MattJ> For $1600 I'll give you some random figures
[01:55] <robertzaccour> directhex, oh ok thanks
[01:55] <robertzaccour> is that list current?
[01:56] <directhex> no.
[01:56] <directhex> current will cost you over a thousand dollars
[01:56] <robertzaccour> no way lol
[01:56] <ajmitch> these figures matter to advertisers & the like :)
[01:56] <directhex> precisely
[01:56] <robertzaccour> i know in America if yahoo isn't top its close to it
[01:57] <directhex> expensive "trade secrets"yahoo is second in the USA, slightly above third-place MSN. it's top in India, Indonesia, and Saudia Arabia
[01:57] <directhex> bah
[01:57] <directhex> yahoo is second in the USA, slightly above third-place MSN. it's top in India, Indonesia, and Saudia Arabia
[01:58] <robertzaccour> directhex, doesn't that mean importance for devs?
[01:58] <directhex> robertzaccour, to indonesian, indian, and saudi devs, yes
[01:59] <robertzaccour> most Ubuntu users are Americans, right?
[02:00] <directhex> not really.
[02:00] <robertzaccour> skype is my favorite overall, don't know a lot of peopole that use it though
[02:00] <directhex> skype is proprietary, and will never be included in an ubuntu install
[02:00] <MattJ> For my part as a developer I wouldn't contribute to Yahoo protocol support because I don't agree that we need to encourage the use of proprietary protocols in open-source
[02:01]  * RAOF was *sure* Yahoo was transitioning to XMPP
[02:01] <directhex> people work on protocol support for things to scratch their own itches. if i need to talk to someone using QQ< i work on QQ support - and because protocol distribution is highly regional, i'm probably in China whilst doing it.
[02:01] <robertzaccour> imo skype has the best quality audio and video and theme look, and its free in price, so its good to me
[02:02] <directhex> robertzaccour, you are free to use skype, but it conflicts with the ubuntu philosophy and isn't acceptable in the distro
[02:02] <MattJ> robertzaccour: Either way I'd rather work on helping get open software and protocols up to that level of quality :)
[02:03] <RAOF> robertzaccour: With the *tiny* problem that we can't legally include it in Ubuntu, and wouldn't include it by default because it's closed source (and not needed to make computers work).
[02:03] <MattJ> and am doing just that, in fact
[02:04] <robertzaccour> i use what works best for me whether it be the OS or the software thats installed. Open source is great, however usability for me ranks a little higher. having both would be great though
[02:04] <directhex> MattJ, it's not really a question of that though - the thing with IM protocols is you need to use what $FRIEND uses, or you can't talk to them. if you're chinese, you use QQ. if you're Turkish, you use MSN. if you're russian, you use ICQ. like identi.ca vs twitter, the value is in the network itself, not in what the network allows
[02:05] <robertzaccour> oh i think twitter is lame. thats just my opinion though
[02:05] <MattJ> directhex: As someone who dropped a contact list of ICQ contacts telling them that if they wanted to contact me they would find me on Jabber, I know that's not strictly always the case :)
[02:06] <directhex> how many of them followed?
[02:06] <MattJ> A handful out of a hundred, the rest didn't want to speak to me that desperately it turns out :)
[02:06] <MattJ> I just realised it was hypocritical to promote free software while using proprietary networks and protocols
[02:07] <MattJ> Where "using" is as good as "supporting"
[02:07] <MattJ> Because while people use them, the less likely other people are to switch
[02:07] <MattJ> So I like to think I've done my part :)
[02:08] <robertzaccour> MattJ, i'm not against open source, quite the contrary actually. its just that usability for me is priority, thats why i use skype
[02:09] <slangasek> well, as that's not the order of priorities for Ubuntu, I think this conversation is quite off-topic
[02:09] <robertzaccour> its a good thing we're not restricted on what we can install thats for sure
[02:10] <robertzaccour> i think skype is the only application i use thats not open source
[02:10] <robertzaccour> oh and my wireless driver
[02:22] <DnaX> ajmitch: so, about postr?
[02:24] <ajmitch> DnaX: someone needs to spend time to merge the changes & get it uploaded
[02:25] <DnaX> if I do this task, you are MOTU to upload?
[02:25] <ajmitch> yes, or you can subscribe ~ubuntu-sponsors
[02:26] <DnaX> ajmitch: the problem is the final freeze!
[02:26] <ajmitch> yep :)
[02:58] <DnaX> ajmitch: can I send you the updated debian dir for Postr?
[03:09] <lifeless> james_w: around ?
[03:11] <lifeless> jono: or you ?
[04:03] <FeasibilityStudy> I keep getting kernel errors on Lucid, but I can't diagnose them because apport keeps saying permission denied.
[04:04] <robertzaccour> FeasibilityStudy, did you type sudo first?
[04:04] <FeasibilityStudy> It doesn't allow you to type sudo..I just pops up a dialog box saying kernel error..  When i click details, it wont finish
[04:05] <FeasibilityStudy> I get something like IO13error or some such error
[04:05] <robertzaccour> FeasibilityStudy, oh that sucks, i don't know what thats about
[04:05] <FeasibilityStudy> have you heard of this problem?
[04:05] <robertzaccour> FeasibilityStudy, no i haven't
[04:06] <FeasibilityStudy> nothing shows up in my logs either, so I have no way of finding out what the error even is
[04:06] <robertzaccour> with the help of others in the community I did help fix a bug that i had
[04:51] <micahg> directhex: GRE patch is needed
[05:03] <persia> slangasek: seems I've misinterpeted policy 7.3 and 7.4.  I'll fix that.
[05:04] <slangasek> persia: ok :)
[05:57] <pitti> Good morning
[06:43] <ajmitch> a belated good morning to you pitti :)
[06:43] <pitti> hey ajmitch, how are you?
[06:45] <micahg> pitti: good morning, I get this when I upgrade my langpacks, should I file a bug: http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/413328/
[06:45] <pitti> micahg: seems rather harmless, but it's an easy fix
[06:45] <pitti> (we don't need to reload gdm any more)
[06:46] <pitti> micahg: so please go ahead
[06:46] <ajmitch> pitti: good thanks
[06:46] <micahg> pitti: where should it go?
[06:46] <pitti> micahg: langpack-locales
[06:46] <micahg> pitti: thanks
[06:47] <micahg> pitti: is that a project?
[06:47] <pitti> micahg: please assign to me
[06:47] <pitti> micahg: no, it's an ubuntu package
[06:47] <pitti> micahg: it's a bug in /usr/share/locales/install-language-pack
[06:47] <micahg> pitti: ubuntu-bug wouldn't let me report on it...I'll file in LP interface
[06:47] <pitti> micahg: oh, ubuntu-bug locales
[06:48] <pitti> but yes, LP interface is fine
[06:48] <pitti> micahg: langpack-locales is the source for the locales package
[06:48] <micahg> pitti: ah, right, and it was decided not to overload for source package :)
[06:49] <micahg> pitti: target for lucid release?
[06:49] <pitti> micahg: not necessary I think; it's just cosmetical
[06:49] <pitti> (I'll get to it, though)
[06:50] <micahg> pitti: k, done bug 562795
[06:50] <pitti> micahg: thanks
[06:50] <micahg> pitti: np, now I think I have to go to sleep :)
[07:06] <micahg> pitti: that's real service 11 minutes from filing to archive :)
[07:06] <pitti> micahg: :)
[07:23] <dholbach> good morning
[07:25] <hyperair> YokoZar: what do you think about the winepulse patches?
[07:26] <YokoZar> hyperair: I've tested them and still see the same audio issues
[07:26] <hyperair> YokoZar: ah i see. what issues are they?
[07:26] <slangasek> I need a volunteer who can reproduce bug #554737 reliably, any takers?
[07:27] <YokoZar> hyperair: constant pulseaudio popping, like the soundserver is restarting over and over
[07:27] <hyperair> YokoZar: that sucks. did you notice similar issues with the alsa-pulseaudio plugin?
[07:28] <YokoZar> hyperair: yes, that's the default and it's why Wine developers have believed pulse to be broken for years
[07:28] <YokoZar> although to be fair it wasn't until karmic that it would constantly pop as before it would just not go at all
[07:28] <YokoZar> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wine1.2/+bug/502375  is still live too
[07:28] <hyperair> hmm weird.
[07:29] <hyperair> i'm on karmic, buti  don't get those pops
[07:29] <hyperair> just that certain apps stutter like hell.  i seem to have gotten around that by switching to esound though
[07:30] <pitti> urgh, esound!?
[07:30] <hyperair> pitti: the esound backend.
[07:30] <hyperair> pitti: pulseaudio has esound compat, remember?
[07:30] <pitti> ah, *phew* :)
[07:31] <hyperair> did you *really* think anyone would switch from pulseaudio to esound?  =p
[07:31] <ion> The author of esound perhaps
[07:31] <pitti> hyperair: I seriously hoped that I just misunderstood it :)
[07:31] <hyperair> heheh
[07:31] <hyperair> ion: is esound still maintained?
[07:32] <Tm_T> hey, some people still misses arts too (and that was bad)
[07:33] <hyperair> my, my
[07:35] <crimsun> hyperair: YokoZar: pitti: err, that's usually an indication that your *sound driver* is utterly broken
[07:36] <crimsun> in every case so far, David H and I have fixed both the pulse alsa-plugin and the pulse bits
[07:36] <hyperair> crimsun: nah, i get stuttering sound when piping sound from certain wine apps to pulseaudio. i'm thinking wine's directsound->pulseaudio implementation is screwed.
[07:36] <hyperair> i mean directsound->alsa->alsaplugin->pulseaudio pathway
[07:36] <hyperair> unless i close everything and restart pulseaudio
[07:37] <crimsun> hyperair: I'd try to reproduce that using linux-alsa-driver-modules-$(uname -r) from ppa:ubuntu-audio-dev
[07:37] <YokoZar> Yeah since Karmic I regularly have to close everything AND THEN killall -9 pulseaudio to get Wine to start working again
[07:37] <hyperair> crimsun: i don't use a stock kernel. those modules won't work for me.
[07:37] <hyperair> crimsun: where do they come from? perhaps i could compile them during my kernel-compilation rounds
[07:38] <crimsun> control.d/flavour-control.stub: snapshots from http://kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/people/tiwai/snapshot/alsa-driver-snapshot.tar.bz2
[07:38] <hyperair> crimsun: or better yet, is there a set of modules packaged with dkms support for this?
[07:38] <hyperair> crimsun: tiwai? i remember seeing a git tree like that.. if i merge from that would it give me that?
[07:38] <crimsun> dkms is slated for sid -> 10.10
[07:39] <hyperair> crimsun: what do you mean?
[07:39] <crimsun> hyperair: roughly, yes, building from master HEAD of sound-2.6 should get you the same
[07:39] <hyperair> crimsun: ah okay.
[07:39] <hyperair> crimsun: i'll just merge that in thhen.
[07:39] <hyperair> crimsun: but the last time i did that, i got some pretty serious skipping issues.
[07:39] <crimsun> hyperair: I mean that there is not DKMS-ized source yet; Elimar and I are working on that for Sid.
[07:40] <slangasek> pitti: morning - were you among those able to reproduce bug #554737?
[07:41] <crimsun> hyperair: I can't speak for WINE itself, but without using the newest bits, it's more difficult to eliminate the driver as a pitfall.
[07:41] <slangasek> I'm missing something, because I've been trying all evening to reproduce it and haven't been able to so far
[07:41] <slangasek> which makes it hard to validate my proposed fix :P
[07:41] <pitti> slangasek: hm, first time I see this
[07:41] <slangasek> pitti: ok, no worries
[07:41] <pitti> slangasek: I did have several fscks in the last weeks, since I reboot often, but they all worked well
[07:41] <hyperair> crimsun: what about mainline 2.6.34-rc4
[07:41] <crimsun> hyperair: not new enough
[07:42] <pitti> slangasek: I have a relatively simple setup, though, just / and /home, and no LVM etc.
[07:42] <Keybuk> slangasek: banging away at the keyboard while deactivate is called in the background?
[07:42] <slangasek> well, LVM shouldn't matter, it's all a race condition->deadlock between plymouth and mountall
[07:42] <baptistemm> good morning
[07:42] <baptistemm> StevenK, around?
[07:42] <slangasek> Keybuk: how do I know when deactivate is called?
[07:43] <Keybuk> sleep 5; plymouth deactivate
[07:43] <Keybuk> Alt+F7
[07:43] <Keybuk> type lots ;)
[07:43] <pitti> hey Keybuk, how are you? early for you..
[07:43] <hyperair> crimsun: heh okay. what's the git clone url? i can't seem to find it.
[07:43] <Keybuk> early?  it's not even midnight <g>
[07:44] <slangasek> Keybuk: that doesn't really model the mountall deadlock, does it?
[07:44] <hyperair> crimsun: no wait, i think i found it
[07:44] <hyperair> http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/tiwai/sound-2.6.git;a=summary
[07:44] <pitti> Keybuk: oh, so unless they towed the British islands somewhere else I figure you are at the LF summit?
[07:44] <Keybuk> slangasek: oh, sorry, different bug
[07:44] <Keybuk> lol
[07:44] <slangasek> ok :)
[07:44] <Keybuk> that's how to replicate the SEGV one
[07:44] <slangasek> gotcha
[07:44] <Keybuk> pitti: indeed
[07:44] <pitti> Keybuk: enjoy!
[07:45] <Keybuk> slangasek: no idea how to replicate the stuck-in-flush one
[07:45] <Keybuk> that seems kinda kooky
[07:45] <Keybuk> if the write() is blocking, the pipe must be very full
[07:46] <pitti> could it be that fsck -C is writing out something unexpected which can't be parsed?
[07:46] <slangasek> not unless you know of a way that would cause mountall to talk to plymouth :)
[07:46] <slangasek> the deadlock is between mountall and plymouth both trying to write and nobody reading
[07:47] <slangasek> I understand what the bug *is*, and I think I have a fix, but I don't understand how to *trigger* the bug so I can't validate the fix
[07:50] <Optimus55> hey can anyone here point me in the right direction? I want to write together a hack/patch that outputs a small sound notification on volume change
[07:51] <Optimus55> any documentation or resources i could start with would be really helpful
[07:56] <RAOF> Optimus55: You should probably start by looking into gnome-settings-daemon; that's where the volume-change gets handled.  It's off-topic for this channel, though; #ubuntu-app-devel is probably where you want to go.
[07:58] <hyperair> YokoZar: have you seen this before? fixme:d3d_caps:wined3d_guess_card No card selector available for GL vendor 3 and card vendor 8086.
[07:58] <YokoZar> hyperair: no
[07:58] <hyperair> hmm =\
[07:58] <hyperair> it only appeared in newer versions of wine.
[07:59] <hyperair> along with my halved frame rates
[07:59] <RAOF> Isn't card vendor 8086 going to be intel?
[07:59] <hyperair> RAOF: yes iti s.
[08:02] <Optimus55> RAOF: thanks very much
[08:11] <hyperair> YokoZar: http://archives.free.net.ph/message/20100301.182932.80602d9a.en.html <-- this says that wine is treating my intel card as a nvidia card after tossing that message out.
[08:11] <YokoZar> hyperair: seems like a simple upstream bug then
[08:12] <hyperair> YokoZar: indeed.
[08:48] <svu_> seb128, hi. i found the solution. for some reason vg gets disabled on every boot. has to enable it manually every time
[08:48] <seb128> hey svu_, oh, nice that you managed to find the issue
[08:50] <svu_> thanks for the help and hints yesterday! hopefully my info will help to fix the bug (already updated). perhaps mountall needs tweaking after all
[08:52] <seb128> you're welcome, right, let's see
[08:55]  * hyperair finds it mildly annoying that every time he digs out wine for a short game, there are performance regressions so bad that i end up grabbing wine's source and hacking through it to look for what's gone wrong (again).
[08:56] <james_w> lifeless: am now
[08:57] <lifeless> nvm, dholbach showed up first ;P
[08:57] <lifeless> but thanks
[08:57] <lifeless> hyperair: you are playing the 'wining game'
[08:57] <hyperair> lifeless: lolwut?
[08:57] <lifeless> terrible joke :)
[08:57] <hyperair> ..i guess.
[08:58] <hyperair> the last time i had wine issues, it was crashing because it was looking for i915_dri.so in the wrong place, then using swrast or something and segfaulting.
[08:58] <hyperair> the bug is *almost* fixed.
[08:59] <hyperair> and then this time i have stupid performance regressions due to somebody trampling all over intel support to refactor ati support.
[08:59] <hyperair> best part is it's *always* wined3d.
[09:20]  * hyperair adds writing a cowbuilder that can have multiple backends to todo list.
[09:21] <StevenK> baptistemm: I am now
[09:21] <baptistemm> hi StevenK
[09:23] <StevenK> baptistemm: What's up?
[09:23] <baptistemm> StevenK, I saw you manager Bluetooth group in lp
[09:24] <baptistemm> -e
[09:24] <baptistemm> -r grr
[09:24] <StevenK> baptistemm: If you've requested to join the team, tell me your Launchpad ID and I'll add you
[09:24] <baptistemm> I'm in the pending approval
[09:24] <baptistemm> My id is bmillemathias
[09:25] <baptistemm> there is are some interesting people in the approval queue like Vudentz which is a core dev of bluez
[09:26] <baptistemm> actually I'm triaging a lot of bug related to bluetooth bluez, gnome-blueooth, obex*)
[09:27] <baptistemm_> sorry
[09:27] <StevenK> baptistemm_: I've approved you
[09:27] <baptistemm_> thanks StevenK
[09:28] <baptistemm_> I need to go for a meeting but I'll be back to ask you some question.
[09:28] <baptistemm_> see you
[10:24] <cjwatson> apw: could you install dpkg 1.15.5.6ubuntu4~ppa1 from https://launchpad.net/~cjwatson/+archive/ppa and see if it can unpack a linux-headers-2.6.32-[0-9]+ package in vaguely reasonable time on ext4?
[10:25] <cjwatson> for comparison, that unpack on ext3 on my laptop takes about 20 seconds
[10:28] <apw> cjwatson, ack
[10:30] <ogra> is https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/lucid/initramfs-tools/lucid the current branch for the initramfs-tools package ?
[10:31] <cjwatson> ogra: yes
[10:32] <ogra> thanks
[10:32]  * ogra fixes mmc handling
[10:34] <cjwatson> apw: wah, hang on, that package is buggy
[10:35] <cjwatson> it's not renaming new files into place
[10:38] <apw> cjwatson, gah ... how badly broken are my machines?
[10:38] <baptistemm> StevenK: could you add  Vudentz to bluetooth team, he is a core dev of bluez
[10:38] <cjwatson> find / -name \*.dpkg-new
[10:39] <cjwatson> apw: (new dpkg will fix it up though, once I find the bug ...)
[10:39] <cjwatson> it gets overwrite of existing files right, it's only newly-introduced files
[10:40] <StevenK> baptistemm: Done.
[10:41] <baptistemm> StevenK, thanks :)
[10:42] <apw> cjwatson, ahh i was reinstalling a package so i have none
[10:45] <cjwatson> apw: yeah, I'd downgrade dpkg to the lucid version for the time being anyway - discussing it on #debian-dpkg now
[10:45] <cjwatson> apw: ok, in that case did you get timing data?
[10:45] <cjwatson> it might still be useful
[10:47] <apw> i ran before the update a few times and a few after .... on a fast(er) amd64 it looks to be about 'cold cache' speed ... before was like 6,3,2,2,2 (s) and after it was 6,5,6,5,6,6
[10:48] <apw> on an atom netbook is still running
[10:48] <mvo> ogra: speaking of which, do you have a opinion on bug #562231 - it mentions compcache issues
[10:49] <directhex> sigh, pitti's sync script never seems to work for me :(
[10:50] <pitti> directhex: how does it fail?
[10:50] <ogra> mvo, i thought we excluded ramzswap everywhere, if it causes suspend/resume issues that has to be taken care of (by pm-utils i guess) i dont think we want to delete initramfs.conf
[10:50] <directhex> pitti, well, it seems to work fine, then when i dput the result... nothing. no acknowledgement or rejection email, just nothing
[10:51] <apw> cjwatson, and on atom its 52, 21, 58 before and 1:14, 1:33, 0:47, 1:46
[10:51] <apw> very variable on atom it seems
[10:51] <ogra> mvo, you might have installed to a low ram system and need ramzswap (actually i think cjwatson once added code that we can make sure its still there on systems with less than 512M post install)
[10:52] <cjwatson> apw: so slower, but not hopelessly dreadful?
[10:52] <cjwatson> yeah, there's a fair amount of variability for me too
[10:52] <mvo> ogra: ok, it sounded very wrong to me as well
[10:52] <apw> yeah i'd say its cold cache speed rather than getting faster in later iterations, which matters not as you don't install more than once
[10:53] <apw> its perhaps 20-30% slower on my braindead atom, cirtainly not 1 hour to install levels
[10:53] <apw> cjwatson, not hoplessly dreadful ... indeed
[11:12] <MacSlow> seb128, LP: #559109 is fixed. I've a branch up for review (will ask bratsche to do it). Would you take that rather as a distro-patch or a new tarball-release?
[11:12] <seb128> MacSlow, distro change is fine, thanks for working on it!
[11:12] <seb128> MacSlow, do you want me to backport it now or do you prefer to have brastche to double check it first?
[11:14] <MacSlow> seb128, well I've tested it with all the cases people described in the bug-report (using metacity without compositing) and it works. I'm feeling confident to suggest you just take it as-is
[11:14] <seb128> MacSlow, ok, will do thanks, we can still do another upload if required ;-)
[11:14] <MacSlow> seb128, still for moving it into notify-osd trunk I'll stick to our usual process... so waiting on bratsche to review and approve it
[11:14]  * seb128 hugs MacSlow, good work!
[11:15] <seb128> MacSlow, right, makes sense
[11:15] <MacSlow> seb128, you're welcome!
[11:25] <joaopinto> was there any recent change to cups-pdf ?
[11:26] <joaopinto> I am sure it was working fine a few days ago, today the pdfs are not generated and I don't get any error
[11:26] <joaopinto> any tip on how to debug it ?
[11:28] <joaopinto> hum, there is a warning on the printers list
[11:28] <joaopinto> backend cups-pdf does not exist
[11:29] <joaopinto> the package was removed somehow
[11:29] <joaopinto> fixed :P
[11:40] <jibel_> ArneGoetje, hi, about bug 396414 and check-language-support
[11:41] <jibel_> ArneGoetje, check-language-support doesn't check the required language pack for the dependencies ?
[11:41] <jibel_> ArneGoetje, for example, if I've no kde package installed at all,
[11:42] <jibel_> ArneGoetje,  "check-language-support -p kturtle" returns nothing because the package that requires a lang pack is kdelibs5-data
[11:47] <seb128> bdrung, hey, you have main upload rights?
[11:48] <seb128> bdrung, thanks for doing some sponsoring but when you upload desktop packages would you check with #ubuntu-desktop before?
[11:52] <hyperair> crimsun: the said stutters with wine and alsa-pulseaudio plugin still occur with the new sound things
[11:55] <pitti> seb128: I'm just looking at the missing evolution bzr commit; I suppose you mean that?
[11:56] <seb128> pitti, yes
[11:56] <seb128> pitti, that + I wanted to review changes to add rather than doing an evo build for an useless build-depends change
[11:56] <seb128> the upload is just wasting bandwith and buildd
[11:57] <pitti> bdrung: can you please commit it to lp:~ubuntu-desktop/evolution/ubuntu ?
[11:57] <pitti> seb128: yes, committing to the branch would have been enough
[12:04] <bdrung> seb128: yes
[12:04] <bdrung> seb128, pitti: ok
[12:05] <seb128> bdrung, thanks
[12:05] <foka> cjwatson, Hello!  Here?  Just wondering about grub-common 1.98-1, /etc/grub.d/10_linux has "export TEXTDOMAINDIR=@LOCALEDIR@" left untranslated.  Is it a known problem?  Thanks!
[12:06] <cjwatson> interesting, didn't know about that
[12:06] <foka> cjwatson, a possible fix is to edit grub2-1.98/util/grub.d/10_linux.in and change @LOCALEDIR@ to @localedir@, and that seems to do the trick, with the result being  export TEXTDOMAINDIR=${prefix}/share/locale
[12:07] <cjwatson> that sounds plausible
[12:07] <cjwatson> I'll get that changed upstream and backport to Debian and Ubuntu
[12:07] <cjwatson> thanks!
[12:07] <foka> cjwatson, Cool!  Thank you so much Colin!  :-)
[12:07] <cjwatson> is there a bug open?  (no need to file one if there isn't)
[12:07] <foka> cjwatson, (as you can see, I have been too lazy to file a bug report)
[12:08] <foka> cjwatson, thought it would be much easier if we could discuss it on IRC like what we just did.  ;-)
[12:08] <foka> cjwatson, No bug report open AFAIK.
[12:08] <cjwatson> odd, this WAS fixed
[12:08] <cjwatson> r1889
[12:08] <foka> cjwatson, Cool!  Most likely the fix came after the 1.98 release.
[12:09] <cjwatson> no
[12:09] <cjwatson> it's an old change, reverted for some reason
[12:09] <cjwatson> I'm looking through the history to see whether it was a mistake or deliberate for some reason
[12:10] <cjwatson> it looks like a mismerge
[12:11] <cjwatson> yeah, another change merged in r2156 was very close by and it looks like the person doing the merge got the conflict resolution wrong
[12:11] <foka> cjwatson, Thank you so much for looking into it and discovering the root of the problem.  :-)
[12:13]  * ogra sighs about initramfs-tools-bin 
[12:13] <baptistemm> StevenK, would do agree to grant some power to the bluetooth group ?
[12:13] <ogra> why the heck do we need it ... makes my world so much slower
[12:13] <baptistemm> as I did manage the packages for a while
[12:13] <baptistemm> and the bug reports
[12:14] <persia> baptistemm: What sort of power did you envision?
[12:14] <baptistemm> just add related projets, look to review and members
[12:15] <persia> baptistemm: I may be mistaken, but I suspect that waiting at least a couple weeks after being confirmed as a member would make sense before asking for admin :)
[12:16] <persia> I suspect you'll end up with it, simply because I believe you to be the primary maintainer of the bluetooth stack in Ubuntu, but still it's good to go step-by-step :)
[12:16] <baptistemm> okay no problemo
[12:16] <baptistemm> I just wanted to give a hand to help
[12:17] <baptistemm> ah, and I wanted to update the bluetooth icon of the group to a nicer one :)
[12:18] <_silentAssassin> /me leaving
[12:53] <DnaX> ajmitch: ping
[12:55] <pecisk> ccheney: ping?
[13:05] <ajmitch> DnaX: yes?
[13:16] <DnaX> ajmitch: about postr package... I've made the updated package, please, can you check and upload if ok?
[13:21] <bdrung> What do do with Ubuntu hating upstream projects?
[13:22] <bdrung> one upstream dev want to see the package removed from ubuntu.
[13:23] <pecisk> bdrung: be more specific
[13:23] <persia> Play nicer with upstream.
[13:24] <bdrung> persia: i play nice with them. packaged the newest version. no extra patch applied (he rants that we patched the package to death).
[13:24] <persia> And we carry no patches?
[13:25] <bdrung> we carried 5 patches that are no longer required.
[13:25] <bdrung> i filed a bunch of upstream bugs to make packaging simpler (e.g. distclean was not clean enough)
[13:25] <DktrKranz> bdrung: I had a similar experience (http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel/2010/02/msg00714.html), and given that I don't want to waste time trying to make upstream work, I decided to remove it for good.
[13:27] <bdrung> DktrKranz: the package works. it just that one or more upstream devs hate ubuntu.
[13:28] <DktrKranz> cool
[13:28] <DktrKranz> does the whole stuff apply to Debian too?
[13:30] <josip> hello, I have just upgraded to lucid beta and there seem to be rpoblems with fglrx (can't get installed). Anyone familiar with this?
[13:30] <josip> it also broke apt-get, I will poste a paste shortly
[13:31] <joaopinto> hate is such a strong word, I don't see open source developers moving in such emotion
[13:32] <josip> http://pastebin.com/ePkeq1BE
[13:32] <josip> imagemagick as well
[13:32] <bdrung> hate was one of the more harmless words
[13:34] <DktrKranz> so, basically people don't want their own software to be easily installable by their own users, and don't want for-free advertisement. woohoo!
[13:35] <joaopinto> I did got one "Please do not distribute our software" mail once, for a GPL software
[13:35] <joaopinto> never got a reason so it was just ignored
[13:52] <josip> any workaround for https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/fglrx-installer/+bug/559587 ?
[14:07] <sabdfl> slangasek: quick ping re https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/update-manager/+bug/563015
[14:09] <mvo> sabdfl: sorry for that, I fix it right away
[14:12] <sabdfl> thanks mvo!
[14:12] <sabdfl> mpt: ^
[14:12] <sabdfl> thanks  mpt too
[14:25] <joaopinto> mvo, we are settle on the changelog location right ? I need to file a bug report on "aptitude changelog" to support it also
[14:32] <mvo> joaopinto: thanks, good point
[14:37] <zul> mvo: ping any update on #556343?
[14:40] <MattJ> Are there any docs on what the package urgency should be set to?
[14:41] <MattJ> I'm producing an update for a package in universe, for an upstream bugfix release
[14:41] <cjwatson> MattJ: policy manual s. 5.6.17
[14:41] <persia> MattJ: Set to "low" for any uploads to Ubuntu.  Setting to other values makes a difference, but only if you upload something within the same hour as several other things.
[14:41] <MattJ> Thanks
[14:41] <cjwatson> indeed, it makes very little actual difference
[14:41] <MattJ> Ok, I guess it's fine to leave then :)
[14:42] <cjwatson> the only other difference I know of that it makes is the ordering of output from apt-listchanges
[14:44] <tseliot> cjwatson: what key combination do we use to access the grub menu in Lucid? Shift?
[14:46] <arand> tseliot: lest shift, hold, yep
[14:46] <arand> s/lest/left/
[14:47] <tseliot> ok, it didn't seem to work for some reason. It does now. thanks
[14:50] <cjwatson> either shift actually
[14:59] <primes2h> tseliot: Thanks for plymouth patches.
[14:59] <tseliot> primes2h: np
[14:59] <ArneGoetje> jibel_: correct. Because kturtle depends on that library, it will pull the kde langpacks.
[15:00] <primes2h> tseliot: are they going to be included in bzr tree?
[15:00] <tseliot> primes2h: they have to be approved for inclusion first and this doesn't really depend on me
[15:01] <primes2h> tseliot: ok, thanks a lot. :-)
[15:02] <mvo> zul: not yet, sorry
[15:03] <psusi> if a bug is "fixed" by a hackish workaround rather than actually fixing the underlying bug, should the bug report NOT be marked as fix released?  you know, so that the real problem will eventually be found and fixed?
[15:03] <zul> mvo: ok, ttx is a bit antsy with it
[15:06] <mvo> zul: I run it now
[15:06] <zul> mvo: thanks
[15:10] <jibel_> ArneGoetje, let say I'm using LANG=fr_FR, I install kturtle with some package manager, no particular lang pack is pulled.
[15:10] <jibel_> ArneGoetje, check-langugage-selector is able to tell me that french lang pack is needed only once the package is installed
[15:10] <jibel_> ArneGoetje, From a "user friendliness" point of view it would be better to guess which lang pack are needed before proceeding with the installation.
[15:11] <jibel_> ArneGoetje, or am I missing something?
[15:12] <jibel_> ArneGoetje, it would be possible if c-l-s also checked the dependencies when called with -p
[15:14] <pgraner> sabdfl: ping
[15:14] <ArneGoetje> jibel_: the package manager should pull kdelibs5-data as a dependency. When it does that, it should submit the list of packages it is going to install (including the dependencies) to the function call.
[15:19] <jibel_> ArneGoetje, ok, that makes sense. mvo, are you ok to implement it that way ? ^^^
[15:19] <jibel_> mvo, reference is bug 396414
[15:21] <mvo> jibel_: well, doing it like this in apt is going to be a big slowdown, the idea is make it part of aptdaemon, but not apt-get itself.
[15:21] <mvo> jibel_: it feel like we need a plugin mechanism in apt for this or a different solution that is more elegant
[15:26] <Madkiss> good morning
[15:26] <primes2h> slangasek:  Hello, I saw you merged plymouth 0.8.2 in bzr yesterday evening. Is there any chance to patch it with this bug #553954? :-) It's quite an annoying bug because the string is very visible (and quite big)
[15:26] <Madkiss> Is Scott Kittermann online?
[15:27] <jibel_> mvo, I was rather thinking about doing this on the client side. but it duplicates the code in each client. :/ not the right solution.
[15:27] <RoAkSoAx> Madkiss, ScottK
[15:28] <primes2h> slangasek: tseliot has been working very hard to provide those patches in a short time.
[15:28] <mvo> jibel_: yeah, a plugin would be ideal plus fast code, or a re-thinking of the way we do the langpacks
[15:28] <Madkiss> ScottK?
[15:28] <mvo> jibel_: its tricky to get right without slowdown
[15:28] <yofel> pitti: hi, I have the fix for bug 562118 ready in the linked branch, do you want a debdiff, merge or can you just take the fixed script from the branch?
[15:29] <pitti> yofel: I can figure it out; if you branched against trunk, I'll just merge
[15:29] <pitti> thanks!
[15:29] <pitti> yofel: please assign the bug to me, so that it's on my work list
[15:29] <Riddell> Madkiss: he's away for the next few hours
[15:30] <yofel> pitti: will do
[15:31] <ccheney> pecisk: hello?
[15:31] <ArneGoetje> mvo: anything I would need to change on my side to make it possible?
[15:32] <Madkiss> RoAkSoAx: About the heartbeat discussion.
[15:32] <Madkiss> RoAkSoAx: I know some details about it as LINBIT is heartbeat upstream. The problem is not in Heartbeat, it's in glib.
[15:33] <Madkiss> RoAkSoAx: fixed in http://git.gnome.org/browse/glib/commit/?id=37dbc09080ac280ff7a552d03869c8afa745f15a and re-introduced in http://git.gnome.org/browse/glib/commit/?id=c8e37b63e74fafdc1f299ec139677ad0e37676c3 -- also see https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=457641
[15:34] <RoAkSoAx> Madkiss, i see then. so would you advise to drop --disable-fatal-warnings from debian/rules in heartbeat?
[15:35] <Madkiss> RoAkSoAx: it's not gonna build on numerous architectures then as long as glib is not fixed.
[15:35] <robert_ancell> hey, could someone sponsor bug 87312?
[15:35] <Madkiss> RoAkSoAx: you have the choice between aids and cancer.
[15:37] <RoAkSoAx> Madkiss, i'd rather keep the change then since I don't think that glib fix is going to hit ubuntu anytime soon :)
[15:38] <Madkiss> RoAkSoAx: so do I.
[15:38] <lamont> who knows partman-auto/expert_recipe debconf answers well enough to answer a stupid question?
[15:39] <mvo> ArneGoetje: no, providing the call via a python import is a good step to interface with it
[15:39] <ArneGoetje> mvo: good, thanks :)
[15:41] <robert_ancell> seb128, pitti: could you sponsor ^^
[15:41] <seb128> robert_ancell, ok
[15:42] <robert_ancell> seb128, I promise to get around to applying for main :)
[15:42] <seb128> robert_ancell, right, do that before next cycle if you can, so when you are back on distro you will be set ;-)
[15:43] <robert_ancell> The paperwork always makes me fall asleep... :)
[16:00] <jibel_> ArneGoetje, mvo,  thanks, report updated accordingly.
[16:19] <ttx> jjohansen: bug 542208 seems to be in the same alley as our bug 546743, fwiw
[16:20] <jjohansen> ttx: yep thanks, I'm poking
[16:24] <kklimonda> cjwatson: should I get some sort of mail after I got upload privileges? something like "hello, don't break things"? the only indication I could do an upload was the fact it wasn't rejected :)
[16:25] <cjwatson> the DMB chair-of-the-week should have sent something
[16:25] <persia> kklimonda: Sorry.  I failed this morning.  I'll do that now.
[16:33] <persia> Hrm.  I can't find any previous announcement for any per-package-uploader since the DMB took them over, except for in the meeting minutes.  Anyone have a pointer that says where I'm supposed to send those (aside from cc: devel-permissions)?
[16:38] <mgiammarco_> just a quick note: ubuntu pacemaker packages miss sbd start script
[16:39] <mgiammarco_> heartbeat maintainer has just made a patch for debian packages, but only for heartbeat. Corosync support should be added
[16:45] <cr3> should gnome-open behave the same with file:///.../file.xml and http://.../file.xml, and respect the value of /desktop/gnome/url-handlers/http/command in the gconf database?
[16:45] <sistpoty|work> mgiammarco_: can you add that info to bug #562712 and/or bug #562711 please? thanks!
[16:45] <mpt> mvo, tremolux, Back/Forward navigation has regressed in USC
[16:46] <mpt> e.g. navigate to "Accessories" and back to the lobby, and then to "Education" and then back, and you'll end up in "Accessories" rather than the lobby
[16:46] <dholbach> where's the "lobby"?
[16:47] <tremolux> mpt: yes, I noticed some nav problems myself, was planning to look into where that crept in...ug
[16:47]  * persia suspects the lobby to be where Bob lives
[16:48] <doko> http://launchpadlibrarian.net/43750033/buildlog_ubuntu-lucid-armel.libtunepimp_0.5.3-7.2ubuntu1_FAILEDTOBUILD.txt.gz
[16:48] <dholbach> persia: alright, see you there in a bit! :)
[16:48] <doko> any idea why this just fails on armel?
[16:49] <mpt> persia, Bob the builder? or Microsoft Bob?
[16:49] <mgiammarco_> sispoty ok will do
[16:50] <mpt> tremolux, reported bug 563128
[16:50] <tremolux> mpt: thanks!  we'll get that bad boy fixed up
[16:50] <persia> mpt: The latter, I was thinking.  Lobbies belong in buildings, not software :)
[16:51] <mpt> persia, yeah, the overall metaphor here is a department store, though we've not needed to express it much so far
[16:52] <persia> I hope that the concept can translate with poor expression in the future as well, as that allows other metaphors to share :)
[16:53] <james_w> doko: didn't you fix that in the next version?
[16:54] <doko> james_w: ohh, that was a late ubuntu1 build ...
[16:54] <mpt> persia, no idea what you mean there
[16:56] <persia> mpt: That I think physical metaphors (desktop, department store) are a good way to think about how to structure things, because we have a lot more experience with those interfaces, but that I believe it's to our advantage to avoid expressing our internal metaphors to users to encourage the development of new or alternate metaphors that can leverage the flexibility of software to improve on the real experience rather than on the attachment to the
[16:56] <persia>  metaphor.
[16:56] <persia> And in many cases, it may even be to our advantage to avoid clearly expressing these metaphors to each other, for the same reasons.
[16:58] <mpt> persia, it's quite the reverse here -- if/when we express it, it will be a user-level metaphor, not a development-level one
[16:58] <JanC> actually, some of those metaphors are difficult to translate too
[16:59] <james_w> does Build-Depends: nonexistant-package | existant-package work in Ubuntu?
[16:59] <cjwatson> yes
[16:59] <persia> mpt: You've just expressed it.  That said, why would you want to tell people "It's like an elephant" when it's not clearly ("elephant" picked here to avoid specifics).  The base model may be similar enough to be mistaken for "intuitive", but I'm not sure how it helps to point out the ways in which a translated interface doesn't match the model.
[17:00] <mpt> persia, sorry, I don't understand what you're talking about.
[17:00] <mpt> bbiab
[17:29] <primes2h> Keybuk: Hello, I saw that yesterday evening you talked with slangasek about plymouth 0.8.2 in bzr. Is there any chance to patch it with this bug #553954? :-) It's quite an annoying bug because the string is very visible (and quite big). tseliot has been working very hard to provide those patches in a short time.
[17:29] <Keybuk> I'm not happy with tseliot's approach
[17:30] <Keybuk> so not happy to apply his patch
[17:30] <Keybuk> especially this late in our release cycle
[17:30] <primes2h> Keybuk: What do you mean?
[17:30] <Keybuk> I mean exactly what I said
[17:31] <primes2h> are you talking about the string he put in mountall?
[17:31] <Keybuk> no, I'm talking about the entire approach of cutting a string up, putting part of it in one place, part of it in the other, etc.
[17:33] <Keybuk> because there's no way any kittens could be harmed that way
[17:33] <Keybuk> oh no
[17:33] <primes2h> Keybuk: ok, I could agree with you about this, but I don't think those patches can getting it worse as it is already
[17:34] <Keybuk> right now, the "bad" is just that there's a single string that's not translated
[17:34] <Keybuk> the worse could be that code segfaults during filesystem checks every time
[17:34] <Keybuk> I think I know which I prefer
[17:34] <primes2h> a very visible and quite big string.
[17:35] <Keybuk> I'd only agree with your position if there weren't other untranslated strings all over the place ;-)
[17:35] <Keybuk> if it were the *only* untranslated string, sure
[17:35] <Keybuk> and if it contained more information than "1 of 2: 54%"
[17:36] <primes2h> Ara you talking about the othe mountall pot bug?
[17:36] <primes2h> s/othe/other
[17:37] <primes2h> bug 559997
[17:37] <Keybuk> no
[17:37] <Keybuk> I'm asking the following question
[17:37] <Keybuk> is it a "CRITICAL" bug that there is a single string that is not translatable?
[17:38] <Keybuk> should we hold up the release for that to be fixed?
[17:38] <Keybuk> and I'm saying "no"
[17:38] <mandel> ping jono
[17:38] <Keybuk> it can't possibly be a critical bug, because there are hundreds (if not thousands) of strings not translated
[17:38] <Keybuk> it can't possible be a critical bug because the key information in the string is numerical anyway
[17:38] <Keybuk> so it's pretty obvious that "blah blah 1 blah 4 blah 54%"
[17:39] <Keybuk> which changes to "blah blah 2 blah 4 blah 23%"
[17:39] <Keybuk> means it's a progress
[17:39] <Keybuk> and the patch is not clean, and not simple
[17:40] <Keybuk> (and I'm sure this IRC conversation will end up on Reddit and HackerNews :p)
[17:43] <joaopinto> lol
[17:44] <primes2h> Keybuk: I agree with you about the fact it's not critical but the message it brings is quite important. I asked you about including the patch because I thought it were not so invasive. You told me it could bring segfault bug so I understand.
[17:44] <Keybuk> :-)
[17:44] <Keybuk> yeah, if it were just "stick _( ... ) around the string" I'd go for it like a shot
[17:45] <joaopinto> is the bug about the recovery / attempting to fix filesystem messages on boot loop reported ?
[17:45] <Keybuk> joaopinto: unsure
[17:46] <joaopinto> Keybuk, it was on my working laptop so I couldn't halt to gather data, but all saw someone else reporting the same experience on a blog entry
[17:46] <primes2h> Keybuk: so how do you think it can be correctly addressed?
[17:46] <joaopinto> I had a / corruption, and the messages where looping so fast that I couldn't read
[17:46] <Keybuk> you can probably replicate it by fucking with the real time clock ;)
[17:47] <Keybuk> primes2h: no idea, haven't thought about it yet
[17:47] <Keybuk> primes2h: I think we probably need to extend Plymouth to support "actions" rather than abusing usage
[17:47] <Keybuk> so things can say "doing blah, X% complete" properly
[17:48] <primes2h> Keybuk: The main problem for me is that the string hadn't to be there from the beginning.
[17:49] <primes2h> in plymouth, I mean.
[17:50] <Keybuk> "hadn't" ?
[17:50] <Keybuk> well, I was quite surprised that turned into a string at all
[17:50] <Keybuk> earlier in lucid they were really nice, cute progress bars
[17:50] <Keybuk> I liked that
[17:50] <Keybuk> no idea why Design wanted it to be a string
[17:51] <primes2h> I mean it shouldn't have been there
[17:51] <Keybuk> well, where else does the string go?
[17:52] <primes2h> Keybuk: A progress bar would be  better for sure.
[17:53] <Keybuk> they were progress bars
[17:53] <Keybuk> you'll have to talk to tseliot to find out why they're not anymore
[17:54] <primes2h> Keybuk: I know they were, I just don't understand why putting a string so visible without thinking about localization
[17:55] <primes2h> it's the only string in plymout not translatable, other are taken from mountall
[17:55] <primes2h> s/other/others
[17:56] <primes2h> from fsck too I think
[17:57] <Keybuk> primes2h: right, but mountall doesn't know that a check is "4 of 5"
[17:57] <Keybuk> and that's the kind of functionality we don't want in mountall
[17:57] <Keybuk> since mountall is supposed to *go away* at some point
[17:59] <primes2h> Keybuk: you are right, the chosen package is wrong
[18:00] <ogra_cmpc> Keybuk, so the mountall fsck in endless loop bug gets really serious in armel
[18:00] <Keybuk> clearly plymouth themes need to support localisation though
[18:00] <Keybuk> ogra_cmpc: please help debug and fix then!
[18:00] <ogra_cmpc> Keybuk, how did you fix it ? (you said you were expecting it to be fixed)
[18:01] <Keybuk> ogra_cmpc: I didn't fix it
[18:01] <Keybuk> and I didn't say I was expecting to
[18:01] <Keybuk> I don't know about that bug
[18:01] <primes2h> Keybuk: I was just suggesting it
[18:01] <ogra_cmpc> you said you did when we talked last time
[18:01] <primes2h> Keybuk: plymouth theme needs to support localisation
[18:01] <Keybuk> primes2h: that's probably the *right* fix - add l10n support to plymouth themes
[18:01] <Keybuk> most probably just script
[18:01] <Keybuk> ogra_cmpc: no I didn't
[18:01] <Keybuk> ogra_cmpc: I may have been talking about a completely different bug
[18:02] <ogra_cmpc> Keybuk, if the mount time if / is in the future mountall goes into an endless fsck loop without getting you to a console
[18:02] <Keybuk> ogra_cmpc: I don't know about that bug
[18:02] <ogra_cmpc> Keybuk, do you see a chance that we can possibly ignore the mount time completely ?
[18:03] <Keybuk> ogra_cmpc: if you could file it, or point me at a bug#, and attach --debug I would appreciate it
[18:03] <Keybuk> ogra_cmpc: not by default, no
[18:03] <primes2h> Keybuk: I suggested it as the first option on a bug comment.
[18:03] <primes2h> https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/plymouth/+bug/553954/comments/1
[18:03] <Keybuk> primes2h: patches welcome ;-)
[18:03] <ogra_cmpc> Keybuk, it must be filed since months i'm not on a machine to look atm, but will get you a reference
[18:03] <Keybuk> ogra_cmpc: and get me mountall --debug of it happening
[18:03] <ogra_cmpc> Keybuk, i know asac was bugged by it in portland
[18:04] <primes2h> I know ;-)
[18:04] <ogra_cmpc> Keybuk, no way ... you cant get to the point where the daemoin would start, fsck loops
[18:04] <Keybuk> the daemon must be started
[18:04] <Keybuk> the daemon is what calls fsck
[18:04] <Keybuk> so you must be able to get --debug output
[18:04] <ogra_cmpc> doesnt fsck run before ?
[18:04] <ogra_cmpc> oh, ok
[18:07] <vish> mvo: hi.. software center was using a monochrome icon in the categories [weather-clear-sky ] , added an icon for applications-astronomy in humanity , have a look at this branch https://code.launchpad.net/~vish.../software-center/avoidmonochromeicon/+merge/23413 , it just changes the name in the icon name in data/software-center.menu.in file , should fix the issue
[18:07] <ogra_cmpc> Keybuk, the prob i have now is though thatwe start to support HW that doesnt have an rtc battery ... so the clock will always be wrong until network is up
[18:07] <vish> rather weather-clear-night*
[18:07] <Keybuk> ogra_cmpc: that's unrelated to the bug you are reporting to me
[18:08] <ogra_cmpc> no, thats the core issue
[18:08] <Keybuk> no, the core issue as far as I'm concerned is that the problem isn't fixed and it enters a loop
[18:08] <Keybuk> ;-)
[18:08] <ogra_cmpc> fsck kicks off because last mount is in the future
[18:08] <Keybuk> yes
[18:08] <Keybuk> that's a filesystem inconsistency
[18:09] <ogra_cmpc> well, i dont want iusers to end up on the fsck console every boot :)
[18:09] <Keybuk> I don't want users to have a potentially serious problem hidden from them
[18:10] <ogra_cmpc> but the clock will be at some certain date 2000 on every boot until we have network (if we even ever have that)
[18:10] <Keybuk> so that's a hardware problem
[18:10] <ogra_cmpc> its a design problem indeed
[18:11] <ogra_cmpc> but none i can solve
[18:11] <Keybuk> so what's your clock source on this hardware?
[18:11] <ogra_cmpc> ntp only ... there is a rtc device but no battery
[18:12] <ogra_cmpc> its TI omap beagleboard
[18:12]  * ogra_cmpc isnt nearthe board atm, actually taking a break
[18:12] <Keybuk> right, so it's not a problem actual users are ever going to see
[18:12] <Keybuk> because actual users will be using real hardware that does have a battery
[18:12] <ogra_cmpc> the system doesnt boot
[18:12] <Keybuk> it's just a dev board issue
[18:13] <ogra_cmpc> err
[18:15] <svu> Keybuk, I found the matter of problem. mountall does not enable my volume group. Have to do it on every boot, manually
[18:15] <Keybuk> svu: mountall has nothing to do with volume groups
[18:15] <Keybuk> it doesn't know about LVM at all
[18:15] <Keybuk> it's up to LVM to enable things
[18:16] <svu> Keybuk, ghm. ok. SOMEONE has to enable vg. And it does not do that
[18:17] <Keybuk> svu: lvm should
[18:17]  * svu thought it was a part of the mount process
[18:17] <Keybuk> it's done from a udev rule
[18:17] <Keybuk> when a block device appears with an LVM signature, lvm vgscan etc. is called
[18:17] <Keybuk> that's supposed to enable them and create devmapper devices
[18:17] <svu> Keybuk, I see. but it fails. Wonder why...
[18:17] <Keybuk> which is what mountall sees
[18:17] <Keybuk> no idea
[18:18] <svu> so udev rules fail for some reason
[18:20] <Keybuk> svu: yes, lvm bug
[18:21] <svu> pitti, ping?
[18:21] <svu> Keybuk, or udev?
[18:21] <zyga> hello
[18:21] <Keybuk> no, not udev
[18:21] <Keybuk> lvm
[18:21] <zyga> mvo: evening!
[18:21] <Keybuk> if udev wasn't working, you'd have nothing on your system - no drivers loaded, no mouse, no keyboard, no display, no filesystems, etc.
[18:21] <svu> can udev rules fail?
[18:22] <Keybuk> udev is clearly working just fine
[18:22] <Keybuk> it's a bug in lvm
[18:22] <ogra_cmpc> Keybuk, so would something like a -dveloper-board switch/bootoption/whatever be possible that makes fsck ignore the clock skew ?
[18:22] <ogra_cmpc> the current solution people use is to to turn the pass sequence number in fstab and /lib/init/fstab to 0 ... thats surely worse than ignoring a wrong clock
[18:29] <ogra_cmpc> sigh
[18:29]  * ogra_cmpc just accidentially found out his laptop was connected to the neighbors wlan
[18:30] <ogra_cmpc> and i was wondering about the huge lag, tsk
[18:30] <ogra_cmpc> Keybuk, btw it took amitk and me the whole day to find the issue on the beagle because the kernel didnt have fbcon working (we were debuggong through serial) mountall doesnt seem to spit out any output in that case
[18:30] <ogra_cmpc> i assume yu are planning to change that given the cdomment in init/mountall.conf ?
[18:30] <ogra_cmpc> or do you need a bug ?
[18:39] <pitti> svu: hello
[18:40] <svu> pitti, hello. I was told you could give some insight on why lvm VG is not activated by udev. would you know anything about that?
[18:42] <ccheney> doko: ping
[18:42] <ccheney> doko: NCommander and I were working on getting a patch to work for OOo and the test for armel seems not to be working to apply -marm for the build
[18:48] <pitti> svu: I'm not that much of an LVM expert (much less than kees), but I know some bits about how it ought to work
[18:50] <svu> pitti, which udev rule should I check, if you know?
[18:51] <pitti> svu: is there a bug about it with some details? udev dump, description of the setup, etc.?
[18:52] <svu> pitti, well, I just got the hint about udev. There is a bug against lvm
[18:52] <pitti> svu: I had expected /lib/udev/rules.d/85-lvm2.rules to bring them up
[18:52] <pitti> well, udev executes the rules, but the rules/tools are provided by the lvm2 package
[18:52] <Keybuk> ogra_cmpc: a kernel command-line option is an interesting way to do it
[18:53] <Keybuk> right now we can't pass options to e2fsck though
[18:53] <Keybuk> so that would be an effort to implement
[18:53] <ogra_cmpc> Keybuk, well, i9 didnt know about /etc/e2fsck.conf
[18:53] <ogra_cmpc> that will already help
[18:53] <svu> pitti, https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/lvm2/+bug/554478
[18:53] <Keybuk> ogra_cmpc: I'm sure I've told you about it about a dozen times ;-)
[18:53] <svu> pitti, I see
[18:54] <ogra_cmpc> Keybuk, yeah, i'm over 40 now ... you have to be patient with the elders *g*
[18:57]  * Keybuk puts ogra_cmpc in a home
[18:57] <ogra_cmpc> lol
[19:07] <slangasek> kirkland: hrm, why did base-files become responsible for the update-notifier cleanup?
[19:08] <kirkland> slangasek: discussion with mvo
[19:08] <kirkland> slangasek: see the linked bug
[19:08] <kirkland> slangasek: that update-manager (notifier) cache file gets updated at most once per week
[19:09] <kirkland> slangasek: telling you if there's a new ubuntu release available
[19:09] <kirkland> slangasek: if you take action on that (upgrading your release), we need to clear the flag
[19:09] <Damascene> hi
[19:09] <kirkland> slangasek: else you'll have stale data in that cache file for up to a week
[19:09] <kirkland> slangasek: the file that update-manager (notifier) uses to determine this is /etc/lsb-release
[19:10] <kirkland> slangasek: which is owned by base-files
[19:10] <Damascene> bug 562130
[19:10] <zul> slangasek: hi i was wondering if the autofs5 FFE got approved
[19:10] <Damascene> what should I do to help with this bug fixing?
[19:10] <kirkland> slangasek: so mvo and i discussed it, and it seemed to make sense for base-files to clear that flag (and run a new update) on base-files upgrade (since that's how /etc/lsb-release gets changed)
[19:11] <kirkland> slangasek: i waffled on running the update; that could be dropped
[19:11] <slangasek> kirkland: ah
[19:11] <kirkland> slangasek: does that make sense to you?
[19:11] <ogra_cmpc> oh, i didnt know base-files carries lsb-release
[19:11] <kirkland> slangasek: b/c mvo had a slightly more complex solution that could be contained in update-manager
[19:11] <slangasek> kirkland: yeah - wish it wasn't base-files, but it at least makes sense
[19:12] <kirkland> slangasek: sorry...  what's wrong with base-files?
[19:12] <slangasek> zul: haven't revisited it yet, sorry; will do today
[19:12] <zul> slangasek; k thanks
[19:12] <slangasek> kirkland: that's not a package that should have complexity added to it if it can be avoided
[19:12] <kirkland> slangasek: ah
[19:13] <kirkland> slangasek: i'd like to get some advice from you at some point if i should try to get our pam_motd changes into Debian and/or upstream pam
[19:15] <slangasek> kirkland: yes, we should have that conversation at some point
[19:15] <slangasek> but not this month :)
[19:15] <kirkland> slangasek: ack ;-)
[19:16] <micahg> pitti: can we change the genuine package message in apport to say not a genuine package or possibly out of date?
[19:28] <slangasek> micahg: not right now, we're in deep translation freeze
[19:29] <micahg> slangasek: ok, next cycle?
[19:29] <slangasek> if pitti agrees :)
[19:29]  * ogra_cmpc shudders hearing slangasek say the word freeze
[19:29] <slangasek> freeeeeeeeeeze
[19:29]  * slangasek puckers his lips and makes an ominous howling wind sound
[19:30] <ogra_cmpc> giggle
[19:30] <ogra_cmpc> slangasek, when do you plan to call for it tomorrow ?
[19:30]  * mvo freezes instantly
[19:31] <slangasek> ogra_cmpc: 0000 UTC
[19:31]  * ogra_cmpc still has a bunch of flash-kernel changes on the plate for omap
[19:31] <bdrung_cbase> where can i get the font of the new ubuntu logo? and how many characters are ready?
[19:31] <ogra_cmpc> slangasek, like *tonight* ?!?
[19:32] <Keybuk>  5397 scott     20   0  114m  27m  15m R   42  1.9   0:01.06 chromium-browse
[19:32] <Keybuk>  2481 scott     20   0 57480 2288 1760 S   25  0.2   0:09.28 chromium-browse
[19:32] <Keybuk>  2479 scott     20   0  250m  52m  18m S   19  3.7   3:52.63 chromium-browse
[19:32] <Keybuk>  5409 scott     20   0  116m  19m  14m S   15  1.4   0:00.25 chromium-browse
[19:32] <Keybuk> urgh
[19:32] <Keybuk> chromium is gang-banging my CPU :-(
[19:32] <ogra_cmpc> fun
[19:33] <slangasek> ogra_cmpc: that's always the official freeze time, and it will be enforced rather closely this time
[19:33] <slangasek> ogra_cmpc: presumably your flash-kernel changes need to get in and would be accepted if uploaded to the freeze queue?
[19:34] <ogra_cmpc> slangasek, yes
[19:34] <ogra_cmpc> slangasek, but we only got a properly working kernel today so i'm totally behind
[19:35] <slangasek> Keybuk: hey, interesting follow-up in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/plymouth/+bug/554737/comments/30 - does mountall not make sure it's sent all its writes to plymouth before emitting the 'filesystem' signal?
[19:35] <slangasek> Keybuk: since emitting 'filesystem' will kill plymouthd, with perhaps random strings left on the screen :)
[19:37] <peteris_> ccheney, here?
[19:38] <ccheney> peteris_: yea
[19:38] <peteris_> ccheney, any success with Latvian OO.o 3.2 translation? :)
[19:38] <ccheney> peteris_: it is going into the build i am working on, hopefully to upload in a few hours
[19:39] <fta> doko, by "misconfiguration in the Ubuntu build", do you mean in icedtea or in chromium?
[19:40] <peteris_> ccheney, nice! is it final build or we could have some fixes slipped in? :)
[19:40] <ccheney> peteris_: final freeze is in about 6 hours i think
[19:40] <ccheney> peteris_: so i have to upload before then
[19:42] <peteris_> ccheney, ok, then it's gone forward. Thanks for including us even so late! :)
[19:42] <ccheney> peteris_: no problem :)
[19:59] <apw> slangasek, we are still working on an issue with dells overheating.  if we manage to fix that this week how likely would you be to allow us to upload before release
[19:59] <slangasek> apw: is it going to change the package names?
[20:00] <apw> slangasek, it cannot see any reason it would be an abi bumper ... so no
[20:01] <apw> it would also only be the main 'linux' no other kernels would be rev'd
[20:01] <slangasek> apw: is there risk of hardware damage from the overheating or does it shut down cleanly from ACPI?  and is the problem so severe that it would inhibit being able to upgrade to a fixed kernel?
[20:02] <apw> all the cases i have seen to lead to an ACPI shutdown, so it would be possible to upgrade i believe
[20:03] <ccheney> assuming it wasn't a large upgrade causing the system to overheat during the process, heh :)
[20:03] <slangasek> apw: if you can get it in tomorrow, I think we can accomodate it
[20:04] <apw> slangasek, ok thanks for that ... if we can't it'll have to be an SRU
[20:05] <apw> slangasek, what time does the freeze start in which timezone
[20:05] <slangasek> apw: 0:00 UTC
[20:05] <apw> slangasek, thanks
[20:07] <dupondje> dell overheating ? :) bug # ? seems like I don't have this issue :)
[20:07] <ogra_cmpc> slangasek, probably put that into /topic :)
[20:07]  * ogra_cmpc BETS THAT WILL COME UP MORE OFTEN THE NEXT HOURS
[20:07] <ogra_cmpc> OOPS
[20:09] <Damascene> bug 562130
[20:10] <Damascene> any help?
[20:14] <kirkland> ogra: lool: around?  i have an idea re: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qemu-kvm/+bug/532733
[20:15] <slangasek> Damascene: weren't you already given the answer the other day that we're not going to change the default terminal emulator, for any language, this close to release?  changes like this need to be proposed and evaluated early in the release cycle, not the day of the final freeze
[20:16] <Damascene> :)
[20:16] <Damascene> who said I'm asking to be in Lucid?
[20:17] <slangasek> well, er, lucid is the only Ubuntu release currently under development, and you're on #ubuntu-devel, so it's kinda implied. ;)
[20:17] <Damascene> I just want to make sure that will be ready for 10.10
[20:18] <Damascene> we all want ubuntu to stay the best
[20:18] <zyga> mvo: around?
[20:18] <mvo> zyga: yes, but super busy (sorry)
[20:19] <zyga> mvo: ok
[20:19] <mvo> zyga: or do you have more fixes :) ?
[20:19] <kirkland> ogra: lool: i posted a couple of suggestions to https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qemu-kvm/+bug/532733
[20:20] <vish> mvo: could you review the merge? it is a simple fix ;)   https://code.launchpad.net/~vish.../software-center/avoidmonochromeicon/+merge/23413
[20:20] <Damascene> slangasek, could you give me some hints on what I should do for now?
[20:20] <zyga> mvo: no, I was going to ask you about 538306 (it's waiting on your decision)
[20:20] <mvo> vish: yes, will do before the night is over, I have it on my list :)
[20:20] <vish> mvo: awesome thanks :)
[20:21] <zyga> mvo: I'm still preparing fixes for software-center (even we're at freeze nowdays)
[20:22] <mvo> zyga: thats fine, thanks, fixes can go in after the freeze too, I just want to get done as much as possible today to not put too much burden on the release team
[20:22] <zyga> mvo: understood
[20:22] <mvo> zyga: c-n-f, I have a look at the diff again, but I'm inclinded to leave it as it is now, 2-3 weeks ago it was fine, but now …
[20:23] <zyga> mvo: okay, I'll make a better version for maverick, thanks
[20:23] <slangasek> Damascene: the bug appears to already be in the right state thanks to persia; I don't think there's anything to do for now besides be patient
[20:23] <mvo> thanks zyga
[20:24] <slangasek> Damascene: mlterm will need a MainInclusionRequest done, but there's not much sense in doing that before May
[20:24] <Damascene>  ok, thanks
[20:30] <Keybuk> slangasek: hey, I think I just missed you saying something really important
[20:30] <Keybuk> they called lunch :)
[20:31] <slangasek> heh
[20:31] <slangasek> Keybuk: hey, interesting follow-up in https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/plymouth/+bug/554737/comments/30 - does mountall not make sure it's sent all its writes to plymouth before emitting the 'filesystem' signal?
[20:31] <Keybuk> so I'm nicely full of steamed pork buns now
[20:31] <slangasek> Keybuk: since emitting 'filesystem' will kill plymouthd, with perhaps random strings left on the screen :)
[20:31] <Keybuk> why would it flush writes before emitting a filesystem?
[20:31] <Keybuk> oh, interesting
[20:31] <dupondje> hehe :) I had that bug today
[20:32] <Keybuk> no, it doesn't do that
[20:32] <dupondje> fsck stuck @ 78%
[20:32] <Keybuk> it should probably flush before any event though
[20:32] <Keybuk> dupondje: did it continue to boot or was it properly stuck?
[20:32] <Keybuk> on the basis we shouldn't "hard code" knowledge in mountall that filesystem is the one that might kill plymouth
[20:32] <slangasek> fair
[20:32] <dupondje> It stayed @ 78% for like 5 minutes
[20:33] <dupondje> then I gave up and rebooted :)
[20:33] <Keybuk> dupondje: right, that's the underlying bug that it seems that Steve has fixed
[20:34] <dupondje> not yet released ?
[20:34] <bdrung_cbase> how can i get a serial number (or something similar unique) from a cd drive? i want to use it in a script.
[20:35] <Keybuk> slangasek: on the bpp thing, I hit a slight snag ;-)
[20:35] <slangasek> ah?
[20:36] <Keybuk> the vga16fb renderer has code to attempt to reduce the number of colours to fit in the palette
[20:36] <Keybuk> if you're using 16-color images, you don't want that code
[20:37] <Keybuk> so need not only a "Get the BPP" function
[20:37] <Keybuk> but a "Set that I'm going to write Indexed images, so don't reduce the bit depth" flag
[20:38] <slangasek> dupondje: in a PPA, details in bug #554737; don't use it if you're using nouveau kms
[20:38] <slangasek> Keybuk: because the code will screw up the palette of the already-indexed image?
[20:38] <Keybuk> slangasek: yup
[20:38] <slangasek> well, fun
[20:39] <Keybuk> the other theory is to have the vga16fb renderer "check the pixel buffer"
[20:39] <Keybuk> if the buffer has no more than 16-colors anyway, don't use that code
[20:39] <Keybuk> am experimenting with both
[20:39] <Keybuk> I think the latter might actually work better
[20:39] <slangasek> Keybuk: how soon do you think you'll have that sorted?  As long as we're having to change all the theme packages for this, I think we should give the i18n patch a go at the same time
[20:40] <Keybuk> though I'm being distracted by someone explaining to Till that HAL has actually been removed from both Ubuntu and Fedora
[20:40] <Keybuk> and he's getting quite upset about that
[20:40] <Keybuk> so that's amusing
[20:40] <Keybuk> slangasek: oh, working on it right now - so today
[20:40] <slangasek> ok
[20:40] <slangasek> Till is getting upset about hal's removal?
[20:40] <Keybuk> yes
[20:40] <Keybuk> there may be tears
[20:41] <Keybuk> apparently HAL still exists on Mandriva
[20:41] <slangasek> heh
[20:41] <seb128> Keybuk, svu: the lvm2 source didn't change for 8 weeks and the bug started recently so it's likely due to some other change
[20:41] <Keybuk> seb128: nothing to do with me
[20:41] <Keybuk> I don't do lvm
[20:42] <seb128> Keybuk, I'm just saying it changed while lvm didn't change so it's doesn't seem a lvm bug, or lvm was relying on something which changed
[20:43] <seb128> Keybuk, I've no clue what it could be though, could be linux
[20:45] <Keybuk> right, most likely the kernel side of lvm
[20:45] <slangasek> seb128: what's the bug?
[20:45] <Keybuk> almost half of lvm/devmapper is in the kernel after all
[20:45] <Keybuk> slangasek: lvm is apparently not activating vgs/lvs for svu
[20:45] <slangasek> hmm
[20:46] <slangasek> still works reliably for me
[20:46] <seb128> slangasek, he's on ppc if that makes any different and that started happening like a week ago I think according to what he said
[20:47] <slangasek> sure, that might make a difference
[20:47] <slangasek> and I agree that it's most likely the kernel
[20:48] <seb128> I think he said that booting the previous kernel was still not working though
[20:48] <slangasek> hmm
[20:48] <seb128> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mountall/+bug/554478
[20:48] <seb128> slangasek, ^
[20:48] <zyga> seb128: if it helps with anything I could try this with ps3 (ppc64 after all)
[20:49] <seb128> zyga, thanks for asking, it's out of my domain though so I will let people who understand lvm reply on whether that would be useful ;-)
[20:50] <seb128> svu, btw as the very similar one you copied your bug in the comment
[20:51] <slangasek> zyga: yes, I think it would be helpful to try to reproduce it on another ppc
[20:51] <zyga> slangasek: downloading daily image for ppc now
[20:52] <zyga> slangasek: this will take about 60 minutes for me, should I setup lvm or just attempt to boot at all?
[20:52] <slangasek> zyga: ehm, only lvm is relevant
[20:52] <slangasek> so you would need to set it up, yes :)
[20:52] <zyga> slangasek: no problem
[20:53] <zyga> slangasek: will you stick around for one more hour?
[20:53] <slangasek> several, as it happens
[20:53] <zyga> slangasek: I will have the CD in 25 minutes
[20:56] <jibel_> mr_pouit, thanks a lot for the new changelog scheme, that was fast.
[21:07] <mr_pouit> jibel_: no problem, it was only some shell scripting. I haven't tested with update-manager yet though…
[21:11] <jibel_> mr_pouit, I tested with u-m and synaptic and that's fine. now waiting for ppa's changelogs :)
[21:12] <mvo> \o/ jibel_ and mr_pouit
[21:18] <ccheney> it appears dput on chinstrap doesn't upload all the v3 files specified in a changes file
[21:18] <ccheney> actually hmm no thats not quite true
[21:18] <ccheney> the .dsc for some reason doesn't list all the file it needs to upload gar
[21:19] <bdrung_cbase> ccheney: what file do you miss?
[21:19] <ccheney> s/.dsc/.changes/
[21:19] <ccheney> the .dsc has them all
[21:19] <ccheney> eg the .changes only lists
[21:19] <ccheney>  008c0f2d7821a0e3c27de594d9f10f5355bc87cb 9167 openoffice.org_3.2.0-7ubuntu1.dsc b73172dea71eb365940be6e1933e90867adb7957 3667091 openoffice.org_3.2.0-7ubuntu1.debian.tar.gz
[21:19] <ccheney> but the .dsc has and should have the following as well
[21:19] <ccheney>  1dffc3a79dd3622d9c6a4b2e33d9d318c56bb3da 14582133 openoffice.org_3.2.0.orig-ext-sources-ooo-build-3-2-0-10.tar.gz 7b322b188a51976028c2dbf189356a958bc48549 13181789 openoffice.org_3.2.0.orig-ooo-build-3-2-0-10.tar.gz
[21:20] <ccheney> do i need to a -sa build any time any source changes?
[21:20] <ccheney> it seems it must not be smart enough to include just the changed parts (of course i don't know how it would be smart enough anyway)
[21:20] <slangasek> if it's an upstream source, yes
[21:20] <zyga> slangasek: I have ppc daily cd, will test now
[21:20] <ccheney> slangasek: ah ok
[21:20] <bdrung_cbase> ccheney: yes, if you want the source included
[21:21] <ccheney> i don't need all the sources but the changed ones, i guess that still implies -sa since it would be hard for dpkg to figure out what changed
[21:21] <bdrung_cbase> ccheney: it will only add it automatically if it's the first upload of the package
[21:21] <ccheney> ok
[21:23] <ccheney> that won't get the package rejected overall if one of the sources is still the same as the first upstream upload will it?
[21:23] <slangasek> no
[21:23] <ccheney> ok thanks :)
[21:23] <slangasek> only if it has the same *name* as an existing component but doesn't match
[21:24] <ccheney> slangasek: ok
[21:26] <ccheney> ok OOo is now uploaded, hoping for no more rejections :)
[21:28] <ScottK> ccheney: Is this one supposed to work on armel?
[21:30] <ccheney> ScottK: possibly, NCommander was having trouble making -marm actually apply for some reason (i don't know why)
[21:30] <ccheney> ScottK: its using the same if statement format as was used for ICU Os optimization
[21:31] <ScottK> ccheney: OK.  I'm sort of on hot standbye to unseed OOo from Kubuntu Netbook if it doesn't end well.
[21:31] <ccheney> ScottK: if the -marm isn't applying it appears that dpkg-architecture isn't returning the right name for the arch or something similarly weird
[21:32] <ScottK> Nice
[21:33] <ccheney> its pretty straight forward just:
[21:33] <ccheney> ifneq (,$(filter $(ARCH), arm armel)) ARCH_FLAGS += -marm
[21:33] <ccheney> endif
[21:34] <ccheney> there should be a return after the )
[21:34] <slangasek> "arm" - bah, dead arch, why bother? :)
[21:34] <slangasek> "armel" should be sufficient
[21:34] <ccheney> ARCH is set via: ARCH := $(shell dpkg-architecture -qDEB_HOST_ARCH)
[21:35] <ccheney> slangasek: i added the arm myself in case of the weirdness :-\
[21:35] <ccheney> the ifneq statement worked when i changed it to check for amd64
[21:35] <ccheney> so i have no idea what is going on for the arm test he did
[21:38] <joaopinto> any bug report but about "unreliable button press" with some usb mouses on Lucid ?
[21:40] <joaopinto> generic-usb 0003:046D:C51B.0004: input,hidraw0: USB HID v1.11 Mouse [Logitech USB Receiver] on usb-0000:00:1d.0-1/input0 to be more precise
[21:43] <joaopinto> hum, can't reproduce the problem now :\
[21:44] <ScottK> Apparently not unreliable enough
[21:44] <joaopinto> while moving the mouse a button release event is being triggered
[21:45] <joaopinto> it worked fine on windows, but since it's random it could be broken :P
[21:57] <svu> seb128, oops, you are right, I will give the url to the right bug
[22:06] <zyga> slangasek: installation failed mid-flight package dependency issues, I'm checking if the system is bootable
[22:06] <mpt> tremolux, any progress with bug 563128?
[22:07] <tremolux> mpt: yes, it's fixed, just uploading to trunk as we speak
[22:07] <mpt> great
[22:10] <slangasek> zyga: oh, you said you were downloading a daily, didn't you?  beta2 would have been a better bet, Ithink
[22:11] <Keybuk> slangasek: very untested code committed and pushed for bug #558352
[22:11] <zyga> slangasek: hurm, I'll download beta2 as well then
[22:11] <Keybuk> with a still missing image
[22:19] <slangasek> Keybuk: ok, cool - eta on the image?
[22:19] <Keybuk> kwwii-time
[22:19] <Keybuk> two to three years?
[22:19] <slangasek> I thought you'd said earlier that you already had the image?
[22:22] <Keybuk> no
[22:22] <Keybuk> I had all but one
[22:22] <Keybuk> kwwii missed one out of the set
[22:22] <slangasek> ah
[22:24] <Keybuk> kwwii has sent me the missing image
[22:25] <Keybuk> I'm just waiting for the network to give it to me
[22:26] <Keybuk> please test the 16-color stuff hard ;-)
[22:27] <Keybuk> slangasek: all pushed
[22:35] <slangasek> Keybuk: yep, will get it tested in the next 3h or so
[22:36] <slangasek> Keybuk: now, what do we do about nvidia in the nearterm?  I guess you have smb this week, so I can't pick his brain about libdrm; and we can't put that regression in the archive... what are the consequences of disabling the drm backend for all nouveau until we get this sorted?
[22:36] <svu> it seems udev ignore lvm rule. funny
[22:37] <Keybuk> slangasek: can't think of an obvious one
[22:37] <Keybuk> it'll look a bit crappy on multi-head I guess
[22:37] <Keybuk> and you won't get a smooth X transition
[22:37]  * slangasek nods
[22:37] <slangasek> those are the issues I knew of, both seem acceptable trade-offs under the circumstances
[22:37] <Keybuk> yeah
[22:37] <Keybuk> works > pretty
[22:38] <Keybuk> svu: the rule is probably wrong
[22:39] <Keybuk> udev doesn't just "ignore" rules
[22:40] <ScottK> It will once it's a teenager.
[22:41] <slangasek> fear the day when going to the bar to get away from udev is no longer effective
[22:43] <svu> Keybuk, SUBSYSTEM=="block", ACTION=="add|change", ENV{ID_FS_TYPE}=="lvm*|LVM*", \
[22:43] <svu> 	RUN+="watershed sh -c '/sbin/lvm vgscan; /sbin/lvm vgchange -a y'" RUN+="echo lvm2 udev rule called > /dev/lvm-logfile"
[22:43] <svu> (hopefully 2 lines is not a flood)
[22:43] <Keybuk> err
[22:43] <Keybuk> what
[22:44] <Keybuk> that's clearly wrong ;)
[22:44] <svu> funny. I did not change that
[22:44] <Keybuk> someone did
[22:44] <svu> except adding last RUN
[22:44] <Keybuk> it's got a "/dev/lvm-logfile" thing on it
[22:44] <svu> yes, that was the thing recommended in bug report - i added it
[22:44] <svu> just today
[22:44] <svu> 20 mins ago
[22:45] <Keybuk> you're missing a "," ;-)
[22:45] <svu> arrrrrrgh:)
[22:45] <Keybuk> though I have a vague feeling that *replaces* the previous RUN+=
[22:45] <svu> how stupid I am...
[22:45] <svu> ok, will be back in 5 mins:)
[22:46] <slangasek> well, even if it does replace it, it should still give us new information :)
[22:46] <slangasek> the rule's already not working for ihm
[22:46] <slangasek> him
[22:46]  * kees is damn curious what's causing his lvm issue
[22:51] <svu> inserting comma did not help:)
[22:52] <slangasek> seb128, chrisccoulson: bug #519541 is a hang in abiword, but I've tried to debug it and AFAICS it's a bug in thread handling within gconf+ORBit when calling gtk_show_uri (http://launchpadlibrarian.net/43377610/gdb-backtrace.txt); does this sound familiar to either of you, or is there any chance you'd be able to put together a simple test case for gtk_show_uri() to rule this out?
[22:53] <slangasek> svu: kees also asked whether the rules are present in your initramfs, can you check that?
[22:53] <svu> even with the comma, I still do not see that log file
[22:54] <svu> slangasek, ghm. good question. You mean - unpack the initrd?
[22:54] <slangasek> svu:  zcat /boot/initrd.img-$(uname -r)|cpio -t | grep lvm
[22:55] <svu> yes, there is that rule
[22:55] <kees> well, zcat /boot/initrd.img-$(uname -r)|cpio -t | grep rules    too, in case there is weird stuff in there
[22:55] <slangasek> would there be stuff so weird that it would cause the lvm2 rule to be skipped?
[22:55] <svu> nothing particularly weird, I'd say
[22:56] <slangasek> it would have to overwrite SUBSYSTEM, ACTION, or ID_FS_TYPE to achieve that
[22:56] <slangasek> svu: you should set your /lib/udev/rules.d/85-lvm2.rules back to the way it was originally, then
[22:57] <kees> svu: can you pastebin the grep for rules, just to humor me?
[22:57] <svu> slangasek, ok I wll
[22:57] <svu> kees, http://pastebin.com/e8EU8yZ7
[22:59] <slangasek> could it be mdadm?
[22:59] <slangasek> that's the only thing in there that I don't have on my system
[22:59] <svu> ghm. Should I disable it?
[22:59] <kees> I have those
[23:00] <slangasek> svu: not if you're using mdadm, you shouldn't
[23:00] <dupondje> hmmm, when trying to mount a smb share: [29612.969676] gvfsd-smb[12227] general protection ip:7f9961f4873a sp:7f995dc5df30 error:0 in libc-2.11.1.so[7f9961ed1000+178000]
[23:00] <kees> those mdadm rules should both be there.  hmpf
[23:00] <svu> slangasek, I think I do not use it - unless lvm has hidden dependency
[23:00] <chrisccoulson> slangasek - that doesn't look too familiar to me, and there shouldn't be anything particularly wrong with gtk_show_uri (it's just a wrapper for a GIO call which is used in lots of places)
[23:00] <W3ird_N3rd> Hope I'm in the right channel. I think the netboot ISO is broken again. one or two days ago it couldn't finish because seemlingly no mirror had kernel modules, today no IP can be obtained using DHCP
[23:01] <chrisccoulson> i can recreate that hang though so i might be able to investigate it
[23:01] <W3ird_N3rd> I am using http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/
[23:01] <slangasek> chrisccoulson: it's reported to not occur with abiword on other distros, and I don't see *any* thread-mangling in abiword itself, so it really looks like a lib bug to me
[23:02] <kees> svu: what does blkid /path/to/a/pv  report for you?
[23:03] <svu> kees, what would be typical /path/to/a/pv ?
[23:03] <kees> svu: "sudo pvs" should list them all
[23:03] <seb128> slangasek, I doubt gtk behaves any differently on ubuntu
[23:04] <svu> $ blkid /dev/sdb1
[23:04] <svu> /dev/sdb1: UUID="53eHzV-oR6r-SImQ-bO63-BxGa-liKx-P4c215" TYPE="LVM2_member"
[23:04] <dupondje> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gvfs/+bug/563409 => how can I create more information?
[23:04] <kees> I think blkid is fine, though, since it reports LVM2_member in udev log.  yeah
[23:04]  * dupondje slaps ubottu  :)
[23:04] <slangasek> seb128: the commentors were comparing the same version of abiword across distros, not the same version of gtk
[23:05] <seb128> slangasek, could also be a build option I guess
[23:06] <slangasek> svu: how long does 'vgchange -a y' take to run on your machine?
[23:06] <kees> hm, how is the udev transition across initramfs to rootfs handled?
[23:06] <svu> slangasek, very fast. fraction of second
[23:07] <kees> is it possible that there is some kind of race where a disk comes online, udev stops, pivots, starts, and the event is missed?  I can't imagine this is happening or we'd have all kinds of other problems
[23:09] <svu> kees, err.... I cannot tell really. How would I check?
[23:10] <kees> svu: mostly me just thinking out loud, hoping slangasek or Keybuk might think of something.  /me goes to re-read the initramfs scripts
[23:11] <slangasek> kees: so, I read the initramfs scripts earlier today and can't figure out *what* it does
[23:11] <kees> hah
[23:11] <slangasek> I thought udev kept running after starting in the initramfs
[23:11] <slangasek> but I can't see where it's told to chroot
[23:11] <slangasek> or told to stop
[23:11] <svu> kees, I see:)
[23:11] <slangasek> or where it's told how to write a pid that upstart can pick p
[23:12] <slangasek> up
[23:12] <lifeless> persia: do you recall the latest time that asia membership meetings have been held ? Trying to decide whether to stand or nto
[23:12] <W3ird_N3rd> nobody here uses netboot?
[23:12] <slangasek> oh, there we go - /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/init-bottom/udev
[23:12] <Keybuk> slangasek: none of the above
[23:12] <kees> slangasek: I imagine udev stays running, since it just writes to /dev and due to the bind mounts, it never actually pivots
[23:12] <Keybuk> it kills udev
[23:12] <slangasek> "pkill udevd"
[23:13] <W3ird_N3rd> or has a clue otherwise what to do for me, I appreciate it
[23:13] <slangasek> kees: so yeah, udev has two *separate* chances to run vgchange, and both are failing
[23:13] <kees> Keybuk: how do we avoid missed events in this case?
[23:13] <rickspencer3> slangasek, hi
[23:13] <kees> slangasek: what's the second?
[23:13] <Keybuk> kees: same way we avoid missed events before udevd is run in the first place
[23:13] <rickspencer3> oops, sorry to interupt
[23:13] <Keybuk> that's what "udevadm trigger" is _for_
[23:13] <slangasek> kees: one in initramfs, one in rootfs
[23:13] <slangasek> rickspencer3: hello
[23:14] <rickspencer3> slangasek, so, low color boot image ...
[23:14] <rickspencer3> I think it's uploaded, but hasn't been reviewed
[23:14] <slangasek> W3ird_N3rd: the debian-installer package probably needs a reupload for the latest kernel ABI change
[23:14] <kees> ah right, trigger re-triggers everything
[23:15] <rickspencer3> could I tell the design team that if they see it tomorrow and something is wrong, they will get a chance to upload again tomorrow?
[23:15] <rickspencer3> basically, being Euro based, I'd like to let them go to bed and fix problems when they are not too tired ;)
[23:15] <slangasek> rickspencer3: it's not uploaded, it's in the plymouth bzr branch; I can't guarantee it'll be uploaded by tomorrow, but will try
[23:15] <W3ird_N3rd> slangasek, there's nothing I can do to fix that, or install anyway? I configured a static IP now, but nothing can be downloaded
[23:15] <rickspencer3> slangasek, ok, can I tell them that all is fine and we will take care of them, don't worry?
[23:15] <W3ird_N3rd> it's now stuck trying to download a release file - I would have given up by now
[23:16] <slangasek> rickspencer3: there are other bugs in the plymouth branch that need addressed before I can upload - but yes, they shouldn't stay up worrying about this
[23:16] <slangasek> W3ird_N3rd: oh, if you can actually configure an IP, I guess it's not a kernel ABI problem at this point - I don't know what that problem is, though
[23:17] <slangasek> W3ird_N3rd: could be anything from a bad ethernet cable to a buggy or missing firmware in the installer
[23:17] <W3ird_N3rd> well when I try to configure using DHCP it says my network maybe doesn't use DHCP, which is not true
[23:18] <W3ird_N3rd> and with the netboot from 1 or 2 days ago I DID succeed with DHCP, so the hardware is OK
[23:19] <W3ird_N3rd> ok I'll see if I can find a totally different ethernet card
[23:22] <W3ird_N3rd> what the hell.. DHCP succeeded with my ancient 3Com 589C and now the installer just..broke?
[23:22] <cjwatson> Keybuk: will translation kittens die if I fix a typo in one of mountall's strings?
[23:22] <cjwatson> -                                                     _("Press C to to cancel all checks currently in progress")));
[23:22] <cjwatson> +                                                     _("Press C to cancel all checks currently in progress")));
[23:22] <Keybuk> heh, they'll hate you
[23:22] <W3ird_N3rd> no, it didn't, it's really loading now
[23:23] <W3ird_N3rd> Xircom modules broken then?
[23:23] <cjwatson> I didn't see any translations in mountall's source; I guess they're just in language packs?
[23:23] <cjwatson> I'd *actually* like to fix the run-on sentence as well but that seems less justifiable :-)
[23:23] <W3ird_N3rd> should I report that?
[23:24] <cjwatson> slangasek: pretty sure I uploaded d-i earlier for the ABI change
[23:24] <slangasek> cjwatson: ok then :)
[23:25] <cjwatson> no idea what's broken for W3ird_N3rd; not aware of having changed anything to do with DHCP
[23:25] <slangasek> cjwatson: translations are in langpacks for mountall, yes
[23:25] <W3ird_N3rd> cjwatson, DHCP ain't broken, it appears to be the xircom driver
[23:26] <cjwatson> ah, well I wouldn't know about that
[23:26] <W3ird_N3rd> I'm now installing using an old 3Com card, but the Xircom Realport and Realport2 are silent in every possible language
[23:27] <cjwatson> right, guess I ought to do a big d-i translations sync
[23:27] <svu> I wonder .. if I am trying to do /etc/init.d/udev start (in manual repare mode, when only root is mounted), I am getting "basename: not found"
[23:27] <slangasek> svu: udev doesn't use the init script in /etc/init.d, that's just a wrapper for the /etc/init/udev.conf upstart job
[23:28] <cjwatson> it would be good if /lib/init/upstart-job didn't use executables in /usr though
[23:28] <kees> svu: instead of running vgchange -a y, try udevadm trigger
[23:28] <cjwatson> given that it's trivial to avoid - INITSCRIPT="${0##*/}"
[23:29] <svu> kees, just "udevadm"? no params?
[23:29] <Keybuk> cjwatson: why?  it's an education wrapper
[23:29] <Keybuk> if anything *calls* it, that's a bug
[23:29] <cjwatson> I didn't say it was critical, I just said it would be good
[23:29] <W3ird_N3rd> after the install is finished I'll burn the mini.iso one more time and try, if it still doesn't work it must be a bug, should I report it in that case? or is there no need for that
[23:29] <slangasek> not maintainer scripts; but you don't run maintainer scripts in rescue mode either
[23:30] <slangasek> (or: it's a bug, but it's not a bug in the maintainer script :)
[23:30] <cjwatson> it would be so easy to avoid depending on /usr there, so it might as well
[23:30] <cjwatson> W3ird_N3rd: I guess if the xircom driver is broken, that should be reported as a kernel bug
[23:30] <W3ird_N3rd> I don't know what kernel the netboot disc uses.
[23:31] <W3ird_N3rd> anyway that part was working 1 or 2 days ago.
[23:31] <cjwatson> the standard kernel
[23:31] <W3ird_N3rd> so must be a bleedingedge kernel
[23:31] <kees> does that still not bring them online?
[23:32] <chrisccoulson> seb128 / slangasek - frames 10 and 11 of the main thread in the abiword backtrace are weird
[23:32] <cjwatson> W3ird_N3rd: it's just rebuilt occasionally against whatever's current in lucid
[23:33] <W3ird_N3rd> lucid kernel is frozen so that makes this case very mysterious
[23:33] <chrisccoulson> the GConfClient passed to gconf_client_get_full is pointing to the wrong address
[23:33] <chrisccoulson> as is the key
[23:33] <chrisccoulson> someone might want to get a valgrind log there
[23:33] <svu> kees, what would be the right parameter to pass to kernel - to get rid of plymouth?
[23:33] <slangasek> chrisccoulson: good point; could easily be a gdb bug instead, but valgrind is a good next step
[23:34] <directhex> i think i know why my syncpackage upload was disappearing
[23:34] <wgrant> seb128: Thanks for the swift upload of that papyon fix.
[23:34] <chrisccoulson> in any case, the client and key parameters in frames 10 and 11 should be identical
[23:34] <seb128> wgrant, thanks for coming with a patch for the issue ;-)
[23:35] <slangasek> ** (abiword:16501): WARNING **: Running under buggy valgrind, see http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=164298
[23:35] <slangasek> heh
[23:35] <slangasek> chrisccoulson: no valgrind errors of note
[23:35] <chrisccoulson> slangasek - ok, i'll have to have another think then
[23:36] <zyga> slangasek: still installing, ps3 is dog slow for I/O
[23:38] <persia> lifeless: Latest time?  We varied for a bit, but seem to have standardised at 10:00 UTC.
[23:38] <persia> lifeless: Mind you, if you're counting in CHADT, that can be quite late indeed.
[23:39] <matumba> Keybuk, i've run the 16-bit plymouth theme and got some initial flicker: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aM2lrrjzGc - other than that it seems to work fine
[23:39] <kees> svu you can't get rid  of plymouth.  if you want to drop splash, just leave off "splash".  I tend to drop "splash" and "quiet"
[23:42] <svu> kees, udevadm trigger worked. activated my VG
[23:43] <svu> so... what does it prove?
[23:43] <kees> svu: that is simultaneously encouraging and disheartening.  :)
[23:43] <svu> :)))
[23:43] <slangasek> svu: is /etc/init/udevtrigger.conf present on your system?
[23:43]  * svu feels proud
[23:43] <kees> it means that the udev rules are correct in that they bring the vg online.  but, they should be since it works everywhere else.
[23:44] <svu> slangasek, yes
[23:45] <slangasek> svu: boot with --verbose, and post your /var/log/boot.log?
[23:45] <svu> kees, yes, that sounds logical. but ... I see what I see :)
[23:45] <svu> slangasek, where should I add --verbose ?
[23:45] <kees> slangasek: where does --verbose go?
[23:45] <kees> heh
[23:45] <lifeless> persia: I'm considering NZ DST time impacts
[23:45] <slangasek> svu: the kernel commandline
[23:45] <kees> network lag ftl
[23:45] <slangasek> which is the awesomest thing ever
[23:45] <lifeless> persia: which would have it at 11pm
[23:45]  * svu never heard of such kernel option
[23:46] <slangasek> it's not a kernel option, it's an upstart option :)
[23:46] <Keybuk> slangasek: most awesomest thing ever?
[23:46] <lifeless> persia: meh, I can do that every 2nd week for 6 months:- care to nominate me ?
[23:46] <persia> lifeless: Right.
[23:46] <slangasek> Keybuk: yes!
[23:46] <Keybuk> slangasek: what is?
[23:46] <persia> lifeless: Sure.  Up for an exchange?
[23:46] <svu> slangasek, I'm afraid there won't be much use - because /var/log is on lvm partition
[23:46] <slangasek> Keybuk: --verbose as a boot option
[23:46] <lifeless> sure
[23:46] <Keybuk> ahh ;)
[23:46] <Keybuk> wait until you see what I have planned in Maverick
[23:47] <Keybuk> svu: that's ok ;)  there are tricks once you've booted
[23:47] <slangasek> svu: that's ok - as long as you don't kill plymouth, once the vg is up the log should get written
[23:47] <ajmitch> lifeless: you're going to be back in NZ?
[23:47] <svu> how would I disable that stupid graphical screen? I want to see the console all the way! nosplash does not help
[23:47] <Keybuk> svu: remove "splash"
[23:47] <Keybuk> where the hell did somebody document "nosplash"
[23:47] <svu> Keybuk, I have "nosplash"
[23:47]  * Keybuk has NEVER heard of that
[23:47] <svu> ok
[23:48] <Keybuk> svu: where did you read to put "nosplash" there?
[23:48] <svu> ok
[23:48] <svu> so, just append="--verbose" ?
[23:48] <Keybuk> yes
[23:48] <Keybuk> well, with root= and all that other useful stuff
[23:48] <svu> sure
[23:49] <slangasek> Keybuk: I have heard of other distros having the inverse default and passing nosplash to disable; so it's probably cross-distro confusion rather than Ubuntu-specific docs
[23:49] <Keybuk> slangasek: other distros can't include Fedora/RedHat - otherwise this would work <g>
[23:49] <slangasek> maybe it was Mandriva?
[23:49] <Keybuk> Heh
[23:49] <lool> kirkland: I had suggested to try similar cache= settings for the qemu-kvm hang bug, but I don't know whether anybody tried; thanks for writing it in the bug
[23:49] <Keybuk> I think they use Plymouth too actually
[23:49] <slangasek> oh, crap
[23:49] <slangasek> first google hit for 'nosplash' is ubuntuforums
[23:50] <ccheney> openjdk takes over 12hr to build on amd64? thats even longer than OOo, heh
[23:50] <Keybuk> first google hit for "beetroot salad" is probably ubuntuforums
[23:50] <Keybuk> ubuntuforums is the first google hit for *anything*
[23:50] <slangasek> the second hit is "no splash, no flush urinals from Kohler"
[23:50] <Keybuk> it's the ultimate source of people being wrong on the internet
[23:50] <lool> lol
[23:50] <kees> ccheney: it's the testsuite timing out, mostly
[23:50] <lool> slangasek: You should turn safe search on
[23:51] <W3ird_N3rd> the selected kernel, kernel package linux-generic, could not be installed
[23:51] <slangasek> lool: oh man, and miss out on cheap urinal humor?
[23:51] <W3ird_N3rd> I consider the netboot ISO untestable
[23:51] <W3ird_N3rd> it's just too damn buggy.
[23:51] <lool> slangasek: No, I meant to hide the ubuntuforums results
[23:51] <slangasek> lool: hah
[23:52] <W3ird_N3rd> I guess this means nobody really uses the netboot ISO
[23:52] <W3ird_N3rd> poor me
[23:52] <slangasek> W3ird_N3rd: wait, you're using the netboot *ISO*?  No, people generally don't use that
[23:52] <W3ird_N3rd> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/lucid/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/mini.iso
[23:52] <W3ird_N3rd> so what do people use?
[23:52] <cjwatson> Keybuk: nosplash was an installer option for about a day
[23:52] <cjwatson> before I saw the light and replaced it with debian-installer/splash=false
[23:52] <cjwatson> hey, I use the netboot ISO sometimes
[23:53] <cjwatson> works fine for me
[23:53] <cjwatson> broken for you != untestable in general
[23:53] <lifeless> ajmitch: yes, end of the month
[23:53] <lifeless> ajmitch: you should look at facebook more often :P
[23:53] <cjwatson> the netboot ISO is just a simple repackaging of the separate netboot kernel and initrd files - it's unlikely to suffer from different bugs
[23:53] <W3ird_N3rd> cjohnston, linux-generic cannot be installed, how can that be my fault
[23:53] <cjwatson> "cjwatson"
[23:53] <W3ird_N3rd> *cjwatson
[23:53] <cjwatson> W3ird_N3rd: that's just a transient archive problem, wait a bit
[23:53] <W3ird_N3rd> autocomplete..
[23:54] <cjwatson> type more characters first then, and read the output.
[23:54] <cjwatson> netboot is very susceptible to the state of the archive
[23:54] <cjwatson> that's not a bug, it's just the way netboot works
[23:54] <W3ird_N3rd> I'm usually in channels with less people and your names have a similar length, so easy to get wrong..
[23:55] <cjwatson> might even be a problem with the mirror you're using being out of date
[23:56] <cjwatson> http://people.canonical.com/~ubuntu-archive/testing/lucid_probs.html says that, while a number of things are uninstallable in lucid right now, linux-generic is installable
[23:56] <W3ird_N3rd> I like netboot because it's only 12MB, less writing time and some CD-RW's have some flaws, but the first 12MB are usually OK. also it gets me the latest packages right away
[23:56] <cjwatson> but I'm happy to look at an installer syslog to check
[23:56] <cjwatson> "save debug logs" from the main menu to extract it
[23:56] <svu> boot.log : http://pastebin.com/0e5rAABM
[23:57] <cjwatson> it gets you the latest bugs right away too ... :-)
[23:57] <cjwatson> netboot gets a lot more stable once we release
[23:57] <ajmitch> lifeless: I should, but it's usually such a waste of time :)
[23:58] <svu> amazing. boot.log is using MSDOS EOL convention. hehe
[23:58] <W3ird_N3rd> cjwatson, nah, damn, found it. failure resolving nl.archive.ubuntu.com. sigh
[23:58] <Keybuk> svu: it's using terminal convention
[23:58] <Keybuk> it's the log of writes to a pty
[23:59] <svu> ok
[23:59] <svu> but I do not see much interesting there
[23:59] <cjwatson> W3ird_N3rd: that would do it, although it's odd it didn't fail before that
[23:59] <Sarvatt> hmm, anyone familiar with why dbg packages in the archive for mesa and xserver are messed up while PPA ones are fine? the CRC's in .gnu_debuglink are wrong with the archive versions