[00:47] <micahg> can I get an FFe ack for bug 562660?
[00:49] <ajmitch> you'll probably need to add more info about why a new version is needed
[00:50]  * micahg didn't realize there was a -e option for requestsync
[00:51] <ajmitch> yeah, it even lets you fill in the reasons for a FFe :)
[00:51]  * ajmitch used it yesterday for that
[00:51]  * micahg knows for next time
[00:52] <micahg> ajmitch: you think what I just posted was sufficient?
[00:54] <ajmitch> it may be enough, being a security issue, but https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreezeExceptionProcess calls for a diff og the changelog, build log, stating that you tested it
[00:54] <ajmitch> hopefully they'll just wave it through as-is :)
[00:55]  * micahg could do that...
[00:55] <ajmitch> you'll need to subscribe ~ubuntu-release
[03:09] <psusi> jdong, ping
[03:39] <ScottK> micahg: FFe approved.
[03:39] <micahg> ScottK: thanks
[03:48] <zooko> Anybody want to reproduce a performance issue on Ubuntu for me? We have this detailed, repeated report from one Ubuntu user of superlinear runtimes for larger mutable files, but I can't reproduce it on my Mac laptop.
[03:48] <zooko> My Ubuntu workstation died the other day. :-(
[03:49] <zooko> Well if you are interested, it is http://tahoe-lafs.org/trac/tahoe-lafs/ticket/983
[04:11] <micahg> ScottK: can you help me with something?  libnetx-java seems to be missing, but it shows up in LP
[04:12] <micahg> ah, that was on the list of binaries to remove
[04:12] <micahg> ScottK: unping
[04:19] <zooko> http://tahoe-lafs.org/trac/tahoe-lafs/ticket/983#comment:15
[04:19] <zooko> ^-- exact, complete instructions on how to reproduce this alleged performance issue
[04:19] <zooko> Does not require non-command-line interaction with your computer!
[04:19] <zooko> And as an added bonus you get to see that Tahoe-LAFS that everyone's been talking about.
[04:22] <zooko> And I'm about to keel over from some sort of sickness, so join #tahoe-lafs if you have any questions. Thanks folks!
[04:26] <RoAkSoAx> ScottK, could you take a look to: bug #562709, bug #562710, bug #562711, and bug #562712
[04:32] <StevenK> ne
[04:43] <ScottK> RoAkSoAx: We don't sync from PPAs.
[04:44] <ScottK> RoAkSoAx: What does Ivoks say?
[04:48] <RoAkSoAx> ScottK, he told me to go ahead with the new packages
[04:49] <RoAkSoAx> ScottK, ok I'll change the bug from Ubuntu-HA PPA to debian unstable, cause, that's where they got actually synced at first, though I applied some changes that have not reached the debian packages yet
[04:49] <ScottK> RoAkSoAx: Are they new or updates?
[04:49] <RoAkSoAx> ScottK, new upstream checkouts
[04:49] <ScottK> OK.
[04:49] <ScottK> I'll try and look a little later.
[04:51] <RoAkSoAx> ScottK, awesome. thanks
[05:05] <micahg> could I please get a sponsor ack on bug 562745
[05:14] <zooko> Hm, I wonder if it could be a bug in Python 2.6. Seems unlikely.
[05:14] <zooko> But I'm using py 2.5 on Mac OS X and can't reproduce it.
[05:26] <RoAkSoAx> ScottK, ok just changed the title/descriptions of the bug reports :)
[05:26] <ScottK> OK.
[05:26] <ScottK> zooko: Can't you use 2.6 on your Mac?
[05:27] <zooko> Yes, but not tonight. :-) I would have to install it, and this could disturb other parts of my system.
[05:28]  * RoAkSoAx off to sleep. Good nite
[05:33]  * zooko also goes to sleep.
[05:33] <zooko> Good night!
[07:01] <micahg> siretart: do you have time to sponsor the vlc fix?
[07:23] <dholbach> good morning
[08:01] <Ciemon> Morning all, just looking for some patching practice, does https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/548513 just need patching, there's one there to use?
[08:06] <RAOF> Ciemon: The kernel isn't a particularly good place to look for patching practice - it's got quite a different patch policy.  And it'll take you in excess of 4 hours and 20GiB of disc to actually build a kernel package, too.
[08:07] <Ciemon> Thanks :) Moving on....
[08:14] <joaopinto> good morning
[08:33] <ara> james_w, around?
[08:56] <james_w> hi ara
[09:16] <ara> hey james_w, lp:ubuntu-qa-tools is now ready to be built and upload to lucid
[09:18] <james_w> ok, I'll get to it shortly
[09:19] <ara> james_w, thanks!
[10:14] <sebp> hi, I get the following error when I try to upload a package to my ppa with dput: Not a .changes file. Please select a .changes file to upload. Tried to upload: build
[10:14] <sebp> I provided the .changes file, though
[10:14] <sebp> any idea?
[10:14] <james_w> sebp: what command did you run?
[10:14] <sebp> james_w, dput gdd-ppa build gnome-dvb-daemon_0.1.17-0~ppa1~lucid1_source.changes
[10:15] <james_w> what's 'build'?
[10:15] <sebp> no idea, that's the error message I get
[10:15] <james_w> well, why did you put 'build' there?
[10:16] <sebp> ops, stupid mistake
[10:16] <sebp> thanks a lot for pointing out the obvious :)
[10:33] <siretart> micno, I'm at a conference right now
[10:33] <persia> micahg ^^
[11:02] <DmitryKurochkin> Hi all! I would like to update polygraph package for lucid with a new upstream release. It is a bugfix only release with no new features. How can I do that? Should I file a bug, attach a debdiff and look for a sponsor?
[11:09] <persia> DmitryKurochkin: If you're sure it's bugfix-only, that seems the right path to me.
[11:11] <DmitryKurochkin> persia: thanks
[11:13] <DmitryKurochkin> Another question, why needs-packaging bug is non automatically closed with package initial upload? Here is the bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/415395 and here is a changelog of accepted package https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/polygraph/+changelog.
[11:14] <persia> DmitryKurochkin: Because the bug isn't against the package, but against Ubuntu, and so launchpad-closes-bugs can7t find it.
[11:14] <persia> It's an unfortunate limitation, but I'm not sure anyone has dug deep enough to figure out what would be required to fix it.
[11:15] <DmitryKurochkin> how should I(?) close the bug correctly? Just change status to "fix released"?
[11:19] <persia> DmitryKurochkin: Yeah, if it's been packaged and in the archives, set to Fix Released.
[11:26] <DmitryKurochkin> closed it. Thanks again, persia!
[11:28] <persia> DmitryKurochkin: Thanks for helping keep polygraph in Ubuntu in good shape
[11:57] <c_korn> Rhonda: ping
[11:58] <Rhonda> c_korn: http://packages.debian.org/wesnoth-1.8
[11:58] <c_korn> Rhonda: you read my mind. thanks :)
[11:58] <Rhonda> No, I read backlog. I still wonder why you want to put it on getdeb at all, though.
[11:59] <Rhonda> … or at least the part of backlog that contains hilights for me. :)
[11:59] <joaopinto> he doesn't want it now :P
[11:59] <joaopinto> oh it does
[11:59] <joaopinto> :P
[11:59] <joaopinto> erm, he
[12:00] <c_korn> joaopinto: good morning :)
[12:00] <Rhonda> c_korn: If you put it on getdeb, pretty please make sure that you track changes I do later to the package. I don't want to yet again receive bugreports about outdated sources that just got the upstream source updated but not the packaging work.
[12:01] <joaopinto> Rhonda, lucid is providing 1.6.5
[12:01] <Rhonda> … or produce installation conflicts with the official packages.
[12:01] <Rhonda> joaopinto: Yes, and maverick will provide 1.8 and lucid will receive a backport when maverick is open.
[12:02] <Rhonda> joaopinto: 1.8 was just released two weeks ago, just for the record.
[12:02] <c_korn> Rhonda: hm, we update the maintainer field and remove launchpad integration patches so bugs won't be filed against the official version.
[12:02] <joaopinto> Rhonda, regular wesnoth user's can afford that delay, answering your question "why you want to put it on getdeb"
[12:02] <joaopinto> Rhonda, right, which means we re two weeks late already :P
[12:02] <Rhonda> joaopinto: Exactly. They _can_ afford that delay. :)
[12:02] <ScottK> Rhonda: Is there a reason not to update Lucid?
[12:03] <joaopinto> ops, can't :P
[12:03] <ScottK> Generally for games I'm pretty free with FFe.
[12:03] <Rhonda> c_korn: Doesn't help with people complaining on IRC or on the wesnoth forum. I'm not talking about people using reportbug or tools. :)
[12:03] <Rhonda> ScottK: It's a completely new source package, it's not an update per se.
[12:04] <Rhonda> But it would be swift if 1.8 could get shipped in lucid, too.
[12:04] <ScottK> Rhonda: If it's in Debian proper, I'm open to a sync.
[12:04] <joaopinto> and 1.8 is actually broken on Lucid, unless there is a patch on debian that helps :)
[12:04] <ScottK> Rhonda: Are any new build-dep/depends needed?
[12:04] <Rhonda> joaopinto: I highly differ there, to be honest. 1.6 multiplayer server support isn't going to get dropped before the next stable release after 1.8 is done. That is not 1.8.1 but 1.10 or such. :)
[12:05] <Rhonda> ScottK: Yes, there are some new build-deps, and the packaging was _totally_ reworked in the sense that it's not possible to even ship 1.6 (the wesnoth package that's in the pool right now) and 1.8 - and people can even install them side-by-side. :)
[12:05] <joaopinto> Rhonda, we have different views, we rely on upstream for release/qa management
[12:06] <Rhonda> joaopinto: And that upstream would be me, too. So I would have to rely on … me.  :P
[12:06] <joaopinto> Rhonda, I mean still upper, the authors :P
[12:06] <Rhonda> joaopinto: In what way is 1.8 actually broken on lucid? What do you refer to?
[12:06] <Rhonda> joaopinto: … which also involves me. :P
[12:06] <ScottK> Rhonda: If you could look at if any other packages would need updating, then I think it might be good to get it in depending on how much other impact there is.
[12:06] <joaopinto> Rhonda, mouse clicks don't works, might be sdl related
[12:07] <persia> That's the SDL bug, for which there is a proposed fix.
[12:07] <joaopinto> Rhonda, I read *stable* on wesnoth page :P
[12:07] <joaopinto> brb
[12:07] <persia> wgrant: Did you ever look at that more?  Should I just upload it?
[12:07] <Rhonda> ScottK: I don't think any other package would need updating. It's just lua from what I remember and that should be in lucid proper already.
[12:07] <joaopinto> persia, oh, so its affecting more games ?
[12:08] <ScottK> Rhonda: In that case, I think an FFe and getting it in is reasonable.  If you'll file it, I'll approve it.
[12:08] <persia> joaopinto: Dunno: it mostly gets reported about wesnoth.
[12:08] <Rhonda> joaopinto: That's not 1.8 related, the same issue also is affecting the 1.6 part - and it's not wesnoth related, and also there is a patch for SDL available that persia somehow wants me to make the official decision statement for inclusion or such. ;)
[12:08] <joaopinto> Rhonda, I don't know if it's 1.8 related, I just know it does not work
[12:09] <Rhonda> ScottK: Sweet - I wouldn't have dared because with last release an update got turned down because I had some packaging rework in it and it got rejected because of that. Great!
[12:09] <persia> I just want someone else to say "It's good" or be told "just do it".  Doing it because it seems like a good idea based on IRC backscroll strikes me as insufficiently carefull.
[12:09] <joaopinto> argh, we are likely to have a broken SDL *again* ?
[12:09] <Rhonda> joaopinto: ctrl-f for fullscreen, it works in there. The bug is "only" affecting windowed mode. And right-click and _then_ left-click is another workaround that works.
[12:09] <persia> joaopinto: If you have time to test the patch in lucid against a variety of SDL apps, and want to confirm it ought be applied, it would be something that would make me apply it :)
[12:10] <Rhonda> persia: I guess i can be your scapegoat, I really think that the drag'n'drop fix that triggered this issue is minor compared to this clicking issue.
[12:11] <ScottK> Rhonda: I think different people on the release team may have differnt views.  My view on games is that the latest crack is almost always desirable.  Particularly in this case where the old version is still available.
[12:11] <Rhonda> ScottK: Actually, it wouldn't be a FFe from what I understand, it would have to be an import freeze exception.
[12:11] <persia> I agree in principle.  I'm just wary about uploading something I only half-understand when nobody else says "Yeah, that's good" :)
[12:11] <ScottK> Rhonda: FFe can cover that too
[12:11] <Rhonda> Ah, alright.
[12:12] <ScottK> Rhonda: I'm also and archive admin, so I can cover those parts too.
[12:12]  * persia will dig up the patch, verify against lucid wesnoth1.6 and upload shortly after finding a mouse
[12:14] <Rhonda> ScottK: I'll postpone my approach to add alternative-handling into the wesnoth-1.8 package then. This is something that I can't test in time properly.
[12:14] <ScottK> OK.  Thanks.
[12:16] <wgrant> persia: I didn't, beyond confirming that the patch fixes it.
[12:16] <wgrant> Uni has me reasonably busy at the moment.
[12:16] <persia> Yeah, that's all I've done with it, and confirming that it doesn't break KVM.
[12:16] <wgrant> IMO, upload away.
[12:17]  * persia needs to find a mouse first
[12:17]  * persia hunts more
[12:17] <c_korn> Rhonda: if their bug is related to our package just point them to #getdeb or http://www.playdeb.net/contact/
[12:18] <Rhonda> c_korn: That would be something needed to remember. %-)
[12:32] <joaopinto> persia, I can test the sdl patch on wesnoth, I didn't found the problem on other games yet, I probably tested about 10 sdl games lately
[12:33] <persia> joaopinto: We know the sdl patch fixes wesnoth.  If you've not found it anywhere else, that's good news.
[12:33] <persia> joaopinto: But after I upload, getting feedback fom SDL users is important: please let me know if you hear of any issues.
[12:33] <joaopinto> ah ok
[12:34] <joaopinto> persia, do you know if the PA related problems are also fixed ? I mean those from jaunty
[12:34] <persia> joaopinto: Which class of PA issues?
[12:35] <joaopinto> hangs with 100% cpu
[12:35] <joaopinto> that one affected several games
[12:35] <persia> I never encountered that one.  Was it hardware-specific or client-specific?
[12:35] <joaopinto> I didn't experienced yet, but this one was random
[12:35] <joaopinto> not sure, let me try to find the master bug
[12:36] <persia> That sounds hardware-specific then.  I know there have been *huge* efforts to fix all the ALSA bugs that made pulse go insane in 9.10 and even more in 10.04.
[12:36] <joaopinto> bug 454879
[12:38] <joaopinto> I am sure it affected more apps/people, less techie would not figure it out that it was SDL/PA causing the system freeze
[12:38] <persia> If it was irreproducible, I strongly suspect SDL/PA/ALSA, but yeah.
[12:41] <arand> Hmm, that's one that's been bothering me... Very random that one, generally happens more frequently after the system has been in use for some time, can be avoided for a while if respawning PA...
[12:46] <joaopinto> arand, are you still getting it with lucid ?
[12:46] <arand> joaopinto: Have not tested enough to tell...
[12:47] <arand> I'll put that on a todo list.
[13:04] <joaopinto> we should have some system for end users to report their feedback on applications usage during development
[13:05] <joaopinto> right now there is no way to assess package testing in general
[13:11] <persia> joaopinto: What sort of interface do you imagine beyond Malone?
[13:13] <joaopinto> persia, a simple wizard that would show me a random list of packages that I have installed (if we could identify the most used even better), asked some simple rating about the package stability an dupload thata data somewhere
[13:14] <joaopinto> something that could be used for people not directly involved in bug reporting/fixing, those already cover their used packages
[13:14] <persia> We can identify the most-used, with popcon.
[13:15] <persia> That does sound like a good idea.  Just needs some implementation.  I'd recommend looking at the popcon source and coordinating with cr3 who somehow got checkbox to be able to report to LP in a useful way.
[13:18] <joaopinto> I guess that bug counts are so high these days that they are no longer an important QA metric
[13:18] <joaopinto> and they don't provide "positive" data
[13:18] <persia> The overall volume doesn't matter, really.
[13:19] <persia> The issue is that we can't usefully distinguish between a good package with lots and lots of users and a poor package with very few users based on bug counts.
[13:20] <persia> Doing someting like bugcount/popcon might generate some idea of which packages are buggiest, but that then isn't a good metric to use to figure out what needs fixing.
[13:20] <nenolod> how does one get a package removed from ubuntu?
[13:20] <persia> We end up mostly fixing bugs in packages with lots of users and lots of bugs, which is useful, but not necessarily optimal.
[13:20] <joaopinto> with a rating system we could identify per user "satisfaction"
[13:20] <persia> nenolod: File a bug against the package requesting removal.  subscribe the archive admins if you can upload that package, otherwise subscribe ubuntu-sponsors
[13:20] <nenolod> cool.
[13:20] <persia> joaopinto: Right.
[13:20] <nenolod> i would like to remove audacious from ubuntu.
[13:21] <persia> nenolod: Why?
[13:21] <nenolod> it's lack of proper maintenance in ubuntu and the general attitude of the people who try to maintain it are offensive to us.
[13:22] <persia> Surely that can be fixed in other ways, no?
[13:22] <persia> Generally we only remove packages when they are superceded or hopelessly buggy, unmaintainable, and dead upstream.
[13:23] <persia> I seem to recall you used to maintain it in Ubuntu fairly well: what changed?  Can that be fixed?
[13:24] <nenolod> the reason why i attempted to fix the package was because we were getting an influx of ubuntu users bothering us (upstream) about the package
[13:25] <persia> Hrm.  We appreciate you helping out of course, but we ought be a better buffer.
[13:25] <persia> I know lots of folk use audacious in Ubuntu, so I'm not tempted to see it gone.
[13:26] <persia> How do you think users could be provided with a good audacious, and not end up pestering you all the time?
[13:26] <nenolod> by ensuring bdrung does not touch it any further.  we cannot work with him, he is far too abrasive.
[13:27] <nenolod> his latest plan is to edit the artwork in the package because he does not like it.
[13:27] <nenolod> if that occurs, we will be forced to place the artwork under non-free license in future versions.
[13:28] <persia> bdrung: Um, why would we distro-patch artwork?
[13:28] <ScottK> bdrung: If that's accurate, that's not appropriate.
[13:29] <persia> nenolod: We specifically don't have maintainers in Ubuntu, so it's hard to say "This person should not touch package X".  That said, you'll get support if you need to avoid inappropriate changes.
[13:29] <nenolod> thanks.
[13:30] <persia> nenolod: So, setting aside the personal issue (and I suspect there's history, but don't think we need to rehash now), are there pending changes that you think need to be in Ubuntu to make sure the audacious experience for lucid matches what you'd like to see in a distribution?
[13:30] <nenolod> persia, i understand that, but patching the audacious logo to fit better into a dark background is not really a desired or appropriate change
[13:31] <persia> Agreed, especially since my memory is that audacious has fairly broad theme support, and can be rethemed with ease if there is a need/desire to change the theme on a per-distro or per-flavour basis.
[13:32] <nenolod> oh, this is the icon for the status icon plugin.
[13:33] <persia> nenolod: Is that not themable?
[13:34] <nenolod> persia, 2.3 is fine as it presently stands.  the icon being distro-patched is not something we find desirable
[13:34] <nenolod> persia, no, it is not presently themable.
[13:34] <persia> Does it look terrible with the lucid default themes?
[13:35] <kklimonda> it does look bad with the radiance theme
[13:35] <kklimonda> ambiance*
[13:35] <persia> Ugh.  That's annoying then.
[13:35] <persia> nenolod: Can it be made themeable?
[13:35] <wgrant> Most notification area and indicator icons should be monochromised.
[13:35] <wgrant> (ideally in the theme, though)
[13:35] <bdrung> persia: i just asked this question: is it intended to have a small white border around the black circle of the audacity logo: http://de.tinypic.com/view.php?pic=6sujo2&s=5 ?
[13:36] <persia> kklimonda: Do you happen to have a handy screenshot?
[13:36] <nenolod> as i said, if the icon is modified, it becomes non-free in 2.4
[13:37]  * nenolod isn't playing this game
[13:37] <kklimonda> persia: sure, give me a sec
[13:38] <segler> hi, i am searching for help. i need a motu to upload my feature freeze exeption accepted package to universe, please. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rhythmbox-radio-browser/+bug/544416
[13:38] <persia> nenolod: As I said before, it's inappropriate to modify your artwork.  I won't support that.
[13:38] <persia> nenolod: That said, if there's a way to add theme support, I'd like to enable that, if it otherwise looks bad (but let's wait for kklimonda's screenshot).
[13:39] <persia> nenolod: So, I don't encourage you to make the artwork non-free: it's not going to make any useful difference to my opinion (because I don't want to modify your artwork), but it does make it hard to distribute.
[13:39] <joaopinto> nenolod, I am not an ubuntu developer but I am an open source developer and let me tell you, regardless of the reasonably of bgrunts changes, you threat is not respectful with the free sofware spirit
[13:39] <azeem> nenolod: wow, you'll get the mako Hill Schily award for "excellence in being upstream" then
[13:39] <kklimonda> http://syntaxhighlighted.com/~kklimonda/audacious/
[13:39] <kklimonda> persia: ^
[13:39] <bdrung> the questionable file is: pixmaps/audacious2.png
[13:39] <persia> nenolod: That said, if there's some reason it cannot be made themeable, or there's a good reason not to make it themeable, I can support that.
[13:39] <persia> kklimonda: Thanks.
[13:39] <Laney> Ciemon: I'm going to upload your branch now, good work!
[13:40] <persia> kklimonda: That looks a lot like bdrung's icon to me.  Is that the modified one, or the upstream one?
[13:41] <bdrung> persia: grab the source -> pixmaps/audacious2.png
[13:41] <nenolod> that is the upstream one
[13:41] <bdrung> persia: i did not modify anything
[13:41] <nenolod> patches are accepted to make the icon themeable
[13:42] <persia> nenolod: Cool.  In that case, if it ends up being consensus that the icon doesn't work with the Ubuntu theme, we'll send you a patch for that.  We will not modify your artwork.
[13:42] <nenolod> joaopinto, i'm sorry but i'm not involved in this "free software" movement, because it produces things like http://www.boycottnovell.com/
[13:42] <nenolod> joaopinto, therefore i could care less if GPL zealots are butthurt
[13:42] <azeem> nenolod: please refrain from personal attacks in here
[13:43] <azeem> you#re supposed to follow the Code of Conduct
[13:43] <joaopinto> nenolod, open source software freedom is not about license restrictions or enforcement, you clearly fail to acknowledge that
[13:45] <persia> Let's not make this a discussion about philosophy.
[13:45] <persia> We have a package that needs attention.  Let's focus on that.
[13:45] <nenolod> i fully agree that the audacious icon does not fit those themes and should be modified, however
[13:46] <nenolod> it should be modified in a way that does not distro-patch the package
[13:46] <azeem> that's not your call
[13:46] <kklimonda> ugh..
[13:46] <Rhonda> Why doesn't the black circle just fade into alpha channel but fade into white?
[13:47] <persia> nenolod: That may be tricky.  That said, if we end up with a patch, we'll definitely send it to you for comment/consideration, and appreciate any guidance on improving it (and will hope to see you adopt it).
[13:47] <nenolod> Rhonda, ask whoever made the thing
[13:47] <persia> I see an alpha channel.  What am I missing?
[13:47]  * persia is looking at pixmaps/audacious2.png from the source.
[13:48] <azeem> maybe the code is setting a background before rendering it?
[13:48] <Rhonda> nenolod: But you seem to defend that this icon is appropriate - or I'm not really getting what you are offended with when someone else makes that happen.
[13:49] <Rhonda> nenolod: … actually noone _did_ the change, there was just a question _wether_ the change was acceptable - which actually wouldn't even be needed. bdrung just asked, he didn't make any change?
[13:49] <nenolod> Rhonda, what i am against is distributions pointlessly modifying audacious because then *I* have to deal with the brunt of audacious users in ubuntu who ask me about your patches.
[13:49] <Rhonda> nenolod: I wonder why you consider it pointlessly when you don't even know why it's that way? That sounds strange to me …
[13:49] <nenolod> Rhonda, ubuntu has applied plenty of patches to audacious in the past which have broken core parts of the application
[13:49] <persia> nenolod: Understood.  We have no desire to pointlessly modify it.  We would like to work with you to ensure the audacious experience in Ubuntu is ideal.
[13:50] <Rhonda> nenolod: Please don't distract - this seems to be a completely different and hopefully seperate issue.
[13:50] <nenolod> nobody contacted us when bryce harrington applied 6 patches (which were already fixed in newer versions)
[13:50] <joaopinto> I think it should be clear that patches are accepted based on technical merit while respecting legal rights and not on copyright threatening
[13:51] <persia> nenolod: All of bryce's patches were already fixed upstream?  He ended up uploading those because he had submitted them 18 months ago, and nobody appeared to have reviewed them.
[13:52] <nenolod> persia, we don't make point releases, and all of those subsystems were antequated vestiges of XMMS
[13:52] <nenolod> therefore, they were fixed correctly, with a complete rewrite
[13:52] <persia> nenolod: So, how can we better ensure patch sharing?  We don't tend to have anyone specifically as a contact for a package, which makes this tricky.
[13:52] <Rhonda> nenolod: Actually, I fully understand where you are coming from. I package wesnoth for Debian (and thus Ubuntu) and got several users reporting issues by the packages in getdeb/playdeb and itwesnoth, which have very little to do with my work. I totally can understand that you don't like that. Though, patching an icon to work in every colored environment instead of only white doesn't play into that area, at all. At least IMHO. :)
[13:52] <nenolod> Rhonda, i f'ing hate getdeb
[13:53] <nenolod> Rhonda, i actually wrote a plugin for JIRA to automatically close bugs with the word GetDeb in them as invalid
[13:53] <Rhonda> Actually I'm neither aroused by the quality they spread around. But we are again losing focus. :)
[13:53] <joaopinto> Rhonda, there was no need to get getdeb into a different trouble :P
[13:54] <nenolod> getdeb was already in trouble for years
[13:54] <Rhonda> joaopinto: I know, they can do that on themself pretty well. ;)
[13:55] <persia> Anyway, let's not get distracted.
[13:55] <Rhonda> The point that I wanted to raise - even if you disagree with others doesn't mean that one should behave disrespectful to them.
[13:55] <persia> We want audactious to be a good experience for Ubuntu users.
[13:56] <joaopinto> nenolod, To be honest after seeing you threatening other people which trying to improve your own work I don't find your opinion respectful enough to debate it :)
[13:56] <nenolod> and actually bdrung has done a lot to improve that.
[13:56] <Rhonda> joaopinto: Actually, it isn't even nenolod's work. "ask whoever made the thing"
[13:57] <persia> So it looks like we have 2.3.0 upstream and 2.3-1ubuntu1 in lucid.
[13:57] <persia> and we have an issue with an icon.
[13:57] <nenolod> joaopinto, i have not threatened anyone.  i have simply said that i will separate the audacious artwork and release it under a creative commons license.  really, the artwork needs to be separated anyway.
[13:57] <joaopinto> Rhonda, work as in the product, as far I understood the goal is  to make audacious more appealing to users
[13:57] <persia> And the issue with the icon appears to be that it has a white background, rather than an alpha channel background.
[13:57] <azeem> nenolod: you said non-free
[13:57] <persia> Does that match everyone's understanding?
[13:57] <nenolod> azeem, yes.
[13:57] <azeem> not creative commons
[13:57] <nenolod> azeem, there are non-free CC licenses.
[13:58] <azeem> if that helps getting audacious removed from Debian, I'm all for it
[13:58] <Rhonda> azeem: Not all CC is free.
[13:58] <azeem> I know
[13:58] <nenolod> azeem, if you want audacious removed from Debian, file the request for removal
[13:58] <azeem> I don't care that muhc
[13:58] <azeem> much*
[13:58] <persia> Let's not go for removal.
[13:59] <persia> We can sort this in better ways.
[13:59] <nenolod> note that audacious in Debian isn't the problem
[13:59] <azeem> nenolod: I was talking the other way round
[13:59] <persia> nenolod: bdrung: kklimonda: Rhonda: Do you all agree that the issue is that the icon should use alpha-channels?  Do you think the best way to do this is to submit a change upstream, or to implement theme support?
[13:59] <azeem> if an upstream threatens to take stuff non-free, maybe it's not in Debian's best interest to ship it
[13:59] <azeem> but I'm getting off-topic
[14:00] <persia> azeem: Indeed.
[14:00] <nenolod> ah yes, ubuntu is flexing it's control of debian again
[14:00] <nenolod> nice
[14:00] <persia> nenolod: No, there is no control.  Several folks happen to be involved in both Debian and Ubuntu, that's all.
[14:01] <kklimonda> persia: I see that status icon already uses a icon from theme and only falls back if it can't find it. I wonder if we couldn't just distribute "our" icon in the ubuntu-mono package.
[14:01] <Rhonda> persia: I always agree with submitting patches upstream instead of keeping them just in a distribution. And if I'm not mistaken, that's even part of the CoC. ;)
[14:01] <nenolod> kklimonda, that does sound like a good solution.
[14:01] <persia> Rhonda: It is: the question is whether to work with nenolod on an icon change or on theme support.
[14:01] <nenolod> persia, theme support is actually there
[14:02] <persia> nenolod: Sorry, I thought it wasn't from what you said before.  If there's theme support, then just adding the icon to the ubuntu-mono theme is definitely the solution.
[14:02] <Rhonda> persia: That icon isn't part of a theme, to the best of my knowledge.
[14:02] <persia> kklimonda: Would you mind running with that?
[14:02] <persia> Rhonda: Yes, but that's easy to change :)
[14:03] <nenolod> actually, the status icon uses an XPM file
[14:03] <nenolod> not the png file
[14:03] <joaopinto> Rhonda, afaik we getdeb had worked to resolve those packaging issues with you, please let me know the bug numbers which have not been properly addressed
[14:03] <nenolod> ah
[14:03] <nenolod> joaopinto, you're with getdeb!
[14:03] <Rhonda> nenolod: It has nothing to do with Ubuntu when azeem says that if audacious turns to use non-free license for the artwork then Debian won't be able to ship the package (in main). That's just pointing out the results that your move would make, nothing more, nothing less.
[14:04] <nenolod> joaopinto, please stop publishing audacious packages, they are really a nightmare upstream
[14:04] <bdrung> persia: yes, i think that it's an issue with the alpha channel.
[14:04] <nenolod> bdrung, it's an XPM issue.
[14:04] <nenolod> bdrung, XPMs do not have alpha channels.
[14:04] <persia> Look.  We're not going to remove the package.  We have a strategy.  Let's not focus on what might have happened if we couldn't get along.
[14:04] <Rhonda> nenolod: Oh, hmm. And XPM only have one alpha channel, not a scaled one. Now I see the actual issue.
[14:04] <nenolod> exactly
[14:04] <persia> Hrm.  This makes it trickier.
[14:04] <nenolod> persia, i was referring to getdeb
[14:04] <joaopinto> nenolod, they are ? we never got a complain, neither from developers or users
[14:05] <nenolod> joaopinto, i'm a developer.  i'm complaining.
[14:05] <Rhonda> nenolod: Would it be acceptable to you if the icon would be switched to png instead? :)
[14:05] <nenolod> Rhonda, yes, that's fine.
[14:05] <nenolod> Rhonda, it should anyway.
[14:05] <joaopinto> nenolod, right, and you found the problem today...
[14:06] <nenolod> joaopinto, no, we've been aware of getdeb for several years
[14:06] <Rhonda> joaopinto: I'm happy to hear that - one thing was that you shipped all the campaigns in a single package and didn't add conflicts. Not sure if that is still the case these days. And I hope c_korn will try to follow my git repository for the packaging. :)
[14:06] <joaopinto> nenolod, still you didn't had the time to report any of those problems, so they were not serious enough
[14:06] <nenolod> joaopinto, we just haven't bothered to contact you, because we figured it would be a waste of our time.
[14:06] <bdrung> i think the png file i affected, too
[14:06] <nenolod> modify it then
[14:06] <nenolod> but regardless
[14:07] <nenolod> the icon should be monochromized
[14:07] <persia> bdrung: The one in pixmaps/audacious2.png appears to have alpha channels in my image viewer.  Are you sure?
[14:07] <joaopinto> Rhonda, that had a tecnhical reason, we were not using a repository at that time
[14:07] <bdrung> persia: the icon in the menu is affected
[14:07] <bdrung> let me check what we install
[14:07] <persia> But that's the XPM.
[14:08] <nenolod> no, the menu icon should be the .png ... oh right
[14:08] <nenolod> *grr*
[14:08] <nenolod> the debian package makes XPMs
[14:08] <nenolod> for whatever reason i do not know
[14:08] <bdrung> k, then i have to fix this
[14:08] <lfaraone> In squeak, /usr/bin/squeakvm has been moved to /usr/lib/squeak/3.11.3-2147/squeakvm. The "etoys" package expects it to use the bin one. There is however a helper script in /usr/bin/squeak that accepts less options than squeakvm. Should I use the helper script in etoys, or how should I deal with the potentially changing path of the squeakvm application?
[14:08] <azeem> because the Debian menu only takes/took spms
[14:09] <azeem> xpms*
[14:09] <joaopinto> nenolod, that is sad to know, you assume people don't care about problems :P
[14:09] <persia> Can we change how audacious loads, so that it prefers .png to .xpm?
[14:09] <bdrung> azeem: we could create a audacious32.xpm that do not interfere with the .png file
[14:10] <kklimonda> persia: it falls back to xpm only if it can't find audacious icon in the current theme
[14:10] <persia> lfaraone: I think the safest path forward would be to have the helper script in squeakvm accept more options and pass them to the real binary.
[14:10] <nenolod> azeem, oh right
[14:10] <Rhonda> nenolod: The Debian menu system requires xpm files. If there is a desktop entry though, that one can freely use the png file.
[14:10] <persia> Lets do that then: not create an .xpm that gets picked up, and use the .png, which *should* get us alpha blending without needing a theme.
[14:11] <persia> Rhonda: But if the two have the same name, and one autopicks, ...
[14:11] <nenolod> the audacious_player.xpm is hardcoded into the statusicon plugin actually
[14:11] <Rhonda> persia: Yes, but gnome should do the proper thing here.
[14:11] <bdrung> nenolod: audacious detects only SSE on compile time and not on runtime, right?
[14:11] <nenolod> that's an old XMMS vestige
[14:11] <lfaraone> persia: okay, so I'll add a "-- [parameters to squeakvm]" to the spec?
[14:11] <nenolod> bdrung, yes.
[14:11] <nenolod> bdrung, so it should be disabled on i386.  all amd64 chips have it.
[14:12] <bdrung> yes, that was my plan
[14:12] <persia> lfaraone: That seems safest to be, and most likely to offer general support for 3rd party squakvm users.
[14:12] <Rhonda> persia: The desktop entry should be without extension, and gnome picks up the png first. At least everywhere I looked myself.
[14:12] <bdrung> nenolod: are there plans to detect it on runtime?
[14:12] <nenolod> bdrung, no.
[14:12] <bdrung> k
[14:13] <persia> Rhonda: Last time I looked, openbox preferred xpms, but yeah, pngs are preferred most places.
[14:13] <Rhonda> persia: And the xpm file is still required to not break the Debian menu. Please remember the pgadmin3 issue, I think you were involved in my rant back then. ;)
[14:14] <persia> Rhonda: I agree the package should have an .xpm (go look at the set of bugs I filed in the BTS, and notice that > 50% of them included adding a .xpm file to the package), but there's no reason it needs to have precisely the same barename as the .png is that is shown to cause some runtime issue (as seen in this case).
[14:17] <Rhonda> persia: It doesn't hurt neither.
[14:17] <Rhonda> /usr/share/pixmaps/pgadmin3.svg
[14:17] <Rhonda> /usr/share/pixmaps/pgadmin3.xpm
[14:17] <Rhonda> :)
[14:18] <kklimonda> persia: in case of the audacious it doesn't load xpm because it finds it in the theme - it loads xpm because it can't find "audacious" icon in the theme and falls back to /usr/share/audacious/icons/audacious_player.xpm
[14:19] <kklimonda> ugh - it loads xpm not because it finds it in the theme*
[14:19] <persia> Rhonda: for pgadmin3 (and very many packages) it doesn't hurt.  For audacious, I think it does, because of the xpm/alpha channel thing.  Very specific case.
[14:19] <bdrung> we provide only audacious2.png files (note the 2 in there)
[14:19] <kklimonda> the icon is called audacious2 and it's used for a desktop file
[14:19] <nenolod> joaopinto, http://archive.getdeb.net/getdeb/ubuntu/pool/apps/a/audacious/audacious_2.2-1~getdeb3.dsc
[14:20] <nenolod> joaopinto, it's missing.
[14:20] <kklimonda> so we can't really change it to the monochrome icon as we'll change the application icon itself. we'll have to do the same we have done with other applications - create a patch that first tries to load "audacious2-panel"
[14:21] <persia> It seems the audacious2.png used in the .desktop file is created by debian/rules.
[14:21] <persia> nenolod: What's your thought on a patch that first tries to load audacious2-panel and then audacious2 ?
[14:22] <nenolod> patch for what, specifically?
[14:22] <nenolod> oh i see
[14:22] <nenolod> that sounds fine.
[14:22] <persia> Let's do that then: probably less invasive.
[14:22] <persia> nenolod: Do you want that patch in JIRA, or should it be distro-specific?
[14:22] <Rhonda> persia: If the xpm would be preferred to the svg the report wouldn't have got closed, to be honest. :)
[14:22] <nenolod> i can handle it upstream
[14:23] <persia> Rhonda: heh, yeah.
[14:23] <lfaraone> heh. /usr/bin/squeak is in a huuuge single patch called "linex.dpatch"
[14:23] <persia> nenolod: Cool.  Thanks.  Do you expect to do that soon, so we can cherrypick, or ought we generate a patch locally?  (we're running against release freeze soon).
[14:25] <nenolod> audacious-plugins: William Pitcock <nenolod@atheme.org> default * 4426:822c842d471e /src/statusicon/si_ui.c: Look for audacious-panel before audacious when looking up icons in the icon theme.
[14:25] <nenolod> go for it
[14:25] <segler> hi, i am searching for help. i need a motu to upload my feature freeze exeption accepted package to universe, please. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rhythmbox-radio-browser/+bug/544416
[14:26] <bdrung> nenolod: persia: kklimonda: Rhonda: i took audacious2.png and placed it on a black background: http://de.tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2ps3mf6&s=5 can you confirm this result? if yes, then something is wrong with the alpha channel.
[14:27] <nenolod> bdrung, i do see that in enlightenment's taskbar on e17
[14:27] <lfaraone> sistpoty|work: uh, is there a rationale for the NUV? please post the changelog, so it can be deterined that it introduces no new features.
[14:27] <lfaraone> segler: see above
[14:27] <nenolod> that icon sucks anyway it should be converted to SVG
[14:27] <lfaraone> sistpoty|work: oops, mishilite :)
[14:27] <sistpoty|work> heh :)
[14:27] <persia> bdrung: That looks clean to me.
[14:27] <bdrung> nenolod: i would love to see a svg icon.
[14:29] <segler> lfaraone: what do you mean?
[14:29] <bdrung> persia: what do you mean with clean?
[14:30] <persia> That I can read the 'a' and the background appears black, and not incedibly ugly.
[14:31] <bdrung> the question is, if the icon should look like this on a black background: http://de.tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2r4gy7c&s=5
[14:31] <bdrung> nenolod: ^
[14:31] <Rhonda> bdrung: Yes, it doesn't fade into alpha channel but into white. nenolod did also confirm that he thinks that's an problem and could get fixed.
[14:33] <persia> I see where I'm confused.  The alpha channel was around, but the fade was white.
[14:33] <bdrung> i think that's the only issue.
[14:34] <bdrung> can someone change the fade or do you, nenolod, want to do it?
[14:34] <nenolod> bdrung, go for it.
[14:35] <bdrung> i am not a graphics guru. i don't know how to fix it.
[14:36] <lfaraone> segler: well, we only accept new upstream versions that do not include new features.
[14:36] <persia> kklimonda: Do you know how?
[14:37] <segler> lfaraone: it is already accepted, i only need someone to upload it
[14:37] <kklimonda> persia: no, I'm more of a coder than a graphic designer :)
[14:37] <lfaraone> ah, didn't read the rest of the bug :)
[14:40] <persia> Pity.  Any artists about?
[14:41] <jcastro> hi
[14:41] <jcastro> persia: anything I can do to help wrt. audacious?
[14:41] <sistpoty|work> what's the deal with audacious?
[14:42] <persia> jcastro: Mostly we need an artist to fix the alpha-channel blending for an icon at this point, and we can get the fixed icon distributed upsteam and in Ubuntu.
[14:42] <persia> jcastro: If you can source someone with skils to get that done, it would be lovely.
[14:42] <jcastro> I can source! I need a bug or something with all the details the artist will need
[14:42] <sistpoty|work> ah, k... thought things would have really gone wrong with the new upstream version, *phew*
[14:43] <persia> bdrung: ADowe already have a bug for this?
[14:43] <lfaraone> segler: you have to subscribe ~ubuntu-sponsors. I've done that for you.
[14:43] <segler> lfaraone: thanks
[14:43] <bdrung> persia: no
[14:44] <lfaraone> persia: I just briefly reviewed some documentation on bash, does http://sprunge.us/jKVb?sh seem like what I should be adding to the script? ( and the associated manual page, of course)
[14:44] <lfaraone> there is probably a better way to handle this.
[14:45] <lfaraone> scratch that, http://sprunge.us/cZFZ?sh
[14:46] <bdrung> i think i manage to work with gimp
[14:47] <bdrung> no, still not perfect
[14:48] <persia> bdrung: OK.  If you get stuck, jcastro will get you an artist.
[14:48] <bdrung> jcastro: artist please
[14:48] <persia> lfaraone: Something like that ought work, I think.
[14:48] <jcastro> bdrung: I need a bug with requirements pls.
[14:48]  * bdrung is only a hacker
[14:48] <bdrung> jcastro: k
[14:48] <jcastro> so I can assign it to someone
[14:48] <jcastro> bdrung: I'll make it my priority
[14:49] <lfaraone> persia: heh. this isn't made easier by the fact that /usr/bin/squeak is written in half-english, half-spanish
[14:50] <nenolod> lfaraone, ouch
[14:52] <bdrung> jcastro: bug #563043
[14:52] <bdrung> nenolod, persia: ^
[14:53] <bdrung> jcastro: a svg version wouldn't hurt.
[14:53] <bdrung> nenolod: should the svg icon look like the png one or do you plan to create a totally new one?
[14:56] <nenolod> bdrung, just trace it with umm
[14:56] <nenolod> what is that app
[14:56] <nenolod> inkscape
[14:57] <bdrung> nenolod: k
[14:59] <bdrung> jcastro: if possible, a svg version is preferred
[14:59] <jcastro> on it
[15:26] <debfx> I just read that packages should disable the launchpad integration (hide the "report a problem" menu entry) for the final release. is that true?
[15:27] <shadeslayer> i have a package which has .pot files,how do i build them with the package?
[15:27] <shadeslayer> with the 3.0 format
[15:27] <kklimonda> debfx: yes
[15:27] <kklimonda> at least that's what I've heard too
[15:27] <kklimonda> debfx: https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/desktop-lucid-bug-management
[15:27] <shadeslayer> also,how do i build the docbook with the new format :)
[15:29] <debfx> kklimonda: ok thanks, do you know the reason behind it?
[15:30] <shadeslayer> ok more specifically i need help with  dh_installdocs :D
[15:30] <kklimonda> debfx: not really but it's probably worth asking about
[15:31] <shadeslayer> im reading the manpage but i need a bit of help ;)
[15:34] <kklimonda> debfx: you can read more at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DesktopTeam/Specs/Lucid/BugHandling
[15:35] <evilshadeslayer> yeah so any ideas guys?
[15:35] <joaopinto> is anyone aware about the licensing issues with audacious plugins ?
[15:36] <joaopinto> I am being threatened with DMCA, does the official package cover such concerns, bdrung ... ?
[15:36] <kklimonda> debfx: also "users usually want to use the answer tracker to have somebody looking at their issue rather than report bugs"
[15:37] <bdrung> joaopinto: no
[15:37] <persia> joaopinto: What's the license issue?  Under what license are they distributed?
[15:37] <bdrung> joaopinto: are you getdeb dev?
 joaopinto, the plugins collection contains plugins under many different license options.
[15:37] <joaopinto> yes
[15:38] <joaopinto> and I am being threatened to get a DMCA noticed for distributing it
[15:38] <bdrung> joaopinto: we removed one plugin in the debian package
[15:38] <persia> joaopinto: You have to grep all the files, and check what can be distributed.  My memory is that it needed a repack.
[15:38] <joaopinto> ok, maybe I should compare it with the current lucid version
[15:38] <nenolod> joaopinto, i want you to stop
[15:38] <nenolod> joaopinto, providing audacious
[15:39] <nenolod> joaopinto, in getdeb
[15:39] <persia> joaopinto: How much patch are you carrying?  If none, ought we do a backport so you can share that?
[15:39] <nenolod> joaopinto, is this really worth your time?
[15:39] <bdrung> joaopinto: i recommend to pull the lucid version and to keep close
[15:39] <bdrung> yeah, a backport seams a good idea
[15:40] <bdrung> (after fixing the icon and the sse2 issue)
[15:40] <joaopinto> nenolod, I don't like random persons violating free software policies, so yes, it does worth my time, is not about the package itself, is about the freedom which you are trying to restrict
[15:40] <nenolod> hope you have a lot of money
[15:40] <sebner> bdrung: WTH is this new Audacious GTKui player thing btw :)
[15:40] <persia> joaopinto: Um, have you checked the licenses?  Lots of audio codecs end up being problematic to redistribute.
[15:41] <bdrung> sebner: don't ask me, ask upstream ;)
[15:41] <persia> joaopinto: As bdrung mentioned, some had to be removed in Debian.
[15:41] <sebner> bdrung: upstream doensn't provide any changelogs or forums with information :P
[15:41] <persia> joaopinto: So if getdeb isn't doing that, you're vulnerable (and you want to fix it).
[15:42] <joaopinto> persia, the discussion was drove  for the DMCA, was the fact that getdeb drivers to much poor quality bug reports (which are not related to packaging), so I am not quite sure they are bing honest about the license issue
[15:42] <persia> sebner: No, but upstream idles here and helps us deal with some classes of issue, so we oughtn't complain too much (live people are more precious than changelogs)
[15:43] <nenolod> joaopinto, the USF plugin is not free software.  but it doesn't affect you.
[15:43] <persia> joaopinto: For your own due dilligence, you need to check.  That something was removed in Debian is a strong indicator there is an issue.
[15:43] <joaopinto> ok, I will
[15:47] <bdrung> DEB_BUILD_ARCH is "i386" on x86?
[15:47] <persia> I believe so.
[15:48]  * persia checks
[15:48]  * persia checks on a non-powerpc machine
[15:49] <persia> bdrung: Yes.
[15:49] <persia> (at least according to `dpkg-architecture -qDEB_BUILD_ARCH`)
[15:50] <bdrung> great
[16:03] <nenolod> sebner, audacious2 has modular frontends.
[16:03] <nenolod> sebner, GTKUI is one of those frontends.
[16:03] <sebner> nenolod: Ic, thx
[16:07] <dupondje> its nice the newest audacious got into Lucid :)
[16:10] <persia> dupondje: Thank bdrung and nenolod for that.
[16:11] <dupondje> feel the love !!!
[16:11] <dupondje> :)
[16:11] <nenolod> actually it's ctaylor and bdrung
[16:59] <lfaraone> If debian is not using a patch system for a package, and I need to modify it in Ubuntu, should I add such a system?
[17:00] <persia> lfaraone: Generally not, but it depends on how Debian isn't using a patch system.
[17:01] <persia> lfaraone: Check the diff: if there's really no patches at all (it's quite possible to patch without a patch system), check other packages with the same maintainer, to try to determine maintainer preference.
[17:01] <persia> If there are patches in the diff (without a patch system), just stay with that model.
[17:03] <lfaraone> persia: yep, they make changes directly it seems.
[17:03] <persia> Then do it that way.
[17:03] <james_w> anyone want to help with https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+source/am-utils/+bug/509981 ?
[17:04] <james_w> should be fairly easy changes and I will be on-hand to sponsor (preferably from bzr)
[17:04] <persia> This usually happens when a maintainer has a private VCS and doesn't want to fuss with dealing with two different classes of patch management.
[17:07] <sistpoty|work> james_w: debian-faq already has a debdiff at bug #531711
[17:07] <sistpoty|work> (not too sure if it's correct though)
[17:08] <james_w> sistpoty|work: cool, thanks, I'll take a look
[17:08] <james_w> ah, don't worry, I've never been bothered with correctness
[17:10] <sistpoty|work> haha
[17:13] <lfaraone> persia: interesting, in /usr/bin/squeak it says "If the available arguments to start the squeak virtual machine have to be used, you should avoid using this script, and call the real virtual machine using squeakvm"
[17:13] <lfaraone> persia: I could just have etoys use the same magic that the squeak script uses to find squeakvm.
[17:15] <nigelb> bdrung, poke
[17:17] <persia> lfaraone: That would be easier, yes.  The rationale for chaning the handler is to support random 3rd party scripts.  That's not a high priority.
[17:17] <lfaraone> persia: okay. well, I tryed making the change and I can't seem to do it right, so I'll just fix etoys. :)
[17:18] <jcastro> bdrung: can you attach the original icon to the bug please?
[17:18] <persia> lfaraone: That seems reasonable :)
[17:18] <jcastro> bdrung: kwwii found someone to do the work!
[17:21] <bdrung> jcastro: icon added to bug #563043
[17:21] <jcastro> thank you sir!
[17:22] <nigelb> bdrung, for the vlc, what did you need again?
[17:22] <bdrung> nigelb: only the translation patch
[17:23] <nigelb> its already there in the bug I believe
[17:23] <bdrung> k
[17:24] <nigelb> bdrung, sorry about the typo in the name.  I was at work and quickly rushing through my mails
[17:25] <bdrung> nigelb: no problem
[17:25] <bdrung> it was funny
[17:25] <nigelb> I only noticed it now
[17:28] <lfaraone> persia: mk, fixed in etoys right now at bug 561332, filed a separate wishlist bug 563164 asking for more magic in /usr/bin/squeak
[17:31] <persia> lfaraone: Good plan with the wishlist bug.
[17:31] <lfaraone> (not fixed, rather "proposed for merging")
[17:32] <lfaraone> persia: thanks. I should either learn bash at some point or convert /usr/bin/squeak to a Python script :)
[17:33] <persia> lfaraone: The former is probably easier, as it introduces fewer dependencies on the package :)
[17:46] <Ciemon> Laney: thanks, long may it continue :)
[17:50] <c_korn> does someone know the bug+ of the SDL bug affecting wesnoth 1.8 ?
[17:51] <sistpoty|work> c_korn: bug #528957
[17:51] <jcastro> nenolod: ok so we're fixing the icon, what were your other concerns?
[17:54] <c_korn> sistpoty|work: thanks
[17:54] <sistpoty|work> yw
[17:56]  * sistpoty|work heads home now... cya
[18:01] <nenolod> jcastro, i think that was the general concern
[18:01] <jcastro> ok, we've got someone working on it now.
[18:01] <jcastro> when things like this come up just ping us and we'll fix it
[18:03] <segler> hi, could somebody help me with uploading this package? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rhythmbox-radio-browser/+bug/544416
[18:04] <nenolod> jcastro, i believe the icon was bdrung's concern
[18:05] <segler> it already got accepted, i only need someone to upload it
[18:26] <nigelb> Is it too late to sync something from debian?  not syncing causes 2 packages to be broken in lucid
[18:26] <nigelb> the package in question ins epiphany-extensions
[18:27] <nigelb> unless its synced, the current epiphany-extensions and epiphany-extensions-more would be broken
[18:29] <hyperair> i don't think it's too late.
[18:29] <hyperair> if it's a bugfix only thing, of course
[18:30] <nigelb> its a new upstream release
[18:31] <nigelb> which is whats giving me a little jitters about syncing
[18:31] <hyperair> heh i see.
[18:32] <hyperair> well talk to some ubuntu-release people.
[18:32] <hyperair> that's what i do when i encounter situations like this
[18:32] <nigelb> ah
[18:32] <nigelb> lemme ask in #ubuntu-release then :)
[18:44] <lfaraone> james_w: fixed issues with dropping @prefix@ in etoys, missed that.
[18:56] <Rhonda> ScottK: Should I submit the FFe for wesnoth right on - upstream told me that there are two bugfixes that I should pull in and I'm starting to prepare 1.8-2. That will take me a few days though because of my baby. :/
[19:01] <james_w> Rhonda: congratulations btw :-)
[19:01] <nigelb> james_w, for what?
[19:02] <james_w> a new arrival
[19:02] <nigelb> james_w, core dev?
[19:02] <james_w> no
[19:02] <sebner> nigelb: baby
[19:02] <nigelb> ooooh...
[19:02] <nigelb> Rhonda, congrats :)
[19:02] <sebner> Rhonda: from me too of course, so will you be at GLT next week?
[19:05] <segler> hi, could somebody help me with uploading this package? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rhythmbox-radio-browser/+bug/544416
[19:05] <segler> it already got accepted, i only need someone to upload it
[19:08] <Rhonda> james_w, nigelb, sebner: Thanks. :D
[19:08] <Rhonda> sebner: Yes, will be there - the small one though won't attend the conference. ;)
[19:08] <sebner> heh
[19:09] <sebner> Rhonda: good, to know, where can I find you then? :)
[19:10] <Rhonda> Debian booth, grml booth, LPI booth and especially LPI examns (for most of the time probably). Oh, and keysigning of course.
[19:10] <Rhonda> sebner: Did you sign up for keysigning yet?
[19:11] <sebner> Rhonda: nah because I won't be able to be around until the signing party (~18.00) starts so I thought we two can do this alone
[19:11] <mdeslaur> nhandler: Unfortunately, I need to cancel the packaging training tomorrow
[19:11] <Rhonda> sebner: Sure, fits too. :)
[19:11] <Rhonda> sebner: Bring enough slips of paper then, also for others. :)
[19:12] <sebner> Rhonda: great :D you have to tell me what I have to do though xD
[19:12] <Rhonda> sebner: Print your fingerprint onto it of course. ;)
[19:12] <Rhonda> sebner: The rest is reading the manpage of caff and getting familiar with it (package signing-party)
[19:17] <mdeslaur> james_w: I unfortunately need to cancel my package training session tomorrow
[19:17] <james_w> oh, that's a shame
[19:17] <james_w> mdeslaur: who did you talk to about setting it up?
[19:17] <mdeslaur> james_w: sorry, but I just got home from emergency surgery :(
[19:17] <james_w> ouch, get well soon
[19:17] <mdeslaur> james_w: I think it was nhandler
[19:17] <nigelb> mdeslaur, oh.. get well soon
[19:18] <james_w> mdeslaur: don't worry about it, we'll take care of it
[19:18] <james_w> thanks for letting us know, now go and rest :-)
[19:18] <mdeslaur> james_w: thanks, and sorry...I'm looking forward to giving it in the future
[19:34] <segler> hi, could somebody help me with uploading this package? https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rhythmbox-radio-browser/+bug/544416
[19:34] <segler> it already got accepted, i only need someone to upload it
[19:48] <segler> please, i need someone to upload something for me, it is already approved. it is only a rhythmbox-plugin https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rhythmbox-radio-browser/+bug/544416
[19:56] <segler> somebody out there? :)
[20:26] <segler> i could still could use some help: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rhythmbox-radio-browser/+bug/544416
[20:36] <cr3> if I want to debianize an upstream project, would it make sense to create a project in launchpad where to push branches and build packages?
[20:49] <segler> hi again, i know you guys are really busy right now, some answer would be nice
[20:54] <blueyed> just ask, segler
[20:56] <micahg> mr_pouit: I don't like the new cpufeq applet
[20:57] <blueyed> known? http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/wiki.ubuntu.com - where to report?
[21:01] <mr_pouit> micahg: mmh, "new"?
[21:02] <blueyed> with a ubuntu-only package, the version should be -0ubuntu1 always, shouldn't it? re bug 544416 - which I'll sponsor in case segler asked here before already.
[21:02] <ajmitch> morning
[21:03] <micahg> mr_pouit: maybe it was just me, I thought it required powernowd for some reason...I'll do some more research I guess, but the dynamic frequency changing doesn't seem to work right...probably not the applet's problem in any case, just coincidence...
[21:03] <blueyed> ScottK: re bug 544416: I will upload 3.0.1 straight away, ok? - as 3.0.1-0ubuntu1
[21:04] <blueyed> ^^ sry.. 548389
[21:04] <ScottK> blueyed: As long as you've tested, fine.
[21:05] <ScottK> Rhonda: A few days for Wesnoth is fine.  Since it's Universe we have pleanty of time.  I totally understand about children.
[21:05] <ajmitch> ScottK: I assume you'll wave through the syncs that ~ubuntu-archive is subscribed to if they're not done by final freeze in a few hours?
[21:06] <mr_pouit> micahg: xfce4-cpu{,-}freq-plugin aren't really maintained upstream anyway. So it's possible they don't work well =]
[21:07] <micahg> mr_pouit: as long as I have you here, I was wondering why we didn't jump to xfce4-power-manager without hal...
[21:07] <ScottK> ajmitch: "Final freeze" is really only at all final for seeded packages.
[21:07] <ScottK> We've got ~10 days for Universe yet.
[21:07] <ajmitch> I'll try not to touch too many seeded packages then
[21:08] <RoAkSoAx> blueyed, tentative changes for nginx the index in /var/www: http://paste.ubuntu.com/414519/
[21:08] <Laney> It won't affect my ability to do give-backs, will it?
[21:08] <ScottK> Also, since I don't have shell access due to not being a Canonical employee, I can't actually do the sync's anyway.
[21:08] <ScottK> Laney: No
[21:08] <Laney> good
[21:08] <Laney> there seems to be a backlog on the buildds so I'm not abe to get these haskell rebuilds done as fast as I'd like
[21:08] <ScottK> Laney: Do be at least a bit careful.  The buildds are quite backed up at the moment.
[21:08] <Laney> ;)
[21:08] <ajmitch> ah, I didn't realise it *still* needed shell access :)
[21:08] <ScottK> It does.
[21:08] <mr_pouit> micahg: unfortunately, it depends on libxfce4ui, which is still in development (will be released with Xfce 4.8).
[21:08] <ajmitch> how frustrating
[21:09] <micahg> mr_pouit: ah, ok
[21:09] <ajmitch> the rcbugs page still has a few packages to look at, I suspect
[21:09] <mr_pouit> micahg: afaik, there is a package for that in the xubuntu-dev ppa if you want it
[21:10] <Laney> ScottK: I imagine they will be freed up somewhat after the freeze
[21:10] <ScottK> yes.  Things should slow down somewhat then
[21:10] <micahg> mr_pouit: I was wondering if it might make power management better...I'll have to check out the dev PPA
[21:11] <ajmitch> ScottK: we'll still be allowed to just push through new upstream versions which just fix bugs for the next few days without approval?
[21:12] <Laney> Yes
[21:12] <ScottK> ajmitch: For unseeded packages yes.
[21:12] <ajmitch> great
[21:12] <ScottK> The queue will be frozen, so they'll need a manual push.
[21:12]  * ajmitch had someone asking about bug 531275, it needs a quick merge to do it
[21:12] <Laney> ajmitch: *cough* fancy being a Debian sponsor?
[21:13] <ajmitch> Laney: I haven't updated my sid VM for a week or so, so it may take a little bit
[21:13] <ajmitch> what do you want uploaded?
[21:13] <Laney> docky. See in #-cli
[21:13] <Laney> we can wait for 'hex if you'd rather
[21:13] <Laney> I just feel a bit impatient about this one
[21:14] <ajmitch> probably best, since I don't have git-buildpackage & co setup properly in the vm, it's all arcane magic :)
[21:14] <Laney> ooer
[21:14] <ajmitch> yeah
[21:15] <ajmitch> tips on setting that up properly for sponsoring would be nice at some point :)
[21:16] <Laney> I don't think there are any tricks, just install it and make sure your user.name and user.email are set
[21:16] <Laney> then git-buildpackage --git-tag{,-only} when you upload
[21:16] <Laney> but others would obviously know better
[21:16] <keffie_jayx> hello guys
[21:17] <ajmitch> as long as that'd automate generating the orig.tar.gz & preparing something useful for upoad
[21:17] <Laney> yep
[21:17] <keffie_jayx> I am trying to package something from scratch, the tarball is name satanas-Turpial-1fe9fa5. the source tarball should have the same name?
[21:17] <Laney> providing you have pristine-tar branched
[21:18] <keffie_jayx> eventhough it is a branch name and a revision number?
[21:18] <ajmitch> Laney: it's those little gotchas...
[21:18] <Laney> indeed
[21:18] <Laney> but if you want to do it, come to #-cli and we'll hand hold you for the first couple of goes
[21:19] <ajmitch> eep, 872MB of sid updates, I forgot it's been awhile since I touched that
[21:20] <ajmitch> this may take some time :)
[21:21] <ajmitch> keffie_jayx: having a revision like that in the version name may not be sensible
[21:21] <ajmitch> given that it probably won't be an increasing revision number like with svn
[21:22] <Laney> there are schemas for git version names
[21:22] <Laney> 0~gitDATE+rX+shorthash
[21:22] <Laney> where x is an increasing number
[21:23] <keffie_jayx> and the x increases how?
[21:23] <Laney> if you have to make more than one upload on a given day
[21:23] <Laney> then increase it from 0 to 1
[21:23] <keffie_jayx> right
[21:25] <Rhonda> hmm. I have issues with calling requestsync.
[21:25] <keffie_jayx> source package would then be turpial_1.0_b1~git20100414+r0+??
[21:26] <ScottK> Rhonda: What's the issue?
[21:26] <keffie_jayx> or turpial_1.0_b1~git20100414+r0+??.orig.tar.gz
[21:26] <Rhonda> E: No credentials found for 'ubuntu-dev-tools', please see the manage-credentials manpage for help on how to create one for this consumer.
[21:26] <Rhonda> ScottK: Do I have to configure it somehow before I use it first?
[21:26] <ajmitch> Rhonda: see the end of that manpage
[21:26] <ScottK> Rhonda: You can either follow those instructions or submit via gpg signed mail.
[21:27] <ScottK> The man page for requestsync gives you the flag for doing it by mail.
[21:27]  * ScottK has never tried the Launchpad way
[21:27] <Rhonda> Is the wiki down currently?
[21:27]  * ajmitch really really felt like stabbing requestsync the other day - turns out that it'll happily try ipv6 by default before ipv4
[21:27] <micahg> ScottK: it's cool, it checks your package upload rights
[21:28] <ajmitch> 10 minutes of wated time per sync trying to connect to packages.debian.org before I setup an ipv6 tunnel :)
[21:28] <blueyed> when you're waiting for a reply, please resend, computer locked up.
[21:28] <jpds> ajmitch: Is that not always the case?
[21:28] <ScottK> micahg: The email one used to do that before it was crippled somehow.
[21:28] <ajmitch> jpds: possibly, but it took about 5 minutes to timeout per ipv6 address tried
[21:28] <micahg> ScottK: I thought the email one just asked you if you have rights
[21:28] <ScottK> I suspect we're being 'encouraged' to use the launchpad way.
[21:29] <ScottK> micahg: It does now.  That wasn't always the case.
[21:30] <keffie_jayx> is there any guide I could follow that could help me through packaging naming convention for sources from version control like git
[21:31] <blueyed> persia: re ubuntu-sponsors.. how to ask those for main then in particular? or is only u-u-s deprecated?
[21:31] <Rhonda> ScottK: Acutally I wonder wether I should just turn bug #557696 into the FFe as additional reasoning. ;)
[21:31] <keffie_jayx> i am sure renaming the source package to what I think is not aceptable right?
[21:31] <ScottK> Rhonda: That looks sensible.
[21:32] <keffie_jayx> the tarball I mean
[21:32] <RoAkSoAx> ScottK, I was re-checking the dropping of python-dev build-dep for pacemaker, and they also use it on RPMs to build, so I'm unsure if I should go ahead and drop it or keep it
[21:32] <RoAkSoAx> blueyed, tentative changes for nginx the index in /var/www: http://paste.ubuntu.com/414519/
[21:32] <persia> blueyed: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2010-February/030194.html
[21:32] <blueyed> RoAkSoAx: thanks, I've got that, but had not looked at it. will do.
[21:32] <ScottK> RoAkSoAx: If you aren't compilling C code into a Python extension then you  shouldn't need the -dev.
[21:33] <Rhonda> Hmmm, who was to be subscribed again? Unfortunately the wiki.ubuntu seems to be down for me. :(
[21:33] <ScottK> blueyed: Note that Red Hat's python-dev split may be different than ours.
[21:33] <RoAkSoAx> blueyed, i'll be uploading it to my ppa and start testing
[21:33] <ScottK> Rhonda: Just ping me when you've got the bug fixed up.  I'll deal with it.
[21:33] <Rhonda> ScottK: If it won't be too much bother I would like to request 1.8-1 now and when I manage to get 1.8-2 ready request the update then again. As sort of save net. :)
[21:34] <RoAkSoAx> ScottK, right. So how would I check if there's compilation of C code into Python extensions?
[21:34] <ScottK> Rhonda: That's fine.
[21:34] <ScottK> RoAkSoAx: Look at the source and see or test build without -dev and see if it explodes.
[21:35] <Rhonda> ScottK: I think I adjusted the subject correctly, can you look?
[21:35] <RoAkSoAx> ScottK, well it builds without the -dev but I'm waiting for it to build on PPA to test if it works after dropping the dependency
[21:36] <micahg> could I get a MOTU to respin IA64 on miro please: https://edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/miro/2.5.4-1ubuntu2
[21:36]  * persia presses the shiny button
[21:36]  * ScottK looks
[21:36] <c_korn> can someone please test this code http://paste.debian.net/68889 and confirm that it gives this error http://paste.debian.net/68891 ? (I opened the bug with this bug_id just for the purpose of modifying)
[21:38] <persia> micahg: Just as a side note, the ia64 queue is long enough that you'll need a buildd-admin to reprioritise if you want it done before release.
[21:38] <micahg> persia: as long as it gets done at some point, I guess I don't care
[21:39] <micahg> persia: 3.0 or 3.0.1 might supersede by then
[21:40] <persia> micahg: The queue is currently at 7 days, and any new uploads take precedence over any rebuilds by default.
[21:40] <micahg> persia: thank you
[21:40] <ScottK> Rhonda: Approved.
[21:40] <micahg> persia: yep, that's fine, my guess is not too many people on that arch are using it anyways
[21:41] <Rhonda> ScottK: \o/
[21:42] <ScottK> Rhonda: Now we just need a kind archive admin with shell access like james_w perhaps to do the sync.....
[21:44] <blueyed> micahg: I'm working on miro 3.0.1
[21:44] <micahg> blueyed: I know :)
[21:44] <blueyed> ok.. just catching up.
[21:44] <james_w> ScottK: package name and lp id of the requester?
[21:45] <blueyed> persia: re sponsors, ok.
[21:45] <james_w> could someone possibly testbuild and upload miro?
[21:45] <blueyed> james_w: on the run.
[21:45] <james_w> I can't install xulrunner in my build chroot for some silly reason
[21:45] <ScottK> james_w: wesnoth-1.8 from experimental.  Rhonda: What's your LP id?
[21:45] <james_w> blueyed: you're already uploading it?
[21:45] <blueyed> james_w: 3.0 is in my ppa already (should be)
[21:45] <blueyed> james_w: testbuilding
[21:45] <persia> blueyed: So, do you want to join ubuntu-sponsors?
[21:45] <blueyed> sure
[21:45] <james_w> blueyed: you have upload permissions?
[21:46] <ScottK> james_w: LP ID is rhonda
[21:46] <blueyed> james_w: how do I know? ^^
[21:46] <persia> blueyed: You do.  You have for a long time.
[21:47] <Rhonda> james_w: Like ScottK said, surprisingly enough. ;)
[21:47] <james_w> thanks
[21:47] <lfaraone> For SRUs, if we're creating a new ubuntu delta we use ubuntu0.1, right?
[21:47] <RoAkSoAx> persia, btw.. now that you are talking about ubuntu-sponsors... please add me too :) lp: andreserl
[21:47] <persia> RoAkSoAx: OK.
[21:47] <RoAkSoAx> persia, thank you :)
[21:48] <james_w> blueyed: then please be more explicit when requesting reviews using bzr
[21:48] <ajmitch> I think I'm still a member of ~ubuntu-sponsors, indirectly
[21:48] <james_w> blueyed: I assumed you needed sponsoring
[21:48] <ScottK> persia: Sounds like ajmitch just volunteered too.
[21:48] <persia> ajmitch: You are, but none of the memberships in the teams that grant indirect membership are being renewed.
[21:48]  * micahg needs things sponsored :)
[21:48] <persia> ajmitch: If I add you, will you sponsor something?
[21:49] <blueyed> I'm via motu, too. And cannot apply manually: persia, please add me, too.
[21:49] <ajmitch> persia: I've been sponsoring a few changes in the last week or two
[21:49] <persia> blueyed: It's not via MOTU, but I'm adding you.  Please wait for me to dig through the LP interface :)
[21:49] <persia> ajmitch: I'll add you directly then :)
[21:49] <blueyed> universe sponsors (motu) ;)
[21:50] <james_w> Rhonda, ScottK: please ack: http://paste.ubuntu.com/414532/
[21:50] <blueyed> persia: wow. that could get done with a single db query prolly for all ;)
[21:50] <micahg> persia: will the meeting on the 27th be an ok time to apply for MOTU or will it be too busy?
[21:50] <ScottK> james_w: That's the one
[21:51] <ScottK> james_w: #557696  if you want to add it.
[21:51] <ScottK> I'll do it manually if not
[21:51] <micahg> ajmitch: would you like to sponsor vlc for me?
[21:51] <persia> micahg: Hard to say: depends on how much administrative stuff we have.  I suspect admin will be light, so we'll end up with time for several candidates.  An exact number is hard to predict.  Worst case, you end up at the top of the queue for the following meeting.
[21:51] <micahg> persia: k
[21:51] <james_w> ScottK: I can do it, but just wanted a check I was doing what was requested
[21:52] <ScottK> james_w: OK.  Thanks.
[21:52] <Rhonda> james_w: Looks proper, yes.
[21:52] <james_w> synced
[21:52] <james_w> ScottK: can you handle NEW?
[21:52] <Rhonda> cheers :)
[21:52] <ScottK> james_w: Yes.
[21:52] <james_w> or will it timeout due to the large size?
[21:53] <Rhonda> cat /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_max_freq | sudo tee /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_setspeed  # maybe my wesnoth compile finishes earlier now
[21:54] <ScottK> james_w: For New, it's the number of items in the package history, not the size of the package that seems to drive timeouts.
[21:54] <ScottK> If it does, I'll ask for help.
[21:54] <james_w> ah, ok
[21:54] <james_w> I can get source actually
[21:54] <james_w> it will just be if binaries make it through soon, as I'll be off shortly
[21:55] <ScottK> OK  Great.  I'll keep an eye out for them.
[21:55] <james_w> ok, waved through
[21:55] <ScottK> Although as backlogged as the buildds are, I suspect you;ll be back well before the binaries are ready.
[21:56] <james_w> heh
[21:56] <ScottK> Great.
[21:56] <ScottK> Rhonda: There you go.
[21:56] <james_w> right, uploaded and sponsored everything on my plate, so I'm calling it a day on final freeze
[21:56] <james_w> have fun everyone
[22:01] <blueyed> james_w: wiki is down. how do I go on uploading now? (via builddeb plugin)
[22:03] <ScottK> blueyed: How is a wiki related to uploading?
[22:03] <blueyed> ScottK: documentation.. :)
[22:04] <blueyed> the miro upload
[22:04] <Laney> bzr bd -S ... do the normal thing
[22:04] <Laney> then bzr mark-uploaded; bzr push lp:ubuntu/XXX
[22:04] <ScottK> Laney: Actuall it's -S -- -sa IIRC
[22:04] <ScottK> ...y
[22:05] <Laney> depends what you want to do, but yes indeed you can pass extra flags in
[22:05] <blueyed> yes.
[22:05] <blueyed> the last push to the bug ID? or package name?
[22:05] <Laney> package name
[22:05] <ScottK> Since it's a new upstream, it needs -sa
[22:05] <Laney> I presume it's a merge, so yes
[22:05] <Laney> and -v then
[22:06] <nhandler> mdeslaur: Thanks for the heads up. Hopefully we can reshedule you once you have time to recover
[22:24] <nhandler> Are there any developers who might be willing to fill in for a Packaging Training session tomorrow?
[22:24] <blueyed> Should have done debcommit, shouldn't I?
[22:24] <blueyed> Now I've missed the "-v" to bd even.
[22:25] <blueyed> should I reupload for finxing the changelog in changes to include all changes?
[22:27]  * ajmitch wishes the wiki would work properly
[22:27] <ajmitch> nhandler: sorry, 6AM local time is a bit too painful for me :)
[22:29] <nhandler> ajmitch: We could change the time if necessary
[22:30] <ajmitch> I don't feel confident that I'm familiar enough with everything again to be able to give a session
[22:35] <james_w> nhandler: I could do it actually
[22:35] <james_w> what time was it scheduled?
[22:35] <ajmitch> 1800 UTC
[22:36] <james_w> not great, but can probably swing it
[22:36] <nhandler> james_w: Like I said, we can change the time
[22:37] <james_w> nhandler: yeah, better if we don't though
[22:37] <james_w> nhandler: yeah, can we move it 3 hours earlier?
[22:38] <nhandler> james_w: Sure. What topic do you want to present?
[22:38] <james_w> bzr!
[22:38] <james_w> "Fixing an Ubuntu bug with bzr" is not the most imaginative title, but the best I can do right now
[22:38] <james_w> where should I update?
[22:39] <nhandler> james_w: Everything is updated. Thanks a lot!
[22:39] <james_w> wow
[22:39] <james_w> you rock
[22:39] <james_w> thanks nhandler
[22:40] <nhandler> james_w: Thank *you*.
[22:40] <nhandler> I'll get a little publicity work done for it later today
[22:40] <james_w> nice
[22:42] <kklimonda> hmm.. is UI Freeze only for packages from main?
[22:43] <james_w> kklimonda: it's for the assistance of the doc teams and the like, so the less likely it is to be documented somewhere then the less it applies I guess
[22:45] <ScottK> There are Universe flavors that have documentation too.
[22:50] <kklimonda> ok, thanks - that makes sense
[22:51] <james_w> ScottK: yeah, I don't think I claimed there weren't?
[22:56] <ScottK> james_w: No, I was trying to amplify your statement, not contradict it.
[22:59] <james_w> ScottK: sorry, misunderstood then
[23:00] <ScottK> james_w: I could have put it more clearly.