[01:43] godbyk, if you could pls point test.ubuntu-manual.org to lp:ubuntu-manual-website/main ?? [01:43] daker: sure. give me a few minutes to download that repository. [01:43] oki [01:43] (and hope that my internet connection holds up!) [01:44] lp:ubuntu-manual-website [01:44] daker: do you want me to set it to auto-update? [01:45] yes [01:46] daker: how long are you going to be around for? [01:47] about 2hours or less [01:47] daker: should be up now. [01:47] ah [01:47] i'll get that mockup done later today, you'll see it in your inbox when you come back tomorrow [01:47] godbyk, what am I looking at? [01:48] ah ha [01:48] video [01:48] fantastic [01:48] ? [01:48] http://test.ubuntu-manual.org/ [01:48] yeah [01:48] video is there [01:49] daker, contributors page is looking great [01:49] :D [01:49] i'll finish the contributors video today and re-render it [01:50] see the new shadowbox [01:50] shadowbox? [01:51] there is a shadow arround the page content [01:51] there is? [01:51] yes [01:51] I can't see it [01:51] your are using Chrome ? [01:51] yup [01:52] screenshot pls [01:52] i can see it in firefox [01:53] screenshot in a sec [01:53] http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/ump-no-shadow.png [01:56] this in Chrome ? [01:56] yep [01:56] odd [01:58] daker: is the language dropdown filled dynamically based on which translation files are available? or is the list hard-coded? [01:59] in filed on the includes/config.php file [01:59] it's* [02:01] hehehe [02:01] "mpt @TheUbuntuManual I’m torn between feeling lust for real Marmite, or alarm that a book is eating toast." [02:02] hhhh [02:02] godbyk, you can see the shadowbox ? [02:03] humphreybc, http://img265.imageshack.us/img265/9573/capturesq.png [02:03] daker, yeah, it looks like that in firefox for me [02:03] i'll do a side-by-side comparison for ye [02:04] you are sur that there is no cache files? [02:04] positive [02:05] http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/ff-chrome-ump.png [02:06] chrome on the left, firefox on the right [02:07] daker: I'm using Chrome and can't see it either. [02:10] normaly the css should works, tbBox-shadow is supported by Firefox (since the latest 3.5 version), Safari (since version 3.1) and by Chrome (since its first version) and Opera [02:11] the* Box-shadow [02:11] this is really odd [02:12] * daker is installing Chrome [02:14] godbyk, other thing [02:15] if you could pls push the lp:ubuntu-manua-website/main/includes/languages/ubu_man_website_translations.pot [02:16] to the main branch of the manual in /website/includes/languages/ [02:16] replace the old one [02:18] daker: yeah, let me look into it. [02:30] yeah humphreybc it doesn't work in chrome [02:34] oh well [02:35] remove the drop shadow altogether [02:35] my mockup for the social thing will work better without a drop shadow around the content box [02:35] let me look :) [02:35] i haven't made it yet :P [02:36] oki [02:44] humphreybc: amazon just emailed me this recommendation: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0596804849/ref=snp_dp [02:44] hey nice, an O'Reilly book [02:45] covers 10.04 too [02:45] very ugly cover :P [02:45] he's probably pissed at us for stealing all the glory [02:46] (and being a damn sight cheaper) [02:50] anyway, i'm off, gotta do some chores [02:50] k [03:39] Daker-shbot, ping [03:40] Daker-shbot: ping [03:40] pong [03:41] night all [04:47] godbyk, what do you reckon [04:47] http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/social-top.png [04:47] or [04:47] http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/social-right.png [05:36] sorry all, had to miss the meeting earlier [05:47] Ilya, no worries [05:48] check out http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/MaiZTb4Fjd [05:48] godbyk, what do I have to do? [05:50] nod. just finished going through logs and through the pads [05:51] groovy [05:51] i like the persona thing (though we'll want to spend a bit more time testing that persona -- for example, we should be sure that it'll resonate with our readers.. perhaps we can create four or five abridged personae and run through them with a quick survey) [05:51] the other thing is i'm not sure about the #3 goal for maverick [05:51] i.e. the developer manual etc [05:52] what are you not sure about It? [05:52] that doesn't make sense but i'm sure you get me haha [05:52] right. i guess i would rather focus on ubuntu, still, but focus on completeness [05:52] we have a lot (a _lot_) of holes in the manual right now [05:53] yup, and we're going to fix those for the lucid 2nd edition [05:53] and i think it'd take some effort to fill them. [05:53] well, no, i don't mean bugs [05:53] or just thigns that are slightly off. [05:53] sure [05:53] i think we can get things fixed up into shape and 100% error free for Lucid-E2 [05:53] we've got six months. we're aiming for the 2nd edition to have all _bugs_ fixed and the maverick release to have all the (relevant) content there [05:54] meanwhile we can work on the contributors manual too [05:54] most of which won't be written from scratch [05:54] i guess i am not sure what the contributors manual woudl include [05:54] it would basically be an introduction to each area that people can contribute to [05:55] there would be a summary of what that would involve, what prior experience you'll need (if any), perhaps some instructions on how to get started and then contact details/links for further help [05:55] i.e. "how to contribute to ubuntu design", "how to be a gnome developer", "packaging apps"? [05:55] why should _our_ team do this? [05:55] why shouldn't we? [05:56] well, for one, it seems quite different from a normal manual. [05:56] it is [05:56] i think that we (should) have our hands full of the main manual [05:56] i.e. the best _user_ manual [05:56] whereas the contributor manual seems somewhat orthogonal to our focus [05:56] i don't mean to disparage it. it's a great idea. [05:57] but it seems like the problems that we have for maverick are pretty large [05:57] i'm confident we can do well [05:57] hopefully after UDS we'll have better ties with the docs team and the learning project [05:57] 1) open office, 2) there'll be major changes, probably with a new gnome, 3) actually useful troubleshooting sections [05:57] right. gnome-shell isn't going to be in maverick [05:58] ah. [05:58] well, it's highly unlikely [05:58] and of course the other two big efforts in using the persona and creating a good quick-start guide [05:58] i guess i think with a contributor guide we'd be spreading ourselves too thin [05:58] the contributors manual will be a lot different to what we've already done, in the fact that it will mainly re-use content from the respective help on team pages etc [05:59] plus there is no hard deadline for a contributor guide. i.e. we could say that we can work on it after the maverick freeze, for example. [05:59] we have to have a new publication every release if we want to keep growing and attracting new people, it'll be difficult but I reckon we can nail it. [05:59] yeah well exactly, the contributors guide doesn't have to come out at maverick [06:00] ok. i still don't like it super-much in terms of focus, but as long as it does not get in the way of the main manual work, i support it. [06:01] yeah, it won't, top priority is the ubuntu manual [06:01] all of this is subject to a few things, like if we have enough people, if we have enough interest from the rest of the community [06:01] also, a question about lulu.com -- was a decision made to use it? [06:01] yep [06:01] i don't really understand the workflow. [06:02] it seems like with lulu anyone can print a copy. [06:02] godbyk can explain, if he's around [06:02] if _we_ print a bunch of copies, we'd have to pay for shipping to someone's location. and then that person would have to pay for shipping to each user. [06:02] no, we don't print them [06:02] we just upload the PDF and make it available, then people order it as if they were ordering a book from amazon [06:03] ok. so in that case it just saves them the step of uploading, right? [06:03] but we upload it with set options like black and white, paperback, sizes and stuff [06:03] basically, yeah [06:03] there's no price break, and it's free for us. [06:03] doesn't cost us a cent [06:03] and all the customer pays for is the cost of printing and shipping [06:03] we don't make any money [06:03] hence why we can offer it for $9.75 USD [06:03] for the most basic version [06:04] ok. [06:04] :) [06:04] well, except for the cheap paper. [06:04] + shipping [06:05] yeah I think that's + shipping [06:06] basically our project should keep growing and we should have many publications available for users to choose from [06:06] in all sorts of formats and covering lots of different topics [06:06] that's the ultimate goal [06:06] nod [06:06] our flagship will always be "Getting Started with Ubuntu" though [06:07] and each new feature for each release doesn't have to be a new manual [06:07] we could have a LaTeX GUI editor for the 11.04 cycle [06:07] or maybe our own translation infastructure [06:07] blurb.com also prints books... seems like it may be cheaper [06:07] http://www.blurb.com/create/book/pricing#bw-text [06:07] or our own bug reporting tool using the launchpad API [06:07] there are literally "unlimited possibilities" for our team ;) [06:08] true, a dollar cheaper [06:08] actually that cheaper pricing is for smaller page sizes [06:08] 5x8 inches [06:08] that's quite small [06:08] it would probably work out around the same price [06:13] yeah, lulu makes the most sense [06:13] you know, we should probably have a "read online" version on the site... using the google PDF reader, which i think you can embed [06:13] so that people don't need to download the PDF [06:17] yeah, I think someone else mentioned that [06:40] also check out https://www.createspace.com/Products/Book/ [06:54] humphreybc: " covering lots of different topics " ? expanding the manual? [06:56] vish, hmm? [06:56] in all sorts of formats and covering lots of different topics [06:56] was just reading the scrollback and noticed that :) [06:57] humphreybc> basically our project should keep growing and we should have many publications available for users to choose from [06:57] oh yeah [06:58] humphreybc: heys , i'll be at the UDS too :) [06:58] heya* [06:58] nice! [06:59] what day do you arrive? [06:59] 9th [07:00] humphreybc: hehe , my flight arrives at 7am and i thought i was early ;p [07:00] lol [07:02] humphreybc: btw, sort your time by arrival! you have it among the 9th arrivals ;) [07:02] i do? [07:02] link? [07:02] humphreybc: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-M/Attendees [07:03] oh i forgot to change the date [07:03] i do arrive on the 9th [07:03] ha , then infact I'm early :s [07:03] lol you are [07:04] changed [07:05] humphreybc: the share a taxi column is to select that you *want/prefer* to share or already have a person you are sharing with? [07:06] the ./ [07:06] I think it's want/prefer [07:06] k. [07:07] well popey might know.. ;) popey^ ? prefer or already have a person ? [07:07] he'll be asleep :P [07:08] it's 6am on a sunday morning [07:08] lazy brits ;p [07:08] it's prefer, because i know that everyone isn't already hooked up that well [07:08] ah , cool [07:09] my roommate is on the same flight as me :D [07:09] yup , popey is probably still asleep , no tweets ;) [07:09] humphreybc: lucky you! [07:32] change of plan, we're not going to do the contributors manual, instead we're doing something better [08:34] humphreybc: thought of something else for that LP translations thing [08:59] morning [09:01] o/ [09:04] dutchie: sort of, will keep thinking and I'll have something more concrete after UDS [09:04] (oh no it's nothing to do with translations) [09:05] I meant I did [09:05] could be useful to be able to get a list of everyone who's contributed a translation [09:06] oh righto [09:06] true [09:07] let's add our ideas to this [09:07] http://pad.ubuntu-uk.org/UMPtranslations [09:13] * popey waves [09:14] hey Alan [09:14] you're up way too early for a Sunday [09:14] the taxi column is "I am willing/able to share" as opposed to "I have made my own arrangements" [09:14] i have kids [09:15] been up for over an hour [09:15] Cool, vish, you get that? [09:15] watching the GP whilst making bacon sarnies [09:15] Martin and I are on the same plane from London which is nice, so we're going to catch the train [09:15] I think I'm rooming with him too [09:15] plane from london to..? [09:15] ah yes, kids, of course [09:15] brussels [09:15] ah, and train from there [09:16] yeah [09:16] it's like 9 euro and a few minutes walk to train, opposed to like 50 euro for a taxi [09:16] or so the wiki reckons :P [09:17] popey: thanks :) [09:19] humphreybc: i was actually thinking of using the train too.. would be nice to have a look around ;) [09:19] yeah [09:20] absolutely [09:20] is anyone keen to go and have a look at the musical instruments museum? [09:20] Martin and I might go along on Saturday [09:20] we go out for dinner each night, right popey? [09:23] where is the uds?# [09:23] http://www.dolce-la-hulpe-brussels-hotel.com/ [09:24] so in brussels [09:24] yea [09:24] what were you in Brussels for recently dutchie? [09:24] never actually been to brussels [09:24] i spent 4 days rowing in gent [09:24] ah, rowing in belgium. gotcha [09:25] I can't wait to see some old architecture [09:25] NZ is a really new country (<200 years old) so we don't have a lot of grand old buildings down here [09:25] sounds distinctly usanian, that [09:25] humphreybc: not always [09:25] there are a few events organised [09:25] but often it's just people get together and say 'lets go out' [09:25] one of the problems is the number of people [09:25] oh nice, such as? I know there is stuff on the friday like the all stars (which i'm hopefully going to be playing drums for) [09:25] if everyone goes out together we'll never find a restaurant big enough [09:26] this is cool: http://www.wmagazine.com/images/travel/2008/11/trar_brussels_02.jpg [09:26] in seville we went to a castle/museum [09:26] in SFO we went to the computer history museum [09:26] where were the last 6 UDS'? [09:27] sevilla, boston, barcelona, texas, san francisco, prague [09:27] not in that order [09:27] Prague would have been cool [09:27] prague's nice [09:27] so where's UDS-N going to be... USA... [09:27] it usually alternates between europe and usa, yes [09:28] One in Canada would be neat [09:28] so the order of those above was sevilla, boston, prague, san francisco, barcelona, texas [09:28] neat [09:29] your pick for UDS-N? [09:29] worcester [09:29] hahahahahaha [09:29] it will already be at least pencilled in [09:29] yeah i'd imagine they'd book a bit in advance [09:29] actually, by then I'll probably be at uni [09:29] finding a decent venue for it is hard [09:29] Montana? [09:29] hey all [09:29] im back [09:30] I was looking at the Dolce chain of hotels before, pretty amazing [09:30] the canonical IS guys go in and take over the internet access, replacing all their access points with ubuntu ones [09:30] http://www.dolce.com/portfolio/portfolio.asp?LangID=1 [09:30] so we get flooded wifi access [09:30] oh really? nice. "Ubuntu ones" are special ones that can handle a tonne of connections? [09:30] hey nisshh back from your holiday! [09:30] well, just well managed ones :) [09:31] haha nice [09:31] * dutchie is reminded of the oggcamp wifi [09:31] and yes, they can cope with 200 odd people in one room [09:31] because the place is booked for a week, right [09:31] two weeks* [09:31] humphreybc: yay! [09:31] "there are two access points. one is the hotel's, which is rubbish. the other is this phone..." [09:31] dutchie: lol [09:31] yeah, my nokia n82 :) [09:31] running joikuspot [09:31] haha, so dutchie and popey, you've met? [09:32] ya [09:32] nice [09:32] cool [09:32] (they both live in the UK, unlike us nisshh) :P [09:32] i have met 5 people in this channel [09:32] humphreybc: hows the manual coming? [09:32] cool, who? [09:32] hehe [09:32] not me [09:33] dave, dutchie, issy, jussi, pleia [09:33] nisshh: have a look for yourself :P not a lot has changed since the freeze, just working on translations [09:33] neat [09:33] * dutchie got 4 out of 5 [09:33] issy lives about 1 mile from me [09:33] small world :) [09:33] there is only one other person in NZ going to UDS [09:33] a Canonical employee from Auckland, I believe [09:33] poms are strange :) [09:33] * dutchie and popey have a nice long car journey to bond in soon :) [09:34] Tim (thum per) was going to go but I don't think he is now [09:34] the only other person I've met in person through Ubuntu is Tim, who lives in Dunedin [09:34] dutchie: you guys going someplace? [09:34] oggcamp 10 [09:34] oh neat [09:34] when's that? [09:34] i would go to oggcamp if i lived in the UK [09:34] weekend of may 1st [09:35] nisshh: heh, same here [09:35] * humphreybc probably should have gone to LCA when it was in Wellington [09:35] ooo dutchie that reminds me! [09:35] dutchie: do you have a laptop with optical drive? [09:35] maybe [09:35] it's not in a very good way [09:35] we're going to spend the journey burning Lucid CDs :) [09:35] wonderful [09:36] hahahaha! how long's the car trip? [09:36] Al has an inverter in his car so we can keep laptops charged, and burn a load of CDs [09:36] my psu exploded [09:36] http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=FQ-yDgMdlkX0_yk7diSEwip0SDGqNq3it-vKNA%3BFdn7LgMd0o_S_ym3YHBkit96SDEBbhc_bwTcQg&q=gu14+to+liverpool&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=21.771205,29.663086&ie=UTF8&z=8&saddr=gu14&daddr=liverpool [09:36] 4 hours [09:36] that's not too bad [09:36] oh nice it's in Liverpool [09:36] might be a bit longer going via worcester [09:37] so popey, you live in Farnborough? [09:37] ya [09:37] great, ever been to the Farnborough Air Show? [09:37] yes [09:37] * humphreybc is jealous [09:37] dont often need to given they fly over my hosue [09:37] house* [09:37] * humphreybc is even more jealous [09:38] wow, Ivanka commutes from Brighton each day. that's ages away. [09:38] nah [09:38] direct line from brighton to victoria [09:38] not bad [09:38] okay [09:41] brb [09:44] popey: I see you're on the same train as Alan Bell, that'll be good [09:46] did anyone look at my proposals for the social media buttons on our site? [09:46] yes [09:46] top, or left? [09:46] er, train [09:46] i mean [09:46] right [09:46] oh [09:46] hahaha [09:46] what a hilarious misunderstanding [09:46] http://carfax.org.uk/node/73 [09:47] Alan Bell on the left, Me on the right, Alan Lord in the middle [09:47] the 3 alans? [09:47] like the three stooges haha [09:47] :D [09:47] http://thealans.com [09:47] oh for the love of [09:47] we discussed it and couldn't decide what to make them look like, I also commented that the website looks realy clean and it would clutter it. We could have a more info page with them on ( humphreybc ) [09:48] hmm. I want the social buttons to be available across all pages [09:48] Alan and open source go hand in hand, obviously [09:48] thorwill pointed out that with out writing facebook wiki irc on icons it would be hard for people to work out what they were [09:49] we're not going to have a link to irc or the wiki [09:49] just facebook, twitter, the planet and ubuntu.com [09:49] facebook and twitter are fairly obvious [09:49] you're right [09:49] that was in the list mentioned yesterday by daker [09:50] but i don't want to clutter it even more with words [09:50] yeah i changed my mind :P [09:50] the list here http://ubuntu-manual.org/ is fine really [09:50] yeah but that page is disappearing soon [09:50] move it to get involved? [09:50] maybe but i kinda want even regular people to know about our social feeds [09:51] cos then they can see updates when we release new products and languages [09:51] true, we will find a home for it [09:51] heh [09:51] we shall [09:52] what do I want from the USA? [09:52] have we got/ can we do an ubuntu-manual release mailing list? people could sign up to it and we only send an e-mail wehn a release is doen? [09:52] that's a grand idea [09:53] we could just do a thing where they punch in their email address and choose a language, then they only get emailed when their language is released [09:53] and for new product releases we could email all languages [09:53] but a release ML could work equally as well [09:54]