[01:45] <doctormo> hi Nono
[02:04] <DiegoTc> ping pleia2
[02:04] <pleia2> DiegoTc: hey
[02:05] <DiegoTc> hi pleia2
[02:05] <DiegoTc> pleia2, there is going to be another ubuntu user days?
[02:05] <pleia2> DiegoTc: yep, join us in #ubuntu-classroom-backstage :)
[02:05] <pleia2> if you'd like, we're actually talking about it now
[16:10] <DiegoTc> ping pleia2
[19:40] <DiegoTc> ping cjohnston  and pleia2
[19:41] <pleia2> hey DiegoTc
[19:41] <DiegoTc> hi pleia2
[19:42] <DiegoTc> pleia2: Want to comment you something, I was talking with some guys from latimamerica about the creation of an ubuntu-learning team (spanish version)
[19:42] <DiegoTc> this way we will try to use the benefits of the team into spanish
[19:43] <pleia2> which part of the learning team? We're now doing three things: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Learning
[19:43] <DiegoTc> right now we have planned to be encharge of the organization of the open week, USD, UDW
[19:43] <pleia2> ah, so the Classroom stuff
[19:44] <pleia2> I think a spanish version sounds great
[19:44] <DiegoTc> pleia2: yeap it would be the Community Teaching (classroom stuff)
[19:44] <pleia2> we're doing most of the organizing for that in #ubuntu-classroom-backstage
[19:44] <DiegoTc> this way we will take advantage of this events for the spanish guys :D
[19:45] <pleia2> yeah, I gave PabloRubianes contacts for each of open week, dev week, etc people
[19:45] <pleia2> he was asking in -beginners-team this morning
[19:45] <DiegoTc> yeap I wrote to them
[19:46] <DiegoTc> Pablo nows about this plan
[19:46] <DiegoTc> pleia2: so when we have created the wiki,lp team and the others things we can add the link to the learning wiki and this way the community will know about it
[19:46] <DiegoTc> D
[19:46] <DiegoTc> :D
[19:48] <DiegoTc> thanks pleia2  for your time
[19:48] <doctormo> DiegoTc: Don't forget to stay involved here, this is the hub for learnign activities, just so different groups can learn from each other.
[19:48] <DiegoTc> doctormo: yeap here you learn great stuffs :D
[19:49] <doctormo> pleia2: Did you get a chance to look at my debian packaging diagram?
[19:51] <pleia2> DiegoTc: maybe put the page together and have us take a look so we put it in the right part of the project? I think your idea is really better suited at wiki.ubuntu.com/Classroom rather than linked directly on Learning
[19:51] <pleia2> but I'm not completely sure
[19:51] <pleia2> doctormo: nope :\
[19:51] <pleia2> doctormo: link?
[19:53] <doctormo> pleia2: http://imagebin.ca/view/MOGt_Tw.html
[19:54] <pleia2> neat
[19:54] <pleia2> who is the audience/
[19:54] <pleia2> ?
[19:59] <doctormo> So far I'm collecting thoughts
[19:59] <doctormo> Eventually though it should make it's way into some sort of quick visual guide for the packing impaired
[20:34] <doctormo> pleia2: This is what I basically want to do: http://imagebin.ca/view/79p58iGb.html
[20:35] <pleia2> doctormo: have you seen some of the others that exist diagramming this?
[20:36] <doctormo> Pardon?
[20:36] <pleia2> http://bp1.blogger.com/_V_eFWvv9a2I/SAEtQdWZevI/AAAAAAAAAdo/TZzsTV6qpWw/s1600-h/Debian-package-cycle.png
[20:36] <pleia2> I think there is another one out there too
[20:36]  * pleia2 digs through notes
[20:42] <doctormo> pleia2: Holy smoke! see that diagram, it'd casperise any rookie
[20:42] <pleia2> oh yes, yours is much simpler and has a different target :)
[20:44] <doctormo> http://imagebin.ca/view/YrEuABH8.html
[20:45] <doctormo> Provoking understanding and documenting are different
[20:45] <doctormo> I keep on trying to tell people this
[20:45] <doctormo> You need lies, little lies, that don't always tell the whole truth
[20:45] <doctormo> But enough to get going and let the reader digg further.
[20:45] <pleia2> oh sure, I wasn't suggesting this was a replacement for yours, I was just exposing you to current ones in case there was anything you felt you needed to incorporate
[20:46]  * pleia2 giggles @ http://mysite.verizon.net/kevin.mark/newdebian2.png
[20:46] <pleia2> if you really want their head to explode!
[20:50] <doctormo> Oh yes, I saw that one
[20:50] <doctormo> :-)(
[20:51] <doctormo> ScottK was explaining how dificult it is to find people to educate about deb packaging, because the skills are HARD and the similification almost imposible.
[20:51] <doctormo> (I wanted to add: "to programmers maybe") :-P
[20:52] <pleia2> honestly most packagers only need to know a snapshot of the process to be successful
[20:52] <pleia2> it's impossible to know everything anyway, so it's terribly overwhelming at first, you just need to understand that you won't become an expert over night, do your best, and ask the right questions when you need to
[20:53]  * pleia2 asks DDs tough questions, and most of them can't answer most of the time and have to dig up docs :)
[20:53] <pleia2> I really thought I was stupid for a while WRT debian packaging, turns out it's just *really hard and complicated* and everyone has trouble
[20:53] <pleia2> once I realized this I was much happier :)
[20:54] <pleia2> (hint: don't compare yourself to westby or watson from day one, or year 3, they are masters)
[20:56] <doctormo> Indeed
[20:56] <doctormo> I gave up on understanding it when I realised hardly anyone else knew either
[20:56] <pleia2> I wouldn't say I gave up, but I did stop beating my head against the wall and let the knowledge trickle in rather than being so agressive about it
[21:49] <doctormo> Ah well, I gave up on active persuite, I assumed the know how would come to me in the fullness of time.
[22:13] <doctormo> pleia2: http://divajutta.com/doctormo/learning/deb.pdf
[22:37] <pleia2> doctormo: looks good so far, but it's sad that the diagram still looks so complicated at first glance
[22:39] <pleia2> I might use something even simpler for the contents page