| === dyfet` is now known as dyfet | ||
| === The_Toxic_Mi1e is now known as The_Toxic_Mite | ||
| === \vish is now known as vish | ||
| === kirkland` is now known as kirkland | ||
| === wet-chan is now known as wet | ||
| === cjohnston is now known as cjohnston|uds | ||
| === cjohnston|uds is now known as cjohnston | ||
| === MikeB is now known as Technoviking | ||
| === unimix_ is now known as unimix|work | ||
| showard | showard is here for motu-reception meeting | 16:05 |
|---|---|---|
| BlackZ | showard: there's a meeting? | 16:09 |
| BlackZ | ah, yes, you're right | 16:10 |
| BlackZ | :) | 16:10 |
| RoAkSoAx | o/ | 16:10 |
| showard | Hey | 16:10 |
| RoAkSoAx | showard, i guess nobody else is around just yet | 16:11 |
| BlackZ | wasn't it at 15:00 UTC ? | 16:11 |
| BlackZ | huats: ping | 16:13 |
| huats | I am here | 16:13 |
| BlackZ | huats: wasn't the meeting at 15:00 UTC? | 16:14 |
| BlackZ | as I can read in the e-mail | 16:14 |
| huats | it was | 16:14 |
| huats | and it is crazyness here :) | 16:14 |
| huats | give me 5 minutes | 16:14 |
| huats | sorry showard... | 16:14 |
| BlackZ | huats: sure | 16:14 |
| BlackZ | no problem | 16:14 |
| huats | I am here | 16:17 |
| huats | BlackZ, RoAkSoAx, showard sorry I am late | 16:18 |
| huats | I am ready to begin | 16:18 |
| RoAkSoAx | huats, its ok, we all understand :) | 16:18 |
| huats | so you are now all members of the mailing list | 16:19 |
| showard | hey np, I can stay as long i can, but I may have to leave abruptly (sorry in advance!) | 16:19 |
| huats | I have added you yesterday | 16:19 |
| huats | showard, no pb | 16:19 |
| huats | you should have all received an notice of that | 16:20 |
| huats | if it is not the case check your spam filter :) | 16:20 |
| RoAkSoAx | huats, i dont think I have | 16:20 |
| huats | BlackZ, showard have you seen it ? | 16:20 |
| BlackZ | huats: yeah | 16:20 |
| RoAkSoAx | huats, its gone already :S | 16:21 |
| BlackZ | huats: which is the mailing list? | 16:21 |
| RoAkSoAx | huats, its gone already) | 16:21 |
| showard | I don't think I got anything, don't see anything in the spam | 16:22 |
| huats | motu-mentoring-reception@reponses.net | 16:22 |
| BlackZ | huats: wait a moment | 16:22 |
| RoAkSoAx | huats, i was thinking, wouldn't it be easier to just use the ML of the launchpad team? | 16:22 |
| RoAkSoAx | whenever someone sends a message we can review it and approve it | 16:23 |
| huats | RoAkSoAx, the thing is that so far the mailing list is not private | 16:23 |
| huats | and this is something needs to be private | 16:23 |
| BlackZ | huats: I have just received an e-mail from you: "You should have been subscribed to the mailing list now." | 16:23 |
| BlackZ | but anything from motu-mentoring-reception@reponses.net | 16:23 |
| huats | we already had in the past mentors saying : I don't want this mentee... | 16:23 |
| huats | that is why I think we should keep that privatly | 16:24 |
| showard | ahh ok, that makes sense | 16:24 |
| BlackZ | I'm agree with huats | 16:24 |
| huats | and the mailing list is on LP is not private yet | 16:25 |
| RoAkSoAx | huats, ok | 16:25 |
| huats | (we need to see that with jcastro one day, but I wanted to talk with you before doing anything related to the mentoring) | 16:25 |
| huats | I have sent you right now an email on the mailing list please let me know if you receive it | 16:27 |
| RoAkSoAx | huats, i haven't (and I've had problems with that email for ages) | 16:28 |
| huats | RoAkSoAx, which email you mean ? | 16:29 |
| BlackZ | huats: not yet | 16:29 |
| showard | not yet | 16:29 |
| RoAkSoAx | huats, the ML | 16:29 |
| huats | RoAkSoAx, but it is working :( | 16:29 |
| huats | I have received it :( | 16:30 |
| BlackZ | huats: so that's strange | 16:30 |
| BlackZ | I don't think it's a server-related problem | 16:30 |
| RoAkSoAx | huats, weird :S :/ | 16:30 |
| huats | well I'll figure that later | 16:30 |
| huats | let's focus on the meeting a bit | 16:30 |
| BlackZ | yeah, can we start it? | 16:31 |
| huats | showard, I think your email was great | 16:33 |
| huats | it sums up very well the idea | 16:33 |
| RoAkSoAx | huats, nevermind i just got it at @ubuntu-pe.org | 16:35 |
| showard | me too | 16:35 |
| huats | ok great | 16:35 |
| huats | they were bloked somewhere :( | 16:35 |
| BlackZ | I haven't | 16:36 |
| BlackZ | hmm.. | 16:36 |
| RoAkSoAx | ok so, we now have the wikipage that i'd sugggest we should use from now on to track the agenda of every meeting | 16:37 |
| BlackZ | RoAkSoAx: yeah, that'd be great | 16:38 |
| huats | it's great indeed ! | 16:38 |
| RoAkSoAx | ok, any new discussion item? | 16:39 |
| showard | Should we go over the points in my email? | 16:39 |
| huats | showard, go ahead | 16:40 |
| RoAkSoAx | showard, lets start with tracking new mentings in bugs. I give a +1 to your approach | 16:41 |
| RoAkSoAx | s/mentings/mentees | 16:41 |
| huats | RoAkSoAx, I agree too | 16:42 |
| BlackZ | +1 | 16:42 |
| showard | (OK RoAK), going down the list in order to make sure we don't get ahead of ourselves: Do we agree on the "overall" goal of motu-reception | 16:42 |
| showard | we're the coordination point between a pool of mentors and potential developers. Should we drop the "MOTU" from our name? | 16:43 |
| huats | I agree on the goal | 16:44 |
| RoAkSoAx | +1 with the goal. | 16:44 |
| BlackZ | sure, +1 from me too | 16:44 |
| huats | showard, I think MOTU is still widely 'know' | 16:44 |
| huats | I'd be in favor of keeping it | 16:44 |
| showard | ok, we can keep the name - but realistically we are for all developers, not just "motu" | 16:44 |
| RoAkSoAx | showard, yes we should keep MOTU, since due to archive reorganization, MOTU will be for those unseeded packages | 16:44 |
| showard | or are we just for motu | 16:45 |
| huats | We are for developpers | 16:45 |
| BlackZ | I'd say to keep the name surely - agree with huats | 16:45 |
| huats | and since MOTU is one of that steps... | 16:45 |
| showard | ok, name can stay - but we are for all developers. I think MOTU will be taken out of the "steps" and become one of the ways a developer can join | 16:46 |
| ScottK | One of the points in the last UDS discussion about future of MOTU was that all development teams should be responsible for new developers, not just MOTU. | 16:46 |
| showard | Yes ,what ScottK said - that's why I think we should not be just motu - but the contact point for all teams | 16:46 |
| showard | and to distribute it | 16:46 |
| huats | so how would you name it : Ubuntu Developpers Mentoring Reception ? | 16:47 |
| RoAkSoAx | huats, Ubuntu Development Mentoring Reception | 16:48 |
| showard | Sure, the Ubuntu Developers Mentoring Program (we are the reception for it). This is a change from before, since we'd have to get the other teams on board as well (we'll need mentors from each team to be responsible for training their members) | 16:48 |
| huats | OK then for me | 16:49 |
| RoAkSoAx | what we can do is use the general mentoring for MOTU and specific mentoring for any of the teams | 16:49 |
| showard | while anyone can do "general" training, individual teams will be responsible for the "senior" training of their own members | 16:49 |
| showard | exactly roak | 16:49 |
| showard | MOTU can also be one of the senior teams | 16:50 |
| BlackZ | agree, that's ok | 16:50 |
| RoAkSoAx | ok so I think that's the way we should go then | 16:51 |
| showard | Ok, we'll put these ideas up on the wiki page to to make sure we keep track of it | 16:51 |
| BlackZ | huats: we should rename the mailing list then | 16:51 |
| showard | hauts: how involved would you like to be, because we can take over admin stuff if you just want to "consult" since you have the experience | 16:52 |
| huats | showard, I'd like to be involved | 16:52 |
| showard | great! | 16:52 |
| huats | but I have no idea how much I can spend... | 16:52 |
| showard | (I sometimes rope people into doing things they don't want to - just want to make sure!) | 16:52 |
| huats | but count on me for that | 16:53 |
| ScottK | showard: Don't be shy, roping people into things they don't want to do is an essential element of open source management. | 16:53 |
| showard | before getting new email addresses, we should work out the details of what the program will look like and have some potential team people look it over before changing addresses. I think | 16:54 |
| showard | ScottK: ha, good advice | 16:54 |
| BlackZ | showard: sure, for now we can keep it | 16:54 |
| showard | If mentors and teams say it won't work, we'd have to change our thinking | 16:54 |
| showard | Ok, moving on: Work flow | 16:55 |
| showard | -interested person contacts reception | 16:55 |
| showard | -reception acknowledges contact | 16:55 |
| showard | -reception organizes or points mentees to "general" training | 16:55 |
| showard | (packaging training sessions) classes with all new junior level | 16:55 |
| showard | members that need it (connects mentees and whoever is running the | 16:55 |
| showard | general training) | 16:55 |
| showard | -pair mentees with "general" mentors | 16:55 |
| showard | -when a mentee is ready reception connects individual with the team | 16:55 |
| showard | they are interested in. | 16:55 |
| showard | I think it's pretty basic and exactly what we said last time, does that make sense? Any comments? | 16:56 |
| huats | showard, indeed that matches what we said | 16:57 |
| RoAkSoAx | indeed | 16:57 |
| showard | ok, hauts: what's it like getting mentors, is it easy - are there enough? | 16:57 |
| huats | showard, it is not that easy usually | 16:58 |
| huats | we were always at the gap | 16:58 |
| huats | but it was OK | 16:58 |
| huats | now we should see how it goes with the new teams | 16:58 |
| RoAkSoAx | huats, i think we should keep tracking of mentors by having "Available mentors in US TImezones", "No Mentors Available in Europe timezones" | 16:59 |
| showard | What if we only need a few mentors to actually be on IRC for the packaging training, and the rest are by email or by appointment on IRC (kind of how bug control does it) | 16:59 |
| huats | showard, I would prefer to avoid appointment on IRC, since I would encourage the usage of #ubuntu-motu | 17:00 |
| huats | RoAkSoAx, It is need to have the timezone for any mentors and mentees | 17:00 |
| showard | yes, using #ubuntu-motu is better - this might be a better question hauts: what do the mentors do? | 17:01 |
| huats | but showard once again it is just my idea (even if I know that ScottK will second me for the usage of ubuntu-motu) | 17:01 |
| showard | (I meant by appointment on #ubuntu-motu) | 17:01 |
| BlackZ | huats: I'd suggest to do a "calendar" when the mentee assigned is available, and say there when they aren't available | 17:02 |
| huats | showard, well a mentor is here to introduce the way of thinking that is used on Ubuntu | 17:02 |
| huats | and to tell them : ok you are going to work on Kde for that stuff, then talk to ScottK | 17:02 |
| huats | also to lift the various questions mentees might have... | 17:03 |
| huats | sometimes people are afraid of speaking on IRC | 17:03 |
| showard | ok, so it's not so much teaching technical skills but instead instroducing to a community | 17:03 |
| huats | on a public channel | 17:03 |
| RoAkSoAx | huats, yeah but I'd prefer to send that mentee with enough knowledge to already start working on stuff without having the specific mentor to teach the basics of packaging | 17:03 |
| huats | well the technicals basics would be covered by the sessions :) | 17:04 |
| huats | otherwise that depends a lot of the mentee | 17:04 |
| ScottK | Honestly if you have people who can't ask questions on IRC in a channel, they aren't going to work out. | 17:05 |
| ScottK | You're better off finding out sooner rather than later. | 17:05 |
| RoAkSoAx | ScottK, +1 | 17:05 |
| ScottK | Ubuntu IRC channels are very friendly and by working on private, you damage the new contributor's integration into the community. | 17:05 |
| ScottK | Also mentors aren't perfect. | 17:06 |
| ScottK | If they are working with their mentees in public, if they make a mistake it can be immediately corrected. | 17:06 |
| ScottK | Also other people in the channel learn from the discussion. | 17:06 |
| BlackZ | agree with ScottK | 17:06 |
| showard | Ok, IRC should be an important part of mentoring then | 17:06 |
| ScottK | Really I think that private mentoring should be extremely rare and highly discouraged. | 17:06 |
| ScottK | It's not consistent with our cultures and values as an open project. | 17:07 |
| RoAkSoAx | +1 | 17:07 |
| RoAkSoAx | (amen) | 17:07 |
| ScottK | I have said in the past and continue to believe we're better off with no formal mentoring process than one that works in private. | 17:08 |
| huats | ScottK, I'd see the mentoring like someone who is following your steps a bit | 17:08 |
| huats | like a prefered referal | 17:08 |
| huats | but not someone who is here to answer all you questions | 17:08 |
| huats | +r | 17:08 |
| RoAkSoAx | indeed | 17:08 |
| showard | Ok, so formall mentoring should be done in public, IRC - I agree | 17:09 |
| showard | Moving on to the next point: mentee tracking implimentation | 17:09 |
| showard | I think earlier people liked the idea of LP bugs for mentees, but what do you think of this small change to what I wrote in the email: | 17:10 |
| RoAkSoAx | sorry guys but I have to run. | 17:10 |
| showard | ok, we can stop here | 17:10 |
| huats | RoAkSoAx, ok | 17:11 |
| huats | showard, as you like | 17:11 |
| huats | may be you can expose your idea and RoAkSoAx will comment them on the minutes ? | 17:11 |
| showard | ah sorry | 17:12 |
| showard | This is the example from the email:project owned by motu-reception | 17:12 |
| showard | where each applicant is a bug report (DM way) | 17:12 |
| showard | LP example: | 17:12 |
| showard | Mentee files a bug against a project owned by motu-reception. This can | 17:12 |
| showard | be private (why is it private, what private information is there?) | 17:12 |
| showard | -"NEW" = unprocessed | 17:12 |
| showard | -"Incomplete" = needs to attend a packaging training session | 17:12 |
| showard | -"Complete"=currently in the "general" mentorship program | 17:12 |
| showard | -"Triaged"=currently in the "specialized" mentorship program | 17:12 |
| showard | -"Fix Released"=done with program | 17:12 |
| showard | -"Won't fix"=lost contact with, not in program | 17:12 |
| showard | -"Assigned to"=mentor | 17:12 |
| showard | What if "complete" means that they are qualified for "general" training | 17:13 |
| showard | and then we can tell mentors to "shop" through the list of "complete" unassigned or "triaged" unassigned bugs | 17:13 |
| showard | to see if there are people they recognize from sponsoring packages, etc - then assign themselvs to the bug | 17:14 |
| Daviey | Would motu-reception be compulsory, or is it an extra method to help people into the team? Ie, can the exisiting method still be used? | 17:15 |
| showard | After packaging trainging (when a mentee goes to "complete"), they can do merges, syncs, small fixes, FTBFS, rebuilds, etc. -- and "build" a reputation for themselves, then get picked by a mentee | 17:15 |
| showard | Not compulsory | 17:15 |
| huats | Daviey, nothing is compulsory | 17:15 |
| Daviey | showard: thanks. | 17:15 |
| Daviey | huats: well no, but i mean't - would they have to do this process to join motu.. Breathing isn't compulsory :) | 17:16 |
| huats | Remember to ask you not to breah for a while next time we cross :) | 17:16 |
| showard | My concern is finding enough mentors, and if you can let people shop around - someone might do it that might not have normally if the recognize someone that they sponsored | 17:16 |
| showard | Daviey: you can still join motu normally | 17:17 |
| huats | showard, I am not very confortable with the idea of letting the mentors pick the mentee | 17:17 |
| huats | actually we were quite strict in avoiding people from the same country or the same mother language | 17:17 |
| huats | to push people to use english | 17:17 |
| huats | and I think it is something to persue | 17:18 |
| showard | ok, that makes sense - we can think about it over the week | 17:18 |
| BlackZ | agree with huats | 17:18 |
| showard | In that case we can summarize what we said today on the wiki, and come up with an agenda for next week | 17:19 |
| huats | yep | 17:20 |
| BlackZ | yeah | 17:20 |
| BlackZ | ok, something to discuss again? can we stop here? | 17:22 |
| showard | Thanks all, i'll post it on the wiki and send an email for you all to check it out (and next weeks agenda) | 17:22 |
| showard | I think we can stop here | 17:22 |
| BlackZ | OK, thanks all | 17:22 |
| showard | have a good week! | 17:22 |
| BlackZ | showard: thanks, you too! :) | 17:23 |
| huats | thanks guys ! | 17:26 |
| === unimix_ is now known as unimix|work | ||
| jdstrand | hi all! | 18:07 |
| jjohansen | hi | 18:08 |
| mdeslaur | hi jdstrand, jjohansen | 18:08 |
| mdeslaur | and everyone else! :) | 18:08 |
| * kees joins from laggy tmobile network along train route :) | 18:09 | |
| mdeslaur | oh, hehe, hi kees! | 18:09 |
| jdstrand | ah cool | 18:09 |
| kees | heya! :) | 18:09 |
| mdeslaur | kees: Can you hear me now? | 18:09 |
| jdstrand | kees: do you usually do a #startmeeting? | 18:09 |
| kees | heheh | 18:09 |
| kees | jdstrand: I haven't, no, but we probably should | 18:09 |
| jdstrand | #startmeeting | 18:09 |
| MootBot | Meeting started at 12:09. The chair is jdstrand. | 18:09 |
| MootBot | Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] | 18:09 |
| jdstrand | hehe | 18:10 |
| kees | regardless, I shouldn't chair since the next tunnel will drop me. ;) | 18:10 |
| jdstrand | I'm chair cause kees is on vacation! :P | 18:10 |
| jdstrand | kees: since you are here, why don't you go first? | 18:10 |
| mdeslaur | jdstrand: do you feel powerful with all those commands at your disposal? :) | 18:10 |
| jdstrand | I would, if I knew what to do with them :P | 18:10 |
| kees | let's see. I'm hoping to do more ISO testing, work our release checklist, and look for low-hanging fruit | 18:11 |
| kees | since that took 2 minutes to send over the network, I will stop there. :P | 18:12 |
| mdeslaur | ok, my turn | 18:12 |
| mdeslaur | I'm on triage this week | 18:12 |
| jdstrand | kees: thanks :) | 18:12 |
| mdeslaur | and will probably release ffmpeg updates todat | 18:12 |
| mdeslaur | s/todat/today/ | 18:12 |
| mdeslaur | I'll do some iso testing, and will pick something from the CVE list | 18:13 |
| mdeslaur | I'm done | 18:13 |
| jdstrand | I plan to fix an irssi upstream regression today (small), then publish netpbm and kdebase-workspace (for kdm) | 18:14 |
| jdstrand | I imagine the kdm testing will take a little while, so it might not go out until tomorrow | 18:15 |
| jdstrand | then ISO testing and install audits | 18:15 |
| jdstrand | (install audits got pushed back again, due to updates/vacations/etc) | 18:15 |
| jdstrand | I think we should all make a concerted effort to make sure lucid is up to date and accurate in UCT | 18:16 |
| jdstrand | (it's one of our unspoken release tasks) | 18:16 |
| mdeslaur | agreed | 18:16 |
| jdstrand | other than that, I'm done | 18:16 |
| mdeslaur | I'll take a look at that also | 18:16 |
| jdstrand | mdeslaur: cool thanks-- I fixed a few things last week, but didn't get a chance to focus on it | 18:18 |
| jdstrand | anything else? | 18:18 |
| mdeslaur | jdstrand: not from me | 18:18 |
| jdstrand | any questions for the security team? | 18:18 |
| mdeslaur | we also welcome complaints and/or donuts | 18:19 |
| jdstrand | s#complaints and/or ## | 18:19 |
| jdstrand | :) | 18:19 |
| mdeslaur | hehe | 18:19 |
| jdstrand | ok. thanks everyone! | 18:19 |
| jdstrand | #endmeeting | 18:19 |
| MootBot | Meeting finished at 12:19. | 18:19 |
| ScottK | Don't forget some self congratuatlions about Ubuntu Server admins not shooting themselves in the head over clamav last week. | 18:20 |
| === yofel_ is now known as yofel | ||
| afterlastangel | so, when will it begin? | 21:04 |
| stk_ | we are waiting here :-) | 21:05 |
| === RoAkSoAx is now known as RoAk | ||
| === RoAkSoAx_ is now known as RoAkSoAx | ||
| === RoAkSoAx_ is now known as RoAk | ||
| === RoAk is now known as RoAkSoAx | ||
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