=== dyfet` is now known as dyfet === The_Toxic_Mi1e is now known as The_Toxic_Mite === \vish is now known as vish === kirkland` is now known as kirkland === wet-chan is now known as wet === cjohnston is now known as cjohnston|uds === cjohnston|uds is now known as cjohnston === MikeB is now known as Technoviking === unimix_ is now known as unimix|work [16:05] showard is here for motu-reception meeting [16:09] showard: there's a meeting? [16:10] ah, yes, you're right [16:10] :) [16:10] o/ [16:10] Hey [16:11] showard, i guess nobody else is around just yet [16:11] wasn't it at 15:00 UTC ? [16:13] huats: ping [16:13] I am here [16:14] huats: wasn't the meeting at 15:00 UTC? [16:14] as I can read in the e-mail [16:14] it was [16:14] and it is crazyness here :) [16:14] give me 5 minutes [16:14] sorry showard... [16:14] huats: sure [16:14] no problem [16:17] I am here [16:18] BlackZ, RoAkSoAx, showard sorry I am late [16:18] I am ready to begin [16:18] huats, its ok, we all understand :) [16:19] so you are now all members of the mailing list [16:19] hey np, I can stay as long i can, but I may have to leave abruptly (sorry in advance!) [16:19] I have added you yesterday [16:19] showard, no pb [16:20] you should have all received an notice of that [16:20] if it is not the case check your spam filter :) [16:20] huats, i dont think I have [16:20] BlackZ, showard have you seen it ? [16:20] huats: yeah [16:21] huats, its gone already :S [16:21] huats: which is the mailing list? [16:21] huats, its gone already) [16:22] I don't think I got anything, don't see anything in the spam [16:22] motu-mentoring-reception@reponses.net [16:22] huats: wait a moment [16:22] huats, i was thinking, wouldn't it be easier to just use the ML of the launchpad team? [16:23] whenever someone sends a message we can review it and approve it [16:23] RoAkSoAx, the thing is that so far the mailing list is not private [16:23] and this is something needs to be private [16:23] huats: I have just received an e-mail from you: "You should have been subscribed to the mailing list now." [16:23] but anything from motu-mentoring-reception@reponses.net [16:23] we already had in the past mentors saying : I don't want this mentee... [16:24] that is why I think we should keep that privatly [16:24] ahh ok, that makes sense [16:24] I'm agree with huats [16:25] and the mailing list is on LP is not private yet [16:25] huats, ok [16:25] (we need to see that with jcastro one day, but I wanted to talk with you before doing anything related to the mentoring) [16:27] I have sent you right now an email on the mailing list please let me know if you receive it [16:28] huats, i haven't (and I've had problems with that email for ages) [16:29] RoAkSoAx, which email you mean ? [16:29] huats: not yet [16:29] not yet [16:29] huats, the ML [16:29] RoAkSoAx, but it is working :( [16:30] I have received it :( [16:30] huats: so that's strange [16:30] I don't think it's a server-related problem [16:30] huats, weird :S :/ [16:30] well I'll figure that later [16:30] let's focus on the meeting a bit [16:31] yeah, can we start it? [16:33] showard, I think your email was great [16:33] it sums up very well the idea [16:35] huats, nevermind i just got it at @ubuntu-pe.org [16:35] me too [16:35] ok great [16:35] they were bloked somewhere :( [16:36] I haven't [16:36] hmm.. [16:37] ok so, we now have the wikipage that i'd sugggest we should use from now on to track the agenda of every meeting [16:38] RoAkSoAx: yeah, that'd be great [16:38] it's great indeed ! [16:39] ok, any new discussion item? [16:39] Should we go over the points in my email? [16:40] showard, go ahead [16:41] showard, lets start with tracking new mentings in bugs. I give a +1 to your approach [16:41] s/mentings/mentees [16:42] RoAkSoAx, I agree too [16:42] +1 [16:42] (OK RoAK), going down the list in order to make sure we don't get ahead of ourselves: Do we agree on the "overall" goal of motu-reception [16:43] we're the coordination point between a pool of mentors and potential developers. Should we drop the "MOTU" from our name? [16:44] I agree on the goal [16:44] +1 with the goal. [16:44] sure, +1 from me too [16:44] showard, I think MOTU is still widely 'know' [16:44] I'd be in favor of keeping it [16:44] ok, we can keep the name - but realistically we are for all developers, not just "motu" [16:44] showard, yes we should keep MOTU, since due to archive reorganization, MOTU will be for those unseeded packages [16:45] or are we just for motu [16:45] We are for developpers [16:45] I'd say to keep the name surely - agree with huats [16:45] and since MOTU is one of that steps... [16:46] ok, name can stay - but we are for all developers. I think MOTU will be taken out of the "steps" and become one of the ways a developer can join [16:46] One of the points in the last UDS discussion about future of MOTU was that all development teams should be responsible for new developers, not just MOTU. [16:46] Yes ,what ScottK said - that's why I think we should not be just motu - but the contact point for all teams [16:46] and to distribute it [16:47] so how would you name it : Ubuntu Developpers Mentoring Reception ? [16:48] huats, Ubuntu Development Mentoring Reception [16:48] Sure, the Ubuntu Developers Mentoring Program (we are the reception for it). This is a change from before, since we'd have to get the other teams on board as well (we'll need mentors from each team to be responsible for training their members) [16:49] OK then for me [16:49] what we can do is use the general mentoring for MOTU and specific mentoring for any of the teams [16:49] while anyone can do "general" training, individual teams will be responsible for the "senior" training of their own members [16:49] exactly roak [16:50] MOTU can also be one of the senior teams [16:50] agree, that's ok [16:51] ok so I think that's the way we should go then [16:51] Ok, we'll put these ideas up on the wiki page to to make sure we keep track of it [16:51] huats: we should rename the mailing list then [16:52] hauts: how involved would you like to be, because we can take over admin stuff if you just want to "consult" since you have the experience [16:52] showard, I'd like to be involved [16:52] great! [16:52] but I have no idea how much I can spend... [16:52] (I sometimes rope people into doing things they don't want to - just want to make sure!) [16:53] but count on me for that [16:53] showard: Don't be shy, roping people into things they don't want to do is an essential element of open source management. [16:54] before getting new email addresses, we should work out the details of what the program will look like and have some potential team people look it over before changing addresses. I think [16:54] ScottK: ha, good advice [16:54] showard: sure, for now we can keep it [16:54] If mentors and teams say it won't work, we'd have to change our thinking [16:55] Ok, moving on: Work flow [16:55] -interested person contacts reception [16:55] -reception acknowledges contact [16:55] -reception organizes or points mentees to "general" training [16:55] (packaging training sessions) classes with all new junior level [16:55] members that need it (connects mentees and whoever is running the [16:55] general training) [16:55] -pair mentees with "general" mentors [16:55] -when a mentee is ready reception connects individual with the team [16:55] they are interested in. [16:56] I think it's pretty basic and exactly what we said last time, does that make sense? Any comments? [16:57] showard, indeed that matches what we said [16:57] indeed [16:57] ok, hauts: what's it like getting mentors, is it easy - are there enough? [16:58] showard, it is not that easy usually [16:58] we were always at the gap [16:58] but it was OK [16:58] now we should see how it goes with the new teams [16:59] huats, i think we should keep tracking of mentors by having "Available mentors in US TImezones", "No Mentors Available in Europe timezones" [16:59] What if we only need a few mentors to actually be on IRC for the packaging training, and the rest are by email or by appointment on IRC (kind of how bug control does it) [17:00] showard, I would prefer to avoid appointment on IRC, since I would encourage the usage of #ubuntu-motu [17:00] RoAkSoAx, It is need to have the timezone for any mentors and mentees [17:01] yes, using #ubuntu-motu is better - this might be a better question hauts: what do the mentors do? [17:01] but showard once again it is just my idea (even if I know that ScottK will second me for the usage of ubuntu-motu) [17:01] (I meant by appointment on #ubuntu-motu) [17:02] huats: I'd suggest to do a "calendar" when the mentee assigned is available, and say there when they aren't available [17:02] showard, well a mentor is here to introduce the way of thinking that is used on Ubuntu [17:02] and to tell them : ok you are going to work on Kde for that stuff, then talk to ScottK [17:03] also to lift the various questions mentees might have... [17:03] sometimes people are afraid of speaking on IRC [17:03] ok, so it's not so much teaching technical skills but instead instroducing to a community [17:03] on a public channel [17:03] huats, yeah but I'd prefer to send that mentee with enough knowledge to already start working on stuff without having the specific mentor to teach the basics of packaging [17:04] well the technicals basics would be covered by the sessions :) [17:04] otherwise that depends a lot of the mentee [17:05] Honestly if you have people who can't ask questions on IRC in a channel, they aren't going to work out. [17:05] You're better off finding out sooner rather than later. [17:05] ScottK, +1 [17:05] Ubuntu IRC channels are very friendly and by working on private, you damage the new contributor's integration into the community. [17:06] Also mentors aren't perfect. [17:06] If they are working with their mentees in public, if they make a mistake it can be immediately corrected. [17:06] Also other people in the channel learn from the discussion. [17:06] agree with ScottK [17:06] Ok, IRC should be an important part of mentoring then [17:06] Really I think that private mentoring should be extremely rare and highly discouraged. [17:07] It's not consistent with our cultures and values as an open project. [17:07] +1 [17:07] (amen) [17:08] I have said in the past and continue to believe we're better off with no formal mentoring process than one that works in private. [17:08] ScottK, I'd see the mentoring like someone who is following your steps a bit [17:08] like a prefered referal [17:08] but not someone who is here to answer all you questions [17:08] +r [17:08] indeed [17:09] Ok, so formall mentoring should be done in public, IRC - I agree [17:09] Moving on to the next point: mentee tracking implimentation [17:10] I think earlier people liked the idea of LP bugs for mentees, but what do you think of this small change to what I wrote in the email: [17:10] sorry guys but I have to run. [17:10] ok, we can stop here [17:11] RoAkSoAx, ok [17:11] showard, as you like [17:11] may be you can expose your idea and RoAkSoAx will comment them on the minutes ? [17:12] ah sorry [17:12] This is the example from the email:project owned by motu-reception [17:12] where each applicant is a bug report (DM way) [17:12] LP example: [17:12] Mentee files a bug against a project owned by motu-reception. This can [17:12] be private (why is it private, what private information is there?) [17:12] -"NEW" = unprocessed [17:12] -"Incomplete" = needs to attend a packaging training session [17:12] -"Complete"=currently in the "general" mentorship program [17:12] -"Triaged"=currently in the "specialized" mentorship program [17:12] -"Fix Released"=done with program [17:12] -"Won't fix"=lost contact with, not in program [17:12] -"Assigned to"=mentor [17:13] What if "complete" means that they are qualified for "general" training [17:13] and then we can tell mentors to "shop" through the list of "complete" unassigned or "triaged" unassigned bugs [17:14] to see if there are people they recognize from sponsoring packages, etc - then assign themselvs to the bug [17:15] Would motu-reception be compulsory, or is it an extra method to help people into the team? Ie, can the exisiting method still be used? [17:15] After packaging trainging (when a mentee goes to "complete"), they can do merges, syncs, small fixes, FTBFS, rebuilds, etc. -- and "build" a reputation for themselves, then get picked by a mentee [17:15] Not compulsory [17:15] Daviey, nothing is compulsory [17:15] showard: thanks. [17:16] huats: well no, but i mean't - would they have to do this process to join motu.. Breathing isn't compulsory :) [17:16] Remember to ask you not to breah for a while next time we cross :) [17:16] My concern is finding enough mentors, and if you can let people shop around - someone might do it that might not have normally if the recognize someone that they sponsored [17:17] Daviey: you can still join motu normally [17:17] showard, I am not very confortable with the idea of letting the mentors pick the mentee [17:17] actually we were quite strict in avoiding people from the same country or the same mother language [17:17] to push people to use english [17:18] and I think it is something to persue [17:18] ok, that makes sense - we can think about it over the week [17:18] agree with huats [17:19] In that case we can summarize what we said today on the wiki, and come up with an agenda for next week [17:20] yep [17:20] yeah [17:22] ok, something to discuss again? can we stop here? [17:22] Thanks all, i'll post it on the wiki and send an email for you all to check it out (and next weeks agenda) [17:22] I think we can stop here [17:22] OK, thanks all [17:22] have a good week! [17:23] showard: thanks, you too! :) [17:26] thanks guys ! === unimix_ is now known as unimix|work [18:07] hi all! [18:08] hi [18:08] hi jdstrand, jjohansen [18:08] and everyone else! :) [18:09] * kees joins from laggy tmobile network along train route :) [18:09] oh, hehe, hi kees! [18:09] ah cool [18:09] heya! :) [18:09] kees: Can you hear me now? [18:09] kees: do you usually do a #startmeeting? [18:09] heheh [18:09] jdstrand: I haven't, no, but we probably should [18:09] #startmeeting [18:09] Meeting started at 12:09. The chair is jdstrand. [18:09] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [18:10] hehe [18:10] regardless, I shouldn't chair since the next tunnel will drop me. ;) [18:10] I'm chair cause kees is on vacation! :P [18:10] kees: since you are here, why don't you go first? [18:10] jdstrand: do you feel powerful with all those commands at your disposal? :) [18:10] I would, if I knew what to do with them :P [18:11] let's see. I'm hoping to do more ISO testing, work our release checklist, and look for low-hanging fruit [18:12] since that took 2 minutes to send over the network, I will stop there. :P [18:12] ok, my turn [18:12] I'm on triage this week [18:12] kees: thanks :) [18:12] and will probably release ffmpeg updates todat [18:12] s/todat/today/ [18:13] I'll do some iso testing, and will pick something from the CVE list [18:13] I'm done [18:14] I plan to fix an irssi upstream regression today (small), then publish netpbm and kdebase-workspace (for kdm) [18:15] I imagine the kdm testing will take a little while, so it might not go out until tomorrow [18:15] then ISO testing and install audits [18:15] (install audits got pushed back again, due to updates/vacations/etc) [18:16] I think we should all make a concerted effort to make sure lucid is up to date and accurate in UCT [18:16] (it's one of our unspoken release tasks) [18:16] agreed [18:16] other than that, I'm done [18:16] I'll take a look at that also [18:18] mdeslaur: cool thanks-- I fixed a few things last week, but didn't get a chance to focus on it [18:18] anything else? [18:18] jdstrand: not from me [18:18] any questions for the security team? [18:19] we also welcome complaints and/or donuts [18:19] s#complaints and/or ## [18:19] :) [18:19] hehe [18:19] ok. thanks everyone! [18:19] #endmeeting [18:19] Meeting finished at 12:19. [18:20] Don't forget some self congratuatlions about Ubuntu Server admins not shooting themselves in the head over clamav last week. === yofel_ is now known as yofel [21:04] so, when will it begin? [21:05] we are waiting here :-) === RoAkSoAx is now known as RoAk === RoAkSoAx_ is now known as RoAkSoAx === RoAkSoAx_ is now known as RoAk === RoAk is now known as RoAkSoAx