[08:08] <godbyk> Hey, thorwil. How's it going?
[08:28] <thorwil> godbyk: hi, all good. you?
[08:28] <godbyk> Not too bad.
[08:29] <godbyk> Today was a low-mental-activity day.
[08:29] <godbyk> Just tidying up my office a bit, watching some tv, etc.
[08:33] <thorwil> godbyk: saw some odd dotted circles on the Thai titlepage
[08:34] <godbyk> thorwil: Is it in the repository? I can take a look
[08:34] <thorwil> godbyk: no, generated and not added
[08:35] <thorwil> godbyk: http://www.foopics.com/showfull/7887d654f450c47ac847452422eac6db
[08:39] <godbyk> thorwil: Okay. Let me run a test with TeX and see what it generates.
[08:45] <godbyk> thorwil: I've emailed you a PDF of how XeLaTeX renders the Thai.
[08:45] <godbyk> thorwil: I'm using the Norasi typeface from the ttf-thai-tlwg package.
[08:46] <godbyk> (Inkscape falls back on lame typefaces if the actual font isn't installed. So watch out for that.)
[08:47] <thorwil> godbyk: i do have Norasi, but Inkscape claims the title in the SVG is in Garuda!?
[08:48] <godbyk> Let me look.
[08:48] <thorwil> however, the symbols are the same if i switch to Norasi
[08:48] <godbyk> thorwil: Ah, Garuda would be the sans serif font I'm using.
[08:48] <godbyk> Let me try the PDF with that.
[08:50] <thorwil> godbyk: looking at the pdf -> the dotted circles shouldn't be there, the stuff drawn above them belongs to the characters to the left
[08:50] <godbyk> thorwil: I just sent you another PDF with Garuda this time.
[08:51] <godbyk> that's right.
[08:51] <godbyk> the dotted circles are placeholders. the are for the consonants. the bits above are the vowels.
[08:51] <godbyk> they should be set above the consonants.
[08:52] <thorwil> godbyk: i can fix that the brutal and hard way, if need be
[08:52] <thorwil> but then we'd lose the ability to switch to embedding fonts once that's available, for this one
[08:52] <godbyk> true
[08:54] <thorwil> did i say hard? fast and easy, actually, just inflexible result
[09:17] <ubuntujenkins> morning all
[09:23] <humphreybc> morning Luke!
[09:24] <thorwil> morning *
[09:41] <ubuntujenkins> quickshot is going to be amazing next release
[09:41] <humphreybc> is it? xD
[09:43] <ubuntujenkins> it will be god, we have lots planned
[09:43] <ubuntujenkins> *good
[09:44] <humphreybc> great, when are you planning it for?
[09:45] <ubuntujenkins> we didn't set a release date, august sometime i guess.
[09:46] <ubuntujenkins> it depends on how quickly we can get it done. but we are gtting it 100% right this time
[09:47] <ubuntujenkins> maveric ui freeze is 16t september
[09:49] <humphreybc> nice1
[09:49] <humphreybc> !*
[09:51] <ubuntujenkins> you should see some ui sketches by the end of this week
[10:08] <popey> where is the latest build of the manual?
[10:10] <godbyk> popey: give me a moment and I'll build one for ya.
[10:10] <godbyk> popey: any particular language you're interested in?
[10:10] <popey> en
[10:10] <popey> en-gb if you have it :)
[10:12] <godbyk> popey: You can grab it from here: http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/
[10:12] <godbyk> I haven't updated the translations for a few days though.
[10:13] <godbyk> I'll let you know when it's done, though.
[10:13] <godbyk> (Waiting for Launchpad to email me the latest.)
[10:13] <popey> thanks
[10:15] <popey> http://ubuntu-manual.org/bugs is broken
[10:16] <thorwil> godbyk: oh boy, i havn't taken care of the titlepages for en_GB and en_AU, yet! ;)
[10:17] <humphreybc> popey, we haven't been focussing on our bug reporting thing much recently till we have time to use the Launchpad API and do it properly - for now you can report bugs on launchpad
[10:17] <popey> you might want to fix the link on the site then?
[10:17] <godbyk> popey: odd.  I'll look into it.  in the meantime, you can file bugs in launchpad or using the form here: http://spreadsheets.google.com/a/ubuntu-manual.org/viewform?hl=en&formkey=dHRrYlR0Q0RMRXRTaXJuR2w0QjFUcXc6MA
[10:19] <popey> done, thanks
[10:24] <popey> i see a bug i filed hasnt been fixed yet
[10:24] <godbyk> popey: is that bug in the "Introducing sudo" section?
[10:24] <popey> yes
[10:24] <popey> about apt-get
[10:24] <godbyk> okay.
[10:25] <godbyk> It may be a translation bug. I'll look in a moment. (Just got the latest translations from launchpad.)
[10:25] <godbyk> In the original American English version it looks correct, though.
[10:29] <popey> ah, i see
[10:30] <godbyk> I'm rebuilding all the PDFs with the latest translations now.  We'll see how it turns out.
[10:30] <popey> good work
[10:38] <thorwil> godbyk: pushed Thai SVG with text converted to paths to put those accents into place
[10:39] <godbyk> thorwil: cool, thanks.
[10:39] <thorwil> hmm, looking at translation progress, i really have no reason to hurry :/
[10:40] <godbyk> thorwil: true.
[10:40] <thorwil> godbyk: there doesn't happen to be an email-notification-on-progress system in place for translation on LP?
[10:42] <godbyk> thorwil: not that I'm aware of.
[11:05] <thorwil> Asturian pushed, that shall be it for today
[11:07] <godbyk> awesome.  thanks, thorwil!
[12:50]  * semioticrobotic congratulates humphreybc on a fun interview with his former fellow Ubuntu PA Loco Team Member, pleia2 
[12:51] <humphreybc> thanks Bryan!
[12:51] <humphreybc> Hey guys, good news, apparently we are "one of the largest open-source teams in the world"
[12:51] <humphreybc> https://www.ohloh.net/p/ubuntu-manual/factoids/2707707
[12:51] <semioticrobotic> Just finished reading it.  Nice work!
[12:51] <semioticrobotic> ah!  very cool!
[12:52] <semioticrobotic> The Full Circle Podcast team gave us another shoutout this week, as they read my letter on the air
[12:52] <humphreybc> oh great
[12:53] <semioticrobotic> you'll hear it with about four minutes left in the broadcast
[12:53] <humphreybc> link?
[12:53] <semioticrobotic> on its way ...
[12:53] <semioticrobotic> http://fullcirclemagazine.org/2010/04/17/full-circle-podcast-4-its-everyone-elses-fault/
[12:54] <humphreybc> what was your letter about?
[12:54] <humphreybc> My internet is really slow at the moment
[12:55] <humphreybc> can't download the podcast in reasonable time
[16:11] <ubuntujenkins> dutchie: ping
[17:57] <dutchie> ubuntulog: pong
[17:57] <dutchie> ubuntujenkins: pong
[18:22] <ubuntujenkins> dutchie: ping
[18:22] <dutchie> pong ish
[18:22] <ubuntujenkins> hello how did we get the manual braches names looking good?
[18:23] <dutchie> like lp:ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1?
[18:23] <ubuntujenkins> yep
[18:23] <ubuntujenkins> i am trying to make lp:quickshot/server
[18:23] <dutchie> set it up as the dev focus for the lucid-e1 series
[18:24] <dutchie> i would show you, but I'm in the middle of supper
[18:25] <ubuntujenkins> ok when you have finished, i might get you too as i can't see how
[18:29] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: ping
[18:30] <dutchie> right
[18:31] <dutchie> https://edge.launchpad.net/quickshot/+addseries
[18:31] <dutchie> (i'll do it all, you can follow along)
[18:31] <ubuntujenkins> i haev made the branch
[18:31] <ubuntujenkins> https://code.edge.launchpad.net/quickshot
[18:32] <dutchie> just filled in the form on there, adding the branch as associated branch
[18:33] <ubuntujenkins> o i see now, You got the link from the main page
[18:33] <ubuntujenkins> thanks dutchie, makes sense
[18:33] <dutchie> and we're done :)
[18:34] <ubuntujenkins> sweet :)
[18:35] <ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: ping
[18:45] <ubuntujenkins> quickshot ui idea so far, going to have a chat with godby-k tonight and see what ideas he has  http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5012868/quickshot-ui.odp
[18:45] <ubuntujenkins> any one any suggestions/thoughts on it?
[18:47] <ubuntujenkins> its very rough
[19:35] <daker> hi @all
[19:35] <ubuntujenkins> hello daker
[19:35] <daker> what's up
[19:35] <ubuntujenkins> not much, should be doing course work
[19:37] <daker> what about the RC ?
[19:37] <ubuntujenkins> thats not today is it?
[19:38] <daker> [19:38] <daker> April 20th 2010 - Version 0.9
[19:38] <daker> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual
[19:39] <ubuntujenkins> so it is we have had no problems then launcphad says it was released 16 hours ago
[19:40] <ubuntujenkins> well no one shouting on irc
[19:51] <daker> godbyk, godbyk-android
[19:51] <daker> !!
[19:51] <ubuntujenkins> daker: don't think he is around yet i am waiting for a pong from him
[19:51] <daker> oki
[21:44] <godbyk> Okay, I'm awake again.
[21:44] <Red_HamsterX> Hi, ubuntujenkins.
[21:44] <godbyk> Blame humphreybc--he's the one who kept me up so late. :)
[21:45] <ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: I have started a new server branch lp:quickshot/server I haev copied the server stuff across but the server is not pointing at that branch yet
[21:45] <Red_HamsterX> 'Kay.
[21:45] <ubuntujenkins> hello godbyk ^^ can you change the server accross please
[21:45] <Red_HamsterX> I'll check it out so I don't mess up. Thanks for letting me know. :)
[21:46] <Red_HamsterX> Uh... No, don't point it there.
[21:46] <ubuntujenkins> als Red_HamsterX and godbyk have a look at http://dl.dropbox.com/u/5012868/quickshot-ui.odp
[21:46] <Red_HamsterX> If we're going to do a from-scratch rebuild, we don't want the production environment to break.
[21:46] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: So I need to check out the lp:quickshot/server branch and point the site at that branch?
[21:46] <ubuntujenkins> no godbyk ignore that
[21:46] <godbyk> Will that interrupt any of the existing screenshots/process?
[21:46] <godbyk> okay.
[21:47] <Red_HamsterX> Slide 2 is actually supposed to be a small dialogue box, right, ubuntujenkins?
[21:47] <godbyk> lemme catch up on my email real quick and then I'll look at your document, ubuntujenkins.
[21:47] <ubuntujenkins> yep all basic ideais so far godby-k and i are going to discuss ideas
[21:48] <ubuntujenkins> as kevins degree is all about the design
[21:48] <Red_HamsterX> slide 3 could probably say "Your current language is English. If this is what you want, click next. Otherwise, pick your language from the list below."
[21:48] <godbyk> btw, ubuntujenkins and Red_HamsterX, I set up quickshot on ohloh.  So you should claim your contributor names and 'apply' for manager status so I can approve it. https://www.ohloh.net/p/quickshot
[21:50] <ubuntujenkins> Proably a good idea Red_HamsterX
[21:51] <Red_HamsterX> red_hamsterx created on ohloh, godbyk.
[21:55] <ubuntujenkins> I have applied for manager status
[21:56] <Red_HamsterX> Slide 4 should have a little more detail: there should be a way to change the server being queried/add-or-remove servers and an 'import from file' button. (Apologies if you've already addressed this in your notes)
[21:56] <Red_HamsterX> Logically, projects that have expired will be culled automatically, bypassing the need for a way to remove individual entries.
[21:56] <Red_HamsterX> I like slide 6 as a concept.
[21:57] <Red_HamsterX> You might want to add a "general attributes" block below it, though, to let the user know about things like whether the window should be expanded to full screen or not. Possibly with a little help icon next to each element.
[21:58] <Red_HamsterX> There should also be a slide, immediately after the project is selected, that displays MOTD/project completion stats.
[21:58] <Red_HamsterX> (Recently completed languages and important updates)
[21:59] <ubuntujenkins> ok this is good, what do you mean by " there should be a way to change the server being queried/add-or-remove server" ? I thought we were putting the a ditionary of .qsprjt files on our server
[22:00] <Red_HamsterX> In slide 6, 'Skip' should probably be something more like 'View list of screenshots', and it might be best placed on the left of the spacer.
[22:00] <Red_HamsterX> Oh, yes, we are, but what if our server goes down or the domain dies?
[22:00] <ubuntujenkins> the spacer is a progress bar that appears when the prgram is doing something. View list of screenshots is a long thing to put on a button
[22:01] <Red_HamsterX> It's just a tiny feature. Not necessary, but probably easy to implement.
[22:01] <Red_HamsterX> True. We'd need a shorter name.
[22:01] <ubuntujenkins> I will work it in
[22:01] <Red_HamsterX> 'Skip' isn't very intuitive, though.
[22:01] <godbyk> okay, done with email.
[22:01] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: I approved your manager status.
[22:01] <ubuntujenkins> I know couldn't think of anything else
[22:01] <ubuntujenkins> thanks godbyk
[22:03] <Red_HamsterX> 'View list'?
[22:03]  * Red_HamsterX shrugs.
[22:03] <ubuntujenkins> that could work
[22:04] <Red_HamsterX> Oh, on slide 6, we really need a "Let me out of here!" button.
[22:04] <Red_HamsterX> "Quit", probably.
[22:05] <Red_HamsterX> Other than that, it all looks good.
[22:05] <Red_HamsterX> Much better flow than before.
[22:05] <ubuntujenkins> well let godbyk have a good look at it first
[22:06] <Red_HamsterX> Of course.
[22:06] <godbyk> I'm reading through all of Red_HamsterX's comments. :-)
[22:06] <Red_HamsterX> I just meant that's all the input I can offer.
[22:06] <ubuntujenkins> thanks all welcome, I am updateing the file at the moment. I got bored of drawing :)
[22:07] <godbyk> Okay, done reading comments. I've finished paging through the slides. Let me refill my water glass and then I'll start commenting. brb. :)
[22:10] <godbyk> okay, I'm back.
[22:10] <ubuntujenkins> ok if you click the link again i THINK I have updated it with all of Red_HamsterX changes
[22:11] <godbyk> ok
[22:12] <ubuntujenkins> I tried to keep all the windows the same size so that it was less higgle de piggledy
[22:12] <godbyk> So the first slide.. is that what's shown as my normal user is as the quickshot user?
[22:13] <ubuntujenkins> normal user
[22:13] <ubuntujenkins> thats the only thing the normal user needs to see
[22:14] <ubuntujenkins> cuts out three stages from the old way
[22:16] <godbyk> It seems too abrupt.
[22:17] <ubuntujenkins> ok, what would be the best way to do it?
[22:17] <ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: I would like to keep lp:quickshot for developement, would it make sense to move the current release to lp:quickshot/0.0.80?
[22:17] <godbyk> If this is their first time running the program, we need to explain briefly about what's going to happen.
[22:18] <ubuntujenkins> keep it on one window with more explination? I hand't really thought about the text yet
[22:18] <godbyk> I'd probably split it between two windows.
[22:18] <Red_HamsterX> Does Bazaar have a tagging convention?
[22:19] <godbyk> The first gives the intro and (if the quickshot user doesn't exist) asks for a password.
[22:19] <godbyk> Then the next window instructs the user to close all their programs and log out and back in as the quickshot user.
[22:19] <Red_HamsterX> Like a way of indicating that certain branches are actual releases, maintained for bugfixes/posterity.
[22:21] <ubuntujenkins> I can call it what you like
[22:21] <ubuntujenkins> i e lp:quickshot/*************
[22:21] <Red_HamsterX> Maybe we should create a 'releases' branch and put a 0.0.8 directory in there.
[22:22] <Red_HamsterX> Or 'version-0.0.8'
[22:22] <dutchie> Red_HamsterX: you'd use series in launchpad for that
[22:22] <dutchie> and have separate branches
[22:22]  * Red_HamsterX reads.
[22:23] <godbyk> dutchie: I need your help.  Just a moment. :)
[22:24] <godbyk> dutchie: http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/04/20/%23launchpad.html#t11:10
[22:25] <godbyk> dutchie: We need to add this "translator-credits" string someplace so that we can automatically collect the translator names and email addresses.
[22:25] <ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: I can make a relase branch and put it all in there in i derectory we just need to change the server over
[22:25] <godbyk> dutchie: Is there an easy way to do this directly or do I need to add it someplace in the manual itself?
[22:26]  * dutchie is reading
[22:26] <Red_HamsterX> ubuntujenkins, dutchie was right: it looks like creating a series is the right way to manage this.
[22:26] <dutchie> Red_HamsterX: I'm always right ;)
[22:27] <Red_HamsterX> The only question is how we tag trunk to put it into a series...
[22:27] <Red_HamsterX> Actually, the question is "do I have any idea what I'm talking about?"
[22:28] <ubuntujenkins> I know what dutchi-e is on about
[22:28] <Red_HamsterX> So I shouldn't click "Register Series" and risk messing stuff up?
[22:29] <dutchie> Red_HamsterX: no risk of that
[22:29] <ubuntujenkins> I need to make a branch first
[22:29] <Red_HamsterX> I don't quite know what I'm doing, though.
[22:29] <ubuntujenkins> I can do it
[22:29] <dutchie> no need to be careful when you're creating, only when you're deleting
[22:30] <Red_HamsterX> I don't want to pollute the project's history unnecessarily.
[22:33] <dutchie> godbyk: I'm just trying to think of the best way to do it
[22:34] <godbyk> dutchie: okay, thanks.
[22:34] <godbyk> dutchie: I have to figure out how to format it all in latex anyway.
[22:34] <dutchie> godbyk: where are the credits now?
[22:34] <dutchie> oh, in credits/
[22:35] <dutchie> *facepalm*
[22:35] <dutchie> hah
[22:35] <godbyk> :)
[22:35] <dutchie> just noticed "Manualbot" in the special thanks section
[22:36] <godbyk> heh
[22:37] <dutchie> how about we replace the whole credits environment with translator-credits, and have the Makefile munge it around at build time?
[22:38] <godbyk> dutchie: I don't think we can do the whole credits section as that, but we can certainly have a Translators heading that contains the translator-credits stuff.
[22:38] <godbyk> and we can use Makefile to munge it at build-time if necessary.
[22:39] <godbyk> We could, I suppose, show only those translators who worked on the translation you're reading, too.
[22:39] <dutchie> I did mean just the one for the translators :)
[22:39] <godbyk> but I can use make+gettext to pull all the translators from all the language during build time if we prefer.
[22:39] <dutchie> that's probably ben's call
[22:40] <godbyk> probably
[22:41] <dutchie> I don't think we should change anything in lucid-e1
[22:41] <dutchie> but we can try it in -e2 and maverick
[22:41] <dutchie> ^^ official dutchie opinion
[22:41] <dutchie> (TM)
[22:42] <godbyk> dutchie: sounds like a plan. :)
[22:53]  * humphreybc needs python help!
[22:53] <ubuntujenkins> ok.........
[22:53] <humphreybc> lol
[22:54] <humphreybc> http://paste.ubuntu.com/419488/
[22:55] <dutchie> wow, that's a new problem
[22:55] <humphreybc> lol
[22:55] <humphreybc> help?
[22:56] <dutchie> I have to be up in 7 hours
[22:56] <humphreybc> aw
[22:57] <dutchie> I will get one thing though: s[index:len(s)] is better written as s[index:]
[22:57] <godbyk> Also, str.find() may or may not be useful.
[22:57] <dutchie> except you probably want len(sub)
[22:57] <godbyk> (just tossing it out there)
[22:57] <dutchie> godbyk: I'm going to assume he's supposed to do it without the std library
[22:58] <godbyk> dutchie: I assumed that at first, but then it turned out that he was to write a max function that just calls max and returns the result.
[22:58] <dutchie> heh
[22:58] <godbyk> dutchie: seems it's more a test of how much of the std lib he knows.
[22:58] <dutchie> bit of a shame then :(
[22:58] <dutchie> bed now though
[22:58] <dutchie> nn
[22:59] <humphreybc> lol
[22:59] <humphreybc> i think the idea is to do it with loops and crazy things
[23:01] <humphreybc> str.find(sub) would return the lowest index where the substring is found
[23:30] <ubuntujenkins> does anyone else get an error when they visit https://launchpad.net/quickshot/releases
[23:31] <semioticrobotic> yes
[23:31] <semioticrobotic> 400 Error retrieving series data.
[23:31] <ubuntujenkins> ok thanks thats what i get
[23:34] <ubuntujenkins> who did the milestones for the manual time line?
[23:41] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: if you look at lp:quickshot/releases in the 0.0.8 folder is exactly the same stuff as currently in lp:quickshot so nothing should break.
[23:44] <ubuntujenkins> right the error is caused by the series being called releases what can i call it instead?