=== ogra_ is now known as ogra
dholbachsabdfl, popey, Technoviking, nixternal, mako: hello - no agenda items on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityCouncilAgenda12:00
dholbachas far as I know the only ongoing thing right now is the wiki licensing - I can check in with mdke for an update12:00
dholbachdo you know of anything else?12:00
sabdflnothing from me12:00
dholbachI'll do that then and see what we can do12:01
dholbachI never imagined that with setting up the RMBs and LoCo Council our meetings would be THAT short. :)12:01
dholbachany other business from anybody?12:01
dholbachif not, I'll just take the action to mail mdke and we'll adjourn.12:02
popeynothing from me12:02
popeyare we planning to have a meeting at UDS?12:02
popeyactually we have one before then I guess12:02
sabdflgood news12:02
dholbachpopey: you mean the regular IRC CC meeting or a "governance check" session?12:03
sabdflthe new DPL mailed to introduce himself, which is a first and very well received12:03
sabdfland he'll be able to attend UDS, which is even better12:03
dholbachthat's fantastic news12:03
sabdflso it would be a good opportunity for folks on the CC to meet him and have productive conversations12:03
dholbachit'll be great to hang out with him :)12:03
popeyhow much of the cc will be there?12:04
popeyI'm guessing Mike/Mako wont be.12:04
dholbachjcastro should know12:04
* dholbach doesn't have the overview.12:04
popeyjust wondered, not vital12:05
dholbachactually, I do: https://launchpad.net/sprints/uds-m :)12:05
dholbachI think I'll start another thread about "conversations we should have at UDS", so we can schedule sessions if there's enough demand12:05
sabdflis that a wrap, folks?12:06
dholbachpopey, sabdfl: anything else form you?12:06
dholbachI'm all set12:06
dholbachrock on - thanks everybody :)12:06
sabdfllooking forward to seeing everyone in Belgium12:06
popeyyeah, me too12:06
sabdflthanks Daniel for keeping us rollin'12:06
* dholbach hugs you all :)12:06
sabdflhugs back12:06
=== Seveaz is now known as Seveas
=== gnomefreak76 is now known as gnomefreak
* ogra slurps 14:00
* GrueMaster yawns14:00
* plars refrains from continuing the pattern of bodily noises on irc14:00
dyfetgetting coffee14:01
* davidm davidm waves and goes looking for coffee too14:01
* asac waves14:01
* ogra wonders where our chair is to do a roll-call14:01
* JamieBennett waves too14:01
asacNCommander: ^^14:01
MootBotMeeting started at 08:01. The chair is NCommander.14:01
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]14:01
NCommanderIf your not here, say I14:01
asachey cooloney14:03
NCommander[link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/2010041314:03
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/2010041314:03
cooloneyasac: hey, man14:03
JamieBennettNCommander: wrong link14:03
NCommanderjames_w: I just noticed you bolded the again on OOo being broken on the last meeting notes. That made me chuckle :-)14:03
NCommanderoh, whoops14:04
NCommander[link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/2010042014:04
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileTeam/Meeting/2010/2010042014:04
asacNCommander: i think the actions from last week are wrong14:04
asacoh ;)14:04
asacthe url was wrong14:04
* davidm now has coffee and is here14:04
NCommanderdavidm: coffee is a good thing. Its also a dependency of the mobile-team package14:05
* JamieBennett kicks the meeting chair to get going ;)14:06
NCommanderso are we all here?14:06
asacNCommander: how about action items from last meeting?14:06
NCommanderI was making sure we were all here14:06
NCommander[topic] AI Review14:06
MootBotNew Topic:  AI Review14:06
NCommander[topic] GrueMaster and plars to continue to keep working with crimsun on ARM PulseAudio14:06
MootBotNew Topic:  GrueMaster and plars to continue to keep working with crimsun on ARM PulseAudio14:06
* NCommander fixs the page he's looking on14:06
ogramorning NCommander14:06
NCommander[topic] dyfet to check update-manager sanity checks for ARM upgrades.14:06
MootBotNew Topic:  dyfet to check update-manager sanity checks for ARM upgrades.14:06
JamieBennettthe checks were fine?14:07
JamieBennettno string changed needed?14:07
ograsurely not14:07
asacdyfet: ?14:07
dyfetI have to check :)14:07
asaccan you do that today?14:07
dyfetI did not realize I had this task until now :).  Yes I can14:07
NCommanderc/o I guess14:08
NCommander[action] dyfet to check update-manager sanity checks for ARM upgrades.14:08
MootBotACTION received:  dyfet to check update-manager sanity checks for ARM upgrades.14:08
plarson a side note, I did attempt update from karmic14:08
NCommander[action] GrueMaster to send a list of bugs that need attention to asac.14:08
MootBotACTION received:  GrueMaster to send a list of bugs that need attention to asac.14:08
plarsand it worked on imx51 where I tested it at least14:08
plarsbut this would not have needed the sanity check14:08
* mvo mumbles something about string freeze14:08
NCommanderplars: it should also work on dove if you shoehorn an X0 kernel onto a karmic installation14:08
ogramvo, well, even if we only change the check thats better than nothing14:08
GrueMasterShortly after last meeting, plars beat me to the punch with http://people.canonical.com/~plars/dashboard.html.14:08
ogramvo, keeipng the old error14:09
mvoogra: yeah14:09
asacGrueMaster: hmm. ok14:09
plarsGrueMaster: not sure that's a replacement.. it's not done, and not on a cron job to update yet14:09
asacGrueMaster: but thats not a short list14:09
asacf candidates that might need more attention etc.14:09
asacanyway. ok14:09
plarsGrueMaster: that's also for a somewhat different purpose14:09
GrueMasterMay be for a different purpose, but it generated the same list.14:10
asacwhich list is that?14:10
asacthe "Bugs tagged for armel"?14:10
GrueMasterBugs that need attention.14:10
GrueMasterFor armel.14:10
NCommanderanything else on this?14:10
asacGrueMaster: where is that on that dashboard?14:11
GrueMasterOnly to note that none of the bugs directly affecting live images have been looked at.14:11
GrueMasterBugs tagged armel 121 14:11
asachtats the full list14:11
asacwe wanted a short list for prioritization ;)14:11
GrueMasterOk, I'll whip something together today.14:12
asacanyway. lets move on. if you see anything that isnt on RC bug list and that is a good candidate for a fix let me know14:12
asacNCommander: maybe action on that and move on ;)14:13
NCommander[action] GrueMaster to priorize the 121 bugs and send them to asac14:13
MootBotACTION received:  GrueMaster to priorize the 121 bugs and send them to asac14:13
asacJamieBennett to add StartupNofify  support to webservice-office-zoho.  -> that happened14:13
JamieBennettdone and in the images :)14:13
NCommander[topic] JamieBennett to add StartupNofify support to webservice-office-zoho14:13
MootBotNew Topic:  JamieBennett to add StartupNofify support to webservice-office-zoho14:13
NCommanderoh good14:13
NCommander[topic] asac to work with roc on the firefox scrollbar issue14:13
MootBotNew Topic:  asac to work with roc on the firefox scrollbar issue14:13
asaci dont want 121 prioritized ;) ... just good candidates for a fix14:13
asacyes... this turned out to be toolchain14:14
asaca certain mix of optimization flags seem to trigger it14:14
asaci dont see it with all -O2 which we will go for14:14
JamieBennettfixed now?14:14
NCommander[action] Correction: GrueMaster to determine what bugs that are good candidates to be fixed for lucid release14:14
MootBotACTION received:  Correction: GrueMaster to determine what bugs that are good candidates to be fixed for lucid release14:14
ografix in sight ?14:14
asacJamieBennett: not in archive.14:14
asacogra: yes. -O2 ;)14:14
asaci will push that to some ppa so we can verify without busting RC images14:14
NCommander[action] NCommander, GrueMaster, plars to test firefox images14:15
MootBotACTION received:  NCommander, GrueMaster, plars to test firefox images14:15
ograadd me too :)14:15
ografor omap ;)14:15
asacogra: does ffox start on beagle?14:15
NCommanderogra: how many days does it take?14:15
ogradid even when we still had a live image14:15
NCommander[action] NCommander, GrueMaster, plars, ogra to test firefox images14:15
dmartasac: can you let me know the details in the firefox issue later?  Out tools guys may be interested...14:15
MootBotACTION received:  NCommander, GrueMaster, plars, ogra to test firefox images14:15
ograNCommander, faster than imx51 :P14:16
ogra(in live image at least)14:16
asacdmart: lets talk about this after meeting. yes.14:16
NCommander[topic] NCommander to investigate gphoto FTBFS14:16
MootBotNew Topic:  NCommander to investigate gphoto FTBFS14:16
asacogra: wow14:16
NCommanderShort story: our buildds suck14:16
asacNCommander: so i had this here too and its hanging in dot14:16
ograbut we dont have live images anymore so i cant show off with that :)14:16
NCommanderSlightly longer story: doxygen hangs on imx51 :-/14:16
asacfrom graphviz package14:16
asacis looping14:16
ograNCommander, the package sucks14:16
NCommanderasac: yeah, it doesn't do it on dove though.14:16
ograhas nothing to do with our buildds14:17
NCommanderogra: builds fine on dove14:17
persiaThe buildds also aren't great.  I can build hdf5 locally, but it fails on buildds.14:17
ograits simply building the arch all portion under armel14:17
ograwhich it shouldnt14:17
asacNCommander: maybe its in libimagemagick14:17
asacdoes that use something special?14:17
ograjust fix gphoto14:17
asacogra: ?14:18
ograthe packaging is clearly broken14:18
NCommanderogra: I'm going to work around the issue, to change the build behavior will be an invasive patch. I discussed this with slangasek so I just need to kick a debdiff14:18
ograasac, it builds arch all stuff under armel14:18
asacogra: generting a graph on the builder hangs14:18
NCommanderogra: its not the packaging, its the package. configure builds docs if doxygen is detected14:18
ograasac, for -doc packages that are arch all14:18
ograNCommander, right ...14:18
ografor lucid -> quick fix14:18
ografor the meerkat fix it *right*14:19
NCommanderogra: yes, that was my plan14:19
ograalready uploaded ?14:19
NCommanderogra: no, haven't fired a test build into a devirtualized PPA yet. Will do today14:19
ogra(we know that since last wed.)14:19
NCommanderogra: know what?14:19
ograthe packaging issue with all vs any14:20
asacNCommander: i see it hanging here on imx51 on a plain install14:20
asacwhy would a devirtualized ppa better?14:20
NCommanderasac: it didn't hang here, but I think I let it build for 20 hours without checking on it :-)14:20
persiaasac: Tests the actual buildd environment, rather than something else.14:20
asacNCommander: i left it running over a night hanging in the "dot"14:20
asacpersia: well. it hangs here at the same place where it hangs on the builders ;)14:21
NCommanderso I'll finish this today14:21
ograthanks :)14:21
asacok .ext14:21
NCommander[action] NCommander to give debdiff to {ogra|asac} for fixing libgphoto FTBFS14:21
MootBotACTION received:  NCommander to give debdiff to {ogra|asac} for fixing libgphoto FTBFS14:21
asacbuildd situation was discussed14:21
NCommander[topic] asac to discuss the buildd situation with lamont14:21
MootBotNew Topic:  asac to discuss the buildd situation with lamont14:21
NCommanderasac: results?14:21
ograwe have them14:21
asacNCommander: we have 9 builders14:22
asacerr 8 now it seems14:22
asacanyway ... all bbg3 is my last update on that14:22
ograpolus 1 livefs builder14:22
asacand the build queue is empty14:22
NCommander[topic] Current Items14:22
MootBotNew Topic:  Current Items14:22
NCommander[topic] http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile.html14:23
MootBotNew Topic:  http://people.canonical.com/~pitti/workitems/canonical-mobile.html14:23
ograwe'Re touching the trendline again ?14:23
asacso there are a bunch of work items14:23
asacwe should go through and clean them up14:23
asacwe want to be at ZERO14:23
asaci am not sure what to do with my firefox tasks14:24
asacmaybe i will throw them over the fence to chris coulson ;)14:24
asacbut i think they might even be done by now14:24
asaci have to check14:24
* ogra wonders why uboot imx still shows up 14:24
ogrado i need to set POSTPONED to DROPPED or something ?14:25
asacogra: yeah. let me check14:25
asacogra: i can take that off the lucid radar completely14:25
asacbut that would make all DONE items disappear14:25
ograyeah, do that14:25
asaclet me see14:25
ograit would fix the red stuff in the graph14:26
ogradevicetree seems similar14:26
asacogra: i made that now deferred14:26
asacnot sure if that changes a thing14:26
ograwe'll see in 1h :)14:26
asacogra: if it doesnt disappear set the reset to POSTPONE14:26
ograit *is* all postponed14:26
asacpersia: there are a couple of itms on that list for you14:27
asacabout desktop-lucid-xorg-enable-century-usb-screen14:27
asachave never heard of that spec before ;)14:27
ograyay for last minute specs :)14:27
GrueMasterI thought that was hinging on bryce doing something.14:27
persiaThese are brand-new for me for now.  They will not be done for lucid.14:28
ograyeah, bryce commented in the spec14:28
persiaI don't even have hardware to test that driver, and won't until bryce gives me back my device at UDS.14:28
ograall postpone14:28
persiapostpone?  Is that how we cancel stuff entirely?14:29
ogra"During the sprint I received a Century USB monitor device thingee from Persia which needs to have X support added for it."14:29
ograthats the spec description14:29
ograso you dont have it anymore ?14:29
persiaNo.  Bryce has my hardware.14:30
davidmI heard from bryce, it would take a lot of work (coding) to make these devices work correctly so he is not doing it.14:30
ogradavidm, mine works but needs an xorg.conf14:30
davidmPerhaps we can chase upstream or do it ourselves at some point.14:30
persiaYeah, I got it to that stage by packaging upstream.14:30
davidmYea, the autodetection is hard14:30
* ogra has a displaylink adapter but no time to do anything with it atm14:30
=== gnomefreak76 is now known as gnomefreak
persiaupstream is mostly inactive, but the xrandr stuff is potentially possible to add.14:31
persiaautodetection is something that nobody should expect from me :)14:31
ograsalcker !14:31
* NCommander hides from X14:31
asacok. for the workitem parrt of this discussion: ... persia can you confirm with bryce that nothing can be done for release and then postpone and drop a comment?14:32
ograit has three TODO items that need to be changed14:32
persiaI've confirmed already.  Is "POSTPONED" correct?  Is there no "CANCELLED" or "DROPPED"?14:33
* ogra isnt sure14:33
NCommanderpersia: I think if you just remove the item, it popped off the list14:33
asacpersia: i think DROPPPED was discussed, but wasnt implemented yet14:33
asacso just POSTPONE14:33
asacor POSTPONED ... i think both are ok14:33
persiaOK.  POSTPONE it is, but if someone wants it done, they should do it :)14:34
asacpersia: so to summarize: all the items for you on that spec are postpone?14:34
asacok that keeps us below the trend again ;)14:34
asacok ...  i think thats it for work items14:35
NCommandercan I mov eon?14:35
asaclets move on14:35
persiaFolks should tell me if they want me to do stuff, rather than just updating random whiteboards :)14:36
NCommander[topic] Kernel Status (cooloney, ericm)14:36
MootBotNew Topic:  Kernel Status (cooloney, ericm)14:36
asacpersia: so the problem was that you didnt know that those were your items ;)?14:36
cooloneyfor fsl-imx51 kernel, 2 fec patches were applied. they fixed the fec performance drop issue14:37
cooloneyi posted a patch fixing ifdown system hang issue. it was reviewed, need some updates and testing again.14:37
cooloneyi filed a bug #567157 about regulator issue.14:37
ubottuLaunchpad bug 567157 in linux-fsl-imx51 "regulators enabled at boot and also print error messages at boot." [High,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/56715714:37
cooloneyneed some test, heh14:37
* ogra thought we had a bug for that already14:37
cooloneyand too bad, my bb2.5 strikes now14:38
cooloneycan not boot14:38
cooloneyogra: really?14:38
ograBug 44614014:38
ubottuLaunchpad bug 446140 in linux-fsl-imx51 "regulator issues with 2.6.31 vs 2.6.28 with the same patchset" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/44614014:38
* ogra wonders why thats fix released though14:38
cooloneyyeah, that's why i did not find it14:39
cooloneyit was closed as fix released14:39
asacok ... GrueMaster can you test the kernel from cooloney on bbg to verify the regulartor issue?14:40
asaccooloney: thats what is needed, right?14:40
ogracooloney, right, but same issue14:40
GrueMasterplanned on it after the meeting.14:40
asacok thanks. i dont think we need an action, do we?14:41
cooloneyasac: right.14:41
asacok anything else on imx?14:41
cooloneyasac: no, i am done14:41
asacericm: ... any update on dove kernel?14:41
ericmnot much update for mvl-dove, just confirmed with Marvell that suspend/resume works with our recent kernel on their side, but I need to confirm with GrueMaster and plars as well14:41
asacthanks cooloney14:41
asacericm: how does marvell confirm that if you ask them? do they use our image etc.?14:42
plarsericm: istr one of the kernels I tested for you recently had it working again, I'll confirm with the latest image today14:42
ericmhibernation/resume is reported to work with explict resume=/dev/sda2 on kernel command line14:42
ericmplars, thanks14:42
ograwe set that in initramfs14:42
ericmasac, they are supposed to use lucid-beta14:42
ograbut based on UUID i think14:42
GrueMastertesting it now on my dove with RC build.14:42
asacericm: right. just wonder what that means ;) ... do they use their own kernel etc.?14:43
ericmogra, I know - that's why I'm debugging14:43
ericmasac, nope - they are using our kernel14:43
ograericm, /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/local-premount/resume14:43
asacvery good. so chances are hhigh that this is really fixed, which probably makes a great dove release ;)14:43
asacthanks ericm14:43
asac(and NCommander of course )14:44
ericmogra, from the log - it seems that restoring from swap is actually OK in both cases14:44
GrueMasterUnfortunately, it is not working on my dove.14:44
ericmbut weird that with initramfs it failed to resume at the last step14:44
asacoh ... we want to fix resume= in inintramfs ogra ?14:44
ograasac, iirc the installer writes the UUID somewhere and the initramfs script reads that14:45
ericmGrueMaster, I doubt it's a HW issue as I'm also unable to resume from suspend with my original dove board til I replaced one with Marvell shanghai14:45
ograso it might be an issue with dove subarch missing something wrt installation14:45
ericmogra, that's /etc/initramfs/conf.d/resume14:45
ericm/etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/resume, sorry14:45
ogra /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/resume14:45
ogrado you have the swap UUID in there in your dove install ?14:45
ericmogra, the resuming from swap is actually OK in both cases14:46
ericmogra, yes14:46
ograah, k14:46
* ogra doesnt understand the issue then14:46
ericmogra, yeah it's weird14:46
ograisnt resuming from swpa all we want ?14:46
ograif that works, whats the issue ?14:46
ericmogra, apart from that, the system will still undergo a full resume process and a SoC specific resume routine to restore the PC to what it was before14:47
ograso it resumes twice ?14:47
* ogra doesnt understand14:47
ericmogra, not necessarily, the first is reboot + restoring ram from swap, the 2nd part is a resume process + restoring of PC14:48
ericmogra, we can put it offline maybe14:48
ogramove on14:48
ericmnothing more, I think we can move on14:48
plarsof the two, I would thinkg suspend/resume is much more important14:48
asacok action: ericm and ogra and NCommander to sort out resume on dove ;)14:49
asacNCommander: ^^14:49
ograasac,  i dont have the HW14:49
asacack ... suspend/resume is important14:49
ograhappy to give tips though14:49
plarsand it sounds like suspend/resume may be still broken as well14:49
ograwhere i can14:49
asacogra: well, but you have valuable input even without that it seems14:49
NCommanderasac: probably not going to happen for lucid release, might be able to SRU it14:49
* plars will test also today14:49
ericmplars, thanks14:49
asacok NCommander give action and move on ;)14:49
asac(10 minutes left)14:50
NCommander[action] NCommander to work with plars, GrueMaster and ericm on dove suspend/resume14:50
MootBotACTION received:  NCommander to work with plars, GrueMaster and ericm on dove suspend/resume14:50
NCommander[topic] QA Status (GrueMaster, plars)14:50
MootBotNew Topic:  QA Status (GrueMaster, plars)14:50
* ogra listens 14:50
* asac hands mic to GrueMaster 14:50
plarsLooks like GrueMaster cranked through all of the iso images yesterday14:50
GrueMasterStill a lot of bugs on live/installed image.  Will detail list and email it out today.14:50
asacGrueMaster: thanks. maybe add that to the meeting wiki too14:51
asacthat gets send to everyone14:51
GrueMasterWill do.14:51
asacGrueMaster: at best under the standing item (e.g. not in activity)14:51
plarsI was spending some time with the TI image yesterday, server install seems to work pretty well for me, but had some problems with the netbook image at the end with FlashKernel14:51
plarsso install did not complete14:51
ograplars, solved today14:51
ograbut needs an update of livecd-rootfs on the livefs builder14:52
ogranot sure when the cronjob runs14:52
plarsalso, the xserver-xorg-video-*omap* doesn't seem to work, but I think I saw an email from ogra that may indicate the reason14:52
ograso tomorrows or tomorrow+1 image will work14:52
GrueMasterogra: I think the cron jobs are shut off during release week.14:52
ograplars, yeah, i looked at that today14:52
ograplars, sudo ln -s /dev/fb0 /dev/fb should fix it :)14:53
plarsogra: is it the same problem with both of them?14:53
asacplars: do you only have /dev/fb0?14:53
ograGrueMaster, not the one on the livefs builder that keeps the packages up to date :)14:53
asacor also fb1?14:53
ograasac, both14:53
asaci want to fix the -omap package to check for those too14:53
ografb1 is used for xv14:53
plarsasac: yes14:53
asacogra: do you know what omap board had /dev/fb?14:53
plarsasac: linking to fb does fix it14:53
asacbecause thats clearly hard coded as the default in the driver ... while it shouldprobably also ceck for fb0 etc.14:54
ograasac, no idea, beagle has fb0 and 114:54
ograasac, i can give you a debdiff with fix for lucid ... just didnt have time to test yet14:54
plarsogra: actually I even have fb214:54
NCommanderogra: dove has fb0, 1, and sometimes 214:54
asacACTION: asac/ogra to fix -omap driver to check for /dev/fb0 too if /dev/fb isnt avail14:54
ograright, the driver uses fb0 and 114:54
asaccan we have a bug?14:54
ograbut has /dev/fb hardcoded14:54
plarsasac: was just working on that before the meeting started14:55
ograi'll file one after meeting14:55
ograunless plars beats me to it :)14:55
asacok ... let me know ... and attach patch; if its as i wanted it that means its probably right ;)14:55
asacogra: so you alreadcy have the patch?14:55
asacotherwise i can also do it.14:55
ogra#define DEFAULT_DEVICE "/dev/fb"14:55
asaci would prefer to check fb0 on top14:56
asacrather than just changeing DEFAULT_DEVICE14:56
ograwell, lool had an idea to change the code completely14:56
ograbut thats rather intrusive14:56
asacI would suspect it was added there for some reason ;) ... and we could avoid breaking that use case14:56
asaci will look then14:56
asaci already looked. didnt feel that intrusive14:56
ograusing fbdev_open() and fbdevHWInit()14:57
ograsee xorg-server/hw/xfree86/fbdevhw/fbdevhw.c14:57
asacyes. i will see if that makes sense14:57
asacotherwise we can fall back to plain hacky approach ;)14:57
loologra: "change the code completely" indeed sounds intrusive...14:57
asacok moving on ...14:57
asac"ARM Application status (JamieBennett, dyfet) "14:58
plarswe are about out of time14:58
ogralool, adding code to use these functions vs a one char change :)14:58
JamieBennettEvolution still in the image :(14:58
asacjust quick:14:58
asacpersia: can you please take the action to get evolution of that image?14:58
ograNCommander, proposed to check the deps14:58
asacyou basically volunteered to do that ;)14:58
NCommander[topic] sudo landscape-config --url https://staging.landscape.canonical.com/message-system --ping-url http://staging.landscape.canonical.com/ping14:58
MootBotNew Topic:  sudo landscape-config --url https://staging.landscape.canonical.com/message-system --ping-url http://staging.landscape.canonical.com/ping14:58
* NCommander coughs14:58
ograhuh ?14:58
NCommander[topic] ARM Application status (JamieBennett, dyfet)14:58
MootBotNew Topic:  ARM Application status (JamieBennett, dyfet)14:58
NCommanderC*P fail14:58
* ogra wonders if there is a meeting after us14:59
asacNCommander: right. see action for persia above14:59
JamieBennettnot much else apart from desktop-webmail needs moving to Office category14:59
asacJamieBennett: i dont think it has to14:59
plarsJamieBennett: it should probably go in favorites as well14:59
asacother mailers are in internet too14:59
NCommander[action] persia and NCommander to remove evolution from ubuntu-netbook images14:59
MootBotACTION received:  persia and NCommander to remove evolution from ubuntu-netbook images14:59
plarsJamieBennett: especially if it's going to be replacing evo on that image14:59
JamieBennettasac: its where people will go looking for email since they are used to evolution being there14:59
asacwell. debatable ;) ... all tbird users (which are 50%) go for internet15:00
asaclets take this offline15:00
asacimage status?15:00
JamieBennettasac: OK, not a big deal15:00
asacNCommander: ^15:00
NCommander[action] asac and JamieBennett to take email client category discussion offline and report back15:00
MootBotACTION received:  asac and JamieBennett to take email client category discussion offline and report back15:00
ograimages seem to work ok though bug 563618 seems to hit JamieBennett on imx51 now too, omap misses a working netbook image (the others work, netbook should be ready tomorrow as mentioned above)15:00
ubottuLaunchpad bug 563618 in util-linux "Ignoring a broken clock results in infinite reboots; not ignoring results in fsck failure; no solution to this problem" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/56361815:00
* ogra points to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM/BeagleNetInstall15:01
ograi'll create the same for server ... and netbook15:01
asacJamieBennett: i think you can hit "M" key when its looping15:01
asacto go to maintenance shell15:01
JamieBennettogra: after setting the clock correctly it still hangs for me15:01
ograslangasek told me he would take a look at the approach but i think he is to busy atm15:01
JamieBennett(on next boot)15:01
JamieBennett(with power still applied)15:02
persiaSorry.  Laptop hung.  I'm happy with my action.15:02
ograJamieBennett, did you edit the two fstab files ?15:02
asacpersia: thx15:02
persiaomap fb may be complicated: there's a known workaround in case it is.15:02
JamieBennettogra: not yet, will after the meeting15:02
asacok lets take that offline15:02
asaci dont think we will find a solution during meeing for this bad bug15:02
ograNCommander, AOB ... move !15:02
NCommander[action] persia and asac to take omap fb issue offline and report back15:02
MootBotACTION received:  persia and asac to take omap fb issue offline and report back15:02
NCommander[topic] AOB15:02
MootBotNew Topic:  AOB15:02
asacNCommander: omap fb?15:03
asacthat was about  bug 56361815:03
ubottuLaunchpad bug 563618 in util-linux "Ignoring a broken clock results in infinite reboots; not ignoring results in fsck failure; no solution to this problem" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/56361815:03
asacand didnt involve me ;)15:03
asacbut no action neeeded imo15:03
NCommander[action] persia to take omap fb issue offline and report back15:03
asacso AOB?15:03
MootBotACTION received:  persia to take omap fb issue offline and report back15:03
NCommander[topic] ARM Image Status (ogra, persia)15:03
MootBotNew Topic:  ARM Image Status (ogra, persia)15:03
plarsomap fb bug is bug #56726015:03
ubottuLaunchpad bug 567260 in xf86-video-omapfb "xserver-xorg-video-omap* fail due to no /dev/fb" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/56726015:03
ograNCommander, we had that15:03
NCommander[topic] AOB15:04
MootBotNew Topic:  AOB15:04
asacok lets wrap up ;)15:04
ograwe had AOB too already ... you just got confused15:04
ogra#endmeeting :)15:04
asacanything else?15:04
asacok thanks!!15:04
MootBotMeeting finished at 09:04.15:04
* NCommander goes to kill the cat15:04
GrueMasterThus ends another well organized and smooth flowing meeting.15:04
ograclap clap clap15:04
* NCommander sulks away15:04
MootBotMeeting started at 09:05. The chair is mdz.15:05
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]15:05
sabdflwell done all15:05
mdzTech board15:05
mdzcjwatson sent apologies15:05
mdzpitti is expected15:05
mdzI haven't heard from Keybuk, and he's traveling, so I suspect he won't be here15:05
pitti(isn't it more like "he would like to travel, but can't"?)15:06
mdz[link] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda15:06
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda15:06
mdz[topic] action review15:07
MootBotNew Topic:  action review15:07
mdzRiddell says there is no update on https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/UpdatesPolicy15:07
mdzcjwatson's actions are still pending15:07
mdzpitti's action is done15:07
pittisyncs> there were quite a few answers, I did a summary on https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2010-April/030655.html15:07
mdzpitti, yes, I saw, thanks for summarizing15:07
mdz[topic] autopano-sift patent concern (Jo Shields)15:08
MootBotNew Topic:  autopano-sift patent concern (Jo Shields)15:08
pittiit's not fully clear whether we should go back to unstable for maverick, but given that Debian will get into freeze soon, it's probably prudent to do so15:08
pittiah, sorry15:08
mdz[link] https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2010-March/000174.html15:08
MootBotLINK received:  https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2010-March/000174.html15:08
pittiso, this limits usage in the US, but not distribution15:08
mdzdirecthex, hi, thanks for joining15:08
pittiwouldn't that be a case for multiverse rather?15:08
pitti(instead of removing it from teh archive)15:08
directhexah, my SIFT mail15:09
mdzpitti, really, why?15:09
mdzwouldn't the patent cover the implementation, not just its execution?15:09
pitti(FTR, the "LICENSE" document is just the standard GPL, it has no further details)15:09
pittimdz: it seems to be the very same case as libmad15:09
pittii. e. GPL implementation of a patented algorithm15:10
pittibut I'm not enough of a patent expert to say, TBH15:10
mdzit doesn't seem to be present in Debian15:11
mdzand is -0ubuntu, so I assume it was packaged for Ubuntu only?15:11
directhexit's indeed not present in debian15:11
pitti(no hard rdepends either)15:11
directhexi only really chanced upon it by accident, since it's not under the usual cross-distro maintenance15:11
mdzmultiverse sounds appropriate to me based on pitti's analysis15:11
keesmultiverse seems reasonable15:12
pittidoes a patent really already forbid implementation? or usage?15:12
pittiin the latter case, multiverse should be just fine15:12
mdzis this something we should concern ourselves with for lucid?15:12
pittisince it's allowed to be run anywhere but the US15:12
mdzpitti, IANAL15:12
pittimdz: do you think we can/should annoy Amanda with that?15:13
pittiit seems that we have had this case several times, and we are still not quite sure how to treat those15:13
mdzpitti, I think annoying sabdfl should be sufficient15:13
* mdz prods sabdfl15:13
sabdfli feel prodded15:14
=== unimix_ is now known as unimix|work
mdzsabdfl, thoughts?15:15
sabdflthere's an alleged patent, but no word from the patent applicant, i'd say we can defer judgment on the issue to a future release or communication15:16
pitti(for the record, it's been in universe since at least dapper)15:16
pittiso, we wouldn't cause any inconsistency by moving it to multiverse15:17
sabdfli would leave it in universe15:17
mdzdirecthex, anything to add?15:18
sabdflthere are hundreds of thousands of potential patent mines out there, we can't blink to multiverse or withdraw without a conversation with the patent holder, or knowledge of others having gone through the details with them15:18
directhexno, not at all15:18
sabdflwe're easily reachable by anybody who has a claim they think we need to be aware of15:18
directhexi feel no real interest in the package, other than that it happens to be under the new package group's remit15:18
pittisabdfl: oh, did we talk about the double click yet?15:18
mdzdirecthex, thanks for bringing this to our attention15:18
pittiok, thanks15:19
mdzin this case, we actually know who the patent holder is (according to the author of the software)15:19
pittiMark locuta, causa finita est :)15:19
mdzNotice: The SIFT algorithm is restricted by patents in the United States and hence this software is not completely free to use. For details see the LICENSE file included in the distribution, before you start to use this software.15:20
mdzThe University of British Columbia has applied for a patent on the SIFT algorithm in the United States. Commercial applications of this software may require a license from the University of British Columbia.15:20
pitti(as another hint, http://user.cs.tu-berlin.de/~nowozin/autopano-sift/ says "restricted usage", not "restricted distribution")15:20
mdzsounds like the consensus is that we need take no action on this at the present time15:21
* kees nods15:21
directhexas long as a decision was made by someone who isn't me, i'm happy15:21
mdznote that the bug report is from someone who asks for it to be removed: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/autopano-sift/+bug/55025515:21
ubottuLaunchpad bug 550255 in autopano-sift "SIFT algorithm is patented in US" [Undecided,Confirmed]15:21
mdzbut it's not clear that they are aware of the patent policy15:22
directhexis it my job, or someone from the TB, to respond to the bug with the outcome?15:22
mdzdirecthex, I'll include this in the minutes, and if you could follow up to the bug with a reference, I'd appreciate it15:23
directhexmdz, okay.15:23
mdz[topic] AOB15:23
MootBotNew Topic:  AOB15:23
mdz(there are no open community bugs or orphaned mailing list threads that I'm aware of)15:23
pittiI'm next on the alphabetical list15:24
mdznext chair is pitti :-)15:24
MootBotMeeting finished at 09:24.15:24
sabdflthanks all15:24
DavieyI have some concerns about mysql-*-5.0 being removed from the archive.  Those who explicitally installed 5.0 won't have a valid upgrade path15:24
pittithanks everyone15:24
Davieydamn, missed it15:24
persiaCould I solicit consensus that the DMB, and not the TB is to create new packageset teams?15:25
sabdflDaviey: was this discussed on -devel?15:25
pittiDaviey: not really a TB matter anyway; we could discuss in #u-devel IMHO15:25
Davieysabdfl: briefly15:25
sabdflpersia: -> email15:25
persiasabdfl: OK.  I'll wait for the rest to confirm mdz's comment :)15:25
mdzDaviey, ->server team?15:25
Davieymdz: ok15:25
persia(specifically https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/technical-board/2010-April/000184.html )15:26
sabdfl+1 from me if it's waiting for a poll, persia15:26
mdzpersia, I believe that's the position I took in the email thread, yes15:26
pitti+1 from me on that, too15:26
mdzand I think it got +1 from a majority15:26
persiaThanks all: I'll call that quorate :)15:26
pitti(I answered by mail already)15:26
pittipersia: notwithstanding the poll, I think it currently requires some special cjwatson magick to actually implement those teams, though15:27
persiapitti: I saw your mail confirming team approval, but not authorising the DMB to create new teams without first checking with the TB.15:27
persiaNo, it requires special TB magic, but we have a bug open against LP for that :)15:27
anyoneofusnobawk: :D18:00
bjfRoll Call18:01
* JFo here18:01
* apw waves18:01
* anyoneofus here18:02
JFohi anyoneofus18:02
MootBotMeeting started at 12:02. The chair is bjf.18:02
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]18:02
anyoneofushi JFo18:02
bjf[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting18:03
bjf[LINK] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid18:03
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/Meeting18:03
MootBotLINK received:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KernelTeam/ReleaseStatus/Lucid18:03
bjf# NOTE: '..' indicates that you are finished with your input.18:03
bjf[TOPIC] Release Metrics: (JFo)18:03
MootBotNew Topic:  Release Metrics: (JFo)18:03
JFoRelease Meeting Bugs (2 bugs, 1 blueprints)18:03
JFoRelease Targeted Bugs (266 bugs against all packages)18:03
JFo * 40 linux kernel bugs18:03
JFo * 1 linux-fsl-imx51 bugs18:03
JFo * 0 linux-ec2 bug18:03
JFo * 1 linux-mvl-dove bugs18:03
JFoMilestoned Features -18:03
JFo * 0 blueprints18:03
JFo    18:03
JFoBugs with Patches Attached:12118:03
JFoBreakdown by status:18:03
MootBotLINK received:  http://qa.ubuntu.com/reports/ogasawara/csv-stats/bugs-with-patches/linux/18:03
JFoYou will notice I have left off the milestone numbners as there isn't one18:03
bjf[TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-bug-handling (JFo)18:04
MootBotNew Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-bug-handling (JFo)18:04
JFo[apw] kerneloops -- ensure ubuntu oopses are detected correctly:TODO18:04
JFo[apw] kerneloops -- move to bugs only coming through launchpad:TODO18:04
JFo[apw] c-o-d -- we should be building the tip of lucid daily, uploading to pre-proposed:TODO18:04
JFo[apw] c-o-d -- can we build some bisect points between releases:TODO18:04
JFo[jeremyfoshee] documentation -- re-organize kernel team wiki pages :INPROGRESS18:04
bjf[LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-bug-handling18:04
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-bug-handling18:04
JFoI hope to have the proposal for the wiki pages out this week.18:05
bjf[TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review (apw)18:05
bjf[LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review18:05
MootBotNew Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review (apw)18:05
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kernel-config-review18:05
cndI'll note that there's an ftrace/profiling config I found last week that would be nice to have, will send patch out when I get a chance18:06
apwthe only outstanding issue here is the report for ubuntu-devel18:06
apwnot critical, still on my todo list18:06
bjf[TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kms (sconklin / apw)18:06
bjf[LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kms18:06
MootBotNew Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-kms (sconklin / apw)18:06
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-kms18:06
apwwe pushed in a couple of patches to disable kms for i8xx18:07
apwand for ES1000 radeon.  i suspect there will be a few more, but they18:07
apwwill have to wait till sru now18:07
bjf[TOPIC] Blueprints: kernel-lucid-apparmor-development (jjohansen)18:07
bjf[LINK] https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-apparmor-development18:07
MootBotNew Topic:  Blueprints: kernel-lucid-apparmor-development (jjohansen)18:07
MootBotLINK received:  https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/kernel-lucid-apparmor-development18:07
jjohansenfixed a lot of bugs, and apw was nice enough to pull them into lucid18:08
jjohansenI have patches for a couple other issues to SRU in testing, that I need to open bugs for (reports came in from PLD linux)18:08
jjohansenand I am revising what I hope is the last audit patch for upstreaming18:09
jjohansenalso have started looking at Bug #56733418:09
ubottuLaunchpad bug 567334 in linux "apparmor issue delays cloud-init for 240 seconds" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/56733418:09
bjf[TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: Lucid Audio Support (bjf)18:10
MootBotNew Topic:  Other Release Tasks: Lucid Audio Support (bjf)18:10
bjfMy lucid specific deliverables are all completed. Put out a pull request on a Lucid-LBM18:10
bjfupdate of alsa-driver to
bjf[TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: Lucid Better Power Mgt (cnd)18:10
MootBotNew Topic:  Other Release Tasks: Lucid Better Power Mgt (cnd)18:10
cndnothing new, I thought this was marked as completed?18:11
bjfwill be removed from agenda18:11
bjf[TOPIC] Other Release Tasks: EC2 Lucid Kernel Status (jjohansen)18:11
MootBotNew Topic:  Other Release Tasks: EC2 Lucid Kernel Status (jjohansen)18:11
jjohansenno change from last time18:12
bjf[TOPIC] Status: Lucid (apw)18:12
MootBotNew Topic:  Status: Lucid (apw)18:12
apwlucid is all frozen, we have nothing currently planned for upload before releasae18:12
apwwe are starting to collect things for SRU, but this does mean they will be SRU'd from here on in18:13
tgardnerapw, bryce thinks the radeon dual DVI patch is critical18:13
apwand require all the associated documentation to make it18:13
apwtgardner, we already had a respin for X i suspect we'll get a lot of push back18:13
apwif there is any way it can be worked round on the command line18:13
tgardnerapw, not too my knowledge.18:13
apwtgardner, is there a work around for it?18:13
tgardnerits a HW detection thing18:14
tgardnerI'm ambivalent. you can duke it out w/Bryce.18:14
apwthe release team will be most upset...  do we have tested patches yet?18:14
tgardnerI've submitted it as an SRU18:14
apwta, will have a chat with bryce and see whats what there18:14
tgardnerapw, yes to tested patches18:14
bjf[TOPIC] Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (gnarl/smb)18:15
MootBotNew Topic:  Security & bugfix kernels - Karmic/Jaunty/Intrepid/Hardy/Others (gnarl/smb)18:15
smbDapper:      2.6.15-55.83  (security)18:15
smbHardy:       2.6.24-27.68  (security)18:15
smb             2.6.24-27.69  (proposed)[27]  1/ 3 verifications done (+0)18:15
smbIntrepid:    2.6.27-17.46  (security)18:15
smbJaunty:      2.6.28-18.60  (security)18:15
smbKarmic:      2.6.31-20.58  (security)18:15
smb             2.6.31-21.59  (proposed)[27]  5/19 verifications done (+3)18:15
smb - LBM       2.6.31-20.22  (security)18:15
smb             2.6.31-21.23  (proposed)[27]  1/ 2 verifications done (+1)18:15
smb - mvl-dove  2.6.31-212.26 (security)18:15
smb             2.6.31-213.27 (proposed)[27]18:15
smb - fsl-imx51 2.6.31-109.25 (security)18:15
smb             2.6.31-111.27 (proposed)[20]  1/ 1 verifications done18:15
smb - ec2       2.6.31-109.25 (security)18:15
smb             2.6.31-110.26 (proposed)[27]18:15
smbIt might be time to think about releasing Karmic to updates. Will see what18:15
smbthe SRU team thinks of it.18:15
smbWhile being there I wondered18:15
smbwhether there is a better way for rebased topic branches to indicate ack/nack18:15
smbCurrently I could not say whether someone looked at the ec2 in proposed for example18:16
smbAs there is not a bug against it18:16
apwright ... hrm18:16
smbBut that we might think of later18:16
smbJust thought I bring it up here18:16
apwperhaps we should file a 'test this' bug for those with testers18:16
bjf[TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)18:17
MootBotNew Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Regressions (JFo)18:17
JFo957 Lucid Bugs18:17
JFoCurrent regression stats (broken down by release):18:17
JFo==== regression-potential ====18:17
JFo  * 311 lucid bugs18:17
JFo==== regression-update ====18:17
JFo  * 10 karmic bugs18:17
JFo  * 5 jaunty bugs18:17
JFo  * 2 intrepid bugs18:17
JFo  * 1 hardy bug18:17
JFo==== regression-release ====18:17
JFo  * 52 karmic bugs18:17
JFo  * 21 jaunty bugs18:17
JFo  * 11 intrepid bugs18:17
JFo  * 4 hardy bugs18:17
JFo==== regression-proposed (no change) ====18:17
JFo  * 1 karmic bug18:17
JFoplease take note of the nearly 1000 lucid bugs18:17
JFonot much else changed.18:17
bjf[TOPIC] Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)18:18
MootBotNew Topic:  Incoming Bugs: Bug day report (JFo)18:18
JFonothing to report. The kernel is frozen. Next Bug Day TBA.18:18
bjf[TOPIC] Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?18:18
MootBotNew Topic:  Open Discussion or Questions: Anyone have anything?18:18
bjfgo JFo18:19
JFoI have been made aware of a specific issue18:19
JFoApport breakage: Users fallback to an older kernel post-update and get an error indicating that the kernel they are using is invalid.18:19
JFo"the problem is: user tries to boot x.y.z-2, it fails, so they boot back to x.y.z-1, and then can't report the bug"18:19
JFois anyone aware of a method we can use to address this in the future?18:19
JFoI just wanted to mention it here18:19
JFowe can discuss offline18:20
bjfkamalm, go18:20
kamalmI am working on my first patch submission, which fixes LP: #55349818:20
ubottuLaunchpad bug 553498 in linux "Dell Studio 1558 (Arrandale) hangs on resume from suspend" [Undecided,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/55349818:20
bjfgoing ...18:21
bjfgo apw18:21
apwjust to say it seems that nomodeset works round the ATI issue we were discussing tgardner ... so probabally it can wait to SRU18:21
tgardnerapw, works for me18:21
bjfthanks everyone18:22
MootBotMeeting finished at 12:22.18:22
JFothanks bjf18:22
apwbjf ta18:22
kamalmthanks bjf18:22
sconklinthanks bjf18:22
=== yofel_ is now known as yofel
czajkowskimeeting in 3 mins folks19:58
Jiraiyathen 20 utc is not 22 german time?20:00
czajkowskiit's 20 UTC or 21 BST20:00
Mirvit's now 19 UTC20:00
Agafonov23 Moscow time :)20:01
Jiraiyahm, according to wikipedia germany is utc+1 without summer time20:02
Mirvyes, it's only 19:03 UTC now, meeting at 20:00 UTC20:04
MirvUTC doesn't do summer times20:04
_marx_hum, date; date -u20:04
Jiraiyathen the others will come to late20:04
Jiraiyatoo late20:04
ubottuCurrent time in Etc/UTC: April 20 2010, 19:04:5620:04
czajkowskisory meetin in 1 hour20:07
bcurtiswxoh BTW.. google does understand UTC.  It just translates to the timezone you have in your google settings20:08
Jiraiyahm, kde-world-clock-plasmoid says that ist 20:09 in london which should be UTC. now i'm confused20:10
aciculaJiraiya: its not utc time in london20:11
Jiraiyathen wikipedia is wrong ;)20:11
aciculawell there's a shocker20:11
bcurtiswx^^ that20:11
aciculaadjust for summertime ;)20:11
papapepThe United Kingdom moves its clocks forward by one hour during the last Sunday of March until the last Sunday of October, thus observing BST instead of GMT during this period20:12
papapepso I guess it's already 20:13 UTC20:13
Mirvyou see, UK moves clocks forward, ie. to UTC+1, but UTC is always the same20:13
aciculaBST==GMT+1 ~= UTC+120:13
papapepoh, yep20:14
papapepit's 19:14 then20:14
aciculawell in utc yeah20:14
Jiraiyai surrender ;) i would say we meet in about 45 minutes. then the others won't come too late20:14
Mirvyes, the difference between GMT ad UTC is even more interesting :)20:14
alexmthe problem was that the timeanddate.com url above still has march as the month, not april20:14
alexmtry this one: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?day=16&month=4&year=2010&hour=20&min=0&sec=0&p1=020:14
czajkowskiok this isn't a chatting idle room folks20:16
stk_CoconutCrab: where's afterlastangel?20:31
CoconutCrabngủ rồi20:31
stk_CoconutCrab: should we call him and wake him up?20:32
CoconutCrabnot neccessary20:32
effie_jayxleogg: o/20:41
czajkowskieffie_jayx: *aloha*20:42
czajkowskieffie_jayx: just the person20:42
effie_jayxczajkowski: hey there...20:43
czajkowskisee pm20:43
MootBotMeeting started at 15:00. The chair is czajkowski.21:00
MootBotCommands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]21:00
czajkowskiAloha folks21:00
huatshello !21:00
pedro_hey hey :-)21:00
MootBotLINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/Agenda21:00
kjcole_Greetings Overlords! ;-)21:00
afterlastangelgood morning (2am in Viet Nam)21:01
CoconutCrab3, not 221:01
czajkowskitodays agenda and we will be working from the top down in the items then moving onto the teams21:01
stk_afterlastangel: are you still sleepy nbow, dude21:01
v4vortexgreetings from berlin, germany21:01
stk_czajkowski: please, go on21:01
Jiraiyagreets from franconia, germany ;)21:01
czajkowski[topic]Ubuntu El Salvador Update21:01
MootBotNew Topic: Ubuntu El Salvador Update21:01
czajkowskieffie_jayx: can you please discuss this21:02
effie_jayxI just wanted to follow up on the talks regarding resolving internal issues in ubuntu el salvador21:03
effie_jayxanyone here from el salvador?21:03
effie_jayxI guess I will run down the issue for the record and it will be up to the LoCo COuncil to follow up on email21:03
effie_jayxUbuntu el salvador seems to have fallen in to a bit of fragmentation21:04
effie_jayxthere is a group of people in the members that is pretending not disregard the admins in the Salvador team21:05
effie_jayxthe last we intevinEd IN the issUe21:05
effie_jayxubuntu-sv admins had allowed David Cruz back in the team mailing list21:06
effie_jayxhowever david believes this did not happen, though I believe admins can prove this wrong21:06
=== kjcole_ is now known as kjcole
_marx_[idea] mediation21:07
effie_jayxand perhaps I believe the fact that issues are not healthy there the LoCo Council can only suggest and try to mend things21:07
MootBotIDEA received:  mediation21:07
czajkowskiok so the loco council asked the el salvador team here to talk and we've asked a few times21:08
czajkowski_marx_: please don't21:08
czajkowski[action] the loco council will follow up on this in email21:08
MootBotACTION received:  the loco council will follow up on this in email21:08
czajkowskieffie_jayx: thanks21:08
effie_jayxczajkowski: it is really shamefull that the parts won-t meet to solve this21:08
effie_jayxczajkowski: thank you and I will hope this comes to a nice resolve21:09
czajkowski[topic] Leadership CoC not given to LoCo Leads21:09
MootBotNew Topic:  Leadership CoC not given to LoCo Leads21:09
MootBotLINK received: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+bug/39297621:09
ubottuLaunchpad bug 392976 in ubuntu-community "Leadership CoC not given to LoCo Leads" [Medium,Confirmed]21:09
czajkowskithis came to light recently and I'm wondering do many locos know about this Leadership CoC21:10
czajkowskithere is also at present no way to sign this Leadership CoC in the same way there is to sign the CoC21:10
czajkowskiand with that we've created a Blueprint21:10
MootBotLINK received: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-community/+spec/ubuntu-leadership-code-of-conduct-should-be-signed-by-loco-team-leaders21:11
czajkowskiif anyone would like to suggest some ideas on it we'd appreciate it21:11
celvinDavid Cruz was readmitted to the mailing list, but on condition that he most to leave the bad attitude and focus to work for the project.21:11
czajkowskithis doesn't just effect locos  so we're not sure of the implication21:11
bejamesdefine "leader"21:12
czajkowskibejames: yes this is one issue that needs to be defined21:12
paultagIf I may interject21:12
czajkowskiso is a leader someone who is in charge of a Mailing list21:12
akgranerI have a question can you add contacts/leaders as not all team contacts are the leaders?21:12
czajkowskia webmaster21:12
paultagwhenever someone is in a position is oversight, their actions effect those who the oversee21:12
paultagit would be natural, therefore, to have anyone who is in a position of oversight to sign the LCoC21:13
czajkowskiakgraner: yes this is true and in many cases a point of contact is what is referred to in some teams as a team leader and this isn't the case21:13
czajkowskipaultag: exactly21:13
kjcoleTeam Janitor might be a more fitting term.21:13
czajkowskikjcole: nice idea21:14
bejamesdoes there need to be a separate CoC. can the existing one incorporate leadership as a sub section?21:14
kwahin my opinion this is useless, people do some stuff, they do it well and others follow because they like what has been done or going on21:14
czajkowskibejames: the Leadership CoC already exists and is rather long so I think they are rather seperate21:14
kwahwhy do we need another formality?21:14
darkness51i am from el salvador21:14
paultagkwah, so that when there are issues regarding leadership there is something to be held accountable to21:15
huatsczajkowski, I think the problem is that Leader is a word that is commonly used in many country (that re not necessary english speaking) while Team Janitr is more complicated...21:15
czajkowskikwah: becasuse there are in parts  where it referrs to matters such as graceful stepping down if you are no longer active rather than just remaning idling and not being productive in the team21:15
czajkowskihuats: true21:15
JanCkwah: basically because soem people think leadership is a gift they got from the gods  ;)21:15
czajkowskihuats: so what can we do with the term Team Leader / Point of Contact21:15
kwahmost of the time, in my experience, people do not follow such god-like leaders21:16
kjcolehuats: Admin perhaps?  Maintainer?21:16
_marx_+1 Agafonov21:16
paultagContact != Administrator in every case21:16
JanCkwah: I hope so, but there have been several issues about leaders like that who owned the keys to web space, mailing lists, etc.21:17
paultagAye, I am liking Coordinator as well21:17
huatsLeader seems fine to me21:17
paultagDo we really need to define this?21:17
_marx_leader has connotations21:17
czajkowskipaultag: yes.21:17
JanCI like the term "leader" if explained correctly21:17
kwahJanC, heh, this should not happen at the first instance and should be written in guidelines for arranging resources21:17
paultagczajkowski, I think it should be enough to say if you oversee any other member or members you need to sign the LCoC21:18
akgranerI think many teams have varying positions leadership - and that if a team identifies those positions of leadership - and people agree to those positions  - then they need to "sign" the LCoC21:18
aim1159huats: leader is someone who move a group to some point. lead. coordinator just take people together so they can selfogganise into a working group. Coordinator is better21:18
itnet7The important part that should be discussed though is that some leaders are not following the leadership CoC, Which makes provisions for team governance21:18
itnet7It doesn't matter whether they are Team contactcs or not21:18
_marx_perhaps team contact needs a more clear definition21:19
mhall119perhaps "team representative"?  Has the connotations of contact and responsibility, without the connotations of ownership or authority21:19
JanCkwah: basically, the LCoC makes it possible for everybody in a leadership position to promise to act properly21:19
czajkowskiso there seesm to be two issues21:19
huatsI agree with JanC, I think a few words can fit, but the  important is the explanation that should be given21:19
czajkowski1) the word Leader needs to be better defined21:19
bcurtiswxWhat about a team leadership structure.  There's nothing defined, but think about clubs in college.. you had a president, vice president, secretary, treasurer etc... obviously for LoCo's this would be different21:19
kjcoleRep is also not a bad choice.21:19
czajkowski2) the issue of signing the Leadership CoC21:19
paultagIMHO 1) I think it should be enough to say if you oversee any other member or members you need to sign the LCoC21:20
paultagErm, that is both21:20
huatsI like the representative word too21:20
JanCbcurtiswx: this differs between locoteam (and clubs)21:20
akgranerpaultag, +121:20
huatssince a team can have various representatives21:20
JanCpaultag: oversee people or resources21:20
mhall119paultag: at that point, why not include it as part of the standard CoC?21:20
paultagJanC, good point.21:21
kwahmhall119, +121:21
JanCit should also apply to server admins etc.21:21
czajkowskimhall119: as it's very long21:21
czajkowskibut perhaps we can look into it.21:21
paultagmhall119, I don't disagree, but this is the state that it's in currently, and both documents exist and have existed for a while21:21
akgranerI don't think people would read it if it was part of the CoC21:21
mhall119as even a one-time event organizer may need to step down gracefully21:21
mhall119is the LCoC that long?21:21
paultagmhall119, no. Let me find it for you21:22
akgraneror that would just glance over it with taking time to pay attention to it fully21:22
czajkowskithe idea of them being seperate is that if someone wants to become a leader they will take the time to read this dcument mixing it up in the CoC means they may forget about it21:22
paultag( for everyone )21:22
Agafonovwill the change of CoC require to re-sign it?21:22
kjcoleAnd "oversee" suggests I have some sort of magical powers.  Yeah, I suppose I can kick people off IRC, mailing lists, etc.21:22
JanCmhall119: peopel don't read anything longer than 1 small paragraph  ;)21:22
czajkowskimhall119: it's linked on the blueprint21:22
* kwah thinks that he saw it only once... shortly21:22
MootBotLINK received:  http://www.ubuntu.com/community/leadership-conduct21:22
mhall119czajkowski: hopefully we don't have people forgetting about what's in the CoC that often21:22
czajkowskimhall119: we do :)21:22
mhall119hmm, that is kind of long to be an add-on21:22
czajkowskimhall119: :)21:22
czajkowskiright so what I' suggest is the following21:23
kjcoleAnd get sucked into petty debates about such decisions, but please, no.21:23
czajkowski1 - LoCO council to rewiew the terminalogyy and better define the word team and report back21:23
czajkowskisecondly look for more input from the loco contact list on "signing the Leadership CoC" which is what this was all about21:23
paultagI think that is a thoughtful move.21:24
huatsczajkowski, +121:24
mhall119should thouse be in [ACTION] tags?21:24
czajkowskias I just dont want to run out of time21:24
kwah1 is about word Leader ?21:24
_marx_+1 on the second21:24
czajkowski[action] LoCO council to rewiew the terminalogyy and better define the word team and report back21:24
MootBotACTION received:  LoCO council to rewiew the terminalogyy and better define the word team and report back21:24
czajkowski[action] look for more input from the loco contact list on "signing the Leadership CoC" which is what this was all about21:24
MootBotACTION received:  look for more input from the loco contact list on "signing the Leadership CoC" which is what this was all about21:24
czajkowskimhall119: wanted to check first before I made the decision21:25
_marx_hopefully all terminology21:25
czajkowski[topic] LoCo Health check 3rd Tuesday of the month 6-8pm UTC #ubuntu-locoteams21:25
MootBotNew Topic:  LoCo Health check 3rd Tuesday of the month 6-8pm UTC #ubuntu-locoteams21:25
czajkowskiI just wanted to announce we're setting up a  loco health check session on IRC once a month for teams to come along and ask questions21:25
dcedatahi all :)21:25
czajkowskiif they need a hand with events or want to ask for advice21:26
czajkowskiwe'll cover topics you want help with21:26
* rhkfin seuraa kahta kanavaa ja kattoo Housea samanaikaisesti.. katotaan mikä kärsii.. kaikki luultavasti..21:26
czajkowskiand also be inviting people in to give feedback on areas21:26
MootBotLINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LoCoCouncil/LoCoHealthCheck21:26
czajkowskiwill be mailing out to teams shortly but if you have items you'd like covered please let me know21:26
czajkowskiany thoughts on this ?21:27
kwahwhy not just a mailing list discussion?21:27
_marx_mailing to all loco teams?21:27
itnet7kwah: you're not forced to attend21:27
itnet7and the logs will be available21:27
czajkowskibecause mails drag on and this is just to help teams who want to ask questions21:27
kwahitnet7, got it, just asking21:27
czajkowskiand also get feedback on topics21:27
bejamesdownside of IRC is time zones. It's 6:30am in Aus :(21:28
itnet7kwah: didn't mean it that way :-)21:28
czajkowskikwah: you may not want to come , that's fine others may want to21:28
itnet7it has some really good potential though!21:28
czajkowskiif you;d like topics covered please let us know21:28
leoggif there are people from the Spanish community that needs help, I'll be more than glad to translate during the session21:28
czajkowskileogg: thank you21:28
kwahczajkowski, with followups on mailing list? like digest etc?21:28
czajkowskikwah: I'll post the logs21:29
leoggczajkowski: you're welcome21:29
czajkowskiright moving on to Approvals/Re approvals21:29
czajkowski[topic] Mexico LoCo21:29
MootBotNew Topic:  Mexico LoCo21:29
czajkowskiwho's here from Mexico ????21:29
czajkowskiok we'll move on21:30
czajkowski[action] mexio  loco application taken to ML21:30
MootBotACTION received:  mexio  loco application taken to ML21:30
czajkowski[topic] Finland LoCo21:31
MootBotNew Topic:  Finland LoCo21:31
czajkowskiwho's here from Finland ??21:31
huatsnice to see you guys !21:31
paultagNice showing!21:31
czajkowskiALOHA!! :D21:31
kjcoleWhat, no right handed people? ;-)21:32
paultagWell done, guys and gals :)21:32
MootBotLINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FinnishTeam/ReApprovalApplication21:32
czajkowskiMirv: hey so want to tell us what ye guys have been up to21:32
jussiczajkowski: we have been busy :D21:33
Mirvczajkowski: lately the focus has been understandably on lucid, and there is in addition to other preparation work a nice big corporate-co-operation release party happening in May21:33
Mirvwe've existed since Februrary 2005 so we've a rather long history already21:33
MirvI dug out the original approval IRC meeting one day21:33
czajkowskiright so how do you organise things? who does what or how does it work21:34
Mirvwe've a joint discussion channels of IRC, mailing lists and forums, on the focus of using mailing lists and forums for any important stuff21:35
Mirvwe lack in formal organization, but compensate with "just do it" attitude21:35
paultagMirv, You guys have a very large network of members, have you guys used that and contributed to events such as the Global Jam ( or smiler ), or done translations?21:35
Mirvbi-weekly meetings are nowadays held on IRC21:36
jussiRegular meetings happen on irc.21:36
Mirv(with AJAX IRC links offered)21:36
paultagsimilar * :)21:36
czajkowskiMirv: nice do you post the minutes of the meeting to the mailing list or post to the forum ?21:36
Mirvpaultag: we've participated in eg. open weeks when translated sessions were tried, among else.21:36
Mirvcjohnston: wiki, actually21:36
heikkihttp://wiki.ubuntu-fi.org/Yhteis%C3%B6n_kokous (in Finnish....)21:36
MootBotLINK received:  http://wiki.ubuntu-fi.org/Yhteis%C3%B6n_kokous (in Finnish....)21:36
jussiUsually the minutes are translated into nglish for those with limited finnish abilities.21:36
Mirvmeant that to czajkowski21:37
jussiJust give in the english irc channel though.21:37
czajkowskigood to know21:37
czajkowskiMirv: is there any issue you;ve had to overcome ?21:37
Mirvczajkowski: mainly the lack of organization leading to lack of people willing to pull the strings needed21:38
Mirvothers can correct me :)21:38
czajkowskiMirv: so how did you overcome this ?21:38
czajkowskior anyone else jump in :)21:39
Mirvczajkowski: well this bi-weekly meeting, which is quite new actually, solved at least part of the problem since current issues are actually formally dealt with21:39
czajkowskiMirv: so meetings helped, good to know21:39
Mirvczajkowski: and well, in the past there was a bit of a problem with ubuntu.fi, which we then happily co-operated with so it joined ubuntu-fi.org21:39
rhkfinThe lack of coordination and commitment are maybe the issues we have. The irc meetings help us overcome the lack of coordination nicely, though.21:39
czajkowskirhkfin: thanks21:40
czajkowskiitnet7: huats paultag leogg any other comments ?21:40
* jpds hugs http://fi.archive.ubuntu.com/ while he's at it.21:40
itnet7Not really, I was wondering a bit21:40
Mobeand teams should report their progress on the meeting, so they are more responsible nowadays21:40
huatshonnestly I haven't21:40
paultagI'm good czajkowski21:40
czajkowskiMobe: exactly21:40
itnet7why they aren't using the standard wiki pages, although theirs are very nice!21:40
huatsI am impressed by the very good work you are doing21:40
leoggnone, quite impressive team21:40
itnet7But that's about it21:40
itnet7Just wouldn't want to lose everything over hosting discrepancies21:41
Mirvitnet7: the l10n of wiki.ubuntu.com is not perfect, among else21:41
czajkowski[vote]right so please vote on the re approval of Finland LoCo21:41
MootBotPlease vote on: right so please vote on the re approval of Finland LoCo.21:41
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot21:41
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting21:41
MootBot+1 received from czajkowski. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 121:41
MootBot+1 received from paultag. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 221:41
MootBot+1 received from leogg. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 321:41
MootBot+1 received from itnet7. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 421:41
paultagI have no reservations, really good showing21:41
MootBotPrivate +1 vote received. 5 for, 0 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now 521:41
czajkowskime and the bot are gonna have a falling out21:42
MootBotFinal result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 521:42
Mirv(btw *ubuntu-fi.org is on Canonical servers)21:42
czajkowskiCongrats finland!21:42
rhkfinKiitos - thanks you!21:42
itnet7darn bots!21:42
Mirvthank you :)21:42
leogggreat job finland!21:42
topylithanks all for hearing us21:42
itnet7Good Job ubuntu-fi.org21:43
czajkowski[topic]Català  LoCo21:43
NakkelThank you! :)21:43
MootBotNew Topic: Català  LoCo21:43
czajkowskiwho's here from the Català  LoCo???21:43
itnet7Thanks Mirv wasn't sure about that good to know!21:43
czajkowskiI was wondering :)21:43
czajkowskiwelcome folks21:43
paultagHowdy Català :)21:43
MootBotLINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CatalanTeam/ReapprovalApplication201021:43
itnet7Hey there rafael_carreras alexm and team!!21:44
alexmitnet7: cheers!21:44
czajkowskirafael_carreras: care to tell us about your team21:44
rafael_carrerashi itnet721:44
rafael_carreraswe are here for a long time21:45
rafael_carrerasand you can see a lot of things done21:45
czajkowskithat you are ,you've done a lot and were great hosts in Barcelona21:45
alexmczajkowski: thanks :)21:45
itnet7Very Solid Team!21:46
paultagrafael_carreras, Same question to you guys, you guys seem very active, have you used your member network to do testing, translations, and other related sports?21:46
rafael_carreraswe run Global Jams every six months21:46
paultagrafael_carreras, Outstanding. I saw the Ubuntu Remix for Català, and I love it. Really great idea, by the way.21:46
czajkowskirafael_carreras: have you had any issue since you first were approved?21:46
rafael_carreraswe have another team for translations21:47
czajkowskihttp://www.ossbarcamp.com/wp-content/themes/ossbarcamp/logo6.png  thanks to ye guys :)21:47
MootBotLINK received:  http://www.ossbarcamp.com/wp-content/themes/ossbarcamp/logo6.png  thanks to ye guys :)21:47
rafael_carrerasczajkowski: i don't remember big issues21:47
rafael_carrerasor small, right now21:47
czajkowskirafael_carreras: how do you share out items that need to be done?21:47
rafael_carrerason our special team mailing list21:48
rafael_carrerasand wiki21:48
czajkowskispecial? how special?21:48
rafael_carreraswe have a todo list somewhere in the wiki21:48
rafael_carreraswe have two separete ailing lists21:48
rafael_carrerasone for technical issues and another for team related events21:49
czajkowskinice idea21:49
SiscoGarciaand another one for translations21:49
paultaginteresting idea21:49
paultaghow is that working for you guys rafael_carreras?21:49
papapepczajkowski, to avoid too much organization noise in the helping list21:49
czajkowskirafael_carreras: and others, any other comments to make to the council before we vote?21:49
leoggrafael_carreras: is the events list an open list?21:49
=== nobawk``` is now known as nobawk
alexmleogg: it is and the archive is public21:50
rafael_carreraspaultag: i think rather nicely, problem could be non-communication between lists21:50
papapepleogg, all the loco resources are fully open21:50
rafael_carrerasleoog yes, it is21:50
SiscoGarciawe've intended to have mainly translated lucid version https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu/lucid/+lang/ca/21:50
leoggalexm, papapep, cool21:50
czajkowski[vote] please vote on the Re approval of the Català  LoCo21:50
MootBotPlease vote on:  please vote on the Re approval of the Català  LoCo.21:50
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot21:50
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting21:50
czajkowskiSiscoGarcia: nice21:50
MootBot+1 received from czajkowski. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 121:50
MootBot+1 received from paultag. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 221:50
MootBot+1 received from itnet7. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 321:51
MootBot+1 received from leogg. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 421:51
SiscoGarciaczajkowski, thanks21:51
paultagkeep up the great work rafael_carreras and the Català team :)21:51
MootBotPrivate +1 vote received. 5 for, 0 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now 521:51
MootBotFinal result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 521:51
rafael_carrerasthanks paultag21:51
huatsContinue like that !21:51
papapepthanks to all :)21:51
rafael_carrerasthaks all21:51
SiscoGarciathanks everybody21:52
leoggawesome ubuntaires! :)21:52
itnet7Very good job thanks for all your teams efforts!!21:52
papapepleogg ;)21:52
czajkowski[topic]DC LoCo Re Approval21:52
MootBotNew Topic: DC LoCo Re Approval21:52
paultagAh, yes, some Americans :)21:52
czajkowskiDC team ?21:52
* maco pokes kjcole21:52
MootBotLINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DistrictOfColumbiaTeam/DistrictOfColumbiaTeamApprovalApplication21:53
itnet7hey there maco, crimsun \o/21:53
macodo we get the longest team name award?21:53
huatshello maco and crimsun21:53
macoi suggested something like PlaceInTheUSThatIsNotAState(Yet)ButMaybeSomeDay....21:53
kjcoleI've always favored Brain-Washington.21:54
bcurtiswxfirst parts too close to my name, i'd get too many e-mails21:54
paultagmaco, :)21:54
czajkowskimaco: did you name it21:54
paultagSo, who is contact?21:54
paultagTell us a bit about the last few events you have held21:54
kjcoleC'est moi.21:54
paultagkjcole, :)21:54
macoczajkowski: when we learned it was supposed to be the full state name not the abbreviation, we were making jokes about the fact that we dont live in a state21:54
paultagkjcole, So, tell us a bit about your LoCo, some of the best events you have had in the last two years21:55
kjcoleWe've been around since the early days.21:55
kjcoleWe have t21:55
kjcoleDamned keyboard....21:55
paultagtake your time ;)21:55
kjcolewe have Installfests, and show up at large events to distribute cds.21:56
jelknerwe have yearly presence at a folk festival21:56
czajkowskiso howw are events organised, how do you figure who does what ?21:56
kjcoleFOSE and takoma park folk fest are real regulars.21:56
jelknerthe email list and irc channel21:56
kjcoleI generally find opportunities and send out mailings21:57
macoand wait for people to raise their hands21:57
jelknerwhich they mostly do ;-)21:57
itnet7How many of your members participate in the weekly bugjams?21:57
kjcoleI am a prime example of why "leader" is a bad term and "contact" is a good one.21:57
itnet7:-) kjcole !21:57
paultagkjcole, Aye, I'm in the same boat as you ;)21:57
czajkowskikjcole: we have a similar issue over here in ireland, but not on topic now :)21:57
bcurtiswx5-ish in the bugjams21:58
macotheres a core group of about 5 people who do most of the stuff21:58
itnet7thanks maco and bcurtiswx21:58
jelknerkjcole leads by example, and does a darn good job of it!21:58
paultagmaco, I know you are MOTU, but how productive are the regulars?21:58
itnet7thanks jelkner !21:58
paultagI meant that as nicely as I can21:58
kjcoleLately, there has been an increase in opportunities (Digital Capital Week, DC Community Broadband Summit, etc.)21:58
paultagthat came off bad. How much do you get done on a weekly basis *21:58
macopaultag: well crimsun's a core dev and a regular ;-) and we've got another guy in the loco going for MOTU at the next meeting...21:59
paultagmaco, killer!21:59
itnet7very cool!21:59
crimsunI think our technical contributions to the distributions stand by themselves.21:59
jelknerwe are active in the USR project21:59
bcurtiswxim learning Python to better patch and eventually go for MOTU21:59
jelknerand the motu is packaging a lot of python stuff21:59
bcurtiswxother than my Bug Traiging21:59
czajkowskiso how do you cater for the regular user and get them to become more active??21:59
kjcoleSome of us do a fair amount of collaboration, cross-pollination w/ OLPC21:59
jelkner(the aspiring motu, that is)21:59
crimsunczajkowski: several of us speak (have spoken) at various conferences and user group meetings.22:00
czajkowskicrimsun: oh nice idea22:00
macoczajkowski: regular folks are always welcome to the bugjams if they'd like to learn.  one of the now-regular bug jammers, ted, just showed up one day to a jam for a "how to triage" lesson22:00
czajkowskioh great good to hear22:00
macoi think that was a Global Jam ago22:01
paultagmaco, do many people become "regulars" after that first bit of getting involved?22:01
itnet7and have also given plenary sessions at UDS :-)22:01
czajkowskiso where do you see yourselves in the next 2 years?22:01
czajkowskihow do you plan to go forward22:01
kjcoleRetired on a beach.;-)22:01
* jelkner can answer that in a limited fashion, since he is specifically involved in the edu stuff22:02
czajkowskijelkner: fire ahead :)22:02
macopaultag: we dont get a whole lot of new folks showing up at events, but the only one i know of who showed up once and not again did so because she moved away for uni22:02
jelknerwe will continue to support and test the Ubuntu Sugar Remix project22:02
paultagmaco, outstanding.22:03
czajkowskibtw, nice layout of your roadmpa, very clear22:03
jelknerwe will work on getting TurtleArt and other Sugar software ported to gnome22:03
czajkowski[vote] please vote on the re approval of the DC LoCo22:04
MootBotPlease vote on:  please vote on the re approval of the DC LoCo.22:04
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot22:04
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting22:04
jelknerwe will develop educational materials for teaching python on Ubuntu22:04
MootBot+1 received from paultag. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 122:04
macojelkner: ssshh time ;-)22:04
itnet7very cool jelkner22:04
MootBot+1 received from czajkowski. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 222:04
MootBot+1 received from itnet7. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 322:04
MootBotPrivate +1 vote received. 4 for, 0 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now 422:04
MootBot+1 received from leogg. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 522:04
MootBotFinal result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 522:04
czajkowskiCongrats DC Loco22:04
czajkowskikeep up the good work22:04
itnet7Very nice work DC!!22:04
kjcoleA lot of us have a jones for the education crowd, and if things go well with DC Public Library, I'm hoping to se opportunity there.22:04
paultaggreat job DC loco. Keep up the great work kjcole22:04
crimsunthanks, folks22:04
bcurtiswxthanks all22:04
czajkowskiright we're going to keep going22:05
czajkowski[topic]Denmark LoCo Re approval22:05
MootBotNew Topic: Denmark LoCo Re approval22:05
MootBotLINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DanishTeam/ReApprovalApplication22:05
czajkowskiDenmark ???22:05
czajkowskiwho's here ?22:05
czajkowskiAloha :)22:06
jarlenwe made it :-)22:06
huatshello dannemark22:06
sound-1000hello world22:06
czajkowskiis Jesper here?22:06
jarlenI'm Jesper22:06
czajkowskijarlen: okie dokie.22:07
czajkowskijarlen: can you tell us how you're loco is doing and how ye've done things since your approval22:07
jarlenWell, I've believe we're doing allright. About 2 years ago we formed an official organization in Denmark with a board.22:08
jarlenThis board is mostly for legal purposes, to be able to handle bank accounts and money, the team is mainly handled by a twice-monthly meeting22:09
czajkowskijarlen: meetings on IRC?22:09
jarlenYes, IRC-meeting22:09
czajkowskijarlen: are the minutes published publically for those who can't attend ?22:09
jarlenMost day-to-day stuff is handled on a mailing lists though22:10
jarlenYes, we have logs and summaries of our meetings22:10
jarlenand the schedule is usually handled about a week in advance, so people can try to prepare22:10
czajkowskiI see ont he roadmap you have a Lucid+1 Bootcamp  can you tell us some more about this ?22:11
kjollerJust in time, I see :)22:11
itnet7That did seem very intersting!22:11
kjollerThe Lucid+1 Bootcamp is a local mini version of UDS22:11
kjoller(I've never been to UDS, so I can be mistaken)22:11
jarlenYes, well our main focus the past long time has been on real life events, mostly release parties, and attending larger events22:11
jarlenthe bootcamp is a new idea, which kjoller presented when we started planning Lucid release22:12
huatsvery interesting indeed22:12
kjollerThe basic concept is to meet somewhere central in the country and make project-plans for the next 6 months22:12
jarlenWhere we'll try to get the team together for a community oriented event where we will try to summarize our release party, and start planning the next one22:12
leoggjarlen: how do you elect the board members of the organization?22:13
czajkowskioh neat idea, so a day to work on a roadmap face to face?22:13
jarlenczajkowski: pretty much, yes22:13
kjollerczajkowski: Excactly22:13
itnet7nice Idea!22:13
huatsyep I think so22:13
bejamesIs there an existing wiki that we can use to capture all these great ideas that the LOCOs are mentioning?22:14
czajkowskioh please do let us know how you get on with this22:14
czajkowskiit sounds like a great idea22:14
jarlenleogg: we have a yearly meeting, announced about a month in advance, which focuses on the legal part of the team22:14
JanCjarlen: taht's a legal requirement, I suppose?22:14
itnet7bejames: another good idea!22:14
jarlenJanC: it is indeed22:14
Prettobejames: that is a good idea too22:14
JanCjarlen: and mostly a formality probably?22:14
leoggbejames: +1 :)22:14
czajkowskijarlen: might be an idea to mail the loco contact list and let them know about this kind of idea ?22:15
jarlenJanC: well, yes, it's a legal issue, but we try to use it for pragmatic purposes as well22:15
czajkowskiother teams may be interested in hearing about it22:15
jarlenby trying to get new people to take part in the new board, and the elections, thereby promoting participation frmo new people22:16
jarlenczajkowski: indeed, we should do that when we get a bit better overview of what's gonna happen22:16
paultagjarlen, Have you guys been working on translating Ubuntu at all?22:16
czajkowskijarlen: sounds like a plan!22:16
czajkowskiany other comments from the team that you want to tell the council ?22:17
jarlenpaultag: Most open source translations into danish is handled by Dansk-gruppen (danish group), they have been doing a great job for a long time before Ubuntu even existed22:17
paultagjarlen, are any LoCo members a part of that team?22:17
jarlenso no, we havn't done much through the LoCo, but encouraged people to join dansk-gruppen, and a lot of our members do a great job there22:17
huatsok any developper ?22:18
jarlenincluding AJenbo who also organized a translation jam for the last global jam, some weeks ago22:18
itnet7Thanks AJenbo !22:18
jarlenwe have at least 1 MOTU, that I'm aware of22:18
paultagaye, thanks AJenbo :)22:18
huatsok great22:18
jarlenand an #ubuntu IRC op, I believe22:18
huatsSo you are active in many aspects22:19
huatswhich is great22:19
czajkowskiok so I think we're ready to vote22:19
czajkowski[vote] please vote on the re approval of the Denmark LoCo22:19
MootBotPlease vote on:  please vote on the re approval of the Denmark LoCo.22:19
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot22:19
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting22:19
jarlenand we've gotten a handfull of official Ubuntu members during the last couple of months22:19
MootBot+1 received from czajkowski. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 122:19
MootBot+1 received from paultag. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 222:19
MootBot+1 received from itnet7. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 322:19
jarlenand we're still running our podcast :-)22:19
MootBotPrivate +1 vote received. 4 for, 0 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now 422:19
MootBot+1 received from leogg. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 522:19
MootBotFinal result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 522:19
czajkowskicongrats folks22:20
paultagwell done. Keep up the great work jarlen22:20
leoggcongrats dk!22:20
itnet7Very nice work Congratulations!22:20
* jarlen bows22:20
paultagAJenbo, keep hacking away. Great work with translations22:20
jarlenthanks a lot :-)22:20
* sbc cheers22:20
czajkowski[topic] Approval of North Carolina LoCo22:20
MootBotNew Topic:  Approval of North Carolina LoCo22:20
czajkowskiwho's here from the NC Team22:20
holsteinNC in the house.. w00t22:20
* czajkowski waits to be run over 22:20
internalkernelw00t w00t!!22:20
* paultag steps back22:21
_marx_winston-salem here22:21
AJenbopaultag, thanks :)22:21
MootBotLINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NorthCarolinaTeam22:21
czajkowskiAloha folks22:21
AJenbopaultag, hacking on linuxBios as we speek ^^22:21
akgranerwhat do you want to know 1st from us? :-)22:21
holsteinhello czajkowski22:21
czajkowskiok so can akgraner please tell us a bit about the loco please22:22
czajkowskihow did ye start off ?22:22
akgraneryeppers - it was started in 2007 by vivardi22:22
akgranerwe have the mailing list, forums Irc22:23
akgranerFB, twitter, identi.ca and a new blog site as well22:23
akgranerwe have been growing slow but steady since then22:23
akgranernow we are in 4 major areas of NC22:24
czajkowskigood to hear22:24
czajkowskiso you've been around 3 years, what made you decide to go now for approval ??22:24
akgraner_marx_, can you add to that at all?22:24
akgranerwe are really active and would like to get the benefits afforded to approved teams22:24
akgranersuch as the CD packs, and when we are at conferences the conference materials22:25
_marx_being one of those US states that takes 8 hours to drive across we have developed small teams across the state22:25
akgranerin order to represent the community as an "official" team'22:25
czajkowskiakgraner: ok22:25
czajkowskiSo how does the team organise events>?22:26
akgranerwe have many different approaches22:26
MootBotLINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NorthCarolinaTeam/ApprovalApplication22:26
akgranerbut basically - we decided what we want to do22:26
akgranerthen we pick a place22:27
akgranerand a time22:27
leoggakgraner: nice application :)22:27
akgranerthen we start inviting people22:27
akgranerleogg, thanks :-)22:27
akgranerteamwork :-)22:27
paultagakgraner, So, what's some of the best events you have done in the last year - two years?22:27
holsteinIRC helps, #ubuntu-us-nc is usually pretty active22:27
akgranerGlobal Jams, Helped with Southeast Linux Fest, Helped Plan and Staff Atlanta Linux Fest, Ubuntu Hours in Winston and Asheville, Team helping lead 2 LUG groups - WNCLUG and GCLUG group.  We've have members that have also helped with Ubuntu User Days, as well as Ubuntu Open Week.  We plan multiple release parties each cycyle as well.22:27
paultagakgraner, I also met you at OLF, there were some NC guys and gals that came out my way IIRC22:28
akgraneroh yeah we were at OLF too22:28
paultagakgraner, :)22:28
paultagakgraner, What's your plan moving forward if you get approved?22:29
akgranerwe want to maintain those things we have been doing22:29
internalkernelkeep promoting and converting... :)22:29
_marx_improve on global jams22:29
leoggakgraner: you're planning on getting involved in the US mentorship project? As of today, do you collaborate with other LoCo teams in the US or abroad?22:29
akgraneralso helping more in the greater ubuntu community22:30
akgranergetting more people involved with ubuntu projects across the board22:30
JFolike giving talks all over the place :)22:30
akgranerleogg, yes - CA, and FL ad well as GA22:30
huatsThis is something that I really enjoy in US LoCo is the inter loco actions :)22:31
leoggakgraner: nice! :)22:31
akgranerabroad - I helped the Israel team learn mootbot-uk22:31
huatsso keep doing that22:31
akgranerwe are also looking at ways to get Ubuntu to the military bases22:31
akgranerslow process but in time22:31
czajkowskiakgraner: _marx_ what have ye found difficult to do and how have you overcome this??22:31
paultagAh! Never even thought of that. Interesting akgraner, how has that been working?22:31
_marx_czajkowski: building a more involved membership i think has been the most difficult22:32
internalkernelI'd have to second that _marx_22:32
akgranerpaultag, slow as you have to get someone to let you promote it at various meetings on post  - so it is two fold - create a demand through the free stuff, and then also help promote the GSA schedule stuff22:32
_marx_we have more facebook members that launchpad members22:33
paultagakgraner, :)22:33
akgraneryes the mailing list is not as active as it could be...I think we need to pay more attention to the care and feeding of the forums22:33
internalkerneland having several areas that are very active which are not very local to each other...22:33
czajkowski_marx_: and how have you delt with that ?22:34
akgranerhowever there is a core group of people who meet almost daily in irc and we come up with ways to cope and new ideas to try an pitch to the teams22:34
_marx_by trying to find new users and tickle the brains of existing users / members22:35
internalkerneland that has reflected in our the increase in involvement22:35
paultagakgraner, What's been the biggest issue you guys and gals have faced WRT starting and maintaining the LoCo22:35
JFohaving such a large state :)22:35
akgranerbiggest issue - to me was figuring out how to divide and conquer so to say22:35
paultagJFo, Heard that! I'm over in Ohio :)22:35
paultagakgraner, interesting, do you mind going into that a bit more?22:36
_marx_we started slowly due to a lack of push from the founder22:36
JFowe tend to drive a lot :)22:36
JFopaultag, :)22:36
czajkowskiakgraner: are there any issues your team has encountered and how have you handled them?22:36
_marx_i started pushing in late 08 early 0922:36
akgranerso the team has naturally divided into 4 areas - then we have those natural leaders that arise in those areas22:37
paultagakgraner, has the collaboration been stable and sustained?22:37
akgranerand from their we coordinate or efforts22:37
* bejames afk - taking the kids to school :(22:37
akgraneryes since early 2009  - things have been gaining momentum and flowing nicely22:38
holsteinthe lines of communication are always open22:38
akgraner_marx_, holstein, bac JFo internalkernel anything to add?22:38
internalkernelwe rock...22:38
* holstein just happy to be here :)22:39
_marx_irc regulars are much of the core group22:39
akgranerwe also hold 2 meetings per month22:39
akgranerwhich helps22:39
JFowe do indeed rock :-)22:39
_marx_instituted two ubuntu hours in the state22:39
internalkernelwe host the WNClug meeting first Saturday in ASheville every month...22:39
akgranerusing mootbot-uk helps get the logs out faster and in an organized manner22:39
czajkowski_marx_: I was there when you go the channel logged, has this helped getting folks who don't use irc interested, do you have many people on IRC who have ops??22:39
holsteinyup, the WNCLUG is all about ubuntu22:40
bacakgraner:  did you mention our release parties?  we've had one or two for the last three releases i believe.22:40
_marx_czajkowski: 3 ops22:40
holsteinlucid release party next meeting22:40
huatsHad you faced some conflicts ? and how did you handle them ?22:40
holsteinin asheville22:40
akgranerbac, yep mentioned them22:40
czajkowskiok so I think we're ready to vote guys22:40
huatsczajkowski, I asked a question :)22:40
huatsHave you faced some conflicts ? and how did you handle them ?22:41
czajkowskihuats: sorry thought bac answered that22:41
akgranerhuats, yes - I think early on  - my enthusiasm for community was overwhelming at times22:41
_marx_huats: none we haven't been able to resolve amickably22:41
czajkowskijust a tad :)22:41
itnet7no, not you akgraner !22:41
huatsczajkowski, sorry I haven't seen the answer... damn chocolate which is not at the same level than the computer :)22:41
akgranerand this caused some  - moments of hold up...wait.. what..22:42
JFohee hee22:42
czajkowski_marx_: can you elaborate please?22:42
_marx_well private messages, and emails, how are you?22:42
huatsakgraner, enthusiams is more than needed and you have plenty so that is great :)22:43
JFoI was very involved for a while, but my current position has pulled me away a bit. I was glad to see internalkernel and holstein step up both before I pulled away and have continued to increase their involvement since.22:43
_marx_yeah, i know emacs sux etc...22:43
czajkowskigood stuff22:43
huatsgreat, thanks for the answer then22:43
holsteinJFo: :)22:43
czajkowski[vote] please vote on the Approval of the North Carolina Team22:43
MootBotPlease vote on:  please vote on the Approval of the North Carolina Team.22:43
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot22:43
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting22:43
MootBot+1 received from czajkowski. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 122:43
MootBotPrivate +1 vote received. 2 for, 0 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now 222:43
MootBot+1 received from paultag. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 322:43
MootBot+1 received from itnet7. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 422:44
czajkowskikinda  ano brainer really :)22:44
MootBot+1 received from leogg. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 522:44
MootBotFinal result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 522:44
paultagOutstanding work akgraner, and I saw that you got the Fridge editor spot. Be sure to get something about this up there :)22:44
czajkowskicongrats North Carolina!22:44
leogggreat job guys!22:44
paultagGreat job NC!22:44
akgranerI will :-)  Thanks everyone22:44
itnet7Congratulations akgraner and Team, Y'all have worked real hard!! Good Job!22:44
JFothanks :)22:44
huatsKeep doing good stuffs !22:44
internalkernelthanks everyone!22:44
* _marx_ goes to dance under the maple trees22:44
internalkernelmaple trees?22:44
akgranerhuats, we will do our best!22:44
czajkowski[topic]Brazilian Team Re approval22:45
MootBotNew Topic: Brazilian Team Re approval22:45
leoggolá! :p22:46
czajkowskiAloha folks22:46
Prettocan we start?22:46
paultagyou may Pretto, give us the run-down :)22:46
MootBotLINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BrazilianTeam/ReApprovalApplication22:46
Prettowell, we still doing our best here in Brazil,  I proundly say that we are the 3º most active team in translation22:47
Prettowe started promoting jams on irc to translation and documentation22:48
Prettonext 27º we will make a wiki takeover for lucid22:48
Prettoubuntu-br are always invited to participate in community events and even business events22:49
czajkowskion your reapproal page you don't really tell us about events you've been doing since you've been approved22:50
Prettowe have a vey active irc support22:50
Prettoczajkowski: that can be viewed here http://loco.ubuntu.com/teams/ubuntu-br22:51
czajkowskiPretto: Andre_Gondim can you tell us what you've been doing since you've been approved please?22:51
Prettoczajkowski: since approved we were been on the greatest events heree22:52
Andre_GondimWe invited and promoved the regional mail lists to do some events, like that the Pretto reported22:53
Prettoczajkowski: Like FISL and Latinoware22:53
czajkowskiPretto: on the LD those are events in the future22:53
czajkowskiwhat have you done in the past22:53
Prettoczajkowski: told ya about that two ones, and always present at Installfests22:53
leoggPretto: do you collaborate upstream with translations?22:54
Andre_Gondimlast year I spoker with the team in to events22:54
huatsPretto, how are you dealing with such a big country ? you mention many teams is there a collaboration ?22:54
Andre_Gondimleogg, yes, specially with gnome and kde22:54
Andre_Gondimczajkowski, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Presentations you can see our participation here22:55
Prettoleogg: not recently, as council member and developer i am most active on mailing list and irc22:55
leoggAndre_Gondim: great :)22:55
paultagPretto, How are the BZ Forums?22:55
Andre_Gondimleogg, ow, and Pidgin too22:55
Prettopaultag: our forum numbers 355.314 Mensages and 61.133 Topics by 46.751 Users in http://ubuntuforum-br.org/22:55
paultagPretto, FYI the link on the wiki is broken ( http://forum.ubuntu-br.org/ )22:56
paultagPretto, the application *22:56
Prettopaultag: that is why we will have a wiki takeover next week22:56
itnet7Pretto: Does your team participate in Ubuntu Hours, or any other re-occuring face to face team events?22:57
Prettoitnet7: not really, our subteams does that, like ubuntu-br-sp22:57
huatsPretto, So it is realted to my previous question : how are you dealing with such a big country ? you mention many teams is there a collaboration ?22:58
czajkowskiPretto: Andre_Gondim ok we're not going to vote22:59
Prettohuats: we are trying to keep subteams in contact, those events alway tries to get one member for a subteam to attend at another event22:59
czajkowskibut we'd like to make a suggestion22:59
czajkowskiyou application is lacking details and we'd like to see more information on this and then come back22:59
* kwah wondering what other details are needed 23:00
kwahczajkowski, may you be more specific? if I may ask23:00
czajkowskikwah: sure, is this your team ?23:01
Prettoczajkowski: ok, I will fill all information needed there for the next time, I thougt that additional information could be said here23:01
paultagkwah, a list of events that the team has had a presence at, or run would be a great start23:01
kwahczajkowski, nope, but we may face the same questions23:01
czajkowskikwah: you can see by the previous teams we've gone through tonight, they've laid out very easily to read all the events they've run23:01
czajkowskilinked to posts23:01
czajkowskihad photos23:01
czajkowskiit's not a vote on their approval more we'd like to see more detail and then come back23:02
kwahpt_BR + google translate would suffice?23:02
kwahI think that the guys also having problems with a lack of manpower to translate everything back and forth23:02
itnet7kwah: They are doing an outstanding job23:03
itnet7but, they need to fine tune a bit is all23:03
kwahitnet7, thats why I have asked23:03
itnet7We look for well rounded teams for re-approval23:03
czajkowski[action] Brazil LoCo to add more detail to their application and come back to us23:03
MootBotACTION received:  Brazil LoCo to add more detail to their application and come back to us23:03
itnet7and it doesn't appear that there has been much public activity and advocacy since last year23:03
itnet7at least to us based on their current wiki23:04
paultagOK, ;et23:04
itnet7re-approval wiki that is23:04
paultagOK, Let's move on23:04
czajkowskinow ther are 4 teams left23:04
kwahPretto, nice job! good luck next time23:04
afterlastangeland no time left?23:04
Prettoczajkowski: thak you, I can see that we missed the Experience point23:04
itnet7Thanks Pretto !23:04
juliuxdon´t say now time;)23:04
paultagthank you Pretto, we look forward to reviewing you again23:04
czajkowskiPretto: thanks for understanding23:04
Prettokwah: thank you23:04
huatsjuliux, who said no time ?23:05
czajkowskiwe've 2 options, either keep going but folks may have to go or we can meet up next week at the same time ?23:05
kwahфотографий им мало23:05
Prettoczajkowski: next meeting is ok?23:05
czajkowskiPretto: sure23:05
itnet7I can continue on23:05
paultagI can continue23:05
juliuxczajkowski: the german team is still here;)23:05
_LuxYes and we like to go on ...23:05
* kamusin Chilean Team is still here too :)23:05
v4vortexindeed it is!23:05
Jiraiyaand still awake *drinking coffee*23:06
kwahRussian o/23:06
* _Lux thinks it is too late to give up ;-)23:06
renewipdear folks, please continue, we've been waiting for 2hours+23:06
juliux_Lux: +123:06
stk_We are still waiiting23:06
stk_we are from Vietnam23:06
czajkowski[topic] VietnameseTeam23:06
MootBotNew Topic:  VietnameseTeam23:06
afterlastangelI'm here23:06
MootBotLINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/VietnameseTeam/ApprovalApplication23:06
czajkowskiok folks23:06
afterlastangelwhat do you want to know about us?23:06
czajkowskiwell you're new, so tell us how you formed and what you do23:07
juliuxperhaps we can proceed a little bit faster…23:07
afterlastangelWe's started from 2007, in tuxfarmily23:07
afterlastangelIt the past, we just meet in the forum to discuss about ubuntu and help each other23:08
afterlastangelbut don't had many plan to do23:08
czajkowskijuliux: going as fast as I can, been here just as long :)23:08
czajkowskiafterlastangel: so how do you organise things?23:08
czajkowskiyou've been active in 200923:09
afterlastangelbecause we are young and have few experience23:09
afterlastangelczajkowski: yes23:09
afterlastangeljust from this time23:09
afterlastangelwe have some team to work23:09
afterlastangelkhanhpt_: lead the localization team,23:09
afterlastangelnobawk: for the IRC23:10
afterlastangeland me for the forum23:10
leoggafterlastangel: can you tell a bit more on your project with the schools?23:10
afterlastangelevent outside the Internet's held by some active members23:10
czajkowskiso 3 of you out of 118 members in launchpad and 1147523:10
CoconutCrabexcuse us23:11
czajkowskitake your time23:12
CoconutCrabplease let me answer in place of him23:12
afterlastangelI think most of them hear about Ubuntu in Viet Nam and come to us for more information about ubuntu23:12
CoconutCrabit is 5 PM here in Viet Nam and we have been waited for awhile so he might not be in the best condition23:12
CoconutCrabafterlastangel, is  that okay with you?23:12
stk_sed s/5 PM/5 AM/23:13
afterlastangelso 3 of you out of 118 members in launchpad and 1147523:13
CoconutCrabso let me begin from the start, I will make it quick23:13
czajkowskiwow 5am23:13
Vantraxwow 5 am, thats some dedication23:13
CoconutCrabwe have been around for quite a while, since 200523:13
Vantraxwell done guys for holding on23:13
czajkowskiwell done and thank you very much for being patient and staying we appreciate it23:13
CoconutCrabfirst we were are small community composed of hobby-ist23:13
CoconutCraband most of us are very young, I believe more than 95% are still in college or high school23:14
CoconutCrabso our organizing method is a little bit different23:14
CoconutCrabwhile there are some members dedicated to some tasks23:14
czajkowskiCoconutCrab: how have you delt with this? what have you done to get interest23:14
CoconutCrabczajkowski, you mean deal with the fact that we are still young ?23:15
itnet7afterlastangel: What is your roadmap, do you see the team getting more involved in Conferences, and events?23:15
czajkowskiCoconutCrab: yes and getting people to do things?23:16
renewipwe organise seminars in schools/campus since most of us are students, besides, we have online support, IRC forums, mailing list23:16
CoconutCrabczajkowski, we mostly communicate via forum and IRC23:16
CoconutCrabwhen we need something done, we asked everyone on the forum23:16
czajkowskiI dont see any mention of IRC meetings, do you have any ?23:16
CoconutCraband we have the advantage of being young, everyone is always eager to join23:16
CoconutCrabso it is really easy to get interest23:17
CoconutCrabin term of meetings, we often do it informally23:17
CoconutCrabbecause as a community, we are really close to each other23:17
CoconutCrabso communication can be done via phone, or face to face meeting23:18
CoconutCrabstill, when there is important task that need to be done23:18
CoconutCrablike the preparation for this appoval process, we hold a meeting for it23:18
czajkowskihave you had any issues?23:18
=== muzha is now known as paultag_
CoconutCrabczajkowski, yes, we have some23:19
CoconutCrabfor example, being young has its advantages23:19
CoconutCrabbut also have some bad sides too23:19
czajkowskisuch as? how have you dealt with them23:19
CoconutCrablike in the examination season, there aren't many people active23:19
CoconutCrabbecause most of us are busy with the exams :P23:19
JanCCoconutCrab: it might be good to also attract some older people in the future23:19
huatsCoconutCrab do you have in your team any Ubuntu Member or Developpers that are more involved in some aspect of the worldwide Ubuntu community  ?23:20
CoconutCrabbut after 5 years, some of us already graduated so it isn't too serious these days23:20
CoconutCrabJanC, I understand23:20
afterlastangelLet's me explain our plan for school23:21
CoconutCrabhuats, we are still trying to get more involved witht he international community23:21
CoconutCrabbut for now, we have some members that are debian developers, the upstream of Ubuntu23:21
leoggCoconutCrab: do you the language issue has been a barrier for you?23:22
afterlastangelleogg: I think so23:22
CoconutCrablike Le Quoc Tuan, he has just become a debian developer recently23:22
paultag_CoconutCrab, Oh interesting. Have they worked with the MOTU at all?23:22
CoconutCrabto be honest, quite some of us are quite good at understanding english, the majority of us don't23:23
CoconutCrabthat is why we are very active in localizing Ubuntu for Vietnamese people23:23
leoggafterlastangel, CoconutCrab, :)23:23
afterlastangelleogg: And we the the the language barrier can be break by translation and help from ubuntu-vn community23:23
leoggafterlastangel: that's right!23:23
CoconutCrabas you can see, in the last years, we were involved in some translation projects like MOST23:23
afterlastangelLet's I explain the eudcation's plans23:24
CoconutCrabwhich was funded by the governement23:24
CoconutCrabafterlastangel, please wait23:24
CoconutCrabone last answer23:24
CoconutCrabfor paultag23:24
czajkowski[vote] Please vote on the Approval of the Vietnamese Team23:24
MootBotPlease vote on:  Please vote on the Approval of the Vietnamese Team.23:24
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot23:24
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting23:24
paultag_one sec czajkowski23:24
paultag_go ahead CoconutCrab23:24
CoconutCrabpaultag, we still have many thing to learn, and we are eager to get involved with MOTU in the future23:25
CoconutCrabfor now, sadly, I can say we haven't done much with MOTU23:25
CoconutCrabone reason for that is we are still have to learn23:26
CoconutCrabin the college, high school*23:26
afterlastangelas the loco team we have many chances to learn from other community around the world23:26
afterlastangelAnd know that we're not alone23:26
leoggCoconutCrab: and the collaboration with the Debian folks will sure help :)23:27
CoconutCraband so our schedule isn't stable enough to dedicate to such important tasks like maintain packages23:27
CoconutCrableogg, sure :)23:27
CoconutCrabif you have any other questions, please ask23:28
renewipwe really want to join the Ubuntu world to learn more experience/knowledge and everything from teams over the world23:28
JanCif you have a debian developer, he certainly can help with ubuntu packages too (and does so by default, as we pull their packages)23:28
paultag_JanC, totally23:28
huatsCoconutCrab we might talk later about collaboration with the motu mentoring team23:28
JanCmaybe he can also teach soem more of you  ☺23:28
huats(since I am part of it)23:28
CoconutCrabhuats, gladly :)23:28
CoconutCraboh, one more reason for that23:29
renewipJanC: we actually have some un-official developers who program and package their own DEBs23:29
huatsCoconutCrab please contact me in a few days since we are working on redefinig the process....23:29
huatsand Pretto too :)23:29
czajkowskiok we're ready to vite23:29
CoconutCrabhuats, yes, I will ask the one who is in charge of developing in our community23:30
leoggI'm happy to give +123:30
MootBot+1 received from paultag. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 123:30
MootBotPrivate +1 vote received. 2 for, 0 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now 223:30
itnet7we +123:30
MootBot+1 received from leogg. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 323:30
MootBotAbstention received from czajkowski. 3 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 323:30
MootBot+1 received from Claudinux. 4 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 423:30
paultagClaudinux, council members only, please :)23:30
Claudinuxpaultag, sorry :)23:30
afterlastangelThank you23:31
itnet7I have to explain something thought about the vote we just did afterlastangel23:31
czajkowskiitnet7: you need to vote23:31
czajkowskior are we missing one23:31
itnet7The LoCo Council really likes what we see and feels that you are off to a great start23:31
MootBot+1 received from itnet7. 5 for, 0 against. 1 have abstained. Count is now 523:31
MootBotFinal result is 5 for, 0 against. 1 abstained. Total: 523:31
czajkowskifinal vote was 423:32
itnet7We would like for you to continue to work on Advocacy and irc-meetings that are published for others to learn more about your team and it's activities23:32
itnet7in 90 days we would like to get and update from you on your progress23:32
CoconutCrabI understand23:33
czajkowskiok so moving on23:33
czajkowski[topic]Russian Team Re approval23:33
MootBotNew Topic: Russian Team Re approval23:33
afterlastangelWe could disscuss more in the mailling list, now time for other team, good luck23:33
itnet7I will contact you more offline23:33
stk_thank you very much, you all23:34
itnet7Hey there kwah !23:34
MootBotLINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RussianTeam23:34
CoconutCrabthank you :)23:34
leogggreat job vietnam!23:34
paultagthank you CoconutCrab :)23:34
MootBotLINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RussianTeam/ReApprovalApplication23:34
paultagHowdy kwah23:34
kwahI heard there were complains about big countries...23:34
huatsno complains, questions :)23:34
CoconutCrabso I will leave it to Russian team, guess it is time for us to get some sleep23:35
CoconutCrabthank you again23:35
kwahBy the way, I raised the question to our contact who invited us and never heard back23:35
paultagthank you for staying up late CoconutCrab23:35
kwahin this respect23:35
kwahRussia is big. Russians are everywhere.23:36
aim1159just to remember for all the audience - our team not the country, but language-based23:36
kwahTherefore our team focuses on Russian speaking community wold-wide23:36
czajkowskiok so can you tell us a little about your structure and how you do things23:37
czajkowskiorganise events and your team?23:37
huatskwah, oh. I don't know why but I haven't seen your question (and I well received your email) my fault sorry23:37
Agafonovhuats: I've emailed one too23:37
Agafonov* once23:38
kwahSo, the main idea is information: consolidation of information about all aspects23:38
kwahAnd spread it by all possible means23:38
kwahFrom web-site forum IRC to participation in local events23:38
paultagkwah, what have been some of your more notable events in the last two years?23:38
AgafonovStructure may be seen here: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-ru/+members23:39
huatsAgafonov they were both in the same email thread that was unread :( I don't know why :( (I have experienced email issue lately is it the cause...) once again I am sorry23:39
Agafonovhuats: np, we are ready23:39
czajkowskiok so have you had any issues with getting things done ?23:40
kwahFor example, participation of various local teams in the last Software Freedom23:40
Agafonovpaultag: we were approved one year ago23:40
paultagAgafonov, Sorry :) , what have been your more notable events since your approval?23:41
kwahczajkowski, yes, who does not23:41
kwahbut we try to do what we can23:41
czajkowskikwah: how have you dealt with them?23:41
kwahmainly leading by example23:41
kwahcommunicating what needs to be done etc23:41
kwahe.g. IdeaPool, Tasks at our wiki23:41
czajkowskiso what do you plan to do in the next 2 years?23:42
Agafonovczajkowski: one big problem was - unabe to get 9.10 CDs due to import laws23:42
kwahWhat we have been doing23:42
paultagAgafonov, How did you deal with that issue?23:43
kwahOne of the biggest points of attention - to get more people involved23:43
Agafonovpaultag: we cannot rewrite laws23:43
Agafonovwe ordered shipit small packs23:43
kwahTherefore all possible means of transparent presentation what is going on in the team and around it23:43
paultagAgafonov, Did you end up burning CDs for large events?23:43
Agafonovpaultag: sure23:44
kwahpaultag, for disk exchange  we have special forum topics23:45
kwahwhere everyone can offer their help or request it23:45
kwahif in need23:45
paultagkwah, I'd love to hear more about how you worked around this issue, it might be useful to other LoCos with the same situation23:45
_Luxpaultag: Could you take that offline?23:46
paultag_Lux, Yes, good idea.23:46
aim1159paultag: guess no other loco's (outside Russia) have russian customs burocracy machine ;)23:46
kwahpaultag, we ll work on it again23:46
Agafonovpaultag: no, we end up with CD get back to shiping company23:46
czajkowskiok i think we're ready to vote23:46
czajkowski[vote] please vote on the re approval of the Russian LoCo23:46
MootBotPlease vote on:  please vote on the re approval of the Russian LoCo.23:46
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot23:46
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting23:46
MootBot+1 received from czajkowski. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 123:47
MootBot+1 received from itnet7. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 223:47
MootBot+1 received from paultag. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 323:47
MootBotPrivate +1 vote received. 4 for, 0 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now 423:47
itnet7Very good job!23:47
MootBot+1 received from leogg. 5 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 523:47
MootBotFinal result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 523:47
kwahThanks everyone23:47
paultagWell done, thank you kwah23:47
czajkowskiok well done and btw nice application very easy to read and navigate23:47
aim1159hurrraaaaay! :)23:47
czajkowskialways helps23:47
leoggthank you kwah Agafonov23:47
kwahczajkowski, team work23:47
skyriderThanks everyone23:47
czajkowskiis there anyone here from the Chilli Loco23:47
pedro_yeah _o/!23:48
huatspedro_, \o/23:48
czajkowski[topic]Chilean LoCo re approval23:48
MootBotNew Topic: Chilean LoCo re approval23:48
* pedro_ hugs huats23:48
MootBotLINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ChileanTeam/ReApprovalApplication23:49
czajkowskiThanks for coming guys23:49
czajkowskiI know it's been a hard few months for ye so well done23:49
huatsFirst of all I'd like to thank you for being here, and to agreed to be reapproved even with the hard times you had23:49
cristianvirtualOur team is very active we are one of the most biggest Linux communities in Chile, we are always invited to different kinds of events, but due to the natural disaster (Earthquake and Tsunami) that affected us during February our LoCo team has not been so active as before, but we're working even harder than before to revitalize it and to make our LoCo team a rocking one again.23:50
czajkowskinice wiki page, so clear and easy to read23:50
czajkowskicristianvirtual: you are doing an amazing job23:50
Prettocongratulations kwah23:50
cristianvirtualczajkowski: not just me, all our team23:51
huatscristianvirtual, that was directed to the team I think :)23:51
czajkowskiso can you tell me how you guys do things please?23:51
czajkowskihow are you organised ?23:51
cristianvirtualWe are organized in diferent teams: Web, Forums, marketing and council.23:52
cristianvirtualWe have regular meetings once a month by IRC with the community and also a few days before this meeting, our council had  a meeting.23:52
czajkowskihow do you get peope to become active and take on roles in those areas?23:52
cristianvirtualur team is divided in small teams every single of team responsible for a part of the things we're doing for example, we have one for the website dedicated to only that23:53
cristianvirtualso, every leader of the group have a mentor proccess for new member of the team23:54
czajkowskioh nice idea23:54
czajkowskiso you teach new people so they learn23:54
huatspedro_, do you run session focussed on the bug triagging  ?23:54
czajkowskiI like that idea23:54
huatsczajkowski, I like it too23:54
cristianvirtualso if you're a new person we ask you to decide in which part of the team you'd like to work23:55
pedro_huats: yeah we do that every once in a while and specially for the bug jams23:55
pedro_huats: in the past we organized bug jams once per month and we gave classes about triaging23:55
pedro_but due to the earthquake we slowed down a little bit on that23:56
czajkowskiof course that's understandable23:56
pedro_as cristianvirtual said we're working to try to bring those kind of events to live again23:56
czajkowskiI think your team is doign a great job23:56
pedro_it's being hard though23:56
huatspedro_, great23:56
leoggawesome job23:56
huatsI really like to see very very experience people like you, giving sessions... it helps a lot really23:57
pedro_I guess czajkowski was asking about problems on the teams and all that, we had the same issue that the Russian folks with the CD taxes23:57
pedro_what we did was ask to every person on the team to give a little of money to pay those23:57
pedro_and for future activies we're just asking for a small set of originals CDS23:57
pedro_and burning the rest23:57
huatspedro_, I have told cristianvirtual to talk to maria for that23:57
pedro_it's cheaper for us that way23:57
cristianvirtualhuats: done! ;)23:58
pedro_and recently maria (from canonica) gave us a great news about that too23:58
czajkowskiok so I think we're ready to vote23:58
czajkowski[vote] please vote on the Chilean LoCo Re approval23:58
MootBotPlease vote on:  please vote on the Chilean LoCo Re approval.23:58
MootBotPublic votes can be registered by saying +1/-1/+0 in the channel, private votes by messaging the channel followed by +1/-1/+0  to MootBot23:58
MootBotE.g. /msg MootBot +1 #ubuntu-meeting23:58
MootBot+1 received from itnet7. 1 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 123:58
huatspedro_,  great then !23:58
MootBot+1 received from leogg. 2 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 223:58
MootBot+1 received from czajkowski. 3 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 323:58
MootBot+1 received from paultag. 4 for, 0 against. 0 have abstained. Count is now 423:58
czajkowskiamazing team23:58
czajkowskiwell done23:58
MootBotPrivate +1 vote received. 5 for, 0 against, 0 have abstained. Count is now 523:58
pedro_huats: yeah !23:58
huatscongrats !23:58
MootBotFinal result is 5 for, 0 against. 0 abstained. Total: 523:58
paultagWell done guys23:58
czajkowskiwhoo congrats folks23:58
huatskeep doing that23:58
leoggexcelente trabajo, Chile!23:58
itnet7Very Good Job!! You all have worked so hard!!23:58
pedro_thanks a lot friends!23:58
* pedro_ hugs you all23:59
czajkowski[topic] German LoCo re approval23:59
MootBotNew Topic:  German LoCo re approval23:59
paultagHallo Deutschland! Wie geht es euch?23:59
MootBotLINK received: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GermanTeamReApprovalApplication201023:59
_Luxpaultag: Gut, danke23:59
Jiraiyakann mich nicht beklagen :)23:59
czajkowskialoha folks23:59
huatshey there my friend juliux23:59
juliuxThe German Ubuntu LoCo Team does a lot of Ubuntu related work in different areas. We started in 2004 with mailinglists, forum, IRC. Since this time all platforms for user support grow steadily. Since 2005 we have a legal entity called ubuntu Deutschland e.V. (German Ubuntu association)  for all legal effects and financial issues23:59

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