[06:10] <zeroseven0183> Hi! Am I in the right channel to ask about the Ubuntu Manual Project?
[19:35] <detrate-> Hello, I'm looking to help out with ubuntu studio documentation and I'm new to the ubuntu documentation scene, so I have some questions about the system as I talk with the team about possibilities.
[19:36] <detrate-> 1) is it possible to edit template files, with some sort of markup language.  Comparing wiki.ubuntu.com and wiki.kubuntu.org I see that wiki.ubuntu.com has a menu but kubuntu does not
[19:37] <detrate-> 2) I see that a subdomain wiki.<ubuntu-flavor> can be used... I was wonder if the 'help' reference can follow suit
[19:37] <detrate-> i.e. so we can have wiki.ubuntustudio.org and help.ubuntustudio.org
[20:40] <mdke> detrate-: broadly, a project like Ubuntu Studio is free to manage its websites as it wishes, so it's no problem to set up subdomains like that. However it would be quite cool I think to develop some Ubuntu Studio documentation on help.ubuntu.com/community so that it is in the same place as Ubuntu documentation and Ubuntu users can discover it as well as Ubuntu Studio users
[20:41] <mdke> detrate-: wiki.ubuntu.com isn't for documentation. The site we focus on is help.ubuntu.com
[20:41] <mdke> detrate-: I'm not sure I understand the question about template files
[20:49] <detrate-> the idea behind using the subdomains, wiki.ubuntustudio.org and help.ubuntustudio.org is that some of the information I imagine will get pretty specific to packages that come standard with ubuntu studio and don't want to confuse the user more than they need to be.  For a more broad package, it would make sense for the user to go to the main ubuntu wiki
[20:50] <detrate-> it's not just about documentation but organizing the vision and plan.  There are no plans to change the way 'help' and 'wiki' are used in respect to the project
[20:51] <detrate-> as for the question about template files, on wiki.ubuntu.com there is a menu in the top right, "ubuntu, community, support, partners, etc." -- but not on wiki.kubuntu.org -- I was wondering if this is something we can leverage in the CMS or if this is only something available to wiki.ubuntu.com
[20:51] <detrate-> because it would be nice to add custom menu options to help filter information
[20:54] <mdke> detrate-: you could have a landing page on wiki.u.c and help.u.c/community and subpages of that, to delineate specific documentation for Ubuntu Studio
[20:55] <mdke> detrate-: the links in the top right are part of the wiki theme, you could certainly develop a specific theme for Ubuntu Studio if you create a separate website
[20:56] <detrate-> is there any documentation I can reference to get an idea of the boundaries of the system?
[20:57] <mdke> of what system?
[20:57] <detrate-> the ubuntu wiki CMS
[20:57] <detrate-> I see this: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WikiGuide
[20:57] <detrate-> but maybe something more admin oriented? I imagine a regular user cannot modify the template
[20:57] <mdke> if you want to learn more about the software, you can visit the website for the software, which is http://moinmo.in/
[20:57] <detrate-> okay, thank you
[20:58] <mdke> you can set up a "desktop" version of the software to play around with themeing and such, rather than install a full server version locally
[20:58] <detrate-> I already live in a LAMP environment so that's no big deal :)
[20:59] <mdke> as you prefer
[20:59] <mdke> details are here: http://moinmo.in/DesktopEdition
[21:00] <detrate-> thanks again
[21:00] <mdke> np
[21:03] <detrate-> so do we have access to create run plugins?
[21:03] <detrate-> I assume they'll have to go through QA or some sort of check
[21:03] <mdke> not really. But if you are thinking of creating a separate website, wouldn't you be administrating the software yourself?
[21:04] <detrate-> I thought it'd be running off the same core system just with a different URL as wiki.kubuntu.org does
[21:04] <mdke> ok, but then wouldn't you run into the same problem as you mentioned before about confusing the user?
[21:05] <detrate-> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio https://wiki.kubuntu.org/UbuntuStudio
[21:05] <detrate-> well, not with the theme I don't think
[21:05] <mdke> ok, so you'd use the same wiki, but simply a different theme?
[21:05] <detrate-> I mean, the obvious argument here is that it works for kubuntu
[21:05] <detrate-> different theme, different URL, additional menu options
[21:05] <detrate-> is the overall goal
[21:06] <detrate-> aiming for a more integrated look and feel
[21:06] <mdke> well, depending on what you mean by "menu options", that can be managed in the theme
[21:07] <mdke> it's historically been very difficult for us to add plugins
[21:07] <detrate-> it looks like I can get what I need without a plugin http://moinmo.in/HelpOnThemes
[21:08] <detrate-> but it's nice to know what's available for future needs
[21:08] <mdke> well, in as far as plugins might be generally useful for documentation, we may well have a common interest to push for them to be added
[21:08] <mdke> but generally it's quite tricky
[21:09] <mdke> incidentally at present there is no help.kubuntu.org afaics, the separate theming is only implemented for wiki.kubuntu.org
[21:10] <detrate-> I'm confused about the wiki configuration in the documentation I just linked you to.  I can't tell if these changes are files, entries in the CSS file or modifications to the core files.
[21:11] <mdke> I can point you to the code for help.ubuntu.com/community if it helps
[21:11] <detrate-> it might
[21:12] <mdke> it's here - https://code.launchpad.net/~mdke/ubuntu-docs/helpwiki-newtheme
[21:12] <detrate-> oh wow, someone went all out here: http://moinmo.in/ThemeMarket/Explorer?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=explorer-theme-desktop.png
[21:12] <mdke> i don't really understand python but I managed to knock that theme together by trial and error
[21:12] <detrate-> ^_^
[21:12] <mdke> and just looking at other themes
[21:13] <mdke> gosh, that explorer theme is something
[21:13] <detrate-> okay, well this pretty much answered my question http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mdke/ubuntu-docs/helpwiki-newtheme/annotate/head%3A/MoinMoin/theme/ubuntunew.py
[21:14] <detrate-> python is still a bit crazy for me too look at too :-P
[21:14] <mdke> :)
[21:15] <detrate-> but not as confusing as Ruby! :)
[21:16] <mdke> I don't know any programming languages
[21:20] <detrate-> PHP is probably the one I use most often... for better or for worse
[21:20] <mdke> I'm sure you'll pick up MoinMoin theming without difficulty
[21:21] <detrate-> yeah, it'll be mostly CSS changes anyway
[21:21] <detrate-> and some basic HTML additions
[21:21]  * mdke nods
[21:22] <mdke> we welcome suggestions for improving the Ubuntu theme too :)
[21:23] <detrate-> I maybe able to help
[21:23] <detrate-> did you know the homepage has some random markup? off to the left?
[21:24] <detrate-> #ubuntulogo has bad css
[21:24] <detrate-> someone used 'text-indent:-300px;'
[21:24] <detrate-> so on a widescreen, you see 'ubuntu' floating off to the left
[21:24] <detrate-> there is a better way to hide this text cross-browser
[21:25] <detrate-> width:0; padding-left:202px; overflow:hidden;
[21:26] <mdke> nope, my css is very basic too, wasn't aware of that :)
[21:27] <detrate-> oh, that's on www.ubuntu.com http://imgur.com/kA8tn.png
[21:27] <detrate-> you can see the light gray text in the top left
[21:27] <mdke> I believe ubuntu.com is getting an overhaul for the new release
[21:27] <mdke> so no doubt it will be rather different in a week or two
[21:27] <detrate-> ahh, okay, well that's good
[21:27] <mdke> we will need to work on updating the wiki themes too
[21:27] <detrate-> as long as it's not too orange
[21:28] <mdke> it might be purple ;)
[21:28] <detrate-> okay, well let me know when that all starts coming together and I'll see how much time I have to help
[21:29] <mdke> detrate-: will definitely do so, thanks. If you hang around on here or the mailing list, you'll pick up on any discussions
[21:29] <detrate-> sure, I'll idle here
[21:32] <mdke> great, it isn't noisy