[16:00] <dpm> Hi everyone!
[16:01] <dpm> Welcome to this new Ubuntu Translations meeting
[16:01] <dpm> let's wait a couple of minutes for people to turn up...
[16:03] <kelemengabor> o/
[16:03] <dpm> hey :)
[16:04] <dpm> let's see who's there :)
[16:04] <henninge> me
[16:04] <etali> Hi, that worked to wake me up :)
[16:04] <dpm> cool :)
[16:04] <Destine> dpm, Hi!
[16:04] <dpm> whoah, people is coming in masses now... :)
[16:05] <dpm> I'll have to take note that pinging really works...
[16:05] <Destine> dpm, yes... it works!
[16:05]  * Blue-Omega_ highlights dpm back
[16:05] <dpm> :-)
[16:05] <mcas> o/
[16:06] <TomaszD> g'day
[16:06] <Blue-Omega_> you too
[16:07] <dpm> hey everyone, thanks for coming. Let's get started, shall we?
[16:07] <Destine> dpm ok.
[16:07] <dpm> So here's the agenda for today:
[16:07] <dpm> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/Meetings/2010-04-22
[16:07] <dpm> As I said, I'd like to concentrate on the UDS sessions on translations today. And here's a preliminary list:
[16:08] <dpm> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Translations/UDS
[16:08] <dpm> I'd just like to hear what you think, and let everyone propose sessions if they'd like to.
[16:08] <dpm> You'll see in the page that there is also a "Final list section".
[16:08] <dpm>  That's just in case we end up with a big list and there is no time to run all sessions
[16:09] <dpm> (or to avoid us really quickly burning out ;)
[16:09] <kelemengabor> how many sessions can we have in total?
[16:09] <dpm> kelemengabor, there is no set limit, we've got enough space, I think
[16:10] <dpm> it's just a matter of having a good set and not exceedingly many
[16:10] <dpm> but there's room for proposing more
[16:11] <kelemengabor> cool, I have a few problems to discuss :)
[16:11] <dpm> I cannot tell you exactly "we've got e.g. 15 slots"
[16:11] <dpm> but I can tell you: "we probably have enough"
[16:11] <dpm> anyway,
[16:11] <dpm> so if the list gets really big, some might go to the "Deferred" section for another UDS or another method of discussion (e.g. on the mailing list, on a meeting, etc.)
[16:12] <dpm> Oh, and btw, I'll obviously be attending, ArneGoetje from the Desktop team will be as well, and henninge from the Launchpad Translations team.
[16:12] <dpm> He'll be the only representative of the Rosetta team this time.
[16:12] <dpm> so don't be too hard on him ;)
[16:12]  * henninge shivers
[16:13]  * dpm hugs henninge :)
[16:13] <dpm> I know some of you are attending as well, but I might not know all. Who else is coming?
[16:13]  * henninge feels better ;)
[16:13] <etali> Are all sessions streamed, or just the "main" ones?  (Not going, but hoping to follow along remotely)
[16:13]  * kelemengabor will be there
[16:13] <dpm> cool :)
[16:14] <dpm> etali, all sessions' voice is streamed, and we've got IRC in all rooms, so it's very easy to participate remotely. In fact...
[16:14] <Destine> dpm, got declined...
[16:14] <dpm> For those not attending but still interested in participating, you can always remotely be there on IRC. Sound for all the sessions is streamed for everyone to listen in, and on every UDS rooom there are projectors showing the IRC conversations for everyone in the room to see.
[16:15] <dpm> Destine, sorry to hear that, but there's always a next UDS, so don't worry
[16:15] <dpm> Jorge Castro is going to run a talk on how to participate remotely in UDS next Friday:
[16:15] <dpm> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek/
[16:15] <henninge> dpm: there is this but I am not sure it will fill a session. https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/launchpad-translator-communication
[16:15] <Destine> dpm, sure, I am still working...
[16:15] <etali> dpm, every room?  That's cool.  Thanks.
[16:16] <henninge> dpm: without the "fuzzy" subject, though.
[16:16] <dpm> henninge, yeah, let's start with the sessions. I can start with a quick review of the existing topics, or either ellaborate more on any where you might have questions, or let everyone who's got any proposal to start. I'm flexible, what do you guys prefer?
[16:17] <Destine> +1 for doing the existing ones first.
[16:17] <henninge> yes, of course.
[16:18] <dpm> ok, let's try to do this quickly, then
[16:18] <dpm> = Translations community roundtable =
[16:19] <dpm> the name says it all. roundtable session to discuss anything that doesn't need a full session
[16:19] <dpm> feel free to add any bullet points with topics on the wiki page
[16:19] <dpm> = Launchpad Translations roundtable =
[16:20] <dpm> Another unstructured session. I thought henninge could gave us an update of the latest developments in LP
[16:20] <henninge> dpm: sure, I can do that.
[16:20] <dpm> and we can give him feedback on the usage of LP translations
[16:20] <dpm> cool :)
[16:20] <henninge> also, the topic from the blueprint could simply go in here
[16:20] <dpm> ah, good point
[16:21] <dpm> = Translations Community Advocacy =
[16:21] <dpm> a session to discuss how to promote the Ubuntu translations project
[16:22] <dpm> let it grow and get more contributors for all languages
[16:22] <dpm> = Translations Community Learning Content =
[16:22] <dpm> a session to discuss the creation of documentation and other media (e.g. screencasts, etc.) on how to get started translating Ubuntu
[16:23] <dpm> and basically ease the entry barrier
[16:23] <dpm> screencasts could for example be made and used for all teams
[16:23] <dpm> e.g. replacing the sound track
[16:23] <dpm> = Translations Community Events =
[16:23] <dpm> this is related to the other two
[16:23] <Destine> Translations Community Learning Content. This one sounds interesting.
[16:24] <dpm> :)
[16:24] <dpm> discuss a series of translation events to help translating Ubuntu throughout the cycle
[16:24] <dpm> in addition to the Ubuntu Global Jam, etc
[16:24] <dpm> = Extend the translations reporting site =
[16:25] <dpm> that's about better reporting the translations stats for Ubuntu as a distro
[16:25] <dpm> I started last cycle on that, and I'd like to improve this, perhaps with the use of a LP Translations Reporting API
[16:26] <dpm> btw, it's taken longer this time, but I've calculated the stats for lucid, I'll announce them soon on the ML
[16:26] <dpm> = Translation teams outreach =
[16:27] <dpm> I'd like to contact all translation teams and know more about them and see if they need help in any areas. That's also about communication. Some teams might not know what's going on and that there is a global mailing list and other communication resources
[16:27] <dpm> this might be in the form of a survey to make it easier, but I still don't know
[16:27] <dpm> = Launchpad Translations Reporting API =
[16:28] <dpm> we've got a spec for accessing translation data through launchpadlib
[16:28] <dpm> already, and adiroiban has even started working on it
[16:29] <dpm> https://dev.launchpad.net/Translations/Specs/ReportingAPI
[16:29] <dpm> I'd like to discuss how this can be implemented, current status, etc.
[16:29] <dpm> and get other people involved if they want to become the next LP superheroes :)
[16:30] <dpm> = Developer education on localization =
[16:30] <freeflying> dpm: sorry, late
[16:30] <dpm> I'm still not sure if I'll schedule a session for this one
[16:30] <dpm> freeflying, no worries :)
[16:31] <dpm> all the i18n documentation is spread around, and if you add that with the Ubuntu infrastructure, langpacks, etc. it's difficult to understand everything
[16:31] <dpm> so I'd like to have a development resource to collect all that
[16:31] <dpm> This is about expanding https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopment/Internationalisation
[16:31] <dpm> = Universe is translatable in Launchpad =
[16:31] <dpm> ah, an interesting one... :)
[16:32] <freeflying> dpm: thats great, we need some attention on i18n from development perspective
[16:32] <dpm> freeflying, yeah, that's been lacking for some time, and I hopefully can dedicate some time to it next cycle
[16:32] <dpm> anyway,
[16:33] <dpm> I'd like to discuss if this would be technically possible. I'm told that from the LP translations side, this wouldn't be much of an issue, but we'd have to see how we'd implement this in language packs, etc
[16:33] <dpm> so I'd simply like to see the options
[16:34] <freeflying> dpm: for i18n, Arne seems will have seesions
[16:34] <dpm> So that was it. Questions on any of these, or would you like to start with proposing ideas
[16:34] <dpm> )
[16:34] <dpm> ?
[16:34] <dpm> freeflying, ArneGoetje, feel free to speak up or to add the sessions to the wiki page
[16:35] <kelemengabor> to me, all of these make sense, so they are worth a bit of time to discuss
[16:35] <dpm> cool, I'm glad to hear that :)
[16:36] <henninge> dpm: same feeling from me
[16:36] <dpm> cool
[16:37] <kelemengabor> especially the developer education... I met in this cycle with the "stop nagging me" attitude from some developers in bugreports, if we could do anything to change that... :)
[16:38] <ivarela> hi to all
[16:38] <dpm> yeah, that's a good point
[16:38] <dpm> bones ivarela, it seems you guys are getting famous :) -> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/node/2022
[16:38] <ivarela> yes, I saw it yesterday (marcos told me)
[16:38] <dpm> awesome
[16:39] <ivarela> thank you very much ;)
[16:39] <kelemengabor> also, I'd like to propose a session about better, say "proactive" bug detection and shortening the average lifespan of bugs
[16:40] <kelemengabor> it's quite annoying to that we do not even try to reduce the number of translation problems to 0
[16:41] <kelemengabor> that is, we often detect bugs only when it's too late
[16:41] <dpm> kelemengabor, that's a good idea, especially because we tend to get a lot shortly before release, and often there is no much time to squash them all
[16:41] <dpm> kelemengabor, do you think you could add it to the wiki page?
[16:42] <dpm> with a short description, or bullet points, etc?
[16:42] <kelemengabor> and there are several cases when nobody listens to the reports, thus they get not fixed for several releases...
[16:43] <kelemengabor> sure
[16:44] <dpm> cool, any other things?
[16:44] <dpm> anyway, so I understand that everyone is happy with the current set and wouldn't like to add more? If so, feel free to speak up here, on the mailing list or just add them to the wiki
[16:45] <kelemengabor> also, there it would be great if we could agree on a langpack update schedule: predicatable translation updates could help scheduling work
[16:46] <kelemengabor> and not only langpacks, but DDTP translations, (k)ubuntu-docs too
[16:47] <dpm> kelemengabor, yeah. I'll add that one. I'd like to review the way we do it now. We can discuss all of those and perhaps sync'ed updates. Even on-demand updates
[16:47] <kelemengabor> this means also extending a bit the definition of "supported release": not only bug fixes, but translation updates too
[16:47] <dpm> We discussed that on the UDS in Barcelona, but I must admit that not much have changed
[16:47] <dpm> so It hink it's a good time to review it
[16:48] <kelemengabor> oh sure, on-demand updates is something I'd also like to see: who knows better than me that I just fixed a "paperbag" bug? :D
[16:49] <dpm> kelemengabor, I feel like giving you work today :P, do you think you could add also the langpack and translation updates on the wiki page?
[16:49] <dpm> the sessions, I mean :)
[16:49] <kelemengabor> I'll try :)
[16:49] <dpm> thanks a lot :)
[16:50] <kelemengabor> I'm not sure if it's worth a session, but I'd like to talk about the possibility of a centralized, all langugage speaking help.ubuntu.com too
[16:52] <dpm> kelemengabor, yeah, that's a good point too. But for that to move forward, we need someone from the docs team to be there too (even remotely). We discussed that on the last UDS, but again (and that's probably my fault for not pushing it more), we didn't see any change there
[16:52] <kelemengabor> it may make sense to let teams to create local websites as they wish, to fit their needs etc, but saying them to duplicate the infrastructure of help.ubuntu.com makes no sense to me: you can simply not build an arbitrary site around that content, so why not have it centralized?
[16:52] <dpm> I'll try to e-mail the docs list today or tomorrow to see whether someone from the docs team can make it. I still think it's worth adding
[16:53] <kelemengabor> okay, I'll add that too :)
[16:54] <dpm> cool, thanks for the feedback as well, that seems to reinstate the comments other translators have had on this
[16:55] <dpm> so, anything else anyone? As I say, this can continue on the mailing list in the next few days
[16:55] <dpm> also, if anyone has got questions on UDS, feel free to ask!
[16:55] <kelemengabor> I guess this was all from me :)
[16:56] <dpm> awesome, thanks a lot kelemengabor
[16:57] <ivarela> is my first time here. And I arrived late (sorry for the delay), so I do not know what issues were discussed. There will be a summary list?
[16:58] <dpm> ivarela, sure, the meeting is logged and I'll post a summary on the mailing list (probably not until tomorrow, though)
[16:58] <kelemengabor> dpm: oh, and one more thing...
[16:58] <dpm> sure, go ahead
[16:59] <kelemengabor> earlier, you asked translators several time on the list to test proposed langpack updates if they are okay
[16:59] <kelemengabor> I don't think that this makes much sense...
[17:00] <kelemengabor> it is hard to detect the differences introduced in the new langpack
[17:00] <kelemengabor> except if you did them yourself and made a note
[17:01] <kelemengabor> can we talk about abolishing this nonsense? :)
[17:01] <kelemengabor> this does not worth a full session though
[17:01] <dpm> yeah, I know, it's just a matter of running the langpack and see if there are any crashes (we've had quite a few in Arabic and Hebrew and plurals). I'm open to talk about anything, and I think this particular item would fit well in the langpacks schedule session you were proposing
[17:02] <dpm> I'd be happy to abolish that as well, but I haven't got any solution at the moment :)
[17:03] <dpm> anyway, we're running late and I'd like to finish the meeting. We can continue discussing this on #ubuntu-translators, though
[17:03] <dpm> So I'd say that was it. Thank you all very much for participating, and now let's go and finish all those remaining translations before the deadline today!
[17:05] <dpm> bye everyone!
[22:56]  * greg-g waves