[01:32] Blegh. Sitting-in-shop day. Someone entertain me with something projecty plzkthx. [02:52] I would appreciate a time machine [02:52] no need to go back in time [02:52] just add an extra few hours per day, please [02:53] It'd be fine if I could ssh in to the shop system, but the gateway is rejecting port 22 traffic and the sysadmin still hasn't fixed this after like 3 days. [02:58] sounds like your sysadmin sorta sucks [03:13] valorie: you should read “Sam, of de Pluterdag” by Belgian SF-writer Paul Van Herck (apparently translated as “Where were you last Pluterday?” in English) [03:14] sounds cool! [03:17] I think it's only available as 2nd hand these days unfortunately :-( [03:20] it's about extra days for those who can afford it... [09:21] good morning === james_w`` is now known as james_w [16:20] We have a meeting today :-) at 2200 UTC [16:20] * IdleOne will bring the cookies [16:20] ouch [16:21] just sent a reminder out to the mailing list :-) Take a look at the agenda and feel free to add stuffs [16:21] akgraner: may I msg you ? [16:21] IdleOne, sure but I only have like 5 mins [20:39] czajkowski: want to do some spreadsheet stuff prior to the meeting? [20:50] sure [20:50] how long till meeting? [20:50] 2 hours. [20:52] aye [20:52] :( [21:07] okies, just updating the csv file [21:17] right csv file updated, shall we go through it here so everyone can join in? [21:17] sure [21:18] ok, firstly how the csv file was created was by running a little python script http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/lplist.py [21:18] with the command "python lplist.py>members.csv" [21:19] which after a while generates a members.csv file [21:19] and in Blue Peter tradition, here is one I made earlier http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/members.csv [21:19] download that one now [21:20] AlanBell: I assume the script looks specifically at UW members or does it look at all LP? [21:20] I did not look at it :/ [21:20] hard coded to start from the Ubuntu-Members team, and it looks at all nested teams [21:20] it isn't UW specific at all [21:21] ok, was just curious [21:21] sorry to interrupt [21:21] it is -members, we figure out the women in the next part [21:21] no, interruptions are welcome, keep them coming! [21:22] ok, so that csv file has the launchpad name, real name, date launchpad profile created, date made an Ubuntu Member, Karma [21:22] gotcha [21:23] so next thing to do is get that into a spreadsheet and process it a bit [21:23] http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/members.ods [21:24] so that sheet has 5 tabs [21:24] the raw data gets put on the last tab and it gets incrementally processed until it is useful on the first tab [21:24] wow [21:24] impressive [21:25] it could very probably have been done better, I suck at doing spreadsheets [21:26] so what I do is open the members.csv file in calc in a separate spreadsheet [21:26] making sure the date columns get imported as dates [21:26] click the column headings in the import dialog and choose date (YMD) [21:27] should look like this http://people.ubuntu.com/~alanbell/Screenshot-Text%20Import%20-%20%5Bmembers.csv%5D.png [21:28] then copy and paste that onto tab 5 of the spreadsheet [21:28] the totally raw tab [21:28] looks like we now have 572 members [21:30] lordie [21:30] that is a lot [21:31] oh, and if it doesn't want to paste, it may be that you opened the members.ods read only like I just did [21:31] it is a fair few [21:31] you can sort it by date they were made a member to see the new ones [21:32] and check for new women members [21:32] alemi-reza [21:32] anyone happen to know? [21:33] hmm [21:33] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RexAlemi is a bloke [21:34] so from the launchpad name you can look for their launchpad profile then on to the wiki page [21:34] ok, so doesn't look like any new women from the last count [21:35] on tab 4 there is the list of female members, all 27 of them [21:35] 27 of us eh :) [21:35] all 4.72% of you [21:36] doesnt sound as nice in a percentage [21:36] i guess each meeting there are more men getting membership and not as many women [21:36] so that number wil drop at times [21:36] we had a surge there a few months ago [21:36] * etali delurks to ask if 4.72 is up or down from last time the percentage was worked out [21:37] yes, about 10 people get approved each month one way or another [21:37] i thought we got to 5 at one point [21:37] half a person should be a woman just to maintain the 5% ish level [21:37] no, don't think it has ever got to 5 [21:38] ah ok [21:38] I think one woman every two cycles would be more likely than trading in partial people - that sounds a little grim :) [21:38] highest would have been on 02/03/10 which was 27/562 [21:39] etali: that is a fair point! [21:39] one every two months then [21:40] but it should be more, maybe a whole person a month. [21:40] aye and last cycle we got a good few [21:40] thing is it has to start at a loco level [21:40] encourage loco members to join and become active [21:40] it does, it has to start everywhere. [21:41] Is there an easy way to see how active people are on Launchpad (easier than manually inspecting each person)? Just to get an idea how active the 219 UW people in Launchpad are. [21:41] the membership point is the point where we can measure success, not the point at which things need to change [21:41] etali: karma [21:41] anyhow, that was tab 4, the list of women [21:42] tab 3 is the first round of processing [21:42] karma doesnt really explain how folks are active though [21:43] karma is a potentially misleading metric, but it does show something sometimes [21:43] czajkowski, that's true, but most active Ubuntu users have at least a tiny bit of Karma from sending crash reports. If someone has karma that is above zero you at least know they've been active-ish recently. [21:44] some people are active in ways that don't attract launchpad karma [21:44] I know people who do a lot and don't even have a LP account ;) [21:45] JanC, better nag them then :) Isn't a LP account mandatory for membership? [21:45] it isn't used much in this analysis, I just grabbed it because it was a number that looked like it might have some value [21:45] not everybody cares about "membership"... [21:45] etali: yes, some people have a very very short time from launchpad profile to membership, these are often people who create it just to sign the CoC [21:45] JanC: yeah, but this is an analysis of members [21:46] ok, so tab 3 [21:46] most columns are just copies of the totally raw tab [21:46] but look at the formula in column F [21:46] =IF( ISNA(VLOOKUP(A558,'Female Members'.A$1:A$27,1,0)),"Male","Female") [21:47] so that is looking up the launchpad name in the table of 27 female members. [21:47] if there is an addition to the list of female members the formula needs to be updated [21:47] the table on tab 3 needs to be extended to accomodate the 572 members we have now [21:48] so select the last row (row 564) and drag the black magic thing at the bottom right corner of the selection [21:48] and drag it down to row 572 [21:49] everyone keeping up? [21:50] yes teacher :) [21:50] ok, so we have a list of peeps along with their gender, which is great [21:51] lets see what is on the detail tab [21:52] err, I am confused. one sec . . . [21:54] right column E on the Detail tab is karma, not days from profile to membership [21:54] that appears to be a bug :-) [21:54] but anyhow, it isn't that important [21:55] so on the detail tab we have names and such copied over from the other tabs [21:55] column F is of interest [21:55] is changes the date they were made a member into a round number of months [21:56] =YEAR(D8)*12+MONTH(D8) [21:56] that gets put into either column H or I depending on gender [21:56] for reasons that I hope will become apparent soon [21:57] anyhow, nip down to row 565 and as before extend the table down [21:57] down to row 573 (this one has column headers in row 1) [21:58] finally we are on to the analysis tab [21:58] where the really scary stuff happens [21:58] so columns b,c,d first [21:59] B is a list of months converted to numbers that corresponds to the month numbers on the Detail tab [22:00] the next two columns are a frequency table, which gets OpenOffice.org to count the number of occurrences of that month in columns H and I of the Detail tab [22:00] frequency tables are a pain in the arse to extend [22:01] columns F,G,H process B,C,D a bit [22:01] F turns the month number back into a real date [22:01] G and H are cumulative totals of the number of members over time [22:02] K and L are used to plot the percentage of female members over time [22:03] so I am extending column B down a month [22:03] and F,G,H,K,L [22:04] the frequency thing in C,D needs recreating I think [22:08] FREQUENCY(Detail.H2:H1000,B3:B63) [22:08] ok, so delete from C3 down to D61 (or wherever it ends) [22:09] then put the cursor in C3 and add a new formula [22:09] the formula is FREQUENCY(Detail.H2:H1000,B3:B63) [22:10] that looks at column H of the detail tab, and compares it to the numbers in column B of this analysis tab [22:10] and it puts counts against each bucket of the frequency it finds [22:10] or in other words it counts the number of men who were made members in the month [22:11] next put the cursor in D3 [22:11] and put in the formula FREQUENCY(Detail.I2:I1000,B3:B63) [22:12] which does the same thing, but for column I of the details tab [22:12] which means it is doing a month by month count of the women [22:13] ok, all being well in G62 you should have 546 (number of men) [22:13] and in H62 you should have 26 . . . [22:13] err [22:13] did we lose a woman? [22:14] hmm [22:14] someone may not have renewed their membership [22:14] hmm, ok. [22:15] well 546+26 is indeed 572 which is the total number of members [22:15] and the percentage right now in L62 is 4.55% [22:16] there are a couple of graphs on that page, which you can edit to extend the data that they point at a bit for the extra month [22:18] but the other thing to update is the google spreadsheet http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Ankl5FhsdSiZdGVNalVUX0E5OVBTSmtQay1IMnJNd0E&hl=en [22:18] tab Targets and progress [22:19] and I can fill in 4.55 in the H2 cell [22:19] under Lucid Lynx because this is launch month yay [22:20] and because it is cool, it automagically updates http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/UbuntuMembers [22:20] or the top graph at least [22:21] so there it is, that is how it all works [22:22] it could probably be done better [22:22] in fact it could certainly be done better [22:22] any questions? [22:23] right, I need to go put the chickens to bed, back in a bit o/ [22:25] AlanBell: thanks [22:26] right bed for me ive to be up at 5am [22:26] UW meeting times are not very convient for eu folks [22:26] nn [22:45] night all o/ [22:46] AlanBell, night and thanks to you and czajkowski for updating the stats [22:55] 5 minute warning [23:01] Meeting time :-) [23:01] * pleia2 waves [23:01] #startmeeting [23:01] Meeting started at 22:01. The chair is akgraner. [23:01] Commands Available: [TOPIC], [PROGRESS REPORT], [IDEA], [ACTION], [AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE] [23:01] [TOPIC] - Attendance - Ok folks, who's here for the Ubuntu Women Project Meeting today? [23:01] New Topic: - Attendance - Ok folks, who's here for the Ubuntu Women Project Meeting today? [23:01] me [23:01] me [23:02] here o/ [23:02] anyone else? [23:02] [TOPIC] - Agenda - The agenda for today's meeting can be found at - http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/Meetings/April2010/Agenda [23:02] New Topic: - Agenda - The agenda for today's meeting can be found at - http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/Meetings/April2010/Agenda [23:02] [PROGRESS REPORT] Open Items - UDS action items/blueprint (akgraner) [23:02] Progress Report: Open Items - UDS action items/blueprint (akgraner) [23:03] me [23:03] I haven't added anything to the Blueprint but I created it and will get something to the list by Tuesday of next week so the team the items in Blueprint format [23:04] [ACTION] - akgraner to send updated blueprints to list on or before April 27th. [23:04] ACTION received: - akgraner to send updated blueprints to list on or before April 27th. [23:04] [PROGRESS REPORT] Open Items - Wiki Translations (akgraner) [23:04] Progress Report: Open Items - Wiki Translations (akgraner) [23:05] I asked IdleOne to give and update on the translations [23:05] IdleOne, take it away [23:05] ok [23:05] So first off thanks to everybody who has been doing translation and to akgraner, pleia2 and everyone else who are helping on the organising front [23:06] I did a quick and dirty stats gathering here it is [23:06] Number of languages that are started according to http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/PagesNeedingTranslated is 4, considering the short amount of time (1month or so) and the sort of hap hazard way we started I think that is awesome :) [23:06] Number of translators that have signed up according to http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/Translators is 11 but on the French team we have had 3-5 contributors who have not signed http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/Translators not sure about other languages and how many contributors they have had. [23:07] we could use someone to try and gather up some more concrete info [23:07] any objection to organizing the translator page in order of languages listed on the translation table? [23:08] fine with me [23:08] I just thought it would be nice for them to complement each other [23:08] any volunteers? [23:08] would be good yes [23:09] * IdleOne hides [23:09] just reordering the page? that'll take about 60 seconds :) I can do it [23:09] [ACTION] - Organize Translator page to complement Translation Table - pleia2 [23:09] ACTION received: - Organize Translator page to complement Translation Table - pleia2 [23:09] Thanks pleia2 [23:09] thank you pleia2 [23:10] and last but not least would be useful to send an email to the LoCo teams ML and try to get more people working on more languages. [23:10] I can do that unless someone else wants to volunteer [23:10] IdleOne: are you satisfied with the current translations process enough to accept an influx of volunteers from the wider community? [23:10] I think it's great that we got 4 languages started but for example the Es translation only has the main page done and half way at that [23:11] I'd hate to end up with a pile of pages which are poorly translated because we don't have any kind of proper review process [23:11] pleia2: I think that each language could use a "leader" to keep track of everything [23:11] IdleOne: maybe that's something we need to document on /Translators before sending an email to the loco-contacts list? [23:11] I volunteered for french and have been trying to make sure everything is kosher [23:12] pleia2: that sounds like a plan [23:12] I think figuring out a process to assign the right person per language is needed [23:12] [ACTION] Identify review process and update Translators page [23:12] ACTION received: Identify review process and update Translators page [23:13] I'll ask dpm if he has any suggestions [23:13] thanks akgraner [23:13] thank you [23:13] [ACTION] ask dpm for suggestions on review process [23:13] ACTION received: ask dpm for suggestions on review process [23:13] I have to go for a little, dinner in the oven. Be back in a bit [23:14] k thanks for the update [23:14] sure thing [23:14] * valorie is late to the meeting [23:14] valorie, welcome [23:14] welcome valorie [23:14] great work on translations in just a few short weeks - this is great!! [23:14] thanks everyone working on those [23:15] [PROGRESS REPORT] Open Items - World Play Day announcement (akgraner) [23:15] it's been great to see the enthusiasm in IRC [23:15] Progress Report: Open Items - World Play Day announcement (akgraner) [23:15] so we are starting to have entries [23:16] are they good? [23:16] about 4 people but those 4 have sent in multiple entries [23:16] yes there are some great pictures but but we need to stir up some more entries [23:17] I'll blog about it a bit later, we've sorta saturated the community at this point [23:17] fridge, planet, omgubuntu [23:17] * valorie needs to blog also [23:17] I'll email the LoCo-contacts list as well [23:17] later == in a couple weeks [23:17] [ACTION] - pleia2, valorie to blog about world play day [23:17] ACTION received: - pleia2, valorie to blog about world play day [23:18] [ACTION] akgraner to email loco-contacts list about world play day [23:18] ACTION received: akgraner to email loco-contacts list about world play day [23:18] make sure you tell your friends, family, etc who use Ubuntu about it as well [23:19] you know friends of friends of friends :-) [23:19] but it's good to see entries coming in though :-) [23:19] my problem is that very few of my friends use ubuntu [23:19] or even linux [23:19] I think we are all in that boat as well [23:20] ok so moving on - unless anyone has anything else about the competition [23:20] [PROGRESS REPORT] Open Items - Website/Blog (akgraner) [23:20] Progress Report: Open Items - Website/Blog (akgraner) [23:21] I asked pleia2 to update the team on this item [23:21] pleia2, take it away [23:22] right, so on list there was pretty much consensus that we'd ask canonical for hosting [23:22] since that discussion, there was a post to the news-team list indicating that canonical may be moving away from drupal and to wordpress - wordpress *would* be the preferred thing for this since it's blogging software and we'd have a blog [23:22] oh - I am talking about the blog first (website is separate) [23:23] so our options: [23:23] 1) Wait for Canonical to officially support wordpress and hop on that when it happens (I can submit and RT ticket now to ask about timing etc) [23:23] 2) Move ahead a wordpress.com blog for now, and migrate to canonical's servers when they offer wordpress [23:24] pleia2, great! I was going to ask if you would submit the ticker [23:24] ticket even [23:24] a) we can either get a free account being ubuntu-women.wordpress or [23:24] b) toss in a few bucks to get a paid account so we can ask canonical to point blog.ubuntu-women.org at it for now [23:25] I don't mind paying for it, apparently it's a pretty cheap yearly price, and hopefully we won't need it for more than a few months :) [23:25] pleia2, I don't mind chipping in for the paid account - then having the point to it [23:25] them (Canonical) point to it - just so we can get started [23:25] the paid WP account sounds like a good idea [23:26] the nice thing about wordpress.com is that we can give lots of different people access to posting to it :) [23:26] that's what ubuntu classroom does: http://ubuntuclassroom.wordpress.com/ [23:26] yeah - I like wordpress and the learning curve is not that high [23:27] so, want me to submit a ticket and see about time frame? then if it's going to be 2+ months from now go with wordpress.com ? [23:27] [ACTION] pleia2 to handle RT ticket(s) for Blog and Website [23:27] ACTION received: pleia2 to handle RT ticket(s) for Blog and Website [23:27] website is a different topic :) [23:27] pleia2, +1 [23:28] so, the blog is a lovely news thing, but then we have our static website which we're planning on tackling in the -M cycle [23:28] pleia2, yeah I know but if you are submitting and RT Ticket for one - I thought you wouldn't mind doing it for both :-) [23:28] akgraner: we don't have an action item for the website yet [23:28] do we? [23:28] we need more folks given access, but I don't know who and we have no plans yet [23:28] yeah I lumped them together as website/blog [23:29] but can put in another topic as website in a sec - so we can get it straight on the logs [23:29] ok [23:30] so Blog wise - pleia2 to handle RT ticket, if it's +2 months to get it hosted on Canonical site then we go to the pay for wordpress then have Canonical point to it [23:30] I'll confirm with the list about the 2+ month number once I hear back [23:31] [ACTION] pleia2 to handle RT ticket, if it's +2 months to get it hosted on Canonical site then we go to the pay for wordpress then have Canonical point to it - pleia2 will confirm with list on timeline before moving forward with pay-for account [23:31] ACTION received: pleia2 to handle RT ticket, if it's +2 months to get it hosted on Canonical site then we go to the pay for wordpress then have Canonical point to it - pleia2 will confirm with list on timeline before moving forward with pay-for account [23:32] Thanks pleia2!! [23:32] sure thing [23:32] [TOPIC] - Open Items - Website [23:32] New Topic: - Open Items - Website [23:33] this is one of our goals for the -M cycle and will be listed on the Blueprint [23:33] pleia2, can you talk about this as well please :-) [23:34] right, so as I mentioned we have our static website [23:34] my vision for this is a simplified "About" page with links to our resources [23:34] I like that idea [23:34] everything except for the index.html will be moved to the wiki [23:34] basically a landing for the project? [23:35] that would be helpful [23:35] so faq.html, getinv.html etc [23:35] and just update the look with new fonts and colors etc [23:35] all move to the wiki [23:35] yeah, and have it be a *pretty* landing page :) [23:35] that sounds sensible [23:35] Yes, good idea. [23:35] pretty is good [23:35] Pretty and organized. [23:35] I love the fact that I know I can go to the static page and get any info I need in like 3 clicks or less [23:36] yeah [23:36] but right now it's a pain to update since only a few people can and we have to edit the html directly [23:36] so I'd like to see that done away with [23:36] so if Canonical moves to Wordpress - will we use that as well? [23:36] akgraner: we'll keep this as a single static page [23:37] and set up blog.ubuntu-women.org separately [23:37] ahh gotcha - sorry - not thinking [23:37] so canonical will host: www.ubuntu-women.org, blog.ubuntu-women.org, wiki.ubuntu.com [23:37] err wiki.ubuntu-women.org [23:37] *nods* [23:38] that's pretty much all I've got, no team to implement this yet or anything, I can toss together a wiki page or something to get some thoughts together and start planning [23:38] sounds like we have a plan then [23:38] so we'll have it for UDS and beyond [23:38] and to link to the blueprint :) [23:39] pleia2, yeah lets add that to the roadmap wiki that will be linked to the blueprints [23:39] so we'll link the website wiki to the roadmap wiki and link that to the blueprint [23:39] make sense? [23:40] ah, the circle of Life [23:40] :-) [23:40] yeppers :-) [23:40] sounds good [23:41] does this discussion include content for the website or only general items - hosting, navigation...? [23:41] I have a content suggestions [23:41] [ACTION] pleia2, akgraner to update wikis for -M blueprints [23:41] ACTION received: pleia2, akgraner to update wikis for -M blueprints [23:41] tinym: we're just getting started, I think content discussions will have to happen later [23:42] the idea is that most of the content will end up on the wiki [23:42] it's really mostly there already [23:42] the static page will be just the links to the wikis [23:42] so the landing page will just be a quick intro and we'll link to resources on the wiki that anyone in the project can edit/add to [23:42] with an updated "about" if I am understanding correctly [23:42] yeah [23:43] our "about" is decent but it's a little out-dated now (especially since we now track real %s within the community) [23:43] yep [23:43] anything else about website [23:43] tinym: we can certainly use help and input once we're at that stage though :) are you on the mailing list? [23:44] I am on the mailing list [23:44] ok, great [23:44] akgraner: all done [23:44] Thanks pleia2!! [23:45] now for new items [23:45] [TOPIC] New Items - Discuss Procedures - For Mailing List Admins, Forum Moderators, IRC OPS, and various other micro-blogging and groups that have been created (FB, Identi.ca, twitter, status.net, LinkedIn). [23:45] New Topic: New Items - Discuss Procedures - For Mailing List Admins, Forum Moderators, IRC OPS, and various other micro-blogging and groups that have been created (FB, Identi.ca, twitter, status.net, LinkedIn). [23:45] he next group of leaders will hold the position for one year. There are no documented procedures for if the leaders will be automatically given ML Admin, Forum Moderator and IRC ops. There is also no documentation on how other team members become Admins, Moderators or Ops. This agenda item is to begin the discussion so that these procedures can be documented before the call for elections begins in late May. [23:45] he next group of leaders will hold the position for one year. There are no documented procedures for if the leaders will be automatically given ML Admin, Forum Moderator and IRC ops. There is also no documentation on how other team members become Admins, Moderators or Ops. This agenda item is to begin the discussion so that these procedures can be documented before the call for elections begins in late May. [23:46] s/he/The [23:47] darn it it wasn't supposed to paste twice [23:47] grrrr [23:47] Also I have seen this happen with other teams whose members set up various micro-blogging groups and only one person has access. Which is fine and dandy until something unforeseen happens and/or the person is no longer participating for various reasons and no one has access. Do we as a team want or need to create an admin pw protected area that leaders have access to should the need arise and those who created various other sites [23:47] for the group aren't available? Thoughts Ideas? [23:47] I don't have any solid ideas, but I agree with the folks on the list who think there *should* be such procedures in place to some degree [23:48] I think that's a reasonable solution [23:48] My vision for this would be - the leaders have access when it is needed - but only when absolutely necessary [23:49] and that we have team members who will handle it on a daily basis [23:49] It does sound reasonable. You definitely want >1 person to be able to get the passwords. [23:49] known procedures would be a good thing [23:49] so this could be done for mailing list and IRC (although I think leaders should just be added to the access list) [23:49] the tricky things: [23:49] 1) forums - you have to send a request to forum staff for moderator changes [23:49] there isn't really a single "log in" that can be used [23:50] but I think it is important for the leader(s) to have access and know what to do when if they need to at some point in the future [23:50] pleia2, sorry I didn't mean single log in per say - only an area where the pw are stored [23:50] there isn't a pw [23:50] or a gatekeeper appointed [23:50] pleia2, I know for forums [23:50] Related (I hope this isn't seen as a digression): it's helpful to have a page detailing who has access to what. [23:50] * pleia2 nods [23:51] akgraner: I am talking about the non-trivial resources :) [23:51] ahh :-) [23:51] Most of the time (IME), the leader doesn't necessarily want the password, but does need to be able to find out who else has access if the regular person isn't answering. [23:51] akk: there is a page on the wiki for that, lets see.. [23:52] personally, I don't think The Leader should be an op, admin, etc normally [23:52] those are specialized tasks [23:52] So not sure I have any great solutions but would like to see some procedures surrounding all that stuff - so if a member says I would like to do FOO - there is *something* documented that says how to become whatever [23:53] agreed [23:53] I don't see a problem with a leader who is also an op, if they want to be. [23:53] valorie, right but I think the leader(s) should know how, and if/when necessary be able to step up and do it [23:53] right, but an op as the PERSON [23:53] akk: http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/Contacts [23:53]