=== dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates [01:53] Hm. My battery indicator applet remains at 84% forever [01:54] ( well, until it actually dies really ) [01:57] genii: Is this a change from previous behaviour? I have a laptop that does something similar (79%) because of a hardware bug. [01:58] persia: It worked perfectly until I did the daily dist-upgrade today [01:58] Oh, good. A fixable bug. [01:59] persia: You have bug number to add to for the 79% one? [01:59] No. I didn't file a bug, because the HW is broken. Not a software issue. [02:00] Ah, OK [02:00] persia: Acer? Just curious [02:01] Sharp PC-Z1: first production run. It's fixed in the new model in the shops, but I'm cheap. [02:01] OK, thanks === JontheEchidna changed the topic of #kubuntu-devel to: Kubuntu <3 Channel | Test ISO images! | 10.04 LTS RC released!, Finally frozen | https://wiki.kubuntu.org/Kubuntu/Todo | milestoned bugs marked as kubuntu http://tinyurl.com/yjybcx9 Only 3 left to fix! === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk === keffie_jayx_ is now known as keffie_jayx [06:25] apachelogger: ping [06:26] apachelogger: hey this is shadeslayer [08:23] ScottK: when you wake up, I just wanted to check how the backports are going? [09:37] The default audio player in the KDE Software Compilation, JuK, has been improved to simplify its use, with the ability to disable cross-fading and support for MP4 and ASF files (as long as the system has this support in Taglib). Michael Pyne and Jeff Mitchell implemented these improvements, taking advantage of some Kubuntu patches. [09:38] ah, I did those Kubuntu patches ^^ [09:38] * apachelogger is almost proud now [10:44] apachelogger for juk maintainer! [10:59] :D [10:59] now that might be a bit much === steveire_ is now known as steveire [11:28] Riddell: if it's too late to fix bug #564433 it should be a SRU [11:28] Launchpad bug 564433 in kdebase-workspace "[Lucid] New bug: Plasma crash at KDE logout" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/564433 [11:31] debfx: is there a fix? [11:32] ah, yes, let's see if we can get that in [11:39] wow notify area goes away :) [11:39] ehlo peoples [11:46] ghostcube: hai [11:46] ghostcube: where is it going to? [11:47] http://design.canonical.com/2010/04/notification-area/ [11:47] into the orbit :D [11:47] hi apachelogger :) [11:48] i think this isnt the best way to go ... [11:49] but iam not someone have to decide anything heh [11:51] Riddell: Are you dealing with pitti's ping re kigo recommends? [11:51] way too long to read [11:51] did anyone else notice that lucid fills up the swap for no reason whatsoever? [11:52] apachelogger: xorg issue [11:52] -.- [11:52] horrible [11:52] ye, leak [11:53] braaargh I don't get this, why gold linker has so many failures here... [11:54] apachelogger: in short systray should go away [11:54] * Tm_T goes back to þe olde ld [11:54] no more task icons [11:54] one menu inside there are all icons categorized [11:54] and ubuntu want to push it out to the wild, no other distro so far [11:54] :) === jussi01 is now known as jussi [11:55] ScottK: yes [11:55] Great. I'll continue to ignore it then. [11:55] :D [11:55] * ScottK naps some more. [11:56] ahhh [11:57] so my system memleaks because they had to patch a bug that only affected silly clutter to begin with [11:57] sweet [12:00] ghostcube: honestly, from the things the post links to this is really just hiding things away in menus [12:01] and if so they only change the visual representation [12:01] yeah ... i dont get it really seems the only effect would be a not existing systray area [12:01] but in general it would be the same [12:03] "Many programs should not have an item in the panel at all. Where a notification area icon was being used mainly as a substitute for minimizing, the window should just minimize instead. We will be working on ways for long-running applications to be less obtrusive when their windows are minimized." [12:03] that however makes entirely sense [12:04] like say amarok, there is no point in having amarok in the tray other than preventing it from taking up loads of space if simply minimied [12:04] *minimized [12:06] agateau: I dont know what happened, but kopete doesnt load a context menu anymore and amarok doesnt show anything below the seperator (e.g. quit) [12:06] agateau: I also noticed that dbusmenu likes ot loose the stuff in amarok's context menu below the seperator a lot [12:07] like when the system is quite busy (say closing kontact and qt creator at the same time) it also doesnt load those items [12:07] right now I cant get them back though :( [12:08] hm [12:08] seems amarok doesnt even react to left click [12:08] ah [12:08] kopete neither [12:08] system is broken beyond repair [12:08] :D [12:08] well [12:08] yeah [12:09] I shouldnt click anywhere because it gets worse every time [12:10] apachelogger: many tray icons are for the wastebox :D [12:11] even the handling like right click left cclick middle click is a damn hazle [12:11] if they all would work with leftk klick like the autor said it would be an easier way [12:11] so every icon does what it wants [12:15] icons that do whatever they want are better implemented as independent applets/widgets, rather than jamming them into some arbitrary tray. [12:15] yep thats true [12:19] ghostcube: I really only now 2 kinds, those that have an associated window and those that do not [12:20] former would be quassel, latter knetworkmanager [12:20] former triggers window showing hiding on left click, latter mostly draws a menu (mostly the context menu) [12:21] middle click is undefined anyway [12:21] also I doubt a lot of users do middle clicking anyway [12:21] Many folks don't know that middle-clicking does anything. [12:22] Many laptop users *can't* middle-click (except by emulation) [12:32] JontheEchidna: is anything happening with bug 551456 ? [12:32] Launchpad bug 551456 in kcm-touchpad "systemsettings crashes when clicking "Keyboard & Mouse"" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/551456 [12:40] apachelogger: yeah but if you have for example qjackctl as try icon for jackd it has an gui for left click and an menu on right click :) [12:41] ghostcube: and I did not mention that? [12:41] oh i should read all you type o.O [12:41] clearly a form of the first kind ... UI & context menu [12:42] and technically for the latter kind UI & context is also true, just that the latter kind does not have a window but limits it's UI to a menu type of thing [12:42] yeah [12:45] apachelogger: sorry was away [12:45] apachelogger: was your machine under heavy load when it happened? [12:49] agateau: yep [12:50] I am not sure if the lack of reaction was related to dbus menu though, maybe X just exploded [12:50] apachelogger: :) [12:50] the issue where amarok doesn't load all the entries is however reproducable every once in a while [12:51] in general dbusmenu exposes the usual oddness when under heavy load [12:51] apachelogger: lots of kde menus are created on the fly, [12:51] e.g. it also happens at times that the menu flickrs or that the menu is misplaced as seen in the bug earlier [12:51] apachelogger: to avoid locking the whole plasma ui, dbusmenu has quite short timeouts [12:51] apachelogger: which may be a problem under heavy load [12:52] apachelogger: but I am not sure what's worse: showing an incomplete menu, or waiting for a long time for the full menu to be ready [12:52] former IMHO [12:52] if the menu is under heavy load [12:53] it will be perceived at sluggish [12:53] so waiting for the menu to appear might seem more reasonable [12:53] an incomplete menu is more likely to be perceived as bug IMHO [12:54] even on heavy load [12:54] apachelogger: yes, you are right I think [12:57] Riddell: I've not been able to figure that one out :( [12:58] Riddell, debfx: Adding a m_brightnessOSD(0) to the Battery class initializer seems to fix the issue for me, though [12:58] (for the plasma-desktop crash) [13:00] debfx: ah, I see you already discovered that and attatched a patch to the patch :) === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates [13:03] Hey guys just wanted to say congratulations this release of kubuntu seems to be a hell of a lot more polished, complete, functional etc etc etc [13:03] JontheEchidna: yeah sorry, should have pinged you [13:03] patching patches is really confusing ;) [13:03] debfx: actually I figured this out yesterday. I should have pinged you. ;) (Though I didn't catch the other variable not being initialized) [13:04] as long as it all works out in the end... :) [13:04] thanks davmor2 [13:04] davmor2: how's wubi installs doing? [13:05] the new brand for kickoff is not present in the RC, there is still the old one with kde logo [13:05] they all work one minor niggle with help me boot this cd but I'm not sure how many people will use that particular feature [13:07] Riddell: I am quite concerned about the kcm-touchpad crash, but I can't figure out a fix. [13:08] I really would like for us to be able to keep kcm-touchpad in the default install, but if necessary I suppose it may have to go if we can't find a fix [13:09] For maverick we may want to look in to using this KCM: http://kde-apps.org/content/show.php/synaptiks?content=114270 [13:09] It appears to be more functional. (And more importantly, maintained) [13:10] wasn't there new one in KDE 4.5? or was it that synaptiks just renamed, cannot remember === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk [13:11] dunno, not heard anything abou that === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates [13:14] seems to be in playground now, though: http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/playground/utils/synaptiks/ [13:28] KOffice 2.2rc1 tagged, yay === Tonio__ is now known as Tonio_ === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk [15:13] Riddell: no RC img of kubuntu-netbook for arm? [15:15] There wasn't? It passed RC testing: http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/build/kubuntu/all [15:17] persia: I think the arm images there are actually ubuntu ones [15:18] I don't know if kubuntu-netbook got tested [15:18] Oh. I keep misreading "netboot" as "netbook" :( [15:18] * persia goes to hunt someone with HW [15:19] ETIMEOFDAY :( [15:19] But no worries: if there are people testing, I'll make sure they sort out the ISO tracker for maverick. [15:20] freeflying: There's images on cdimage that you can use, containing the same software as the RC. There's a known bug for armel+omap, but the other subarches ought work. [15:21] freeflying: if you are able to test http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu-netbook/ports/daily-live/20100420.1/ then I can ask for it to be published [15:24] dpm: do we have current output for the KDE vs Lucid language packs report? [15:24] persia: Riddell I see, thanks, going to download, hope cna finish testing by the end of tomorrow :) [15:25] Riddell, the last one I generated was the one I sent you, but I can update it. It might take a while, though, and would be best done for the final language packs being generated today. Let me come back to you later on. [15:26] hi [15:26] hi Adri2000 [15:27] I'm looking for the images to modify in order to customize the boot screen, kdm screen, session loading screen, and such. is it written in some place? or could some kind person help me? :p [15:28] Riddell, apachelogger, ScottK, I forgot to e-mail kubuntu-devel about the language pack deadline yesterday as I told Harald I'd do. Does a heads-up ping work for you, or do you still want me to send the e-mail although it's a day late? This is just about a reminder about the translations deadline having finished and the final language packs being generated (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LanguagePackTranslationDeadline) [15:29] nixternal: what's happening with docs upload? [15:29] dpm: do you know why harald wanted the mailing list told? [15:29] Riddell: He's bitching and moaning and saying he can't upload it until Sunday. [15:30] * ScottK was about to ask the same question. [15:30] ScottK: hum, that doesn't leave much room for error [15:30] persia: so far, I don't have a omap's board :) [15:30] Adri2000: it's in various places, kubuntu-default-settings for plymouth screen, kdebase-workspace for KDM and ksplash [15:34] Riddell: I tried to point that out to him, but didn't get very far. [15:36] where is packagekit-qt upstream? I mean some source download possibility? [15:37] it's distributed with the rest of packagekit [15:38] in the libs/ directory of the packagekit source tarball [15:38] ah, thanks [15:38] wasn't clear to me [15:38] yw [15:38] apachelogger: you might be interested in this Plasma Desktop Scripting tutorial from aaron I'm scheduling http://www.doodle.com/im3gn9b9uu8acr65 [15:38] Riddell: ok, thanks! [15:42] Riddell, not sure, he just asked me to [15:46] apachelogger: bug 568965 [15:46] Launchpad bug 568965 in kubuntu-default-settings "Kickoff is not branded with new Kubuntu logo" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/568965 [15:48] lex79: not a bug [15:48] no? why? [15:49] I thought we changed the icon in kickoff [15:50] that was the branding strip inside kickoff [15:50] not the kickoff icon itself [15:51] http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~kubuntu-members/kubuntu-default-settings/ubuntu/revision/386 [15:52] that was to support people who were optionally using the old-named icon [15:53] there is an option there but by default sticking to KDE artwork is the thing to do, KDE's intention is that distros use the kickoff branding bit [16:01] hi,I point out that,plasma-deskstop crash when ktorrent is active and turn off the computer [16:03] seawolf: we fixed a plasma crash on logout a few hours ago, bug 564433 [16:03] Launchpad bug 564433 in kdebase-workspace "[Lucid] New bug: Plasma crash at KDE logout" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/564433 [16:04] ok,thank Riddell [16:07] wellllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll [16:07] lex79: I tend to agree, just that for now we decided to stick with the KDE icon [16:08] the bug is a duplicate of another bug though [16:08] and that other bug is either fix released due to the icon being present or wontfix since we dont want to change the icon, at least not at this point [16:09] Riddell: so I can nail aaron with questions about the numerous short comings? ;) [16:09] apachelogger: exactly :) [16:09] perfect [16:10] * apachelogger is wondering what times he gets displayed [16:10] ok thanks apachelogger I hope we'll change the icon in Maverick :P [16:10] Riddell: I've got one of these new Dell laptops where the screen switching key is updated for Win7. Is there something we can do to make the key useful in Kubuntu? Like fire up krandrtray or something? [16:11] Riddell: mon 14 utc is the first slot, right? [16:12] ScottK: screen switching key? [16:12] apachelogger: yes [16:12] thanks [16:12] apachelogger: is that not clear? [16:12] Riddell: the UI doesnt say whats the time is against [16:12] which is a PITA in a cross-timezone scheduling [16:12] lex79 hi,I should tell you something,query ? [16:13] seawolf: kk [16:14] Riddell: in which channel? plasma? [16:14] Riddell: http://mjg59.livejournal.com/121851.html [16:15] lex79: haven't decided yet [16:16] ok [16:18] ScottK: that post seems to suggest there's no easy way to fix it [16:18] of course debfx is the king of the random laptop keys :) [16:18] Riddell: Yeah, he said KDE didn't currently make use of it. [16:19] So there's at least no conflict. [16:19] As it is, it just types a 'p'. [16:20] so just needs khotkeys set to run kcmshell4 display ? [16:22] I'm guessing, but I really don't know. [16:22] * ScottK tries [16:25] * ScottK concludes he doesn't get how to set it iup [16:25] iup/up [17:33] ScottK: amarok registers meta+p as toggle main window :/ [17:33] Ah. Well that's going to be a problem. [17:35] * Riddell updates kdevelop in beta PPA [17:37] ooh new koffice up, /me grabs that [17:41] who's up for a round of uno later on? [17:42] apachelogger: sorry, I'm too busy watching when snow is raining and when not [17:43] defenitely latter here :( [17:43] void Text::setText(std::string text) [17:43] { [17:43] text_ = text; [17:43] } [17:43] I just typedef std::string to text ^^ [17:44] s/just/should just [17:44] looks way better without that disturbing std::string === dendro-afk is now known as dendrobates [17:56] apachelogger: you could add "using std::string;" [17:56] I could [17:56] but that wouldn't help [17:56] it still would be a string amonst text [17:56] *amongst [17:56] or among? [17:56] something like that ;) [17:58] ah I see Text is a wrapper around std::string [18:02] debfx: not really [18:02] Text is part of namespace SVG, representing the SVG text shape :) [18:03] debfx: I was refering to the beauty of the pasted function, in only working with text of some sort [18:04] ScottK: we could easily add a khotkeys group that binds the display key and meta+p to show the display settings module [18:04] though I'm not sure what happens with a conflicting global shortcut [18:05] I think it would be really useful [18:05] True [18:05] debfx: whoever comes first gets it, unless the conflict is with something outside [18:05] in this case 2 actions will happen [18:06] s/something outside/anything that does not use KDE's shortcut magic [18:07] Well I think due to MS's Win 7 changes meta+p is going to be for video switching and it would be prudent for other apps to not use it. [18:11] Riddell: sunday [18:12] for docs upload === yofel_ is now known as yofel [18:54] * ScottK just discovered task bar thumbnails. Very nice. [18:55] debfx: display key? whats that? [18:56] maco: http://mjg59.livejournal.com/121851.html [18:58] maco: XF86Display, which is emitted when pressing some laptop function key [18:58] ahhhhh the key that doesnt work on my laptop that i was at one point trying to figure out how to fix [18:58] i backburnered it when i learned to use xrandr [18:59] well it probably works but just isn't bound to any action [18:59] it doesnt emit anything [18:59] the kernel has no idea that fn+f8 does anything at all [19:00] kde 4.4 helpfully pops up a box offering to let me configure screens *with a GUI* when i plug an external in. i always click "ignore" though because i trust my knowledge of xrandr more than i trust GUIs :P [19:00] p <--- That's what mine emits [19:00] mime shows amarok ^^ [19:01] *mine [19:01] * debfx has filed a bug about that === ramanK is now known as Guest26117 [19:01] amarok opens when you plug in a screen?? [19:02] or when you hit the fn thingy? [19:02] when I hit the fn key [19:02] Hi , when I click the kppp -> create new account , it crashes . does it a known bug? [19:03] is* [19:03] so all you need to do is get a bit of electrical tape the size of the top of your key, and draw a music note in white-out on it, and then TA-DA! it's a music key, not a display key [19:03] when I plug in a screen nothing happens. maybe because it's a VGA port? [19:03] VGA's all i've got [19:04] lucid detects when i plug in a screen. takes a second or two [19:04] Guest26117: define crashes please [19:05] apachelogger: it shows a blank dialog box and does nothing [19:05] * apachelogger is wondering why his kppp is chowned to root:dip actually === dendrobates is now known as dendro-afk [19:05] Guest26117: are you on karmic? [19:06] apachelogger: I'm on lucid + latest upgrades [19:06] that is strange because it does not start here :P [19:06] oh [19:06] my [19:06] apachelogger: it starts only by root [19:07] * apachelogger ignores the family friendlyness and shouts FUCK [19:08] * Tm_T looks angry at son [19:08] ScottK, Riddell: kppp is the broken out of the box [19:08] can we pushy pushy update for that before final? [19:09] Guest26117: the thing is that you mustn't start it as root [19:09] Guest26117: sudo chown root:dialout /usr/bin/kppp [19:10] that should make it startable without root for the time being [19:10] apachelogger: How invasive is the fix? [19:10] * maco raises an eyebrow at apachelogger [19:10] apachelogger: thanks , i'll do it [19:10] ScottK: chown root:dialout /usr/bin/kppp [19:11] apparently I forgot to change debian's dip to dialout in the kdenetwork rules [19:11] dip is no default group on ubuntu though [19:11] so kppp will not even start by default [19:12] Nice. [19:12] I asked the RM if we can get it in. [19:12] apachelogger: now it says : Configuration file "/home/raman/.kde/share/config/kppprc" not writable. [19:12] Please contact your system administrator. [19:12] !!! [19:12] !!! [19:13] dont start gui apps with sudo [19:13] Guest26117: chown -Rv $USER:$USER ~/.kde [19:13] apachelogger: I started it by kick-off menu [19:13] apachelogger: You have release manager approval to fix it. [19:13] Guest26117: kickoff menu does not start it with sudo, does it? [19:13] apachelogger: Please upload as soon as you have it working. [19:14] ScottK: thanks [19:14] Guest26117: you started it with sudo one time before, right? [19:14] apachelogger: no , it doesn't [19:14] Guest26117: that changed the permissions on the files in your ~/.kde [19:14] maco: yes , I did [19:14] point in case :P [19:14] apachelogger: you got that a bit backwards... [19:16] maco: yeah, or maybe it is just like I always say weird when I am talking about wired ;) [19:16] apachelogger: you are weird, that's for sure [19:16] ...wired? [19:20] Tm_T: hungry [19:20] I have another problem on lucid : [19:21] If I manually suspend to RAM it works perfectly , but if I do it by closing the lid , after opening it , it takes several minutes to show the password dialog box [19:22] Guest26117: does kppp work now? [19:22] apachelogger: thanks , it works perfectly [19:22] Guest26117: There's a known X server memory leak. A fix is coming before release. [19:22] That would explain that [19:22] ScottK: interesting [19:23] [kdenetwork] Harald Sitter * apachelogger@ubuntu.com-20100423182354-2w2esfw4z9ihd3jo * debian/ (changelog rules) Actually change the debian/rules file as promised in ubuntu2 (LP: #278408) [19:23] Launchpad bug 278408 in kdenetwork "KPPP blank/unresponsive "Create New Account" dialog" [High,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/278408 [19:24] ScottK: uploaded [19:24] Guest26117: cool, thanks [19:24] ScottK: ooooh really??? [19:24] ScottK: could this X server memory leak explain why i often have all 4GB of memory in use after a couple days running? [19:25] ScottK: current daily powerpc image going to testrun [19:26] And my last problem in lucid is this : https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=234749 [19:26] KDE bug 234749 in widget-battery "battery monitor shows the AC adapter is plugged in at startup , but it's not" [Normal,Unconfirmed] [19:27] maco: Could. [19:28] Tm_T: Great. [19:28] * ScottK doesn't have a good answer for that last one [19:28] :( [19:31] kttsd don't work ,I feel spd-say hello, but I hear no sound [19:35] does anybody know if the nvidia prop. drivers could do grayscale well for plymouth? [19:38] My OOWriter sometimes does not show the icons (such as zoom , page view , ... ) at status bar , does yours do it? [19:41] apachelogger: Accepted. Thanks. [19:41] Guest26117: The kppp fix has been accepted for Lucid and is in the queue for building. [19:41] Guest26117: known bug [19:42] ScottK: great , thanks [19:42] maco: thanks for informing [19:42] Just keep this in mind the next time you hear someone whining about non-responsive developers. [19:42] ScottK: ;) [19:42] hahah [19:43] Where is the control knob for panel transparency? [19:43] i thought that was theme set? [19:43] BTW, we lost the "are you sure you want to remove the panel" warning patch somewhere along the way. [19:44] Maybe that's why I can't figure out how to change it. [19:45] i think you're thinking of gnome [19:45] it has a way to set the panel's transparency separate from everything else [19:45] * maco has read the source code of that [19:45] The here atmosphere is awsome , I'm a c++ programmer and I know a little about qt , is there any way that I can help ? Is any help needed? [19:46] Guest26117: fix last minute bugs before release? [19:46] What can I do? [19:47] maco: At this point most things will go into post-release updates. The reason the kppp fix got in was broken dial up networking could interefere with one's ability to get updates. [19:47] gotcha [19:47] bug 551456 could use some attention from a C++ whiz [19:47] Launchpad bug 551456 in kcm-touchpad "systemsettings crashes when clicking "Keyboard & Mouse"" [High,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/551456 [19:48] JontheEchidna: Good point. [19:48] ScottK: should be done upstream anyway ... re warning patch [19:48] didnt crash for me... [19:48] apachelogger: Agreed. [19:48] I am sure usptream finds a way to turn it into an approach that breaks within 2 releases time :P [19:48] apachelogger: I wasn't complaining, just informing [19:49] * apachelogger spent like 5 hours today writing mails about design stuff for a c++ exercise -.- [19:50] from what I can see, the crash is happening in Touchpad::get_parameter() in touchpad.cpp, and the crash happens when the function is not able to grab the parameter due to permissions [19:51] oh, hey. that's a void class. Why is it returning anything at all? [19:51] hrmhrm [19:52] because it's a pointer to a void function? [19:52] ew, this is some trippy code [19:52] Guest26117: ^^^ [19:53] sort've requires a laptop to debug, though [19:55] I tried the touchpad settings , it works without any issue for me [19:56] when a user is not in the admin group, it crashes on startup :( [19:56] so if you created a second user and tried to open up the module -> fail === ramanK is now known as Guest45281 [20:03] I created a new user and clicked the touchpad setting but it works correctly for me [20:04] but another problem occured ! when I clicked the switch user , and then the new session , it showed a black screen in died!!! [20:04] hmm, interesting [20:05] on both counts ;) [20:05] :) [20:06] I'll try it again [20:07] wow, syaptiks is pretty spiffy. It even has documentation [20:07] lol [20:07] docs ftw! [20:08] I may definitely have to advocate synaptiks over kcm-touchpad for next cycle [20:08] JontheEchidna and Guest45281: I have another clue for you: The touchpad crash isn't just if the user doesn't have admin rights, it needs to be no user with admin rights is logged in. [20:08] * ScottK got the black screen thing too [20:08] aah [20:09] if we are voting on stuff, i say shaman over kpackagekit, i hate kpackage kit [20:10] shaman doesn't have a usable dpkg backend [20:10] it useless for anything other than the very basics [20:10] nor is its UI anywhere close to being usable [20:10] JontheEchidna: that doesnt matter! [20:10] JontheEchidna: I think kpackagekit and shaman tie on usablility [20:10] chakra uses it! [20:10] chakra is cool and awesome [20:10] :P [20:10] thy must advocate the shaman I say [20:11] how shaman is supposed to work, btw? [20:11] I fail with it [20:11] BTW, I think I am finally motivated to learn enough GUI programming to get sensible update/restart notifications back. [20:11] That may be the only thing I do the next cycle. [20:11] ^^ [20:11] ScottK: well, now that the design team removes the notification area... :P [20:11] :P [20:11] shaman is too buggy , it killed my chakra just by a normal upgrade [20:11] apachelogger: Fortunately we are Ubuntu, not Kubuntu [20:11] also I read they have intrusive popups of the update window [20:12] Strike that, reverse it. [20:12] like have the window itself popup [20:12]