[01:49] <islington> anyone know the amount of work required to make a kde wallpaper package?
[01:58] <islington> If I have an SVG wallpaper should I still make render for different resolutions? Both kde and gnome seem to handle svgs as wallpaper fine.
[09:54] <knome> islington, svg's can be slow to render, so especially with low-end pc's that might be an issue.
[09:54] <knome> islington, so yes, i'd rather export the svg, but also include the svg in the source package so people can do whatever they want with it
[11:13] <vish> darkmatter: desktopwip! neat! starting clean is better ;)
[11:13] <darkmatter> ;)
[11:15] <vish> thorwil: how does the <<Include(Artwork/PageTemplate/Header)>>  work?  do we have to create a new template..
[11:15] <vish> for the wiki^
[11:28] <darkmatter> vish: I actually came up with something better :P
[11:31] <darkmatter> so after coffee I'm starting mockups. I'll still finish up the nautilus crap as well, but lets build a real library ;)
[11:35] <darkmatter> I should really do up a theme too so I can have pretty widgets, but meh. I can always redraw it later
[11:36] <thorwil> vish: what do you want to do thereß
[11:36] <vish> thorwil: nothing there , wanted to add something similar to the ayatana wiki links
[11:38] <thorwil> vish: well, the include simply adds what is in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/PageTemplate/Header
[11:38] <vish> ah ha!
[11:38] <vish> thorwil: thanks :)
[11:38] <thorwil> np
[11:39] <thorwil> vish: i think once you took care of that, i will never have to touch that wiki again and can leave it all to you! ;)
[11:39] <vish> thorwil: whaaaaaaT ?
[11:41] <thorwil> my imaginary doctor prescribed that i stay away from the wiki to help cure my inferior-infrastructure related depression
[11:43] <vish> ;p
[11:46] <darkmatter> vish: the gtk pimps better hurry up and give us the client side deco crap. having all that wasted space makes my cry :/
[11:48] <vish> darkmatter: well switch to Ubuntu , we have more client side deco ;)
[11:48] <vish> darkmatter: they havent landed upstream yet ;p
[11:49] <darkmatter> vish: I mean in general. what I'm mocking up has to fit on all distros :P
[11:49] <darkmatter> it's the realist in me ;)
[11:50] <darkmatter> I'm taking a break from the crustacean to gnomify Sojourn
[11:52] <darkmatter> it has no menubar, which helps. but meh. I should slap together a metacily for the mockups
[20:29] <thorwil> http://typographica.org/2010/on-typography/making-geometric-type-work/
[20:36] <islington> I was reading a book on typography yesterday and I came away understanding , that I did not understand very much, even worse I did not even know what I did not understand
[20:50] <vish> :D
[20:52] <thorwil> islington: that sounds like my relation to programming
[20:54] <thorwil> the durian project wants to make troy_s cry: http://durian.blender.org/news/logo-identity-design/
[20:58] <troy_s> thorwil: Yeah that's a little unfortunate.
[20:58] <troy_s> islington: You know what? That's a pretty damn astute comment. What book out of curiosity?
[21:00] <knome> thorwil, there's nice ones at http://www.blender.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17181&sid=b3bc297f1a4f044f44fb119c3a170b76
[21:04] <troy_s> Ugh. I think that link bears the whole contest-driven-output model issue out well.
[21:05] <thorwil> knome: in my eyes, there are very few there with potential and not a single one that is ready. most are childish
[21:05] <knome> yep.
[21:05] <troy_s> And apparently people can't follow a brief to save their lives.
[21:05] <troy_s> There are some pretty talented artists attracted to Blender. I suspect Ton will likely look at that smattering and simply go back to the standouts and let them design it.
[21:06] <knome> :P
[21:06] <thorwil> http://i41.tinypic.com/2psoozd.jpg would be great for a heavy metal band, i guess
[21:06] <islington> troy_s: http://www.amazon.com/Typography-Essentials-Design-Principles-Working/dp/1592535232/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1272053196&sr=8-1
[21:07] <troy_s> islington: Oh I'm jealous. Rockport makes some terrific work.
[21:07] <troy_s> islington: Haven't seen that one yet, but I'd bet it is a tome of amazing info.
[21:07] <troy_s> islington: They make some lovely books. Compendiums of very good worth.
[21:07] <troy_s> islington: Did you buy it?
[21:08] <islington> yeah I went down to borders, and read it for a while ended up buying it
[21:08] <troy_s> islington: As a side note, I _just_ stumbled across the Layout Essentials (all on grids) and it was _fantastic_.
[21:08] <troy_s> islington: I'm so jealous.
[21:08] <troy_s> islington: I bet it's as solid as their other stuff. Does it reference Tschichold?
[21:09] <islington> so far it goes through like "word" alphabet page
[21:09] <islington> then it lists like a dictionary the concept its uses and real world examples
[21:10] <islington> *word/alphabet/page are the meta categories
[21:10] <troy_s> islington: Lovely. So it's practical in terms of scope. Is there theory?
[21:10] <islington> yes but it only references theory, so I end up have to look that stuff up
[21:11] <thorwil> good night! :)
[21:11] <islington> for example in kerning it just says why kerning is done but its very short
[21:12] <troy_s> islington: Well kerning is really a sort of subclass of composition.
[21:13] <troy_s> islington: So knowing the basics of composition and training your eye for value / practise goes pretty much hand in hand with kerning. It's why I value type so much.
[21:14] <troy_s> islington: When you actually get past all the idiots that talk about some Utopian 'readability' rubbish, you really see the art and architecture of it. It's a microcosm of art / design that is so constrained that it really is a delicate razor of a field.
[21:15] <troy_s> islington: Especially when you see how type fits into history. Typographers are pretty much ear-to-the-ground on art / design, and as such, typography has a perfect parallel with the other disciplines of movement. See Postmodernist type for example.
[21:15] <islington> dude yes, I honestly did not have clue that it is that mature of a field. I started reading it because I wanted to make a typographic wallpaper, but after reading this I was like what I had so far was shit
[21:16] <troy_s> islington: You know what, if you aren't saying that daily, you aren't doing your study. lol.
[21:16] <islington> lol how true :(
[21:16] <troy_s> islington: I'm 40, have spent a whole life pretty much fascinated with art and design and I _still_ challenge myself to rethink things.
[21:16] <troy_s> islington: There are a few amazing bloody TED talks on it if you are interested (the whole 'art / design as cultural movement' meme)
[21:17] <islington> well actually i started doing some research when I watched a docu about Helvetica
[21:17] <troy_s> islington: This one is on point - http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/thelma_golden_how_art_gives_shape_to_cultural_change.html1
[21:18] <islington> then I did my gedit logo proposal and I realized I did not actually know anything
[21:18] <troy_s> islington: Clever woman. It is more relevant and on point because she specifically tackles African American art...
[21:18] <troy_s> islington: Oh... That's damn positive!
[21:18] <troy_s> islington: That means you have become aware of your role in the Denning Kruger effect.
[21:18] <troy_s> lol
[21:19] <islington> lol
[21:20] <troy_s> islington: This is John Cleese's take on it. I swear we need this pinned to the forehead of every member of our culture. http://gregorywood.co.uk/journal/cleese-on-creativity
[21:20] <troy_s> islington: When it comes to art and design, that is _precisely_ why our culture stinks.
[21:20] <troy_s> islington: Very hilarious though.
[21:20] <troy_s> islington: John Cleese sums up Denning / Kruger well.
[21:21] <islington> did you see the ted talk about where a woman was talking about why ancient civilization had so few "troubled" artists?
[21:21] <troy_s> islington: Erk. Dunning Kruger rather.
[21:21] <troy_s> islington: NO!
[21:21] <troy_s> islington: Linky!
[21:21] <islington> hold on googling
[21:21] <troy_s> islington: There is are some fantastic ones on art / design there.
[21:21] <troy_s> islington: Chris Bangles is fricking awe inspiring if only because when I was watching it I immediately was considering the evolution of computing / computers / etc. with it.
[21:25] <islington> http://www.ted.com/speakers/elizabeth_gilbert.html
[21:26] <islington> http://www.ted.com/talks/elizabeth_gilbert_on_genius.html
[21:29] <troy_s> islington: YUM. Thanks.
[21:29] <troy_s> islington: I'd highly recommend some of the other Rockport stuff.
[21:29] <troy_s> islington: You really need to make TWO purchases to round out your type books: Bringhurst and Tschichold.
[21:30] <troy_s> islington: (Great title of that talk. It is exactly what _we_ need to do!)
[21:31] <islington> will check those out ,definately!
[21:31] <troy_s> islington: Tschichold is a _perfect_ example of someone that more of us need to heed.
[21:31] <troy_s> islington: Because he forks off into the Constructivists.
[21:32] <troy_s> islington: And this fellow. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_Lissitzky See if you can see why there might be something for us to learn from the Suprematists and Constructivists.
[21:33] <troy_s> islington: In particular, this piece. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beat_the_Whites_with_the_Red_Wedge
[21:33] <troy_s> islington: (Ignore the communist connections etc.)
[21:34] <troy_s> islington: (The bigger point that an entire art movement was formed around a reaction to the society that they lived in.)
[21:34] <troy_s> islington: (And was actually _executed_ in response to that culture. A movement with such great an impact that you can browse any corner store and see some of their work handed down and iterated over on even the most cheap magazine cover)
[21:35] <troy_s> islington: (Executed being 'created' here. )
[21:35] <troy_s> islington: (Although in fact, some of the Constructivists went 'missing' thanks to the regime at the time - they were that influential.)
[21:42] <troy_s> islington: You interested at all in that?
[21:42] <troy_s> islington: Or did it just totally give you an underwhelming sense of 'meh'?
[21:59] <troy_s> islington: /me bored you to sleep. Apologies. LOL.