[00:41] Hey Keybuk so what is the expected behaviour when an Upstart job gets removed? [00:41] i.e. unlinked [01:57] depends [01:58] is the job still running? [05:26] should rc-sysinit.conf start on startup? [05:27] mine says start on filesystem and net-device-up IFACE=lo [05:28] i'll bet this is why i'm not getting a runlevel, the filesystem part is "failing" [05:28] markl_: fix the filesystem part [05:31] what if i use mount -a instead of mountall --daemon? [05:31] mountall seems to be failing badly [05:35] markl_: you should debug mountall. Keybuk and ion are probably the only two people in the world qualified to speak on it. [05:41] change the exec line in /etc/init/mountall.conf to have --debug [05:41] what error message do you see on the splash screen? [05:41] it should let you skip the failing filesystems or drop to a shell [05:50] heh [05:51] sadmac: slangasek knows the code as well ;) [05:51] well it's a little more complicated than that; i'm making an openvz template. which means no console at all; i really need to get upstart to write its debug info to a file [05:51] oh [05:51] upgrade your kernel [05:51] 10.04 LTS needs 2.6.32 minimum [05:51] mountall isn't the only thing that will fail with an earlier version, it's just the first thing that you hit [05:52] mountall, upstart, udev, ureadahead, libdrm, X, plymouth, etc. all depend on features not found in older kernels [05:54] ah fun [05:54] (and yes, I know OpenVZ is a huge pile of messy patches and there's no newer kernel version for it - I consider this an OpenVZ problem - and not the only problem with OpenVZ either) [05:56] what are some of the others, just out of curiosity? [05:56] the fact the kernel has several well known security vulnerabilities? [05:57] the fact it doesn't provide a POSIX userland? [05:59] do you have info on the current vulnerabilities? they typically keep up with the red hat kernels [06:01] not a whole lot on google about it [06:03] except hypervm, lots about that [06:06] markl_: why not kvm or linux containers then? [06:09] maybe some day, openvz is just too cool and mature. [06:09] i like the efficiency, and lxc is just not usable yet [06:09] it does suck that the vz kernel patch is so massive that linus would never accept it [06:10] isn't kvm like xen? where you have to boot up a whole new kernel? [06:10] markl_: yes. what's the problem? [06:11] http://www.hpl.hp.com/techreports/2007/HPL-2007-59R1.html [06:12] ok [06:13] http://www.brianmadden.com/blogs/videos/archive/2009/08/20/Hypervisors-vs.-OS-Virtualization-Smackdown_2C00_-a-video-from-BriForum-2009.aspx [06:13] xen-like systems are good when you don't care about efficiency [06:13] but if you need a console, or to mix different operating systems, then it is necessary [06:13] markl_: that's a strong statement [06:15] markl_: I can tell you that 5% overhead is usually expected on the RHEL virt stack [06:16] plus a ton of wasted memory [06:16] not for long [06:16] the page de-duplication stuff should fix that [06:18] yeah, i use it when i need to bring up a windows machine, it is cool for that [06:19] what do you need all these containers for then? [06:20] i keep each service on its own vm; test environments, different build enviroments for different clients [06:20] i can still use different distros at least [06:21] and it's great for bringing up a new vm quickly, since installing is just a tar command (or snapshot if you use a san) [06:22] that applies to most virt technologies [06:23] (well, not a tar command, but san snapshotting or copying the image file) [06:23] give it a try next time you are bored and looking for a toy to play with [06:24] one guy in the channel had like 1000 vm's going on his machine [06:24] hosting companies have been using it most over the past years [06:24] anyway, a real upstart question; should i be able to put "echo" in the script/end script section of one of the .conf files? [06:25] e.g. instead of mountall [06:25] e.g. echo "foo" > /tmp/foo [06:27] ok that seems to work. plymouth starts up but that is the only service [06:36] markl_: from what Keybuk just said I doubt this will ever work, or that it will make your life easier once it does. [06:37] markl_: unless you want to forward port it might be time to look for an older OS or a different container system [06:40] this is a fun way to at least get familiar with upstart. how does "emits" work? it looks like many of these scripts seem to do an exec [06:42] markl_: emits means a job may emit other events by way of its scripts. I think its used to prevent some odd races but in general its just nice to let upstart know. [06:43] emits doesn't do anything [06:43] it's just documentation [06:43] there so you can run perl over /etc/init and make dotty [06:43] Keybuk: ah. didn't it prevent some sort of potential hang at one point? [06:45] no [06:46] markl_: I have the OpenVZ guys some hints for getting an "ubuntu lite" booted on it over 6 months ago [06:46] s/have/gave/ [06:46] they are way too into rhel/centos unfortunately [06:47] RHEL 6 uses Upstart [06:47] and tbh, it's not Upstart that's the issue here [06:47] cool [06:47] it's De-HALificiation [06:47] the kernel feature that let us remove HAL was only added in recent releases [06:47] so any distro without HAL is going to hit the exact same error you hit [06:47] (iirc. mountall fails because of an assertion error opening a "udev" netlink socket?) [06:48] well the question i have is that rc-sysinit is waiting for "filesystem" [06:48] does that mean that whatever mountall.conf execs has to return a 0 code? [06:48] so that the "emits filesystem" happens [06:48] ? [06:48] no, whatever mountall.conf execs has to communicate with Upstart via D-Bus and ask for a "filesystem" event to be emitted [06:48] ignore the "emits" lines [06:49] (upstart does) [06:49] they mean as much as the "author" and "description" lines ;) [06:49] ah ok gotcha [06:49] usually replacing mountall.conf with something like [06:49] script [06:49] initctl emit virtual-fielsystems [06:49] initctl emit loacl-filesystems [06:49] initctl emit remote-filesystems [06:49] initctl emit all-swaps [06:49] initctl emit all-filesystem [06:49] end script [06:49] does most of the job [06:49] ok looks like i need to read up on initctl, ty!! [06:49] (but with better spelling) [06:49] heh [06:49] but you also need to obviously mount things [06:50] mount -a will probably work inside a vz, since you don't have to wait for the hardware [06:50] yeah i just need /proc [06:50] though bear in mind you need everything from /lib/init/fstab as well [06:51] ok cool, good to know [06:52] that should at least get you up to getty ;-) [06:52] does anything read /lib/init/fstab or is it there for documentation? [06:52] heh :) [06:53] i think i could do what i need now if i ifup the network and start ssh by hand. but that would be taking the easy way out :) [06:57] hmm, when i try to execute mount it bombs out of the mountall.conf [06:57] is there a restriction on what commands i can run in there? [07:08] ah, i see! if you execute a command that doesn't return a 0, upstart will stop executing your script [07:17] hmm well /proc is already mounted before mountall is even called [07:17] so i'll just make a mountall_vz.conf that does what you suggested up there. [07:17] i am not a fan of PFM [07:20] how important are "expect daemon" and "task" [07:31] and does "initctl emit" require a dbus process? it looks like 10.04 doesn't install any sort of dbus [07:47] hmm: # initctl emit virtual-filesystems [07:47] initctl: Event failed [07:54] ok on that note, bed time [15:24] morning [15:42] does initctl without --system require the lo interface to be up? [15:42] also, what does it mean if initctl freezes when doing something like: initctl emit filesystem [18:30] ok i'm starting to dig into the source to figure out "initctl: Event failed". Does this mean that the init process sent back a response? How can I get details on why it failed? === rberger_ is now known as rberger [18:34] markl_: it means that the event was supposed to make some job start, and that job failed to start' [19:01] ah ok so it is not just delivering the event notification, it actually gets a result back. cool [19:10] ok how does the init process know what to do with an event named "filesystem" ? [19:11] does it just run all of the confs that are set to start on filesystem? [19:23] yes [19:26] Keybuk/sadmac: good morning, long time no chat! [19:26] what time zone are you guys in? [19:27] markl_: I'm in US/Pacific at the moment; normally UK though [19:27] cool, i live in utah, not too far away [19:27] no ocean in between, at least [19:28] it is interesting that your election is getting so much coverage over here [19:38] A couple of months ago I talked with @developer about upstart and Linux Capabilities. Now I run into pam_cap -- since doing a quick and dirty hack with su/sudo wouldn't do it: http://dpaste.com/186954/ -- I was wondering how the plan to implement caps in upstart looks exactly, since this pam_caps seems like an easy way around... [19:39] there isn't a plan [19:39] that isn't to say there couldn't be a plan [19:42] Keybuk: in frisco again? [19:43] sadmac: I'm in SF yes [19:43] Keybuk: you seem to get over there an awful lot [19:47] part of the job [19:49] keybuk: Do you know whether you’ll get more time for Upstart in the next cycle? [19:53] ion: I can't see how I could possibly get any *more* time for Upstart in the next cycle [19:53] since I've arranged to be 100% working on Upstart for it [19:54] Heh [19:54] * sadmac can't get the caffene into his head any faster [19:55] I don't remember the last time I was awake [19:55] Keybuk: what's in SF that Canonical keeps sending you to go see? [19:56] sadmac: this visit was the Linux Foundation Collaboration Summit [19:56] that was last week [19:56] then there was a volcano [19:56] so now I'm not going home until the 29th April [19:56] Keybuk: not into ash? [19:57] I avoid cloud wherever possible ;) [19:58] Keybuk: I'm going be in SF in late June I think. [19:58] Keybuk: perhaps you'll find a reason to be there as well. There MAY be auto racing, and I MAY be dressed as The Stig. No promises. [19:59] lol [20:15] There, I added a rant on lunchpad... Or dinnerpad..mmm... [20:16] https://answers.launchpad.net/upstart/+question/45946 [20:33] a rant on twitter is usually equally effective [20:33] as is shouting into the wind on a rainy winter's night [20:34] (I don't think anyone reads answers.lp.net :p) [20:38] jMCg: https://bugs.edge.launchpad.net/upstart/+filebug [23:37] if i want to register an event "foo" in /etc/init, do i just add a "start on foo" line? [23:37] appears to work this time, ok cool [23:51] ok what is the point of plymouth, just to show a fancy graphical screen on bootup?