[00:00] <Jeeves_Moss> konqrunner,  kk, as I said, I think it's something stupid
[00:02] <konqrunner> Jeeves_Moss: Check your main configuration (/etc/apache2/sites-available/default). Is the default server configured as a vhost as well?
[00:02] <Jeeves_Moss> konqrunner, one sec.
[00:02] <Jeeves_Moss> konqrunner, this is an example of the v-host Dear Madam or Sir:
[00:02] <Jeeves_Moss> I would like to introduce myself as a candidate for the systems administrator position that is currently available within your organization.
[00:02] <Jeeves_Moss> Over the last twelve years I have been involved in many sales and information technology functions, in both retail and customer support environments.  Recently I have been doing contract work for local clients in a Systems and Network administrator role.
[00:02] <Jeeves_Moss> Accomplishments:
[00:02] <Jeeves_Moss> As the owner of Scotty Knows I.T., I managed many projects under contract ranging from small one person businesses up to multi-million dollar organizations.
[00:02] <Jeeves_Moss> I have had to negotiate all levels of organizations, at sites of up to 1000 employees. i.e.: Vice Presidents, Site Services Managers (Environment, Maintenance, IT, HR, Accounting, Purchasing, Engineering).
[00:02] <Jeeves_Moss> My experience at all levels and sizes of organizations has given me a better understanding of time/mission critical installations and I.T.
[00:02] <Jeeves_Moss> maintenance has become in a business’s infrastructure, and has given me the skills to best navigate and plan such work.
[00:02] <Jeeves_Moss> Implementation of:
[00:02] <Jeeves_Moss> o    Enterprise Resource Planning System as a system manager for
[00:02] <Jeeves_Moss> Northbound publications;
[00:02] <Jeeves_Moss> o    Designed training programs as Training Manager for RadioShack
[00:02] <Jeeves_Moss> Guelph (as the assistant manager);
[00:02] <Jeeves_Moss> o    Human Resources Manager (including scheduling & payroll) for Scotty
[00:03] <konqrunner> Whoa, I guess that was the wrong copy, wasn't it ;-)
[00:03] <Jeeves_Moss> konqrunner,  lol, yep
[00:04] <Jeeves_Moss> konqrunner, ok, here we go.
[00:05] <Jeeves_Moss> konqrunner, 000-default = http://pastebin.com/sNxHntXE, first v-host = http://pastebin.com/zzEriT4m
[00:06] <konqrunner> Jeeves_Moss: I think I see something
[00:06] <Jeeves_Moss> konqrunner, yea!!!  LOL
[00:07] <konqrunner> There seems to be one slash too many in your document root of the vhost
[00:07] <Jeeves_Moss> lol
[00:07] <Jeeves_Moss> ok, one sec
[00:07] <konqrunner> Try ocumentRoot /mnt/raid/www_root/moseley.ca/public_html
[00:08] <Jeeves_Moss> I want to see if this works
[00:08] <Jeeves_Moss> nope, dosn't work
[00:09] <Jeeves_Moss> brb, I have to quickly deal with an equine
[00:14] <konqrunner> Jeeves_Moss: I re-wrote part of your vhost config: http://pastebin.com/SbYJWUBT
[00:15] <cloakable> Anybody testing 10.04 at the moment? :)
[00:15] <Jeeves_Moss> konqrunner, ok, I'm back
[00:15] <Jeeves_Moss> cloakable, 10.04, not yet
[00:16] <cloakable> aha
[00:16] <konqrunner> Jeeves_Moss: I re-wrote part of your vhost config: http://pastebin.com/SbYJWUBT
[00:17] <Jeeves_Moss> konqrunner, I think that did it, one sec
[00:21] <Jeeves_Moss> konqrunner, well, it looks like the first site works, but the rest of them don't work
[00:24] <konqrunner> Hmm, I at a loss here... All config files look exactly the, all vhosts were enable (a2ensite) and all permission grant apache access to the respective directories?
[00:25] <Jeeves_Moss> konqrunner,  lol, so am I.  it should just be, make the v-host configs, restart the server, and away we go
[00:34] <konqrunner> Jeeves_Moss: Did you change the default site's config as well? I'm pretty sure there was something about _not_ placing a trailing slash on DocRoots...
[00:34] <Jeeves_Moss> hummm, not that I remember
[00:35] <konqrunner> What- the slash or the change of the default config..? :-)
[00:35] <Jeeves_Moss> konqrunner,  this is pissin' me off!  LOL
[00:37] <Jeeves_Moss> konqrunner, the ONLY configs in the sites-enabled are the 2 v-hosts (same as the ones you sent me, diff server/doc roots),
[00:37] <konqrunner> Jeeves_Moss: Well, if the first site works, then disengage the other vhosts (a2dissite), delete the configs in /etc/apache2/sites-available...
[00:37] <Jeeves_Moss> ok, one sec
[00:38] <konqrunner> then copy the working vhost's config and alter it to the appropriate names etc
[00:38] <konqrunner> then a2ensite, apache2 restart and try again...
[00:38] <Jeeves_Moss> we're getting this when I restart apache.  "[Fri Apr 23 19:38:37 2010] [error] (EAI 2)Name or service not known: Could not resolve host name *: -- ignoring!"
[00:39] <konqrunner> Hah! Then check your dns config!
[00:40] <konqrunner> If you're trying to set the sites up locally, you'll probably have to enter their name in /etc/hosts
[00:40] <jorge_> hi everyone, im having problems connecting to a PPTP VPN server, it works in windows, but it doesnt on ubuntu 9.10, I check syslog says: modem hangup..any clues?
[00:40] <Jeeves_Moss> konqrunner, this box dosn't have DNS installed on it (and neither did my last config before the HDD died), and I had it working
[00:41] <konqrunner> jorge_: that's a network manager problem (it was for 9.04) - check Launchpad for the bug report
[00:43] <Jeeves_Moss> konqrunner, ideas?
[00:46] <konqrunner> Jeeves_Moss: Hang on, I found a similar error in a German ubuntu forum - I'll have to translate it first
[00:48] <konqrunner> Jeeves_Moss: Okay, no. 1: Are you testing locally or on a fully-qualified internet host?
[00:51] <konqrunner> Jeeves_Moss: And no. 2: Are the domains possibly registered to an IP address other than the machine's that you're currently working on?
[00:52] <Jeeves_Moss> konqrunner, this box is behind a NAT (with port forwarding), and the domains are pointing to my static IP
[00:55] <konqrunner> Okay, looks like the directive 'NameVirtualHost' is the culprit.
[00:55] <Jeeves_Moss> konqrunner, ???
[00:56] <konqrunner> Seems that apache gets hickkups when several config files have this directive. the guy here in germany solve the problem by commenting the directive
[00:58] <Jeeves_Moss> konqrunner, sorry, how do I fix it?
[00:58] <konqrunner> Jeeves_Moss: I don't have NameVirtualHost defined in my configs and all vhosts work like a charm
[00:59] <Jeeves_Moss> konqrunner, one sec.
[00:59] <konqrunner> So, comment or delete NameViortualHost from your configs and give it a shot
[01:00] <Jeeves_Moss> konqrunner, ok, I'm going to try taking it out
[01:00] <konqrunner> Alternatively, place 'NameVirtualHost 127.0.0.1:80' in your 000-default and omit it from the vhost configs
[01:00] <Jeeves_Moss> konqrunner, some thing.  "[error] (EAI 2)Name or service not known: Could not resolve host name *: -- ignoring!"
[01:09] <konqrunner> Jeeves_Moss: Could you paste your /etc/hosts, please?
[01:10] <arrrghhh> hey all, i'm trying to use MPD on a fresh ubuntu-server install... it's segfaulting when i try to play anything, but mplayer can play the songs just fine.  it *looks* codec related, does MPD need some special codecs above and beyond what mplayer would need?
[01:13] <konqrunner> Jeeves_Moss: Yep, I googled and found tons of references to dns lookup going haywire. So, we've gotta look at your hosts...
[01:17] <Jeeves_Moss> konqrunner,  lol, ok, where to start?
[01:18] <arrrghhh> pastebin your hosts file?
[01:18] <Jeeves_Moss> konqrunner, I know that my sites are pointing to my static IP (the setup through zoneedit.com worked before)
[01:19] <Jeeves_Moss> konqrunner, http://pastebin.com/fuudWH7j
[01:21] <arrrghhh> maybe i'm not following.  those look fine.
[01:22] <konqrunner> exept for the fact, that the vhosts are not listed...
[01:22] <arrrghhh> oh i don't have any vhosts in mine
[01:23] <arrrghhh> just one site
[01:23] <Jeeves_Moss> lol, sorry, was that related to me?
[01:23] <konqrunner> Should be something like '127.0.0.1 localhost moseley.ca', so that your machine knows that it must route your browser's request to your local machine, I guess
[01:24] <Jeeves_Moss> well, will that fix the external requests as well?  (and I never remember setting it up in the hosts file on the old config)
[01:24] <arrrghhh> that has nothing to do with external requests
[01:25] <arrrghhh> it'd only effect your local machine
[01:25] <konqrunner> yep, exactly
[01:25] <Jeeves_Moss> I'm lost
[01:25] <arrrghhh> who is your host?  is that where you're having trouble?
[01:25] <arrrghhh> i missed the problem, i kinda jumped in sorry...
[01:26] <Jeeves_Moss> arrrghhh, you're refering to me?
[01:26] <arrrghhh> yes
[01:27] <Jeeves_Moss> arrrghhh, ok, sorry.  the box is in my basement.  I'm on a ADSL line (wiht a static IP).  I orignally had a server set up here (the HDD's spindle died), so I lost everything.  And now, I'm trying to get it set up again.  So far, the ONLY thing I can get setup is my FTP.  :-(  I need to get 9 domains setup on this box (via v-host).
[01:27] <arrrghhh> thru apache...?  or on the box itself?
[01:27] <konqrunner> Jeeves_Moss: I just saw this: Your vhosts are outside your server's root, right?
[01:28] <Jeeves_Moss> arrrghhh, it's on the box (ie. e-mail (still not looking forward to seeing that up), FTP, HTTP, etc)
[01:28] <Jeeves_Moss> konqrunner, each domain has it's own user
[01:29] <Jeeves_Moss> konqrunner, the only thing they share is the same group (www-data)
[01:29] <konqrunner> Sorry, I meant 'root directory'
[01:29] <Jeeves_Moss> konqrunner, sorry, I'm not sure what you're asking.  All of the v-host's roots are off of "/mnt/raid/www_root/"
[01:30] <konqrunner> yes, but your server's root directory is on /var/www
[01:30] <Jeeves_Moss> konqrunner, it should me
[01:30] <konqrunner> ???
[01:31] <arrrghhh> it doesn't have to be /var/www tho
[01:31] <Jeeves_Moss> konqrunner, there should be no other HTTP requests on this box.  ANY HTTP resuest has to be one of the v-hosts
[01:32] <Jeeves_Moss> and all of the vhosts roots are in "/mnt/raid/www_root/"
[01:32] <arrrghhh> i'm assuming you're using bind9?
[01:32] <Jeeves_Moss> arrrghhh, my ISP won't allow me to run a DNS server, so I have the DNS hosted @ ZoneEdit.com
[01:33] <Jeeves_Moss> arrrghhh, and we know all of the vhosts point to the proper static IP
[01:34] <arrrghhh> i guess i'm confused as to how you point that... i've only used vhosts with apache.
[01:36] <Jeeves_Moss> arrrghhh, ok. DNS is handled by ZoneEdit.com  (try pinging www.moseley.ca, it'll resolve to my static IP).  what I'm having the issue with is that I can't get the Apache server to point requests for moseley.ca to /mnt/raid/www_root/public_html/ and requests for www.tessawhite.ca to point to /mnt/raid/www_root/tessawhite.ca/public_html/
[01:37] <arrrghhh> Jeeves_Moss, i know how to split up apache servers into virtual hosts, you sounded like you wanted the whole server split into virtual hosts... i have no clue how that works.
[01:38] <arrrghhh> other than, well virtual machines... but that's completely different.
[01:38] <Jeeves_Moss> arrrghhh, all of the websites and other vhosted sites are ALL on the same server
[01:39] <arrrghhh> you made it sound like you wanted more than just apache vhosts
[01:39] <Jeeves_Moss> arrrghhh, nope, I just need apache v-hosts.  that's all I want.
[01:39] <arrrghhh> oh
[01:39] <arrrghhh> well
[01:40] <Jeeves_Moss> arrrghhh, I'm dealing with the other vhost stuff (ie. FTP, e-mail, etc) on my own.
[01:40] <arrrghhh> http://ubuntu-tutorials.com/2008/01/09/setting-up-name-based-virtual-hosting/
[01:41] <Jeeves_Moss> arrrghhh, one sec, I have something like that set up already
[01:41] <Jeeves_Moss> arrrghhh, brb, I have to move this PC.  2 mins
[01:46] <kirkland> smoser: you're dead on correct about kvm-ok
[01:46] <kirkland> hggdh: cool, let me know how that goes
[01:48] <Jeeves_Moss> arrrghhh, ok, sorry, I had to move locations
[01:49] <arrrghhh> ok...
[01:49] <konqrunner> Jeeves_Moss: Please check the permissions for /mnt/raid/www_root. apache2 needs r-x access to theses directories. Additionally, make sure that it says '<VirtualHost 216.75.169.29:80>' in each of the config files - instead of VirtualHost *:80
[01:49] <Jeeves_Moss> arrrghhh, ok, so, what's the plan here?  let me get a copy of one of my vhost configs
[01:49] <arrrghhh> did you read the tut?  that's the plan.
[01:50] <arrrghhh> it walks you thru it, much better than i ever could.
[01:50] <Jeeves_Moss> ok, one sec
[01:50] <Jeeves_Moss> will that take care of being behind a NAT (port forwarding on), etc?
[01:50] <Jeeves_Moss> URL again?
[01:50] <arrrghhh> i'd do that in the router
[01:50] <arrrghhh> http://ubuntu-tutorials.com/2008/01/09/setting-up-name-based-virtual-hosting/
[01:51] <Jeeves_Moss> arrrghhh, I did the port forward allready on the router, etc
[01:51] <arrrghhh> then don't worry about it on the server
[01:51] <arrrghhh> just match up ports
[01:51] <arrrghhh> to the vhosts config
[01:55] <Jeeves_Moss> arrrghhh, I have port forwarding on the router to the server's internal address.  and this is a paste of one of the vhost configs.  http://paste.ubuntu.com/421383/
[01:56] <arrrghhh> so are you having issues?  did that tut not get you thru it/
[01:57] <Jeeves_Moss> arrrghhh, try hitting moseley.ca and tessawhite.ca
[01:57] <arrrghhh> they both say the same thing, but yea
[01:58] <Jeeves_Moss> arrrghhh, that's the problem.  each vhost doccument root has something TOTALLY differen't in them!
[01:58] <arrrghhh> well you're doing something wrong :D  i'm no expert on this, that tut should take you thru the apache config.
[01:58] <Jeeves_Moss> arrrghhh, thanks.
[01:58] <konqrunner> (02:49:31)Jeeves_Moss: Please check the permissions for /mnt/raid/www_root. apache2 needs r-x access to theses directories. Additionally, make sure that it says '<VirtualHost 216.75.169.29:80>' in each of the config files - instead of VirtualHost *:80
[01:58] <arrrghhh> i mean if something is buggered on the provider side, in your router... there's too many variables.
[01:59] <Jeeves_Moss> arrrghhh,  when I try to restart apache, I get "[error] (EAI 2)Name or service not known: Could not resolve host name *: -- ignoring!"
[01:59] <arrrghhh> you can't put in *
[02:00] <Jeeves_Moss> arrrghhh, into WHAT though?  that's the queston
[02:01] <arrrghhh> the IP?
[02:01] <Jeeves_Moss> in what config file though?
[02:01] <arrrghhh> i'm not trying to be a d!ck, but did you read the tut?
[02:03] <Jeeves_Moss> lol, not yet.  reading it now
[02:03] <Jeeves_Moss> arrrghhh, and no, you're not being a dick
[02:07] <Jeeves_Moss> arrrghhh, ok, followed the "howto", and we're still getting "[error] (EAI 2)Name or service not known: Could not resolve host name *: -- ignoring!"
[02:09] <arrrghhh> did you put an IP in for the *?
[02:09] <arrrghhh> it looks like IP:Port
[02:10] <Jeeves_Moss> yep.  I made a global.
[02:10] <Jeeves_Moss> http://paste.ubuntu.com/421388/
[02:16] <Jeeves_Moss> arrrghhh,  FIGURED IT OUT!!!!  add "NameVirtualHost *" to the apache2.conf file!!!!!
[02:19] <hggdh> kirkland: topo4 has some config problems
[02:23] <arrrghhh> lol that's in the tut too.  but i'm glad you figured it out...
[02:25] <Jeeves_Moss> arrrghhh, in some sick ways, it's better than sex@
[02:25] <arrrghhh> what, going thru tutortials step-by-step?
[02:26] <arrrghhh> nvm, you couldn't have done that.
[05:49] <au> hello everybody :) I have my usb modem plugged in the usb port of my home server, about to get it running with wvdial however I've ran into the problem of what the device is in /dev/something. How can I find out?
[05:49] <au> I can see it in lsusb, Bus 001 Device 005: ID 19d2:2000
[06:14] <axisys> is there any tool that take csv files and generate google chart ?
[06:58] <KurtKraut> axisys, what is a 'Google Chart' precisely?
[06:59] <axisys> KurtKraut: i meant google chart api
[06:59] <axisys> http://code.google.com/apis/charttools/index.html
[07:01] <apctr> hi all plz tell me how to start internet without gui in server edition. I use manual proxy settings to start internet.
[07:03] <KurtKraut> apctr, you may upload the CSV to Google Spreadsheet and then use Google Chat: http://code.google.com/intl/pt-BR/apis/visualization/documentation/spreadsheets.html
[07:05] <KurtKraut> ooops
[07:05] <KurtKraut> axisys,  you may upload the CSV to Google Spreadsheet and then use Google Chat: http://code.google.com/intl/pt-BR/apis/visualization/documentation/spreadsheets.html
[07:11] <scar> hi all :)
[07:12] <scar> thinking about installing ubuntu server with several virtual machines too... looking forward to working with you
[07:36] <ShadeS> working with you?
[08:16] <scar> ShadeS, indeed. "you all"
[09:41] <peterlh> Hi all, we'r running jaunty servers now, and i want to upgrade to the new LTS version thats comming up. Do you advise to make a release upgrade to karmic first, and then to LTS? or to release upgrade directly to lucid when its released?
[10:00] <red2kic> peterlh: You can't upgrade directly to lucid from jaunty.
[10:02] <peterlh> red2kic: oh okay, then its a easy choice... Thoughts one could do it directly with do-release-upgrade -p lucid
[10:02] <peterlh> i'll just do it in two steps, i know that works too
[10:02] <red2kic> peterlh: Hardy (LTS) --> Lucid (LTS).  Yes.
[10:03] <red2kic> peterlh: You're always advised to make a backup first before making any changes.
[10:03] <peterlh> okay, once iam in a LTS release, i can continue staying it LTS, thats great.
[10:03] <peterlh> red2kic: yes indeed, one of the nice features of virtualization :-)
[10:03] <peterlh> so easy to test stuff like upgrades
[10:04] <red2kic> I think I'm going to make a final backup and roll over to lucid. I can't wait a week. :(
[10:05] <peterlh> hehe :)
[10:06] <peterlh> got a lucid running too, but only for test until its release.. i dont dare upgrade the production machines just yet
[10:07] <peterlh> but lucid has some nice updates, indeed
[10:53] <morrowyn> mroning
[11:58] <lool> Hmm plymouth is included in the UEC images, is that intended?
[12:00] <persia> lool: Can't safely boot without plymouth anymore, so I'm sure the answer is "yes".  UEC images are kinda special, because they should never have meaningful boot-time messages, but that's a different matter, and likely needs special-casing.
[12:02] <xr600> Any of you guys familiar with diferent types of mailservers for Ubuntu ?!
[12:02] <lil_cain> I've used postfix a little, and exim4 a lot.
[12:02] <lool> persia: Do you know how to disable switching to graphics mode entirely?  tried nomodeset, modeset=0, text, nosplash and still no luck
[12:03] <lool> I'm using kvm -curses, and after the early kernel output, I get "640 x 480 mode" full screen and kvm -curses is useless..
[12:03] <persia> I don't.  I know there's a text theme for plymouth that happens.  I think you have to make the framebuffer not load.
[12:03]  * persia checks backscroll for a reference
[12:04] <lool> persia: Yes, that's what I'm trying to do
[12:04] <xr600> -Hm, well I'm looking for a mail server solution that registers the read history of messages... Meaning who reads the messages and when. Possibly wit ha web-interface (If not, I will make an interface myself...)
[12:05] <lil_cain> xr600: You're not looking for a mailserver in that case. You're looking for a client.
[12:06] <lil_cain> I don't think I've ever heard of such a thing though. I suspect dovecot or squirrel mail could do it if you turned their logging up loads though. (dovecot being an imap server, and squirrelmail a webmail system)
[12:06] <xr600> lil_cain: well, I would prefer a web-based client solution... But a stand alone client is also an option...
[12:06] <xr600> I do know the squirrelmail
[12:06] <persia> lool: I *think* it might be related to "<Keybuk>  echo FRAMEBUFFER=y >> /etc/initramfs-tools/conf.d/splash"
 update-initramfs -u
[12:07] <persia> Err, no I'm reading that backwards.  Try FRAMEBUFFER=n or similar.
[12:07] <persia> FRAMEBUFFER=y is supposed to *disable* the text mode
[12:07] <xr600> I once made something similar on Windows with hMailserver... It ran MySQL, and I simply made an additional history table + a trigger as I recall...
[12:09] <lool> persia: I'm not using an initrd
[12:09] <lool> UEC just has a kernel + ext fs
[12:09] <lool> ext3 actually!!
[12:11] <persia> Oh, right, and there were some special upstart jobs to try to make that work.  Now I'm unsure, but I think mountall needs plymouth to communicate at all.
[12:12] <lool> persia: In itself, plymouth would be ok in text mode
[12:12] <persia> But it may be that plymouth is not configured correct.  You probably want to ask smoser who spent a fair amount of time digging at this.
[12:12] <lool> but it's switching to VGA graphics mode
[12:12] <persia> Right, which is the issue.
[12:12] <lool> smoser: ^
[12:15] <lool> even with vga=ask and selecting 0 (80x25 text mode), it switches over
[12:15] <lool> grmpf
[12:15] <jayvee> does anyone else run ipsec on linux-image-virtual?
[12:16] <jayvee> I'm trying to do is, and I get "no netkey IPSec stack detected" when attempting to start strongswan
[12:16] <jayvee> which basically means it can't load the ipsec modules
[12:16] <jayvee> I've got several other ubuntu machines it works on
[12:16] <jayvee> just this one is the virtual kernel
[12:16] <jayvee> I'm running the virtual kernel because I thought it might use less resources or something. Is that true?
[12:18] <persia> lool: What happens when you do vga=none? and boot to virtual serial console?
[12:20] <lool> persia: booting with vga=none now
[12:20] <lool> same thing
[12:20] <lool> to reproduce: kvm -kernel lucid-server-uec-amd64-vmlinuz-virtual -hda lucid-server-uec-amd64.img -curses -append "root=/dev/sda vga=none"
[12:20] <persia> File a bug then.  It *really* shouldn't load any graphical interface when there isn't even a video adaptor available.
[12:22] <lool> persia: there's an emulated video adapter
[12:22] <lool> oh you mean to kvm
[12:22] <lool> I thought you were mentionning the kernel cmdline
[12:22] <lool> -vga none + -curses gives me no output
[12:23] <persia> No, vga=none should turn of emulation of the video adaptor in kvm.  My use case of interest is NAS devices, but that's irrelevant to the nature of the bug :)
[12:23] <jayvee> -nographic is what I use
[12:23] <persia> UEC also has no meaningful video adaptor (and it's probably a waste of processor to bother initialising it in many cases)
[12:25] <morrowyn> what is recommended for imap/pop dovecot or courier?
[12:25] <jayvee> I prefer dovecot
[12:25] <jayvee> it's really simple
[12:27] <ubuntu> does anyone know if it would be possible to istall uuntu server on my aptop then install the various ubuntu desktops as virtual machines?
[12:28] <ubuntu> i saw something in the 9.10 setup about vm for 64bit machines
[12:28] <morrowyn> so basically it's a matter of how easy it's to set it up, but when it comes to performance/security it doesn't matter
[12:29] <morrowyn> ubuntu, sure you can, look at xen, vmware, virtualbox
[12:29] <jayvee> ubuntu: you don't need the "server edition" to be able to use virtual machines
[12:29] <ubuntu> morrowyn, i thought these were sperate os
[12:29] <jayvee> nope
[12:29] <jayvee> they are the same operating system
[12:29] <jayvee> they just come with different packages by default
[12:30] <jayvee> so it's the same operating system, just in different "flavours"
[12:30] <jayvee> you can turn one into the other by installing and removing the various packages :)
[12:30] <morrowyn> different default installed packages
[12:30] <morrowyn> server has more server related ones (mail, dns, web, etc.) , desktop has ( x11, media stuff etc.)
[12:31] <ubuntu> jayvee, i know that part but i meant vmware i thought was an os by itself and a proprietary one
[12:31] <morrowyn> you just install the vmware on your machine, that one will act as a host for your guest vm
[12:31] <ubuntu> i figured if the server was the base then the vm could acess the server ervices like mail etc
[12:33] <morrowyn> you could do that, but you might want ot grab the desktop ed. and install the postfix/dovecot/courier/etc.etc. on it instead of creating overhead on your vm's
[12:33] <ubuntu> i was envisioning a srver base then i could just bring up the other ubuntus with a command but i didnt want to ue vmware because it costs does ubuntu server allow something like this
[12:34] <jayvee> yes, I'd use virtualbox personally
[12:34] <persia> ubuntu: You could set it up that way: but which flavour you happen to install on a machine doesn't in any way restrict you to which packages you can install; you can even switch flavours from an installed system, if you like.
[12:34] <jayvee> by the way, I wouldn't install the server edition, because the server edition only comes with a command line interface by default
[12:34]  * persia uses kvm and/or qemu
[12:34] <jayvee> which means that you wouldn't be able to see the VMs you are running
[12:34] <morrowyn> you can install sudo apt-get install gnome-desktop  ???
[12:35] <morrowyn> on the server
[12:35] <persia> jayvee: Why not?  Use libvirt-bin, and export them over VNC to some (other) client :)
[12:35] <jayvee> he has said it is a laptop
[12:35] <morrowyn> if its a powerful laptop
[12:35] <jayvee> yes, I know you can and do run headless VMs in practice, but I don't really think this is what he wants to do
[12:35] <ubuntu> i know but i like to compartmentalize my systems for different tasks instead of having everything on one system
[12:35] <persia> morrowyn: No, but that's only because there's no "gnome-desktop" package.  You can run `apt-get install ubuntu-desktop` and end up with a full desktop environment on next reboot.
[12:36] <ubuntu> and i dont want to have several boxes
[12:36] <persia> (actually, you don't need to reboot, but you may have to fiddle some services by hand if you don't)
[12:37] <persia> jayvee: I'm not talking about headless VMs: using VNC as X output works just fine :)
[12:37] <ubuntu> i know the cloud computing option has installabl vms but can i bring the vm up on the same box as the server is installed?
[12:37] <persia> ubuntu: Install a minimal base, and a virtualisation host (libvirt-bin, etc.).  Create a bunch of virtual machines there, and run your stuff in the virtual machines.  Should work just fine.  I believe "Virtualisation Host" is one of the available options on install of the server flavour.
[12:38] <persia> Yep.  Works trivially easily.
[12:38] <ubuntu> persia, that sounds about like what i want to do
[12:39] <morrowyn> ubuntu, why not look at http://onlamp.com/pub/a/bsd/2003/09/04/jails.html  or chroot everything on your one box
[12:39] <ubuntu> 10gig vms should be enough to have every flavor on my laptop then
[12:39] <lool> wow running the ec2 kernel in kvm -curses gives spectacular results
[12:39] <persia> 4G each should be sufficient (although 10 allows for installing more additional software)
[12:40] <persia> lool: How does it differ from running e.g. -server?
[12:40] <morrowyn> and dump everything into a database, so you can easily export to other boxes
[12:40] <morrowyn> if need be
[12:41] <ubuntu> im going to google for virtualization host install mode and see if thats what i need after firefox frees up im uploading a video to vimeo
[12:41] <ubuntu> it locked up my entire firefox for some reason
[12:41] <morrowyn> because you will hurt your system on the ram
[12:41] <persia> morrowyn: Why?
[12:43] <ubuntu> so until i can get goog again i will continue to ask questions so once i setup a vm host they will be able to be pulled up on the box the host is on right?
[12:43] <morrowyn> well,  running server + vmware + (guest os + mailserver) +  (guest os + desktop) vs.   server + mailserver + desktop on laptop with capped system resources on cpu/ram
[12:44] <ubuntu> and will i be able to install the systems on the vm using the isos or do i have to get some vm iages or will i have to make them somehow?
[12:45] <morrowyn> just tell your vm's to boot from iso
[12:45] <persia> morrowyn: Ah, right.  because kernel+some libraries are loaded twice.
[12:46] <persia> But I'd not use vmware for the vms anyway :)
[12:46] <ubuntu> i know it will bog myt ram i can just buy some more, im envisioning a big security avantage because i can have my personal data encrypted on a vm with no network  ifs on and then brows in another vm that is like a live cd so
[12:47] <morrowyn> you can encrypt you entire harddrive , use imap or pop3 over ssl, gpg your email, but all this has nothing to do with using vm's and separate stuff
[12:48] <ubuntu> well if someone exploits a vm they cant touch the rest of the sytstem
[12:48] <morrowyn> well if you jail/chroot your stuff, they also have a hardtime
[12:49] <morrowyn> to jailbreak out, especially if you hdd is encrypted
[12:49] <morrowyn> to me, the weakest link in your entire security will always be the human mindset using the system
[12:50] <ubuntu> besides i like the different desktops because i can setup one vm for ubuntu studio which needs special settings and kernal but then another for pesonal data and yet another for security auditingg
[12:50] <morrowyn> they can be social engineered or just become lazy or annoyed by security settings and eventually will sabotage everything to get their stuff done
[12:51] <ubuntu> exactly if i get lazy on a vm wont matter because the other vm isnt even connected
[12:52] <morrowyn> :)
[12:52] <persia> morrowyn: HD encryption completely fails to provide any protection against chroot jailbreaking: the binaries in the chroot *already* have access to the unencrypted filesystem.
[12:52] <persia> ubuntu: Running ubuntu studio in a VM is very likely to have unacceptable performance.  This is expected behaviour.
[12:53] <jayvee> agreed
[12:53] <persia> But ask in #ubuntustudio if you want deeper explanantion on that,
[12:54] <morrowyn> wow, i didnt know that, ubuntu studio
[12:54] <morrowyn> hopefully that ditched cinelerra
[12:54] <morrowyn> that/they
[12:54] <morrowyn> if it still exist
[12:55] <ubuntu> they use kino now
[12:55] <ubuntu> its very basic
[12:55] <morrowyn> hmmm, you want to run heavy duty ram usage program inside a vm ?
[12:55] <ubuntu> im going to hope over there and ask some questions
[12:55] <morrowyn> hmmm, kino, wow, thats really basic
[12:55] <jayvee> ubuntu: maybe you should change your nickname from “ubuntu” :)
[12:56] <ubuntu> im about to wipe this system as soon as my video gets to vimeo
[12:56] <morrowyn> pity shake is discontnued by apple
[12:58] <morrowyn> and gimp, well, it's gimped in comparison to photoshop
[13:03] <ubuntu> thanks for the talk guys
[13:04] <morrowyn> welcome
[13:04] <lool> persia: It gives garbled output on the host, using random colors and chars, it's a piece of modern art
[13:04] <persia> Oh, cool!
[13:04] <morrowyn> cool
[13:05]  * persia suspects that's a bug though
[13:05] <morrowyn> kind of like a snowcrash on old crt screen
[13:36] <ubuntu> crap intel dont support virtualization
[13:36] <ubuntu> i guess because its not true 64
[13:36] <ubuntu> looks like all amd cpu support vt
[13:36] <persia> It's significantly more complex than that.
[13:36] <ubuntu> i have a core2duo
[13:38] <persia> Plus, there's two flippable bits on the chips that support virtualisation, and the BIOS may do one or another things with them.  One turns on and off virtualisation support, the other locks/unlocks the first.  So the common implementations are 1) BIOS locks VM on, 2) BIOS locks VM off, 3) BIOS allows the user to set VM on/off and locks the result, 4) BIOS doesn't lock.
[13:39] <jaypur> does anyone know how can i monitor my cpu and motherboard temperature at ubuntu-server???
[13:39] <jaypur> is it the same way as the ubuntu desktop?
[13:40] <ubuntu> persia, but the cpu doesnt have it according to intel website the thing is if it were just a bios issue im sure coreboot would fix that
[13:41] <persia> jaypur: It's precisely the same
[13:41] <ubuntu> jaypur, im sure there is a package that will monitor it but i dont know the name
[13:41] <persia> If the CPU doesn't have it, you're out of luck.
[13:42] <persia> But don't think it's a per-CPU vendor thing
[13:42]  * persia has CPUs from AMD that don't do VMX
[13:42] <ubuntu> i think the package you need depends on your hardware
[13:43]  * persia also has chips from Intel that report no VMX in the specs that support VMX perfectly fine
[13:43] <lil_cain> persia: There is an AMD lookalike to VMX
[13:43] <ubuntu> im thinking this is because amd pioneered 64bit x86 cpus thier site says:  Powering ultrathin notebooks to blade servers, all AMD processors shipped are designed to use AMD-V™ features.
[13:44] <ubuntu> i guess it is all opterons
[13:44] <ubuntu> i need to start searching for an operon laptop with 1394
[13:45] <lil_cain> I'd be surprised to see an Opteron laptop.
[13:45] <lil_cain> But, some of the phenoms have the virtualisation bit, at least
[13:45] <persia> lil_cain: Not for the Athlon XP 64 X2 4600+ :p
[13:46] <jaypur> persia, i installed lm-sensors and gkrellm... to run at my laptop by ssh... but it's not getting the temperature...
[13:46] <persia> The point being that the presence or absence of virtualisation support is per-chip, not per-vendor.
[13:47] <persia> jaypur: It may be that your hardware doesn't report it in a way that your software understands.  I have one server where /proc/acpi/thermal_zone has no entries, as an example.
[13:47] <ubuntu> i wonder if corporations install backdoor virtualization in the hardware maybe thats why toshiba is called sattelite
[13:48] <jaypur> persia, i have ubuntu-desktop at the server machine, and now i'll test it...
[13:48] <persia> That's not how that company selected that name.
[13:50] <ubuntu> well i guess i cant do vm unless the cpu supports it right?
[13:52] <persia> Not without significant performance penalty.
[13:52] <persia> virtualbox and qemu are two tools you can use without processor support, but you'll never get quite the performance you would get with processor support.
[13:53] <ubuntu> i imagine instead of the vms acessing the cpu directly they would go through the base kernall is that why
[13:53] <persia> No.
[13:53] <persia> Well, kinda.
[13:53] <jaypur> persia, yup... just tested... it does not give support to my server hardware...
[13:53] <jaypur> i installed lm-sensors and gkrellm
[13:54] <persia> jaypur: There may be special utilities for your hardware, but you'll have to search for them.
[13:55] <persia> So, if the processor doesn't support virtualisation, one needs to support virtualisation in software, which means running code to manage separation of host/guest memory, processes, etc., which adds overhead.
[13:55] <jaypur> persia, my cpu is a p4 2.0 and the motherboard is an asus p4s533...
[13:55] <persia> Some of this code is kernel, but lots of it is userspace.  When the processor supports virtualisation, much of the userspace stuff can be passed to the kernel virtualisation module, which can pass it to the hardware.
[13:56] <persia> jaypur: I don't know offhand what you need, sorry.
[13:56] <jaypur> persia, i wanna know what should i do to detect my hardware....
[13:56] <ubuntu> i think it has to do with acpi jaypur
[13:56] <jaypur> ubuntu, tell me more plz...
[13:56] <ubuntu> read the desriptions of the packages t explains it
[13:57] <persia> It doesn't necessarily have to do with ACPI: not all hardware exposes that information to ACPI: for some stuff you have to poll i2c directly, etc.
[13:57] <ubuntu> there are several packages for it
[13:57] <persia> (one could hack the DSDT, but that depends on whether the BIOS can track i2c, etc.)
[13:58] <ubuntu> persia, so either way the virtualization acesses the cpu thrugh 1 kernal
[13:59] <ubuntu> jaypur, all i know is that when i was installing the monitoring packages there is one for older sstems and one for newer and that was  explaied in the package descriptions might want to make sure all that stuff is turned on in bios also if it has the option
[14:00] <jaypur> ubuntu, so i'll go to bios to see it.....
[14:00] <persia> ubuntu: Kinda: the kernel abstracts the HW from userspace, and the virtualisation is running in userspace.  That said, the virtual machine never uses the host kernel *except* by interaction with the virtualisation layer.
[14:00] <jayvee> just so you can get a second opinion
[14:00] <jayvee> I don't perceive any difference between SW and HW virtualisation
[14:01] <persia> This is *very* different from things like LXC, where multiple userspace stacks may be interacting with the same kernel.
[14:01] <ubuntu> gkrell is for desktop jaypur
[14:01] <persia> jayvee: I notice a speed difference for otherwise comparable hardware.
[14:01] <jaypur> ubuntu, i'm using it at my laptop by ssh to see the server
[14:01] <jaypur> :D
[14:02] <jayvee> persia: are you referring to VT-x/AMD-v vs. software VM acceleration?
[14:03] <jayvee> or are you thinking more along the lines of no-kqemu/kvm vs. kqemu/kvm?
[14:03] <jayvee> I was thinking along the lines of the former. I haven't found AMD-v to add any performance personally.
[14:03] <ubuntu> persia, i see so it only slightly uses the kernal as a door but no work is done by it
[14:03] <jayvee> But I very much agree that KVM/kqemu is orders of magnitude faster than raw qemu.
[14:03] <ubuntu> the work all goes to the virtualization kernal
[14:04] <persia> jayvee: Or any of the other silicon-support solutions, yes. :)
[14:04]  * persia found kvm faster than kqemu when kqemu still worked
[14:04] <jayvee> yeah kvm is faster than kqemu
[14:04] <jayvee> but sometimes, for things like DOS, qemu is still faster occasionally
[14:05] <jayvee> whereas KVM grinds to a halt
[14:05] <jayvee> probably bugs more than anything
[14:05] <ubuntu> jaypur, well gkrell isnt designed to acess ssh
[14:06] <jaypur> ubuntu, i usually run nautilus by ssh too...
[14:06] <persia> ubuntu: Computation is done by the kernel running in the VM.  Hardware access by the kernel in the VM is trapped by the virtualisation layer.  The virtualisation layer then accesses host hardware through the host kernel.  How much host hardware is available depends on the configuration of the virtualisation layer (I set mine to only allow access to memory, storage, and cpu cycles, usually)
[14:06] <jaypur> ubuntu, what do you use for temperature monitoring...
[14:06] <jaypur> i connect ssh with -X
[14:07] <jayvee> I use lm-sensors for temperature
[14:07] <jayvee> I find lm-sensors can see some temperatures that don't appear in /proc/acpi/thermal_zone
[14:07] <jaypur> jayvee, how do you see the temperature... what command...
[14:07] <jayvee> but maybe that's my imagination
[14:08] <jayvee> jaypur: apt-get install lm-sensors
[14:08] <jayvee> then just type "sensors" to run it
[14:09] <jayvee> k8temp-pci-00c3
[14:09] <jayvee> Adapter: PCI adapter
[14:09] <jayvee> Core0 Temp:  +36.0°C
[14:09] <jayvee> Core0 Temp:  +28.0°C
[14:09] <jayvee> Core1 Temp:  +29.0°C
[14:09] <ubuntu> so kvm can work without hardware support , but if so what is the difference in the way it operates
[14:09] <jayvee> Core1 Temp:  +35.0°C
[14:09] <jayvee> kvm runs slower
[14:09] <jayvee> if you take my advice, use virtualbox
[14:10] <jayvee> virtualbox is the fastest VM software for GUI applications, and runs fast even without hardware support
[14:10] <persia> ubuntu: If kvm runs without hardware support, it falls back to qemu (or at least it did last time I ran it on a machine with no VMX support).
[14:10] <jaypur> jayvee, i'll try that, just a sec...
[14:10] <ubuntu> jaypur, i lick my finger and tap it and if i hear a sizzle its too hot
[14:10] <jayvee> I was able to meet all my virtualisation needs with virtualbox on my Eee PC
[14:10] <jaypur> ubuntu, hahaha
[14:10] <jayvee> for college
[14:10] <jayvee> it ran plenty fast for a few Ubuntu servers and Windows Server 2003 instance
[14:10] <jayvee> on a 1.6GHz Atom
[14:11] <persia> jayvee: lm-sensors works for *some* sensors (it's especially good at ISA and i2c stuff), but it's not always complete.  For instance the Panasonic "Let's Note" series prior to 5th generation required an additional special bit of software.
[14:12] <jayvee> all I know is that it works for me. :)
[14:13] <ubuntu> jayvee, but im wondering why it runs slower how would it operate any differentle would it process through the kernal instead of offering direct acess of the hardware to the vms kernal?
[14:13] <jayvee> I believe kvm goes into "raw qemu" mode if the kvm module is not loaded
[14:13] <jayvee> and the kvm module only loads if you have the hardware support for VT
[14:15] <ubuntu> jaypur, if you installed lm-sensors already on the server it should work i dont think its going to send it through ssh to a remote x
[14:15] <ubuntu> for gkrell
[14:16] <jaypur> ubuntu, it's all working... but it's not getting the temperature....
[14:16] <jaypur> i'll check now lm sensors i was at the bios...
[14:19] <ubuntu> jayvee, so you are saying rawqemu is slow but virtualbox is almost as fast as kvm with vts on cpu?
[14:19] <jaypur> jayvee, now it's monitoring... i think it was something on bios... dunno...
[14:19] <jaypur> but thanks for the help guys!!!
[14:19] <persia> ubuntu: *ANY* X application can be run as a remote client: it runs on some host, and then exports the interface to the X server on some other host.  The data collected is the data fom the host on which the program is running.
[14:19] <ubuntu> jaypur, well did you change anything in the bios? if not it prob just needed to be started and the reboot started it
[14:21] <jayvee> ubuntu: yes, that's what I'm saying
[14:21] <jayvee> in my experience anyway
[14:21] <jaypur> i just enabled q fan function and set the fan to run faster lol.....
[14:21] <jayvee> virtualbox is not so great for running headless servers
[14:21] <ubuntu> persia, how can the gkrell ap be running on the host if the x is on the client
[14:21] <jaypur> maybe it was about rebooting...
[14:21] <jayvee> but for running desktop apps, there is no comparison
[14:21] <jayvee> virtualbox even supports 3d acceleration
[14:22] <jayvee> I used to play Quake Live on virtualbox before they brought out a Linux version.
[14:22] <persia> ubuntu: X is designed to be network transparent.  It's a client-server model.  The X server runs somewhere with a monitor, keyboard, mouse, etc.  The X client runs anywhere it likes, and tells the X server what to draw.
[14:23] <persia> So if you run an X client on a server, and tell it to talk to the X server on your desktop, it just works.
[14:23] <persia> This enables interesting stuff, like thin clients
[14:24] <ubuntu> persia, for some reason that sounds backwards to me the server is on the desktop but the sever has the client?
[14:24] <jaypur> lol, can i change the text color at ubuntu server?
[14:25] <jaypur> like black screen with green letters....
[14:25] <jaypur> ppl would think i'm running matrix at my bedroom lol
[14:25] <ubuntu> jaypur, well if you are running eveything remotely just change your terminal settings
[14:26] <ubuntu> jaypur, theres a good matrix scrensaver too but for some reason i couldnt find a prepackaged matrix gnome theme
[14:26] <jaypur> ubuntu, no.. not at laptop but at the main server.... but its monitor is always off so... it does not make so much difference....
[14:27] <persia> ubuntu: Yes, the way the client-server model is used in X often confuses folk who believe "server" and "client" describe hardware, rather than services.
[14:27] <jaypur> yeaaah gkrellm is running
[14:27] <jaypur> lol temperature4 = -47C lol
[14:28] <ubuntu> persia, well when running a vnc server the serve serves the services not acesses them
[14:28] <ubuntu> you are saying the xclient acesses the system and sends the info to the remote server
[14:28] <persia> No.
[14:29] <persia> I only said the X client talked to the X server.  local/remote is irrelevant.
[14:29] <persia> So if you run an X server backed by VNC, and then view that somewhere else, you get another layer of indirection,.
[14:30] <ubuntu> uhow thats confusing me
[14:30] <persia> A fanciful use case is someone reading their mail: they sit at host A, connecting to a VNC server on host B.  The VNC server on host B is running an X server.  A mail reader on host C is connected to the VNC-backed X server on host B.  The mailreader then checks an IMAP server, running on host D.
[14:31] <ubuntu> if it were me i would just acess the server through sshd vnc instead of running x on the remote machine
[14:34] <ubuntu> if you set all of your things up like that then its like u are chained to the server
[14:35] <ubuntu> it doesnt seem to provide any extra advantages
[14:35] <ubuntu> exept maybe releaving the server of about 100megs of ram
[14:36] <ubuntu> and provides the big disadvantage of rendering the laptop nearly useless without the server
[14:36] <jaypur> it's all working
[14:36] <jaypur> thanks guys
[14:36] <ubuntu> glad to hear it
[14:37] <ubuntu> dont forget to exesize
[14:37] <jaypur> :D
[14:37] <ubuntu> when u work on servers a lot u need to exersize get a nintendo wii and exaggerate all of the motions
[14:38] <ubuntu> and get one of those as seen on tv pullup bats that just connect to the doorframe without any drilling
[14:38] <ubuntu> *bars
[14:39] <ubuntu> my vimeo video finally processed http://www.vimeo.com/11185731 im starting a tech show add me if u want to
[14:40] <jaypur> ubuntu, lol nintendo wii lol
[14:40] <ubuntu> and if gkrell stops remember just lick your finger and tap
[14:41] <jaypur> :D
[14:41] <jaypur> i set my fan to run at 15/15 speed... the max speed... now my pc is cool...
[14:42] <ubuntu> now  i could see thinclient bieng cost effective if the server was so strong and served all of the services to mids or 100 dollar netbooks but still if you are going to run stuff on the laptop that doesnt work without the server that would only be effetive i your laptop was the beast and your server was the weakling
[14:42] <ubuntu> otherwise there is no poit except to complicate things
[14:44] <ubuntu> i guess for it at a corporation job security
[14:44] <ubuntu> and need to sign on friends to help with the extra complications
[14:44] <persia> No.
[14:44] <persia> A couple common applications:
[14:45] <persia> 1) putting all one's monitors on one computer for massive screen real-estate, and then running lots of CPU-hungry applications on separate dedicated servers whilst using a single desktop.
[14:47] <persia> 2) Having a complex or confusing configuration of an application that's hard to sync between machines, and always wanting to run the same app with the same configuration on one's laptop, one's desktop, and (perhaps) one's phone.
[14:49] <ubuntu> 1 was what i said i would do 2 is a scenario where it would be handy to run xserver on a client but then agai 2 can still be accomplished acessing xserver on server from client
[14:49] <ubuntu> ]
[14:50] <ubuntu> the only change is where the resources are bieng used
[14:50] <persia> Running VNC breaks window management, plus ends up with odd mouse grabs.
[14:50] <persia> But sure, that works too.
[14:50]  * persia does both
[14:51] <ubuntu> how does vnc break window managment
[14:53] <persia> You end up with some windows limited to only one area of the screen.  You end up with different meanings of "minimise" for different applications.  You have to keep track of which host is running each application, etc.
[14:53] <ubuntu> i guess the advantage would be graphic rendering apps like games but then why not just run the game from the sytem u are on
[14:55] <ubuntu> just mount a drive and run the pp from there then
[14:55] <ubuntu> app
[14:56] <ubuntu> say thunderbird
[14:57] <ubuntu> on a ssh in and run it it will pull up in the x and save all data to the server
[14:57] <persia> Mounting a drive doesn't use remote CPU/RAM/etc.
[14:58] <persia> Anyway, I'm not going to argue use cases with you anymore.  That's how X is designed.  Using it is optional.
[14:58] <ubuntu> neither does running the xserver on the client
[14:59] <ubuntu> well thanks for arguing but it has very little advantage besides a little bit of allocating resources
[15:00] <ubuntu> and rendes the client nearly useless in the event a connection is lost
[15:00] <ubuntu> im going to go study virtualbox i guess
[15:00]  * persia fails to say nothing, but settles for no content
[15:01] <ubuntu> yeah thats like codependance syndrome
[15:03] <ubuntu> extra complications to just allocate resources a bit
[15:07] <ubuntu> im going to go take a blast of coffe and then do some pullups and get beefed up
[15:28] <k2s> pls. give a tip how to convert Amazon EBS from ext3 to xfs
[16:12] <kirkland> hggdh: can you get with mathiaz on those config issues on Monday?
[16:42] <bov3n> I need to configure my ubuntu server for mail so that I can use the mail() functionality in php without any troubles
[16:42] <bov3n> should I go for postfix?
[16:42] <ScottK> Postfix is what is generally supported and recommended in Ubuntu server for an MTA.
[16:42] <guntbert> where could I take a look at the 10.04 version of the server guide?
[16:43] <ScottK> sommer: ^^^
[16:44] <bov3n> ScottK: Ok, good. I've installed it and configured the basics. But it has to use smtp do you know how I can edit which smtp server it should use?
[16:44] <ScottK> bov3n: You want it to relay via another mail server?
[16:45] <bov3n> yes
[16:46] <ScottK> sudo dpkg-reconfigure postfix and pick the option that is something like internet with satellite relay
[16:46] <ScottK> It'll ask you the name of the server it should relay through
[16:46] <bov3n> I'm supposed to develop some script for a company in order to send some mails automatically and they couldn't configure their ubuntu server and I'm quite new to it too, but at least I'm comfortable with the commandline :)
[16:46] <bov3n> and they told me that it has to go against a certain smtp server
[16:47] <bov3n> ScottK: ok, I'll try that out
[16:49] <bov3n> thanks
[16:54] <poningru> bov3n, did you get it?
[16:55] <bov3n> not sure yet :)
[16:55] <bov3n> It's configured according to my wishes, I'm coding now to attempt to send a test mail :)
[17:04] <bov3n> poningru, ScottK: it works!
[17:04] <bov3n> thanks a bunch for the help
[17:05] <ScottK> You're welcome.
[17:12] <Dravekx> I have my users setup so they can host websites from their home directories. So, I installed joomla in mine, but when joomla creates a file on the ubuntu server, ubuntu changes the permissions so I can't access the file. then I hafta login via SSH, change the permissions via root, and go back again. Anyone know how to fix this?
[17:19] <Dravekx> earth to ubuntu-server.... come in, ubuntu-server. anyone?
[17:19] <ScottK> !weekend | Dravekx
[17:20] <Dravekx> LOL
[17:20] <Dravekx> "the bot responses" are so nice.
[17:23] <Irunongames> Does anyone know a program to manage a ubuntu server from win 7?
[17:23] <Dravekx> Irunongames, putty and winSCP (it's what I use with Win7)
[17:25] <Irunongames> will putty alow me to view the server envirement?
[17:26] <guntbert> Irunongames: "server environment"?? what do you mean?
[17:27] <Irunongames> So I can see what is on the monitor server side
[17:28] <guntbert> Irunongames: why would you want that?
[17:28] <Irunongames> No good reason really, I just like it better that way :/
[17:30] <Dravekx> It's like trying to force ubuntu to be an unsecure windows. :(
[17:31] <guntbert> Irunongames: I believe it will be possible - but as it makes no sense for me I never thought about it -- I'd expect some work to be done and a heavy load .... but I might err
[17:35] <Dravekx> can someone tell me how to fix apache to where, when a web app does something on my ubuntu server, the user:group is set to user:www-data instead of www-data:www-data?
[17:35] <Dravekx> or maybe its server related?
[17:35] <Dravekx> idk.
[17:35]  * Irunongames screams "Litespeed"
[17:39] <guntbert> Irunongames: ??
[17:41] <Irunongames> It's a "wanna be apache" software :P
[17:42] <morrowyn> lrunongames: webmin ?
[17:42] <guntbert> !webmin | morrowyn, Irunongames
[17:42] <morrowyn> :)
[17:42] <Irunongames> Oh ok, thanks
[17:44] <morrowyn> Dravekx, www-data:www-date means user:group
[17:45] <morrowyn> date/data
[18:14] <Eric^-> hey
[18:14] <Eric^-> I downloaded the server and it's a ISO file. But how do f- do i get it on a disc so i can install it on my other comp?
[18:15] <RoyK> huh?
[18:15] <Eric^-> yeah, i got a mac computer
[18:15] <RoyK> iso files are for burning on small discs
[18:15] <Eric^-> aw, k lol.
[18:15] <RoyK> open disk utility, burn it
[18:15] <Eric^-> i've tried
[18:15] <Eric^-> dosen't work wtf
[18:16] <RoyK> works for me (tm)
[18:16] <RoyK> Eric^-: after burning it, you need to move the CD to the other computer and boot it
[18:18] <Eric^-> oh shit i think i know what now.
[18:18] <Eric^-> I got a dvd-r disc lol.
[18:19] <Eric^-> How can i make it on USB then ? x.x
[18:22] <RoyK> that's a bit complicated, but from ubuntu desktop, it's automated
[18:22] <RoyK> install a VM with VirtualBox or something on your mac and you'll have it done quite easily
[18:23] <Irunongames> Question: should I "Manage System With Landscape" OR "auto security Update"
[18:25] <Irunongames> What type of server do I need for a IRC bot?
[18:25] <RoyK> Irunongames: manage system with landscape if you use it, which you probably don't since you ask. auto security update is nice
[18:25] <guntbert> Irunongames: if I understood that correctly the landscape option costs real money
[18:25] <RoyK> Irunongames: anything - even DOS will do
[18:26] <RoyK> guntbert: yeah, nominally $150 a year per box, but it's worth it in large setups
[18:26] <Irunongames> blah does anyone here run a IRC bot from ubuntu?
[18:26]  * RoyK has a few
[18:26] <guntbert> RoyK: thx
[18:27] <RoyK> Irunongames: seriously, you can run an irc bot on any OS
[18:27] <Irunongames> Blah, ok
[18:27] <RoyK> ubuntu might be a good choice if you like it
[18:27]  * Irunongames is scared of using to much space even with a 1.5 TB drive XD
[18:27]  * RoyK takes a little time off to ROTFL
[18:28] <RoyK> Irunongames: I'm working with embedded systems these days, large, embedded systems with ARM 400MHz CPUs and 64MB memory and 128MB flash disks
[18:28] <RoyK> huge systems
[18:28] <Irunongames> o.o
[18:28] <RoyK> and you can run a few thousand IRC bots on each of them
[18:29]  * Irunongames goes to build a few thousand
[18:33] <wise_crypt> !ebox
[18:43] <hggdh> kirkland: I will. I looked for him yesterday, but I guess it was already too late in the evening
[18:48] <ShadowTale> Hi all. I'm at the "postfix configuration" section of installing ubuntu, what should I do "no configuration, internet site, internet with smarthost, satellite system, local only"?
[18:48] <ShadowTale> I've never installed a server before
[18:49] <ShadowTale> hello?
[18:49] <guntbert> ShadowTale: do you need email on that machine?
[18:50] <ShadowTale> not particularly, I'm only going to use it to post on my IRC channel whenever someone edits on my wiki
[18:51] <ShadowTale> thanks for your time and effort by the way guntbert :)
[18:51] <kirkland> hggdh: ack
[18:51] <ShadowTale> I'm a bit of a noob when it comes ot this kinda thing.
[18:51] <kirkland> hggdh: can you please create a junk branch of test results from your various runs and commit/push your results there?
[18:52] <kirkland> hggdh: make a dir structure like lucid/rc/*
[18:52] <kirkland> hggdh: maybe lucid/rc/topo1/*
[18:52] <kirkland> hggdh: you can gzip/bzip em
[18:52] <guntbert> ShadowTale: in that case I suggest you choose "no config"  -- misconfigured mail servers are *bad*
[18:52] <kirkland> hggdh: we really need to keep an archive of these
[18:53] <guntbert> ShadowTale: and on ubuntu a not configured service will not be started
[18:54] <ShadowTale> cool. thanks much for the info, mind if i keep popping in and out of chat asking noob questions? lol
[18:54] <ScottK> kirkland: screenbin is accepted.
[18:57] <guntbert> ShadowTale: there is no such thing as "noob" questions - and be welcome any time :)
[18:58] <scar> yes, we all had to start somewhere ;)
[18:58] <ShadowTale> thanks ^__^. it's still installing, 84%
[19:05] <Eric^-> guys
[19:06] <Eric^-> If i got a computer from 04, will the new ubuntu server edition work on it?
[19:06] <Eric^-> (32 bit i guess right)?
[19:09] <guntbert> Eric^-: I don't see a reason why not
[19:09] <Eric^-> we..
[19:09] <Eric^-> well, i kinda had the 64 bit version downloaded but diden't seem to work..
[19:10] <scar> Eric^-, which cpu does the computer have?
[19:10] <ShadowTale> hmmm, anyone else have a problem with installing the newest ubuntu? my "finishing the installation" is stuck at 25%
[19:10] <ShadowTale> is it supposed to take this long? it's been like 20 minutes.
[19:10] <Eric^-> scar: i don't know really lmao. But it's a dell and it's old.
[19:10] <guntbert> ShadowTale: did you md5sum check the image?
[19:11] <guntbert> !md5sum | ShadowTale
[19:11] <ShadowTale> md5sum? i dunno what that is. I did do a simulated burn before burning it
[19:11] <ShadowTale> oh
[19:11] <ShadowTale> ok i'll read it
[19:12] <scar> Eric^-, what is the model of the dell?
[19:12] <Eric^-> i've got no idea about that neither. Gonna see if i find anything on the shell
[19:13] <scar> Eric^-, that should be on the box itself. also you can look up the service tag on support.dell.com and find the documentation
[19:16] <Eric^-> could it be preceision 360?
[19:16] <Eric^-> uhm, pentium 4 800 mhz
[19:20] <Eric^-> yeah, i need the 32 bit version, dam it takes 22 min to download
[19:26] <skrite> hey all, i am having a rough time with replication on mysql  our server crashed, rebooted, and recovered, but the slave replication is no longer updating.
[19:41] <fbc-mx> is a type 83 partition an ext3 or ext4?
[19:41] <qman__> it's a "Linux" type
[19:42] <qman__> which could be any number of filesystems, including ext[2-4]
[19:44] <RoyK> xfs, jfs, jffs2, even FAT12 if you like
[19:44] <RoyK> it's just a number
[19:46] <MTecknology> icky... server ran out of space
[19:47] <MTecknology> Can I use libvirt to add a drive to a vm?
[19:49] <ShadowTale> ok it looks like my ubuntu server is up and running. thanks again everybody for the help :)
[19:50] <MTecknology> ShadowTale: what are you going to use it for?
[19:51] <ShadowTale> my friend is hooking me up with a bot that'll message me in IRC chat whenever someone edits on my wiki
[19:51] <ShadowTale> that way I can see what people are doing and possibably stop any vandalism rather quickly.
[19:51] <fbc-mx> qman__, How can I tell which one it is? I have to add it to fstab.
[19:54] <ShadowTale> sound cool MTecknology?
[19:54] <MTecknology> ShadowTale: sounds like something your wiki should be able to do by itself
[19:54] <ShadowTale> Idk, it's a wikia.com wiki
[19:55] <fbc-mx> I have to add a drive to fstab. FDISK tells me its a type 83. So how do I tell if I need to specify it as a EXT3 or EXT4 in fstab?
[19:55] <ShadowTale> I can give you alink if your interested in finding out
[19:55] <MTecknology> never used it - i know moinmoin will let you sbscribe to everything
[19:56] <ShadowTale> "moinmoin"???...
[19:56]  * ShadowTale googles it
[19:56] <RoyK> fbc-mx: you need to specify the filesystem type in fstab - man fstab
[19:57] <fbc-mx> RoyK, I formatted that drive like a year ago.. I don't recall if I formatted it EXT3 or 4. How can I tell?
[19:57] <ShadowTale> so do you have to host moinmoin off of your own server or is it hosted by a website?
[19:57] <RoyK> if you're unsure about the fs type, try to mount /dev/whatever /somewhere and type 'mount' alone to see what it says
[19:58] <MTecknology> or fdisk -l
[19:58] <MTecknology> doesn't that show it?
[19:58] <MTecknology> nope, nevermind
[19:58] <fbc-mx> RoyK,  damn your good... I did that and typed MOUNT and shows it as an EXT4
[19:58] <fbc-mx> RoyK, thanks
[19:59] <RoyK> :)
[20:00] <RoyK> you learn a few tricks after working with linux for 15+ years :)
[20:06] <MTecknology> RoyK: I have ~5 so far :)
[20:06] <fbc-mx> RoyK, I have ~2 years
[20:06] <MTecknology> barely knew computers back then
[20:07]  * RoyK feels like an old man
[20:08] <MTecknology> RoyK: how old are you?
[20:08]  * MTecknology is 22
[20:09]  * fbc-mx 40
[20:10] <RoyK> MTecknology: 36
[20:11]  * fbc-mx got into ubuntu linux 5 years ago and started playing around with linux guts and servers 2 years ago. Evangelizing ubuntu in Guadalajara, Mexico for 3 years now.
[20:11] <RoyK> :)
[20:12] <RoyK> linux is nice, but for firewalls, pfsense rocks
[20:12] <MTecknology> I started in my senior year in high school, i'm in my senior year in college now
[20:13] <MTecknology> RoyK: I'd likely never use anything other than *BSD for a router system
[20:13] <RoyK> linux works well too, though
[20:14] <MTecknology> it does, I just prefer the 'set it, forget it, don't muck with it' approach to something sitting there
[20:14] <RoyK> yeah
[20:14] <RoyK> pfsense is nice in that
[20:14] <andreserl> kirkland: ping
[20:24] <fbc-mx> RoyK, yeah that's what I use for a firewall as well because I got a dual-wan setup
[20:25] <RoyK> nice
[20:26] <fbc-mx> RoyK, I got a PFSENSE machine as a router and an UBUNTU SERVER for EBOX and network services.
[20:27] <RoyK> I'll be setting up an old 500MHz VIA thing for a firewall once I get the CF-card-to-ATA adapter, and I guess it'll be running linux
[20:27] <RoyK> I know iptables by heart and it's nice to have a full distro on the box
[20:27] <fbc-mx> RoyK, I used to swear by IPCOP but it doesn't do dual-wan. But since I've been using pfsense, I've grown kinda fond of it as well.
[20:28] <scar> i have two, identical physical servers. on one i was thinking of installing ubuntu server to use as sort of a hypervisor for several virtual servers. now i want to reduce downtime by mirroring this setup onto the other physical server.  how can i do something like that?
[20:28] <RoyK> fbc-mx: yeah, but I only have this crappy DSL link, so not a problem :)
[20:28] <RoyK> scar: DRBD + heartbeat is a good thing
[20:29] <RoyK> scar: it takes some reading and stuff to get into it, but essensially it's RAID-1 over IP
[20:30] <scar> RoyK, ok.. i thought drbd might be involved. but i was confused because it is classified under clustering, and i thought that was combining multiple servers into one virtual server or something...
[20:30] <RoyK> not really
[20:30] <RoyK> DRBD for mirroring is just having one standing by
[20:30] <RoyK> mirroring the partitions
[20:30] <RoyK> and then having Heartbeat kicking in if the main box fails
[20:31] <MTecknology> How can I see what devices are available?
[20:31] <MTecknology> /dev/sd*
[20:31] <scar> RoyK, all right cool. thanks... i'll read more about those
[20:31] <RoyK> MTecknology: there'll be a notice in the system log, dmesg
[20:32] <MTecknology> RoyK: It's added during boot, will it still be in there?
[20:32] <RoyK> MTecknology: and all processes trying to do something on that or those devices will hang in D state
[20:32] <RoyK> MTecknology: what sort of device?
[20:33] <MTecknology> RoyK: I'm trying to add a drive to a vm
[20:33] <RoyK> does linux see the drive?
[20:33] <RoyK> as in cat /proc/partitions
[20:35] <MTecknology> RoyK: that'd be the exact answer to my question :D
[20:36] <MTecknology> thanks
[20:38] <MTecknology> mkfs seems to have just freaked out
[20:40] <fbc-mx> RoyK, My only gripe with pfsense is that you cannot manually specify the adapter name in squid. I would like to configure squid to cache my load balancing pool, but it's currently not able to.
[20:41] <RoyK> fbc-mx: for reverse caching, have you tried varnish?
[20:42] <RoyK> it's far better
[20:42] <RoyK> originally developed for fbsd, but ported to other platforms later
[20:42] <RoyK> works best on fbsd last I checked
[20:42] <RoyK> some issues with sendfile() on linux making it impossible to do zero-copy
[20:44] <scar> is there a webdav server available? am i to use python-webdav?
[20:49] <fbc-mx> RoyK, nope, let me read up on it.
[20:51] <MTecknology> mkfs.ext4 /dev/sdb1 | 100G | virtual disk | takes a while....
[20:53] <fbc-mx> RoyK, I'm in the process of adding two indentical sata drive in a raid 1 configuration. WOuld you recommend software raid or the raid controller on the motherboard. I understand the the software raid has processing overhead. Any thoughts?
[20:53] <fbc-mx> * the the= that the
[20:54] <MTecknology> fbc-mx: depends... #1 - does your hardware support a true raid setup?
[20:54] <MTecknology> usually that's not the case - in which case I shoot for software because it gives you more control
[20:55] <MTecknology> if it's true raid, you get better performance letting the disk handle it
[20:55] <scar> it looks like it is just some extensions i add to apache...
[20:55] <fbc-mx> MTecknology, I don't think so, I just have a bios option for my sata controller that says IDE or RAID.
[20:56] <fbc-mx> MTecknology, I was gonna activate the RAID on the motherboard controller thinking that it was hardware based raid. Am I wrong?
[20:58] <MTecknology> fbc-mx: that would be hardware raid but probably isn't the case in reality - true hardware raid is usually a pretty penny
[20:58] <MTecknology> fbc-mx: if that's the case then my personal choice would be to use software to manage it
[20:58] <fbc-mx> MTecknology, ok, you've convinced me to go with software raid.
[20:59] <MTecknology> fbc-mx: well....
[20:59] <MTecknology> fbc-mx: do you want control or performance
[20:59] <MTecknology> either way you get mirrored drives
[20:59] <fbc-mx> MTecknology, Hmm... I guess control would be my guess
[20:59] <MTecknology> then software
[21:00] <Irunongames> how do I install vmware tools on ubuntu server?
[21:00] <fbc-mx> MTecknology, now that has been decided, the only guide I can fine give you the instuctions to do it at the install phase. Is there one for a server that is already setup?
[21:00] <MTecknology> Irunongames: what cersion?
[21:01] <MTecknology> fbc-mx: mdadmin iirc
[21:01] <MTecknology> mdadm*
[21:01] <fbc-mx> MTecknology, K, let me go give it a whirl.
[21:01] <Irunongames> I am running 6.5
[21:02] <MTecknology> 6.5?
[21:02] <MTecknology> you mean vmware server 6.5?
[21:02] <MTecknology> What version of Ubuntu
[21:02] <MTecknology> iirc vmware only supports the last LTS
[21:02] <Irunongames> 9.10
[21:03] <Irunongames> and 6.5 workstation
[21:03] <MTecknology> You're not likely to make it work right
[21:03] <MTecknology> check out #vmware
[21:04] <Irunongames> thanks
[21:04] <RoyK> fbc-mx: software raid has little overhead, but it's a bitch for linux boot
[21:04] <RoyK> grub isn't too happy about that
[21:04] <RoyK> for data volumes, I'd use software raid
[21:04] <RoyK> it's faster and cheaper
[21:05] <MTecknology> also saves on you if the controller dies in that you don't need to get an exact replacement
[21:06] <RoyK> if you need to boot off a raid, I'd recommend 3ware or areca
[21:06] <RoyK> reasonably priced and works well
[21:13] <MTecknology> I hate it when an rsync failure can't resume :'(
[21:14] <MTecknology> If I was local it would take <10min to copy
[21:14] <MTecknology> the rsync failed because of lost space; i had to run off - it was <10MB from being transferred - now I get to start all over remotely and it's estimated to take >6hr
[21:15] <fbc-mx> MTecknology, I type sudo apt-get install mdadm and it wants to install postfix. Any idea why?
[21:15] <MTecknology> fbc-mx: not sure, maybe for notification of issues
[21:16] <MTecknology> It's been a long time since i used raid - i tend to shy toward lvm now
[21:19] <skrite> hey all, i am having trouble starting a slave in mysql after the master had a problem that caused a reboot. The error log on the slave is empty
[21:21] <ShadowTale> hi all. whats it mean when I type "    hg clone http://core.gozerbot.org/hg/dev/0.9" and i get the response, "the program 'hg' is currently not installed.  you can install it by typing: sudo apt-get install mercurial"?
[21:23] <ShadowTale> then when i tpye "sudo apt-get install mercurial" it responds "Package mercurial is not available, but is referred to by another package. This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, or is only available from another source E: package mercurial has no installation candidate
[21:23] <ShadowTale> >.< i've never used ubuntu server before so I dunno what to do.
[21:26] <JanC> ShadowTale: try "sudo apt-get update" first, then the "sudo apt-get install mercurial" again ?
[21:27] <ShadowTale> ok i got a whole ton of "Err http
[21:27] <ShadowTale> err. 1 sec lemme type this
[21:27] <guntbert> !pastebin | ShadowTale
[21:27] <JanC> do you have a working internet connection on that machine?
[21:28] <ShadowTale> It's hard lined into the router. plus before I installed ubuntu the wireless internet was working on windows vista
[21:28] <ShadowTale> is there a command like "ipconfig" were i can see if i'm connected to the internet?
[21:28] <JanC> you only have wireless on the machine?
[21:29] <ShadowTale> I have wireless and I'm hooked into the internet with a ethernet cable
[21:29] <guntbert> ShadowTale: type ip ad   -- should give you a list of interfaces and addresses
[21:30] <JanC> or just try "ping www.ubuntu.com"  ;)
[21:30] <JanC> hm...
[21:31] <ShadowTale> hi, my firefox crashed
[21:31] <ShadowTale> I didn't get a chance to read a response. i had said i'm hooked up to the internet via Ethernet cable
[21:31] <guntbert> JanC: no - there remain too many possibilities when that ping fails
[21:31] <guntbert> ShadowTale: type ip ad   -- should give you a list of interfaces and addresses
[21:32] <ShadowTale> ok it looks like 00:00:00:... and so on
[21:33] <ShadowTale> "lo: <loopback,up,lower_up> mtu blah blah blah
[21:33] <ShadowTale> eth0: <brodcast,multicast> mtu 1500 gdisc noop state down glen 1000
[21:33] <ShadowTale> so I think your right i'm not connected to the internet
[21:34] <guntbert> ShadowTale: here that part is wlan0: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 1500 qdisc pfifo_fast state UP qlen 1000 ----    link/ether 00:19:d2:0a:d2:a1 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff ---    inet 192.168.0.11/24 brd 192.168.0.255 scope global wlan0
[21:35] <fbc-mx> MTecknology, I created two identical primary particions on my identical sata drives then ran "mdadm --create /dev/md0 --level=1 --raid-devices=2 /dev/sdc1 /dev/sdd1" but when I do a fdisk -l is says no particions found. What am I doing wrong?
[21:35] <ShadowTale> i don't have that part displaying
[21:35] <guntbert> ShadowTale: for wlan in my case
[21:35] <ShadowTale> i have lo: eth0: and virbr0:
[21:36] <MTecknology> fbc-mx: fdisk -l /dev/md0 ?
[21:36] <guntbert> ShadowTale: and my (not connected) eth0 looks like: eth0: <NO-CARRIER,BROADCAST,MULTICAST,UP> mtu 1500 qdisc pfifo_fast state DOWN qlen 1000
[21:36] <guntbert>     link/ether 00:15:58:80:10:d1 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
[21:36] <fbc-mx> MTecknology, Disk /dev/md0 doesn't contain a valid partition table
[21:37] <MTecknology> fbc-mx: do without -l; probably just need to create it
[21:37] <fbc-mx> MTecknology, do I need to remove the two identical primary particions that I previously created?
[21:38] <ShadowTale> argh gotta wait for my little brother to get home. he apartently put some thing on our router that won't allow computers to hook up unless they're gateway or whatever is typed into our router manually.
[21:38] <MTecknology> ooh.. wait.... can you use partitions for a raid device?
[21:38] <ShadowTale> -_- gotta wait half an hour
[21:38] <fbc-mx> MTecknology,  dunno...
[21:39] <MTecknology> fbc-mx: I think you might need to use the whole drive - I'm not sure..
[21:39] <fbc-mx> ok, then I will delete the existing partitions on the drives before creating one through /dev/md0
[21:52] <micw> hi
[21:52] <micw> i tried to setup a simple apache virtual host config. on other distros that worked fine: NameVirtualHost *:80 ... <VirtualHost *:80> ...
[21:52] <micw> i always get an error: VirtualHost *:80 -- mixing * ports and non-* ports with a NameVirtualHost address is not supported, proceeding with undefined results
[21:53] <micw> any help what could be wrong?
[21:54] <RoyK> see what NameVirtualHost is set to and use the excat name in VirtualHost
[21:55] <RoyK> VirtualHost 80:* and <VirtualHost *:80>
[21:55] <RoyK> et cetera
[21:56] <micw> the problem was the 000-defaults within sites-enabled
[21:57] <micw> there was virtualHost *
[21:58] <micw> when coming from a different distro (like gentoo in my case) ubuntu feels very wired...
[21:58] <RoyK> iirc the default site includes NameVirtualHost
[21:58] <RoyK> so either remove that and place it somewhere else or obay the roles set there :)
[21:59] <micw> yes. but the ports.conf says listen :80 and  (with ssl) listen :443
[21:59] <micw> so namevirtualhost should point to these ports
[21:59] <RoyK> sure, but NameVirtualHost names a string
[22:00] <RoyK> anyway - apache config is something that can be troublesome at times
[22:00] <micw> i removed the default
[22:00] <micw> on gentoo i never had problems iwth that
[22:01] <RoyK> yeah, there are some issues with the "default" config in debian/ubuntu
[22:01] <fbc-mx> MTecknology, OK, I did a mkfs.ext4 /dev/md0 and ended  up with a /dev/mp0p1 so in FSTAB i put "/dev/md0p1       /mnt/250gbr      ext4    defaults     0        2"
[22:01] <fbc-mx> MTecknology, when I tried to mount I get an unknown FS error
[22:02] <RoyK> put /dev/md0 in fstab
[22:02] <RoyK> that's where you put the filesystem
[22:02] <fbc-mx> RoyK, awesome , that worked
[22:03] <RoyK> >(
[22:03] <RoyK> :)
[22:03] <MTecknology> md0p1 is running into unix land :P
[22:04] <micw> i ran into problems with defaults for the bash profile as well when i tried to set up a PS1 for my user's shels
[22:04]  * RoyK pats his Solaris 8 box
[22:04] <micw> the scripts in ubuntu are very wired
[22:04] <MTecknology> i like opensolaris, but it's a little too heavy for my tastes
[22:04] <micw> e.g. any of these scripts changed $PS1
[22:05] <RoyK> MTecknology: 'cept zfs which rocks
[22:05] <micw> so in /etc/profile.d i could change it but at least 2 other scripts changed it otherwise
[22:05] <MTecknology> zfs is full featured - but also heavy
[22:05] <RoyK> it is
[22:06] <RoyK> for a 30TB workload, like we have, we're low on memory with 12GB
[22:06] <RoyK> with dedup, double that a few times
[22:06] <MTecknology> my best server has 8GB
[22:07] <RoyK> supermicro has this cute little 1U box with 4 12-core opterons and 512GB RAM
[22:07] <MTecknology> my probuction servers have 360MB
[22:07] <RoyK> we can probably replace most of our servers with that alone and some storage place
[22:09]  * JanC doesn't want to ask the price of that thing with 512 GiB RAM installed...
[22:09] <RoyK> :D
[22:09] <RoyK> abou EUR 30k
[22:10] <RoyK> but - with 48 cores and 512GB?
[22:10] <RoyK> not a whole lot
[22:10] <JanC> if you use all of it
[22:10] <RoyK> I guess we'll start off at half of that
[22:11] <RoyK> it'll reduce power consumption a wee bit
[22:11] <JanC> I guess it's useful for a huge database server or something
[22:11] <RoyK> compared to 80+ dedicated servers
[22:11] <JanC> or to run *lots* of web traffic mostly from memory
[22:12] <RoyK> varnish is made for that
[22:12] <RoyK> but no, virtualisation
[22:12] <RoyK> lots of VMs instead of lots of dedicated servers
[22:12] <JanC> OTOH, it's more of a SPoF
[22:12] <RoyK> spof?
[22:12] <RoyK> yeah
[22:12] <RoyK> it is
[22:13] <RoyK> but xen has failover
[22:13] <JanC> you'll need at least 2  ;-)
[22:13] <RoyK> yeah
[22:13] <RoyK> but only two 12-core CPUs and just 128 or 256 gigs of memory will help a lot too
[22:13] <JanC> "boss, please hand me some 60k please, I need it tomorrow"  :-P
[22:13] <failover> xen has what ?
[22:14] <RoyK> she has requested a failsafe environment :P
[22:14] <RoyK> failover: with shared storage, xen supports failover iirc
[22:15] <JanC> to some degree I suppose
[22:16] <RoyK> our systems can handle a reboot - they're not needed that much
[22:16] <MTecknology> I'll be developing a high availability system soon enough - I'm thinking 128GB RAM & 2TB HD on two different server - then Xen to keep virt servers on that
[22:16] <fbc-mx> MTecknology, RoyK , when I disconnect my /dev/sdb my /dev/sdc will become sdb and sdd will become sdc. How do I reassemble the raid?
[22:16] <JanC> fbc-mx: using mdadm?
[22:17] <fbc-mx> JanC, ok.. guess I'll figure it out..
[22:17] <JanC> it should do taht automaticly, using a UUID ?
[22:17] <RoyK> fbc-mx: md normally labels the drives
[22:18] <RoyK> meaning no manual stuff needed
[22:18] <fbc-mx> RoyK, That is just too good to be true...I'll try it out though.
[22:19] <RoyK> just reboot and let linux try to sort it out
[22:20] <MTecknology> I love the ability Linux has to 'just sort itself out' as opposed to a certain other system
[22:21]  * RoyK loves ZFS
[22:22] <MTecknology> zfs just kills my view of the osi
[22:22] <RoyK> osi_
[22:22] <RoyK> ?
[22:23] <MTecknology> IMO the FS should be right down abouts level 1; ZFS  goues much higher
[22:23] <MTecknology> s/level/layer/
[22:23] <MTecknology> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSI_model
[22:23] <RoyK> well, sure
[22:23] <RoyK> but I disagree
[22:23] <RoyK> having a filesystem cover everthing from media to dataset is quite awesome
[22:24] <RoyK> if you want deduplication, why not dedup all you have?
[22:24] <JanC> how is dedup implemented in ZFS ?
[22:24] <RoyK> block level
[22:24] <JanC> I hope they are not stupid enough to use only hashes?  ;)
[22:25] <RoyK> md5 iirc, but you can use md5+verify if you're paranoid
[22:25] <RoyK> erm, sha1, not md5
[22:26] <JanC> using only a hash means you will have data loss sooner or later
[22:26] <RoyK> yeah
[22:26] <RoyK> I spoke to someone from nexsan, they only uses hashes, but they use md5 _and_ sha1
[22:27] <RoyK> the chances of a double hit is rather low
[22:27] <JanC> which makes the chance somewhat smaller, but it might still happen tomorrow
[22:27] <JanC> and the day after tomorrow again
[22:27] <RoyK> or in a thousand years
[22:27] <RoyK> the verify flag in osol is safe, though
[22:29] <MTecknology> I have a massive update scheduled for the 1st
[22:29] <MTecknology> a lot of systems going 9.04 to 10.04 - the php-5.3.x change is going to suck
[22:30] <RoyK> why so early? 10.04 isn't even out
[22:30] <MTecknology> it will be
[22:30] <RoyK> wait a month or two and upgrade when it stabilisess
[22:31] <MTecknology> the issue will be the php issues - a lot of code needs to be patched
[22:31] <MTecknology> I've already tested everything else
[22:32] <MTecknology> Then I'm going to try to keep the system up until the next LTS
[22:37] <failover> question, wich system UEC use to create virtual machines?
[22:37] <failover> * to run virtual machines ?
[22:47] <scar> i am setting up some brand new servers... data and settings will be transferred to them, though (web sites, mailing lists, ...).  i was hoping to start with 10.04 but, would it be better to start with 9.10 and then upgrade later? why?
[22:50] <MTecknology> scar: personally... I'd do 10.04 - overcome any issues with it up front and avoid the whole upgrade process
[22:50] <MTecknology> scar: and... 10.04 is an LTS that's being released very soon
[22:50] <MTecknology> 5 days
[22:50] <scar> i do have until about mid-june to deploy everything
[22:51] <MTecknology> If I were doing it, I'd use 10.04.
[22:52] <MTecknology> If you want to be able to copy/paste your old systems - 9.10 (if that's what the old systems are)
[22:53] <scar> hehe i don't know... they are virtual servers on bluehost.com they run some type of GNU/Linux
[22:54] <MTecknology> I don't know much about GNU, but if it's Linux you should be able to easily drag/drop configs - different system means you may need to use a different location - but for most Linux systems things fall pretty much in the expected places
[22:54] <MTecknology> You should figure out what they're using now
[22:57] <MTecknology> if it's ubuntu, lsb_release -a
[22:57] <ShadowTale> is there any for sure way to see if my ubuntu server is getting internet? I have it hooked up to the ethernet cable, I was told "ip al" earlier on this channel. but i really don't know what to look for to see if it is connected
[22:58] <MTecknology> ShadowTale: ping google.com
[22:58] <scar> MTecknology, it doesn't have lsb_release
[22:59] <ShadowTale> it says "ping: unknown host google.com"
[22:59] <MTecknology> scar: ls /etc/*version
[22:59] <MTecknology> scar: what file shows up?
[23:00] <MTecknology> ShadowTale: no internet
[23:00] <MTecknology> ShadowTale: try dhclient eth0
[23:00] <scar> MTecknology, nothing
[23:00] <MTecknology> scar: odd, that means it's likely not redhat, debian, or slackware
[23:00] <MTecknology> scar: cat /etc/issue ?
[23:01] <ShadowTale> "cannot create /var/lib/dhcp3/dhclient.leases: permission denied
[23:01] <scar> MTecknology, no such file or directory
[23:01] <MTecknology> ShadowTale: sudo
[23:01] <ShadowTale> k i'm there
[23:02]  * RoyK takes out his soldering iron http://xkcd.com/730/
[23:02] <MTecknology> scar: ok... what do you see in ls -l /home/ ?
[23:03] <ShadowTale> http://xkcd.com/347/ is my favorite xkcd
[23:03] <ShadowTale> ummm
[23:03] <ShadowTale> i do not see -1/home/
[23:03] <ShadowTale> my install did crash at the final half "setting up passwords" and whatever lol
[23:04] <MTecknology> ShadowTale: hu?
[23:04] <ShadowTale> nvm
[23:04] <MTecknology> ShadowTale: permission denied  17:01 < MTecknology> ShadowTale: sudo
[23:04] <MTecknology> ShadowTale: coupled with previous suggestion?
[23:04] <ShadowTale> -1/home: no such file or directory
[23:04] <scar> MTecknology, it has a link to home4, and in that is our username
[23:04] <ShadowTale> yeah i tried sudo
[23:05] <ShadowTale> nothing in sudo says "home"
[23:05] <MTecknology> ShadowTale: pastebin what you do when you see sudo -s
[23:05] <MTecknology> do<->see
[23:06] <MTecknology> scar: .....
[23:06] <MTecknology> scar: Do you at least have cat /proc/version ?
[23:08] <scar> Linux version 2.6.28-10.21.intel.E1000E.BHsmp (kernel@bluehost.com) (gcc version 4.1.2 20080704 (Red Hat 4.1.2-46)) #1 SMP Tue Mar 23 13:17:07 MDT 2010
[23:08] <MTecknology> hm.. you should have /etc/redhat_version
[23:09] <MTecknology> anyway - now we know what OS you have :P
[23:10] <ShadowTale> http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=XwDBjMTr
[23:11] <scar> MTecknology, some red hat variant?
[23:12] <MTecknology> scar: ya
[23:12] <MTecknology> ShadowTale: man sudo
[23:13] <ShadowTale> cat proc version brings up "Linux version 2.6.310140server (buildd/2crested) (gcc version 4.4.1 (ubuntu 4.4.1-4ubuntu8) ) #48-Ubuntu SMP /fru ict 16 15:07::34 UTC 2009"
[23:13] <ShadowTale> ok "man sudo" brings upo a ton of text
[23:14] <MTecknology> scar: You may as well start with 10.04 - you're going to have the same hurdles wherever you start
[23:15] <scar> acknowledged
[23:15] <MTecknology> scar: the biggest issue will be that 1) redhat keeps software pretty far out of date and 2) the configs will be different
[23:16] <MTecknology> overall - it's all linux - you can make it all work - and you should be able to do so in the time limit you have
[23:16] <scar> i think so too
[23:17] <MTecknology> ShadowTale: how much of it did you read?
[23:17] <ShadowTale> i read the opening discription and a few of the commands that struck my eye
[23:17] <MTecknology> ShadowTale: and do you have your answer yet?
[23:18] <scar> RoyK, erm... what does that do?
[23:18] <ShadowTale> not really. I have no idea why/if i'm not getting internet.
[23:18] <MTecknology> ShadowTale: http://gd.tuwien.ac.at/linuxcommand.org/learning_the_shell.php
[23:18] <ShadowTale> I used to have to program c# in the command line >.<
[23:19] <ShadowTale> so i sorta get the basic idea.
[23:19] <ShadowTale> but not how to do it with linux
[23:19] <ShadowTale> so thanks for that link i'll try reading it
[23:19] <MTecknology> It should get you to a clue of how to run the command I gave you - time to learn ;)
[23:20] <ShadowTale> argh this sucks. i just want a working server right now lol
[23:20] <MTecknology> ShadowTale: you don't want to know how to use it?
[23:20] <ShadowTale> I see why people hire teches
[23:20] <MTecknology> that link covers the absolute basics
[23:20] <Irunongames> I need to download mercurial onto my server but sudo apt-get mercurial does not work
[23:20] <Irunongames> says it can not find the package
[23:21] <MTecknology> Irunongames: "sudo apt-get mercurial" ?
[23:21] <Irunongames> I need to do it to run "hg clone <link>"
[23:21] <MTecknology> Irunongames: "sudo apt-get mercurial" ?
[23:21] <Irunongames> sudo apt-get install
[23:22] <MTecknology> does aptitude search mercurial show it?
[23:22] <Irunongames> idk how to do that
[23:22] <Irunongames> I am new to server
[23:22] <MTecknology> I just told you how
[23:23] <MTecknology> !info mercurial
[23:23] <ShadowTale> hey MTecknology, how do i log in as my _root user?
[23:23] <MTecknology> ShadowTale: man sudo
[23:23] <ShadowTale> thanks
[23:25] <fbc-mx> RoyK, It was too good to be true.. I disconnect /dev/sdb and reboot and /dev/md0 has nothing in it.
[23:25] <ShadowTale> how do i get out of all this text in "man sudo" i can't seem to get out of this read me file thing
[23:26] <MTecknology> q
[23:26] <ShadowTale> thanks
[23:29] <MTecknology> ShadowTale: you figure out how to run dhclient yet?
[23:30] <ShadowTale> uh.........
[23:30] <ShadowTale> "permission denied"
[23:31] <fbc-mx> MTecknology, I disconnect /dev/sdb and reboot and /dev/md0 has nothing in it. When I try to recreate the raid it tells me that sdb has an ext2fs file system on it..
[23:31] <ShadowTale> when i type dhclient
[23:32] <jpds> ShadowTale: Try: sudo dhclient
[23:32] <ShadowTale> oh cool a bunch of stuff popped up
[23:32] <MTecknology> jpds: I was trying to guide him into figuring that out - i failed
[23:33] <MTecknology> fbc-mx: I wish I knew how to help you further.. I have very limited experience with mdadm
[23:33] <ShadowTale> ultimately though it says "chown: failed to get attributes of '/etc/resolv.conf' : No such file or directory
[23:33] <ShadowTale> "*reloading /etc/samba/smb.comf cmbd only"
[23:33] <fbc-mx> MTecknology,  k thanks. I'll try to figure it out..
[23:34] <ShadowTale> MTecknology:  this is awesome that you take out of your time to help people out like this.
[23:34] <MTecknology> JanC: You around to try to help fbc-mx?
[23:34] <MTecknology> ShadowTale: many ubuntu users do it
[23:34] <ShadowTale> holy crap it's doing something
[23:34] <ShadowTale> I think i might be connected
[23:35] <MTecknology> ShadowTale: now ping
[23:35] <ShadowTale> "sudo apt-get install" it's downlioading stuff i think
[23:35] <MTecknology> or that
[23:35] <ShadowTale> w00t! i'm getting pings!
[23:35] <ShadowTale> 37.6 ms
[23:35] <ShadowTale> 35ms
[23:35] <ShadowTale> 40ms
[23:35] <MTecknology> stop
[23:35] <ShadowTale> sorry to spam that lol
[23:35] <ShadowTale> how do i stop the pinging?
[23:36]  * MTecknology is getting VERY tired of the spam on TV
[23:36] <ShadowTale> q?
[23:36] <jpds> ShadowTale: Ctrl-C
[23:36] <MTecknology> weather warnings make me want to stop having cable
[23:37] <ShadowTale> sweet it's downloading mercurial now
[23:40] <ShadowTale> THANKS!!! i'll be on later.
[23:41] <fbc-mx> MTecknology, I think I figured it out... it changed the name of the block device only. It's no longer /dev/md0 now its /dev/md_d0
[23:42] <MTecknology> fbc-mx: interesting.. glad you figured it out :)
[23:43] <MTecknology> fbc-mx: oh - as RoyK mentioned earlier - cat /proc/partitions
[23:43] <MTecknology> might have helped - I didn't think of it, sorry
[23:49] <fbc-mx> MT nope what ever I figured out didn't really work
[23:49] <fbc-mx> MTecknology,  nope what ever I figured out didn't really work
[23:51] <MTecknology> fbc-mx: what if you recreate the device as /md_d0 ?
[23:52] <MTecknology> fbc-mx: I'm guessing though...
[23:52] <fbc-mx> MTecknology, I'm gonna try the mdadm --reassemble command and see if that helps
[23:52] <MTecknology> good luck
[23:55] <fbc-mx> MTecknology,  No matter what I try I get mdadm: Cannot open /dev/sdc: Device or resource busy
[23:55] <fbc-mx> MTecknology,  nothing is really using  it,, it's not really assigned to anything.
[23:55] <JanC> it's not mounted?
[23:55] <JanC> and it's not being fsck'ed or something?
[23:56] <fbc-mx> JanC, nope
[23:56] <MTecknology> there we go - a smart person to help :)
[23:57] <MTecknology> I'm gonna take a nap now
[23:57] <fbc-mx> JanC, then I tried sudo mdadm --assemble /dev/md0 /dev/sdb /dev/sdc and it tells me it has no SUPERBLOCK
[23:57] <fbc-mx> /dev/sdc has no superblock
[23:57] <JanC> is this an old RAID array, or something you just created ?
[23:57] <fbc-mx> JanC, /dev/sdc has no superblock
[23:58] <fbc-mx> JanC, I just created it and removed /dev/sdb
[23:58] <fbc-mx> JanC, sdb
[23:58] <JanC> eh
[23:58] <fbc-mx> JanC, sdc is now sdb and sdd is now sdc
[23:59] <JanC> you created it as sdc + sdd ?
[23:59] <MTecknology> ya, then he removed sdb
[23:59] <JanC> you sure you got the disk names right?  ☺
[23:59] <fbc-mx> JanC, like this sudo mdadm --create /dev/md0 --level=1 --raid-devices=2 /dev/sdb /dev/sdc
[23:59] <JanC> eh