[00:09] <daskreech> Riddell: Want to be more clear as to the version for Amarok on Lynx?
[00:11] <Riddell> I'm afraid not, konqueror crashes now when I try to edit it :(
[00:12] <daskreech> svn up?
[00:55] <daskreech> Riddell: Any points missing from Kubuntu LTS that you would like to see there?
[04:14] <LaserJock> if I kill virtuoso is it going to do bad things?
[04:20] <LaserJock> ScottK: so I installed kubuntu-netbook
[04:20] <ScottK> LaserJock: I'm guessing virtuoso is not your friend.
[04:20] <LaserJock> ScottK: since I logged in this virtuoso/nepomuk process is taking all my CPU
[04:21] <ScottK> Lovely.
[04:21] <ScottK> I think if you kill it it won't affect much.
[04:21] <ScottK> JontheEchidna is our expert, IIRC.
[04:21] <ScottK> LaserJock: How much RAM does your netbook have?
[04:22] <ScottK> We should have a patch that keeps it from running on systems with 1GB or less.
[04:22] <LaserJock> 1 GB of RAM
[04:23] <LaserJock> so I killed it
[04:23] <ScottK> JontheEchidna: I thought it wasn't supposed to run on 1GB systems?
[04:23] <LaserJock> nepomuk processes are still taking a fair amount, but at least it's no 100%
[04:24] <ScottK> You would think by now upstreams would have learned the lesson that searching is not so cool it gets to steal all the CPU.
[04:24] <LaserJock> especially on first start-up
[04:24] <LaserJock> I was about to start my review with "performance is not so great"
[04:24] <ScottK> Yeah.  I can imagine.
[04:25] <LaserJock> but I've been through this enough to know to check top first ;-)
[04:25] <ScottK> IIRC that running on a 1GB system is a bug.
[04:25] <LaserJock> when I first got my netbook and put UNE on it I was really disappointed
[04:26] <LaserJock> only to realize Gnome-Do was killing it with 100% CPU usage the entire time
[04:26] <ScottK> Nice.
[04:27] <LaserJock> I almost wonder if some sort of "Hmmm, a process seems to be taking a lot of your CPU" notification
[04:27] <LaserJock> would be helpful
[04:27] <daskreech> ScottK: I have 600MB and it runs on my computer
[04:28] <ScottK> daskreech: I think that's not good.
[04:28] <LaserJock> it's sort of like a full hard drive
[04:28] <ScottK> Yeah.
[04:28] <daskreech> And I have near 700 GB of Data
[04:28] <LaserJock> is this only used for strigi?
[04:28] <daskreech> So I just started nepomuk and left it running overnight
[04:28] <ScottK> I'm not sure what an ordinary user would know what to do about it.
[04:28] <daskreech> LaserJock: It's the culmination of strigi
[04:28] <ScottK> LaserJock: No, also for nepomuk (semantic desktop stuff)
[04:29] <LaserJock> is that related by chance to these "open desktop" widgets?
[04:30] <ScottK> No.  It's wired more deeply into the system than that.
[04:30] <LaserJock> k
[04:30] <ScottK> KDE is going full force for sematic desktop (whatver that means).
[04:31] <LaserJock> I just wondered because the "open desktop" and "knowledgebase" widgets didn't seem to work for me
[04:31] <LaserJock> well, I don't know, they didn't do anything so I wondered
[04:31] <ScottK> The knowledgebase one is somewhat flaky to me.
[04:32] <ScottK> We didn't customize that at all, just went with upstream defaults.  If you decide you care about widgets on the desktop you'll change them anyway.
[04:32] <LaserJock> sure, I already did ;-)
[04:32] <LaserJock> there are *so* many widgets these days
[04:32] <ScottK> The twitter/identi.ca one seems to finally work this cycle.
[04:33] <ScottK> There are.
[04:33] <LaserJock> the Remember the Milk one works, very slick looking too
[04:33] <ScottK> Cool.
[04:34] <LaserJock> not sure I'm crazy about scrolling the screen for widgets, but there's not a lot you can do on such a small screen
[04:35] <ScottK> I think it's a decent accomodation to the form factor.
[04:35] <ScottK> One package I really like is akonadi-kde-resource-googledata.
[04:36] <ScottK> With that I get automatic sync between my Google account and local addressbook/calendar data.
[04:36]  * rgreening is installing KNR now on Acer One...
[04:36] <ScottK> Since I also have an Android phone, it works out very nicely.
[04:38] <LaserJock> well, I have to say the interface is better than what I thought from looking at screenshots
[04:38] <ScottK> I guess that's good.
[04:39] <LaserJock> autohiding panel is a bit difficult when dealing with apps with menus
[04:39] <ScottK> When I demo'ed the tech preview at the last UDS a lot of people said they thought it was similar to UNR.
[04:39] <LaserJock> but you get a lot of screen real estate
[04:39] <ScottK> Agreed.
[04:39] <ScottK> It's not ideal, but I think it's a good trade off.
[04:39] <ScottK> Maximizing available screen real estate was a big design focus.
[04:40] <LaserJock> UNE has a persistent panel
[04:40] <LaserJock> but it's a bit small
[04:40] <LaserJock> some similar ideas, different ordering
[04:41] <LaserJock> the launcher is pretty nice, I like that it as a search (missing in UNE)
[04:41] <ScottK> AFAIK they were done fairly independently .
[04:41] <LaserJock> yeah, I imagine
[04:41] <LaserJock> it's interesting to see where independent designs converge
[04:42] <ScottK> Some early prototypes of the KDE U/I were demonstrated at the joint desktop summit in Gran Canaria.
[04:42] <ScottK> I know there were some Canonical Ux people there.
[04:42] <ScottK> So it may not have been completely independent.
[04:43]  * daskreech shrugs. They seem to be pulling best of breed in and forging
[04:43] <ScottK> Plaigarism is the sincerest form of flattery.
[04:43] <daskreech> Fairly certain at some point Ubuntu will be a loose approximation of GNOME
[04:44] <ScottK> It will be interesting to see what happens when Gnome shell lands.
[04:44] <LaserJock> I don't exactly look forward to that :(
[04:45] <ScottK> From what little I understand it, it seems like Canonical is headed in a bit of a different direction.
[04:45] <daskreech> LaserJock: Why not?
[04:45] <LaserJock> I haven't tried it yet, but I hope they don't force usage before it's stable enough
[04:45] <LaserJock> well, because new things generally suck :-)
[04:45] <LaserJock> until things get worked out
[04:46] <ScottK> daskreech: Think KDE 4.0 and wonder why he might be worried.
[04:46] <LaserJock> well, something like that
[04:46] <LaserJock> KDE had 4.0 and is very very well organized
[04:46] <LaserJock> GNOME is much more haphazard
[04:47] <daskreech> ScottK: Gnome SHELL isn't KDE 4.0
[04:47] <daskreech> It's a rough bump into KDE 3.0
[04:48] <ScottK> daskreech: We'll see.  It seems to have some similar concepts to what plasma had for 4.0 behind it.
[04:48] <daskreech> They aren't rewriting anything they are adding a new option that will phase out the still maintained new one
[04:48] <ScottK> Right, so not so hard a transition.
[04:49] <LaserJock> well
[04:49] <daskreech> Gnome 3.0 is for most intents and purposes a pushpin in the timeline that arbitrarily says Look this is a new version
[04:49] <daskreech> If they didn't do Gnome Shell there would be no other real visible changes to Gnome
[04:49] <ScottK> Sure.
[04:49] <LaserJock> I'm worried that it will be harder a transition than people are letting on and it will not be independent (so it'll ripple through the desktop)
[04:50] <daskreech> LaserJock: I'm not sure what you think will happen but it won't destroy anything
[04:50] <ScottK> I don't understand Canonical's strategy for it.  At least from what I've seen (not that I look really hard) they are pressing on with their own vision and not worrying about it.
[04:51] <LaserJock> I think it'll very likely suck developer time/energy away from other things that are maybe more needed
[04:51] <ScottK> So I think concern that where Ubuntu is going will end up cross threaded with where upstream Gnome is going is not unreasonable.
[04:51] <LaserJock> and then it won't really add much of anything
[04:51] <daskreech> ScottK: Canonical will soon be it's own software stack I'm sure
[04:51] <ScottK> daskreech: Maybe that's the plan.
[04:52] <daskreech> They have already started saying things like if you would like the Ubuntu users to enjoy your application now would be the time to make patches
[04:52] <daskreech> ScottK: they aren't quite that dumb but they are that stubborn
[04:53] <daskreech> There is huge value to networking and community effects.
[04:54] <daskreech> It's how they pulled from Debian and made an Ubuntu experience
[04:55] <daskreech> No possible way that the plan is to sever that with the rest of the Linux world. But if they divine that this is a valuable path they are going to chase it and promote others follow by including the changes they make
[04:55] <ScottK> I'm curious how this no systray thing will go.
[04:55] <daskreech> I'm sure they are too
[04:55] <ScottK> My favorite being the one that was sure it wouldn't be a problem to expect Skype to accomodate it.
[04:56] <daskreech> I'm just glad that it can be done. I can't fathom trying to do this kind of thing in Microsoft and getting it to ship in WIndows
[04:56] <ScottK> Agreed.
[04:57] <LaserJock> I find it also interesting to see how "we are our own upstream" works out
[04:58] <ScottK> Yeah.
[04:58] <daskreech> I like the merging of Gnome Apple an Windows 7 in having persistency of applications and actions even if they are not running
[04:58] <daskreech> Some good stuff happening
[04:58] <ScottK> So far I think they have a mix of good ideas and bad ones.
[04:59] <LaserJock> as long as things can "shake out" and don't get stuck in "we have to keep this just because"
[04:59] <ScottK> LaserJock: I haven't seen a lot of openness to revisit previous decisions so far.
[04:59] <LaserJock> not particularly no
[05:00] <LaserJock> not on the design level
[05:00] <ScottK> I am still completely boggled at the notion that if I click on a notification it's bad if something useful happens.
[05:00] <daskreech> LaserJock: So far I can't think of an Idea they have vocally dropped but then I don't know if that's because they have a stubborn we must stick to it agenda or what they have done so far has been good
[05:00] <daskreech>  I know that people in general who are getting the end release distro seem to be pretty accepting of whatever comes
[05:00] <LaserJock> ScottK: I get it in practice. it means I don't have to freak out if I miss a notification
[05:01] <ScottK> LaserJock: That's exactly how they have it wrong.
[05:01] <ScottK> They solved the wrong problem.
[05:01] <LaserJock> well, they solved part of the problem, IMO
[05:01] <ScottK> The problem isn't having actions, the problem is having actions be the only way to do something.
[05:01] <daskreech> LaserJock: I've had two different experiences with that. Either I find notifications very very distracting or I stop looking at them altogether which after an hour makes me wonder why they are there
[05:02] <LaserJock> I don't have a problem not click on notifications
[05:02] <LaserJock> it does seem a bit too difficult to deal with actions though
[05:02] <ScottK> LaserJock: An example: with my Quassel IRC, I get a notification when I get highlighted.  If I click on it, I get taken to that channel.  If I miss it and still want to respond, I click on the systray icon and I still go to the channel.
[05:03] <LaserJock> right
[05:03] <ScottK> I think the design goal of the user not being rushed is very good.
[05:03] <LaserJock> I go straight to the window either way
[05:04] <ScottK> I think that they drew a poor implementation to reach that goal and then insisted it was the goal.
[05:04] <LaserJock> there is still a sense of having different modes (go straight to window or go to messaging menu)
[05:04] <LaserJock> hmm
[05:04] <daskreech> LaserJock: Aslo Empathy is broken
[05:04] <LaserJock> I actually like that notifications aren't actions
[05:04] <ScottK> I have the KDE version of the messaging menu (it's still an indicator) and I also like it.
[05:05] <LaserJock> but I didn't find notifications that were actionable very annoying in the first place
[05:05] <ScottK> I think it's great when I've been away from my computer and come back to a bunch of highligets.
[05:05] <ScottK> So I want a complete list.
[05:05] <LaserJock> I have more problems with having the notification menu disconnected from the app
[05:06] <ScottK> For reacting real time when I'm at the computer though I think it's far inferior to just clicking on the notification or the icon.
[05:06] <LaserJock> so if I go straight to the apps window, it doesn't clear the notifications necessarily
[05:06] <LaserJock> I just go to the app though
[05:06] <ScottK> The KDE one does that sometimes, but it usually works out.
[05:06] <LaserJock> it's a click either way
[05:07] <LaserJock> either click on the notification or click on the app
[05:07] <ScottK> Yes, although going via the menu can take you to the right spot in the app.
[05:07] <LaserJock> right, but that's why you can minimize to systray anymore
[05:07] <LaserJock> you always have the apps there (for better or worse)
[05:07] <ScottK> I really like the fact that in Quassel the icon/notification takes me to the right channel.
[05:07] <verbalshadow> i like the message indicator, mostly because it gets rid so about 4 different icons in the systray
[05:08] <ScottK> It didn't get rid of any yet for me.
[05:08] <ScottK> I get enough out of the Quasel and Kmail icons that I prefer to have them around still.
[05:08] <LaserJock> so far for me it's a net loss in total
[05:08] <verbalshadow> just need a plugin in for choqok
[05:08] <ScottK> I don't IM, so that doesn't enter into it.
[05:09] <LaserJock> I have 3 icons (gwibber, evolution, and empathy) rolled into one, but I have 2 new  ones for the session that are wide
[05:09] <LaserJock> what bugs me the most is that there are no preferences, no options
[05:10] <ScottK> The fact that I can control which icons I see and don't see on an icon by icon basis now in KDE made the most difference for me on the systray
[05:10] <ScottK> LaserJock: I told you before you want to be a KDE user.
[05:10] <ScottK> Then you can have preferences.
[05:11] <verbalshadow> :)
[05:11] <maco> i have the message indicator plasmoid but its useless to me as it just shows all 100-or-so of my kmail folders *all the time*
[05:11] <maco> LaserJock: come on jordan, come to the darkside. kubotu will give you cookies ;-)
[05:11] <LaserJock> ScottK: I want preferences, not every possible combination and permutation of possible configurations ;-)
[05:12] <ScottK> LaserJock: KDE has started to realize that an infinitude of preferences is not idea.
[05:12] <maco> yeah kde4 is actually usable, unlike kde3
[05:12]  * maco runs
[05:13] <ScottK> But just on the topic of system tray, I could easily run without one if I wanted to and I can decide on an icon by icon basis if they should be shown, hidden, or left to the app to decide.
[05:13] <LaserJock> you know, I just started to like KDE when KDE3 was killed off
[05:13] <ScottK> So it's very easy to get exactly what I want.
[05:14] <ScottK> The stuff that was annoying me about taking up too much space is now pretty well resolved.
[05:15] <ScottK> BTW, I totally agree about Chromium.  I'm liking it a lot.
[05:15] <ScottK> I'm a little worried about using a browser that's in Universe.  I need to look into how it's going to be kept up.
[05:15] <LaserJock> perhaps
[05:16] <LaserJock> it's long been more stable than Firefox ever was for me
[05:16] <ScottK> It's not stability I'm worried about, it's security.
[05:16] <LaserJock> I'm really surprised that a browser this good could be this good so fast
[05:16] <ScottK> AFAIK there are no really secure web browsers.
[05:16] <LaserJock> it's almost an oxymoron
[05:17] <maco> i have choqok, quassel, and skype set to "auto" yet all three stay in the tray full time  when running :-/
[05:17] <ScottK> At the last UDS, shtylman was asking everyone "Have you tried Chromium".
[05:18] <ScottK> maco: The app needs to be designed to do something with the auto setting.
[05:18] <maco> i see
[05:18] <ScottK> Witness the device notifier will hide itself if it didn't detect stuff now.
[05:18] <maco> right
[05:18] <ScottK> It used to be both not in the tray and always present.
[05:18] <ScottK> Took up a huge amount of space.
[05:19] <ScottK> It would be nice of Akregator would autohide when there were no unread posts.
[05:23] <LaserJock> is the ordering of elements in the panel come from upstream?
[05:23] <LaserJock> s/is/does/
[05:24] <ScottK> Except we added the lock/logout widgets
[05:24] <ScottK> Panel configurability is not on par at all with plasma desktop yet.
[05:27] <LaserJock> it's a bit weird having the window control all the way on the right
[05:27] <ScottK> Agreed.
[05:27] <LaserJock> I'm used to having it next to the launcher area (center of panel)
[05:28] <LaserJock> on the other hand, the X is in the top right corner where you'd expect :-)
[05:28] <ScottK> They put it on the left initially, but concluded it should go on the right so the X to close windows would be where people expect it.
[05:28] <ScottK> Yes, exaclyt.
[05:28] <ScottK> Rather ironic given Ubuntu's configuration now.
[05:28]  * maco giggles
[05:28] <LaserJock> in UNE it seems more like a tab
[05:29] <LaserJock> so the X is on the right side of the tab
[05:29] <maco> like in firefox?
[05:29] <LaserJock> yeah
[05:29] <LaserJock> so it doesn't feel like a window decoration context, IMO
[05:29] <LaserJock> it feels more like closing tabs
[05:30] <maco> firefox switched from a single close button to one-per-tab after eye tracking testing showed that people would look at that button, pause, then dismiss it and keep looking for a way to close the tab
[05:31] <LaserJock> yeah
[05:32] <LaserJock> so I like in UNE I have, from  left to right, 1) the place I start apps 2) the place where apps live 3)  the title of current app 4)X to close that app
[05:33] <LaserJock> for Kubuntu netbook 1 is on the opposite side of the window as 3 & 4 and 2 is hidden in 3
[05:33] <daskreech> LaserJock: Chrome was built by Google buying nearly all the Mozilla dev heads. So the stuff they had planned for Firefox they just did it 2-3 years earlier since they didn't have to work around Cruft
[05:34] <LaserJock> daskreech: ah, that make sense
[05:34] <daskreech> ScottK: +1 on akregator
[05:35] <ScottK> daskreech: It might be worth filing a wish on b.k.o if there isn't one.
[05:36] <LaserJock> how has the bug forwarding thing worked out?
[05:36] <ScottK> JontheEchidna is probably the one with the best view on that.
[05:37] <ScottK> I know that for me filing tracebacks upstream has resulted in a lot more of my crashes getting fixed than filing them on Launchpad ever did.
[05:38] <daskreech> ScottK: Shall I?
[05:38] <ScottK> daskreech: Yes.  Please.
[05:38] <daskreech> ScottK: Ok I'll drop it on my To-do
[05:41] <ScottK> Thanks.
[10:05] <jussi> ScottK: hei! Any idea when those backports will be done?
[10:32] <Quintasan> hello
[11:25] <larsivi> you gents know if a nepomukfilewatch memory leak has been reported?
[13:24] <JontheEchidna> ScottK: Strigi will not start on 1 GB if machines, but only if it's the first start of nepomuk ever. (So on the live cd, and then on the first login)
[13:25] <JontheEchidna> I couldn't think of a way to make it happen for existing installs without destroying user config
[13:26] <JontheEchidna> or destroying freedom to choose whether or not they wanted strigi on their 1GB or less machines
[13:30] <JontheEchidna> (People did complain when a bug accidentally caused the patch to always disable strigi on 1GB systems, period)
[13:58] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: http://kde-look.org/content/show.php/Kubuntu+Lucid?content=123354
[13:58] <Quintasan> why we are not using it >_<
[13:58] <Quintasan> :P
[14:07] <JontheEchidna> Quintasan: there is the part about us being in every freeze ever when it was released ;P
[14:07] <Quintasan> who cares
[14:07] <Quintasan> :P
[14:07] <Quintasan> it looks awesome
[14:07] <Quintasan> goes with our plymouth theme
[14:08] <Quintasan> well, I think it's time to start reading some Qt development books
[14:11] <Quintasan> I still don't get why we want KPackageKit, I think Shaman2 could be ready
[14:11] <Quintasan> for Maveric ofc
[14:12] <JontheEchidna> KPackageKit is, at the least, certain to work. (Even if a bit suboptimally)
[14:12] <JontheEchidna> Shaman2 on the other hand doesn't have a backend that can install stuff on a debian system aside from Packagekit
[14:12] <JontheEchidna> Going to shaman2 is making the same mistake that going to KPackagekit was
[14:13] <Quintasan> well, it has, but I will need to poke the guy to get to work or even try helping him (lol no knowledge of C++)
[14:13] <JontheEchidna> e.g. the jump to the new, shiny tech that promises to be the Ultimate Solution (tm)
[14:13] <JontheEchidna> Quintasan: I'm working on a shaman backend, as it happens :)
[14:14] <JontheEchidna> http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/playground/sysadmin/shaman/libshaman/backends/qapt/ <- requires playground/libs/libqapt otherwise you'll get the other/old apt backend
[14:15] <JontheEchidna> Currently it's read-only, with the exception that you can check for updates
[14:15] <Quintasan> awesome
[14:15] <Quintasan> I thought we'd like packagekit backend better
[14:15] <Quintasan> I have submitted a patch some time ago
[14:15] <JontheEchidna> well, PackageKit is most of the reason KPackageKit sucks :P
[14:16] <Quintasan> agreed
[14:16] <JontheEchidna> we'd just be trading one face of fail for another
[14:16] <Quintasan> anyways I can help?
[14:17] <JontheEchidna> Quintasan: Know anything about the libapt-pkg library?
[14:17] <JontheEchidna> As it stands, if I can get support for installing/removing packages in libqapt, it'd be a fairly complete library
[14:18] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: not really but if it is not really complicated I think I could try to play around with it
[14:18]  * JontheEchidna giggles a little
[14:18] <JontheEchidna> the api is horrible
[14:22] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: let me get it stright, libqapt uses libapt-pkg libs?
[14:22] <Quintasan> and libqapt is used by shaman?
[14:22] <JontheEchidna> Quintasan: libqapt is a Qt wrapper over the ugly libapt-pkg api
[14:22] <JontheEchidna> which is then used to implement the shaman backend
[14:22] <Quintasan> oh
[14:22] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: are there any docs for libapt-pkg?
[14:23] <JontheEchidna> mwahaha
[14:23] <JontheEchidna> if you're lucky, some of the libapt-pkg headers may have a bit of docs in the class headers
[14:23] <Quintasan> oh crap
[14:23] <Quintasan> @_@
[14:24] <JontheEchidna> That's the beauty of libqapt. It does all the ugly stuffs, giving you a nice, sane, documented api
[14:24] <JontheEchidna> and it's not limited to shaman. You could conceivably make a standalone package manager with it
[14:24] <Quintasan> libapt-pkg-doc
[14:24] <Quintasan> ?
[14:25] <JontheEchidna> ^Eh, mostly design stuff
[14:25] <JontheEchidna> "How we can make this library suck the most"
[14:26] <JontheEchidna> I've been looking at other things that use libapt-pkg such as synaptic, apt-get and the aptcc packagekit backend for examples
[14:26] <Quintasan> and it sucks?
[14:26] <JontheEchidna> libapt-pkg? No doubt. The libarary was grown, not designed
[14:27] <JontheEchidna> oh, libept is another libapt-pkg wrapper, but not object-oriented enough for my tastes
[14:27] <JontheEchidna> good example though
[14:31] <Quintasan> @_@
[14:31] <Quintasan> really
[14:31] <Quintasan> wtf
[14:32] <Quintasan> d(new BackendPrivate)
[14:32] <JontheEchidna> that's common practice
[14:32] <JontheEchidna> that way you can add/remove new private members later without breaking binary compat
[14:33] <JontheEchidna> http://techbase.kde.org/Policies/Binary_Compatibility_Issues_With_C++
[14:34] <persia> JontheEchidna: libcupt-perl is yet another interface, if you're looking at options.  No idea whether it matches your design preferences.
[14:35] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: okay, I rage quit, I'm too green for this
[14:35]  * Quintasan wonders how to actually start
[14:35] <JontheEchidna> Quintasan: Thanks for the interest anyhow. :)
[14:37] <Quintasan> JontheEchidna: your code just made me go "lol wtf is this, I don't get it >_<"
[14:37] <Quintasan> 5 WTF's per second
[14:37] <Quintasan> really
[14:37] <Quintasan> :O\
[15:19] <neversfelde> I get an akonadi self test everytime I start kontact, someone else experienced the same problem?
[15:22] <_scottl> neversfelde: yeah it was solved in 10.04 for me
[15:22] <neversfelde> _scottl: this is 10.04
[15:41] <ScottK> apachelogger is the akonadi fixing guru.  I don't have this problem.
[15:51] <apachelogger> entirely depends on what neversfelde's selftest says
[15:51] <apachelogger> also I suspect a one minute timeout for the eventloop to return is still not enough
[15:51] <apachelogger> especially when akonadi/mysql did not shut down properly and does recovering magic
[15:54] <ScottK> If there's something one can do, it seems like decent release note material.
[15:56] <apachelogger> note: mysql is the crap, so akonadi sometimes comes up with weird issues
[15:57]  * apachelogger was talking about krake with this and he also agreed that like 99% of the akonadi issues one might encounter are mysql related
[15:58] <apachelogger> s/about krake with this/about this with krake ;)
[16:04] <debfx> could we add to the release notes that one needs to install kmozillahelper to get the kde integration for firefox (except when using the firefox installer)?
[16:17] <ScottK> debfx: Yes.  That's a perfect release note item.
[16:18] <neversfelde> apachelogger: I messed up my system, have to fix it first and after that I will have a look at the selftest again
[16:19] <ScottK> debfx: claydoh is, IIRC, the person to talk to.
[16:38] <shtylman> ScottK: are you a chromium converter now? :)
[16:58] <ramanK_> Hi there
[16:59] <ramanK_> I have a problem with the brightness of the screen
[16:59] <neversfelde> apachelogger: http://pastebin.kubuntu-de.org/149 The problem is gone after deleting my Akonadi config, so it is probably my fault
[17:01] <ramanK_> If The power profile be the performance mode , and I decrease the brighness , then every minute it increase my display brightness to the maximom
[17:01] <ramanK_> what should I do?
[17:04] <ramanK_> It's vey vey annoying !!!
[17:04] <ramanK_> very very*
[17:05] <debfx> ramanK_: this doesn't happen with other profiles?
[17:05] <ramanK_> debfx: no
[17:06] <debfx> ramanK_: does it only happend when the system is idle?
[17:07] <ramanK_> debfx: no , it's happening all the time
[17:11] <ramanK_> :(
[17:18] <ScottK> shtylman: I'm not fully converted, but I can see the appeal.
[17:18] <shtylman> :)
[17:18] <shtylman> give it time
[17:18] <ScottK> shtylman: Is there a way I can make it so that if I click on a link to a .deb, it just opens in ark instead of downloading the file?
[17:19] <shtylman> hmm... not sure... there might be a way, I don't know off the top of my head cause I always have things download to a downloads folder
[17:20] <shtylman> that way if I need it again I have it
[17:20] <shtylman> I see something called auto open settings
[17:20] <shtylman> but it seems grayed out for me
[17:20] <shtylman> so might be a feature to come
[17:20] <ScottK> It's pretty common for me to need to inspect files like that so I want them to open in ark and not be left laying around afterwards.
[17:20] <ScottK> In Konqueror it's just right click, open with ....
[17:22] <shtylman> how do you do it now in chrome... just download and then click the downloaded item?
[17:22] <shtylman> cause iirc the giant button for the download has an open with option
[17:23] <ScottK> I'll check that out.
[17:23] <ScottK> Maybe I just missed it.
[17:31] <ScottK> I'm seeing a problem here on multiple systems where logoff of a non-admin user fails with some kind of glib error.
[17:31] <ScottK> Did anyone else see it?
[18:35] <lex79> need testers for this bug 551290
[18:45] <shadeslayer> lemme see
[18:46] <shadeslayer> lex79: nope.. but im using the -21 and -20 kernels,so not entirely sure if its reproducable
[18:47] <lex79> uhmm, not sure
[18:47] <shadeslayer> lex79: well his kernel boot command shows hes using the -18 kernel,so i cant say if its the kubuntu-default-settings or the kernel
[18:48] <shadeslayer> other than that,its not reproducable
[18:48] <lex79> I don't know, it works here and works for another user too
[18:49] <shadeslayer> lex79: i had this initially but it was fixed later on...
[18:50] <lex79> slacker_nl: what? the ugly theme with proprietary driver is only fixed in plymouth theme ubuntu, not in kubuntu
[18:50] <lex79> ops sorry, I mean shadeslayer :)
[18:51] <lex79> you should still have that bug, not anymore with my package
[18:51] <shadeslayer> lex79: uh whut! i dont have it \o/
[18:51] <shadeslayer> magic....
[18:52] <lex79> :)
[18:52] <shadeslayer> 1:10.04ubuntu23 << version of kubuntu default settings
[18:55] <lex79> shadeslayer: which driver you use?
[18:56] <shadeslayer> lex79: well i was using the nvidia driver till i added the xorg edgers ppa and switched to nouveau
[18:56] <apachelogger> neversfelde: looks like your database was busted beyond scope anyway
[18:56] <apachelogger> 100425 17:22:50 [Warning] Can't open and lock time zone table: Table 'mysql.time_zone_leap_second' doesn't exist trying to live without them
[18:56] <apachelogger> 100425 17:22:50 [ERROR] Can't open and lock privilege tables: Table 'mysql.servers' doesn't exi
[18:56] <lex79> shadeslayer: that bug is only with proprietary driver
[18:56] <apachelogger> that should not happen with our update and init and whatnot scripts
[18:56] <lex79> shadeslayer: you can't test my fix if you don't use proprietary
[18:57] <shadeslayer> lex79: but the fact remains,that i didnt have that ugly screenshot with the proprietary drivers
[18:57] <apachelogger> so I must assume it happens because the database is so badly broken that even the system tables are b0rked
[18:57] <lex79> shadeslayer: strange
[18:57] <shadeslayer> lex79: yeah,the resolution was 1280x800 something on my 1440x900 LCD
[18:57] <neversfelde> apachelogger: I got this problem on two different machines, probably the google akonadi client is the problem, I will have a look at this
[18:58] <shadeslayer> but it wasnt that bad...
[19:14] <ScottK> No one else has seen problems with non-admin users logging off?  I can replicate it on several machines with KDM/KDE, but not with KDM/Gnome.
[19:19] <lex79> no here
[19:20] <neversfelde> lex79: I can confirm that this nvidia/plymouth problem is fixed with your packages
[19:21] <lex79> neversfelde: do you like the theme? it's not awesome but at least is watchable :)
[19:21] <lex79> neversfelde: can you write your feedback in LP? thanks
[19:22] <neversfelde> lex79: it is better than before :)
[19:22] <neversfelde> lex79: sure
[19:22] <lex79> :D
[19:24] <ScottK> lex79: What video do you have?
[19:24] <lex79> video card? nvidia gtx 260
[19:24] <ScottK> All my failing machines are Intel.  Not sure if it's related
[19:25] <lex79> I don't know... :( I have no problems here with KDM/KDE
[19:26] <ScottK> Anyone else with Intel?
[19:26] <lex79> maybe apachelogger...
[19:30] <persia> ScottK: Can you replicate on a system that *doesn't* have GNOME installed, or just one with GNOME?
[19:31] <ScottK> persia: Both
[19:31] <ScottK> i.e. happens whether Gnome is installed or not
[19:32] <persia> Hrm.  I'll see if I can replicate in a VM.
[19:32] <ScottK> It does not, however, happen when I log out of Gnome with KDM and a non-admin user
[19:36] <neversfelde> lex79: I have Intel hardware
[19:38] <lex79> neversfelde: see the ScottK's problem with login/out with non admin user ^^
[19:38] <neversfelde> ScottK: I'll try to reproduce the problem
[19:38] <neversfelde> :)
[19:38] <ScottK> neversfelde: Thanks
[19:39]  * ScottK is updating a third machine to see how pervasive it is here.
[19:52] <persia> Wow.  I hadn't tried a Kubuntu install in a VM before.  It uses *lots* of RAM.
[19:53] <ScottK> It'll likely settle down once nepomuk's appetite is satisfied.
[19:54] <persia> This is just running the installer on the liveCD, when I thought that was disabled.
[19:55]  * persia usually does installs at 512MB, but has given this a bit more
[19:57] <ScottK> Yes, it is disabled on the live CD
[19:58] <persia> Looking into it a bit, I suspect the issue is really the 3D stuff: I end up doing it in software in a VM, which then requires memory for render space.
[19:58] <persia> (and then apparently hurts performance because of neeting to send the results over the network)
[19:59] <persia> (in summary: don't run Kubuntu Desktop in a VM with VNC and expect the experience one gets with a real install)
[20:00] <neversfelde> ScottK: KDM crashes after logging out my testuser, but that seems to happen randomly and also with admin users
[20:01] <ScottK> neversfelde: OK, so sounds like you get to file a different bug.
[20:07] <ScottK> Yep.  Happens on netbook too.
[20:19] <maco> im being asked on identi.ca to recommend a scanning app for kde. any suggestions? skanlite is all i see in an apt-cache search, and that doesnt seem to do multipage scanning or pdf output, so...?
[20:19] <maco> (i use simple-scan or xsane)
[20:21] <ScottK> skanlite is the most KDEish one.
[20:21] <ScottK> IIRC some KOffice app could do that too.
[20:22] <ScottK> maco: gwenview has an import from scanner function.
[20:24] <maco> ok
[20:28] <neversfelde> ScottK: I get the same error message every second time I logout
[20:29] <ScottK> neversfelde: I filed my bug as Bug #569879
[20:29] <neversfelde> yes, already seen this
[20:30] <neversfelde> I will file a second bug tomorrow, but that might be related
[20:38] <ScottK> Riddell: Looks like we have some logout issues that may need to be understood better and release noted if not fixed.
[20:40] <persia> ScottK: I'm going to stop trying to replicate.  I (finally) managed to get the install complete and the non-admin user created, and X crashes.  I'm fairly sure I'd need to test in a more suitable environment (but need to fix my HD on that machine).
[20:41] <ScottK> persia: OK.  Thanks for trying.
[20:41] <ScottK> Don't forget to file the bug about the X crash.
[20:41] <ScottK> Changing to nomodeset in the boot options fixes it.
[20:42]  * ScottK tries on another machine.
[20:46] <persia> Oops.  I already deleted the machine.
[20:46]  * persia was deleting at the time of stopping replication, since that was easier than shutting down or anything.  Silly virtualisation making things too easy.
[20:47] <neversfelde> ScottK: Bug #569897
[20:48] <ScottK> neversfelde: OK.  It appears that my problem doesn't happen every time either.
[20:48] <ScottK> So I'm going to test some more before declaring I have a workaround
[20:49] <neversfelde> good luck and gn8 :)
[20:49] <ScottK> OK, so failed on the second try.
[20:49] <ScottK> Mine by be every other try too.
[22:38] <DarkwingDuck> jjesse: ping
[23:20] <apachelogger> fooey
[23:21]  * apachelogger forgot about a deadline and just managed to dump a heuristic evaluation because dearest svn discouraged him from commiting that stuff right away :(
[23:21] <apachelogger> life--
[23:22] <apachelogger> ah
[23:22] <apachelogger> good thing I have all that stuff in a repo itself ^^