[01:19] <godbyk> I knew if I waited long enough to sit down in front of my computer that everyone wanting my help would give up and leave.  Mwuhahaha!
[03:20] <humphreybc> godbyk: ping
[03:22] <godbyk> humphreybc: pong.
[03:23] <godbyk> humphreybc: 'bout time you got online.  have you seen the ubuntu docs mailing list today?
[03:23] <humphreybc> yeah
[03:23] <humphreybc> ubuntu manual install guide or something
[03:23] <godbyk> yeah
[03:23] <humphreybc> sorry i've been busy recording podcast, sleeping, then finding out Joey's end didn't record
[03:23] <godbyk> no worries.
[03:23] <godbyk> oh, wow!
[03:23] <humphreybc> anyway, we're getting pretty close to release
[03:23] <godbyk> so you have to re-record it all?
[03:23] <humphreybc> maybe :S
[03:24] <humphreybc> so how's the cover art going from thorwil?
[03:24] <humphreybc> and the website stuff?
[03:25] <godbyk> I haven't heard anything about the website for a while and haven't seen daker online.
[03:25]  * humphreybc curses 
[03:25] <godbyk> thorwil's currently fighting with inkscape to get it to convert the cover to a PDF without munging it in the process.
[03:25] <humphreybc> okay. looks like our review quotes never eventuated, i only got one from jono
[03:26] <godbyk> 'kay. maybe we'll use those in future editions then.
[03:26] <humphreybc> yeah
[03:26] <humphreybc> we need to get it up on lulu.com asap
[03:26] <godbyk> I'm still going through and rearranging the margin notes a bit (so they align more nicely).
[03:26] <godbyk> but I'll be posting it all to lulu.com as soon as I can.
[03:28] <humphreybc> what's thorwil's email?
[03:28] <godbyk> humphreybc: t_w_@freenet.de
[03:29] <humphreybc> ok i just sent an email off to Iain, he should get it tomorrow and hopefully email the SVG straight to thorwil
[03:29] <humphreybc> for the Ubuntu logo
[03:29] <godbyk> where do you think it should go on the cover?
[03:29] <humphreybc> oh I see, some people are actually interested in the installation guide, in a different thread
[03:30] <humphreybc> have you got the link to the cover design he gave us?
[03:30] <godbyk> let me look
[03:31] <godbyk> humphreybc: http://www.foopics.com/showfull/fddac3455a98dbeffde57cd44c163543
[03:31] <humphreybc> awesome
[03:31] <humphreybc> maybe the bottom left corner, underneath the circle of friends wave
[03:31] <humphreybc> so it would be the same place as "The Ubuntu Manual Team" but mirrored
[03:31] <godbyk> I think he's wrestling with the UMP logo.  Inkscape keeps barfing on it.
[03:31] <humphreybc> heh
[03:32] <godbyk> So right-aligned on that same line?  Just 'ubuntu*'?
[03:32] <humphreybc> left aligned
[03:32] <humphreybc> it'll be on the left side of the back cover
[03:32] <humphreybc> on the same line as "The Ubuntu Manual Team"
[03:32] <humphreybc> lined up with the main text on the back
[03:33] <godbyk> so "The Ubuntu Manual Team" should be right-aligned then?
[03:33] <humphreybc> yes
[03:33] <humphreybc> that should stay how it is
[03:33] <humphreybc> no no

[03:33]  * godbyk is confused.
[03:33] <humphreybc> I mean "The Ubuntu Manual Team" wording on the FRONT cover
[03:33] <godbyk> If you want them on the same line, you either get "Team ... Logo" or "Logo ... Team"
[03:33] <humphreybc> no no
[03:33] <humphreybc> dw, i'll slap in a placeholder thing in a minute
[03:33] <godbyk> Ah.
[03:33] <godbyk> I see what you mean.
[03:34] <humphreybc> then I'll email it to thorwil
[03:34] <godbyk> You want it at the very bottom of the page.
[03:34] <godbyk> k
[03:34] <godbyk> I'll let you guys figure out the cover.
[03:34] <godbyk> (I've got plenty of others details to fret over. :-))
[03:34] <humphreybc> lol ok
[03:35] <humphreybc> and if you see daker, he needs to move the site over asap
[03:35] <humphreybc> and he needs to make sure when that countdown timer hits zero, it switches over to the main front page with download links and big stars and things with links to buy the copy on lulu.com
[03:35] <godbyk> he also apparently needs to fix the font stack. Ilya says the main font looks really bad under Windows.
[03:36] <godbyk> further, I don't know if he's created the download tracking scripts and forms yet.
[03:36] <godbyk> maybe you should email him all this.
[03:36] <humphreybc> ok
[03:36] <godbyk> (I haven't seen him in here for a few days.)
[03:36] <humphreybc> yeah
[04:44] <humphreybc> http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/manual-print.png
[05:26] <r2q2> Hello
[05:26] <r2q2> I'm zitterbewegung on ubuntu-docs
[05:27] <godbyk> Hey, r2q2. How's it going?
[05:27] <r2q2> Its going good
[05:27] <r2q2> Can't wait till 10.04
[05:28] <humphreybc> only a few days now!
[05:28] <godbyk> I could use a little more time.  (I'm still tweaking the manual a bit.)
[05:28] <hemanth> humphreybc, i was a part of first p2pu courses on open web mashups, i gave the like and invited few Mozilla drumbeat team members to Ubuntu manual project, lets see how will they respond :)
[05:28] <humphreybc> heh nice
[05:29]  * hemanth whereis ubuntujunkie 
[05:29] <godbyk> hemanth: he's offline at the moment.
[05:29] <godbyk> he disappeared about 6 hours ago.
[05:30] <hemanth> godbyk,ya noticed he was not online, so threw a whereis query ;)
[05:30] <godbyk> hemanth: he just said, 'night all o/' and went offline.
[05:30] <godbyk> so he's probably sleeping.
[05:31] <hemanth> o ok :)
[05:32] <humphreybc> what does o/ mean?
[05:33] <hemanth> humphreybc, bye symbol, o=>head, /=>hand, its like waving
[05:38] <humphreybc> ahh
[05:38]  * hemanth hands up \o/ lol
[07:05] <godbyk> Hey, everyone.  Here's the final draft for the US English edition: http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/builds/ubuntu-manual-final-draft.pdf
[07:06] <godbyk> Could you give it a final look before I upload it to lulu?
[07:06] <godbyk> At this point, I'm just fixing minor typos, layout bugs, etc.
[07:06] <godbyk> Hey, ubuntujenkins. http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/builds/ubuntu-manual-final-draft.pdf
[07:06] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: Here's the final draft for the US English edition: http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/builds/ubuntu-manual-final-draft.pdf
[07:06] <ubuntujenkins> hello godbyk and everyone else
[07:06] <godbyk> You showed up just in time. :)
[07:07] <ubuntujenkins> in time for what?
[07:07] <godbyk> to help proofread the final draft.
[07:12] <ubuntujenkins> I have just noticed the rouding is wrond on some of the window buttons
[07:13] <godbyk> I have no idea what you just said.
[07:14] <ubuntujenkins> look at page 21 and the minimize button of the first slide  window it should be rounded both sides
[07:15] <ubuntujenkins> fixing it now
[07:18] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: aha. I see what you mean.
[07:18] <godbyk> Hey, IlyaHaykinson.
[07:18] <ubuntujenkins> hello IlyaHaykinson
[07:19] <godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: Here's the final draft for the US English edition: http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/builds/ubuntu-manual-final-draft.pdf  Let me know if you notice any final tweaks I need to make.
[07:22] <godbyk> Identity crisis, IlyaHaykinson_? :)
[07:22] <IlyaHaykinson_> connection issues
[07:23] <IlyaHaykinson_> well, no; patching a driver caused my wifi connection to bounce; upon reconnecting, freenode thought the no-underscore account was still around
[07:23] <godbyk> I'm hoping my connection issues are a thing of the past.  Time will tell.
[07:23] <IlyaHaykinson_> anyways, i think i found us a researcher
[07:23] <godbyk> A researcher?
[07:23] <IlyaHaykinson_> my friend does user research for a living.
[07:23] <godbyk> Cool.
[07:23] <IlyaHaykinson_> mainly for UI
[07:24] <IlyaHaykinson_> but she knows how to run user groups
[07:24] <IlyaHaykinson_> and basically do qualitative research
[07:24] <godbyk> right.
[07:24] <IlyaHaykinson_> and may be able to help us with quantitative too
[07:24] <godbyk> (I do that sort of thing, too, but I'd probably have to jump through IRB hoops to do anything.)
[07:25] <godbyk> IlyaHaykinson_: did you get the pdf link?
[07:25] <IlyaHaykinson_> you work for a college?
[07:25] <godbyk> I'm a grad student.
[07:25] <IlyaHaykinson_> ah.
[07:26] <IlyaHaykinson_> PDF link, no.
[07:26] <godbyk> IlyaHaykinson_: Here's the final draft for the US English edition: http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/builds/ubuntu-manual-final-draft.pdf  Let me know if you notice any final tweaks I need to make.
[07:26] <IlyaHaykinson_> ok, let me review
[07:26] <godbyk> They get a bit testy about doing studies without prior approval.  And approval takes forever 'cause they're so backlogged.
[07:27] <godbyk> 'kay.
[07:27] <IlyaHaykinson_> nod.
[07:27] <IlyaHaykinson_> question.. what happened to the mozilla docs authors?
[07:27] <IlyaHaykinson_> we used to have them credited by name.
[07:27] <IlyaHaykinson_> i think we still need to.
[07:27] <godbyk> IlyaHaykinson_: Hmm.. yeah, if they're not there, they should be.
[07:28] <godbyk> I think that's that list humphreybc gave me a while back.
[07:28] <godbyk> I think there's a ton of stuff missing from the credits section, frankly.
[07:29] <IlyaHaykinson_> such as?
[07:30] <godbyk> Well, I think there are a huge number of translators we need to include at some point.
[07:31] <godbyk> And I think there's a mechanism for doing it, but it won't be ready for this first edition.
[07:31] <IlyaHaykinson_> hm, there's no way in the PDF to go to the title page or TOC
[07:31] <IlyaHaykinson_> i don't think there's anything that we can do here, right?
[07:31] <IlyaHaykinson_> i see.
[07:31] <godbyk> Also, I have no idea what material in the manual was written originally for this project and which was lifted from other docs. And I don't know what licenses those other docs may have had, but some may need to be cited.
[07:32] <IlyaHaykinson_> well, hence the mozilla note
[07:32] <godbyk> right.
[07:32] <IlyaHaykinson_> it was a CC-BY-SA 3.0 license
[07:32] <godbyk> what do you mean there's no way to go to the toc of title page?
[07:32] <IlyaHaykinson_> i don't think there was a lot of other lifting
[07:32] <godbyk> I'm hoping there wasn't.
[07:32] <IlyaHaykinson_> we couldn't lift any GNOME docs because they are GFDL
[07:32] <IlyaHaykinson_> which is not compatible
[07:32] <godbyk> right.
[07:32] <IlyaHaykinson_> i mean in the PDF bookmarks list, there's no shortcut to the title page or TOC
[07:32] <godbyk> oh, gotcha.
[07:32] <IlyaHaykinson_> while there is a shortcut for each chapter
[07:32] <godbyk> I think I can manually add pdf bookmarks. I'll look into it.
[07:34] <IlyaHaykinson_> and here is one that's weird
[07:34] <IlyaHaykinson_> on windows, copy/paste into word has issues
[07:34] <IlyaHaykinson_> digraphs like "ck" show up as a box
[07:37] <godbyk> IlyaHaykinson_: yeah, I think the digraphs are stored in the private-use area of the typeface and latex isn't storing the decomposed characters in the pdf.
[07:38] <godbyk> it probably prevents searching for words with ligatures and/or digraphs, too.
[07:39] <IlyaHaykinson_> yes
[07:40] <IlyaHaykinson_> i.e. a search for "check" only yields results in the margin, titles, or monospaced font
[07:40] <godbyk> I'll add that to my list of things to look into for the next edition.
[07:40] <godbyk> I think there's some low-level fiddling that can be done to help with that, but I've never done it before.
[07:41] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: just pushed rev 811 which has the fixed images in
[07:41] <manualbot> http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/revision/811 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual -r 811
[07:42] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: thanks, I'll get those merged into my branch and upload a fresh pdf soon.
[07:42] <ubuntujenkins> kk I am not sure how i missed that before.
[07:43] <ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: have you tried the ppa?
[07:43] <humphreybc> sorry, nope i haven't yet
[07:44] <ubuntujenkins> I think you will like it :-)
[07:44] <ubuntujenkins> the name does give it away but still
[07:48] <godbyk> Hey, humphreybc.  Can you check this pdf http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/builds/ubuntu-manual-final-draft.pdf and make sure I have all the credits right as per your email? Also, did I remove the Mozilla credits or did you? Either way, they need to be in there.
[07:48] <humphreybc> okay okay
[07:48] <humphreybc> i'm going to make some dinner in a sec
[07:49] <godbyk> IlyaHaykinson_: I've added pdf bookmarks for the title page and the TOC.
[07:50] <godbyk> any others?
[07:52] <IlyaHaykinson_> i think it looks great!
[07:52] <IlyaHaykinson_> really proud of this manual
[07:53] <IlyaHaykinson_> i can definitely see a lot of rough areas, and a lot of fraying around the edges, but it's a heck of a lot closer to a professional book than anything else
[07:54] <godbyk> yeah. I'm hoping we can clean those rough edges up for the second edition.
[07:54] <IlyaHaykinson_> i've often considered the concept of a community-written book to be theoretical at best (cf. Wikibooks), but this has turned out to be really great.
[07:54] <godbyk> IlyaHaykinson_, and ubuntujenkins: I've uploaded a fresh copy of the PDF. Can you check the screenshots and PDF bookmarks?
[07:54] <IlyaHaykinson_> i'm definitely ordering myself a lulu copy for my bookshelf :)
[07:55] <godbyk> I think it's worked fairly well.  I think the Maverick will be a cake walk compared to what we've gone through for this first release.
[07:55] <godbyk> We'll Have the vast majority of the infrastructure in place (and a lot of the text, too).
[07:55] <IlyaHaykinson_> godbyk: hopefully. though i do think we have a lot of work aftre we do some research
[07:55] <IlyaHaykinson_> but yes, definitely helpful beyond belief to have the infrastrucutre there
[07:56] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: I don't think the link has updated yet
[07:56] <godbyk> IlyaHaykinson_: I agree. I want to know what the actual sticking points are for people.
[07:56] <IlyaHaykinson_> can you move the PDF bookmark above the Contents chapter header?
[07:56] <IlyaHaykinson_> right now it points below it.
[07:56] <godbyk> I tried.
[07:56] <godbyk> If I move it before the header, then it goes to the previous page.
[07:56] <godbyk> If I get time, I'll dig deeper into the underlying macros and see where the best spot for it is.
[07:57] <godbyk> But at the level of \tableofcontents, that's the best I can do.
[07:57] <godbyk> The TOC bookmark name will get translated automatically, but the front cover one won't.
[07:57] <IlyaHaykinson_> ok, no worries. this is good enough.
[07:58] <godbyk> I'll have to talk to dutchie and see if we can make a list of random strings for the translators to translate outside of the .tex files.
[07:58]  * ubuntujenkins now has a new version
[07:58] <IlyaHaykinson_> besides, we don't really have a lot of translations :)
[07:58] <godbyk> true.
[07:58] <godbyk> I'm not worried about the translations at all right now.
[07:58] <godbyk> I'm just trying to perfect this English version as much as possible before I upload it to lulu.
[07:58] <IlyaHaykinson_> nod.
[07:59] <IlyaHaykinson_> should we wait for Lucid to actually drop? just in case they added some last minute change?
[07:59] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: look at page 51 the figure number is covered by a picture
[08:00] <godbyk> nah.. if they do that, we'll catch it for the second edition.
[08:00] <godbyk> I think the translators already hate me. :)
[08:00] <IlyaHaykinson_> ok
[08:00] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: good catch. let me see if I can fix that.
[08:01]  * godbyk needs a faster computer for compiling this manual.
[08:01] <IlyaHaykinson_> p66
[08:02] <IlyaHaykinson_> should we really expose someone's email address here in thde screenshot
[08:03] <godbyk> probably not.  is it a real account?
[08:03] <IlyaHaykinson_> yes
[08:04] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: IlyaHaykinson_ they were suppose to use quickshot@ubuntu-manual.org
[08:04] <ubuntujenkins> I need to run be back in 20 mins
[08:04] <ubuntujenkins> I can do a new one in a few hours as I ahve lectures and stuff
[08:04] <ubuntujenkins> ]sorry
[08:04] <IlyaHaykinson_> ok, thanks
[08:04] <thorwil> morning!
[08:05] <godbyk> cool. thanks, ubuntujenkins
[08:05] <godbyk> hey, thorwil!
[08:05] <godbyk> join the party.
[08:05] <godbyk> we're going over the final draft of the English edition with a fine-toothed comb before I upload it to lulu.
[08:05] <godbyk> http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/builds/ubuntu-manual-final-draft.pdf
[08:06] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: I fixed the caption overrun bug on page 51.
[08:07] <IlyaHaykinson_> godbyk: no more problems on my side. at least nothing for lucid-e1 ;-)
[08:07] <godbyk> 'kay, thanks, IlyaHaykinson_
[08:07] <IlyaHaykinson_> gonna log for the night. super sleepy.
[08:07] <godbyk> I'm holding you to it!
[08:07] <IlyaHaykinson_> l8r!
[08:08] <IlyaHaykinson_> heh
[08:08] <godbyk> "IlyaHaykinson_ said it was error-free!"
[08:08] <godbyk> see ya
[08:08] <thorwil> godbyk: if i can't drive out this gremlin of an export/rendering bug, i'll have to turn the UM logo into a bitmap for the lulu cover. or drop it entirely
[08:08] <IlyaHaykinson_> ah, but as long as it's IlyaHaykinson_ then we can just blame any errors on the underscore
[08:08] <godbyk> thorwil: yeah, I was going to suggest trying that as a last-resort.
[08:08] <godbyk> IlyaHaykinson_: lol
[08:09] <IlyaHaykinson_> ok, bye folks. i'll probably have lunch or coffee with my researcher friend, get her to join the group, and then we'll take it from there.
[08:09] <IlyaHaykinson_> godbyk, hopefully you can at the very least provide some input into the process since you have experience.
[08:09] <IlyaHaykinson_> l8r folks
[08:21] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: I ate my breakfast really quick the fix is in lucid-e1
[08:21] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: what fix?
[08:21] <ubuntujenkins> and ran back from it
[08:21] <ubuntujenkins> for the screenshot
[08:21] <godbyk> which screenshot
[08:21] <godbyk> oh, the email one?
[08:22] <ubuntujenkins> 03-evolution-enter-password.png page 66 , yep
[08:22] <godbyk> okay, cool.  I'll pull it across.
[08:22] <godbyk> I uploaded a new pdf and fixed the overlapping caption/figure if you want to take a look.
[08:29] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: can you make the caption show underneath and not on top? All the big ones have the caption underneath
[08:30] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: not when it's aligned on the bottom of the page.
[08:30] <ubuntujenkins> kk fair enough
[08:31] <godbyk> technically, of course, the answer is 'yeah, I could do that', but I can't do it using the existing \screenshot command.  it abstracts away the lower-level commands I'd need to pull that off.
[08:32] <ubuntujenkins> it doen't matter that much i am juts being picky :)
[08:32] <humphreybc> okay, i'm back
[08:32] <humphreybc> what do I need to look at?
[08:32] <ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: there is no facebook evetn for the release
[08:33] <humphreybc> true
[08:36] <humphreybc> what else do i need to look at? PPA? godbyk did you have something?
[08:36] <godbyk> humphreybc: credits
[08:36] <godbyk> http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/builds/ubuntu-manual-final-draft.pdf
[08:36] <godbyk> and, y'know, everything else in the manual.
[08:36] <humphreybc> lol ok
[08:36] <godbyk> final editing/tweaks.
[08:37] <godbyk> I'm going to go bake some cookies, I think.  I'll be back in about 20 minutes or so.
[08:37] <godbyk> Feel free to leaves messages here of things I need to fix.
[08:37] <godbyk> I'd like to get all of it wrapped up so I can upload it to hulu.
[08:44] <humphreybc> godbyk, are we sticking with brick red for hyperlinks? Can we *please* change it to aubergine?
[08:44] <godbyk> Depends on how it looks in print, I suppose.
[08:45] <humphreybc> dark aubergine will be fine I think
[08:45] <ubuntujenkins> I am off to lectures. If anyone wants me please leave me a message and i will  get back asap
[08:47] <godbyk> humphreybc: go find me the official aubergine color values and I'll see how it looks.
[08:47] <humphreybc> godbyk, page 98 there is a yellow warning thing which has "Legal Notice Patent and...." I think it should be "Legal Notice: Patent and..."
[08:47] <godbyk> humphreybc: what chapter is that in?
[08:47] <humphreybc> Working with Ubuntu, 3
[08:49] <humphreybc> thorwil, did you get my email?
[08:49] <godbyk> bah.  I just removed some extra line spacing after the section headings in the credits chapter so I wouldn't have an orphaned section heading.
[08:49] <godbyk> that made things look nicer, but now it's a different section heading being orphaned.
[08:49] <godbyk> if humphreybc tells me the credits contain all they're meant to contains, I'll add a manual page break and be done with it.
[08:50]  * humphreybc checks the credits
[08:50] <thorwil> humphreybc: yes. you got lucky by putting the logo in a reasonable place. else i would rip you head off now, for daring to step into my field ;P
[08:50] <humphreybc> thorwil: LOL
[08:50] <humphreybc> Iain should be emailing you the SVG for the logo in the next couple of hours
[08:50] <godbyk> thorwil: you should've been in this channel when humphreybc was trying to explain to me where he wanted the logo to go.
[08:50] <humphreybc> thorwil: do you know the color code for the Aubergine they're using?
[08:51] <humphreybc> godbyk: can we please bring the developers heading down one line so it's on the next page
[08:51] <thorwil> humphreybc: no. i think red hyperlinks go better with the orange tones we use on the cover
[08:52] <godbyk> humphreybc: <sigh> as soon as you give me the okay on all the names and make sure I didn't miss any.
[08:52] <humphreybc> godbyk: well you pulled it from the text file I sent?
[08:53] <godbyk> humphreybc: yeah, but then Ilya said it looked like we had left out the Mozilla/Firefox guys he had in there.
[08:53] <humphreybc> oh okay
[08:53] <humphreybc> yeah no add them in
[08:53] <humphreybc> i wasn't sure if they should have been given credit or not
[08:53] <godbyk> can you find 'em for me?
[08:53] <godbyk> I'm going to fix some supper.
[08:54] <godbyk> I'll be back in about 20 minutes.
[08:54] <humphreybc> find the names of the firefox people?
[08:54] <godbyk> humphreybc: yeah
[08:54] <humphreybc> um
[08:54] <humphreybc> Not sure where i'd find them
[08:55] <godbyk> grab an old pdf I s'pose.
[08:55] <humphreybc> :\
[08:55] <godbyk> the beta should have 'em.
[08:55] <humphreybc> ok ok
[08:55] <godbyk> bbiab
[08:56] <humphreybc> Firefox people are as follows:
[08:56] <humphreybc> Chris_Ilias
[08:56] <humphreybc> Bo
[08:56] <humphreybc> underpass
[08:56] <humphreybc> jehurd
[08:56] <humphreybc> cl58
[08:56] <humphreybc> kjhass
[08:56] <humphreybc> djstsys
[08:56] <humphreybc> mozilla_help_view_project
[08:57] <humphreybc> thorwil: can we please just get the colour code and try it?
[08:58]  * humphreybc just pinged Iain Farrell the minute he came on IRC
[09:00] <thorwil> humphreybc, godbyk: 772953 as used on http://design.canonical.com/
[09:27] <godbyk> I'm back now.
[09:27] <godbyk> humphreybc: and which section do those names belong under?
[09:27] <humphreybc> thorwil: I just had a chat with Iain, they finalized the draft on Friday, are just working on the logo guidelines now and should have something for us later this AM
[09:27] <humphreybc> godbyk: Special thanks?
[09:28] <humphreybc> I am really tempted to just call them "The Firefox Documentation Team" or something, because their screen names are... well.. unprofessional looking
[09:30] <godbyk> I think you have to cite their names as-is (per CC-BY), but I'm not sure.
[09:31] <humphreybc> sigh. alright, do that then
[09:33] <godbyk> rebuilding pdf
[09:33] <humphreybc> I just rendered the final contributors video
[09:33] <humphreybc> It's 150mb
[09:33] <humphreybc> I guess I'll just put it on my server?
[09:34] <godbyk> humphreybc: you should just upload it directly to my server.
[09:34] <godbyk> lemme find the ftp info
[09:34] <humphreybc> okay
[09:34] <humphreybc> cool
[09:34] <humphreybc> then you'll need to resize and flashify it
[09:34] <godbyk> (It takes me too long to download from you and reupload to the server. :-))
[09:34] <humphreybc> then give it to daker to embed into the contributors page
[09:35] <godbyk> humphreybc: I emailed you the login info
[09:35] <humphreybc> ok
[09:35] <godbyk> send me the specs on size and audio quality.
[09:36] <godbyk> I'll be right back.
[09:36] <humphreybc> probably very much the same as the last one we did
[09:37] <humphreybc> godbyk: please tell me how I do ftp?
[09:38] <godbyk> back
[09:38] <godbyk> humphreybc: using any ftp client. :)
[09:38] <godbyk> I like filezilla.
[09:38] <humphreybc> ah
[09:38] <humphreybc> okay
[09:38] <godbyk> ncftpput also works handily, though.
[09:39] <humphreybc> I've used Filezilla before, years ago, at school
[09:39] <godbyk> you can also just use nautilus and drag-and-drop.
[09:39] <godbyk> Places > Connect to server...
[09:40] <humphreybc> ..
[09:41] <humphreybc> that sounds easiest
[09:42] <godbyk> probably.
[09:42] <humphreybc> awesome!
[09:45] <humphreybc> 13 minutes left apparently
[09:48] <humphreybc> that would be me transferring the wrong file
[09:48] <humphreybc> just over an hour, that's more realistic haha
[09:48] <godbyk> lol
[09:49] <godbyk> I was gonna say.
[09:49] <godbyk> When I'm downloading from you it takes a lot longer than that.
[09:55] <humphreybc> lol
[09:55] <godbyk> back now
[09:56] <humphreybc> okay what else needs to be done? where's daker?!
[09:57] <godbyk> humphreybc: the aubergine is too light.
[09:57] <humphreybc> really?
[09:57] <godbyk> not sure where daker is.. haven't seen him for a bit.
[09:57] <godbyk> I've fixed all the bugs people have told me about (so far) in this pdf.
[09:57] <godbyk> thorwil's busy working away on the cover.
[09:58] <godbyk> once that's done, we should be ready to upload to lulu.
[09:58] <godbyk> (I'm going to turn off the color links when I upload to lulu so the b&w printed copy looks nicer.)
[09:58] <humphreybc> what about the aubergine from this?
[09:58] <humphreybc> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Brand?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=boot.png
[09:58] <godbyk> humphreybc: isn't that a gradient?
[09:58] <godbyk> give me an actual html color code and I'll try.
[09:59] <humphreybc> if it is, it's a very very faint one
[09:59] <humphreybc> kk gimme a sec
[10:01] <humphreybc> it's not a gradient
[10:01] <humphreybc> solid colour, #1A0512
[10:01] <humphreybc> you could also try #6e154c
[10:01] <humphreybc> which is a lot lighter
[10:09] <godbyk> humphreybc: the 1A0512 is effectively black.
[10:09] <humphreybc> eyah
[10:09] <humphreybc> that it is
[10:09] <godbyk> trying the next one now.
[10:10] <godbyk> oatmeal chocolate chip cookie bars = awesome
[10:11] <humphreybc> try #4c0d34
[10:15] <godbyk> are you just making up colors now? :)
[10:16] <humphreybc> maybe
[10:16] <humphreybc> that's what the design team does, there are like a zillion different aubergines and oranges!
[10:17] <nisshh> humphreybc: should we have a release party for lucid and the manual in here?
[10:17] <godbyk> the last two aren't very noticeable when reading the pdf, so you may not realize they're links (or even notice the color change).
[10:17] <nisshh> be fun
[10:17] <humphreybc> godbyk: even 4c0d34?
[10:17] <humphreybc> nisshh: we'll probably be busy working around the release!
[10:17] <godbyk> humphreybc: yeah.
[10:18] <godbyk> we'll have to have a party.. someone has to flip the switch, right?
[10:18] <humphreybc> godbyk: #991a68 ?
[10:19] <godbyk> too light, now.
[10:19] <godbyk> we'll play with aubergine later, perhaps.
[10:19] <godbyk> when we have some time to run some better tests (instead of just plugging in random values).
[10:20] <humphreybc> lol okay
[10:31] <nisshh> humphreybc: its ok, me and godbyk will have our own 2 man party, right godbyk?
[10:31] <humphreybc> haha
[10:31] <humphreybc> i'll probably be at work
[10:32] <humphreybc> like, work where i earn money work
[10:32] <godbyk> absolutely, nisshh!
[10:32] <nisshh> pffff, shame really
[10:32] <nisshh> lol
[10:32] <humphreybc> hahaha
[10:32] <nisshh> humphreybc: what do you actually do for a living?
[10:33] <humphreybc> i'm a student, but i work at a video store on friday and saturday nights
[10:34] <thorwil> that was it, i give up. as soon as i scale the UM logo, the result will be wrong in pdf export. so i will switch to a bitmap now
[10:34] <nisshh> oh cool, so does my cousin, he earns craploads since hes the senior junior manager
[10:35] <godbyk> thorwil: think we'll ever get inkscape to stop giving us so much grief?
[10:35] <thorwil> who knows
[10:35] <humphreybc> thorwil: https://www.photoshop.com/ ?
[10:35] <humphreybc> I hear it's quite good
[10:35] <thorwil> humphreybc: illustrator
[10:35] <nisshh> humphreybc: please! not that abomination
[10:35] <godbyk> not photoshop.. illustrator would be a more apropos replacement
[10:36] <humphreybc> ah, okay
[10:36] <godbyk> vector graphics ftw!
[10:36] <humphreybc> is illustrator adobe's vector program?
[10:36] <thorwil> yes
[10:36] <nisshh> i prefer inkscape, GIMP and blender for graphics stuff
[10:37] <godbyk> we like inkscape -- it just fails to export to pdf in a lot of cases.
[10:37] <thorwil> it's a shame, really. inkscape is quite good, but aside of the lack of gradient meshes, the pdf export is buggy, apparently
[10:38] <nisshh> big shame
[10:38] <nisshh> why not contribute some fixes?
[10:39] <nisshh> like what happened with evince
[10:39] <godbyk> we haven't had time to look into it yet.
[10:39] <godbyk> for evince, the fix was already there in the upstream repository. we just had to back-port it.
[10:40] <godbyk> for inkscape, I don't know think they've fixed the problems yet, so we'd have to familiarize ourselves with the code, find the problem, figure out how to solve it, etc., etc.
[10:41] <nisshh> godbyk: true
[10:46] <thorwil> godbyk: what do you think is better/safer: flat bitmap with white ground, or one with alpha transparency?
[10:47] <thorwil> currently i have it flat
[10:48] <godbyk> thorwil: probably flat on white.
[10:48] <godbyk> In case inkscape mucks up the transparency.
[10:49] <thorwil> nah, i doubt it would much that up. it might fuck it up, though
[10:51] <godbyk> :)
[10:52] <thorwil> godbyk: you won't believe it. exported with a bitmap. the head of it gets chopped off in export. evince and gimp are of the same opinion there
[10:53] <godbyk> wtf
[10:53] <godbyk> I think inkscape has it out for us.
[10:54] <humphreybc> hehehe
[10:54] <thorwil> what i don't understand is how this can go so wrong, while other stuff gets out just fine
[10:55] <godbyk> I know.
[10:55] <humphreybc> 8 minutes left on the video upload, godbyk
[10:57] <nisshh> humphreybc: what video is this?
[10:57] <humphreybc> the contributors one
[10:57] <humphreybc> re-rendered it with some fixes
[10:57]  * humphreybc is making another one too
[10:57] <nisshh> cool
[10:58] <nisshh> throw us a link when its up
[10:58] <humphreybc> test.ubuntu-manual.org/contributors :)
[10:59] <thorwil> godbyk: added vertical padding to the image, now i get an acceptable result
[10:59] <godbyk> thorwil: so it's pixel-specific?
[11:00] <thorwil> sidenote: letting gimp render the pdf to 300dpi is faster than opening in evince and zooming in
[11:00] <thorwil> godbyk: i suspect things go wrong as soon as you scale the bitmap in inkscape. have to create the most basic test files for this and the original issue
[11:01] <nisshh> humphreybc: whats the difference between them, this one looks exactly the same...
[11:01] <ubuntujenkins> hello again o/
[11:01] <humphreybc> nisshh: it's not up yet
[11:01] <nisshh> ubuntujenkins: hey
[11:01] <ubuntujenkins> hello nisshh
[11:01] <nisshh> humphreybc: hehe, you tricked me!
[11:03] <humphreybc> 50 seconds!
[11:03] <ubuntujenkins> till what?
[11:03] <nisshh> ubuntujenkins: test.ubuntu-manual.org/contributors
[11:03] <thorwil> bbl
[11:03] <nisshh> new contrib video
[11:03] <humphreybc> yeah but it still has to be turned into flash, resized and embedded into the page by daker
[11:03] <humphreybc> if daker ever comes back
[11:04] <nisshh> oh really? shame, i was looking forward to seeing the new one
[11:05] <godbyk> well we can look at it after I convert it to flash.
[11:05] <nisshh> oooh goodies!
[11:07] <humphreybc> this WePad looks promising
[11:07] <ubuntujenkins> I have just seen the pictures as well
[11:07]  * humphreybc is uploading a third video to youtube 
[11:07] <ubuntujenkins> i can't wait, do you think ubuntu netbook remix will work on it?
[11:08] <humphreybc> maybe
[11:08] <humphreybc> not sure
[11:15] <ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: do you have any thoughts on the ppa? I would like to give people options to view it in other pdf views that they have installed and other langauges if they install other langauge packages. I was thinking of making a little program in the ubuntu-manual package then doing a package for each langauge pdf
[11:15] <ubuntujenkins> *viewers
[11:15] <humphreybc> i haven't seen the PPA yet
[11:15] <humphreybc> \link?
[11:16] <ubuntujenkins> https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntujenkins/+archive/ubuntu-manual
[11:16] <godbyk> Hey, ubuntujenkins.  03-ubuntu-start-firefox.png is wider than 1024.
[11:16] <ubuntujenkins> all it does at the moment is give you the pdf. and an icon in the menus
[11:16]  * ubuntujenkins looks
[11:16] <humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: can I try it?
[11:16] <ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: sure
[11:17] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: after I get this release stuff out of the way, I can help you write a script to detect the language, download the appropriate pdf, install it, and view it.
[11:17] <godbyk> Video's up: http://files.ubuntu-manual.org/videos/ump-team_640x360.html
[11:17] <godbyk> We'll have daker drop it into the site whenever he's around next.
[11:17] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: sure we can discuss that later. I will redo that screenshot now
[11:18] <humphreybc> you've all seen this video before
[11:18] <humphreybc> i just fixed some bugs
[11:18] <godbyk> humphreybc: you should really have someone edit your text before you render it to video. :)
[11:18] <humphreybc> what's wrong with my text?!
[11:18] <c7p> hello
[11:19] <ubuntujenkins> hello c7p
[11:19] <c7p> on the string 1008 https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1/+pots/ubuntu-manual/el/1008/+translate
[11:20] <godbyk> On the second 'slide', I'd use an em dash (or a properly spaced en dash).  It should be '170-page user guide'.
[11:20] <c7p> it says that the Browse is under the Control menu, but on my rythmbox its under the View
[11:21] <c7p> do you have browse under the Control menu ?
[11:23] <godbyk> c7p: I see Browse under the View menu.
[11:23] <ubuntujenkins> I also see it in the view menu
[11:23] <godbyk> guess I'll fix that in my english pdf, too. :)
[11:24] <c7p> so i don't have to report it as bug, you will fix it
[11:24] <c7p> right ?
[11:25] <humphreybc> godbyk: minor details, minor details
[11:25] <godbyk> It also says Browse, not Browser.
[11:25] <humphreybc> go back to your grammar nazi cave
[11:25] <godbyk> :)
[11:25] <godbyk> I'm not the one who has money riding on the perfection of the manual .:-P
[11:25] <humphreybc> do I have money riding on the perfection of the manual?
[11:26] <godbyk> humphreybc: so you say.
[11:26] <humphreybc> oh
[11:26] <humphreybc> right
[11:26] <humphreybc> the bet
[11:26] <humphreybc> heh
[11:26] <humphreybc> fingers crossed martin will forget :P
[11:27] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: pushed a new image
[11:27] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: thanks, I'll try it out.
[11:28] <godbyk> (I only caught it because latex complained that it was 30 pts too wide for the line.  it looks fine, but I'm checking into all the long lines to make sure they're not obvious.)
[11:28] <ubuntujenkins> its a good catch it must have been taken at the wrong resolution
[11:29] <godbyk> it's just slightly wider than it should be, too.  but 30 pts is quite a bit for latex not to be able to find a better line break. that's why it caught my eye.
[11:30] <humphreybc> where's the PPA Luke?
[11:30] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: now it's happy
[11:30] <ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntujenkins/+archive/ubuntu-manual
[11:30] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: yey \0/
[11:30] <humphreybc> cool
[11:32] <ubuntujenkins> its not that exciting really
[11:34] <godbyk> hey, ubuntujenkins.. figure 8.3 in the manual -- that's what the quickshot dialog should look like, too. :)
[11:35] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: yep thats what i was going to use :)
[11:35] <godbyk> (stumbled across that because the MacBook Pro section heading was too long.)
[11:36] <c7p> the manual is released in three days, right ?
[11:36] <godbyk> humphreybc: you'll be pleased to know that I fixed it so that URLs aren't split after the colon.  hopefully that doesn't make the line breaks worse.
[11:36] <godbyk> c7p: yep
[11:37] <c7p> godbyk: nice
[11:38] <godbyk> c7p: I'm trying to get all the final little edits in to the English version before I upload it to the book printing site.  http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/builds/ubuntu-manual-final-draft.pdf
[11:38] <godbyk> Let me know if you find any bugs.
[11:38] <c7p> ok ;)
[11:39] <c7p> the translated will be released on the same day or a little later ?
[11:39] <c7p> translated versions*
[11:39] <godbyk> c7p: they'll be released a little later. basically as they're completed.
[11:40] <c7p> nice
[11:40] <godbyk> I've just uploaded a new copy of the PDF.
[11:40] <godbyk> well, it's still uploading, I guess.
[11:40] <godbyk> okay, now it's up.
[11:42] <c7p> will we have a "meeting" to talk about the project and experience gained? No plans, tech detai etc.. Just chat with the members of UMP community.
[11:43] <godbyk> that'd be cool.
[11:44] <godbyk> nisshh: and I will be in the channel. so you can come party with us. :)
[11:44] <ubuntujenkins> which channel where and when?
[11:45] <nisshh> in here, sometime, dunno when
[11:45] <nisshh> on release day of course
[11:45] <godbyk> here. not sure what the official release time is.  humphreybc?
[11:45] <humphreybc> no idea, around 1200 UTC should be good
[11:46] <nisshh> iv heard from alot of people that it gets released around 1am UTC
[11:46] <godbyk> that's 0700 for me.. yuck. mornings suck. :)
[11:46] <humphreybc> nah it's more like 6pm UTC
[11:46] <nisshh> hehe
[11:46] <humphreybc> Ubuntu usually comes out at like 1800 UTC i think
[11:46] <humphreybc> but i'll find out the actual time at some point
[11:46] <ubuntujenkins> I might be around depends if i am awake
[11:46] <nisshh> we dont have to have it then
[11:47] <nisshh> we can have it later
[11:47] <nisshh> ill be at college then anyway
[11:48] <godbyk> right. maybe it'll just be an all-day event and people can stop by when they have time.
[11:48] <vish> humphreybc: does the quickshot logo need to be Ubuntu and the UMP unrelated  or.. ?
[11:49] <nisshh> godbyk: why do you always say what im about to say? :)
[11:49] <vish> s/the//
[11:49] <humphreybc> vish: no it should be unrelated to us
[11:49] <godbyk> nisshh: great minds... ;-)
[11:49] <vish> gotcha...
[11:49] <nisshh> hehe
[11:50] <nisshh> so i suppose the party is all day on the 29th
[11:50] <nisshh> sounds good
[11:54] <godbyk> works for me.
[11:59] <c7p> nice
[11:59] <c7p> brb
[12:54] <humphreybc> ubuntujenkins: the PPA is good! Could you have the text in the menu "Getting Started with Ubuntu" instead of "ubuntu-manual" ?
[12:55] <ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: sure it ca all be changed. I am working on showing people the one that matches their local
[12:55] <humphreybc> nice
[12:55] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk:  idea
[12:56] <ubuntujenkins> *'s
[12:56] <humphreybc> can we get it in the universe repo for maverick?
[12:56] <ubuntujenkins> back in a bit
[12:57] <ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: we can try
[12:57] <humphreybc> it'll be in the universe for maverick
[12:57] <ubuntujenkins> lol
[12:59] <thorwil> godbyk: tried lots of things, i can't reproduce the pdf issue starting from scratch
[13:01] <godbyk-android> Weird. Maybe reduce ours to a minimal example?
[13:02] <thorwil> godbyk-android: yeah, that's what i'll do now
[13:55] <semioticrobotic> 'morning all
[14:24] <humphreybc> morning Bryain!
[14:24] <humphreybc> Bryan, even
[14:24] <humphreybc> hey does anyone know of any half decent games for Linux?
[14:24] <humphreybc> like, first person shooters that aren't all alien
[14:28] <semioticrobotic> morning Benjamin
[14:28] <semioticrobotic> not much of a PC gamer, I'm afraid
[14:29] <semioticrobotic> but the Ubuntu UK podcast team is always reviewing one game or another
[14:29] <semioticrobotic> I'm sure their archives can serve as a starting point for recommendations
[14:29] <popey> we've never reviewed any games :)
[14:29] <humphreybc> hahaha
[14:29] <humphreybc> nice
[14:29] <humphreybc> popey: do you have "Ubuntu UK" on highlight?
[14:29] <popey> yes
[14:29] <semioticrobotic> popey: Ah, sorry.  My mistake.  :)
[14:30] <humphreybc> so if I did this
[14:30] <humphreybc> Ubuntu UK
[14:30] <humphreybc> Ubuntu UK
[14:30] <humphreybc> Ubuntu UK
[14:30] <humphreybc> would that keep notifying you?
[14:30] <humphreybc> :P
[14:30] <semioticrobotic> glad you popped in, popey.  gives me a chance to tell you how much I enjoy your show.
[14:31] <popey> awww, thanks semioticrobotic
[14:31] <popey> humphreybc: actually i dont have ubuntu uk
[14:31] <popey> it's "podcast" that brought me here
[14:31] <humphreybc> ah ha
[14:31] <popey> i do have uupc on hilight though
[14:32] <semioticrobotic> speaking of which ... nice interview this weekend, humphreybc
[14:33] <humphreybc> semioticrobotic: oh cheers, that's only half of it :\
[14:34] <semioticrobotic> ha!  yes, I could tell they performed a bit of editing
[14:34] <popey> yeah, it was good
[14:34] <semioticrobotic> but lots of good bits didn't hit the cutting room floor
[14:34] <humphreybc> we recorded the OMG! podcast on Sunday night, it went really well but then found out that Joey's end didn't record :(
[14:34] <semioticrobotic> ack!
[14:34] <humphreybc> semioticrobotic: They're sticking some in to the next episode
[14:34] <semioticrobotic> oh, great!
[14:34] <semioticrobotic> what topics?
[14:35] <humphreybc> Yeah so the plan was to have both local sound tracks, so we get best quality... but now we're basically have my local track and Joey remote... which is very much lo-fi. Not good at all. But we're pressing on with the release, and we will make sure it doesn't happen for next week's
[14:35] <humphreybc> semioticrobotic: not sure, I can't remember :P
[14:35] <semioticrobotic> haha ... well, then it will be a surprise
[14:35] <humphreybc> so I sound really good and then Joey sounds like he's stuck under some collapsed mine
[14:35] <semioticrobotic> fine with me
[14:35] <semioticrobotic> oh no
[14:36] <humphreybc> yeah :(
[14:36] <humphreybc> really, really disappointing. We also had tonnes of other problems like dropped skype calls and things
[14:36] <humphreybc> but we soldiered on... hopefully we don't get shot to bits
[14:36] <popey> it will :)
[14:37] <popey> thats pretty much what the original full circle podcast did
[14:37] <semioticrobotic> the FCP team pushed through a vacuum ruckus last episode ... I say, just publish it :)
[14:37] <humphreybc> it will get shot to bits, popey?
[14:37] <humphreybc> hopefully our really bad puns and hilarious analogies will pull through.... =S
[14:39] <semioticrobotic> a powerfully bad pun can rectify any amount of distortion
[14:40] <humphreybc> heh
[14:40] <humphreybc> and we have the coolest music ever
[14:40] <humphreybc> like, ever
[14:40] <humphreybc> EVER
[14:41] <humphreybc> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKFjWR7X5dU
[14:42] <semioticrobotic> that's going to be great
[14:45] <humphreybc> you guys wanna see something cool?
[14:45] <semioticrobotic> when don't we?
[14:45] <humphreybc> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SocXE_oeZ4
[14:47] <semioticrobotic> really nice ... what did you use to map the social graph?
[14:48] <humphreybc> not sure, Tommy Brunn emailed me the video
[14:48] <humphreybc> he told me what it was but i forget the name
[14:48] <humphreybc> i need to find out
[14:49] <semioticrobotic> yeah ... I wonder how he culled all that data
[14:49] <semioticrobotic> from launchpad?
[14:49] <humphreybc> I think the program does it
[14:49] <humphreybc> bonus points if you can spot yourself haha
[14:49] <semioticrobotic> oh, I tried!
[14:50] <semioticrobotic> but the text was a bit too small/fuzzy on this machine
[14:50] <humphreybc> I love the translation and screenshots folders
[14:50] <humphreybc> they're like flowers
[14:50] <semioticrobotic> will have to try later
[14:50] <semioticrobotic> yeah ... and they burst onto the scene powerfully
[14:50] <semioticrobotic> very fun to watch
[14:50] <humphreybc> yeah
[14:50] <humphreybc> we're like bees
[14:51] <humphreybc> bees in a hive
[14:51] <semioticrobotic> it also gives me a visual history of the project before I joined
[14:51] <humphreybc> I think Tommy has a slower version, that's 10 minutes long
[14:51] <humphreybc> where you can see in more detail
[14:51] <semioticrobotic> oh, neat
[14:51] <humphreybc> I'll get him to youtube it
[14:51] <semioticrobotic> I'm sure that file is too large to post to YouTube, but I'd love to see it some time
[14:51] <humphreybc> it's pretty wicked
[14:51] <semioticrobotic> cool
[14:51] <humphreybc> youtube allows up to like 3 GB
[14:51] <humphreybc> it'll be fine
[14:52] <semioticrobotic> oh wow
[14:52] <semioticrobotic> i had no idea
[14:52] <semioticrobotic> handy, though
[14:52] <semioticrobotic> yeah, definitely tell him to post the extended version
[14:53] <humphreybc> i'm watching it in slow mo
[14:54] <humphreybc> I see you bryan!
[14:54] <semioticrobotic> okay, benjamin.  take care
[14:54] <humphreybc> see ya :)
[14:54] <semioticrobotic> back ...
[14:54] <semioticrobotic> when do I pop into view?
[14:54] <semioticrobotic> I'll try again to spot myself
[14:55] <humphreybc> about 32 seconds
[14:55] <humphreybc> 37 seconds you're on the bottom left of the main circle
[14:55] <humphreybc> it would be awesome to have the slower version as my screensaver
[14:55] <humphreybc> or even real time....
[14:56] <humphreybc> that would be so cool
[14:56] <semioticrobotic> ha!  nice!
[14:56] <semioticrobotic> there I go ... zooming to the left
[14:56] <semioticrobotic> this computer doesn't  handle flash well at all
[14:56] <semioticrobotic> so it's choppy
[14:56] <semioticrobotic> but I could see well enough
[14:56] <semioticrobotic> very neat
[14:57] <humphreybc> heh, dutchie's just running around the entire branch
[14:57] <humphreybc> I need to find out what program it is
[14:58] <semioticrobotic> haha!  yeah
[14:58] <semioticrobotic> okay, I'd better prep my stuff for classes today
[14:58] <semioticrobotic> thanks for sharing, humphreybc
[14:58] <humphreybc> yeah from the branch
[14:59] <semioticrobotic> have a good one...
[15:02] <humphreybc> Ah ha!
[15:02] <humphreybc> it's called Gource
[15:03] <humphreybc> it's in the repos!
[15:06] <humphreybc> how do I get a log file of the branch?
[15:07] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: ping
[15:07] <ubuntujenkins> is godbyk awake humphreybc ?
[15:07] <humphreybc> nah
[15:07] <humphreybc> he'll be asleep
[15:08] <ubuntujenkins> ok i will leave him a message
[15:09] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: ref bug 570125 I think the user will say that 'sudo tlmgr --gui' will not work as their original post implies that they have the packages and not the stuff we have to use
[15:09] <manualbot> Launchpad bug 570125 in ubuntu-manual "No version of TeX Live was detected while texlive IS installed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/570125
[15:09] <ubuntujenkins> what you up to humphreybc ?
[15:10] <humphreybc> playing around with Gource :P
[15:10] <humphreybc> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SocXE_oeZ4
[15:13] <ubuntujenkins> wow how is that all generated
[15:13] <humphreybc> a program called "gource"
[15:13] <humphreybc> it's in the repos
[15:13] <humphreybc> command line app though
[15:13] <ubuntujenkins> does it take the bzr commits or something?
[15:13] <humphreybc> yeah
[15:14] <ubuntujenkins> crazy or what :-)
[15:14] <humphreybc> Tommy is going to make an extended version in more detail
[15:14] <ubuntujenkins> that is a wicked program
[16:18] <ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: wow you are still up.
[16:18] <humphreybc> heh, yeah
[16:19] <humphreybc> trying to find a creative commons alternative to "Time to Pretend" by MGMT
[16:19] <ubuntujenkins> good song
[16:19] <humphreybc> yeah
[16:19] <humphreybc> I want to use it in a UDS video
[16:21] <ubuntujenkins> you like you videos :)
[16:25] <humphreybc> :D
[16:25] <humphreybc> struggling to find something as awesome as Time to Pretend
[16:25] <ubuntujenkins> is all the stuff in jamendo cc?
[16:25] <humphreybc> most of it yeah
[16:25] <humphreybc> different kinds of CC
[16:26] <ubuntujenkins> there is allot if music to go thourgh
[16:29]  * humphreybc likes this music video
[16:29] <humphreybc> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fz2ZDeTYgTs
[16:29] <humphreybc> The Fratellis are cool
[16:30] <humphreybc> I think it's going to have to be Time to Pretend for what I want to do though
[16:30] <humphreybc> I wish I had a video camera though :(
[16:30] <ubuntujenkins> I haven't heard them in while
[16:31] <humphreybc> actually... they have cameras at UDS. I wonder if I can steal one for the week.
[16:35] <ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: can you pop a text file on your server with en_GB
[16:35] <ubuntujenkins> en_US
[16:35] <ubuntujenkins> gl
[16:35] <ubuntujenkins> es in it please
[16:35] <ubuntujenkins> I need to test reading it for the manual ppa thing
[16:36] <ubuntujenkins> en_GB
[16:36] <ubuntujenkins> en_US
[16:36] <ubuntujenkins> gl
[16:36] <ubuntujenkins> es
[16:36] <humphreybc> huh?
[16:36] <ubuntujenkins> makes more sense ^
[16:37] <ubuntujenkins> on your computer where ou paste us links to can you put a txt file with (see above) in . I am trying to read form a file that is on a server
[16:37] <ubuntujenkins> *you
[16:37] <ubuntujenkins> *text
[16:38] <ubuntujenkins> working on only pulling the the manual that is complete by reading the complete ones from a file
[16:38] <ubuntujenkins> if the file is remote it makes it easier to update
[16:40] <humphreybc> oh right
[16:40] <humphreybc> so what am I putting in the file?
[16:40] <ubuntujenkins> en_GB
[16:40] <ubuntujenkins> en_US
[16:40] <ubuntujenkins> gl
[16:40] <ubuntujenkins> es
[16:40] <ubuntujenkins> please :)
[16:40] <humphreybc> ok
[16:40] <humphreybc> call it...?
[16:41] <ubuntujenkins> manual_list will be fine it doesn't really matter
[16:41] <humphreybc> http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/manual_list
[16:42] <ubuntujenkins> thank you
[16:42] <ubuntujenkins> wow i wrote something that works first time :P
[16:43] <ubuntujenkins> no it doesn't ;(
[16:43] <humphreybc> hahaha
[16:43] <humphreybc> that was an emotional rollercoaster
[16:43] <humphreybc> yay! awh
[16:44] <ubuntujenkins> I pasted it in the wrong place and was still reading a local file
[16:44] <humphreybc> minor details
[16:46] <ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: to be really anoying can you add fr to the file please. then i can double check it
[16:46] <humphreybc> sure
[16:46] <humphreybc> done
[16:47] <ubuntujenkins> thanks, and it works \o/
[16:47] <humphreybc> yay!
[16:48] <humphreybc> bedtime for me i think
[16:48] <ubuntujenkins> night humphreybc
[16:48] <humphreybc> I need to knock off 4 python labs before I leave for UDS
[16:49] <humphreybc> so this weekend is gonna be me doing python :D
[16:49]  * humphreybc will be in Belgium in 12 days
[16:50] <humphreybc> night!
[16:50] <humphreybc> o/
[16:50] <ubuntujenkins> o/
[16:53] <ubuntujenkins> hemanth: you can set up branches https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntujenkins where ubuntujenkins is your name or set one up under the project you are working on. if you do that i will have a look, it will make more sense to me then
[16:54] <hemanth> sure
[17:05] <hemanth> ubuntujenkins, push is taking a long time, may be my ISP is clogged
[17:05] <hemanth> Unable to handle http code 502: Bad Gateway!
[17:06] <ubuntujenkins> hemanth: not much luck then. try and explain what you mean here.
[17:11] <hemanth> ubuntujenkins, created... one sec plz
[17:12] <hemanth> ubuntujenkins, bzr branch lp:~hemanth-hm/rfc/rfc-finder
[17:14] <ubuntujenkins> ok hemanth I have quickly open what are you trying to do? I will do my best to help
[17:16] <hemanth> ubuntujenkins, user types a value in the test area and hits the search button
[17:16] <hemanth> ubuntujenkins, i need to fetch that value and read http response later from the fetched value
[17:17] <ubuntujenkins> fetching the value can be done. by http resonse do you mean like 404 error etc
[17:17] <hemanth> ubuntujenkins, http part i can take care, this signal handling i'm new to; that http response must be displayed in the view port
[17:18] <hemanth> ubuntujenkins, the value may be anything, that is later on appended to an uri and i get that uri's response
[17:19] <ubuntujenkins> what would the the http resopnse that is needed to be displaied look like? a line of text?
[17:19] <hemanth> text
[17:19] <hemanth> yes a text block
[17:19] <ubuntujenkins> rigth i can do this, just depends if we have time
[17:21] <ubuntujenkins> I have dinner to go to and german lessions. ok first you have to call the window into the bin file. if you open the bin/rfc-search file
[17:21] <ubuntujenkins> do you have the quickshot branch?
[17:21] <hemanth> yes
[17:22] <hemanth> like on on_next_1_clicked in quickshot i need to define here right?
[17:22] <ubuntujenkins> basically yes but you also need to call the window and button etc into the file
[17:23] <hemanth> o, that must be done as
[17:24] <ubuntujenkins> so adding this http://paste.pocoo.org/show/206355/ to line 92, calls int he main window
[17:25] <hemanth> ok, then
[17:25] <ubuntujenkins> for the button you would add self.rfc_search_window.button1 = get("button1")
[17:26] <hemanth> that would get me the event?
[17:27] <ubuntujenkins> nope type your event and then add it under the button as a handler on clicked for the button. sou also need to call in self.rfc_search_window.entry1 = get("entry1")
[17:28] <ubuntujenkins> thats the entry box
[17:29] <hemanth> ok all this under the lines added at line 92 or in the method on_button1_clicked?
[17:29] <ubuntujenkins> under line 92. under the button you would add
[17:29] <ubuntujenkins> then when the button is pressed you would use x = self.urfc_search_window.entry1.get_text()
[17:30] <ubuntujenkins> also nope type your event and then add it under the button as a handler on clicked for the button goes in glade
[17:30] <hemanth> there i have added on click action as on_button1_clicked
[17:31] <ubuntujenkins> sounds good
[17:32] <hemanth> what must be the definition of on_button1_clicked? self.rfc_search_window.button1 = get("button1")and get("entry1")?
[17:32] <ubuntujenkins> no no need to add that there. doing it at the start means that it is all called into the file
[17:33] <ubuntujenkins> just add x = self.urfc_search_window.entry1.get_text() then ...
[17:33] <hemanth> ok
[17:34] <ubuntujenkins> print x
[17:34] <ubuntujenkins> that will show the value in the command line, fingers crossed
[17:36] <ubuntujenkins> does it work?
[17:37] <hemanth> gosh getting indentation error
[17:37] <ubuntujenkins> if you can't spot push it and i will see if i can
[17:39] <hemanth> its say in line 94, but in vi all seems to indented fine, anyone i have pushed it
[17:41] <ubuntujenkins> look at line 104 there is an tab
[17:43] <ubuntujenkins> hemanth: we have differen line numbers
[17:43] <hemanth> o!
[17:44] <hemanth> which line are you referring to ?
[17:45] <ubuntujenkins> you have added stuff where i said at least the right line number s but it is in the wrong place. let me paste bin some stuff
[17:46] <ubuntujenkins> look at line 106 in http://paste.pocoo.org/show/206360/ an line 93 -99 should be added
[17:46] <hemanth> o ho ok
[17:46] <ubuntujenkins> *106 to 108
[17:47] <hemanth> those lines which are to "<<<<<removed" must be in line?
[17:48] <hemanth> o got it
[17:48] <ubuntujenkins> aslo where you have def on_button1_clicked(self, button, data=None): that all needs to match the indentaion above
[17:49] <ubuntujenkins> are you indenting with tabs?
[17:49] <hemanth> i'm using a vim plugin for auto indent
[17:50] <ubuntujenkins> well it appears to be indenting using tabs, it should be four spaces.
[17:51] <ubuntujenkins> also where you have x = self.urfc_search_window.entry1.get_text() you need to delete the first u
[17:51] <hemanth> ubuntujenkins, fixed the tab opened it with geany, but got this error AttributeError: 'RfcSearchWindow' object has no attribute 'rfc_search_window'
[17:51] <ubuntujenkins> look up ^
[17:53] <hemanth>  x = self.rfc_search_window.entry1.get_text() u mean
[17:53] <ubuntujenkins> yes that is what it should read
[17:54] <hemanth> it says 'RfcSearchWindow' object has no attribute 'rfc_search_window'
[17:55] <ubuntujenkins> my section of that bit works http://paste.pocoo.org/show/206370/
[17:56] <hemanth> there error its throwing is at this line self.rfc_search_window.entry1 = get("entry1")
[17:56] <ubuntujenkins> have you got self.rfc_search_window.entry1 = get("entry1") at the top
[17:56] <ubuntujenkins> line 90 ish
[17:57] <hemanth> yup
[17:57] <hemanth> below the comment which reads #Uncomment the following code to read in preferences at start up.
[17:58] <ubuntujenkins> erm I have to go to dinner I will be back in 30 minutes or so this is my full file at the moment which works http://paste.pocoo.org/show/206372/ I will help when i get back
[17:59] <hemanth> sure thank you
[18:30] <ubuntujenkins> hemanth: I am back how is it going?
[18:31] <hemanth> ubuntujenkins, allz well :) finished the url fetch thinge also
[18:31] <hemanth> just need to put the data in the textview1
[18:32] <ubuntujenkins> ok, I have 20 minutes before i have to go to german. why ahev you used a textview ? I can add it to a label if that is any help
[18:33] <hemanth> can the data that has been fetched be put in that label?
[18:33] <ubuntujenkins> I can but it in a label not sure how to add it to a text view
[18:34] <hemanth> ok that is also fine, i have pushed the changes that i have made
[18:35] <ubuntujenkins> if you can change it to a label and push. What am i suppose to put in the search box? to give it its really purpose/use
[18:38] <hemanth> search box input will be rfc numbers
[18:39] <ubuntujenkins> I am getting tones of errors when i try www.bbc.co.uk :$ a google told me what rfc is
[18:39] <ubuntujenkins> now it works
[18:40] <hemanth> :)
[18:40] <ubuntujenkins> looking at the amount it returns chaneg the textview to scrolled window
[18:40] <ubuntujenkins> then in it add a vewiport and in that ass a label
[18:40] <ubuntujenkins> *add
[18:41] <hemanth> label for?
[18:41] <ubuntujenkins> the text to go in
[18:42] <hemanth> label upon a scrolled window
[18:42] <hemanth> ?
[18:43] <hemanth> done
[18:44] <ubuntujenkins> ok add self.rfc_search_window.label1 = get("label1") with the other lines changing label1 to the right name
[18:45] <ubuntujenkins> and after print html add self.rfc_search_window.label1.set_text(str(html)) replacing label1 with the right name
[18:46] <ubuntujenkins> you should then get a scroll able window which shows the search results
[18:47] <ubuntujenkins> irc has stopped working
[18:47] <ubuntujenkins> nope works again
[18:47] <hemanth> AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'set_text'
[18:49] <ubuntujenkins> push it and i will have a quick look
[18:51] <dutchie> what the hell was humphreybc going on about?
[18:51] <dutchie> 14:57 #ubuntu-manual: < humphreybc> heh, dutchie's just running around the entire branch
[18:52] <ubuntujenkins> ok i have to go to german but a working one exists here lp:~ubuntujenkins/+junk/rfc-finder see if you can work out what i did. I will be back in 2 hours. sorry i am so hit and miss on irc now that my letcures have started i am running about everywhere ( hemanth )
[18:52] <ubuntujenkins> dutchie: no idea wasn't here then might be something to do with http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SocXE_oeZ4
[18:52] <hemanth> ubuntujenkins, no problem thanks and good night o/
[18:53] <ubuntujenkins> no problem if you are around in 2 hours i can talk you though it all. or tomoorw
[18:53] <hemanth> tomo is better its 11.40pm here
[18:53] <dutchie> ubuntujenkins: aha, es könnte sein
[19:27] <dutchie> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+spec/custom-bug-form # any input on required info?
[19:27] <dutchie> I'm thinking section/chapter number, paragraph
[19:27] <dutchie> language
[19:29] <Daker> hi
[19:30] <dutchie> hi Daker
[19:48] <dutchie> Daker: are you doing your website work in the lp:ubuntu-manual-website branch now?
[19:48] <Daker_> no
[19:48] <vish> Daker: site updated? ;)
[19:50] <Daker> yes tonight
[20:01] <Daker> dutchie, yes
[20:03] <dutchie> Daker: also, would it be possible to make the branch a bit more public?
[20:04] <Daker> yes
[20:04] <Daker> a tea
[20:04] <Daker> team*
[20:04] <dutchie> great
[20:04] <dutchie> mind adding me when you've set it up so I can work on the custom bug form?
[20:05] <Daker> sure
[20:24] <Daker> dutchie, you will do it in php or python ?
[20:28] <dutchie> django
[20:28] <dutchie> (which is python)
[20:28] <Daker> o.O
[20:28] <Daker> good luck :D
[20:28] <dutchie> since python-launchpadlib already exists and is easy
[20:28] <Daker> yes
[20:32] <Daker> f*** i added a member by mistake
[20:33] <Daker> dutchie, your lp nickname
[20:35] <dutchie> jshholland
[20:35] <Daker> done
[20:36] <dutchie> Daker: you going to change the branch ownership to the new team then?
[20:37] <Daker> done
[20:38] <dutchie> you sure? https://code.edge.launchpad.net/~adnane002/ubuntu-manual-website/website says it's still owned by you
[20:39] <Daker> try now
[20:40] <dutchie> sweet, looks good
[20:40]  * dutchie starts hacking
[20:40] <Daker> fell free
[20:40] <dutchie> I'll stick it in its own directory
[20:41] <Daker> oki
[20:44] <dutchie> godbyk: ping
[20:44] <godbyk-android> dutchie: pong
[20:45] <godbyk-android> I'm just about to hop in the shower.
[20:46] <dutchie> godbyk-android: it can wait till after
[20:46] <godbyk-android> Okay, I'll be back in about half an hour.
[21:01] <dutchie> godbyk: actually, I think I should wait until I have actually written some code before I worry about how to deploy it
[21:17] <ubuntujenkins> hello al i am back
[21:17] <ubuntujenkins> how are we all
[21:18] <Daker> helo ubuntujenkins
[21:18] <Daker> hello*
[21:18] <dutchie> regretting leaving this big pile of chemistry till the night before it's due in
[21:19] <ubuntujenkins> hello Daker, and dutchie
[21:20] <ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: ping
[21:20] <hemanth> ubuntujenkins, hi me still awake! as the text area and button are on hpanel they can be resized which hampers the look, so trying to fix it
[21:20] <ubuntujenkins> hemanth: hello where is the latest branch?
[21:21] <hemanth> ubuntujenkins, same as the previous, branch is not updated, your branch is working but the issue is i have used hpanel and vpanel instead of box
[21:22] <hemanth> ubuntujenkins, if box is used the area of separation makes the button very bad
[21:23] <hemanth> ubuntujenkins, if dialogue box is used, quickly can't notice it
[21:24] <ubuntujenkins> sorry i don't follow if dialogue box is used, quickly can't notice it
[21:25] <hemanth> ubuntujenkins, yes the code is looking for a window not a dialogue box
[21:26] <ubuntujenkins> so what do you want in a dailogue box?
[21:26] <hemanth> ubuntujenkins, dialog-vbox i meant
[21:27] <ubuntujenkins> sorry I don't follow, It may be beacuse i have been listening to german for the last two hours. we cant everything to look and stay the same size basically?
[21:27] <ubuntujenkins> *want not cant
[21:28] <hemanth> ubuntujenkins, i will send a screenshot wait
[21:28] <ubuntujenkins> ok good, sorry if i ma being silly not very focused today
[21:28] <godbyk> I'm back now.
[21:28] <ubuntujenkins> hello godbyk
[21:29] <godbyk> dutchie: What's up?
[21:29] <dutchie> godbyk: was looking at best way to deploy the nascent bug form, but I decided to make it work locally first
[21:30] <godbyk> k
[21:30] <hemanth> ubuntujenkins, DDC send failed
[21:31] <ubuntujenkins> hemanth: it never works for me i think its the uni network.  stick it on image bin http://imagebin.org/index.php?page=add
[21:32] <hemanth> ubuntujenkins,http://imagebin.org/94540
[21:32] <ubuntujenkins> so we want something like that?
[21:32] <hemanth> yup
[21:33] <hemanth> so that the button and text area are fixed at a position
[21:33] <ubuntujenkins> I think you need to change your vspaned1 and hpaned1 to horisontal and vertical boxes
[21:34] <hemanth> yup, if changed they don't look as it was supposed to, cos each col has a fixed width
[21:37] <ubuntujenkins> if you sepcify the height and width requests right on the common tab you should get it looking right
[21:38] <ubuntujenkins> you will also need to change it. glade doesn't show the winoe exactly as it appears
[21:38] <ubuntujenkins> change the to hbox etc
[21:41] <hemanth> ubuntujenkins, the column width is unalterable, even on setting the request width, the window width changes but not the vbox
[21:42] <ubuntujenkins> hemanth: adjusting the settings correctly i can get http://imagebin.org/94544
[21:43] <ubuntujenkins> how ever in glade it shows as http://imagebin.org/94545
[21:44] <hemanth> ubuntujenkins, ha, got it add a vbox, then a label in it and then expanded the label phew
[21:45] <ubuntujenkins> I didn't use a label there is anlignment box and all i did was specifiy the button size correctly not the align ment one
[21:46] <ubuntujenkins> its a square with <- and a vertical <- on it
[21:46] <hemanth> ubuntujenkins,o ok, i found a way to update text view, my_textview.get_buffer().set_text("my text")
[21:46] <ubuntujenkins> I have just knotied ricksepencer is very helpfull
[21:47] <hemanth> yup
[21:47] <ubuntujenkins> that channel is the best, good quality people always get back to you
[21:48] <hemanth> ya happy for that, we will try that or stick to label, how do we decided which is a better practice ?
[21:49] <ubuntujenkins> its up to you which one you prefer and how you want it to appear as far as i know
[21:50] <hemanth> ok phew, 2.30 am here i will finish it and sleep
[21:50] <godbyk> hey, Daker. did you move the website branch?
[21:50] <dutchie> has it broken everything?
[21:50] <Daker> oh fu**
[21:50] <Daker> yes
[21:50] <Daker> sorry
[21:50] <dutchie> that's a bit rubbish if it has
[21:51] <godbyk> well, the auto-update cronjob is yelling at me that it can't find that branch.
[21:51] <dutchie> Daker: not your fault, blame lp
[21:51] <dutchie> godbyk: is it not pointing at lp:ubuntu-manual-website?
[21:51] <dutchie> or did it get turned into one with ~adnane001 in it?
[21:51] <dutchie> s/1/2/
[21:52] <godbyk> bzr: ERROR: Not a branch: "bzr+ssh://bazaar.launchpad.net/~adnane002/ubuntu-manual-website/website/".
[21:52] <Daker> yes
[21:52] <Daker> we created a team & we got the branch public
[21:52] <godbyk> cool.
[21:52] <godbyk> so.. do I need to just re-branch?
[21:53] <Daker> yes
[21:53] <Daker> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-website
[21:53] <dutchie> I reckon you should be able to do bzr pull --remember lp:ubuntu-manual-remember
[21:53] <Daker> https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual-website/ubuntu-manual-website/website
[21:53] <dutchie> mm, bagel
[21:54] <ubuntujenkins> dutchie: where is the team? can i join? I have no imideat interest but the quickshot stuff crosses over a bit
[21:54] <ubuntujenkins> * Daker ^
[21:54] <Daker> one sec
[21:54] <dutchie> ubuntujenkins: http://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual-website
[21:55] <Daker> i created a ML too
[21:55] <Daker> ubuntu-manual-website@lists.launchpad.net
[21:55] <godbyk> so do the pull --remember on the existing branch?
[21:56] <dutchie> should work
[21:56] <Daker> ubuntujenkins, done
[21:56] <godbyk> do I need the -remember on the lp name?
[21:56] <ubuntujenkins> thansk Daker
[21:56] <dutchie> godbyk: what do you mean "on"?
[21:57] <dutchie> oh, no
[21:57] <dutchie> brain fart
[21:57] <godbyk> ok
[21:58] <godbyk> that worked.
[21:58] <godbyk> should I add --remember to the update script?
[21:59] <dutchie> no
[21:59] <dutchie> should Just Work (TM)
[21:59] <godbyk> cool
[21:59] <godbyk> thanks
[21:59] <dutchie> the --remember makes bzr remember ;)
[21:59] <godbyk> noted. :)
[21:59] <Daker> brb
[22:00] <godbyk> dutchie: did the translations ever get sorted? or is po4a still giving us grief?
[22:00] <dutchie> haven't tried again
[22:00] <godbyk> k
[22:00]  * dutchie tries now
[22:00] <dutchie> I have too much to do :(
[22:01] <dutchie> ooh, it's working
[22:01] <godbyk> it is?  wtf?  what's different about today?
[22:02] <dutchie> phase of moon?
[22:02] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: did you get my message about bug 570125 ?
[22:02] <manualbot> Launchpad bug 570125 in ubuntu-manual "No version of TeX Live was detected while texlive IS installed" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/570125
[22:02] <godbyk> what about it?
[22:03] <ubuntujenkins> looking at it the user is using the packages not the stuff we use
[22:04] <godbyk> Ah, I see what you mean.
[22:04] <godbyk> Do you think the installation instructions for TL aren't prominent enough?
[22:04] <ubuntujenkins> thats their problem, I didn't want to add another person in to the bug and confuse things
[22:04] <godbyk> Or do some people just not read at all before diving in? :)
[22:04] <ubuntujenkins> make the packages dont work bolder?
[22:05] <ubuntujenkins> not reading it could be part of it
[22:05] <dutchie> would be nice if the packages worked
[22:05] <godbyk> To be fair, the packages may actually work today.  I gave up on them because they didn't work a few months ago when we needed them to.
[22:06] <godbyk> (But I'm not holding my breath.)
[22:06] <dutchie> if they don't, it may be worth putting a ppa on the todo list
[22:06] <ubuntujenkins> I haven't tried and don't want to I am thinking on how to do the ppa
[22:06] <godbyk> And my set up is a bit more bleeding edge anyway.  As I'm running with a few of the packages from their VCSs.
[22:07] <ubuntujenkins> possibly a dummy package that just wraps up the install script thing
[22:07] <dutchie> you could probably just nab the debian/ dir out of stock lucid TL and update the rest
[22:07] <godbyk> Yeah, there is a PPA that has/had lucid TL packages in them, but they were incomplete when I looked back in Jan/Feb.
[22:07] <dutchie> see http://castrojo.wordpress.com/2009/08/21/making-daily-builds/
[22:07] <godbyk> The problem is that Debian/Ubuntu don't want to keep updating things as they're released upstream (because they'd be releasing new updates to those huge texlive-* packages every day).
[22:08] <ubuntujenkins> daily builds are easy :)
[22:08] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: how do i update the stuff i ma usingas i used the script?
[22:08] <godbyk> the TL updates?
[22:09] <ubuntujenkins> yes
[22:09] <godbyk> the easiest way is to 'apt-get install perl-tk' first, then run 'sudo tlmgr --gui'.
[22:09] <hemanth> ubuntujenkins, i had used hudson for CI
[22:09] <godbyk> from the File menu (or whatever the first menu is), select the repository. this will update the index.
[22:09] <godbyk> then select 'updates' from the first set up options.
[22:09] <godbyk> then click 'update all' at the bottom.
[22:10] <godbyk> you may have to do it a couple times as the first update may be an update for tlmgr itself (which requires a restart).
[22:10]  * dutchie braces himself for translator complaints and pushes
[22:10] <ubuntujenkins> ok thanks, if they are updating it this offten a ppa might not be so easy to keep it uptodate
[22:11]  * ubuntujenkins passes dutchie a shield 
[22:11] <dutchie> this pile of chemistry questions is not getting any smaller
[22:12] <daker> guys i need keywords for the website
[22:12] <dutchie> ubuntu, manual, errr...
[22:12] <ubuntujenkins> ubuntu and manual
[22:13] <ubuntujenkins> dutchie: beat me
[22:13] <daker> others
[22:13] <daker> lucid, 10.04, lynx, lucid lynx...
[22:14] <godbyk> dutchie: did you push .po files, too? does launchpad detect those or ignore them?
[22:14] <dutchie> it scans them and imports any changes, and yes
[22:14] <dutchie> though most of it will be annoying format changes
[22:14] <godbyk> daker: help, documentation, book, pdf, ebook
[22:15] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: I see no updates and get this in the terminal http://paste.ubuntu.com/423012/
[22:15] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: did the window pop up? did you click on anything?
[22:16] <godbyk> dutchie: we probably don't want to update the .po files if they're going to overwrite the work translators have done in launchpad since the previous update.
[22:16] <ubuntujenkins> the window showed i followed your instructions and thats what i was left with and a window showing nothing new
[22:17] <dutchie> godbyk: lp's clever enough not to do that
[22:17] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: okay, so you went to the tlmgr menu and clicked on 'load default repository: <URL>"?
[22:18] <godbyk> dutchie: gotcha.  though I'm learning to doubt launchpad's alleged cleverness. :)
[22:18]  * dutchie thinks "sudo tlmgr update --all" would be quicker
[22:18] <dutchie> godbyk: yeah, true
[22:18] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk:  doh missed that sorry :(
[22:18] <dutchie> never been a problem before though
[22:18] <godbyk> dutchie: it probably would be, yeah.  I just like to see what's being updated first.
[22:19] <godbyk> dutchie: and I wanted to make sure he actually had a repo set.  (sometimes you have to run it once to set the repo)
[22:19] <dutchie> fair enough
[22:21] <ubuntujenkins> hmm godbyk if we could package the install-tl script and display it for people to configure would that be best?
[22:22] <ubuntujenkins>  /dispay what we see when we install it
[22:22] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: hmm.. well, we'd want to modify the script in that case because we can just have the .deb depend on the other debs (instead of having install-pkgs.sh install them afterward).
[22:22] <godbyk> oh, wait.. you mean install-tl.
[22:22] <godbyk> sorry.
[22:22] <godbyk> maybe.
[22:23] <godbyk> we'll have to look into it.
[22:23] <ubuntujenkins> I think that is the simplest option, we could try to configure the script to auto install the required stuff for us.
[22:24] <ubuntujenkins> how it is updated if you needed to use a new function i am not sure
[22:24] <daker> guys you are talking about ?
[22:25] <godbyk> daker: we were just discussing ways to make it easier for people to install tex live 2009.
[22:25] <godbyk> daker: how's the website coming along?
[22:26] <ubuntujenkins> ok another idea make a package that we update its dependencies if we need to add a new part,
[22:27] <daker> give me a few minutes pls
[22:27] <ubuntujenkins> a "dummy" package
[22:27] <daker> brb
[22:28] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: do you know where i can get the texlive source
[22:29] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: look around tug.org/texlive
[22:34] <ubuntujenkins> I quote the control file "This metapackage provides a decent selection of the TeX Live packages
[22:34] <ubuntujenkins>  which should suffice for the most common tasks."
[22:35] <ubuntujenkins> and a read me "Packaging TeX Live for Debian is a huge task. Development is done in
[22:35] <ubuntujenkins> a very specific layout and source packages are generated from that."
[22:37] <godbyk> yeah.
[22:37] <godbyk> I know.
[22:37] <ubuntujenkins> his could be easier said than done. :)
[22:37] <ubuntujenkins> *this
[22:38] <godbyk> an alternative may be to package each TL source package as its own deb file, but that introduces a lot of overhead
[22:39] <ubuntujenkins> that could wrk fine just need to work out how to convert it all to a deb file
[22:40] <godbyk> automatically, if possible.
[22:40] <ubuntujenkins> +1 to that
[22:41] <ubuntujenkins> hmm this looks intersting "The Debian TeXLive repository does not contain the actual sources,
[22:41] <ubuntujenkins> only the files needed to create Debian packages from them.  You have
[22:41] <ubuntujenkins> to get the sources separately.
[22:41] <ubuntujenkins> "
[22:48] <dutchie> what happened to the old bug reporting form?
[22:49] <ubuntujenkins> lost under the pile of chemistry?
[22:49] <dutchie> chemistry's all done now \o/
[22:49] <dutchie> the one which fed into a google doc
[22:50] <ubuntujenkins> not sure don't ahev it bookmarked
[22:51] <dutchie> godbyk might know
[22:51] <godbyk> I dunno.  If it's not there, you'd have to ask daker. The google spreadsheet/form still exists.
[22:51] <dutchie> well, the fields are all I need really
[22:51] <dutchie> do you have a url?
[22:51] <godbyk> docs.ubuntu-manual.org
[22:51] <dutchie> dank u wel
[22:52] <godbyk> how's that differ from 'danke'?
[22:53]  * godbyk really should just learn german at some point and be done with it.
[22:53] <dutchie> that was dutch
[22:53] <godbyk> aha.
[22:53] <godbyk> that'd be the difference then. :)
[22:53] <ubuntujenkins> ok how do i convert http://svn.debian.org/wsvn/debian-tex/texlive2009/#_texlive2009_ to an svn address . I am unexpericnecnced with svn
[22:55] <godbyk> not sure.
[22:55] <godbyk> it may not translate directly.
[23:07] <daker> dutchie, yes it still exists
[23:07] <daker> but it's hided
[23:07] <dutchie> it's fine, the docs link godbyk gave was enogh
[23:07] <dutchie> enough*
[23:08] <godbyk> daker: I'm probably going to have you create an 'errata' page sometime soon, too.  It will contain a list of bugs that have been reported against the printed edition and also link to the bug reporting form.
[23:09] <daker> oki
[23:10] <godbyk> daker: what are you working on at the moment?
[23:11] <daker> i just pushed my work, iam waiting for the update
[23:12] <godbyk> daker: let me know if the update does happen.. I may still have to fiddle with the update script to make sure it's pulling from the new repository location.
[23:14] <dutchie> \o/ Typing out language codes is Fun
[23:14] <daker> it doesn't work godbyk
[23:15] <godbyk> daker: are you pushing to the right branch?  I'm not seeing an update in launchpad yet: https://code.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-website
[23:15] <godbyk> dutchie: what're you typing language codes for?
[23:16] <dutchie> the language selection for the bug form
[23:16] <godbyk> ah. yay.
[23:16] <godbyk> the languages should be translated to their native names, too. just for added challenge.
[23:16] <godbyk> (and the form should get translated as well at some point.)
[23:16] <dutchie> there is an i18n framework in django somewhere
[23:17] <dutchie> not used it though
[23:17] <godbyk> cool
[23:17] <dutchie> languages are in english on the english version though
[23:17] <godbyk> dutchie: we also need to find a way so that the translators can translate some semi-arbitrary strings.
[23:17] <godbyk> I've got some that won't show in the .tex files that should be translated.
[23:18] <daker> godbyk, i thinks you are right
[23:18] <dutchie> when did we get an esperanto translation?
[23:18] <dutchie> blimey
[23:21] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: in this sentence "Note that the blacklist: statements (see below) are taking action here, too,
[23:21] <ubuntujenkins> so that blacklisted files and tpms are NOT included in the .orig.tar.gz." is tpms a latex thing? or am i to tired?
[23:22] <godbyk> dutchie: Yeah, I think it'd be awesome to see Esperanto, Latin, and Ancient Greek.  Unfortunately, most those only have a single string translated.
[23:22] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: never heard of tpm before.
[23:23] <dutchie> ancient greek is listed as length 1647, untranslated 1646
[23:23] <dutchie> so one string done :)
[23:23] <ubuntujenkins> fair enough godbyk I thought it was a typo for tmp but it is everywhere
[23:23] <godbyk> Whew! 1 down, 1646 to go!
[23:23] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: maybe 'tex package manager' or something weird?
[23:23] <godbyk> I haven't dived into the inner workings of the tex live stuff much.
[23:24] <ubuntujenkins> hmm good idea, how do i use find to find files that have the work blacklist in there name?
[23:26] <godbyk> no clue there, either.
[23:26] <godbyk> you're in uncharted territory, my friend.
[23:29] <ubuntujenkins> I THINK all i have to do is work out what bit means not all of the texlive stuff is pulled into the packages and i MIGHT have it
[23:29] <dutchie> has anyone ever even heard of Marathi?
[23:29] <godbyk> dutchie: yeah, I had to look it (and some other languages) up to get latex working with 'em.
[23:30] <godbyk> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marathi_language
[23:30] <dutchie> 15th most spoken language in the world
[23:30] <dutchie> learn something new every day
[23:30] <godbyk> Yep.
[23:31] <godbyk> Some time after the release, we'll have to gather up a bunch of the translators and talk about how we can improve this whole translation process.
[23:31] <dutchie> yeah
[23:32] <dutchie> though I suspect the main point will be "Stop losing all our hard work"
[23:32] <godbyk> Right.
[23:32] <godbyk> I'm not sure where it keeps disappearing to, nor why.
[23:33] <dutchie> me neithe
[23:33] <dutchie> r
[23:41] <daker> someone should approve this https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+spec/wiki-migration
[23:41] <dutchie> hmm
[23:42] <dutchie> anybody know what zh_CH is?
[23:42] <ubuntujenkins> dutchie: yes hang on.........
[23:42] <daker> zh_CN => Chinese Simplified
[23:42] <ubuntujenkins> Chinese (Simplified) http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/ is useful
[23:42] <daker> zh_TW => Chinese Traditional
[23:43] <dutchie> ah, just Chinese
[23:46] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk:  thought on e-mailing the debian tex maintainers list for help?
[23:46] <ubuntujenkins> *thoughts
[23:47] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: you could.  they'd probably tell you why they chose not to go the route you want to go or something. I don't know what to expect. you can try, though.
[23:48] <ubuntujenkins> I might gie it a try when i am more awake i am going to ask in some channels that #debian have suggested
[23:52]  * ubuntujenkins hopes no one shouts at him for asking in the wrong place on irc
[23:58] <dutchie> time for bed
[23:58] <dutchie> night
[23:58] <ubuntujenkins> night dutchie