[07:21] <dholbach> good morning
[07:38] <dholbach> nigelbabu: I'll blog about patch day lite now - I hope we can invite a couple more people :)
[13:00] <dholbach> nigelbabu: how's the review day coming on?
[13:46] <dholbach> nigelbabu: what would I do with a bug like https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rhythmbox/+bug/548851?
[13:47] <ubot3> Malone bug 548851 in rhythmbox "IM Status plugin does not reset status message on end playback." [Low,Fix committed]
[13:47] <dholbach> the patch is fixed upstream
[13:47] <dholbach> but won't go into lucid because it's frozen and stuff
[13:48] <nigelbabu> sorry, was stuck at work.  Just got back.
[13:48] <nigelbabu> dholbach: ^
[13:49] <nigelbabu> for that we could mark it fix committed and milestone for late I suppose :/
[13:49] <nigelbabu> I dunno of anything else we could do
[13:50] <dholbach> nigelbabu: the problem is: it'll stay on the patch list forever
[13:50] <dholbach> or at least until somebody decides to integrate it
[13:50] <nigelbabu> generally I keep track of those bugs when I run into them upload them or ping someone who cares about the package
[13:52] <dholbach> yeah, but it means that it will stay on the "TODO list" for others
[13:52] <nigelbabu> do we upload a debdiff and subscribe sponsors in that case?
[13:52] <dholbach> or I could mark it as patch-accepted-upstream
[13:52] <dholbach> that'd be sensible
[13:52] <nigelbabu> wait, isn't that done?
[13:53] <dholbach> nope
[13:53]  * dholbach does that
[13:55] <dholbach> nigelbabu: and we should probably link to information about how to test and review a patch :)
[13:56] <nigelbabu> dholbach: I shuold probably write it.
[13:57] <dholbach> I'm sure there's a bunch of stuff on the wiki that could help explain things
[13:57] <nigelbabu> I'll hunt and add those stuff tomorrow.
[13:57] <dholbach> great
[13:58]  * dholbach checks a couple more bug reports to get a feel for the process
[13:59] <nigelbabu> dholbach: any idea why the patch review mailing list doesn't contain any action done on the bug report?
[13:59] <nigelbabu> only the patch tag being added comes up
[13:59] <nigelbabu> if everything was coming on the M/L I could keep track of who's helping out
[14:00] <dholbach> I have no idea
[14:01] <dholbach> maybe bdmurray knows
[14:01] <nigelbabu> hm, I'll ask him later today :)
[14:03] <dholbach> maybe we should also add a link to the bugs that are patch-accepted-* with some explanation how to get stuff accepted in the distro
[14:03] <dholbach> nigelbabu: what do you think?
[14:03] <nigelbabu> like a standard reply.  Makes sense.
[14:03] <dholbach> nigelbabu: so we have a couple of different working lists
[14:03] <dholbach> nigelbabu: oh, I meant on the wiki
[14:03] <nigelbabu> But I was also thinking adding that as a report to the overview I was making
[14:04] <nigelbabu> so people who want to have a headstart with development can gelp :)
[14:04] <nigelbabu> help rather
[14:04] <dholbach> I guess it makes sense to give it more exposure in different ways
[14:04] <dholbach> I'll add something to the wiki about the patch-accepted-* bugs
[14:07] <nigelbabu> dholbach: I had a look at the motu wiki and how it started off, it looks hopeful how small they started :)
[14:12] <nigelbabu> Ciemon: thanks for the edit. :)
[14:12] <nigelbabu> I was supposed to add that quite a long time back and forgot
[14:16] <Ciemon> :)
[14:16] <Ciemon> next time you ask for people to check things I'll read rather than skim
[14:16] <Ciemon> mind you, the more I do this the more I find I need to do more!
[14:16] <nigelbabu> haha
[14:17] <nigelbabu> Ciemon: how are you finding the workflow?
[14:17] <nigelbabu> i.e. from the perspective of someone who's seeing it for the first time..
[14:17] <Ciemon> Seems to be fine.. my stumbling block is over feeding upstream, it's something I've not done, and tbh, not looked into
[14:18] <Ciemon> I must this week
[14:18] <Ciemon> As I have a couple of bugs line up for Maverick that need it
[14:19] <nigelbabu> ah, you can always ask the #ubuntu-bugs folks for help if you get stuck there
[14:19] <Ciemon> thanks
[14:19] <dholbach> nigelbabu: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReviewersTeam/GettingInvolved?action=diff&rev2=16&rev1=15
[14:19] <nigelbabu> dont get scared at the number of replies.  Too many helpful folks there :)
[14:20] <Ciemon> This is an interesting line: " If the change is significant enough to be fixed in Ubuntu, get the patch uploaded"
[14:20] <nigelbabu> dholbach: ROCK!!
[14:21] <nigelbabu> Ciemon: look at ^ see if clears your worries?
[14:22] <Ciemon> it does to a point, but I think that you/Daniel may need to define "important bug"
[14:23] <Ciemon> without a definition, all bugs are important
[14:24] <nigelbabu> I think the https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Importance high and critical fall under important
[14:26] <nigelbabu> Do we have any documention about testing patches?
[14:26] <nigelbabu> I dont find any
[14:26] <dholbach> Bugs/Importance is a good idea
[14:27] <dholbach> and the classification in StableReleaseUpdates probably too
[14:27] <nigelbabu> I'll add to wiki
[14:27] <Ciemon> but it's left to individual interpretation as to importance
[14:27] <Ciemon> So.. I'm not part of UbuntuBugControl.. and I can't change importance
[14:28] <Ciemon> but I can review
[14:28] <Ciemon> so, you probably need to use the levels to indicate which bugs are at the level required to go to Ubuntu without upstream acknowledgement
[14:28] <nigelbabu> you just pop by in #ubuntu-bugs and caks someone to set it for you :)
[14:28] <nigelbabu> ask rather
[14:29] <nigelbabu> thats the problem.  We're not sure.  It varies
[14:29] <Ciemon> :D
[14:29] <nigelbabu> some patches are important, but we'd rather have upstream comment on it at least
[14:30] <Ciemon> I'd suggest that Critical, High and Medium need to go into Ubuntu straight away
[14:30] <Ciemon> the others "could" wait
[14:31] <Ciemon> anyway.. I'm waaay out of my league here
[14:31] <nigelbabu> some times, upstream makes some comment about it.
[14:31] <nigelbabu> I'm hesitant to therefore accept the Medium ones in immediately
[14:31] <Ciemon> and keeping you from work
[14:31] <nigelbabu> My work is this today.
[14:31] <nigelbabu> Getfeedback about the review guide.
[14:32] <Ciemon> ok, well, just need to do a bit of work and I'll be back
[14:36] <dholbach> Ciemon: there's no way all the Medium bugs can go into Ubuntu straight-away
[14:37] <dholbach> Ciemon: there's freeze times, stable release updates need extensive testing
[14:37] <dholbach> have a look how many bugs are "medium"
[14:38] <dholbach> and even if patches looks it obviously fixes the issue, it might still break other stuff
[14:41] <dholbach> Ciemon: bug 548851 is an example for that
[14:41] <ubot3> Malone bug 548851 in rhythmbox "IM Status plugin does not reset status message on end playback." [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/548851
[14:41] <dholbach> oh sorry, that's "Low" already :)
[14:43] <dholbach> it'd be nice to get as many fixes in as possible, but because of release schedule decisions we need to draw a line
[14:44] <dholbach> otherwise you'd keep spinning new images and people would need to test them, you'd delay the release, etc.
[14:44] <dholbach> and you'd probably always keep working on the same release
[14:44] <dholbach> and as nigelbabu said: it's good to get the ACK of upstream
[14:45] <dholbach> because if upstream (who are usually more experienced - it's code they wrote) decide to go with a different solution it might mean that we need to maintain the side-effects of our solution for 18 months to 5 years (depending on what kind of release it is)
[14:48] <Ciemon> dholbach: thanks for helping my understanding. The reason I went for Medium and above is, from Medium: "A bug that has a moderate impact on a core application."
[14:48] <Ciemon> whereas Low "can be easily worked around"
[14:48] <dholbach> Ciemon: yeah, from that viewpoint it definitely makes sense
[14:49] <Ciemon> As I've only being doing this for 3 weeks I only have these docs to go from, rather than experience, which could be a good thing :)
[14:50] <dholbach> Ciemon: I guess Medium is used in a lot of cases where it probably shouldn't :)
[14:50] <Ciemon> ahhhh! Now we come to it.
[14:50] <dholbach> :-)
[14:50] <Ciemon> :)
[14:50] <dholbach> nigelbabu: what do you think about making GettingInvolved more of a "you might want to check these pages out" and "this is what we do" page?
[14:51] <dholbach> nigelbabu: the page is growing and growing (which is good) and contains like all the process documents :)
[14:51] <dholbach> and todo lists
[14:51] <nigelbabu> and making the review guide separate?
[14:52] <dholbach> it was an idea I just had, right now I'm adding more stuff to it :)
[14:52] <nigelbabu> I had that idea long back, but I didn't want to break everyone linking to it.
[14:53] <Ciemon> it's a great page
[14:53] <nigelbabu> Either we can work on a new page and then put it there.
[14:53] <nigelbabu> Or we can do it after patch day
[14:53] <dholbach> yeah, maybe let's just keep it on the radar until later on
[14:54] <nigelbabu> I'll make a separate page in a sandbox and we can may be flip at some point
[14:56] <dholbach> just added a link to all the bugs with patches that were accepted in debian or upstream else already
[14:57] <dholbach> might be a nice working list for either SRUs or maverick
[14:57] <nigelbabu> a query right?
[14:58] <dholbach> yep
[14:58] <nigelbabu> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ReviewersTeam/KnowledgeBase#Tag%20Query
[14:58] <nigelbabu> but we could make it part of getting started
[14:58] <nigelbabu> like how you could package stuff
[14:59] <dholbach> I added it to the "Inclusion in Ubuntu" paragraph
[15:00] <nigelbabu> :)
[15:11] <nigelbabu> dholbach: may be, just may be, we can turn our landing page to different types of ways folks can help reviews team
[15:11] <dholbach> nigelbabu: yeah, why not
[15:12] <nigelbabu> (a) triage patches, (b) pacakges stuff
[15:12] <nigelbabu> so we can have new or prospective MOTU to review team to package stuff
[15:15] <Ciemon> is there a page showing a clearly mapped path for newbie to motu?
[15:16] <dholbach> not yet, but important ingredients are all linked from https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/GettingStarted
[15:16] <Ciemon> fine, just thought I'd ask :)
[15:18] <dholbach> what makes it hopefully a bit "easier" is striving for doing stuff in Ubuntu and making the world a better place for millions of users and learning something new, you enjoy
[15:19] <dholbach> so joining a team or getting a badge in launchpad it not the central interest :)
[15:22] <nigelbabu> Its like karma, after the first excitement
[15:22] <nigelbabu> it wras off
[15:23] <nigelbabu> then all you think off is getting things fixed and not badges or how much karma you get for it
[15:24] <maco> Ciemon: closest i can think is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDevelopers?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=ubuntu-developers6.png
[15:37] <Ciemon> thanks maco
[15:38] <Ciemon> we're going to talk about all of this on the podcast tonight (ubuntu uk)
[15:38] <maco> that chart leaves out per package uploaders thoug
[15:38] <maco> and the new stuff with packagesets
[15:39] <maco> because now you can be a kubuntu-dev and have access to all the kde packages but not be a core dev
[15:48] <vish> nigelbabu: how did you change the topic here? [/me forgot]
[16:00] <Ciemon> vish: use /topic "some text"
[16:01] <vish> Ciemon: that doesnt work in all channels , and not here though
[16:03] <Ciemon> vish: it does, but you need to be a channel op to make changes.
[16:11] <vish> Ciemon: yup , but i dont think nigelbabu was the op here.. hence was wondering how  :)
[16:20] <nigelbabu> vish: /msg chanserv help
[16:20] <nigelbabu> there is an option there
[16:21] <nigelbabu> maco: package sets would be just a stand-alone item
[16:40] <nigelbabu> Vish: what are you doing?
[16:41] <Vish> baaah! :s
[16:41] <nigelbabu> Vish: part all channels and do it please.
[16:42] <Vish> nigelbabu: what?
[16:42] <Vish> how do i fix the nm problem ?
[16:43] <nigelbabu> Vish: before you /nick, part all channels
[16:43] <Vish> nigelbabu: heh , tel that to nm , so that it doesnt disconnect me :s
[16:43] <nigelbabu> lol
[16:44] <Vish> oh great! i cant use a system for more than 24hrs , before stuff starts to go bonkers..! :/
[16:46] <nigelbabu> haha
[18:52] <qense> nigelbabu: You might also want to keep track of <https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-m-launchpad-upstream-improvements-patches> as it will probably affect this team a lot.