[00:09] <ubuntujenkins> morning everyone
[00:14] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: how easy would it be to work out what is missing from the packages? I expect the answer is very hard
[00:14] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: it's not so much what's missing.. we just need more recent versions, I think.
[00:16] <ubuntujenkins> ok then if the text live source finishes downloading soon I might try and build a set of packages. the only other problem is ppas are limited to 2.0gb at least the ones on my user
[00:17] <ubuntujenkins> all its downloaded is 250mb the svn server must be slow
[00:22] <ubuntujenkins> I am off night all
[00:25] <daker> good night ubuntujenkins
[01:16] <daker_> godbyk, !!
[01:16] <godbyk> Hey, daker_
[01:16] <daker_> what i need you to do
[01:17] <daker_> is to point test.ubuntu-manual.org to lp:ubuntu-manual-website/test
[01:17] <daker_> and
[01:17] <daker_> is to point ubuntu-manual.org to lp:ubuntu-manual-website/main
[01:18] <daker_> now wait til i pushed the test folder
[01:20] <godbyk> daker_: okay, just tell me when to make the switch.
[01:31] <godbyk> Welcome back, daker.
[01:31] <daker> back
[01:33] <daker> should i delete this branch https://code.launchpad.net/~adnane002/ubuntu-manual-website/website ?
[01:34] <godbyk> daker: Why don't you leave it there for a while -- just in case.
[01:34] <daker> oki
[01:34] <godbyk> We can delete it later, after everything else is up and running.
[01:35] <daker> so first point the test.ubuntu-manual.org to lp:ubuntu-manual/test
[01:39] <godbyk> okay. let me run the update script to make sure everything's up to date.
[01:40] <godbyk> do you mean lp:ubuntu-manual/test or lp:ubuntu-manual-website/test?
[01:41] <daker> lp:ubuntu-manual-website/test
[01:41] <daker> :D
[01:41] <godbyk> daker: okay, done.
[01:41] <godbyk> what's next?
[01:41] <daker> okey one sec
[01:41] <godbyk> k
[01:45] <daker> point the ubuntu-manual.org to lp:ubuntu-manual-website/main
[01:45] <daker> wait til lp get updated
[01:45] <godbyk> daker: done
[01:47] <daker> great
[01:52] <daker> godbyk, question
[01:52] <daker> "with Ground Control were were able to slice the barrier to entry to our project without sacrificing the benefits of a revision control system"
[01:52] <daker> the "were were" is correct ?
[01:52] <godbyk> daker: it should be 'we were'
[01:53] <daker> that's what i thought
[01:53] <daker> now everything in place
[01:54] <godbyk> cool.  so what's new?
[01:55] <daker> new icons at right
[01:55] <daker> new page => http://ubuntu-manual.org/quickshot/help
[01:56] <daker> a lot of bug fixes
[01:56] <godbyk> cool
[01:57] <godbyk> let me know if you have any problems with the database stuff
[01:57] <daker> oki
[01:57] <daker> if you could pls create the structure for the files.ubuntu....org asap
[01:58] <godbyk> oh, sure.  just a moment.
[02:11] <godbyk> okay, daker. I have the directory structure set up.  I think it's how I want it.
[02:11] <daker> ???!!!
[02:12] <godbyk> so under the files.ubuntu-manual.org domain, there's the following structure for the manuals. let me know if it makes sense or if you think I should change something:
[02:12] <godbyk> manuals/
[02:12] <godbyk> `-- getting-started-with-ubuntu
[02:12] <godbyk>     |-- 10.04
[02:12] <godbyk>     |   `-- en_US
[02:12] <godbyk>     |       |-- print
[02:12] <godbyk>     |       `-- screen
[02:12] <godbyk>     |-- 10.04-2e
[02:12] <godbyk>     `-- 10.10
[02:12] <daker> great
[02:13] <daker> print and screen are folders ?
[02:14] <godbyk> daker: yeah, though they'll really only contain one pdf file each.
[02:15] <godbyk> the pdf should probably be named 'Getting Started with Ubuntu 10.04.pdf' (translated per language).
[02:15] <daker> oki
[02:28] <godbyk> daker: on the quickshot page, the tagline 'Taking screenshots has never been easier' is so light that it's unreadable. can we make it darker?
[02:30] <godbyk> brb
[02:30] <daker> that's what humphreybc says to me
[02:31] <godbyk> brb
[02:35] <daker> godbyk, another thing before i go to sleep, i need you to updated the website pot file
[02:36] <daker> because i saw that people still translate string in the ubuntu-manual page
[02:36] <godbyk-android> I don't know how to update the website's pot
[02:37] <godbyk-android> but I can email dutchie and have him do it when he wakes up
[02:41] <daker> very easy
[02:42] <daker> just get the pot file from lp:ubuntu-manual-website/main/includes/languages/ubu_man_website_translations.pot
[02:43] <daker> and replace it in
[02:43] <daker> lp:ubunt-manual/website/daker-test/includes/languages/ubu_man_website_translations.pot
[02:44] <godbyk> daker: ah, I see what you mean.
[02:45] <godbyk> the translators aren't translating the ubuntu-manual-website stuff, only the ubuntu-manual stuff, so you want me to copy over the pot file to the ubuntu-manual repository.
[02:45] <godbyk> I can do that.
[02:45] <daker> yes
[02:48] <godbyk> bzr is being slow again.
[02:48] <godbyk> daker: did you see the new video that humphreybc uploaded yesterday?
[02:48] <daker> yes
[02:52] <godbyk> daker: I've updated the pot file.
[02:52] <godbyk> translators should see it soon (launchpad has to process it first).
[02:54] <daker> great
[02:57] <daker> i am not present
[02:57] <daker> i don't see my self on the video :s
[02:59] <daker> oki time to sleep :)
[02:59] <daker> good night all
[07:57]  * ubuntujenkins is still downloading the textlive source 1.9gb done but the svn server is slow
[07:59] <hemanth> ubuntujenkins, now got a good grip on glade :)
[08:00] <hemanth> ubuntujenkins, if you still have my branch, please can you pull and check if its ok
[08:03] <ubuntujenkins> hemanth: works for me
[08:04] <hemanth> ubuntujenkins,thanks, now i can dive into quickshot :O)
[08:04] <ubuntujenkins> possiblly put some padding on the label to move the text from the edge. just a thought
[08:04] <hemanth> okies will do that
[08:06] <ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: ping
[08:07] <hemanth> ubuntujenkins, can the entry text have an action lister to enter key, or the search button respond to enter key and on click as well?
[08:07] <ubuntujenkins> yep
[08:07] <ubuntujenkins> just finding it
[08:09] <ubuntujenkins> on signals tab for the button. under clicked it says enter add on_find_clicked
[08:14] <hemanth> on_find_enter?
[08:14] <ubuntujenkins> no use the same thing on_find_clicked
[08:15] <hemanth> it says Could not lookup object enter on signal clicked
[08:16] <ubuntujenkins> http://imagebin.org/94625 is how you want it
[08:17] <hemanth> ubuntujenkins, yup the same i have done
[08:22] <humphreybc1> hey thorwil, I see Iain still hasn't emailed that SVG through :S
[08:22] <humphreybc1> it's like the design team have no concept of deadlines
[08:25] <thorwil> hi humphreybc1. from the outside, their way of working seems to be horrendously chaotic. one always hears how they are so terribly busy, but one might wonder about the efficiency, looking at the output :/
[08:25] <humphreybc1> heh
[08:25] <humphreybc1> yeah
[08:25] <humphreybc1> (they should just hire me to sort their shit out)
[08:25] <humphreybc1> ;)
[08:25] <ubuntujenkins> hemanth: I am not sure why it doesn't work, it works for me
[08:25] <thorwil> humphreybc1: sure, you're job would be to set realistic goals ;)
[08:26]  * ubuntujenkins wow the wepad does open office
[08:26] <humphreybc1> thorwil: :)
[08:26] <hemanth> ubuntujenkins, o ok will re-check it, i added padding to the button
[08:26]  * hemanth +1 to wepad :) 
[08:43] <godbyk> I haven't had any more bugs reported on this final draft, so I'm left with the conclusion that it's perfect and ready for print.
[08:44] <humphreybc1> apart from the cover
[08:44] <godbyk> humphreybc1: When did you want it on lulu?  If we don't get the logo asap, we may have to go in without it for this first edition.
[08:44] <humphreybc1> the design team will just be getting into work now, i'll see what I can do
[08:44] <godbyk> okay.
[08:45] <humphreybc1> Iain just came online now
[08:45] <godbyk> I think lulu processes the submissions pretty quickly, but it's still good to get it in early so we can make sure everything's good.  (and get the links in to daker et al.)
[08:45] <godbyk> humphreybc1: pounce!
[08:46] <humphreybc1> one step ahead of ya
[08:47] <godbyk> thorwil: do you think we should have a bastard title page?
[08:48] <humphreybc1> apparently we are waiting for Mark to sign it off
[08:51] <humphreybc1> should be in the next couple of hours, hopefully
[08:53] <ChrisWoollard> Also the UK Translation is now finished.
[08:53] <humphreybc1> yay!!!
[08:53] <ubuntujenkins> yey!!!
[08:53]  * humphreybc1 checks the translations 
[08:54] <humphreybc1> there are still 67 untranslated strings?
[08:54]  * ubuntujenkins the texlive svn server is o slow
[08:54] <ChrisWoollard> really
[08:54] <humphreybc1> according to https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual
[08:54] <ChrisWoollard> I just finished them
[08:55] <ubuntujenkins> they are for the website
[08:55] <humphreybc1> oh nice!
[08:55] <humphreybc1> so it looks like we'll have UK english, US english, German, Greek and Galician versions available either on release or very shortly after
[08:55] <ChrisWoollard> hmmm
[08:55] <ChrisWoollard> i was doing https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1/+pots/ubuntu-manual
[08:56] <humphreybc1> hmm
[08:56] <humphreybc1> godbyk
[08:56] <humphreybc1> please explain what's happening
[08:56] <ChrisWoollard> if you click on uk, it then says it has none
[08:56] <humphreybc1> yeah
[08:56] <ubuntujenkins> whats wrong? i think every thing is fine
[08:57] <ChrisWoollard> from the link you provided
[08:57] <humphreybc1> hmm
[08:57] <humphreybc1> okay
[08:57] <humphreybc1> so howcome we have two different links?
[08:57] <godbyk> what am I looking into?
[08:57] <ubuntujenkins> every thing is ok, the link that ChrisWoollard gave was a direct one to lucid-e1 only the link humphreybc1  gave was all the manual translations
[08:57] <humphreybc1> why the translations here (https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual) are different to here (https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1/+pots/ubuntu-manual)
[08:58] <ubuntujenkins> the first on shows the website as well
[08:58] <humphreybc1> ubuntujenkins: oh so my link covers all our branches, like websites/maverick/e2/e1 etc
[08:58] <humphreybc1> is that right?
[08:58] <ubuntujenkins> yes
[08:58] <humphreybc1> ah ha
[08:58] <ubuntujenkins> clikc on a language
[08:58] <godbyk> well, it covers a single series, I think.
[08:59] <godbyk> but it includes both the website and manual translations.
[08:59] <godbyk> (which, btw, I just updated the website translations a few hours ago, so you might make sure they're updated)
[08:59] <ChrisWoollard> Yes, there are more
[08:59] <humphreybc1> never ending Chris :P
[09:00] <ChrisWoollard> never mind. only 67
[09:00] <humphreybc1> the website shouldn't be too hard
[09:00] <humphreybc1> German is all green :D
[09:02] <humphreybc1> godbyk, what about the text on the website front page?
[09:03] <humphreybc1> you know
[09:03] <godbyk> what about it?
[09:03] <humphreybc1> when the countdown timer disappears
[09:03] <humphreybc1> we have a different front page
[09:03] <humphreybc1> the one I mocked up
[09:03] <humphreybc1> lemme find it
[09:03] <humphreybc1> http://www.flickr.com/photos/humphreybc/4396509529/sizes/o/
[09:03] <godbyk> I think we just edit the router file and say that 'homepage' is the new homepage instead of 'countdown'.
[09:04] <godbyk> but I haven't looked at the code for quite a while.
[09:04] <humphreybc1> okay
[09:04] <humphreybc1> so daker has actually made the new homepage?
[09:04] <humphreybc1> shit have I made a new image for that with the new title page?
[09:04] <humphreybc1> I swear I did
[09:04] <humphreybc1> ah, i have
[09:04] <humphreybc1> oh no wait
[09:05] <humphreybc1> we had the flash fading thing
[09:05] <humphreybc1> that's right
[09:05] <humphreybc1> it faded between four iamges
[09:05] <humphreybc1> images*
[09:05] <humphreybc1> where's that gone?
[09:05] <humphreybc1> is the site going to switch over to that page when the countdown reaches zero?
[09:05] <humphreybc1> and have the strings on that page been translated?
[09:06] <godbyk> I assume the home page has been created and we just have to switch to it. but I don't know.
[09:06] <humphreybc1> i'm pretty sure it's been created
[09:06] <humphreybc1> he was testing the fading images in different browsers, remember?
[09:06] <godbyk> I don't think it switches automatically; I think we have to do it manually.
[09:07] <godbyk> you can poke around the branch and see.
[09:07] <humphreybc1> okay, figure out how to do it manually so we're ready. I don't like having to rely on one person for our entire release.
[09:07] <humphreybc1> which branch is the site in?
[09:07] <humphreybc1> ubuntu-manual or ubuntu-manual-website?
[09:07] <godbyk> the ubuntu-manual-website branch
[09:07] <godbyk> in the main/ dir
[09:07] <godbyk> the pages are in the main/pages dir
[09:07] <humphreybc1> so can we delete the website folder from the ubuntu-manual branch?
[09:08] <humphreybc1> and do we even have write access to ubuntu-manual-website?
[09:09] <ChrisWoollard> Ok, Now it is clear
[09:11] <humphreybc1> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual-website
[09:11] <humphreybc1> did daker create a team?
[09:11] <ubuntujenkins> humphreybc1: if you join the website team yes but daker has to aprove you first
[09:11] <humphreybc1> oh
[09:12] <godbyk> humphreybc1: yes, we can delete it but let's wait 'til we have the site up and whatnot. just to be safe.  also, we're still using the manual branch for translations (since the translators haven't been translating the -website stuff)
[09:12] <humphreybc1> right
[09:12] <godbyk> humphreybc1: also, we should have write access to the repository now (though I haven't tried it yet)
[09:12] <humphreybc1> that's... overly complicated.
[09:13] <godbyk> what's overly complicated?
[09:13] <humphreybc1> the fact that the translations for the website are being done from one branch, but the website is stored elsewhere
[09:13] <humphreybc1> also we have like, a tonne of old files from other people who worked on the site
[09:14] <godbyk> well, yes.  we'll move the translators over, but right now they're heads-down working.
[09:14] <humphreybc1> okay
[09:15] <godbyk> and next week (when we can all catch our breaths), we'll want to wipe out the maverick branch probably and build a new one with just the manual files in it (so it's not carrying around the bloated history of everything before it including the website)
[09:15] <godbyk> \o/
[09:15] <godbyk> I just added two new document class options: screen and print.
[09:15] <humphreybc1> yup, okay, good
[09:15] <humphreybc1> next week will be all hands to the pumps setting everything up for maverick
[09:15] <godbyk> so if I compile with the 'screen' option, the links are in color. if I compile with the 'print' option, the links are black text.
[09:15]  * godbyk is pleased with himself.
[09:16] <humphreybc1> nice
[09:16]  * humphreybc1 is pleased with godbyk!
[09:16] <humphreybc1> but yeah, next will be all setting up infrastructure, specifications and getting help for the next 6 months
[09:16] <godbyk> actually, the maverick stuff isn't quite top priority.  we'll have to get lucid-e2 going first and deal with whatever comes of the release.
[09:16] <humphreybc1> well that's what i mean
[09:16] <humphreybc1> lucid-e2/maverick/same diff :P
[09:17] <thorwil> godbyk: bastard title page?
[09:17] <humphreybc1> also, we need to talk with Ilya to figure out some research
[09:17] <godbyk> also known as a half title page.
[09:17] <godbyk> thorwil: basically it's a really simple title page that comes before the nice title page.
[09:18] <godbyk> since it's abutted against the cover with the book is closed, it's what catches any damage.
[09:18] <godbyk> (at least that was the original idea centuries ago.  now they're not quite as necessary.. I'm just old-fashioned.)
[09:18] <thorwil> godbyk: i think no, as it's one of those things that makes a book feel big
[09:19] <godbyk> 'kay.
[09:21] <thorwil> godbyk: in german, we call that a schmutztitel, literally "dirt title". no wonder i had to look up bastard/half title
[09:22] <thorwil> hooray for information technology's lack of specific native german terms
[09:22] <godbyk> heh.. well, it's not really an IT term -- just a publishing term.
[09:23] <godbyk> But I like scmuztitel.  It clearly defines its purpose. :)
[09:24] <humphreybc1> godbyk, an example of a half title?
[09:24] <humphreybc1> (picture)
[09:24] <thorwil> godbyk: that's what i mean. IT does not have that native language baggage typography or other old fields have, making it a lot easier for bi-linguals
[09:26] <godbyk> ah, I see.
[09:26] <godbyk> humphreybc1: sure, one sec.
[09:27] <godbyk> humphreybc1: http://kevin.godby.org/ShinyHappyUsersWithCover.pdf
[09:27] <godbyk> so the first page is the cover. the second is the backside of the cover. ignore those.
[09:27] <godbyk> then you have the half-title page.
[09:27] <godbyk> then there's a frontispiece (it's there because there were two title page proposals and that was part of the losing one. so I put it there as a compromise)
[09:28] <godbyk> then you have the full title page (with all the authors)
[09:28] <godbyk> then the copyright page
[09:28] <godbyk> then the contents, main matter, back matter, etc.
[09:32] <godbyk> what's the easiest way to extract a single page out of a pdf?
[09:33] <godbyk> (just so you don't have to download to full copies of the book when I show you this page)
[09:38] <godbyk> thorwil, humphreybc1, et al.: what do you think of this text that I added to the copyright page?  (it differs slightly for print and screen versions.)
[09:39] <godbyk> http://kevin.godby.org/private/junk/copyright-screen.pdf
[09:39] <godbyk> http://kevin.godby.org/private/junk/copyright-print.pdf
[09:45] <godbyk> Hey, komsas. How's it going?
[09:47] <komsas> hi godbyk, I'm good, thanks
[09:51] <komsas> godbyk: do you know where is better to translate web page, there is ubuntu-manual-website project and ubu-man-website-translations template in the ubuntu-manul?
[09:51] <godbyk> yeah, it shouldn't actually matter -- they're the same translations in both (and launchpad will copy them across the two projects)
[09:51] <humphreybc1> godbyk, looks good
[09:51] <godbyk> we copied the translations into the ubuntu-manual project so that translators would see them and translate them.
[09:52] <godbyk> (since we started the -website project a bit later and it seemed like the translators hadn't noticed it yet)
[09:52] <humphreybc1> right
[09:52] <humphreybc1> i have avatar on blu ray and a tonne of snacks
[09:52] <humphreybc1> i'm going to watch it now
[09:54] <thorwil> godbyk: firefox/wget hang on connecting to kevin.godby.org
[09:55] <godbyk> really?
[09:56] <thorwil> godbyk: according to the last comment on https://bugs.launchpad.net/inkscape/+bug/570377 , i just need to fix a lsight accidental transparency that shouldn't be there in the first place to get correct pdf export
[09:56] <manualbot> Launchpad bug 570377 in inkscape "Erroneous PDF export of scaled rectangles" [Undecided,New]
[09:56] <godbyk> thorwil: it worked okay here.
[09:57] <godbyk> thorwil: nice.. that's an odd bug, isn't it?
[09:59] <thorwil> godbyk: yes. that i ended up with 98% transparency is likely related to the tools remembering last used options. though even then i don't know how i can have one reactangle at 100 and the other on 98 in my test file, where i didn't touch that slider at all
[10:03] <thorwil> godbyk: unfortunately, none of the elements in the UMP logo is at less than 100% opacity :<
[10:03] <godbyk> hmm..
[10:06] <thorwil> godbyk: just did an export with the vector icon included and it comes out fine, now. but i happen to be using the latest inkscape bzr, so i don't know what fixed it now
[10:06] <thorwil> insanity here i come
[10:07] <godbyk> wonderful.
[10:07] <godbyk> I guess I can try converting your svg here and see what blows up, too.
[10:07] <godbyk> well, actually, this is the cover.
[10:07] <godbyk> so it doesn't matter.
[10:07] <thorwil> still no luck with Connecting to kevin.godby.org
[10:07] <godbyk> you can do whatever you want, as long as you give me a PDF in the end. :)
[10:08] <godbyk> thorwil: maybe try kevingodby.org?  it should be the same site.
[10:08] <thorwil> godbyk: yeah, i will of course commit svg and pdf for this one
[10:08] <godbyk> (in case it's a weird dns thing that only affects the godby.org domain)
[10:08] <thorwil> same
[10:08] <godbyk> weird.
[10:08] <godbyk> okay, I'll just email 'em to ya.
[10:08] <thorwil> resolution to 69.163.168.200 is correct?
[10:09] <godbyk> thorwil: sent.
[10:10] <godbyk> thorwil: yep, that's it.
[10:11] <thorwil> got the mail
[10:12] <thorwil> godbyk: good
[10:12] <godbyk> 'kay.  I'll go with those then.
[10:12] <godbyk> anything else important that should go on the copyright page?
[10:13] <godbyk> I fixed the blank pages before the index (it was adding an extra blank page).
[10:13] <godbyk> now the pdf is sitting at 164 pages, which is quite handy as it's evenly divisible by 4.
[10:14] <godbyk> though I'm still considering the schmutztitel.
[10:20] <thorwil> godbyk: i just exported the lulu cover from inkscape to a 300 dpi png and rendered a pdf of the same via gimp to do a visual diff. they are identical
[10:20] <thorwil> couldn't be sure about that anymore
[10:20] <godbyk> heh
[10:20] <godbyk> I don't blame yout.
[10:20] <godbyk> you, rather.
[10:21] <godbyk> I just finished surveying the perfect bound books on my shelves and all but two of them had half-title pages.
[10:21] <thorwil> humphreybc1, godbyk: once i get that ubuntu logo, shall we run with just the current design with this single addition, or do you still want quotes on there?
[10:22] <godbyk> I'm okay with the current design. I don't know if humphreybc1 still wants quotes or not. I'm not sure if he got more than the one.
[10:22] <godbyk> I think the quotes probably aren't necessary for the hard copy, since it's not sitting on a shelf hoping someone buys it.
[10:22] <godbyk> if you're looking at a hard copy, then you (or someone) has already bought it.
[10:23] <godbyk> thorwil: how strongly against half-title pages are you?
[10:23] <godbyk> I'm proposing to use them in the printed book, but not in the on-screen pdf.
[10:23] <thorwil> godbyk: strong like the hut of the first of the 3 pigs
[10:24] <godbyk> lol!
[10:25] <godbyk> thorwil: okay, let me whip one up real quick and we'll see how it looks.
[10:25] <godbyk> are you at all tempted by colophons?
[10:26] <thorwil> you mean production notes?
[10:26] <godbyk> basically, yeah. typefaces used, any special production notes, etc.
[10:27] <thorwil> nice to have. shows some respect/support to the projects we benefit from
[10:27] <thorwil> typefaces first, inkscape last or not at all ;)
[10:28] <godbyk> at this point, I'm almost loathe to mention inkscape at all with as much trouble as it's given us!
[10:28] <godbyk> I'll type up some notes and run 'em past ya.
[10:30] <thorwil> yeah, there's just really no alternative for the work i did on the titlepage. could have assembled the parts in scribus, perhaps, but created them
[10:31] <godbyk> yeah, inkscape has sucked away a lot of our time.
[10:31] <godbyk> we *could* have done it in LaTeX itself, but that brings its own problems -- namely, that you're fiddling with numbers all the time instead of just moving things around and aligning them by eye.
[10:38] <ubuntujenkins> this is strange irc still works the textlive download is still going but I can't view any webpages
[10:43] <godbyk> thorwil: were the icons on the cover designed by us or did we snag those from somewhere?
[10:44] <thorwil> godbyk: the globe and the pseudo-text have shapes taken from the Humanity icon set. rest from scratch
[10:45] <godbyk> thorwil: do we need to cite that (or should we)?
[10:45] <thorwil> godbyk: actually, the mouse pointer is from that set, too, i mean to recall
[10:45] <thorwil> vish: ^ what do you think?
[10:46] <thorwil> godbyk: i think it's the right thing to do
[10:46] <vish> meh , i dont know squat about copyrights!
[10:47] <godbyk> vish: what license are the icons under?
[10:48] <vish> "This package is licensed under GNU General Public License version 2."
[10:49] <vish> from the authors file   ^ , still dont know what it means though ;p
[10:49] <godbyk> okay.
[10:49] <godbyk> so we're not required to cite the source.
[10:49] <godbyk> so the question is just 'should we?' :)
[10:51] <ubuntujenkins> I think it would be nice to if we have some where good to put it
[10:51] <godbyk> thorwil: I've emailed you the colophon as it looks right now.
[10:51] <godbyk> for those who can actually get to my website, it's online at: http://kevin.godby.org/private/junk/colophon.pdf
[10:51] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: we've got someplace to put it now. :)
[10:52] <ubuntujenkins> can you mail it to me i cant get onto webpages but can recive e-mails
[10:52] <godbyk> sure. what address, ubuntujenkins?
[10:52] <thorwil> godbyk: now i can get that pdf
[10:52] <ubuntujenkins> in that case put it in as I would apreciate it being put in if it was my work. ubuntujenkins@googlemail.com
[10:53] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: sent
[10:53] <godbyk> thorwil: great!
[10:54] <godbyk> Also, I would normally mention that, say, the title page and cover was designed by thorwil, the book interior was designed by blah, etc.
[10:54] <godbyk> Do we want to call out individuals or just let them reside in the credits with everyone else?
[10:54] <godbyk> (I'm leaning toward the latter, as I don't suppose the designers are more important than the authors and translators, but that's just me.)
[10:55] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: I like it, especially the quickshot one :)
[10:55] <godbyk> (since we're not listing authors on the title page like you normally would to give them more prominence.)
[10:55] <godbyk> :)
[10:55] <ubuntujenkins> I think all in the credits
[10:55] <thorwil> godbyk: "The pointer arrow, globe and the documents pictogram on the title page are made of or contain shapes taken form the Humanity icon set."??
[10:55] <godbyk> are there other tools that we relied on that should be mentioned?
[10:55] <godbyk> thorwil: sure. works for me.  do we have a url for the humanity icon set?
[10:56] <godbyk> (since I'm linking to everyone else)
[10:56] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: you guys should get quickshot.ubuntu-manual.org (or quickshot.org or whatnot) set up sometime. :)
[10:56] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: yep I will speak with everyone soon about it letting this release of the manual roll through
[10:56] <thorwil> godbyk: wait, "The title page pictograms contain shapes taken from the Humanity icon set."
[10:57] <godbyk> thorwil: I like that better.  More concise.
[10:57] <thorwil> godbyk: https://launchpad.net/humanity
[10:58] <thorwil> vish: there's no project homepage for Humanity, besides the LP page, right?
[10:58] <vish> nope..
[10:58] <ubuntujenkins> also godbyk do you know how big the texlive svn repo is?
[10:58] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: no clue. I'm guessing it'd be huge, though.
[10:59] <thorwil> godbyk: i don't think calling out individuals belongs in the production notes
[10:59] <godbyk> Are there any other tools we used that I've left out of the list?
[10:59] <godbyk> thorwil: fair enough.
[11:00] <thorwil> godbyk: bzr?
[11:00] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: it is at 2.9 gb so far but its going at 18kiB/s the sever is so slow.
[11:00] <godbyk> I think svn has built-in throttles so it's always slow.  At least it seems that way with all the servers I've used.
[11:01] <ubuntujenkins> that sucks
[11:04] <godbyk> I've updated the colophon.pdf file at the url above if you want to double-check my spelling and everything.
[11:06] <thorwil> godbyk: both lines refering to the title page should be paired
[11:06] <thorwil> godbyk: easiest to achive by moving "e screenshots were captured using ishot," one up
[11:06] <godbyk> thorwil: good call
[11:06] <godbyk> should we promote Quickshot or demote it a line?
[11:07] <ubuntujenkins> promote it :) we need the advertising
[11:07] <thorwil> promote
[11:07] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: works for me! :)
[11:13] <godbyk> I've just uploaded the latest draft to http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/builds/ubuntu-manual-final-draft.pdf
[11:13] <godbyk> (I'm going to regenerate the half-title page PDF on my lucid laptop so it doesn't look so crappy)
[11:14] <godbyk> whoops.. forgot to set it to print instead of screen.
[11:14] <godbyk> one moment
[11:16] <godbyk> okay, now the print version is uploaded
[11:16] <godbyk> er.. uploading.. in progress.
[11:16] <godbyk> *Now* it's uploaded.
[11:26] <godbyk> okay, fixed the half-title page.
[11:27] <godbyk> assuming that aren't any horrible bugs that cause me to add or remove pages, we're sitting at 168 pages.
[11:28] <godbyk> so let me plug those numbers into lulu and get thorwil his final dimensions for the cover.
[11:30] <godbyk> thorwil: final cover dimensions are:
[11:31] <godbyk> Spine width: 27.08 Postscript points wide (0.376")
[11:31] <godbyk> Spine begins 621 Postscript points (8.63") from the left.
[11:31] <godbyk> Total cover width: 1269.08 X 810 Postscript points (17.63" X 11.25")
[11:31] <godbyk> those dimensions include the 0.125" border that's trimmed (for the full bleed).
[11:31] <nisshh> hehehe, guess what i just did?
[11:31] <godbyk> nisshh: what?
[11:32] <nisshh> hacked my parents xp machine since they were abusing my net connection
[11:32] <nisshh> hehehe
[11:32] <nisshh> so fun
[11:32] <godbyk> nice
[11:32] <nisshh> they are all standing around it going "what the hell?"
[11:32] <nisshh> serves them right
[11:33] <nisshh> brb, dinnertime
[11:33] <godbyk> nisshh: now the real question is, were they abusing *your* net connection, or are you trying to freeload off *their* net connection? :)
[11:34] <bittin> Hello, do you need more Swedish Translators_
[11:35] <bittin> ?
[11:35] <godbyk> Hey, bittin. Quite possibly.
[11:35] <bittin> =) then i should try to look into that, just listned to latest Full Circle Magazine Podcast and heard about this project :)
[11:35] <godbyk> bittin: https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1/+lang/sv
[11:35] <godbyk> Cool!
[11:35] <ubuntujenkins> bittin: I think artnay is doing swedish i think he would welcome the help
[11:36] <bittin> iam a bit tired today tough coded and sleept 4hours tonight, but will look into it tommorow =)
[11:36] <godbyk> bittin: You'll probably want to glance through the translators' chapter in this PDF: http://files.ubuntu-manual.org/style-guide.pdf
[11:37] <godbyk> that'll help you figure out which parts you should and shouldn't translate.
[11:37] <godbyk> but if you have any questions, feel free to ask away.
[11:37] <bittin> godbyk: will do that :)
[11:37] <godbyk> awesome
[11:40] <bittin> btw on a little offtopic note: you know if i can preorder Ubuntu 10.04 cds from shipit yet?
[11:40] <godbyk> bittin: I'm not sure if you can yet or not.
[11:40] <happyaron> hi, I wonder which tex we use? latex or xetex
[11:40] <ubuntujenkins> I think i saw an omg ubuntu post saying you can
[11:40] <bittin> seems like you can :)
[11:41] <bittin> me likes latex
[11:41] <happyaron> bittin: can I switch to use xetex to produce my pdf (for zh_CN)
[11:41] <bittin> dunno =(
[11:42] <godbyk> happyaron: We're using XeLaTeX to make translations work more easily.
[11:42] <happyaron> godbyk: so can we generate zh_CN books? or can you tell me how to try it out?
[11:42] <godbyk> happyaron: I'm hoping we can.  I haven't set up all the Chinese stuff yet, though.
[11:43] <godbyk> happyaron: You can see the current Chinese PDFs here: http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/
[11:43] <happyaron> godbyk: our team want's to make sure things can work so that we can kick off the translation work
[11:43] <godbyk> Once I've got the English version of the manual released (only two more days to go), I'll start working on setting up the translated manuals.
[11:44] <happyaron> that sounds good
[11:44] <godbyk> happyaron: I understand.  Have you used XeTeX before?  If so, I may pester you for help if I get stuck. :)
[11:45] <happyaron> godbyk: sorry I know very little about tex, and just tried ConTeX before, :)
[11:45] <godbyk> Gotcha.
[11:45] <godbyk> Well, we'll get it all worked out.
[11:46] <godbyk> If you guys do the translations, we'll find a way to make it work. :-)
[11:46] <bittin> do you have any mailinglist?
[11:46] <happyaron> godbyk: there is another problem that we don't know how to translate the control sets (I mean the gramma of tex)
[11:46] <happyaron> bittin: are you asking me?
[11:47] <bittin> iam asking the whole channel :)
[11:47] <ubuntujenkins> bittin: join https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual and the mailing list is at the bottom
[11:47] <bittin> ah ok
[11:47] <happyaron> godbyk: and looking at the current build, it seems that there isn't a Chinese font in use
[11:47] <bittin> will do that
[11:47] <godbyk> happyaron: Yes, the mailing list is on the left-hand side of this page: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-manual
[11:48] <godbyk> happyaron: that could very well be. I think when I first started searching for fonts for all the languages, the Chinese translation didn't exist yet.
[11:48] <bittin> thanks
[11:48] <bittin> now i should continue powernapping, but will look into some swedish translating tommorow
[11:48] <bittin> and learning LateX
[11:48] <godbyk> happyaron: You'll probably want to glance through the translators' chapter in this PDF: http://files.ubuntu-manual.org/style-guide.pdf
[11:49] <godbyk> happyaron: It'll show you what parts to translate and which parts to leave as-is.
[11:49] <bittin> downloaded style-guide now
[11:49] <happyaron> godbyk: that's good
[11:49] <bittin> cya tommorow =)
[11:49] <ubuntujenkins> bye bittin
[11:49] <godbyk> See ya later, bittin!
[11:49] <happyaron> godbyk: can I recommend several Chinese fonts for you now? I mean free fonts
[11:50] <godbyk> happyaron: As you're translating, if you have any questions feel free to email the list or pop in here.
[11:50] <godbyk> happyaron: Yes, please do!
[11:50] <happyaron> godbyk: wqy-microhei, wqy-zenhei
[11:50] <godbyk> I've not typeset Chinese before, so I don't know which fonts look the best for a book.
[11:51] <happyaron> godbyk:
[11:51] <happyaron> godbyk: ukai, uming
[11:51] <happyaron> godbyk: these four are the best ones
[11:52] <godbyk> happyaron: Cool.  Which do you think would work best for the text of a book?  And which for the headings?
[11:52] <happyaron> godbyk: wqy-microhei for headings, uming for text
[11:52] <godbyk> Okay.
[11:53] <ubuntujenkins> hello Daker
[11:53] <Daker> hello
[11:55] <Daker> humphreybc1, ping
[11:56] <godbyk> Daker: I think he's still watching Avatar.
[11:56] <Daker> can someone explain this :"Create a "star" feature thing that shows the manual available on lulu.com - I'll do a mockup of what I want soon and email it to you."
[11:57] <hemanth> the translation link on the wall of The Ubuntu Manual is broken?
[11:58] <godbyk> Daker: He had a mockup someplace.  But basically he wants a callout that mentions we have printed versions of the book available.
[11:58] <godbyk> hemanth: It is?
[11:58] <ubuntujenkins> hemanth: what wall facebook?
[11:58] <godbyk> Daker: http://humphreybc.homeip.net/files/manual-print.png
[11:58] <godbyk> Daker: It doesn't need to look exactly like that.  That's just the general idea he's talking about.
[11:59] <hemanth> godbyk, seems so
[11:59] <hemanth> ubuntujenkins, http://www.facebook.com/#!/ubuntumanual
[11:59] <Daker> godbyk, ah oki
[11:59] <ubuntujenkins> last psot right hemanth. I can fix it
[11:59] <hemanth> yup ubuntujenkins
[12:00] <godbyk> ah.. facebook converted the + to a space (hex 20)
[12:00] <Daker> lulu.com doesn't provide these things ?
[12:00] <godbyk> Daker: not that I know of.
[12:00] <ubuntujenkins> I have commented on the post with a new link
[12:00] <hemanth> godbyk, FB fail ah ? ;)
[12:00] <godbyk> when thorwil's finished with the cover, I'll be able to give you a link to our book on the lulu site.
[12:00] <godbyk> hemanth: apparently.
[12:01]  * ubuntujenkins is a facebook group admin
[12:01] <hemanth> :)
[12:01] <ubuntujenkins> wow Malaysia is our most active country
[12:01]  * godbyk has no idea if he's a fb group admin or not.
[12:03]  * Daker too
[12:11] <ubuntujenkins> ask humphreybc1
[12:16] <godbyk> As long as no one needs me to mess around with the FB page, I'm happy to leave that to others. :)
[12:18] <hemanth> ubuntujenkins, deb file is ready now...[its very naive i know]
[12:18] <Daker> brb
[12:37] <humphreybc1> what's happening people?
[12:38] <godbyk> Finally done watching Avatar, humphreybc1?
[12:38] <humphreybc1> yup!
[12:38] <humphreybc1> it IS 3 hours long after all
[12:38] <humphreybc1> daker, godbyk, you're now admins on FB
[12:39] <daker> Ohhhh
[12:39] <godbyk> Oh, yay. :P
[12:39] <daker> hello humphreybc1
[12:39] <humphreybc1> hey daker!
[12:39] <humphreybc1> long time no see :P
[12:39] <daker> yep
[12:39] <daker> exams :)
[12:39] <humphreybc1> ah, fair enough
[12:39] <humphreybc1> are they finished now?
[12:39] <daker> yes
[12:40] <humphreybc1> nice. There's lots to do :P
[12:40] <daker> i started working yesterday with godbyk
[12:41] <nisshh> godbyk: nah its a shared net connection, they were abusing the download speed...
[12:42] <daker> www.ubuntu-manual.org is pointing to the folder "main" on the branch & test.ubuntu-manual.org is pointing to the "test" folder
[12:42] <nisshh> daker: yesterday we were all like: where the hell is daker?
[12:42] <nisshh> "we need you daker!"
[12:42] <daker> oh
[12:42] <godbyk> nisshh: who pays for it? :)
[12:42] <nisshh> my parents
[12:43] <nisshh> unfortunantly
[12:43] <godbyk> heh.
[12:43] <godbyk> so it's really *their* internet.. :)
[12:43] <humphreybc1> daker, no worries. There's a new video to go on the Contributors page. I'm sorry I left you out the first time, but I've re-rendered it and you're now in the video :)
[12:43] <nisshh> yea, but it makes me feel sick just thinking that
[12:44] <nisshh> since they dont even know how to use it!
[12:44] <humphreybc1> We also need to make sure when the countdown reaches zero, the main page changes to the correct home page (with the fading animation of the pictures and the download link + features)
[12:44] <humphreybc1> the download links need to work, too
[12:44] <godbyk> nisshh: heh. I've been there.
[12:44] <nisshh> godbyk: yea, not funny is it?
[12:44] <humphreybc1> and also, we need to make sure the language selection on ubuntu-manual.org/downloads lists only languages that are actually available (ie, finished)
[12:44] <godbyk> nisshh: moving out fixed a lot of those issues. :)
[12:45] <daker> oki humphreybc1
[12:45] <godbyk> I think I had set up a router that shaped the bandwidth to guarantee I always had most of it.
[12:45] <nisshh> godbyk: too bad they still claim ownership of me!!!
[12:45]  * nisshh shakes fist at his parents
[12:46] <humphreybc1> daker: any more questions, ask me asap because i'm having an early night tonight (9am lab tomorrow)
[12:47] <nisshh> godbyk: i use about 80% of the bandwidth currently, they just happen to leave stuff running in the background all the time that is constantly downloading/uploading data
[12:47] <godbyk> nisshh: ah, that sucks.
[12:48] <humphreybc1> godbyk, thorwil, give the design team until the end of this working day to get the Ubuntu logo SVG to us. If they haven't emailed it to us by then, upload the PDFs to lulu.com without it.
[12:48] <nisshh> godbyk: yea and they use XP still so i cant do a: pkill all-the-shit-on-my-parents-computer
[12:48] <humphreybc1> it's currently just about 1pm in London
[12:49] <humphreybc1> so they have another 4 hours.
[12:49] <godbyk> humphreybc1: 'kay.
[12:49] <thorwil> ok
[12:53] <humphreybc1> shit, 36 hours till launch :S
[12:53] <godbyk> yep.
[12:53] <godbyk> You better be at the party, humphreybc1!
[12:54] <humphreybc1> let's see, it'll be midday friday for me, i should be there :)
[12:54] <ubuntujenkins> what time is it released in the uk?
[12:54] <humphreybc1> the manual?
[12:54] <humphreybc1> or lucid?
[12:55] <ubuntujenkins> manual, i have had lucid for ages :)
[12:55] <humphreybc1> let's see, it'll be about 1am your time :)
[12:55] <godbyk> It'll be released whenever I feel like uploading it. ;-)
[12:55] <humphreybc1> UTC 0000 I think
[12:55] <humphreybc1> heh
[12:55] <godbyk> And not a moment sooner!
[12:55] <humphreybc1> yeah, pretty much
[12:55] <ubuntujenkins> I might be awake not sure
[12:55] <humphreybc1> the page will go up at midnight on wednesday/thursday
[12:55] <humphreybc1> (UTC, that is)
[12:55] <humphreybc1> no wait
[12:56]  * humphreybc1 is confused
[12:56] <humphreybc1> as long as we get it out before Friday :P
[12:56] <godbyk> Somewhere (on the FB page, maybe) someone said it was to be released at 12 PM UTC (which is 1200 UTC, not 0000 UTC).
[12:56] <humphreybc1> yeah
[12:56] <humphreybc1> I think the countdown stops 12 hours before that
[12:56] <humphreybc1> gives us 12 hours to make sure everything's right?
[12:56] <ubuntujenkins> thats what confused me
[12:57] <humphreybc1> it'll work out
[12:58] <daker> our countdown stops at "2010, 3, 29 , 12, 00, 00"
[12:58] <humphreybc1> uh
[12:58] <godbyk> Whatever. I'm hoping to have everything in place before all that anyway. :)
[12:58] <humphreybc1> yeah
[12:58] <humphreybc1> when the countdown reaches zero, just change one line of code and push
[12:58] <humphreybc1> everything works :P
[12:58] <daker> yes
[12:58] <humphreybc1> that's the theory, anyway
[12:59] <godbyk> yep
[12:59] <godbyk> I think I'll leave all this in daker's hands and go get some sleep. :)
[12:59] <humphreybc1> heh
[12:59] <humphreybc1> i'm gonna go to bed in a sec too
[12:59] <ubuntujenkins> night godbyk and humphreybc1
[12:59] <humphreybc1> daker, anything you need to know, ask now!
[13:00] <daker> one sec
[13:01] <daker> fine
[13:01] <daker> go to sleep humphreybc1
[13:01] <humphreybc1> godbyk, you converted the new video and stuck it in the right place?
[13:01] <godbyk> humphreybc1: yep.
[13:01] <humphreybc1> good good
[13:01] <godbyk> same place as before.
[13:02] <humphreybc1> godbyk, what text should we have in the star?
[13:02] <humphreybc1> currently it's "Did you know you can buy the manual in print?"
[13:02] <godbyk> Hmm.. I dunno.  Maybe just, 'Buy the book now!'
[13:02] <godbyk> It shouldn't be a question.. it should be an action.
[13:02] <humphreybc1> hm
[13:03] <humphreybc1> well in that case, on the download button we should have "Download for Free!"
[13:03] <humphreybc1> and then in the star "Buy the book!"
[13:03] <humphreybc1> So people don't get confuzzled
[13:03] <humphreybc1> "(00:03:35) iainfarrell: so I have been given the OK on the guide, am just waiting on the files now"
[13:04] <humphreybc1> "(00:03:41) iainfarrell: once I have those I can share them"
[13:04] <humphreybc1> "(00:03:48) humphreybc1: email em straight to Thorsten :)"
[13:04] <godbyk> good
[13:04] <humphreybc1> "(00:03:52) iainfarrell: will do"
[13:04] <ubuntujenkins> is that the logo?
[13:04] <humphreybc1> thorwil: once you get the logo, stick it in the cover and give it to godbyk
[13:04] <humphreybc1> godbyk, upload it as soon as soon as possible
[13:04] <humphreybc1> :)
[13:05] <godbyk> yeppers
[13:05] <humphreybc1> then once it's available to purchase, give the purchase link to daker so he can hyperlink the star, and copy me in so I can buy a copy
[13:05]  * humphreybc1 is buying a copy and shipping it to doctormo's house, who is bringing it to UDS
[13:05] <godbyk> fun
[13:06] <godbyk> when's UDS?
[13:06] <humphreybc1> yup, but i need to make sure it arrives before Martin leaves
[13:06] <humphreybc1> May 10th - 14th
[13:06] <humphreybc1> Martin will be leaving next friday I think
[13:06] <humphreybc1> and if it takes 5 business days to ship, it might be cutting it rather fine
[13:06] <godbyk> well, you could always pay for faster shipping.
[13:06] <godbyk> you'll probably have to.
[13:07] <humphreybc1> kay
[13:07] <godbyk> I'm not sure how long it takes to process the order (print it).
[13:07] <humphreybc1> okay
[13:09] <godbyk> humphreybc1: When I list the book on the lulu site, I'll need a list of keywords (tags) to include along with the description.
[13:09] <humphreybc1> okay
[13:09] <humphreybc1> um
[13:09] <humphreybc1> I'm sure we can come up with some nice words
[13:09] <godbyk> maybe email the list and ask for suggestions, too. I don't care. :)
[13:10] <humphreybc1> kay
[13:10] <humphreybc1> so for release, we need to have a mother metric shit tonne of hype
[13:10] <godbyk> humphreybc1: that's what you're here for. :)
[13:11] <humphreybc1> heh
[13:11] <godbyk> humphreybc1: When I added my previous lulu book to the cart, it says it ships in 3-5 business days.
[13:11] <godbyk> humphreybc1: and the hardcover edition says 10-15 business days.
[13:12] <humphreybc1> hm okay
[13:12] <humphreybc1> what's the next step up?
[13:12] <humphreybc1> 2 - 4 days?
[13:12] <godbyk> no, no.. that's the amount of time before they ship the book.. not before it arrives.
[13:12] <godbyk> so 3-5 days + shipping time = time before book arrives.
[13:12] <humphreybc1> oh
[13:12] <humphreybc1> shit
[13:14] <godbyk> humphreybc1: https://support.lulu.com/View.jsp?procId=3f90e5ca51ccacbcba3ac4244d1919e4
[13:14] <godbyk> humphreybc1: and https://support.lulu.com/View.jsp?id=3df8f1868451c350--3ccc0178-1258d4d49d9--7f18&fromProcRevs=5d3751aa33726de81e46720196940111
[13:15] <humphreybc1> hmm
[13:15] <humphreybc1> how much is Express?
[13:15] <humphreybc1> I'll probably have to go for Expedited
[13:15] <humphreybc1> or just get it shipped to belgium?
[13:16] <godbyk> heh.. you could, I s'pose.
[13:16] <godbyk> if there's someone in Belgium to receive it for you.
[13:16] <humphreybc1> the hotel?
[13:16] <godbyk> (or you contact the hotel first)
[13:16] <humphreybc1> it would probably arrive while i'm there
[13:16] <popey> :)
[13:16] <popey> will you be signing copies :)
[13:16] <humphreybc1> hehehe
[13:16] <godbyk> lol
[13:16] <humphreybc1> popey: sure
[13:17] <humphreybc1> popey: what do you think? ship it to the hotel?
[13:17] <godbyk> just for popey
[13:17] <humphreybc1> I want to have a copy to show off at UDS :P
[13:17] <humphreybc1> also, godbyk, we should order a copy and ship it around the world to each key contributor to get a heap of signatures
[13:17] <popey> should be enough time surely?
[13:18] <humphreybc1> popey: hmm. It reckons it takes 3-5 business days to actually *make* the book, then it takes anywhere from 1 - 5 business days to ship it inside the USA, depending on how much you spend on shipping. My plan was to ship it to doctormo and he said he'd take it across the atlantic for me.
[13:18] <popey> sounds like a plan
[13:18] <godbyk> it says there may be additional shipping time for our book since it's only printed in the US.  if I set up a special edition just for humphreybc1 with the cheaper paper, it may get there a little bit faster, I'm not sure.
[13:18] <popey> thats LuLu is it?
[13:19] <humphreybc1> or, popey, i could ship it to the hotel in Brussels
[13:19] <godbyk> popey: yeah
[13:19] <humphreybc1> I'm there for a week, after all
[13:19] <popey> http://www.lulu.com/uk
[13:19] <humphreybc1> (get it shipped to popey perhaps?)
[13:19] <humphreybc1> :P
[13:19] <popey> if they do printing inthe UK, yeah
[13:20] <popey> 2 days in the uk it says
[13:20] <humphreybc1> to print or ship?
[13:20] <popey> ship
[13:20] <popey> 1-2
[13:20] <humphreybc1> that's pretty good
[13:20] <godbyk> Wow.. the UK is so tiny! :)
[13:20] <popey> go to lulu.com/uk and click "shipping" down the bottom
[13:20] <humphreybc1> should we do that then?
[13:20] <godbyk> That's if we use the cheap paper.
[13:20] <c7p> hello guys
[13:20] <humphreybc1> they only print on cheap paper in the UK?
[13:20] <popey> they can ship on saturday too
[13:21] <daker> brb
[13:21] <godbyk> The nicer paper is apparently only printed in the US.
[13:21] <humphreybc1> how bad is the cheap paper?
[13:21] <godbyk> https://support.lulu.com/View.jsp?id=3df8f1868451c350--3ccc0178-1258d4d49d9--7f18&fromProcRevs=5d3751aa33726de81e46720196940111
[13:21] <godbyk> per the asterisk.
[13:21] <popey> nice url
[13:21] <godbyk> I don't know, I haven't used it.
[13:21] <godbyk> popey:  no kidding.. they're all like that.
[13:22] <humphreybc1> godbyk, i spose you could do a special edition for yours truly
[13:22] <humphreybc1> I might buy a couple of copies then, since it'll be cheaper with the cheap paper
[13:22] <godbyk> I should switch my website from kevin.godby.org to dce8e3f9-3834-403b-a073-8aac6ee7bc6d.com.
[13:22] <humphreybc1> (give one to Mark?) hehe
[13:22] <popey> well, if you decide you want one shipped to the UK, lemme know
[13:22] <humphreybc1> popey: will do, thanks
[13:22] <godbyk> 'kay. I'll set up one using the cheap paper just for you, then. :)
[13:23] <humphreybc1> :)
[13:23] <godbyk> You'll save $0.005/page.  Yay!
[13:23] <humphreybc1> how much is it with the cheap paper? $6 USD or something right?
[13:23] <humphreybc1> I bet you it's just recycled toilet paper
[13:24] <popey> why recycle?
[13:24] <humphreybc1> heh
[13:24] <humphreybc1> just used toilet paper, then
[13:24] <humphreybc1> lovely
[13:24] <godbyk> humphreybc1: something like that, yeah.
[13:24] <humphreybc1> i should really drop this 1 from my nick
[13:25] <humphreybc1> we'll want to make sure we have those counting scripts set up, so we can really see if we reach our download goal :)
[13:25]  * ubuntujenkins starts ripping up the old quickhsot branch
[13:26] <godbyk> looks like $6.52 for the cheap paper and $9.70 for the nicer paper.
[13:26] <humphreybc1> and give godbyk's dreamhost server an aneurysm
[13:26] <humphreybc1> heh
[13:26] <humphreybc1> + shipping is...?
[13:26] <godbyk> no clue
[13:26] <humphreybc1> okay
[13:26] <godbyk> won't know 'til you get to the checkout process, I imagine.
[13:26] <humphreybc1> i was going to do the math and currency conversion to see if i can afford more than one copy :P
[13:27] <humphreybc1> (of my own creation, fitting, really)
[13:28] <humphreybc1> anyone else use Pidgin in here?
[13:28] <humphreybc1> (as an IRC client)
[13:29] <godbyk> I use pidgin, but not for irc.  I use xchat for that.
[13:29] <godbyk> (and not that watered-down gnome version, either!) :)
[13:29] <daker> xchat too
[13:29] <godbyk> okay, guys. I'm gonna head to bed.
[13:29] <godbyk> I'll be back in 6-8 hours.
[13:30] <humphreybc1> kk
[13:31] <c7p> on string 1285 it says "Not sure about this bit - probably needs to be fleshed out some more for next release --jaminday" and under this string there is a 'type: comment'
[13:31] <humphreybc1> c7p: is that in the final PDF?
[13:31] <c7p> no
[13:32] <humphreybc1> okay, good!
[13:32] <c7p> i can find it on launchpad
[13:32] <godbyk> at least I hope it's not
[13:32] <humphreybc1> don't translate it
[13:32] <c7p> and other similar strings
[13:32] <c7p> ok
[13:32] <godbyk> if it is, tell me where and I'll fix it when I awake.
[13:32] <godbyk> I need to figure out how to get po4a to just not even mention the comments to the translators.
[13:32] <godbyk> we also need to remove all the obsolete comments sometime.
[13:32] <humphreybc1> yeah
[13:33] <c7p> yeah there are some of them
[13:33] <humphreybc1> we should pour some more work into po4a
[13:33] <godbyk> maybe.  we'll look into the whole translation toolchain at some point.
[13:33] <thorwil> godbyk: there's about 1 tenth of a mm gap between a truly centered spine and the given offset from left side, but aside of that, the svg no conforms to the new measures ;)
[13:34] <godbyk> thorwil: awesome.
[13:34] <humphreybc1> godbyk, will the cheaper paper affect the thickness of the book?
[13:34] <godbyk> thorwil: since their printing process is rather inaccurate, that 0.1mm gap will be enlarged anyway. :)
[13:34] <godbyk> humphreybc1: probably, yes.
[13:35] <humphreybc1> godbyk: so does that mean my special edition will have screwed up covers?
[13:35] <godbyk> but since it's just a cheap copy, I'll use the same PDF and let lulu crop it or something.
[13:35] <thorwil> godbyk: good thing i'm not a mechanical engineer
[13:35] <godbyk> well, it won't be *that* different.
[13:35] <humphreybc1> okay
[13:35] <humphreybc1> i don't want some thing to show off that looks like it's been nuked
[13:35] <humphreybc1> that wouldn't be a good look
[13:35] <c7p> and another question. The https://translations.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/lucid-e1/+pots/ubuntu-manual/el/1283/+translate shouldn't be translated, right ?
[13:36]  * humphreybc1 likes how launchpad lets you link to exact strings
[13:36] <c7p> :p
[13:36] <humphreybc1> c7p: no, don't translate it
[13:36] <godbyk> standard paper says the spine width will be 27.24 pt.  Publisher grade says it should be 22.82 pt.
[13:36] <c7p> ok
[13:36] <godbyk> So a 5 pt difference in spine width between the two types of paper.
[13:37] <humphreybc1> godbyk, that's quite a big difference
[13:37] <godbyk> well, here are the full specs if you want to sweet-talk thorwil into design a cover for your one-off copy:
[13:37] <godbyk> Spine width: 22.82 Postscript points wide (0.317")
[13:37] <godbyk> Cover size: 1264.82 x 810 Postscript points (17.567" x 11.250")
[13:37] <godbyk> Spine begins: 621 Postscript points from the left (8.625")
[13:37] <humphreybc1> do lulu have somebody actually check the books as they go out? ie, not machiens
[13:38] <godbyk> no clue.
[13:38] <humphreybc1> sigh
[13:38]  * thorwil crosses arms in front of chest and stares at godbyk and humphreybc1
[13:38] <humphreybc1> i guess i'll just cross my fingers my edition isn't screwed up
[13:38] <godbyk> humphreybc1: pretty much, yeah.
[13:38] <humphreybc1> thorwil: entirely up to you if you want do a one off cover :)
[13:38] <humphreybc1> (with the smaller spine)
[13:39]  * godbyk fears inkscape will just barf all over it
[13:39] <godbyk> and, thorwil, just think of all the covers for all the translations.. :-)
[13:40] <godbyk> (they'll have varying page counts, so varying dimensions.  joy!)
[13:40] <humphreybc1> oh god, all the translations will be different
[13:40] <godbyk> and with that good cheer, I think I'll go dream happy dreams.
[13:40] <godbyk> see you guys later!
[13:40] <humphreybc1> :D
[13:40] <c7p> cu
[13:41] <c7p> when will the next meeting take place ?
[13:41] <humphreybc1> not sure, sometime after release
[13:41] <c7p> ok
[13:41] <humphreybc1> probably during the week, actually
[13:41] <c7p> this week?
[13:41] <humphreybc1> maybe
[13:41] <thorwil> humphreybc1: 1.5 mm difference in spine width. if lulu accepts the too large whole width, the effect of chopping that bit off should be so negligible that i will not care for a one-off
[13:41] <humphreybc1> maybe next week
[13:41] <c7p> oh
[13:42] <humphreybc1> thorwil: ahh, fair enough then
[13:43] <thorwil> humphreybc1: if there shall be translated lulu covers, we need something more clever than manual fiddling
[13:44] <humphreybc1> true
[13:45] <thorwil> one could assemble the static front and back with a spine of varying width (spine content simply centered), but the wave of friends running across all 3 ruins that option
[13:47] <daker> humphreybc1, i need a small sentence
[13:47] <daker> something like this
[13:47] <daker> You Language doesn't exist click here to get informed when complet
[13:48] <daker> Your*
[13:49] <humphreybc1> kk one sec
[13:51] <humphreybc1> thorwil: can we do some magical tile pattern with the wave of friends?
[13:52] <humphreybc1> daker, "We're sorry, but the language you have selected hasn't finished being translated. To help with the translation, click here or to find out when this translation is available, click here."
[13:52] <humphreybc1> actually
[13:53] <humphreybc1> "We're sorry, but the language you have selected hasn't finished being translated. To help with the translation, click here, otherwise enter your email address below and we'll let you know when it's done."
[13:54] <thorwil> humphreybc1: hmm? the way the cover layout works, with horizontal positions of some elements related to the dots (or gaps), you need to treat the entire content as one block and just put it on page of the appropriate width to have enough material for the spine
[13:54] <humphreybc1> right
[13:55] <daker> how can we email people ? feedburner ? or what ?
[13:55] <humphreybc1> daker: not sure... you'll have to talk to godbyk about setting up some database or something
[13:55] <thorwil> humphreybc1: you know i'm not a native speaker, but doesn't that sentence suggest the language itself is occupied with being translated?
[13:56] <humphreybc1> thorwil: what I meant was take a little slice of the wave of friends and repeat it
[13:56] <humphreybc1> thorwil: yes, but we'll only be listing languages that are actually being worked on
[13:56] <humphreybc1> oh
[13:56] <humphreybc1> wait
[13:56] <humphreybc1> i see what you mean
[13:56] <humphreybc1> ""We're sorry, but the manual hasn't finished being translated into the language you selected. To help with the translation, click here, otherwise enter your email address below and we'll let you know when it's done.""
[13:56] <humphreybc1> there, that's better. sorry
[13:56] <godbyk-android> Daker: I think I emailed you some language for that a while back, but I might be wrong.
[13:57] <godbyk-android> (not at my computer now)
[13:58] <thorwil> humphreybc1: i can give you the smallest repeatable part of the wave of friends, if you see a use for that
[13:58] <godbyk-android> As for emails, just collect then in a database table four now (including the language they're looking for) and I will set up announce lists later
[13:59] <daker> godbyk-android, oki
[13:59] <humphreybc1> thorwil: well what I was thinking is just have the wave expand if the spine gets wider, or reduce if the spine gets thinner. Or, actually, why not just run the circle of friends over the top of the thing and it won't matter if it expands or reduces in size, as long as the text is centered between the two rules
[14:01] <godbyk-android> Just let the wave extend beyond the page borders and crop it to the page on expert to pdf
[14:02] <humphreybc1> yeah
[14:02] <humphreybc1> exackery
[14:02] <thorwil> humphreybc1: we are likely talking about very few mm. not enough to add elements to the wave or take them out. the wave does extend beyond the page
[14:02] <godbyk-android> Export rather
[14:02] <thorwil> godbyk-android: that's what happens
[14:02] <humphreybc1> thorwil: so what's the problem exactly?
[14:03] <godbyk-android> Maybe I'm not following what humphreybc1  is on about then.
[14:03] <thorwil> humphreybc1: at some point things will become funny if you make the page wider for a wider spine, as the wave pattern is placed such that no heads are cut
[14:04] <humphreybc1> ah, right
[14:05] <godbyk-android> We could scale the band to keep the proportions and cuts.
[14:05] <thorwil> forgot to add a frame, but: http://www.foopics.com/showfull/3a77c8b5755489b1869af9d0c9097e80
[14:06] <thorwil> see how everything is locked
[14:06] <thorwil> anyway, coffee, bbl
[14:06] <humphreybc1> lol
[14:07] <humphreybc1> godbyk, http://twitter.com/davidsiegel latest tweet
[14:09] <godbyk-android> Agreed
[14:09] <humphreybc1> godbyk-android: looks like they could use some of our help in gathering more data :P
[14:11] <humphreybc1> we should build data collection into the PDF, so we can track which areas get read the most... implants in readers eyes
[14:20] <humphreybc1> http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=610
[14:20]  * humphreybc1 does want
[14:28] <humphreybc1> daker: Could you please add Chris Woollard to the contributors list under "translators" ?
[14:34] <daker> sure
[16:29] <ubuntujenkins>  /me shouts at quickshot and goes back to revision
[16:29]  * ubuntujenkins shouts at quickshot and goes back to revision
[16:30] <dutchie> yay, revisino
[16:31] <ubuntujenkins> its electronics so not bad
[18:13] <ChrisWoollard> RE: the final draft. The translators layout on the credits looks a little odd.  It feels like the "any many others" looks like it is in the wrong place.
[18:13] <daker> hhhhhh what
[18:15] <daker> ChrisWoollard, i think it in the right place
[18:15] <daker> it's*
[18:16] <daker> and not 'any many others' => 'and many others' :D
[18:36] <ChrisWoollard> maybe you are right. It is probably me thinking horizontal alignment rather than vertical columns.
[18:36] <daker> ah
[18:36] <ChrisWoollard> Also I don't think I was thinking in the right order
[18:36] <daker> so you should speak to godbyk
[18:36] <ChrisWoollard> my children wanted to watch shaun the sheep
[18:37] <daker> lol
[18:37] <ChrisWoollard> :)
[19:06]  * ubuntujenkins today is not my day quickshot is driving me up the wall
[19:06] <daker> what's wrong ?
[19:07] <ubuntujenkins> well the main branch has stopped working since this morning. but there has been no commits and a new branch on my computer doesn't work
[19:08] <ubuntujenkins> and all the other quickshot stuff i have tried to do today has failed
[19:09] <daker> wow
[19:40] <thorwil> godbyk, godbyk-android: added and pushed titlepage/lulu_en.pdf. (still no ubuntu logo)
[19:40]  * ubuntujenkins finally works out why it didn't work
[19:41] <daker> ubuntujenkins, when we can start to work on the server side ?
[19:42] <ubuntujenkins> daker: when you like, i suggest you speak to Red_HamsterX, but I would like to start getting a page on quickshot.ubuntu-manual.org about the project
[19:42] <ubuntujenkins> Red_HamsterX: deals with the server stuff
[19:43] <daker> the reply from the serer should be in xml ? json  ? or plain text ?
[19:45] <ubuntujenkins> not really sure but currently we are reading a text file to get the info for what screenshots need to be done. the gui is my side really Red_Hamster-X is server. I have no server experince.
[19:47] <daker> you can try to write something that can read xml file or that interpret json format
[19:51] <ubuntujenkins> I will always try, tbh i have not read an xml file or a json file even with my eyes. I still don't know very much python I have allot to learn this release
[19:51] <daker> oki
[19:52] <dutchie> python has a json module built in
[19:52] <dutchie> pretty sure there's an xml one too
[19:53] <dutchie> yes, there is
[19:53] <ubuntujenkins> ok i will look at those. There may have been a reason behind using plain text i don't know
[19:55] <daker> ubuntujenkins, you should
[19:55] <daker> xml format is very easy to interpret than the plain text
[19:58] <daker> brb
[19:58] <daker> .quit
[20:15] <daker> thorwil, ping
[20:17] <thorwil> daker: pong
[20:17] <daker> the bug you found (the footer) still exist ?
[20:17] <daker> try see pls
[20:18] <thorwil> daker: footer layout is different now, but still running out of the page
[20:19] <daker> ubuntujenkins, running FF 3.5.9 ?
[20:20] <thorwil> daker: http://www.foopics.com/showfull/5685fd040678c5d0d4aa7a4c20169c8c
[20:20] <ubuntujenkins> daker: 3.6.3
[20:20] <daker> the footer looks odd ?
[20:21] <ubuntujenkins> in english it is fine in german it is.........
[20:21]  * ubuntujenkins uploads pic
[20:22] <ubuntujenkins> http://imagebin.org/94702
[20:23] <daker> very odd because i am running 3.5.9 too
[20:26] <daker> the same thing as ubuntujenkins http://imagebin.org/94703
[21:14]  * ubuntujenkins gives up and goes to bed
[21:14] <daker> night ubuntujenkins
[23:04] <ChrisWoollard> How often to manual builds on http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/ get rebuild?
[23:06] <ChrisWoollard> I mean rebuilt
[23:08] <ChrisWoollard> godbyk: How often to manual builds on http://builds.ubuntu-manual.org/ get rebuilt?
[23:08] <godbyk> ChrisWoollard: Whenever I happen to get around to running the script.
[23:08] <dutchie> heh
[23:10] <ChrisWoollard> fair enough
[23:11] <godbyk> It's not automated yet. It's just a bash script that I run after I've pulled the latest translations from Launchpad.
[23:11] <godbyk> I'll run it again in a moment.
[23:11] <godbyk> My Internet is on the fritz again today, apparently.
[23:12] <dutchie> again?
[23:13] <godbyk> dutchie: apparently.
[23:13] <dutchie> hmm
[23:13] <dutchie> stupid b\r
[23:13] <ChrisWoollard> I know the feeling. I couple of weeks about I went away for the weekend and ended up staying in a place that had no Internet and only a very weak GPRS :(
[23:13] <dutchie> bzr*
[23:14]  * dutchie regrets not using git from the start
[23:15]  * godbyk pines for the simpler days of CVS.
[23:15] <godbyk> Okay, not really. :)
[23:17] <dutchie> I now have a choice: 1) wait for someone in #bzr to tell me the bzr translation of "git add -p", 2) commit a massive mess of files that are all tangled up together or 3) carry on working and hope that I can untangle later
[23:17] <dutchie> I suspect I'm going to end up with number 3
[23:17] <dutchie> stupid disorganised workflow
[23:19] <dutchie> I'll hope someone comes up with something overnight
[23:19] <dutchie> night
[23:23] <godbyk> g'night, dutchie