[00:18] <ScottL> is anyone going to be able to test the latest ISOs?
[00:20] <ScottL> TheMuso, how long do you think we have to complete all test cases before the ISOs are to be released?
[00:20] <ScottL> i realize that the 29th is the release date
[00:20] <TheMuso> ScottL: Has there been a new iso notification to the dev list?
[00:21] <ScottL> i'm working on it right now
[00:21]  * TheMuso notes he had a public holiday yesterday so is still going through email from the weekend etc.
[00:21] <ScottL> one came to me (i was subscribed) just today
[00:21] <TheMuso> ah ok.
[00:21] <TheMuso> ScottL: I'd say we have till Thursday.
[00:21] <ScottL> but strangely i wasn't subsribed to the 64bit test though :?
[00:22] <ScottL> but isn't thursday the 29th
[00:23] <ScottL> TheMuso, and just to be clear:  if we don't get all test cases complete the final release of the ISO will NOT happen?
[00:23] <persia> Right, but that shouldn't happen.
[00:23] <TheMuso> ScottL: Correct
[00:24] <persia> The release team will make an increasing amount of noise as the deadline looms.
[00:24] <ScottL> persia, you say that in an egnimatic way....oh, you answered my question, heh
[00:26]  * TheMuso sighs. Jack is going to get a whole lot more messy.
[00:28] <persia> TheMuso: In general, yes, but can't we just pick jack2 and have it just work for us?
[00:28] <TheMuso> persia: Yes. Looks like squeeze will have jack2 by default anyway.
[00:28] <TheMuso> The multimedia guys will get jack2 in, and then worry about supporting multiple implementations later.
[00:28] <TheMuso> Which is fine for us. Jack2 in squeeze will use the same package namespace, which is a no-brainer for us.
[00:30] <persia> RIght, and I think we can (mostly) ignore the supporting-multiple-implementations bit, as long as the solution includes supporting the implementation we selected.
[00:30] <ScottL> i wonder how performance is for jack1 vs jack2     i've read a few post at the forums that were not favorable
[00:30] <TheMuso> Right. We can pick up the multiple implementatino stuff as a bonus later.
[00:32] <ScottL> email sent to -user and -dev list for testing reminder, although it may be a little corny :)
[00:33] <persia> TheMuso: I'd argue that whilst Ubuntu may want the multiple implementation stuff, the Ubuntu Studio team should focus on one solution considered best.
[00:33] <TheMuso> persia: I agree.
[00:33] <TheMuso> And since jack is in main, I feel its my responsibility to maintain it anyway.
[00:34]  * persia needs to chase harder to make "main" go away.
[00:34] <TheMuso> heh
[00:34]  * ScottL hadn't considered that jack2 wouldn't automatically be in the main, hmmmm
[00:36] <persia> ScottL: Let's wait-and-see: it may be that it can drop in without a code-review process.
[00:36] <crimsun> if I can make it to UDS-M, let's discuss the integration bits
[00:36]  * persia notes that even if "main" goes away, there will still be a code-review-process for some stuff
[00:36] <persia> crimsun: Is it schedule or ash that makes that a question?
[00:37] <crimsun> persia: I've transitioned to a position that requires me to be absent for 4-6 months per year, so prep for it is crimping my UDS-M planning
[00:38] <persia> crimsun: Ah.  Good luck with the new role, and I'll hope you are able to make it.
[00:40] <TheMuso> Jack2 is in unstable now, which will be great once Maverick opens.
[00:47] <ScottL> troy and i have been talking (stimulating as always), i think we could benefit by focusing Ubuntu Studio towards university students/audio labs
[00:52] <ScottL> hmmm, no one bit on that.  i'm surprised.
[00:53] <TheMuso> I have no thoughts on that either way.
[00:54] <crimsun> (sorry, I'm head-down looking at the abiword crasher) What's the scope of university students/audio labs?
[00:59] <ScottL> excellent question crimsun, that's what i'm hoping rlamerio, stochastic and i can research and discover
[01:00] <ScottL> but there are lots of them (students, and labs also i would imagine) and it would be great publicity to advertise
[01:01] <ScottL> and since they are in university i would imagine that a percentage of them would have an academic interest in ubuntu studio dev work
[01:02] <ScottL> assuming we are building ubuntu studio for users and we would like to acquire more users
[01:10] <ScottL> to be honest, i do not think our current user base is very broad or dynamic and provides minimal feedback and assistance
[01:10] <ScottL> i gave some thought to perhaps focusing on independent musicians or bands but they had two distinct disadvantageous 
[01:11] <crimsun> I certainly concur with the last part of that statement; most users don't really provide feedback
[01:11] <ScottL> 1) most were very likely to be ignorant of ubuntu or linux which would present a distinct and significant obstacle
[01:11] <persia> I don't think that's fair.
[01:12] <ScottL> not insurmountable, mind you but significant
[01:12] <ScottL> why do you say that persia?
[01:12] <persia> When my mother bought her new mic, she went to a Guitar Center, and the clerk there was very happy to help her with other Ubuntu issues whilst recommending a mic.
[01:12] <ScottL> really?  wow, that's outstanding!
[01:12] <ScottL> but i wonder how close that is to nominal
[01:13] <persia> His rationale for using Ubuntu was that it was cheaper than other OSs for audio production.  I imagine that same rationale would apply to a number of other folk.
[01:13] <ScottL> that is very, very true
[01:14] <persia> Used computers can be very inexpensive, and enable interesting things.
[01:14] <ScottL> 2) musician's may not be readily available or accessible
[01:14] <persia> (or rather, far too busy between the day job, rehearsing, and dealing with arranging gigs, etc.)
[01:14] <ScottL> absolutely, i've mentioned my outreach program before, that's what i'm doing, buy cheap computer and installing ubuntu studio on it, giving to a friend interested in recording music
[01:15] <ScottL> but an university offers a static, probably extremely assessable location and most likely very well defined hours
[01:16] <ScottL> they both share a concern about minimizing cost, although the university will have a fiscal budget
[01:17] <ScottL> depending on how liberal (or progressive) the school is, they might even have a open source program
[01:18] <ScottL> this also could translate into high schools, junior highs, and even elementary schools
[01:18] <ScottL> daniel james wrote an article about getting FOSS into his neighborhood school
[01:18] <ScottL> and as troy_s pointed out, these students grow up and take that experience with them
[01:19] <ScottL> reaching out to the schools might even be considered a form of advocacy :)
[01:20] <ScottL> with a quite potentially huge impact
[01:20] <persia> I think that's a sensible and good goal, but don't close the options for others.
[01:21] <persia> Consider instead providing a selection of tools that enables that model whilst still working for arbitrary folks just wanting to create.
[01:22] <persia> As much as I think it's a good idea to have a precise target audience for a flavour, I think it's essential to keep in mind the broader goal of ensuring that software for creators is of acceptable quality and well integrated.  We are respected for doing that now, and it would be a shame to lose that in favour of improving integration in scholastic environments (for which the edubuntu project already provides significant coverage)
[01:25] <ScottL> so, my dream of an audio only, no pulse audio, jack as only sound server, all apps built against jack, fits on a CD release is shattered?  ;)
[01:25] <rlameiro> lol
[01:26] <rlameiro> ScottL: we could try to do a UbuntuStudio JAck series
[01:26] <ScottL> pesia, what's the chances of us releasing two ISOs?
[01:26] <persia> ScottL: Why would you want everything agaisnt JACK?  1) not all software supports that, 2) I don't want to fuss about how my desktop alerts are processed.
[01:26] <ScottL> :P
[01:27] <persia> Exceedingly low unless there's an incredibly good reason.
[01:27] <ScottL> i'm kidding persia, sorry
[01:28] <persia> also, recognise that we share packages with the rest of Ubuntu, so we want to try to not do anything that makes any software not work in multiple environments.
[01:36]  * ScottL 's 3 yo has been crying about the walle movie :(
[01:36] <ScottL> sorry, persia, i was kidding about my jack only dream
[01:37] <ScottL> i know pulse is staying and quite frankly i'm glad were finally getting towards (hopefully) a good integration with jack
[01:37] <ScottL> i think that would be a huge milestone in the project, it certainly would gratify a lot of the users
[01:38] <persia> Indeed.  Before pulse, all was fine: audio was just broken, and people could use JACK.  Then it got confusing as polyp became pulse and started to make things work.  Soon we can get to the new place, where audio just works, and people can use JACK.
[02:16] <ScottL> rlameiro, did you file a bug against network-manager?
[02:17] <rlameiro> not yet
[02:17] <persia> Which bug against network-manager?
[02:17] <rlameiro> network-admin
[02:17] <ScottL> the one that rlameiro posted pictures of empty choices
[02:17] <ScottL> sorry, wrong package on my part
[02:18] <persia> OK.  The gnome-network-admin bug.  Right.
[02:18] <persia> I thought we had *another* one, and was worried.
[02:18] <rlameiro> lol
[02:18] <ScottL> sorry again, persia, i'm not trying to raise your blood pressure tonight, seriously :)
[02:19] <ScottL> but persia, if we get this bug addressed will it address many of the users concerns about networking?
[02:19] <ScottL> and by networking I was presuming they meant wi-fi
[02:19] <persia> Should do.  Looks easy to fix.  I don't believe we could get approval from the release managers to do it for lucid though.
[02:19] <persia> Mind you, it might expose some other bugs, but that's fine :)
[02:20] <ScottL> that's the price of progress sometimes :)
[02:20] <persia> (hard to know if we have networking bugs if we can't even access the network administration interface)
[02:21] <ScottL> but if we address the networking bug and get jack2/pulse audio playing nice, then that's a nice bit of improvement
[02:21] <ScottL> and would address the most common user complaints i believe
[02:22] <persia> Indeed, and if we sort those in maverick, although with other improvements, we ought be able to recommend all users to upgrade, and avoid too much pressure to do lots of LTS support.
[07:07] <jussi> Have you guys notcied this? http://www.lionstracs.com/store/
[07:10] <hansfbaier> jussi: SPAM?
[07:20] <jussi> hansfbaier: huh?
[07:21] <jussi> hansfbaier: just pointing out something that runs on linux, as featured on the kubuntu lead devs blog...
[07:50] <astraljava> jussi: I'm sure [s]he just doesn't recognize your nick. :D
[07:51] <jussi> astraljava: ahh, likely.
[08:29] <hansfbaier> jussi: was not to sure about the url, looked like some shady store out there, wasn't brave enough to open it.
[08:30] <hansfbaier> jussi: pretty cool gear
[08:34] <jussi> hansfbaier: :) thats fine. yeah, it looks pretty nice stuff
[09:38]  * abogani is wondering if someone of this Team will partecipate at UDS-m...
[09:47] <jussi> abogani: o/ me
[09:55] <abogani> jussi: Please if you'll have a chance could you show the needed for UbuntuStudio project to have a -lowlatency kernel or (more simply) the -preempt flavour for i386 also (it si already present but only for amd64)?
[10:25] <persia> jussi: FYI, Lionstracs used to ship with 64Studio.
[10:25] <jussi> persia: ahh
[10:43] <abogani> persia: Who is Lionstracs?
[10:44] <persia> abogani: A company that makes keyboards based on linux.
[10:46] <abogani> persia: Thanks.
[11:20]  * persia needs faster sync: the last sync job hasn't completed yet :(
[11:56] <ScottL> persia, do you mean for the ISO?  I noticed that it took quite a bit longer for me too, but i used zsync this time instead of rsync
[11:57] <persia> Yes, but the comment was mistargeted: it belonged in #ubuntu-testing :)
[12:00] <rlameiro> new test cases out
[12:01] <rlameiro> i will try to make the same test for AMD64
[12:01] <rlameiro> all but the encription one
[12:23]  * persia will do encryption again if someone else doesn't get to it first, but hopes to concentrate on bugfixing
[15:35] <persia> ScottL: You about?
[15:37] <persia> ScottL: Seems you're already in -release :)  Anyway, slangasek is hunting about release announcement stuff, and you seem like the right contact.
[15:55] <ScottL> persia, sorry, son has been sick and i'm staying home with him, not checking too often on channel
[15:55] <ScottL> but, yes, i am here, reading now
[15:55] <persia> Hope he gets better soon.
[15:56]  * abogani hope the same.
[16:02] <ScottL> he's feeling better already, but he was up (and so we were) a few times last night while he was vomiting :(  no fun for anyone
[16:04] <persia> Oh, good.  Annoying night, but better in the morning is always hugely calming.
[16:07] <ScottL> release notes complete
[16:16] <persia> Does slangasek know?
[16:20] <ScottL> yes, i told him in -release channel
[16:21] <persia> Cool.  Thanks a lot!
[16:24] <ScottL> that's what i'm here for :)
[16:24] <ScottL> if i couldn't get things done i probably wouldn't be here ;)
[16:29] <persia> heh
[17:40] <rlameiro> ScottL persia just submitted 3 test reports to the QA on the AMD64 iso
[17:41] <rlameiro> now is missing the encrypt one
[17:41] <persia> rlameiro: Thanks!
[17:41] <persia> rlameiro: I hope you linked the network bug, etc.
[17:41] <rlameiro> persia: i didnt
[17:41] <rlameiro> sorry
[17:41] <rlameiro> but i can modify it
[17:41] <persia> Please do.
[17:41] <rlameiro> is there a bug report on lp?
[17:42] <persia> We need to indicate that the release is buggy in the ways we know it to be buggy.
[17:42] <persia> You've been saying you'd file it :)
[17:42] <persia> But it's essential to have these bugs so we can verify the release notes cover them.
[17:42] <rlameiro> ok, i will try to do it now
[17:43] <rlameiro> i am on middle of teaching, a student is late, so i will strat to file the bug
[17:43] <rlameiro> where do i file it? ubuntustudio or general ubuntu?
[17:50] <ScottL> i'm hoping to get most of the i386 this afternoon
[17:51] <persia> rlameiro: Run `ubuntu-bug gnome-network-admin` on a finished lucid install (one of the tests)
[17:52] <rlameiro> persia: i am filing it directly on launchpad
[17:52] <persia> Please don't: the automated reporter adds all sorts of useful information.
[17:53] <persia> But if you really must, it's against /ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-tools
[17:58] <rlameiro> yes i knbow
[17:58] <rlameiro> i just need to know the package version
[17:58] <rlameiro> is anyone on 10.04
[17:59] <rlameiro> persia: the problem is that i cant do that because i dont have network in 10.04.....
[17:59] <persia> OH, heh, right.
[17:59] <persia> Don't worry about the version then.
[17:59] <persia> Nor about the automatic filing.
[17:59] <rlameiro> i will let a note, that i didnt filed the bug via apport because i didnt had network
[18:01] <rlameiro> !570828
[18:01] <rlameiro> how do i ask for the bug?
[18:01] <rlameiro> !ubottu 570828
[18:01] <rlameiro> lol
[18:01] <rlameiro> !bug 570828
[18:02] <persia> Thanks!  Now link it to your tests in the ISO tracker.
[18:02] <persia> (ask in #ubuntu-testing if the procedure isn't obvious)
[18:03] <rlameiro> persia: done
[18:03] <rlameiro> http://iso.qa.ubuntu.com/qatracker/test/4129
[18:28] <rlameiro> persia: please look at the bug
[18:28] <rlameiro> some guy made it invalid
[18:28] <rlameiro> ......
[18:28] <rlameiro> grrrrrrrrrrrr
[18:28] <rlameiro> why dont they read before
[18:38] <abogani> rlameiro: Studio don't use NetworkManager?
[18:40] <rlameiro> no
[18:40] <rlameiro> abogani: it uses gnome-network-admin
[18:42] <abogani> funny
[20:09] <ScottL> rlameiro, i set the bug back to new and explained to Milan that it's for ubuntu studio lucid (not hardy and not just ubuntu)
[20:09] <ScottL> hopefully i didn't make anyone upset :)
[20:10] <ScottL> and thanks for filing the bug
[20:10] <rlameiro> np
[20:49] <rlameiro> stochastic: thanks for changing the state of the bug...
[20:50] <rlameiro> persia: did you readed the bug?
[20:52] <rlameiro> they are debating why we dont use the network manager
[20:52] <rlameiro> maybe someone should expllain why ubuntustudio doesnt use it
[20:55] <stochastic> rlameiro, I did what to which bug?
[20:56] <rlameiro> stochastic: to the network bug
[20:56] <stochastic> how long ago was that?
[20:56] <astraljava> I think that was ScottL, not stochastic.
[20:57]  * stochastic thinks so too
[20:57] <rlameiro> arent you eric?
[20:57] <stochastic> yes I am, what's the bug number
[20:58] <rlameiro> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gnome-system-tools/+bug/570828
[20:59] <ScottL> i changed the bug
[20:59] <stochastic> yup, I haven't touched that one
[20:59] <rlameiro> ah
[20:59] <rlameiro> ok
[20:59] <ScottL> i'm sure there was a good reason for Studio's choices (i just wished i knew what it was)
[20:59] <rlameiro> oops
[20:59] <rlameiro> yeah
[21:00] <rlameiro> i must imagined that
[21:00] <rlameiro> sorry stochastic 
[21:02] <astraljava> I think persia explained it just a day or two ago, something to do with using resources all the time scanning for wireless networks etc (NetworkManager), instead of just using resources when user actually configures networking (gnome-network-admin).
[21:03] <astraljava> Dig back from the backlog, it shouldn't be too hard to find. :)
[21:03] <stochastic> ^^ yes, and the added fact that many studio boxes will not need to be connected to the internet in a true studio setup
[21:04] <rlameiro> stochastic: well, that doesnt seems to me like the majority of the cases...
[21:04] <stochastic> rlameiro, I wasn't involved in the decision, I just recall that as one of the talking points at the time
[21:04] <rlameiro> astraljava: they are asking for that info, maybe i cant point them to the logs
[21:04] <rlameiro> stochastic: I know
[22:36] <ScottL> amd64 ISO full disk w/ encryption test case still needs to be completed
[22:37] <ScottL> i386 ISO test cases are all complete
[23:01] <TheMuso> WHo is writing a release announcement?
[23:15] <detrate> nice, I just got my new Hercules DJ Control Steel in
[23:25] <ScottL> TheMuso,  i think stochastic did it last time, but what does it entail?
[23:25] <ScottL> isn't it just mainly the release notes?
[23:26] <TheMuso> ScottL: yes
[23:26] <TheMuso> slangasek: was asking about them in #ubuntu-devel.
[23:27] <ScottL> i believe i took care of that TheMuso   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuStudio/10.04release_notes
[23:28] <TheMuso> ScottL: ok does slangasek know about that?
[23:28] <ScottL> persia pointed me at where slangasek was asking about release notes and i took care of it and then told him so
[23:28] <ScottL> TheMuso, yes
[23:28] <TheMuso> ScottL: ok thanks
[23:28] <ScottL> always glad to help
[23:36] <ScottL> persia: will you be able to get the last amd64 test (w/ encryption) ?