[00:18] c [00:21] TheMuso: nice team for audio now [00:22] crimsun: indeed === Amaranth_ is now known as Amaranth [05:32] Good morning [05:33] good morning [05:35] Morning pitti. Still getting used to you being around at this time. [05:35] TheMuso: so am I :) [05:37] Morning pitti. [05:37] hey RAOF [06:17] Hey pitti RAOF TheMuso [06:17] hey rickspencer3 [06:17] Hey rickspencer3. [06:17] burning the midnight oil? [06:17] pitti, nah, just finishing up some packing [06:17] and going to bed [06:17] looong day tomorrow [06:18] rickspencer3: ah, you're leaving early tomorrow? [06:18] pitti, not really [06:18] flight is 12h50 [06:18] rickspencer3: hm, going eastwards rather means it's pretty short? :-) [06:18] if you count it that way, yeah [06:18] I think it's loong because it goes form tomorrow am in Seattle to Friday night in Amsterdam ;) [06:18] :) [06:19] pitti, so, word on the street seems to be that upgrades are going ok [06:19] what have you heard? [06:19] nothing really about upgrades, it's pretty quiet [06:19] is it quiet [06:19] * pitti is currently wading through reviewing the 44 SRUs that already piled up :) [06:19] or [06:20] quiet ... too quiet [06:20] ? [06:20] 44 SRUs, oh my [06:20] pleasingly quiet :) [06:20] and they can't wait until 10.04.1 [06:20] ? [06:20] pitti is nice, and not leaving them all for seb128 :) [06:21] how do you mean? [06:21] they will go into 10.04.1, of course [06:21] but we can accept them now, so we should :) [06:21] pitti,ok [06:22] I don't know how you plan to handle releasing SRUs now, versus waiting for 10.04.1 [06:22] I know sometimes you fix serious issues with an SRU before the release is even out [06:22] rickspencer3: 10.04.1 is nothing special wrt. SRUs [06:23] it just bundles up the changes that we did to -updates and -security so far and builds new images [06:23] oh, I see [06:24] I thought there would be maybe a bit more leniency for SRU criteria for 10.04.1, and also perhaps less urgency for SRUs before then [06:24] And afaik helps a little with hardware enablement with the installer. [06:24] rickspencer3: leniency> we are for LTSes, yes [06:24] * rickspencer3 chalks up another thing learned about Ubuntu [06:24] we allow more "polish" type SRUs [06:24] kewl [06:25] but if we have a fix for a bug, it can go to -proposed and then to -updates [06:25] that makes sense [06:25] rickspencer3: the longer we wait, the smaller is the chance that it'll hit -updates soon enough to get into the next point release [06:25] maybe as your last think as tech lead for Lucid, you can talk me through it at UDS [06:25] ;) [06:26] I'm happy to [06:26] everything you say makes sense, naturally ;) === almaisan-away is now known as al-maisan [06:27] pitti, I'll be back in about 8 hours, ttyt [06:27] g'night TheMuso, RAOF, robert_ancell [06:27] rickspencer3: sleep well, and safe travels! [06:27] rickspencer3: gnight [06:27] pitti, I hope we chat in (my) morning, so you can tell me that everything is still nice and quiet :) [06:30] rickspencer3: good night [06:31] rickspencer3, bye [07:47] * pitti -> off for an hour of running and breakfast [08:37] re [08:38] good morning [08:39] good morning didrocks [08:40] bonjour didrocks [08:40] didrocks: did you sleep well? [08:41] hey RAOF [08:42] Guten Morgen pitti, yeah, hard to find some sleep yesterday but hard to wake up too :) I think that I'll be perfectly retablished tomorrow :) [08:43] didrocks: good to hear [08:43] * pitti goes on banging hard on the lucid-proposed queue [08:45] pitti: good luck ;) [08:47] pitti: oh, before I forgot, tomorrow morning, they will cut the power for the building from 9am to 11am. So, I'll be there a little bit late [08:47] didrocks: np; it's the day after release, don't worry about slacking :) [08:48] * didrocks notes down in his agenda "can be a slacker tomorrow" [08:49] robert_ancell, didrocks: I'll reject your two gedit uploads and reupload with a fixed -v, FYI [08:50] pitti: what did I do wrong? [08:50] didrocks: nothing, but robert_ancell uploaded a newer version on top without -v [08:51] (and no bug refs) [08:51] -v? [08:51] oh, ok, just grabbed the branch now [08:51] bzr bd -S -- -v2.30.0git20100413-0ubuntu1 [08:51] robert_ancell: -v [08:51] robert_ancell: so that the source.changes contains all relevant changelog entries for -proposed [08:52] pitti, oh, didn't know about that [08:52] it's an idiosyncracy of how we track SRU changes and verification [08:56] hey didrocks pitti [08:56] hey robert_ancell [08:56] salut seb128 [08:56] bonjour seb128! comment vas-tu? [08:56] happy release day! [08:56] pitti, très bien merci, et toi ? [08:56] pitti, to you too ;-) [08:56] didrocks, ca va mieux ? [08:56] seb128: je sui beien [08:56] bien [08:57] seb128: bien mieux, merci, encore le nez un peu pris et des éternuements, mais demain, ça devrait être passé :) [08:57] didrocks, ok, bien ;-) [08:57] didrocks, robert_ancell: you guys duplicated work? or did robert_ancell did extra changes to gedit? [08:57] extra changes [08:58] ok [08:58] didrocks -> .1, robert -> .2 [08:58] robert_ancell, you want to check things you sru [08:58] seb128: working from bzr helps :) [08:58] robert_ancell, file-roller 2.30.1 is useless and there is a 2.30.1.1 with a bug fix though [08:58] seb128, hey [08:58] don't worry, it was zero effort; bzr bd -S, dput, done [08:58] seb128: oh, should I reject it then?\ [08:58] robert_ancell, same for eog there is no code change there since we don't use libjpeg8 [08:59] have to go, be back in a while... [08:59] pitti, well I'm not decided how useful it is to do update to import translations update only [08:59] robert_ancell, have fun [08:59] seb128: robert_ancell I'm on file-roller 2.30.1.1 btw [08:59] enjoy robert_ancell [08:59] pitti, you can block file-roller until didrocks does the newest update [08:59] seb128, didrocks: if file-roller 2.30.1 only updates translations, and we're going to have an .1.2 anyway, we can reject it [09:00] pitti, ok, do it ;-) [09:00] right, I will, since it doesn't refer to a bug anyway [09:00] robert_ancell: ^ needed for tracking verificatin [09:00] pitti: yeah, that's why I didn't upload 2.30.1 yesterday ;) [09:01] waouh, reading lucid-changes [09:01] sru goes through already today ;-) [09:03] * pitti bows [09:04] robert_ancell: rejecting seahorse, needs a bug ref for tracking verification [09:04] robert_ancell: please add one and reupload (same version number) [09:05] robert_ancell: gucharmap -> same problem, and changelog should list the changes [09:06] robert_ancell: eog> dito [09:06] robert_ancell: brasero/gnome-games, too [09:07] sorry [09:18] pitti: what's the procedure if, while a package is still in -proposed, a new sru has to be prepared ? [09:18] kklimonda: for being able to sensibly test, it's best to avoid this in the first place [09:19] kklimonda: if you need to, please upload the newer one with -v, so that the source.changes contains all versions currently being in -proposed [09:19] robert_ancell, pitti: quite some of those have no code change interesting for ubuntu (like 1 fix in a library or option we don't use), do we want to do such updates for translations only? [09:20] or cleaning gtk apis used to be current ones [09:20] which we don't really care since the current versions build on lucid [09:20] seb128: translations are relatively interesting, although we could of course also upload them manually (more effort, though) [09:21] we need what danilo blogged about to be working ;-) [09:37] hello everyone [09:40] hey chrisccoulson [09:40] hey didrocks, how are you? [09:41] chrisccoulson: I'm feeling better than the last days, thanks ;) you? [09:41] yeah, i'm not too bad thanks [09:41] hey chrisccoulson, good morning [09:42] hey pitti, how are you too? [09:42] chrisccoulson: I'm great [09:42] I think I'm getting used to getting up at 6 :) [09:42] heh, i struggle to get up that early ;) [09:42] i go to bed too late [09:43] so, is everyone excited for the release today? [09:46] chrisccoulson: I have to, since my wife does (and also goes to bed at 22:30) [09:46] and we just have one room here in Munich [09:48] pitti: I checked about the bug #544639 and I can say the bug is fixed, what should I do, readd the tag verification-needed and drop a comment? [09:48] Launchpad bug 544639 in evince "evince doesn't remember the window size" [Low,Fix committed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/544639 [09:49] didrocks: oh, please do (and ask the reporter for further information) [09:49] didrocks: v-failed just means that the bug will stay open once it goes to -updates [09:50] didrocks: if an update actually breaks stuff, it'll be tagged regression-proposed [09:50] didrocks: I rejected empathy, see bug 566909 [09:50] Launchpad bug 566909 in empathy "Offline contacts not shown by default" [Unknown,Fix released] https://launchpad.net/bugs/566909 [09:50] pitti: yeah, you have some inputs from upstream there [09:50] didrocks: just responded [09:51] * pitti grumbles about the design team [09:51] what? changing the default? [09:51] do they always talk to people who don't listen? ... [09:51] we should not do that in a sru [09:51] seb128: right, that's why I rejected the package [09:51] pitti: what do you mean? [09:51] seb128: (FWIW, we shouldn't do it at all, but for maverick for my sake; but in lucid, over my dead body) [09:52] hyperair: talking to offline contacts :) [09:52] lol [09:52] * didrocks likes talking to offline contacts, they alway agree with me ;) [09:52] always* [09:52] when I press ctrl+H I have four screenfuls of contacts [09:52] pitti, I've no strong opinion against try, out of the knee-jerk reaction that I hate having offline contacts listed and I don't see the point for those [09:52] many of them are ancient and probably disabled long ago [09:53] same here [09:53] seb128: right, but not in a lucid SRU [09:53] that for sure [09:53] no such crazy behaviour change in a stable version [09:54] seb128, note that change was made upstream on the request of ubuntu's usability tests ;) [09:55] seb128, I agree with that change for new users, but indeed it's a not good for users already using empathy [09:56] urgh, offline contacts shown by default? how is that good from a usability perspective? [09:56] i've got contacts i haven't touched in years [09:56] i should probably just delete them ;) [09:57] Zdra: you was talking about an hack like "consider the key to show offline key if less than 10 contacts" for instance. Seems reasonable for next release [09:57] but yeah, if you have more than few contacts, doesn't make sense :/ [09:58] didrocks, that's bong, we have to provide a coherent experience. Why display it if you have 10 contacts but not 11 ? [09:58] didrocks, IMO that would be good, yes... feel free to open upstream bug and attach patch ;) [09:58] i just tried turning on offline contacts, and it makes it more difficult to navigate to the online contacts [09:58] imagine doc or an user trying to explain something to another one if they don't experience the same behaviour... [09:58] cassidy: always the issue of limits right, but why cluttering the GUI for people having 50+ contacts ? ;) [09:58] (yes, they float to the top of the contact groups, but that doesn't help when you have more than a couple of groups) [09:58] chrisccoulson, it is really for people new to IM world that have just a few contacts [09:59] didrocks, it's easier for an user to think "Wow, too many contacts, how can I hide them?" than "Humm maybe there is an option to display offline ones" [09:59] chrisccoulson, like I create a gmail account for my mother and tell her to add my contact, if she does it when i'm offline, her contact list will stay empty and will wonder what's going on [09:59] anyway, we already had this discussion and agreed that displaying offline contacts was easier for new comers. Old users can just disable them in one click [10:00] chrisccoulson, my mother story is true story ;) [10:00] Zdra - ok, that does make sense [10:00] cassidy, maybe s/10/1/ [10:01] cassidy, just to force contact list to not be empty ? [10:01] well, of course we can always find cases where it will look weird [10:01] no, that's stupid. I'm pretty convinced displaying by default is the good thing to do. That will maybe annoy existing users but that's gconf's fault and, well, fuck them, they can click on one menu entry [10:05] cassidy, that was maybe true before facebook users [10:05] now anybody start with some hundred contacts [10:05] or any facebook user which seems to be an increasing number of users [10:06] in any case behaviour changes should not happen in stable series [10:06] I think making user click the "show offline" option is worth it because a) User is now aware of this option b) Simple user (such as Zdra's mom) are not confused by seeing an empty contact list [10:06] let's see how it goes next cycle rather [10:06] we can't win on all fronts [10:07] the debian guys put in well, stable means it should behave in a consistant way [10:07] not only stable in the sense of the changes landing there [10:07] oh, I'm not advocating to make the change in Lucid [10:08] I just feel kinda frustrated to have done this change based on Cannonical's input and see that it's not used by Ubuntu :) [10:09] pitti - have you seen bug 568926? [10:09] Launchpad bug 568926 in udisks "Missing udisks-tcp-bridge binary for remote management" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/568926 [10:09] we don't enable that in lucid [10:09] pitti - oh, i wasn't sure if that was the case or not [10:10] it's still too new, and a potential securiry/wreck your machine nightmare [10:10] i just tried connecting to my desktop with palimpsest and got a confusing error [10:10] we probably should have turned off the menu entry :( [10:10] we can do so in an SRU, for sure [10:11] chrisccoulson: OTOH you might connect from a lucid client to a maverick server :) [10:11] is the support missing on the server, or client? [10:11] yeah, that's what i was going to ask ;) [10:11] or, even if we enable it, it's still probable that the remote server just has that disabled [10:11] so maybe it doesn't actually make sense to disable the menu item [10:11] yeah, true [10:13] so the proper way to fix it would be better error reporting [10:13] chrisccoulson: I add a gdu task for improving the error message [10:13] staz: heh, exactly :) [10:14] pitti - i can't work out whether the binary is used on the client (by g-d-u), or the server (by udisks) [10:14] do you know? [10:14] I don't right now, sorry; I have never tried this so far [10:15] pitti - i've got a feeling it might be the client, in which case, there's probably not much security benefit from not including it is there? [10:15] when i tried to connect to my desktop, i got some hard-drive activity at the point i tried to connect [10:15] chrisccoulson: right [10:16] (but i don't know if that was coincedence or not) [10:16] chrisccoulson: there's still the "untested feature" aspect, though [10:16] it was added upstream after FF [10:16] ah, ok. i didn't realise that [10:21] right, i have a few errands this morning, so i will be away for a little bit [11:06] is it known that gdm debug symbols aren't available on i386 for 2.30? how can one debug crashes? === MacSlow is now known as MacSlow|lunch [11:15] hmm, which package should I assign this bug (https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store/+bug/529714) to? libc6 seems to be where nss stuff is, right? [11:16] Launchpad bug 529714 in rhythmbox-ubuntuone-music-store "rhythmbox crashed with SIGSEGV in _nss_wins_gethostbyname_r()" [Medium,New] [11:16] rodrigo_: yes, but that doesn't mean it is a libc6 bug [11:17] btw, it crashes only if wins is enabled in /etc/nsswitch.conf [11:17] james_w, right, hence my question :-) [11:17] right, now I look at the bug, it seems like it might be :-) [11:18] could be a glib/gio bug [11:18] winbind [11:18] I would say [11:19] since it's crashing in libnss_wins.so.2 === bjf is now known as bjf[afk] [11:19] seb128_, ok, so assigning it to winbind then [11:20] hmm, no package of that name [11:20] didrocks: empathy> merci [11:20] * rodrigo_ searches [11:20] rodrigo_, samba [11:20] it's comming from the samba source [11:20] ah [11:20] pitti: I didn't upload yet. I have an issue with no more indicator integration that I didn't have yesterday. I'm making further testing before pushing [11:21] (first, rebuilding older version) [11:21] didrocks: ah, thanks [11:21] https://bugzilla.samba.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5904 looks relevant [11:21] bugzilla.samba.org bug 5904 in libsmbclient "libnss_wins causes SIGABRT while servicing getaddrinfo() request" [Blocker,Resolved: fixed] [11:21] bug #369274 seems similar [11:21] Launchpad bug 369274 in glibc "SIGSEGV in _nss_wins_gethostbyname_r" [Undecided,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/369274 [11:21] seb128_, hmm, I think I marked it as duplicate yesterday [11:22] * rodrigo_ looks [11:22] ah, no, not that one [11:22] oh, it's from jaunty [11:23] it's not new right === seb128_ is now known as seb128 [11:36] pitti: let me respawn an autoreconf apparently for file-roller. I need to bump the version, right? [11:36] didrocks: argh; yes, I just accepted it, so new version [11:37] pitti: do I need to reopen a bug + debdiff and so on, or just add to existing one? [11:37] * didrocks updates his pbuilder this time [11:41] didrocks: use the existing one, it's fine [11:41] ok, thanks :) [11:44] didrocks: just ensure that you either re-use the same changelog record and bump the version, or use a new one and build with -v [11:44] pitti: sure, thanks [11:47] Hi, I need some help in figuring out what package to blame for the bug of the checkmarks in context menus showing up as white-on-grey [12:44] re [12:45] pitti, so new isos to test again today? [12:45] maxb, could you give details on the theme you are using and the context menu you get the issue in? [12:46] seb128: every menu, and I'm not aware of having customized my theme, but I'll look it up now [12:46] seb128, yes, for bug 570765 [12:46] Launchpad bug 570765 in ubiquity "[Lucid] no GRUB menu entry for other operating systems" [Critical,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/570765 [12:46] ogra, ok [12:47] As an example, look at the little blob next to "Only on This Workspace" when you right-click a title-bar [12:47] what theme do you use? [12:47] Human [12:47] what ubuntu version? [12:47] uptodate lucid [12:47] ok, let me try that, it's an outdated legacy theme [12:48] bah it's not even installed on lucid [12:48] Oh. What am I supposed to be using, then? [12:48] one of the new themes, ambiance is the default one [12:49] whoa, that's.... different [12:49] indeed ;-) [12:49] there is a light one too if you prefer those [12:50] hrm [12:50] Well, I hate it, but at least I have a better idea why the Human-theme context menus are broken [12:50] so thanks for that :-) [12:50] why do you hate it? [12:51] it's a theme bug anyway on the light theme the check mark are not white [12:51] so if you open a bug open if on the human theme [12:51] The light theme? How does that interact with the human theme? [12:52] ? [12:52] it's a theme like human [12:52] it's called radiance in the theme capplet [12:52] try this one if you don't like the default one [12:52] those are the new lucid themes [12:52] it's a theme bug anyway on the light theme the check mark are not white [12:52] so if you open a bug open if on the human theme [12:52] ^ I'm trying to understand the relationship between those two lines [12:53] well the theme define the color for those [12:53] not all theme have the issue you describe [12:53] so it's a bug in human [12:53] right. I shall file. [12:54] Is there something that's supposed to transition upgrading users to the new themes, that I've missed by upgrading back in the alpha days? [12:57] maxb, no, user settings are respected on upgrade [12:57] maxb, you would get the new theme if you never changed the one you use [12:58] maxb, you likely switched to something else and back to human one day, which wrote human as an user choise [12:58] That makes sense. thanks [12:58] we have a blueprint about better handling those cases for next cycle [12:58] ie users changing and getting back to the default [13:03] * ajmitch still had clearlooks set until an hour or so ago [13:03] ambiance is quite a change from that [13:04] * soren likes ambiance [13:04] * ajmitch prefers radiance on the laptop, but they're both quite good [13:06] my biggest complaint is that they are too-low-constrast in many places such as the task bar and inactive window decorations [13:21] hmmm, several people have reported now that they end up with gnome-screensaver running twice in their session [13:21] i wonder how to track that one down :-/ [13:24] seb128: yes :-/ [13:48] chrisccoulson: "now" -> recent regression? or since upgrade from karmic? [13:49] I guess it's since lucid but not really new since there has been no recent change [13:49] could be a race in the dbus activation change or something [13:50] pitti - since upgrade from karmic (bug 556255), reported on 6th april, but now multiple people seem to have the same issue [13:50] Launchpad bug 556255 in gnome-screensaver "unlock screen -dialog comes up twice" [Low,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/556255 [13:50] i thought maybe a race due to being activated by something in the session starting when gnome-session normally starts gnome-screensaver, but i can't see any obvious race yet which would allow 2 instances to run [13:51] seb128: I think I'm stuck at the empathy upgrade. 2.30.1-0ubuntu1 (not released) is using the indicator, but I can't have it using it with 2.30.1. configure phase is saying me "using libindicate: true" and I tried to revert each commit in trunk without any success. Do you have any clue for debugging? [13:52] didrocks, I don't understand the question [13:53] seb128: with 2.30.1-0ubuntu1, I can't get empathy using the indicators (it's fallbacking to the notification area) [13:53] didrocks, it's using the indicator but the same version can't use the indicator?! [13:53] hum [13:53] oupsss, it was a wrong copy and paste [13:53] 2.30.0.2 was working with the indicators [13:53] but it works with 2.30.0.2? [13:54] right (it was the first that I should have written in the initial sentence) [13:54] do you get any error if you run empathy on the command line? [13:54] is the preference option doing anything when you click on it? [13:55] no error on the command line [13:55] but the preference option (didn't know it) is not enabled [13:56] does it work if you enable it? [13:56] yes [13:56] so ok, the issue is something was a modified path, can work on that [13:56] try with a guest session to make sure it's not an user config issue? [13:56] well that change is an ubuntu one [13:56] well, can try that too :) [13:56] it's weird the path would have changed [13:57] seb128: yeah, but some paths changed (normally it was already in 2.30.0.2) to fix the "not picking some gconf settings", maybe it's an impact [13:57] but I didn't know this preference dialog, that will help me, thanks :) [13:58] ok, same thing in guest session, investigating [14:03] new desktop ISOs, please rsync/test [14:03] * kenvandine tests [14:05] pitti, I was just going to ask about those ;-) [14:13] hum, I wonder if schemas is still updated by schemas.in (as our value doesn't exist in empathy schema in the last version) [14:14] ok, I suck… think I found it… [14:14] ? [14:15] you changed the wrong file on a patch update? [14:15] ie an autogenerated one and not the source? [14:16] seb128: I patch the .schema file for the "hide offline user" thing. My guess is the target then is most recent that the source (the schemas.in file). So, our previous patch which add the indicator key to the schema.in isn't taken into account [14:16] s/most/more [14:16] s/that/than [14:17] didrocks, changing the schemas it not the right way [14:17] you should add a .gconf-defaults line fo rit [14:18] seb128: even for reverting an upstream change? (I mean, I thought we will revert it in next release) [14:18] gconf-defaults has been made to let the upstream schema in the upstream way and have a distro layout for distro changes [14:18] we will drop the .gconf-defaults line then [14:19] we designed that exactly for this usecase [14:19] seb128: well, we added the indicator key in the schema (ok… it's not tweaking an upstream value) [14:19] changing a key without changing the schemas [14:19] ok, can do that :) [14:19] well if you had a key and want descriptions you need to change the schemas [14:19] gconf-defaults doesn't allow to set key descriptions [14:19] had -> add [14:20] right, ok, got it [14:20] well, at least, that means that my testing wasn't so bad (I was afraid that I've pushed this error in previous upload) :) [14:20] ;-) [14:24] gir1.0-something-clutter-1.0 does not conflict on libclutter1.0-0 hard enough. [14:24] i think. [14:24] wait a sec, libclutter1.0-0 disappeared.. [14:26] oh nevermind [14:26] i had a newer clutter than the repository [14:28] hyperair: and apparently, it's a cluttered clutter :) [14:28] didrocks: heh yes, a very cluttered clutter. [14:29] * hyperair thinks our upgrade path could do with a little improving.. [14:29] though i was probably my fault for using a daily gnome-shell PPA + xorg-edgers.. [14:29] hyperair, didnt update-manager catch that ? [14:29] ogra: nope. [14:30] thats actually what it is supposed to do [14:30] ogra: i had a few newer-than-usual packages. [14:30] but from third party repos [14:30] ogra: that included libclutter-1.0-0, which aptitude didn't seem to like downgrading. [14:30] u-m checks for that [14:30] ah, way better for empathy one I stop being silly :) uploading now [14:30] * hyperair did do-release-upgrade -d [14:30] thats the same [14:30] but that should also be part of update-manager.. [14:30] yeah [14:31] ogra: does u-m take care of downgrading packaegs? [14:31]