[00:43] <stevecrozz> Trying to update a package in my PPA with a new upstream release and I'm getting "uupdate: a native Debian package cannot take upstream updates"
[00:43] <stevecrozz> what did I do wrong?
[00:59] <kaushal> hi
[00:59] <kaushal> daftykins: whats the stable release of FF on 9.04 ?
[01:00] <kaushal> whats the stable release of FF on 9.04 ?
[01:01] <virtuald> kaushal: see packages.ubuntu.com
[01:07] <kaushal> virtuald: where exactly
[01:07] <kaushal> http://packages.ubuntu.com/jaunty/
[01:07] <kaushal> i dont see browser section there
[01:09] <virtuald> below the "browse" list on the front page there's a search box
[01:09] <virtuald> it's in network anyway
[01:10] <virtuald> or maybe not
[03:25]  * ajmitch hopes maverick will be open soon :)
[03:27] <arand> ajmitch: 6th... ages away...
[03:27] <ajmitch> it is a long time
[03:29] <ScottK> It will be open when it's ready.  What's on the schedule is an estimate of when that will be.
[03:29] <imbrandon> evening ScottK
[03:29] <ScottK> Heya imbrandon.  Congratulations.
[03:29] <imbrandon> ScottK: ty ty
[03:30] <ajmitch> actually my main reason for wanting it open is to make sure that SRUs pushed to -proposed do get into maverick, unless there's a plan to copy from lucid-proposed to there
[03:32] <imbrandon> i dunno if it would copy from proposed, but -updates and and -security it does, so it might
[03:34] <ajmitch> usual SRU procedure is to fix in the development release first, I probably won't have enough fixes to land to end up forgetting them in maverick
[03:34] <micahg> RAOF: what do you think of putting a wrapper around gnome-shell for mozjs so we don't have to rebuild gjs every time xulrunner is updated?
[03:36] <imbrandon> wow i got to stop watching the -party , its exausting to say the least
[03:36] <ajmitch> imbrandon: yeah, quite a time-waster
[03:38] <imbrandon> hum so if i backport apt-mirror i would have to do a source-change backport ... the new packaging for lucid isnt backwords compatable even thgough the program is ... :(
[03:39] <imbrandon> rats
[03:43] <jpds> imbrandon: Install ubumirror.
[03:44] <imbrandon> jpds: for ?
[03:45] <ScottK> IIRC the last time around, pitti copied packages from -proposed to lucid.
[03:46] <imbrandon> jpds: apt-mirror is alot more flexable than ubumirror , plus i'm kinda upstream for apt-mirror ;) but in either case dosent help the backport issue
[03:52] <RAOF> micahg: That's not a bad plan.  Ideally it'd be ported to seed, which uses an actual javascript library, with an honest-to-goodness SONAME :).
[03:53] <micahg> RAOF: k, but until then, would you like me to make a wrapper proposal for an SRU?
[03:54] <RAOF> micahg: Maybe not - I think our current state is not having to rebuild gnome-shell, just libgjs, right?
[03:54] <micahg> RAOF: right, but to avoid rebuilding gjs, we have to put a wrapper around what uses mozjs, right?
[03:55] <micahg> RAOF: the workaround is to use a wrapper with LD_LIBRARY_PATH set
[03:55] <RAOF> Is it easy to set the right LD_LIBRARY_PATH across xulrunner upgrades?
[03:56] <ajmitch> I take it that xulrunner doesn't really believe in this binary compatibility thing?
[03:56] <RAOF> Are we likely to have any xulrunner upgrades?
[03:56] <micahg> RAOF: yes :), every month
[03:56] <micahg> ajmitch: no :)
[03:57] <RAOF> ajmitch: Correct.  mozjs is an aggressively internal library.
[03:57] <micahg> RAOF: yes, setting LD_LIBRARY_PATH with a wrapper is easy
[03:58] <RAOF> There's a nice pkg-config file, isn't there.
[03:59] <micahg> RAOF: there is, but I use xulrunner-1.9.2 --gre-version to decide which dir to use
[04:00] <RAOF> If we're going to have monthly bumps of the xulrunner nano version, then I support an SRU for gjs and gnome-shell to strip the rpath and introduce wrapper scripts.
[04:00] <micahg> RAOF: k, I'll work on it once I finish my current stuff
[04:01] <micahg> next update is May 13
[04:01] <micahg> hopefully, I can have an SRU ready before then
[04:03] <micahg> RAOF: what's going on?
[04:03] <RAOF> Bah.  ctrl-w is not the same as super-w
[04:04] <ajmitch> may we laugh quietly?
[04:04] <RAOF> You may laugh uproriously for all I care.  Particularly after I accidentally hit ctrl-w to tile my windows…
[04:05] <virtuald> you should use "emacs" keybindings :p
[04:07]  * micahg suggests conkeror :)
[04:08] <imbrandon> virtuald: we dont have enough fingers for emacs keybindings ;)
[04:10] <virtuald> gnome calls it emacs keybindings but it's more like readline keybindings
[04:11] <virtuald> http://kb.mozillazine.org/Emacs_Keybindings_%28Firefox%29
[04:14] <RAOF> Intriguing.  I now have two #ubuntu-motu tabs open, one of which is completely empty, and closing it closes the useful one.
[04:14] <ajmitch> RAOF: you have broken the internet
[04:14] <RAOF> I'm good at that.
[04:15] <micahg> RAOF: which client?
[04:17] <RAOF> Smuxi.
[04:17]  * micahg never heard of it, using Pidgin :)
[04:18] <imbrandon> im client for irc, never was my cup-o-tea
[04:19] <imbrandon> irssi + screen ( occasionaly quasail or gnome-xchat via irssi-proxy ) ftw
[04:20] <RAOF> smuxi is like irssi+screen, but GUI.  It's quite nice.
[04:29] <imbrandon> RAOF: but irssi+screen can use any gui you like :(
[04:30] <RAOF> imbrandon: As long as it's a console interface? :)
[04:30] <imbrandon> RAOF: no i use the gnome-xchat interface all the time for it
[04:31] <RAOF> It's also an irc proxy?  Nifty.
[04:31]  * RAOF didn't know that, obviously.
[04:31] <imbrandon> RAOF: yes it has a proxy built in
[04:33] <imbrandon> i just connect to my irssi on my linode server instead of freenode with the gui client ;)
[04:33] <imbrandon> or i ssh in to the linode server and load up the screen session, what ever i'm in the mood for
[04:34] <imbrandon> ( or more times than not, both via diffrent computers )
[04:34]  * ajmitch usually just uses irssi+screen
[04:35] <RAOF> irssi has a very usable interface.
[04:35] <imbrandon> yea i'd say 80% of the time i got the ssh+irssi route, but i still use the gui for times like when i'm coding so i can get libnotify messages
[04:39] <imbrandon> somone posted on planet howto get local libnotify messages form irssi+screen via ssh a while back ( a year or two ago ) but i never implmented it, i might go back and look for it
[04:39] <imbrandon> might be useful
[04:39] <ScottK> imbrandon: Just install quassel and quit worrying.
[04:40] <imbrandon> ScottK: hehe i have it installed , and gnome-xchat on mylaptop ;)
[04:43] <imbrandon> why can hardy-backports not have debhelper 7.0.50 installed :( makes me a sad panda
[04:46] <micahg> it's --with out it?
[04:49] <imbrandon> huh
[04:50] <ScottK> imbrandon: No inherent reason.  We backported debhelper once before.  No reason we couldn't again.
[04:56] <imbrandon> ScottK: it would make my life MUCH easier, is there alot of rdepends and stuff to check , it seems it would have alot of room for breakage since most all packages depend on it at build time
[04:56] <imbrandon> if not, lets do it :)
[04:57] <ScottK> imbrandon: But only stuff in backports, so it's ~safe.
[04:57] <imbrandon> then all these packages that use the new quilt 30 format can be backported without change
[04:57] <imbrandon> well assuming that would be the only change
[04:57] <ScottK> imbrandon: No.  That needs a new dpkg too.
[04:57] <ScottK> That I won't backport.
[04:57] <imbrandon> oh sh*t really ?
[04:57] <imbrandon> damn
[04:57] <ScottK> Switching those back isn't very hard.
[04:58] <ScottK> Actually Soyuz won't allow it anyway
[04:58] <imbrandon> true, i just dident wanna bother if i dident have to, but i guess i will
[04:59] <ScottK> Figure out what version of debhelper you want and then maybe do a test rebuild of a sampling of the packages currently in hardy-backports.
[04:59] <imbrandon> well if it needs dpkg too, then there is little point
[04:59] <imbrandon> but sure
[05:01] <micahg> imbrandon: I know all the main mozilla stuff is stuck using debhelper 6 conventions until hardy is EOL for Desktop
[05:03]  * micahg can't wait to move everything to use all the fancy stuff in Lucid debhelper
[05:03] <imbrandon> :)
[05:03] <micahg> it cuts the rules files in half usually or more (less to maintain)
[05:03]  * ajmitch can't wait until lucid is EOL & we have something new & shiny
[05:04] <micahg> ajmitch: lucid isn't out yet and you can't wait for it to be EOL?
[05:04] <ajmitch> micahg: sure, 5 years+1 day from now, things will hopefully be quite different
[05:04]  * micahg wondering what comes after light
[05:05] <ScottK> Go back and work on packages on Dapper and then see how far we've come.  It's got another year yet.
[05:05] <imbrandon> hahaha exactly
[05:05]  * ajmitch won't try & predict when ubuntu may be like in 5 years time
[05:06] <micahg> ScottK: I guess that's one of the advantages of working with desktop packages ;)
[05:06] <ajmitch> ScottK: some packages in lucid are still at the same version they were in dapper
[05:06] <imbrandon> ok so if i do packageing only changes to the version thats in lucid for hardy-backports ( on up for all the supported versions ) what do i version them ?
[05:06] <ScottK> ajmitch: It will have no options at all, just one big button to click.
[05:06] <crimsun> in 5 years, OEMs will still be screwing up audio hardware. Hooray?
[05:06] <ajmitch> ScottK: you must be talking about gnome
[05:06] <ScottK> ajmitch: Yes.
[05:06] <ajmitch> crimsun: realist
[05:06] <imbrandon> ScottK: 0.4.7-0ubuntu1~backport1 ?
[05:07] <ScottK> imbrandon: Where backport is the release, yes.
[05:07] <imbrandon> ScottK: yea $dist-backport is the release
[05:07] <imbrandon> ohh you mean 0.4.7-0ubuntu1~hardy1
[05:08] <imbrandon> and such
[05:08] <imbrandon> kk
[05:08] <ajmitch> it should actually work out,  given how release names progress these days
[05:09]  * ajmitch was only just in the last couple of days cleaning up some stuff left over from breezy development
[05:10] <ScottK> It's funny, sometimes I feel like the new guy here and sometimes it seems like I've been here forever.
[05:10] <ajmitch> yeah
[05:10] <imbrandon> ScottK: heh yea exactly the same boat
[05:10]  * ajmitch feels the same way at times
[05:11] <ajmitch> only been a MOTU for a bit over 5 years now
[05:11] <imbrandon> i think back i am like damn i rember breezys release, then i rember that was nearly 5 years ago
[05:11] <imbrandon> then i'm like WOW, i'm old hahhahahaha
[05:11] <ajmitch> I remember discussing how MOTU could use malone with bradb at UDU
[05:11] <ajmitch> since everyone else was using bugzilla still
[05:11] <imbrandon> :)
[05:12] <imbrandon> just a tad before me
[05:12]  * ajmitch remembers fondly the days of bugzilla with its 1MB JS file containing all the package names, loaded over HTTPS
[05:12] <ajmitch> no caching, just pain
[05:13]  * imbrandon came around about midway through breezy dev cycle iirc
[05:13] <RAOF> I remember that bugzilla.  Man, launchpad has become much, much more awesome.
[05:13] <ajmitch> RAOF: it's a lot less painful to use than it used to be
[05:14] <ScottK> If your claim to fame is > bugzilla, that's not much of a claim.
[05:14] <imbrandon> lol
[05:14] <ajmitch> ScottK: I never said LP was great, just less painful than it was
[05:14] <StevenK> imbrandon: Next year, I will have been a DD for 10 years.
[05:14] <RAOF> Well, I still see a lot of bugzilla instances :)
[05:14] <ajmitch> StevenK: you're old
[05:14] <StevenK> ajmitch: Shush.
[05:14] <imbrandon> StevenK: wow, i dunno if to say sorry or congrats, lol , j/k gratz man
[05:15] <ScottK> I don't think anyone else has to be old as long as I'm around.
[05:15] <ScottK> moko excepted.
[05:15] <imbrandon> :)
[05:15] <ajmitch> ScottK: a pity that phil charles hasn't worked on ubuntu
[05:15] <ajmitch> he's probably one of the older DDs that I know of
[05:16]  * StevenK is waiting for ScottK to get "upgraded" from old to ancient.
[05:16] <imbrandon> it is nice to look back at all of this and as much as we hate it sometimes and as much as we love it mostly to say we had a hand in some of it , be it small or big, kinda cool imho
[05:17] <imbrandon> you know there is one DD i wanna really meet someday , just from reading him on the planet, makes me wanna scrounge the money for debconf this year, is joey hess, dunno why really, just cuz
[05:17] <StevenK> Joey is an awesome guy
[05:17] <imbrandon> yea he seems so
[05:17]  * ajmitch needs to find out how to get the mouse working again in X without restarting X - x2x seems to have given it issues
[05:18] <StevenK> imbrandon: I met him at Debconf 5
[05:19] <imbrandon> i really should go this year too, one of the few years its in the US and would be cheaper for me to go
[05:19]  * ajmitch hasn't been to it yet
[05:20] <imbrandon> me either, i came really close to going to what #7 i thinkl, the one in mexico
[05:20] <imbrandon> 7 or 8
[05:20] <imbrandon> had funds and plans and such, but something else came up
[05:21] <imbrandon> i still vote for a UDS and/or ubucon in KC, dead middle of the US :)
[05:22] <ajmitch> might as well have one in NZ
[05:22] <ajmitch> that way everyone has to fly a long way
[05:22] <imbrandon> watch as soon as i take a job somewhere else ( just interviewed for a game company in vegas ) it will come to KC , LOL
[05:23] <ScottK> ajmitch: Bandwidth is better in KC.
[05:23] <imbrandon> lol
[05:23] <ScottK> Get Sprint to host it.
[05:23] <imbrandon> very true, all the fiber in the contry converges here, AND we're about to get a google fiber node
[05:23] <imbrandon> woot
[05:24] <imbrandon> i bet sprint really would host it too actualy thinking about it
[05:24] <imbrandon> i guess there is some things good about being in the middle , litterly
[05:25] <imbrandon> just sucks for me most of the time cuz i see all the cool tech stuff happening on the coasts and drool
[05:25] <lifeless> ajmitch: we'd saturate NZ's internet.
[05:25] <lifeless> :P
[05:26] <imbrandon> all 56k of it , lol j/k
[05:26] <jpds> The entire global infra of the world is about to saturate.
[05:27] <imbrandon> hahahah yea, in less than 24 hours
[05:27] <StevenK> imbrandon: Wow, when did NZ get upgraded to 56k?
[05:28] <imbrandon> StevenK: they are bonding 2 14.4 lines + overhead
[05:28] <imbrandon> :)
[05:28] <imbrandon> err thats still not right
[05:28]  * imbrandon facepalms
[05:28] <StevenK> 28k8?
[05:28] <imbrandon> yea
[05:28] <imbrandon> lol
[05:28] <StevenK> imbrandon: Fail
[05:29] <imbrandon> i know, i was like ooh good joke, then realized what i typed and was like ugh, fail again
[05:29] <ScottK> So it was a good joke, just not the one you planned.
[05:29] <imbrandon> :)
[05:30]  * ajmitch wishes he got those sort of speeds
[05:30] <imbrandon> heh seriously , what kinda connection do you normaly have to the greater globe ?
[05:31] <imbrandon> like 512k-ish at least ?
[05:31] <imbrandon> ( you not the country )
[05:31] <imbrandon> lol
[05:31] <ajmitch> nominally 16Mbps at the DSL modem
[05:31] <imbrandon> that dosent seem bad, better than mine
[05:32]  * StevenK is currently on 64/64 3.5GHz crap
[05:32] <ajmitch> Fetched 531MB in 17min 57s (493kB/s)
[05:32] <ajmitch> that was fetching from nz.a.u.c earlier
[05:32] <lifeless> ajmitch: ISP?
[05:32]  * wgrant is throttled to 64kbps at the moment :(
[05:32] <ajmitch> lifeless: snap.net.nz
[05:32] <imbrandon> not terrible, thats about what i get to us.a.u.c
[05:32] <lifeless> wgrant: too many lp branches?
[05:32] <imbrandon> wgrant: ouch
[05:33] <lifeless> imbrandon: us.a.u.c is London though.
[05:33] <StevenK> wgrant: Same, but this connection is much worse.
[05:33] <imbrandon> lifeless: really ? heh
[05:33] <wgrant> Although on the 1st we move from our current 10Mbps 12/24 to a new 20Mbps 85/85, so I can't complain too much.
[05:33] <lifeless> last I heard, yes.
[05:33] <imbrandon> wow
[05:33] <ajmitch> lifeless: you still sorting out an ISP?
[05:33] <lifeless> ajmitch: with telecom at this rental property
[05:34] <lifeless> ajmitch: works okish but similarly shitty actual throughput
[05:34] <lifeless> ajmitch: and the nasty intercepting cache too
[05:34] <wgrant> imbrandon: Nobody wants to take on the full US load, apparently.
[05:34] <ajmitch> yeah
[05:34] <lifeless> wgrant: nobody *can*
[05:34] <imbrandon> i have an advertised 10Mbs dn and 1Mbs up , but i rarely actualy get that
[05:34] <wgrant> lifeless: Canonical can! :P
[05:35] <lifeless> hopefully we'll have mirror syncing sorted for M
[05:35] <ajmitch> lifeless: are you going to be staying where you are for awhile?
[05:35] <lifeless> ajmitch: 4 months
[05:35] <imbrandon> they could use a cdn or something , but that would be $$
[05:35] <ajmitch> probably not worth switching to another ISP then
[05:35] <lifeless> ajmitch: will sort stuff out in detail for next place
[05:35] <lifeless> ajmitch: yeah, totally not worth it. Unless I get too pissed off :P
[05:35] <ajmitch> heh
[05:36] <ajmitch> you'll be staying in christchurch after the 4 months is up?
[05:36] <imbrandon> speaking of ajmitch you ping / round trip to the blizzard servers must suck in NZ
[05:36] <ajmitch> imbrandon: umm, yes
[05:36] <imbrandon> wow, never thought of that, sucks
[05:37] <lifeless> ajmitch: probably, approximately.
[05:37] <imbrandon> iirc there is only US and EU servers too
[05:40] <ajmitch> it's a shame I didn't get around to cleaning up some of the zope/plone packages from lucid, I see they're even gone from debian now
[05:48] <ScottK> I got some of them, but didn't get through them all.
[05:53] <jayvee> http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=wmi-client
[05:53] <ajmitch> yeah I saw that zope2.10 was gone, but zope-plone3 remains. No big deal
[05:53] <jayvee> wmi-client is in Hardy and Intrepid, and not in any later versions. Why is that?
[05:53] <jayvee> I use the ‘winexe’ app out of that package all the time, and it’s really annoying not having it in the latest Ubuntu.
[05:55] <ajmitch> bug 359637
[05:56] <ScottK> ajmitch: Is it there source and binary or just source?
[05:56] <ajmitch> ScottK: looks to be source+binary of zope-plone3, BUT it's listed on nz2.archive.ubuntu.com, which may be out of date
[05:56] <jayvee> That’s funny. I’m running python 2.6 and it installs fine.
[05:56] <jayvee> I can’t remember whether I needed to patch it or not.
[05:57] <ScottK> ajmitch: Because I thought i got that removed.
[05:57] <ajmitch> ScottK: you probably did, and the info I've got is most likely outdated :)
[05:57] <jayvee> There is currently no replacement packaged.
[05:58] <imbrandon> jayvee: if you can prove its still maintained upstream and builds installs and works as intened then it can get added, but it dosent follow those creteria per debian and ubuntu checks
[06:02] <jayvee> right, okayu
[06:13] <imbrandon> man i sooooo want this, but not for $40k USD http://www.novelquest.com/emperor_200.html
[06:45] <dholbach> good morning
[06:45] <imbrandon> moins dholbach
[06:45] <dholbach> hey imbrandon
[06:45] <ajmitch> morning dholbach  :)
[06:45] <piju> any ham radio operator here ?
[06:49] <imbrandon> piju: i would try #ubuntu-hams , ther is a whole community of them
[06:49] <imbrandon> piju: https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-hams
[06:50] <piju> imbrandon; yes. you can see im listed
[06:50] <dholbach> Packaging Training: Fixing small bugs in Ubuntu: in 10 minutes in #ubuntu-classroom - http://is.gd/bLixO
[06:51] <piju> imbrandon; im calling any ham radio to join #ubuntu-hams
[07:07] <ajmitch> is the debian BTS being problematic for anyone else?
[07:12] <nigelbabu>  /ws 27
[07:26] <Ciemon> nigelbabu: :)
[07:26] <nigelbabu> Ciemon: irssi and I are learning to get along well
[07:27] <Ciemon> I was smiling at your tweet
[07:27] <Ciemon> you've started using irssi? I have a google wave with some useful scripts n things if you want to get colours and split windows and things going
[07:28] <Ciemon> oh, and you get a mention in the podcast this week, along with dholbach
[07:28] <dholbach> oh wow, which one is that?
[07:28] <ajmitch> dholbach: you're famous! :)
[07:29] <nigelbabu> Ciemon: what? where? when?
[07:29] <Ciemon> http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/
[07:30] <Ciemon> it's a long one this time, but you guys get a mention in the Debian Ubuntu relationship seg
[07:30] <nigelbabu> Ciemon: my tweet, if you're in #ubuntu-release-party you'll understand about it ;)
[07:31] <nigelbabu> Ciemon: ahah, I was about to come to folks to give a little bit of ad to patch day ;)
[07:31] <dholbach> nice
[07:32] <Ciemon> nigelbabu: I did mention that as part of my intro to the seg.. but not with enough clarity. It's something we should do better
[07:33] <nigelbabu> Ciemon: maybe next time you can talk about the outcome of patch day and how awesome it was! :D
[07:35] <Ciemon> Yeah, that's a good idea, we're always trying new things, "devs-bit" could be a new part where we talk about such things. Feel free to /msg me whenever you want something mentioning
[07:36] <nigelbabu> sure :)
[07:40] <imbrandon> Ciemon: yea dev-bits would be good ;)
[07:40] <imbrandon> devs-bit*
[08:25] <kklimonda> good morning
[08:27] <simon-o> hi
[09:06] <imbrandon> off to sleep, gnight all
[09:35]  * Rhonda sighs at all the impatient people denting and tweeting about lucid not there yet. :/
[09:36] <joaopinto> release madness :)
[09:36] <ajmitch> Rhonda: same thing every release :)
[09:36] <ajmitch> Rhonda: thanks for the tip about the other sdl patch on the BTS
[09:36] <Rhonda> You're more than welcome. :)
[09:37] <Rhonda> After all if it hinders fixing it for wesnoth, I'm with my users. ;)
[09:37] <ajmitch> heh
[09:39] <joaopinto> uff, I need to get some time to fix the virtualbox addons package
[09:39] <joaopinto> it will break vm upgrades for some people
[09:40] <ajmitch> joaopinto: how badly?
[09:40] <joaopinto> ajmitch, if you use the shared folders facility it will give an error on boot and will fail to mount the shared folder
[09:40]  * ajmitch has lucid in a VM & didn't see too many issues, except when it didn't play nice with one of the kernels
[09:40] <ajmitch> ah, I only started using the shared folders recently
[09:40] <joaopinto> because the vmwaresf kernel module is loaded after mountall
[09:40] <joaopinto> ops
[09:41]  * ajmitch is just upgrading his desktop to lucid now
[09:41] <joaopinto> vboxsf
[09:41] <ajmitch> I really do need a faster desktop box
[13:05] <MunkyJunky> Hey all - is there a way to package an .sh file into a .deb?
[13:05] <Rhonda> Just write either a Makefile or the install target in debian/rules by hand.
[13:06] <Rhonda> And drop the .sh extension from the installed script, it's discouraged for files in /usr/bin and the likes.
[13:07] <persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/School/PackagingWithoutCompiling is a transcript of a MOTU School session with a somewhat silly example case.
[13:07] <nigelbabu> anyone got a sever with fast access to lp api that I could use for sometime?
[13:07] <Rhonda> ajmitch: Just to get things straight: I can leave the sdl debdiff generation to you? Would be truly appreciated. :)
[13:07] <ajmitch> Rhonda: sure, I've got the day off tomorrow
[13:08] <MunkyJunky> Cheers :)
[13:08]  * Rhonda hugs ajmitch 
[13:08] <Rhonda> MunkyJunky: The t-prot package is actually just a script (with some configuration files and manpage) and the debian/rules shouldn't be too complicated. :)
[13:09] <MunkyJunky> Rhonda: Cheers. Little confusing though, never done packaging before!
[13:09] <Rhonda> One time is the first time for everyone. :)
[14:13] <carstenh> is there a ubuntu live cd that includes packages from multiverse (I'm interestend in brother-*)? alternatively, is there a list of packages installed on the ubuntu live-cds?
[14:16] <geser> carstenh: check the manifest for the ISO of your choice on cdimages.ubuntu.com
[14:16] <carstenh> sounds good, thanks :)
[15:59] <micahg> \sh: ping
[15:59] <slytherin> How frequently is sponsor queue page updated?
[15:59] <slytherin> dholbach: ^^
[15:59] <dholbach> slytherin: it shows the "last updated" at the bottom
[15:59] <\sh> micahg, pong
[15:59] <dholbach> and I think it's all every 10 minutes
[16:00] <dholbach> slytherin: but I could imagine that launchpad for obvious reasons is a bit slow right now
[16:00] <micahg> \sh: I was wondering, since it'll be about a week before we can upload to maverick, if you want to package the latest ZF update and push to people.ubuntu.com, I can push to the PPA the backports
[16:00] <slytherin> dholbach: The last I checked it few days ago, it was showing a bug which has been fixed for over two weeks. What could be reason?
[16:01] <\sh> micahg, no..let's wait until maverick is open...
[16:01] <\sh> it's not that critical ;)
[16:01] <micahg> \sh: k, I just know how anxious some people are for their zf crack
[16:01] <dholbach> slytherin: lazr.restfulclient.errors.HTTPError: HTTP Error 503: Service Unavailable
[16:02] <slytherin> hmm
[16:02] <dholbach> slytherin: I'll find out what's happening, although it's a bit hard right now
[16:02] <dholbach> with the is-it-out-yet masses out there :)
[16:02] <slytherin> yes, right now the page does not load at all.
[16:02] <\sh> micahg, I just need to add more crack to it ;) there is still an open issue on lp for it
[16:02] <micahg> \sh: k, no pressure, I can wait :)
[16:03]  * slytherin is tempted to ask the 'question'. :-)
[16:03] <dholbach> slytherin: I'll dive into it as soon as the dust settles somewhat
[16:03] <\sh> micahg, let us just relax...:) well you should...I have too much work @office ;)
[16:03] <dholbach> slytherin: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-announce/2010-April/thread.html
[16:03] <dholbach> slytherin: if this page doesn't say "it's out", it's not out :)
[16:03] <slytherin> ha ha
[17:08] <stevecrozz> I incorrectly created a native package when I meant to create a non-native package... where can I learn how to change that?
[17:12] <geser> this happens when your .orig.tar.{gz,bz2} is wrongly named
[17:14] <hyperair> or when you don't have an orig.tar.{gz,bz2}
[17:16] <dholbach> project_version.orig.tar{gz,bz2}
[17:16] <Rhonda> stevecrozz: Just put the .orig.tar.{gz,bz2} there and build again. .bz2 though is only supported in source version 3.0
[17:17] <stevecrozz> thanks everyone, I'm going to try that
[17:26] <stevecrozz> Rhonda: that appears to do something, but it apparently runs dpkg-source after the build and then fails because the binaries it already build aren't in the orig.tar.gz
[17:28] <Rhonda> What did you call?
[17:28] <stevecrozz> debuild
[17:29] <stevecrozz> it looks like maybe that happened because debian/rules was issuing the build in clean:
[17:29] <stevecrozz> which seems wrong
[17:30] <Rhonda> Sounds like. :)
[17:31] <stevecrozz> Rhonda: do you have a sec to help me with some lintian warnings?
[17:31] <stevecrozz> W: uwsgi source: diff-contains-substvars debian/substvars
[17:37] <Rhonda> stevecrozz: That should get cleaned by the debian/rules clean target.
[17:37] <Rhonda> stevecrozz: See output of "lintian -i" which should give extended description.
[17:44] <stevecrozz> crap, I forgot today is lucid release day, i wonder how long its going to take for launchpad to build out these PPA packages
[17:46] <cyphermox> stevecrozz, presumably, a long time
[17:48] <stevecrozz> yeah, it claims 23 hours at this point
[17:48] <cyphermox> yeah, ~23 hours for i386, 5 days for amd64 ;)
[17:55] <geser> is amd64 done with the archive test rebuild? if there are still jobs from it, they are low-scored, so normal PPA uploads come first
[18:31] <highvoltage> hey motus thanks for all the hard work during this release!
[18:48] <imbrandon> great job all on a great release!! thanks ScottK ajmitch StevenK dholbach persia geser and the MANY MANY MANY others that make MOTU flow
[18:50]  * slytherin is sad that MOTU team will fade away soon.
[18:51] <persia> slytherin: Why would it fade away?
[18:52] <slytherin> persia: With the concept of components being removed I thought team will go away.
[18:52] <persia> Not at all, it's just transforming.
[18:53] <persia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Specs/LucidMOTU has the new componentless description.
[18:53] <persia> Essnetially, instead of being responsible for "universe", MOTU will be responsible for taking care of the many packages that have no dedicated team.
[18:54] <imbrandon> slytherin: yea its just a semantics change, very little will actualy change, basicly imho its like MOTU is becomming collab-maint and everything is in "main"
[18:54] <slytherin> that's nice
[18:54] <imbrandon> thus packages without a direct maintainer or team will be unter MOTU
[18:54] <imbrandon> under*
[18:55] <persia> Right.  It's just a semantic adjustment because components are going away.  Team does the same stuff.
[18:57] <kklimonda> persia: btw, now that I remember and you are nearby :) - should ppu rights make me a part of ~ubuntu-dev ?
[18:58] <persia> kklimonda: Yes, it should.
[19:02] <persia> kklimonda: I suspect it has something to do with load, but I can't stay logged into launchpad right now.
[19:02] <persia> If you're not a member by this weekend, bug me about it, and I'll sort you.
[19:03] <kklimonda> right, launchpad has slowed down after release was whas been announced ;)
[19:04] <kklimonda> ok, it's time for me to get some sleep - the last sentence didn't make much sense..
[19:05] <persia> kklimonda: Before you go: do you happen to know a good doc I could use to make transmission-daemon mirror the Ubuntu torrents I have?
[19:05] <stevecrozz> my amd64 ppa package is scheduled ahead of its i386 counterpart
[19:06] <persia> stevecrozz: You might want to ask in #launchpad
[19:06] <micahg> stevecrozz: there's nothing wrong with that
[19:07] <stevecrozz> yeah, its not really a question, just an observation
[19:10] <kklimonda> persia: do you mean a general documentation for daemon or something specific ?
[19:10] <slytherin> stevecrozz: The scheduling depends on the load the PPA build daemons have.
[19:10] <persia> Just a quick-start guide.  I have ~20 torrents that I'd like to seed, and don't torrent much.
[19:12] <hyperair> afaik just start the torrent, point it at the directory with your ubuntu torrents, let it scan, find that it's 100%, and then start seeding?
[19:14] <persia> hyperair: Do you know how to do that with transmission-daemon?  I've no GUI, and no desire to have ~20 separate screen instances for transmissioncli
[19:14] <hyperair> persia: no idea. i use deluge.
[19:14] <hyperair> persia: just open one CLI client, and let deluged do its job after adding all the torrents..
[19:15] <hyperair> but that's deluge.
[19:15] <persia> hyperair: duluge has a CLI client?
[19:15] <hyperair> persia: sure it does. deluge -u console
[19:15] <sebner> transmission ftw!
[19:15] <hyperair> deluge ftw!
[19:16] <persia> But that's in the deluge package, and I'm not installing that stack of dependencies on my server!
[19:16] <hyperair> okay sebner you tell persia what to do =p
[19:16]  * sebner only uses GUI
[19:16]  * sebner is a GUI fanboy
[19:16]  * sebner is a GUI fanboy
[19:16]  * sebner is a GUI fanboy
[19:16] <hyperair> persia: er what?
[19:16] <hyperair> deluge-console: /usr/bin/deluge-console
[19:16] <hyperair> deluge: /usr/bin/deluge
[19:17] <hyperair> so it's just deluge-console and deluged
[19:17] <hyperair> it seems deluge -u console is an artifact of the past, and i'm outdated.
[19:17]  * persia isn't that happy about installing boost and twisted, but tries it.
[19:17] <kklimonda> ugh, lost connection.. sorry about that
[19:18] <hyperair> heheh
[19:18] <slytherin> persia: Let me try on my machine and I will tell you.
[19:18] <kklimonda> persia: you can just run transmission-daemon -t -u user -v password -w /path/to/downloaded/files
[19:19] <hyperair> persia: http://github.com/fagga/transmission-remote-cli  <-- this screenshot says you can have multiple torrents open in one transmissioncli instance?
[19:19] <kklimonda> persia: and then add torrents either by using a web gui or transmission-remote
[19:20] <persia> kklimonda: That won't interfere with the transmission-daemon started by the system?
[19:20] <kklimonda> persia: http://trac.transmissionbt.com/wiki/HeadlessUsage you can read more here.
[19:20] <persia> The web gui and transmission-remte both failed for me.  Never mind.  Sleep well :)
[19:20] <persia> Thanks.  That looks helpful.
[19:21] <kklimonda> persia: the system deamon is a scary thing and has two ugly bugs in lucid that have to be fixed with updates :/
[19:21] <persia> Ah.  That explains why it didn't work for me :)
[19:23] <kklimonda> persia: you can use it but (1) you have to edit /var/lib/transmission-daemon/info/settings.json and not /etc/transmission-daemon/settings.json and (2) change rpc-enabled to true in settings.json - then you could dump iso files in /var/lib/transmission-daemon/downloads/, change their owner to debian-transmission and use transmission-remote or webgui.. pretty easy, right? ;)
[19:23] <imbrandon> persia: for the moment if you want you can run the cli "btlaunchmanycurses ./" in the dir with all your *.torrents and manage it via screen , its not a daemon but good for short term seeds ( like ubuntu )
[19:23] <imbrandon> persia: thats part of bittornado
[19:25] <persia> kklimonda: I'll try that.  Thanks.
[19:26] <persia> imbrandon: I want a daemon so I can just forget about it.  I have absolutely no desire to manage the torrents.
[19:30] <persia> Right.  Even following the steps it didn't work for me :(
[19:30]  * persia tries the next one on the list.
[19:32] <imbrandon> persia: well by manage i mean more of kill screen when you want to stop the torrents, there is no "management" in that case, you dump them all in one dir and run the client, it does everythiung with no further input required
[19:33] <persia> hyperair: deluge-console is *also* set up to manage stuff, and fails because it's not connected to a server.
[19:33]  * persia is liking this idea
[19:33] <hyperair> persia: hmm?
[19:33] <hyperair> manage stuff?
[19:33] <hyperair> what do you mean?
[19:34] <persia> hyperair: It fails because it's not connected to a server.  It's an interface to manage a server.
[19:34] <hyperair> eh yeah, it's a frontend.
[19:34] <persia> I think more things changed since you last tried it :)
[19:34] <hyperair> why, were you expecting something else?
[19:34] <hyperair> that's why you need deluged
[19:34] <hyperair> that's the deluge daemon.
[19:34] <hyperair> if you want something that will die when your screen session goes off, then use rtorrent.
[19:36] <ari-tczew> wiki.ubuntu.com has been failed down :/
[19:36] <persia> ari-tczew: overloaded.
[19:36] <persia> hyperair: You didn't mention that before :)
[19:37] <hyperair> persia: yeah, that's because i thought you wanted something that had a daemon that continued running even if your screen session disappears.
[19:37] <hyperair> looks like i misunderstood =\
[19:37] <persia> No you understood my requirements.  I misunderstood your directions, and tried to just run deluge-console, which failed, as it didn't have deluged installed.
[19:38] <hyperair> oh heh
[19:38] <hyperair> i see.
[19:38] <hyperair> whoops
[19:38]  * hyperair keeps fingers crossed and restarts X
[19:39] <hyperair> oh yeah, why does plymouth look like some purple-screened text-based UI?
[19:39] <hyperair> it looked like monotype text + fullstops as the progress bar..
[19:39] <persia> You're running the text theme.  Use a different theme if you want fancy.
[19:39] <hyperair> eh? how do you change it?
[19:39] <highvoltage> hyperair: also depends on what you display card drivers support, if it can't show graphics it falls back to text
[19:40] <hyperair> highvoltage: i've got KMS.
[19:40] <hyperair> i965.
[19:41] <highvoltage> hyperair: perhaps the text theme just became your default for some reason, you can check in /lib/plymouth/themes
[19:41] <highvoltage> there's a symlink (which is an update-alternative alternative) which selects your theme
[19:41] <hyperair> ah
[19:42] <hyperair> yes, it's the text theme.
[19:42] <hyperair> text.plymouth, right?
[19:42] <hyperair> the symlink, thati s
[19:42] <hyperair> hmm i only have the text theme
[19:42] <highvoltage> there should be two
[19:42] <highvoltage> text.plymouth which selects your text theme
[19:43] <highvoltage> and default.plymouth which selects your graphical theme
[19:44] <hyperair> weird, for some reason, not all of the new Recommends: from ubuntu-desktop got installed.
[19:46] <hyperair> make that none of the new Recommends:
[20:11] <stevecrozz> is dh_installman the preferred way to install man pages?
[20:12] <Rhonda> stevecrozz: Depends. That usually is only required for additional manpages that aren't installed by the upstream makefiles already.
[20:13] <persia> Not really: the preferred way is for the upstream build system to install them in the right places.  But if must do it in packaging, yes, use dh_installman.  Note that if you use /usr/share/doc/debhelper/examples/rules.tiny or similar, this is called automatically, if you have debian/${PACKAGE}.manpages
[20:14] <zookos> Whoo! Ubuntu Lucid is gold! Congratulations, folks!
[22:05] <YokoZar> Is it too late to hit the rebuild button on launchpad?
[22:49] <Rhonda> I would like to set bug #109434 for wesnoth to won't fix but can't. Anyone around who can do that?
[22:55] <Laney> doing
[22:56] <Laney> done
[23:03] <DaveMorris> ok, I've been busy for the last 8-9 months, and a user contacted me today about the packages I produced not been in Lucid.  Turns out they where deleted - https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/495216 - anyway to get them back in for the next release?
[23:07] <micahg> DaveMorris: are you looking to get it into just Ubuntu or through Debian as well?
[23:08] <DaveMorris> well it was in Ubuntu, so I assume it would be easy enough to get it back in
[23:08] <DaveMorris> since although it didn't have any reverse dependences within the archives, since it was for developers it will break lots of users code.
[23:09] <DaveMorris> the reason it had no updates, is because the new version hasn't been released yet
[23:10]  * DaveMorris is kinda annoyed they got removed, but I guess I should of paid more attention to the mailing list. :/
[23:10] <micahg> I don't know if I'll be able to help (not a MOTU), but which package
[23:11] <DaveMorris> opensg (sorry I forgot to mention that)
[23:11] <DaveMorris> was the source package
[23:11] <persia> Putting it back is trivial, really, although we can't get it into lucid.  The trick is to do some upload at least once a year or so.
[23:12] <DaveMorris> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/opensg
[23:12]  * micahg thinks it might have been an oversight since it was never in Debian to begin with
[23:12] <DaveMorris> I'll produce a PPA for lucid I guess
[23:13] <DaveMorris> persia: so stuff which isn't updated is very likely to get removed then?
[23:13] <persia> I believe the set of removed packages was those that had never been in Debian and had not been updated since 8.04.
[23:13] <micahg> DaveMorris: there's the option of backports also
[23:13] <DaveMorris> oh, I forgot about those
[23:14] <DaveMorris> so whats the procedure to get them added back in for lucid+1 (whats it called anywya)
[23:14] <persia> DaveMorris: Stuff that's Ubuntu-local and claimed to be maintained by the Ubuntu Developers needs to either have activity, or have some developers who say they care for it if there is no activity.  If you expect the package to be mostly dormant, but want to declare that you're maintaining it, the Debian maintenance model may be a better fit.
[23:16] <DaveMorris> for the Debian maintenance model, does that mean I have to get it into Debian?
[23:16] <persia> Yes, but you get to put your name on it, and nobody can remove it without checking with you (unless you're incredibly unresponsive to email)
[23:17] <persia> But if it was in good enough shape to be approved for Ubuntu, there's a strong chance it's in good enough shape to be approved for Debian.  You may want to update it to current packaging standards though, as some things have changed in the past couple years.
[23:18] <DaveMorris> my name was already in the control file, XSBC-Original-Maintainer: David Morris <david.morris@greenacre.no-ip.com>
[23:19] <persia> Yes, but Original-Maintainer isn't a declaration of maintenance, nor does Ubuntu support the concept of individual package maintainers.
[23:20] <DaveMorris> ok, once I've sorted out a PPA for this user, I'll look at getting it into Debian. Thanks for your help guys
[23:20] <persia> Unfortunately, I'm not sure this is well communicated, and it sometimes catches folks like you.
[23:20] <DaveMorris> yeah, I thought I would of got a mail asking about it tbh
[23:21] <persia> If you run into issues getting it into Debian, or have questions about policy changes, etc. feel free to ask here.  And please let us know once it gets into Debian and we'll be sure to make sure we sync it.
[23:21] <DaveMorris> I don't suppose there is a list of policy changes over the last 2 years?
[23:21] <persia> Sorry about that: we tend to assume everyone reads the mailing lists, as it's something we require of ourselves.
[23:22] <persia> It's the changelog of the debian-policy package.
[23:23] <DaveMorris> I tend to read the subjects (for this one it was "list of removal candidates"), but if I get busy I don't have time.  I tend not to read the body of every mail I get (not enought time)
[23:23] <persia> I understand entirely :)  For myself, I tend to try to read as little email as possible.
[23:24] <persia> There should also have been a bug filed against the package to request the removal, which ought to have caught bug subscribers.  If there wasn't, that's a flaw in our process we ought fix.
[23:30] <DaveMorris> I can't see a bug against it
[23:30]  * persia hunts
[23:31] <micahg> persia: there was bulk bug 495216
[23:31] <persia> Yeah, seems like a process failure.  nobody added the tasks to https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/495216
[23:33] <persia> Looking at the list again, it appears that we're just as guilty as Sony for dropping support for PS3.
[23:33] <DaveMorris> hehe
[23:36] <DaveMorris> so do you normally file a removal request bug on each package indvidually?
[23:41] <persia> Usually, excepting when we remove packages we get fom Debian in response to removals from Debian (because in that case, there's already a bug in Debian)
[23:42] <persia> This is the first time we've experimented with the mass-unmaintained-package removal though.  I expect we'll go through a similar exercise for the next LTS, although I hope we'll end up with tasks for all the packages for that bug.