[00:11] <godbyk> Thanks, popey.  I'm looking forward to the feedback we'll be receiving over the next few weeks.
[00:11] <godbyk> As people get a chance to start reading through it more instead of just a cursory flip-through the pages.
[00:13] <popey> :)
[01:18] <semioticrobotic> anyone following the conversation I've been having with Martin over Bug#571524?
[01:18] <semioticrobotic> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual/+bug/571524
[01:18] <manualbot> Launchpad bug 571524 in ubuntu-manual "Open Source definition is inaccurate" [High,Confirmed]
[04:06] <hemanth> godbyk, install-tl said Welcome to TeX Live! But  install-pkgs.sh says No version of TeX Live was detected!
[04:06] <godbyk> hemanth: Did you enable the option to create symlinks?
[04:07] <hemanth> godbyk, nope! just had did ./, it took a long time and said done atlast
[04:08] <hemanth> godbyk, need to set the path in my .profile?
[04:08] <godbyk> hemanth: there was a menu option to create the symlinks.  if you didn't turn that on, then tlmgr won't be in your path and the install-pkgs.sh script won't find it.
[04:09] <godbyk> you can either set the path, or run tlmgr manually to create the symlinks
[04:09] <godbyk> I can walk you through either.
[04:09] <hemanth> godbyk, i have set the path as export PATH="/usr/local/texlive/2009/bin/i386-linux":$PATH
[04:12] <godbyk> hemanth: 'kay. that should work okay.
[04:13] <hemanth> godbyk, sourced my .profile same thinge again
[04:13] <godbyk> type 'which tlmgr'
[04:13] <godbyk> if that fails to return the proper path, 'echo $PATH' and double-check it.
[04:13] <hemanth> godbyk, its in the path /usr/local/texlive/2009/bin/i386-linux/tlmgr
[04:14] <hemanth> godbyk, which returns me the proper path
[04:15] <godbyk> Hmm..
[04:15] <godbyk> And install-pkgs.sh is saying "No version of TeX Live was detected.'?
[04:15] <hemanth> godbyk, i opened a fresh terminal and explicitly set the path, now its working!
[04:16] <hemanth> godbyk, my bash version 4.0.0(1)-release.. could that be the issue?
[04:16] <godbyk> Ah, that's good then.
[04:16] <godbyk> I don't think so.
[04:16] <godbyk> You might add the PATH stuff to your .bashrc file, though.
[04:16] <godbyk> I can never remember when the .profile, .bash_profile, .bashrc, etc. are called.
[04:17] <godbyk> I know some are for interactive shells only and others are always called.
[04:17] <hemanth> godbyk, okies, .profile calls .bashrc in my case
[04:17] <godbyk> 'kay.
[04:18] <hemanth> its installing, which tlmgr > /dev/null && TEXLIVE_VERSION="2009" is the key in the script right?
[04:21] <godbyk> hemanth: yep.
[04:35] <godbyk> hemanth: how's it going?
[05:03] <hemanth> godbyk, sorry for the delay, installation went well, compilation says : ! LaTeX Error: File `xifthen.sty' not found.
[05:04] <godbyk> no problem.
[05:04] <godbyk> hmm.. did I forget to add that to the install-pkgs.sh script?
[05:04] <godbyk> try 'sudo tlmgr install xifthen'
[05:06] <hemanth> had to goto the path manually and executed the command, installing xifthen
[05:06] <godbyk> k
[05:06] <godbyk> is 'tlmgr' not in the PATH yet?
[05:06] <hemanth> tlmgr said package repository
[05:08] <hemanth> which tlmgr is giving me the path, tlmgr gives command not found! very strange, so went th path and installed xifthen, still the same issue while compilation,line 17 ubuntu-manula.cls
[05:08] <godbyk> Does 'kpsewhich xifthen' return anything?
[05:09] <hemanth> nope
[05:09] <hemanth> i'm using texmaker and compiling main.tex
[05:13] <hemanth> same
[05:15] <godbyk> Hmm.. I haven't tried compiling it with texmaker yet.
[05:15] <godbyk> Make sure it's using XeLaTeX for the engine.
[05:15] <godbyk> If kpsewhich isn't returning anything, then TeX can't find the file.
[05:16] <godbyk> Run 'sudo texhash'
[05:16] <godbyk> that'll reindex the tex files.
[05:27] <hemanth> texhash updated the files
[05:29] <hemanth> godbyk, need to go out will be back soon, everything is ready there must a same issue as you mentioned see you soon, thanks for helping
[05:30] <godbyk> 'kay.
[05:30] <godbyk> see ya
[06:26] <hemanth> godbyk, there?
[06:27] <godbyk> hemanth: yep!
[06:28] <hemanth> godbyk, what next?
[06:28] <godbyk> where'd we leave off?
[06:29] <hemanth> "Make sure it's using XeLaTeX for the engine."
[06:29] <godbyk> Ah, okay.
[06:29] <godbyk> Are you getting an error message when you compile?
[06:30] <godbyk> Or are we still having problems when you run install-pkgs.sh?
[06:30] <hemanth> pkgs where install, so was texlive 2009, unable to compile cos xifthen was missing installed it yet the same issue
[06:30] <hemanth> ! LaTeX Error: File `xifthen.sty' not found.
[06:30] <manualbot> hemanth: Error: I am only a bot, please don't think I'm intelligent :)
[06:30] <godbyk> okay.
[06:30] <godbyk> did you run 'sudo texhash'?
[06:30] <hemanth> yup
[06:30] <godbyk> does 'kpsewhich xifthen' return anything?
[06:30] <hemanth> no!
[06:30] <godbyk> Hmm..
[06:31] <godbyk> ah.. try 'kpsewhich xifthen.sty'
[06:31] <godbyk> (I thought it appended .sty automatically, but perhaps not.)
[06:31] <hemanth> /usr/local/texlive/2009/texmf-dist/tex/latex/xifthen/xifthen.sty
[06:31] <godbyk> perfect
[06:32] <godbyk> let's try compiling from the command prompt first, then.
[06:32] <godbyk> open a terminal and go to the directory containing the ubuntu-manual files.
[06:32] <godbyk> then run 'make'
[06:32] <hemanth> running
[06:32] <godbyk> 'kay.
[06:33] <godbyk> be right back.. need some water
[06:33] <hemanth> /bin/bash: xelatex: command not found, okies even me :)
[06:36] <hemanth> running after export PATH="/usr/local/texlive/2009/bin/i386-linux":$PATH, again the path is not been set, i have put them both in .bashrc and .profile
[06:36] <hemanth> godbyk, Success!  Wrote 166 pages :)
[06:37] <godbyk> okay, I'm back now.
[06:37] <godbyk> great!
[06:37] <godbyk> so we know that it compiles okay there.
[06:38] <godbyk> you may have to log out and back in to make sure the path is set appropriately in the gui app.
[06:38] <godbyk> (after setting PATH in .bashrc)
[06:40] <hemanth> godbyk, just spawning new shell or sourcing .bashrc must do it right?
[06:40] <godbyk> If you run the GUI app from the terminal, yes.
[06:41] <godbyk> If you're clicking on it through the Application menu, it will use the same environment as you had when you logged in.
[06:42] <hemanth> o ya got it, i'm getting few control options like make clean, make pdf on the nautilus menu
[06:45] <godbyk> oh, great, so you have ground control installed then.
[06:46] <hemanth> yup :), complied but main.pdf has only one blank page
[06:46] <godbyk> Hmm.. that's odd.
[06:46] <godbyk> which button did you click?
[06:47] <hemanth> make pdf
[06:47] <hemanth> make was done from the terminal
[06:47] <godbyk> let me give it a shot.
[06:47] <hemanth> :)
[06:48] <godbyk> for me, it's giving an error because it can't find the title page.
[06:48] <hemanth> o!
[06:49] <godbyk> ah, one moment.
[06:49] <godbyk> I think I'm in an old directory.
[06:49] <godbyk> (too many branches!)
[06:49] <hemanth> i just have a quick restart ok?
[06:50] <godbyk> ok, now it's compiling more.
[06:50] <godbyk> sure
[06:50] <hemanth> i will be back in a wink ;)
[06:50] <godbyk> no problem
[06:55] <godbyk> I'm just installing 10.04 on my laptop.
[06:55] <godbyk> Figured I may as well test out our installation instructions while I'm at it. :)
[06:56] <godbyk> hemanth: When I used the Make PDF button in the up-to-date lucid-e1 folder, it worked okay for me.
[07:03] <hemanth> godbyk, me also in lucid, from terminal its make && make pdf ?
[07:03] <godbyk> hemanth: 'make' by itself will generate the pdf.
[07:03] <hemanth> me lucid-2e
[07:04] <godbyk> aha.
[07:04] <godbyk> I haven't tried the 2e branch for a bit.
[07:04] <godbyk> Let me give that a go.
[07:05] <godbyk> you may want to refrain from hacking on lucid-2e too much right now as I think I'm going to wipe it out so we can start fresh.
[07:05] <godbyk> (I'll copy over only the .tex files we need for the manual. that'll keep the branch a lot smaller in size.)
[07:07] <ubuntujenkins> morning all
[07:07] <hemanth> okies, this texmaker's conf had to changed to increase the buffer size
[07:07] <godbyk> Hey, ubuntujenkins.
[07:07] <hemanth> ubuntujenkins, morning :)
[07:08] <godbyk> hemanth: the lucid-e2 branch compiled okay for me, too.
[07:09] <hemanth> godbyk, :) phew got the manual compiled
[07:09] <godbyk> cool
[07:09] <hemanth> which would be the tex editor you would suggest me, as of now me on texmaker
[07:10] <godbyk> hemanth: I typically use vim, so I'm probably not the guy to ask. :)
[07:10] <godbyk> You can use your favorite text editor, if you like.
[07:11] <godbyk> We're not using too many standard LaTeX commands, so most of the tex editors will be of limited help, I think.
[07:11] <hemanth> godbyk, me compliant with vim also, so is there any specific plugin you would suggest for it
[07:11] <godbyk> hemanth: There's a huge set of plugins called the LaTeX-Suite for vim.
[07:11] <godbyk> They're not too bad, though they get in my way sometimes.
[07:12] <hemanth> godbyk, ok checking it out, it would fun with those plugins giving tab compilations and drop downs in vim :)
[07:12] <godbyk> Otherwise, we're really just using a limited set of commands right now.  I hope they're not too difficult for people to keep in their heads. :)
[07:12] <ubuntujenkins> I got a reply from the mailing list. I made a few mistakes. Thought i had all bases covered. :/ any way any idea what a dak is ? "if you use the
[07:12] <ubuntujenkins> same upstream sources, otherwise the Ubuntu equivalent of dak will cry out."
[07:12] <godbyk> Yeah, there's not so much of that, I'm afraid.
[07:13] <godbyk> there is a vim-latex-suite package, I think.. (if you're using the ubuntu-packaged vim)
[07:13] <hemanth> godbyk, doing sudo apt-get install vim-latexsuite
[07:26]  * IlyaHaykinson waves
[07:26] <ubuntujenkins> hello IlyaHaykinson
[07:27]  * godbyk waves back at IlyaHaykinson
[07:27] <godbyk> Hey, vish!
[07:27] <IlyaHaykinson> my netbook ran out of power during the lucid upgrade
[07:27] <godbyk> oops
[07:27] <IlyaHaykinson> magically, when i plugged it in and booted, it was ok.
[07:27] <IlyaHaykinson> i guess i was half-way through the last (cleanup) stage
[07:27] <godbyk> I'm installing Lucid on my laptop.  Following the instructions in our manual.
[07:27] <ubuntujenkins> lol
[07:27] <IlyaHaykinson> so it was just a matter of "apt-get autoremove"
[07:28] <IlyaHaykinson> but yeah. this is what i get for doing an upgrade at work, and not bringing the cord
[07:28] <IlyaHaykinson> brb
[07:30]  * ubuntujenkins is disliking texlive packages the more i look
[07:31] <vish> godbyk: hi..
[07:32] <vish> godbyk: ga
[07:33] <godbyk> vish: having problems?
[07:33] <godbyk> Seems like the installation instructions are pretty decent.
[07:33] <vish> hehe , entered "enter" too soon
[07:33] <godbyk> They added LTS to the install button, though.
[07:33] <godbyk> heh
[07:33] <vish>  been using the lts since ~5months ;p
[07:34] <vish> godbyk: gah! ayatana mailing list has too many mails , it have ~200 unread mails :s
[07:34] <godbyk> vish: I know!  I end up just skimming most of them and never join the discussion.
[07:34] <godbyk> typically the discussion ends up being a free-for-all, anyway.
[07:35] <godbyk> everyone's offering their own opinion on matters, but none of it's backed up by and real research.
[07:35] <vish> exactly!
[07:35] <vish> even the design team is just pulling a rabbit!
[07:35] <godbyk> yeah, I'm a bit disappointed about all that.
[07:35] <godbyk> hopefully we'll get something better going soon.
[07:53] <ubuntujenkins> what did the desgin team have a dig on?
[08:09] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: various things, I s'pose. This is one of the more recent threads on the mailing list: https://lists.launchpad.net/ayatana/msg01569.html
[08:20] <ubuntujenkins> thanks godbyk
[08:23] <vish> hrm , need to add filter for humphrey's mails > trash , some of the mails are "+1" "nice post" or similar ;p
[08:23] <vish> are just*
[08:24] <vish> heh! no humphrey.. no fun teasing  :(
[08:26] <ubuntujenkins> Can't locate tpm2debcommon.pm in @INC (@INC contains: ./all/debian /etc/perl /usr/local/lib/perl/5.10.1 /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.1 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/share/perl5 /usr/lib/perl/5.10 /usr/share/perl/5.10 /usr/local/lib/site_perl .) at tpm2deb-source.pl line 58.
[08:26] <ubuntujenkins> BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at tpm2deb-source.pl line 58.
[08:27] <ubuntujenkins> am i right in thinking that it is looking for a file called tmp2debcommon.pm in a directory that is above the one I am in called "all" and then in the "debian" directory
[08:30] <ubuntujenkins> because if it is that silly file exists
[08:30] <godbyk> Well, it's saying it can't find tpm2debcommon.pm in any of the directories listed (in @INC)
[08:30] <godbyk> that dir must not be in the @INC list then.
[08:32] <ubuntujenkins> this script is not the best, I am having to save alsorst of files in places so that it can find them
[08:32] <godbyk> vish: a lot of the things that get argued about on the ayatana list (and so many other places) could be resolved by collecting actual data.
[08:33] <godbyk> vish: have you seen Mozilla's Test Pilot plugin for Firefox?
[08:33] <vish> oh whats des it do?
[08:33] <godbyk> vish: I'd like the exact same sort of thing but for the whole OS.
[08:33] <vish> does*
[08:33] <godbyk> It collects usage data.
[08:33] <godbyk> hold on and I'll get the link
[08:33] <godbyk> https://testpilot.mozillalabs.com/
[08:34] <godbyk> Some of the studies that have been done look at how tabs are used: how many tabs people have open, what they do when the open a new tab, etc.
[08:34] <vish> neat ty
[08:34] <godbyk> Another study looked at which menu items are used more frequently and whether they're accessed via mouse, keyboard, toolbar button, etc.
[08:35] <godbyk> The recent discussion about workspaces raises a lot of questions that we can answer by collecting data:
[08:35] <godbyk> how many workspaces do people have?
[08:35] <godbyk> how many workspaces do they *use*?
[08:35] <godbyk> how many windows per workspace.
[08:35] <godbyk> how do they switch between workspaces?
[08:35] <godbyk> etc. etc.
[08:35] <godbyk> those are questions that we can actually answer.
[08:36] <godbyk> run a small program that sits in the background and monitors that sort of usage.
[08:36] <godbyk> and it can report that data back to us.
[08:36] <vish> yeah.. i think charline must be having a similar list of sorts , we need to do that before disabling or improve a featuer
[08:36] <vish> feature*
[08:36] <godbyk> have the users fill out a quick server so we can see how advanced users differ from newbies.
[08:36] <godbyk> exactly.
[08:36] <godbyk> see how often a particular feature is actually used in practice.
[08:37] <godbyk> then you can tell all those people who are whining on the bug report that, 'hey, look, only this tiny percentage of people use the feature and it's causes problems A, B, and C for everyone else.'
[08:37] <godbyk> then you've got some ground to stand on.
[08:38] <vish> we are just trying to put ourselves in a hypothetical user's shoe and to expect that our own biases dont effect the choices would be too much , no one is so Gandhian ;p
[08:39] <godbyk> heh.. it's not even a matter of being Gandhian, it's just that we (as humans) suck at knowing *why* we do the things we do and why we make the decisions we make.
[08:39] <godbyk> it's been demonstrated repeatedly in psych experiments.
[08:40] <godbyk> A lot of the interminable debates that take place could be put to rest if only we had a bit of data.
[08:41] <godbyk> Then you can show demonstrably that one side is 'more right' than the other. :)
[08:41] <vish> the human "Id" is such a complex thing .. we have so many defense mechanisms to even not realize why we do them.. not an easy task for the conscious mind ;)
[08:42] <godbyk> Doing full-blown usability studies by bringing people into a lab and sitting them in front of a computer take a lot of time, can be rather expensive, and can have ecological validity issues.
[08:43] <godbyk> Recording data from actual people using the actual software in their actual home/workplace would work around those issues.
[08:43] <godbyk> Yeah, we humans are quite good at rationalizing are 'decisions'.
[08:43] <vish> i'm sometimes quite amazed by how much data mpt collects by reading comments/rants!
[08:44] <godbyk> Canonical may already do this, but they should look at those support requests they get, too.  Each time they get a support call, see if it's caused by a usability problem or if there's some way to improve the software to avoid those calls in the future.
[08:44] <IlyaHaykinson> fwiw, i think we'll end up doing a full-blown usability study by bringing people into a lab :)
[08:44] <IlyaHaykinson> for the manual
[08:44] <godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: awesome
[08:45] <IlyaHaykinson> i had a conversation with my friend, Hilary, who's had a lot of experience running focus groups
[08:45] <godbyk> There are definitely benefits to that, depending on the type of study.
[08:45] <IlyaHaykinson> hopefully she'll join the manual team and start working through some of these issues
[08:45] <godbyk> IlyaHaykinson: Excellent!
[08:46] <IlyaHaykinson> alright. and now it's time for me to go to sleep. l8r ppl.
[08:46] <godbyk> For our web-based version of the manual, I'd like to have (at each paragraph or subsection) a place where someone can say, 'this was helpful' or 'this is wrong/buggy' or 'this was not what I was looking for', etc. so we can use that feedback to improve the content and organization of the manual.
[08:46] <godbyk> see ya, IlyaHaykinson
[08:48] <vish> 'this was confusing to understand , had to read twice'
[08:49] <godbyk> exactly.
[08:49] <godbyk> 'this was a 7 out of 10 on the clarity scale'
[08:50] <godbyk> my basic thinking in how the web-based manual should work is that the site will be pretty much just text and screenshots on a solid color background.  no other graphics or anything to get in the way.
[08:51] <vish> windows/google/and a few others do that , i often end up not selecting the options.. but sometimes do ;)
[08:51] <godbyk> then when your mouse hovers over a paragraph, to the left of the paragraph a small set of links/widgets will appear (fairly transparent at first). if you move your mouse toward them, they'll become more solid.
[08:52] <godbyk> you can click on the 'thumbs up' or 'thumbs down' button, the 'leave feeback' link (which shows a text area for short feedback notes), etc.
[08:52] <godbyk> but very minimalistic and out-of-the-way.
[08:52] <vish> yeah
[08:52] <godbyk> I usually don't answer them, but if I can a simple yes/no to 'was this helpful?' or 'did this answer your question?' then I'll do that.
[08:52] <godbyk> and any feedback we get is helpful.
[08:53] <godbyk> each of the paragraphs should have an anchor, as well, so people in forums and on mailing lists can link directly to the paragraph that answers the perrson's question.
[08:55] <vish> godbyk: one issue though.. how through is the manual gonna get?
[08:55] <godbyk> vish: I haven't any idea.
[08:55] <vish> godbyk: also it doesnt seem humphrey has replied to Phil's concern , he seems to have forgotten
[08:55] <godbyk> It seems that people keep wanting to extend it to add many more advanced topics.
[08:56] <godbyk> Yeah, I was initially going to reply, but then I figured I'd let humpreybc handle it.
[08:56] <vish> godbyk: exactly , at which rate we are aiming to replace the docs
[08:57] <vish> one cause for concern is that , whenever humphrey mentions doc and manual collaboration  , there is no reply from the docs team
[08:58] <godbyk> vish: right.  I haven't had time to explore the doc team's stuff thoroughly yet, but from the little poking around I've done, I'm not at all impressed with its organization.
[08:58] <vish> godbyk: surely no one is impressed ;)
[08:58] <godbyk> I think everyone was waiting until after the release of lucid to get into it.
[08:59] <ubuntujenkins> can anyone spot where the extra / is in this http://paste.ubuntu.com/425079/ file that the error refers to "TLPDB.pm" pm2deb-source.pl: open(/media/Back-Up/tmp/texlive2009/trunk//tlpkg/texlive.tlpdb) failed: No such file or directory at all/debian/TeXLive/TLPDB.pm line 281.
[08:59] <godbyk> I know the docs team, ubuntu manual team, and the learning team are all going to be discussing collaboration.
[08:59] <vish> godbyk: yeah , but none of the real core docs team will be at the uds :s
[08:59] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: the extra slash shouldn't matter.
[08:59] <godbyk> vish: I know.
[09:00] <vish> gah! where is humphrey!
[09:00] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk: o ok I didn't know that
[09:00] <godbyk> Not sure where he's at today.  Haven't seen him in yet.
[09:00] <godbyk> ubuntujenkins: at least, I've never seen it make any difference.  there's a first time for everything, though.:)
[09:01] <godbyk> vish: When you pull up the system docs (System > Help and Support), does it seem terribly helpful?
[09:01] <vish> godbyk: nope.. it can be improved immensely
[09:02] <godbyk> some of my complaints are about yelp (the help browser), but others are about the docs themselves -- whether they're gnome docs or ubuntu docs, I dunno, but it's not that good.
[09:03] <vish> godbyk: i suggested a lot of improvements earlier ~a yr ago , and somehow i came off as being a jerk ;)
[10:17]  * ubuntujenkins man so close I just need a .changes file
[12:04] <ubuntujenkins> !universe
[12:04] <manualbot> The packages in Ubuntu are divided into several sections. More information at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories and http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/components - See https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecommendedSources for the recommended way to set up your repositories
[12:10] <fenre> Does anyone know the current number of downloads?
[12:11] <ubuntujenkins> fenre: let me check
[12:11] <ubuntujenkins> fenre: http://stats.ubuntu-manual.org/downloads/?id=8 and http://stats.ubuntu-manual.org/downloads/?id=9
[12:13] <fenre> Very nice. Thanks!
[12:14] <fenre> What is the difference between the two? Besides the numbers in the stats :P
[12:15] <ubuntujenkins> the printed one is with black headings an a extra page for the cover. This is the version on lulu
[12:16] <fenre> ok, so id=8 is the standard one, and id=9 is the print edition?
[12:16] <fenre> the two stats-pages seems to be identical you see..
[12:23] <c7p> hey guys the greek translation of the site need to be updated on ubuntu-manual.org, cause there are serious mistakes on the old pot file that is load on our website
[12:25] <nisshh> c7p: either daker or godbyk need to know that
[12:26] <c7p> ok i will send an e-mail later :)
[12:26] <c7p> g2g cu all
[12:47] <ubuntujenkins> fenre: yes id=8 is the standard one, and id=9 is the print edition?
[14:44] <Ddorda> where can I translate the ubuntu-manual site?
[14:48] <ubuntujenkins> Ddorda: in what lanaguage?
[14:48] <Ddorda> ubuntujenkins: Hebrew
[14:51] <ubuntujenkins> Ddorda: I think they have been moved to here https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-website
[14:54] <Ddorda> what's the differences between ubuntu-manual-website & ubu-man-website-translations
[14:54] <Ddorda> ?
[14:55] <ubuntujenkins> Ddorda: can you link me the two please.
[14:55] <Ddorda> https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-website/trunk/+pots/ubu-man-website-translations/he/+translate
[14:55] <Ddorda> https://translations.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-manual-website/trunk/+pots/ubuntu-manual-website/he/+translate
[14:58] <ubuntujenkins> Ddorda: no clue i am afraid we will have to ask daker or godbyk
[15:02] <godbyk-android> there's no difference.
[15:03] <Ddorda> godbyk-android: well, one of them has 6 more strings
[15:04] <godbyk-android> the -website one is the original, but we copy it to -manual because the translators are generally unaware of the -website project
[15:10] <Ddorda> godbyk-android: okay, thanks
[16:37]  * humphreybc just did the worst american accent ever
[17:02] <ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: why?
[17:02] <humphreybc> OMG! Ubuntu! podcast :P
[17:02] <ubuntujenkins> lol, whats wrong with your normal voice?
[17:03] <humphreybc> it's just for a short bit
[17:03] <humphreybc> you'l lsee
[17:03] <humphreybc> you'll see *
[17:03] <humphreybc> i can't give it away :P
[17:03] <ubuntujenkins> no i will not see, but i might hear :)
[17:04] <humphreybc> yeah yeah
[17:10] <ubuntujenkins> humphreybc: I am having some success on a ppa for latex, but there is a 3 day build wait. The anoying thing is the machines that are used to build packages for the disro are sat doing nothing.
[17:12] <humphreybc> hmm
[17:13] <ubuntujenkins> not all of them have the right processor, six days fro 64bit stuff
[17:16] <humphreybc> hm
[17:16] <ubuntujenkins> I just hope none of the builds fail. On another topic kevin and i had a good convo about the manual package
[17:16] <humphreybc> I'll see if we can improve that for the future builds
[17:16] <humphreybc> oh yea?
[17:18] <ubuntujenkins> we think we know how we want it to work we duiscussed it on skype. The package that goes in universe will not have a physical package. It will be a small gui and the use of wget. getting the current langauge manaul if it exists.
[17:18] <ubuntujenkins> other wise suggest they help translate and ask them to choose from the avalible list
[17:18] <humphreybc> what's your skype, Luke?
[17:18] <humphreybc> for the future
[17:19] <humphreybc> I'll have a chat with you next week about the UI design, we can bring in Kevin too on a conference call
[17:19] <ubuntujenkins> yep sounds good to me
[17:19] <humphreybc> then i'll get onto mockups and stuff on the plane
[17:20] <humphreybc> also mockups for the next quickshot
[17:20] <humphreybc> I also need mockups for our html help site
[17:21] <humphreybc> hopefully i'll be able to pick up an aussie power adapter in sydney
[17:22] <ubuntujenkins> yea I haven't figured out how to make quickshot work. yet lots of exams and tackling this ppa to hopefully avoid i can't get it to work questions.
[17:22] <humphreybc> oh wait!
[17:22] <humphreybc> Aussie ones are the same as NZ
[17:22] <humphreybc> thank the lord!
[17:22] <ubuntujenkins> lol
[17:22] <humphreybc> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AC_power_plugs_and_sockets
[17:23]  * humphreybc wonders what belgium uses
[17:23] <ubuntujenkins> I don't know
[17:24] <humphreybc> ohhh
[17:24] <humphreybc> one of them things
[17:24] <humphreybc> i see
[17:24] <humphreybc> UK plugs are retarded
[17:24] <ubuntujenkins> no they are not :P
[17:24] <humphreybc> they're hooooooooooooge!
[17:25] <ubuntujenkins> why what are new zeland ones like?
[17:25] <humphreybc> not that huge!
[17:25] <humphreybc> the danish plug is the best
[17:26] <humphreybc> it's a happy face
[17:26] <humphreybc> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:K_plug.jpg
[17:26] <ubuntujenkins> haha lol
[17:29] <thorwil> humphreybc: talked with Iain and Kenneth today and found out that the reddish orange one gets to see using one of the for-web SVGs is the right color. it's the guidelines pdf that is off
[17:29] <humphreybc> i see
[17:29] <humphreybc> well that's okay then
[17:29] <humphreybc> did you get the email I sent to daker and CC'd you in?
[17:29] <thorwil> yes
[17:29] <humphreybc> cool
[17:35] <thorwil> i'm really displeased with that tiny CoC in the circle
[17:39] <thorwil> the logo has to be huge to have enough pixels to get that thing sharp
[17:46] <humphreybc> yeah
[17:48] <humphreybc> thorwil: you should be coming to UDS now that there's a dedicated design track :(
[17:49] <thorwil> *shrug*
[17:50] <humphreybc> what do you use to open .eps files? Inkscape?
[17:50] <thorwil> i don't open eps file :/
[17:50] <humphreybc> ?
[17:51] <thorwil> inkscape should be able to open eps, with the help of Ghostscript and ps2pdf
[17:52] <humphreybc> how did you export that logo?
[17:52] <humphreybc> I opened it in gimp and saved it to a png but it didn't have an alpha layer
[17:52] <thorwil> opened an SVG in inkscape
[17:52] <humphreybc> oh, where are the SVGs?
[17:53] <humphreybc> ah
[17:53] <humphreybc> under teh SVG folder
[17:53] <humphreybc> d'oh
[18:51] <ubuntujenkins> godbyk ping
[19:46] <ubuntujenkins> We have 32164 downloads so far! \o/
[19:51] <c7p> nice :D
[19:52] <c7p> we will make this number and the reputation of the project larger, when the translated version will be released too ;)
[19:52] <ubuntujenkins> definatley so c7p
[19:57] <c7p> do anybody know when the translated version will be released ?
[19:57] <ubuntujenkins> when the language is complete, and kevin has sorted the layout of it
[20:00] <c7p> cu later
[21:18]  * ubuntujenkins has had a very successful day he has packaged all the latex packages that the manual now to wait 3 days to find out if i did it right.
[21:22] <ubuntujenkins> *needs
[22:42] <ubuntujenkins> night all