[01:12] <imbrandon> ugh i really should stay off twitter
[01:13] <imbrandon> internet argument about why ubuntu should just give up and let debian do everything .... :(
[01:14] <persia> There's both positive and negative bits about that argument.  Mostly depends on the maintainer.
[01:15] <persia> But I think the only sane response is to actively work to make that the case where the maintainers are happy to collaborate.
[01:15] <persia> (but this is action, not participation in the debate)
[01:15] <imbrandon> right
[01:16] <imbrandon> oh well i gotta get some code done , on what i dunno yet, just something to take me away from tweets ;)
[01:16] <persia> We should probably get DCT going again, but it really requires someone who has the time and interest to be the DCT leader, and isn't someone who does something else.
[01:16] <imbrandon> DCT ?
[01:16] <persia> Debian Collaboration Team.  It's come and gone a few times, but hasn't been active for a while.
[01:17] <imbrandon> ahh yea, i just hadent known it by that name
[01:17] <imbrandon> yea it would eat alot of time for whomever
[01:17] <persia> This is different than Utnubu.
[01:17] <persia> Utnubu is/was a Debian project to get Ubuntu patches merged, and get Ubuntu packages in.
[01:18] <imbrandon> i dont think collaboration is the main issue in this guys case though, he just seems to fail to realize that Ubuntu exists because it has a diffrent goal than Debian, not to be "a better debian"
[01:18] <persia> DCT was/is an Ubuntu project to reduce total delta and improve communication with various Maintainers.
[01:18] <persia> They are complementary, but were always different.
[01:18] <persia> Oh, for several classes of users, Ubuntu is a degraded Debian.
[01:19] <persia> It's just different, to meet specific goals.
[01:19] <imbrandon> right, and thats what i dont think he understands, its not like debian for everyone e.g. "a universal os" its for a very specific use case, even if that use case gets expanded over the years ;)
[01:20] <ajmitch> but it's an argument on the internet, how can you back down?
[01:20] <imbrandon> :)
[01:20] <persia> ajmitch: Apparently the strategy is to bring it to other forums, to make it harder to filter :)
[01:21] <persia> imbrandon: "set of use cases", but yeah.  Ubuntu isn't universal, and doesn't try to be.
[01:21] <ajmitch> is here where we're meant to jump on debian & have the 2 minutes of hate?
[01:21] <imbrandon> true
[01:23] <imbrandon> so i ran across a perl twitter client today, must i say "for the love of everything that is good, WHY!"
[01:24] <persia> imbrandon: So, you're bored, and want a coding project?
[01:24] <wgrant> Better than PHP-GTK.
[01:24] <ajmitch> wgrant: don't tempt him
[01:24] <imbrandon> persia: yup
[01:24] <imbrandon> wgrant: hahahahah i was just talking to ajmitch about that yesterday
[01:26] <persia> imbrandon: CLI NetworkManager client, for when X crashes.  Does the appropriate things with D-Bus and the DE data stores.  Make sure it works for all of GNOME/KDE/XFCE/headless.
[01:26] <jdong> persia: CNetworkManager?
[01:26] <imbrandon> persia: dosent that exist ?
[01:26] <jdong> http://vidner.net/martin/software/cnetworkmanager/
[01:26] <persia> jdong: I heard that project was stagnant.
[01:26] <imbrandon> ahhh /me will dig into it
[01:26] <jdong> oh. it workedforme
[01:27] <jdong> but Ubuntu packaging and refreshing is awesome too :)
[01:27]  * ajmitch just wants a working wireless driver :)
[01:27] <persia> jdong: I'm not fussy if it's fixing found code or creating new code :)
[01:27] <jdong> :)
[01:28] <persia> But nm-tool just doesn't even pretend to be enough.
[01:28] <imbrandon> persia / jdong : sounds like just the proj i need :) /me starts diggin
[01:29] <imbrandon> main problem i can think of right off is kde and gnome store the nm info diffrently dont they
[01:29] <imbrandon> for say staticly configured interfaces
[01:30] <imbrandon> since they dont use /etc/network/*
[01:31] <persia> imbrandon: Right, so you have to come up with some minimal-deps client code that checks to see if the store exists, then tries to pull secrets from it, etc.
[01:31] <imbrandon> right
[01:31] <persia> Because you don't just want the static IPs, but also things like passphrases for wireless or VPNs, etc.
[01:32] <imbrandon> yea, it might be tricky if it configured diffrently for like say kde and gnome on the same box
[01:32] <persia> And if the store requires authentication to access, you need to plug into the authentication mechanisms, etc.
[01:32] <persia> cNetworkManager is a start, but there's lots of integration missing :)
[01:32] <imbrandon> yup, and atleast its python ;)
[01:36] <imbrandon> ohh this looks fun, and actualy no my assumption was wrong, it somehow actualy stores the info per user via NM not via a DE datastore
[01:37] <imbrandon> not sure exactly how yet, but that makes things easier
[01:37]  * imbrandon goes to graba  mt dew and fetches the tarbal
[01:41] <imbrandon> the ubutnu-server seed include python i would assume , correct ?
[01:44] <persia> python-minimal is in the minimal task.
[01:45] <persia> Hrm.  python is also in the minimal task.  Why do we have python-minimal again?
[01:48] <imbrandon> probably an older holdover
[02:19] <JanC> persia: python-minimal is for people who want to go really minimal AFAIK  ;)
[02:20] <MTecknology> persia: for people like me that are insane to the core :D
[02:20] <MTecknology> ... if I ever learn python..
[02:20] <persia> I thought it was a subset that was supposed to be in ubuntu-minimal, with the rest in ubuntu-standard.  I suspect python got into minimal because of default-recommends, and minimal may benefit from renewed analysis (and specifically close comparison between no-install-recommends and default)
[02:21] <JanC> looks mostly useful for limited tasks on an embedded system
[02:21] <persia> MTecknology: The package is specifically that subset of python that was really a dependency of that subset of packages that was considered really minimal.  I don't imagine anyone would intentionally use it, although many would be happy to install fewer modules on a system that's intended to be minimal, and not likely to run some arbitrary set of python programs.
[02:22] <persia> JanC: I think the target was more appliance VM than embedded system, but something like that.
[02:23] <JanC> it doesn't even include support for databases, xml parsing, etc.
[02:23] <MTecknology> persia: I was making a crack at how minimal I made my system. granted I should probably add some of the stuff in ubuntu-minimal back to my system..
[02:25] <persia> JanC: Right, which I don't really need for e.g. a static webserver, or a DNS server.
[02:28] <MTecknology> Is there any reason most configs are ~/.xxx sintead of ~/.config/xxx or something like that?
[02:28] <MTecknology> imo .config is a lot cleaner
[02:28] <JanC> MTecknology: because ~/.config didn't exist in the past
[02:28] <JanC> it's an XDG invention
[02:28] <MTecknology> oh
[02:29] <MTecknology> any chance people might start moving to it in the distant future?
[02:29] <JanC> people are already moving
[02:29] <MTecknology> cool :)
[02:30] <JanC> but if upstream thinks it is "not traditional unix"...  ;)
[02:31] <MTecknology> then we slam em!
[02:31] <MTecknology> or let'm do what they please :P
[02:32] <JanC> at least ~/.blah is better than ~/blah
[02:32] <MTecknology> ya... I remember using some of those apps a while back
[02:32] <JanC> (yes there are those who do that)
[02:32] <MTecknology> I think I had to use on eof those a couple months ago - forgot the name though - I know jagex does it
[02:49] <ScottK> YokoZar: Not sure if anyone answered this, but it is too late to hit retry, but DEPWAIT fix is a legit SRU, so you do a debian/changelog only upload to lucid-proposed.
[03:36] <ScottK> jdong: https://launchpad.net/lucid-backports
[03:41] <imbrandon> ScottK: is there a bug# ?
[04:01] <ScottK> imbrandon: For?
[04:01] <imbrandon> ScottK: i forget now
[04:05] <jdong> ScottK: thanks!
[04:07]  * imbrandon goes through the list of -backports for someting to approve/defer/test
[04:11] <imbrandon> jdong: wanna approve lp 480547 , you initial assesment looks like the way to go
[04:12] <imbrandon> otherwise it would require a source change backport that could be done later
[04:12] <imbrandon> for jaunty
[04:13] <jdong> imbrandon: ok
[04:14] <jdong> imbrandon:have you checked lucid -> karmic?
[04:14] <imbrandon> only cursorly, when i did the lucid update a week or two ago
[04:14] <imbrandon> i can do more in-depth if wanted
[04:15] <imbrandon> in otherwords i know it builds and installs, but as far as working as inteneded  in karmic no idea
[04:15] <jdong> imbrandon: ok back when I looked at the backport it definitely worked
[04:17] <imbrandon> man i LOVE the Ubuntu One Music store, LOVE it , heh
[04:52] <imbrandon> ScottK: i'm guessing the etoys intrepid-proposed sru was rejected b/c support ?
[04:53] <imbrandon> lfaraone ^^
[05:07] <micahg> jdong: would a locales package that was forgotten be ok for an SRU?
[05:07] <jdong> micahg: that sounds reasonable to me
[05:07] <micahg> jdong: k, thanks
[05:45] <ScottK> imbrandon: Yes.
[06:03] <suji11> hi
[06:05] <persia> hey
[06:05] <imbrandon> heya
[06:06] <suji11> Already iok is in ubuntu repository, i followed this site https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Recipes/PackageUpdate and update the iok package, now what i do to bring this to ubuntu repository?
[06:07] <suji11> i uploaded this to in my launchpad https://launchpad.net/~suji87-msc/+archive/ppa
[06:07] <persia> suji11: Which source format did you use for the package?
[06:08] <suji11> persia: Source format means?
[06:08] <persia> If you ask, you used 1.0 :)
[06:08] <persia> Just attach the diff.gz to a bug requesting upload, and subscribe ubuntu-sponsors.
[06:09] <persia> Note that maverick isn't open yet, so nobody *can* upload it for probably a week to ten days.
[06:13] <suji11> persia: where to upload the diff.gz and should i upload the latest version of iok's diff.gz am right?
[06:13] <persia> Attach the diff.gz you want reviewed for inclusion in the repository to a bug requesting an upgrade or update of iok.
[06:14] <persia> Do not attach the original tarball: be sure that your diff.gz has all necessary information to produce the original tarball in debian/watch, debian/copyright, debian/README.source, and debian/rules.
[06:21] <suji11> persia: ok, where to i upload the diff.gz ?
[06:21] <persia> Attach the diff.gz you want reviewed for inclusion in the repository to a bug requesting an upgrade or update of iok.
[07:23] <imbrandon> using bug trackers is much more fun when music is playing /me is glad to have his music collection sync'd back to the laptop
[07:32] <warp10> wgrant: please, could you renew my membership in ~motuscience?
[07:41] <wgrant> warp10: Done.
[07:42] <warp10> wgrant: great, thanks!
[08:03] <Rhonda> 7who
[08:03] <Rhonda> Laney: Thanks - didn't see it yesterday anymore, was off then already. :)
[08:43] <dholbach> good morning
[08:44] <adahendra> morning
[08:44] <dholbach> hey adahendra
[08:44] <Rhonda> loha
[08:46] <imbrandon> moins dholbach
[08:46] <dholbach> hey Rhonda, hi imbrandon
[08:48] <adahendra> hai dholbach
[08:49] <Rhonda> grmlmonster got released yesterday, too. :)
[08:49] <Rhonda> So it was two releases for me.
[09:42] <YokoZar> ScottK: uploaded to proposed then :)
[11:21] <eagles0513875> just in here to thanks you guys for making another great release :) with lucid
[16:09] <lfaraone> imbrandon: understood.
[16:09] <lfaraone> Can I perform SRU verification for my own SRU uploads?
[16:55] <geser> lfaraone: I doubt it, or would you propose a fix which doesn't work for you?
[17:23] <Guest32482> Hello M. lucas
[17:24] <Guest32482> Is it possible to compile/use rubyripper on Ubuntu 10.04 without hang?
[17:27] <fabrice_sp> Hi. Does it makes sense to fix the FTBFS, and document the SRU, if this is a new package in Lucid? (it's for rabbit)
[17:31] <geser> yes
[17:46] <Guest32482> Is it possible to make a package of a software e.g. rubyripper, which will be independant of ruby-related libraries?
[17:47] <fabrice_sp> geser, if the yes was for me, it's for https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/rabbit
[17:49] <geser> fabrice_sp: yes, the "yes" was for you. The SRU page mentions FTBFS as a valid reason for an SRU.
[17:50] <fabrice_sp> I know, but as this package has never been in Ubuntu, I was trying to see if it's worth a SRU or not
[17:51] <fabrice_sp> but the fix is easy, so I'll upload it to -proposed :-)
[17:51] <geser> if the package works afterwards, then SRU it
[17:51] <fabrice_sp> ok. I saw another one (because of missing locales-all in Ubuntu). I'll upload it also then
[17:52] <geser> it's even less risky as you don't replace any old debs (from an previous successful build)
[17:52] <fabrice_sp> thanks!
[18:33] <lfaraone> geser: good point.
[19:00] <cody-somerville> ScottK, Does the backports team regularly backport dpkg-dev?
[19:16] <imbrandon> cody-somerville: looking i dont see any backports for it , ever
[19:17] <imbrandon> cody-somerville: and i dont rember processesing any
[19:17] <cody-somerville> k0p, thanks
[19:17] <cody-somerville> doh
[19:17] <cody-somerville> okay, thanks :)
[19:20] <jdong> cody-somerville: I think dpkg-dev qualifies as a package I'm afraid to touch ;-)
[19:20] <jdong> namely, it's in the "cjwatson can feel free to do whatever he wants to it!" category :)
[19:21] <cody-somerville> Theres a lot of stuff in it. I think some of it should probably be split out.
[19:35] <imbrandon> release party here in a few hours , woot
[20:04] <ubuntujenkins> I am trying to get a package to place a pdf in /usr/share/docs/pdf . any suggestions or hints on how i get a package to do that. Also does it matter that the "ubuntu-manual" folder doesn't exist?
[20:22] <ubuntujenkins> */usr/share/docs/ubuntu-manual
[20:23] <azop> ubuntujenkins: are you trying to install something else to /usr/share/docs/ubuntu-manual?
[20:23] <azop> s/install/copy
[20:24] <ubuntujenkins> azop: I have five files that need placing in different places in the os. Its just a bunch of latex icons and a font.
[20:25] <ubuntujenkins> I would like to do it with a package as the aim is to make it easier for others
[20:26] <azop> Well, you would need to create the ubuntu-manual directory if you plan to copy files into it during the install
[20:27] <ubuntujenkins> Thats as i guessed how would i go about it? I am quite happy to read info if you have some suggestions
[20:47] <carstenh> ubuntujenkins: don't trust random scripts someone you don't know gave you on irc :) after you checked that http://stateful.de/~carsten/tmp/100430U3x0e6FxXjg/dir2deb doesn't do any harm you could create a directory structure, place things that belong to /usr/bin in yourpackagename/usr/bin and so on and finally run DEBFULLNAME="Ubuntu Jenkins" DEBEMAIL="ubuntujenkins@example.com" dir2deb yourpackagename. this creates the ...
[20:47] <carstenh> ... yourpackagename/debian directory needed to build the package, to actually build it you chdir to it and run "dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -us -uc".  this semi-automatically created package is of course nothing you could upload without modification (because of missing package description, the lack of a useful copyright ...).
[20:48] <carstenh> ubuntujenkins: if you want an example of an official package that does just place some file somewhere take a look at the source package of debian-goodies
[20:49] <ubuntujenkins> carstenh: thanks very much just what i need to know, I shall have a play with it all and see what i can come up with.
[20:51] <carstenh> ubuntujenkins: playing is a good way of learning :) the debian/rules file dir2deb creates uses a uncommon syntax since it was never thought to be published or used for educational purposes
[20:52] <ubuntujenkins> carstenh: Does that need adjusting to be correct?
[20:53] <ubuntujenkins> *corrected
[20:56] <carstenh> ubuntujenkins: it is correct. 2 + 1 = 3 is correct as is 2 + 1 = 6/2
[20:56] <ubuntujenkins> ok i see its just a different way of doing it then :)
[20:56] <carstenh> ubuntujenkins: it's just not the best example of a rules files, the place to look for such examples is /usr/share/doc/debhelper/
[21:00] <carstenh> relevant documentation from debian is linked from www.debian.org/devel but since you ask on an ubuntu channel ubuntu documentation seems to fit better, maybe you can find something useful in the urls mentioned in the channel toopic
[21:02] <ubuntujenkins> ok thanks carstenh
[21:11] <mannyv> if I wanted t ohelp out with some sru's how would i go about finding candidate packages?
[21:12] <ubuntujenkins> What i forgot to ask was when the package installs I would like it to run updmap --enable Map ccicons.map  as the last thing it does. How would i go about adding that? Is it even possible?
[21:18] <carstenh> ubuntujenkins: dh_installtex might do this already, if not, ask google: site:debian.org debian policy postinst
[21:19] <ubuntujenkins> ok thanks carstenh