/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/05/01/#ubuntu-manual.txt

humphreybchello04:01
godbykhey04:02
nisshhhumphreybc: i have finally been added to the list of people who get their blogs syndicated to ubuntu-au planet08:10
nisshhit means ill now get to post stuff about the manual to ubuntu-au users specifically08:11
godbyknisshh: awesome. congratulations!08:11
nisshhgodbyk: cheers! iv been on the waiting list for a good 3 months now08:13
godbykwow08:13
nisshhyea, the ubuntu-au community is pretty munted at the moment08:14
nisshhalot of people want alot of different things!08:14
godbykthorwil: I ordered a copy of the manual from lulu, so we can see if there are any problems with the printed version (margins, print resolution, etc.).08:39
thorwilgodbyk: cool. if it comes out well, i would like to have some high quality photos ;)08:40
godbykSure!08:40
godbykYou'll get some high-res photos one way or another. :)08:40
ubuntujenkinsgodbyk: ping09:27
godbykubuntujenkins: pong09:28
ubuntujenkinsI have packaged ccicons how ever I noticed that they currently intsall in the home directory of the user, this is a big no no with a package. are they ment to go there or can they go some where else09:28
godbykubuntujenkins: they can be installed with the other texlive packages.09:29
ubuntujenkinswhere would that be godbyk09:30
godbykIt should go in /usr/share/texmf-texlive/...09:30
godbykI'm currently installing the existing lucid texlive packages and seeing what's missing.09:31
godbykmaybe we can package just the differences that we need.09:31
ubuntujenkinsI think we package it al;ll so no lucid users can use it. I have them in a ppa waiting to be built09:32
ubuntujenkins*non09:32
godbykhow long would it take to get the lucid texlive packages themselves updated?09:34
godbyk(instead of our own packages for everything)09:34
ubuntujenkinsI don't know the stuff in the ppa is the latest from debian09:34
ubuntujenkinsthere is a three day build que09:35
godbykso we'd have to update the debian packages and then push them downstream to ubuntu?09:35
ubuntujenkinsyes they guy who does it all is very helpful. The last set of packages are not that old couple of months thats it09:35
godbykcool.09:36
godbykso we'd just need to get debian to update their stuff and then this guy would update the ubuntu packages/09:36
godbyk?09:36
ubuntujenkinsno the guy does the debian stuff and the when ubuntu does a debian import they get dragged in09:37
godbykaha, gotcha.09:37
godbykcan we have the debian guy update his packages?09:37
godbykthen we just have to coax ubuntu into importing them09:37
godbyk(I don't know what that process is like)09:38
ubuntujenkinsI am not sure how open to updating it he will be. They are quite new.09:38
ubuntujenkinsWhen i say he has been nice he has been vary helpfull in answering my questions on the mailing list.09:39
godbykI think the tex live people are hoping to release tex live 2010 this summer.09:40
ubuntujenkinsnice, I would hope he will update the debian files then09:41
ubuntujenkinsAlso what would happen if the updmap --enable Map ccicons.map command was not run. I am not sure if the package does it or not. Would a reboot be enough?09:46
godbykA reboot wouldn't do it.09:47
ubuntujenkinsok I will make sure that it is run09:48
godbykIt adds the font mapping to the list of font mappings.09:48
ubuntujenkinsIf all these packages that are in the ppa work I will work out how to get that command running09:48
godbykwhat all packages are you creating?09:49
ubuntujenkinsthe stuff i uploaded creates lots of files but, texlive-base , bin , doc , extra and xindy are waiting to build. xindy has to come from a ppa as its not in ubuntu09:51
ubuntujenkinsits in debian09:51
ubuntujenkinsgodbyk: can you please remove 01-live-cd-welcome@pl@1272645268.png and 08-display-properties-confirm@es@1272533840.png10:18
godbykubuntujenkins: done10:18
ubuntujenkinsthanks10:19
TMKCodesAre you guys using google docs for collaborating the manual?19:28
ubuntujenkinsTMKCodes: we are using bzr and latex for the formating19:29
ubuntujenkinsbe back in 2019:30
TMKCodesAh. :P19:34
TMKCodesWell i was just thinking that google docs is quite powerful at collaborating as multiple users can write the same time to the document19:35
ubuntujenkinsTMKCodes: I see your point, we do try and do it so only one person is writing on one subject so there is no conflicts19:46
ubuntujenkins*subject/application19:48
TMKCodesyeah19:57
dakerhello :)21:40
ubuntujenkinshello daker21:41
dakerwassup21:47
ubuntujenkinsnot much really fairly quite to be honest21:48
ubuntujenkinswhat baout you?21:49
dakerwriting some python code21:49
ubuntujenkinssebsebseb: how do you keep up with #ubuntu I can't tell whos questions have been answered and whos haven't. You know your bot factoids21:50
ubuntujenkinsdaker: what for?21:50
sebsebsebubuntujenkins: I don't know all the factoids21:51
sebsebsebI like that busy channel :D21:51
sebsebsebmany hate it21:51
dakertry to code my own Bot21:51
sebsebsebubuntujenkins: Since Ubuntu 9.04,  Ubuntu is a like and dislike realtionship21:52
sebsebsebhowever i'lll still help in IRC with it21:52
ubuntujenkinsdaker: have you looked at the ubuntu bot source?21:52
sebsebsebbetter people use Ubuntu than Windows or Mac OS X21:52
sebsebsebeven though loads of other distros are really good as well21:52
ubuntujenkinssebsebseb: its good to see people helping, I can't read as quick as you21:52
ubuntujenkinshello IlyaHaykinson21:52
IlyaHaykinsonhi ubuntujenkins21:52
sebsebsebubuntujenkins: I used to be rather active in 2009 there21:53
dakerubuntujenkins, well the code is very hard for me right now21:53
sebsebseb,but then out came the bad Ubuntu 9.10 release21:53
sebsebsebso not as much, plus wanted to do other things21:53
sebsebseb,but now things are mainly about 10.04 so :D21:53
sebsebsebthings have changed a bit21:53
ubuntujenkinswhat are your thought on lucid sebsebseb21:53
sebsebsebfactoidwise as well21:53
sebsebseb:)21:53
sebsebsebthat's an interesting one21:53
sebsebsebhow I will do Lucid on the other computer, when it gets upgraded from Karmic21:53
sebsebsebmaybe later tonight21:53
sebsebsebwell yes probably later tonight21:53
ubuntujenkinsdaker: you could just change all the factoids on the ubuntu bot21:54
ubuntujenkinssebsebseb: I like it allot hope it works for you :)21:54
sebsebsebI have been testing in vm since alpha 121:54
sebsebsebin my better for me anyway and so on,  Mandriva One 2010  host :)21:54
sebsebsebso now I am quite bored of Lucid really21:54
sebsebsebas for the other computer family one, so I don't use it that much, it has Ubuntu and XP21:55
sebsebsebmy older brother started using Ubuntu on there, soon after XP messed up big time :)21:55
sebsebsebhe uses Facebook a lot21:55
ubuntujenkinssebsebseb: fair enough, I replaced xp with ubuntu when it messed up as well21:55
sebsebsebsadly when XP did mess up big time on there, my Dad wanted me to re do the whole hard disk21:55
sebsebsebthat meant bye bye 9.0421:55
sebsebsebthis was January when the hard disk gets re done,  I thought ah well  not that long really to 10.04 now, so i'll put 9.10 on,  however two months well more like three,  or whatever, is  longer than you think when waiting for something21:56
sebsebsebin this case waiting for the stable 10.04 release,  I am not going to run development version on there, even though I could21:56
ubuntujenkinsI told my faimily that ubuntu was their only choice, they didin't complain21:56
sebsebsebbrown human themes for my brothers :D21:56
sebsebsebthe one before 9.1021:57
sebsebsebso yeah brown, a bit of orange even I guess21:57
sebsebsebwell that will be their 10.04 theme as well21:57
ubuntujenkinsLucid themes are the best the black one for me21:57
sebsebsebno they aren't21:57
sebsebsebwell the black one is alright, untill Firefox is opended, then things look to black for my likeing21:57
sebsebsebalso those window borders are ok, but a bit ugly really21:57
ubuntujenkinsI use chromium21:57
sebsebsebchromium/chrome hrm21:58
sebsebsebthe fan boys get at me a bit21:58
sebsebsebthose who think it's really great21:58
sebsebsebI am rather loyal to Firefox21:58
ubuntujenkinsI just perfer it, only reason why i use it21:58
sebsebsebI don't like how,  well  they done even more bad Gnome editing21:58
sebsebsebin 10.0421:58
sebsebsebhowever for other people, things like the me menu, will be pretty good21:58
ubuntujenkinsIlyaHaykinson: as I have lot of quickshot work I don't think i will be able to contribute to writing for the next release21:59
IlyaHaykinsonubuntujenkins: no worries. plus we've got a while before we start writing much.21:59
sebsebsebI don't like how the me menu is linked to  their edited fast user account switcher,  can't just remove one, whilst keeping the other21:59
ubuntujenkinssebsebseb: i don't mind the memenu21:59
IlyaHaykinsonright now the priority is to do the research to figure out what we may want to change for maverick22:00
ubuntujenkinsIlyaHaykinson: Just thought it was best to let you know22:00
sebsebsebalso when that is enabled no shut down or log out in system menu,  which has been the case since 9.04 with edited fast user account switcher22:00
IlyaHaykinsonubuntujenkins: thanks. i do appreciate it.22:00
sebsebseb,but what's even worse when it comes to 10.04 is how, with the edited fast user account switcher and me menu.  no upstream automatic shut down feature22:00
sebsebsebanymore22:00
sebsebsebyou know the one that will shut down after a minute automatically,  after telling it to shut down, if un touched?  you know the one I mean right? I hope22:00
sebsebsebinstead these newbie, do you really want to shut down, do you really want to restart,  messages instead22:01
ubuntujenkinsI I know I thought that was a silly feature 10 seconds would have been better22:01
sebsebseb10 seconds for what?22:01
ubuntujenkins10 seconds instead of 6022:01
sebsebsebanyway can have automatic shut down, but got to remove me menu, and edited fast user account switcher from the panel first, yep both since they are linked22:02
sebsebseb10 seconds uh no22:02
sebsebseb60 is good22:02
sebsebseb60 gives people quite a lot of  time to cancel, if they did it accidently22:02
sebsebsebKDE has 30 seconds22:02
sebsebsebif I remember correctly22:02
ubuntujenkins30 is more reasonable22:02
sebsebsebwhen Ubuntu 8.10 came out22:03
sebsebsebwhich sadly went end of life yesterday22:03
sebsebsebwell when that great release came out, one of the features other than the great default background, that I liked22:03
sebsebseba lot22:03
sebsebsebwas the automatic shut down feature22:03
sebsebsebI found that quite the upgrade over  8.0422:04
sebsebsebRIP 8.10 :(22:04
sebsebseboh 8.10, oh 8.10 <322:05
ubuntujenkinsnot good then :(22:05
sebsebsebeven though the ethernet woudn't just work on the other computer sadly,  however that also needs a driver in XP22:05
sebsebseband by the time I finally  bothered to upgrade it to 8.10 from 8.04, 9.04 was out anyway.  and 9.04 is great with the optionallExt4 support (which isn't perfectly stable since the kernel and such) and verbose/text mode22:06
sebsebsebat first I thought the upgrade had gone wrong, but then I did a Live CD, and woudn't work there either22:06
sebsebsebI tried to figure out a bit about how I would get it working,  was suggested to look in /etc/hosts for something and stuff like that, but gave up soon after woulds.  since 9.04 was already out22:07
sebsebsebanyway going back to 10.04,  I also don't like how the envolope is linked to the sound applet22:07
sebsebsebthat new sound applet I guess is alright, shame that envelope is linked to it though.  oh and an envelope icon is quite pathetic really,  unless it's for an email client22:07
ubuntujenkinsI am not bothered by those changes, as long as i can do what i want thats fine by me22:08
sebsebsebI don't really care about Facebook22:08
sebsebseb:)22:08
sebsebsebsince...22:08
sebsebsebso yep I haven't even tested the me menu  as in with logged in accounts22:08
sebsebsebGwibber22:08
sebsebsebplayed around with what I could in vm, without logging in to accounts though.22:08
ubuntujenkinsI am not much of a gwibber fan the pidgin plugin for facebook is better22:09
sebsebsebyes I have used the Facebook IM  plugin before in Pidgin, and will set it up again, but not just yet22:09
sebsebsebanyway doesn't the envelope show Pidgin stuff as well?  or is it really linked to empathy22:09
ubuntujenkinsIlyaHaykinson: kevin and i were talking the other night and a question along the lines of http://paste.ubuntu.com/426080/ would be useful for both the manual program. (and quickshot)22:10
sebsebsebwhen I installed Pidgin into vm, it would show the icon  and name in the envelope22:10
ubuntujenkinssebsebseb: yes but even after removeing empathy you still see the chat  line for empathy22:10
sebsebsebnever set up an account in it though22:10
sebsebsebubuntujenkins: I have even played with that22:10
sebsebsebyou can remove the22:10
sebsebsebset up email account22:10
sebsebsebset up chat account, messages from the evenlope quite easilly22:10
sebsebsebremove the programs,  or maybe there indicator programs as well. well I was able to do it in a vm that I did22:11
sebsebsebfor this very reason,  I am thinking about removing evolution, but also Ubuntu One22:11
ubuntujenkinsI have yet to reboot since removing empthay so I will haev to see22:11
sebsebsebI don't want the Ubuntu Music Store22:11
sebsebsebnice feature, but this is not something I want to use,  or my older brother  who woudn't want to use it anyway I expect, he would rather buy CD's,  or get for free legally22:12
ubuntujenkinsjust remove the plugin it is expensive22:12
sebsebsebMP3's22:12
sebsebsebah ha you have actsauly tried it or ?22:12
ubuntujenkinsI looked at the prices and downloaded a free song22:12
sebsebsebubuntujenkins: well omgubuntu site, said that, Canoncial was going to give 50% of the profits to some charity22:12
sebsebsebto save the Lucid Lynx22:12
sebsebsebor whatever it was22:12
ubuntujenkinsI did read that22:13
sebsebsebubuntujenkins: well Banshee is what I use persoanlly :) since like 9.0422:13
sebsebseband  I even got my older brother using Banshee before.22:13
sebsebsebyes yes Mono, but anyway Banshee :)22:13
sebsebsebMono isn't really a good thing for Desktop Linux though, but some pretty good programs use it22:13
ubuntujenkinsI find banshee crashes and is delayed in getting podcasts22:14
sebsebsebubuntujenkins: heh we are so off topic, but so what22:14
sebsebseb!ot22:14
manualbot#ubuntu is the Ubuntu support channel, for all Ubuntu-related support questions. Please use #ubuntu-offtopic for other topics. Thanks!22:14
sebsebsebah22:14
sebsebsebno22:14
ubuntujenkinsits not as if we are stopping people from talking22:14
sebsebsebthe factoid I came up with before, is no longer there22:14
sebsebsebBest to keep this channel mainly on topic!22:15
sebsebsebit's not there anymore :(22:15
sebsebsebdutchie: sort that out please :)  ^22:15
ubuntujenkinsI do remember it I will ask dutchie when he is back from oggcamp22:15
sebsebseboggcamp?22:15
sebsebsebfor the music format?22:15
sebsebseband video22:15
sebsebseboh yeah there's something about how Apple will now try and patent sue, the company who made OGG, or whatever it was22:15
ubuntujenkinsno http://oggcamp.org22:16
sebsebsebI know that URL thing you know with the title22:16
sebsebsebisn't useually done in Ubuntu channels, but maybe the bot here should do it22:16
ubuntujenkinsapple always try and sure people. evil company22:16
ubuntujenkinswhat url thing?22:16
sebsebsebin fact I have never seen that done in an Ubuntu channel, maybe unoffical ones though22:16
sebsebsebubuntujenkins: there's one for bots, where it will get the title of the webpage and show people22:17
sebsebsebwhen a link is given out22:17
ubuntujenkinsnot seen it i am usually in ubuntu channels22:17
sebsebsebyes22:17
sebsebsebthat's what I was saying22:17
sebsebsebUbuntu channels don't do it22:17
sebsebseb,but maybe this one could/should22:17
ubuntujenkinsdepends thats an ask dutchie again22:18
sebsebsebin a way22:19
sebsebsebremoving default apps22:19
sebsebsebis removing the Ubuntu experience or at least some of it ?22:19
sebsebsebI mean it's still Ubuntu sure, but in a way it isn't, get what I mean?22:20
ubuntujenkinsI get what you mean but part of ubuntu is that it can be customized22:20
ubuntujenkinsthey just make suggestions of what they think is the best programs22:21
sebsebsebubuntujenkins: well that's the case for all/most distros22:21
ubuntujenkinstrue22:21
sebsebsebmy older brother well what I said so far about editing, so human theme, remove some apps22:22
sebsebsebthis time round I am going to let him have the Gnome edits though22:22
sebsebsebso yep he will no longer be shutting down from the system menu as a result22:22
sebsebsebwell I am forced to let him  have what I don't really want him to have, by giving him the me menu, which is what I do want him to have22:23
sebsebsebmy little brother is to young and that, so  yep like before, bye bye fast user account switcher their edited one, which also means the me menu since they are linked, if they hadn't been I would have removed me menu seperatly22:23
sebsebsebmy account on there will be like this as well22:23
sebsebsebthen yep shut down and log out in system menu :)  and I guess the icons will still be showing there after upgrade, if not I can enable that22:23
ubuntujenkins:)22:24
sebsebseband  I tried the plymouth themes in vm22:24
ubuntujenkinsI haven't looked into them at all22:24
sebsebsebthe default is alright, but  I like the text boot one.  that will say Ubuntu 10.04  and have the dots22:24
ubuntujenkinsany good ones?22:24
sebsebsebso that's the one I will go for,  which is really the one that is shown, if people can't  show the others properly since graphics card, or whatever repo was saying22:25
sebsebseband yes  they are all good really or most of them22:25
sebsebsebplymouth is not new for me at all22:25
sebsebsebsince  Mandriva was a distro that had it first ;)22:25
sebsebseb:)22:25
sebsebsebit's really  a Fedora/Redhat thing though22:26
ubuntujenkinsyep fedora had it last release22:26
sebsebsebyep and Mandriva One 2010 which came out in November22:26
sebsebsebUbuntu had that lame Xsplash effect instead22:26
sebsebsebI really didn't like that much at all,  the white Ubuntu logo in the centre of the screen on boot up, I thought it was quite pathetic really22:27
sebsebsebso when other computer went 9.10,  just like I had done before on this one,  Kubuntu xsplash theme instead.  and yes KDM :) I don't like GDM 2 much at all22:27
ubuntujenkinsyou couldn't tell if ubuntu was doing anything with just the logo22:27
sebsebsebKDM  looks a lot better in Lucid by default, since KDE 4.4 has improved it22:28
sebsebsebyes the dots are good for  plymouth in 10.0422:28
sebsebsebthe loading dots22:28
ubuntujenkinsnot really got on with kdm22:28
sebsebsebkdm  used to suck22:28
sebsebseband GDM was :)22:28
sebsebseb,but then they ruined GDM, upstream Gnome that is22:28
sebsebseband  well KDM just happens to be way better than it was :)22:28
sebsebsebLXDM the Lubuntu one, now that's a rather nice log in screen as well, with the Lubuntu logo by default22:29
ubuntujenkinsI have the lubuntu iso to try22:29
sebsebsebslim  is in repo in Lucid, rather customizable  log in screen,  and it has the Debian logo and so theme by default22:30
sebsebsebI was telling a IRC friend of mine from the Ubuntu channels,  this log in screen stuff earlier, in #ubuntu22:30
sebsebsebas well as suggesting KDM  to someone that said they were a new user :)  since they wanted a better screen22:30
sebsebseboh lubuntu is rather nice indeed22:31
sebsebsebI installed in 9.10 on other computer, but I also vm'd an ISO of beta 1 or 2   on this one22:31
sebsebsebsomething about how it won't be offical untill 10.10 though22:31
sebsebsebfor whatever reason/s22:31
ubuntujenkinsjust putting it on  a flash drive now22:32
sebsebsebLubuntu big :)22:32
sebsebsebapparantly it's also a lot more lite waight than XFCE22:33
sebsebsebubuntujenkins: I typed that upstream Gnome ruined GDM,  well  it's ok really,  I just much prefer other log in screens instead :)22:36
sebsebsebshame though that new one can't be  themed like old one, and that kind of thing,  well  with some other program maybe22:36
sebsebsebaltough I think it's can change the background, and that's about it22:37
ubuntujenkinsI have just been looking at slim, see if i can find a nice ubuntu theme for it22:37
sebsebsebthere doesn't seem to be one, well not on it's offical website anyway22:38
sebsebseb,but22:38
sebsebsebit seems by the website, that it woudn't be that hard to make our own theme22:38
sebsebsebwell I won't just recommend slim or LXDM to people in #ubuntu even though they are also good22:39
sebsebsebsince,  LXDM will say Lubuntu on it, and slim will say Debian22:39
sebsebsebby default22:39
ubuntujenkinsI had noticed, just not very artistic22:39
sebsebsebwhen getting from repo22:39
sebsebsebyou had noticed what?22:39
sebsebseboh that it's quite easy to make a theme for slim?22:39
ubuntujenkinshow easy it would be to make a slim theme22:40
sebsebsebI don't bother with graphics design myself,  I have made some basic graphics before on computer though.22:40
ubuntujenkinsI think i will go to bed night sebsebseb, good to haev a chat with you22:41
sebsebsebubuntujenkins: one last thing22:41
ubuntujenkinskk22:41
sebsebsebubuntujenkins: I think the reason the manualbot factoid for ot changed, is since they have imported a later version of the ubottu brain or however these bots work22:42
sebsebseb!manual22:42
manualbotThe Ubuntu Manual will help you become familiar with everyday tasks such as surfing the web, listening to music and scanning documents. With an emphasis on easy to follow instructions, it is suitable for all levels of experience. http://ubuntu-manual.org/22:42
sebsebsebyes22:42
sebsebsebthat seems to confirm that22:42
sebsebseb!controls22:42
manualbotIn Lucid, the minimize, maximize, and close buttons have been moved to the left side. For more information, please see http://alturl.com/b6ja | To move them back to the right-hand side, see http://alturl.com/x5d622:42
sebsebseband this22:42
ubuntujenkinssebsebseb: that may be the case, O thought dutchie would just teach the manual one to it22:43
sebsebsebubuntujenkins: yep22:43
sebsebsebubuntujenkins: also nearly 11pm is a bit early for a Saturday night isn't it?22:43
sebsebsebespesaily when it's also bank hoilday weekend22:43
ubuntujenkinsI ahev loads of uni work and am stupidly tired all the time at the moment22:43
sebsebsebubuntujenkins: I have a feeling that in the morning, you might see some more factoids from #ubuntu22:44
sebsebsebyou know why :D22:44
sebsebsebfactoids uh22:44
sebsebsebthat was meant to be highlights22:44
ubuntujenkinslol, its good you are promoting it22:44
sebsebsebubuntujenkins: yeah, but22:44
sebsebsebgot to do it correctly22:44
sebsebsebotherwise it's spamming really22:44
ubuntujenkinsyep, anyway night22:45
sebsebsebok night22:45
sebsebsebubuntujenkins: sleep tight22:45
sebsebsebgood night sleep tight22:45
sebsebsebas the saying goes22:45
sebsebsebFor anyone that might/will read this,  hrm,  I say he might have more high lights,  and then he leaves this channel, but also #ubuntu   Well if he isn't in the channel the word manual won't high light him.  Also I might not be using the word manual again in a channel tonight, don't know yet.22:48

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