[01:33]  * jdong just found one of the most amusing quotes about the Linux sound stack
[01:33] <jdong> "Linux's audio architecture is more like the layers of the Earth's crust than the network model, with lower levels occasionally erupting on to the surface, causing confusion and distress, and upper layers moving to displace the underlying technology that was originally hidden."
[01:44] <psusi> OH HELL YEA
[01:45] <psusi> wow... my first attempt at having defrag batch up requests and issue a bunch at once with readv() and writev() made it 3 times faster
[01:46] <RAOF> psusi: Sweet.  Your stuff sounds so interesting :)
[01:47] <psusi> hehe, do I have beta tester number 2? ;)
[01:53] <ajmitch> psusi: it's all safe, right? :)
[01:54] <psusi> lol, of course not ;)
[01:54] <psusi> but that's why you have a recent backup right? ;)
[01:54] <ajmitch> sure, only about 2 weeks old
[01:54] <psusi> good old dump
[01:54] <psusi> 2 weeks?  man... gotta dump every day ;)
[01:54]  * ajmitch would like to see this laptop boot up in < 30 seconds or so :)
[01:55] <psusi> 10 seconds ;)
[01:56] <ajmitch> I'd be surprised if it could manage that, it starts up a few heavy things like postgres
[01:56] <psusi> it's amayzing what you can do when you get rid of the typical 90+% time wasted waiting for disk rotations
[01:57] <ajmitch> given that I've probably got nice slow 5400 rpm drives in the laptop, it could help
[02:03] <psusi> I finally wrapped my head around the tower of hanoi dump backup pattern... and it is nice
[02:03]  * imbrandon perks up, make a 5400rpm hdd based laptop fast ?
[02:03] <imbrandon> heh
[02:50] <psusi> imbrandon, yep... trying to make some improvements to ureadahead and combine it with defrag
[02:53] <temugen> Keybuk: I updated http://bradmisik.com/trunk/fragraph/ (bzr) a bit. Still want to add some tests, comments, and possibly new graph types, but it's a lot better
[02:58] <RAOF> psusi: Your work doesn't apply to btrfs at all, does it?  That's really what I want to lose my data with at the moment :)
[03:02] <psusi> hehe, no
[03:02] <psusi> just ext2/3/4
[03:03] <ScottK> RAOF: It's unlikely you need psusi's help for that.
[03:04] <RAOF> ScottK: I might want dpkg's help, though :)
[03:04]  * psusi is still grumbling about the dpkg sync slowdown to fix ext4 bustedness
[03:57] <psusi> oh wow, a larger hash table made a big difference...
[05:33] <Keybuk> temugen: cool, pulled! :-)
[06:29] <pitti> Good morning
[06:30] <pitti> YokoZar: ah, I see
[06:32] <pitti> cjwatson: there was no definitive decision yet (something for tomorrow's TB), but my gut feeling for maverick is to use unstable; but it can certainly stay at testing for now
[06:34] <nxvl> pitti: are you suggesting that we move permanently to testing?
[06:35] <pitti> nxvl: no, I'm not; as I said, I'd prefer unstable for maverick
[06:35] <pitti> but I don't want to decide that on my own only
[06:36] <nxvl> my vote goes for sid
[06:36] <nxvl> :D
[06:37] <nxvl> btw, is archive re-org going to be in place for maverick?
[06:47] <arand> How does one debug mountall?
[06:48] <Keybuk> --debug
[06:51] <arand> Keybuk: Hmm, that works at boot? (It's the plumouth/mountall fsck stalling issue..)
[06:51] <Keybuk> isn't that supposed to be a plymouth bug?
[06:53] <arand> Keybuk: It's both mountall and plymouthd that eats cpu, depending on if you are in the graphical plymouth or jump out with arrowkey, or boot with quiet splash...
[06:53] <arand> *without "quiet splash"
[06:53] <Keybuk> yes, but that can mean it's a libplymouth bug
[06:55] <arand> Bug #571707 by the way, it seems to be rather common (I've been messing about with it quite a bit lately, there's at least plenty of bootcharts)
[06:55] <Keybuk> certainly by the e-mail volume, there are a number of people affected, yes
[07:01] <arand> Keybuk: If you want any debug/testing I've got a free virtualbox which see the issue...
[07:01] <Keybuk> I think slangasek is looking at that bug
[07:01] <Keybuk> not me
[07:03] <arand> Ah, ok.
[07:17] <dholbach> good morning
[07:58] <Keybuk> DEBUG:root:Downloading http://ftp.uk.debian.org/debian/pool/main/k/kde-l10n/kde-l1
[07:58] <Keybuk> IOError: ('http error', 404, 'Not Found', <httplib.HTTPMessage instance at 0x769bb00>)
[07:58] <Keybuk> well
[07:58] <Keybuk> screw you kd
[07:58] <Keybuk> +e
[07:59] <Keybuk> :)
[08:04] <Keybuk> hmm
[08:04] <Keybuk> that's impressive
[08:04] <Keybuk> started dist-upgrade before bed last night
[08:04] <Keybuk> DPKG IS STILL RUNNING
[08:10] <lifeless> Keybuk: fs? hardware?
[08:10] <Damascene> bug 572776
[08:10] <Keybuk> lifeless: ext4 on hard drive
[08:11] <Keybuk> dpkg is calling fsync over and over and over again
[08:11] <lifeless> \o/
[08:13] <Damascene> I hope someone looks in this bug because it's important to many users in many developed countries
[08:13] <lifeless> Damascene: do you mean developing ?
[08:14] <Damascene> I don't know. the third world countries or something like that :)
[08:15] <Damascene> windows spread there because you get what ever you want on cds and from friends
[08:15] <Damascene> in ubuntu you should have internet connection on your machine
[08:47] <pitti> jdong, slangasek, cjwatson: does either of you have some time to review by lucid-proposed uploads? (gvfs, gnome-keyring, gdm, totem); gdm might be controversial, the rest should be fine, but even though we have this gnome 2.30.x exception I'd rather not self-approve them
[08:48] <Damascene> bug 572776
[08:48] <Damascene> I see new people have come in
[08:48] <maco> same people as above, Bug #550145  permission requested
[08:49] <maco> Damascene: bring that up on ubuntu-devel-discuss@lists.ubuntu.com
[08:50] <maco> Damascene: that seems like the sort of thing that would take some planning at UDS to get done
[08:50] <Damascene> maco, ok
[08:50] <Damascene> you mean the meeting coming up?
[08:50] <maco> yes
[08:50] <maco> where the release is planned
[09:00] <nxvl> Damascene: that's kind of a trivial thing
[09:01] <Damascene> trivial? why?
[09:02] <nxvl> well, when you run apt-get upgrade all the packages get downloaded and stored in /var/cache/apt/archives/
[09:03] <nxvl> so you only need to copy all of them into a CD/USB/HD and take it to an offline machine, copy again in /var/cache/apt/archives and be happy
[09:03] <nxvl> basically
[09:03] <Damascene> not really
[09:04] <Damascene> what if you want to install new software. or what if you have cleaned the folder?
[09:05] <nxvl> if you install new software the packages get stored in the same folder
[09:05] <ghostcube> is there a reason that jackd is still not in main repo in lucid?
[09:05] <ghostcube> shouldnt this be changed?
[09:05] <nxvl> now, if you runned apt-get clean, that's a problem
[09:05] <\sh> Damascene, so how do the windows people in developing countries get their "updates" on CD? someone needs to "download" the crap right?
[09:06] <nxvl> also you will probably need to copy the content of /var/lib/apt/lists/ to do the "apt-get update" trick
[09:06] <nxvl> \sh: yes, but i think the bug report is asking for a way to that
[09:07] <\sh> nxvl, right...it's a hen <-> egg problem
[09:07] <Damascene> what I'm suggesting is more simple
[09:07] <nxvl> Damascene: now, how would you know which updates you need
[09:07] <Chipzz> Damascene: "don't do that then"
[09:07] <Chipzz> "Docter, my files are gone when I remove them"
[09:07] <Chipzz> duh
[09:07] <nxvl> what i mean is: let's assume i've a hardy system offline, last may i updated it using this magic script that gets me a CD with the updates so i can use it
[09:08] <nxvl> how would you make me not to download the updates i already installed this may
[09:08] <soren> apt-offline - offline apt package manager
[09:08] <Damascene> Chipzz, do you mean the person who need to get updates should tell his friend not to clean their system?
[09:08] <soren> Damascene, nxvl: ^^
[09:08] <nxvl> soren: yup, i knew about that one, still is not UI
[09:08] <nxvl> GUI*
[09:09] <Damascene> nxvl, try that feature in synaptic and you will know
[09:09] <nxvl> Damascene: huh?
[09:09] <soren> nxvl: Ah.
[09:09] <Damascene> synaptic will sort things out
[09:09] <kklimonda> ghostcube: something in main have to depend on it in order to get it pulled into main. fox example libjack0 is in main because it's a dependency of libasound2-plugins (and maybe other things)
[09:09] <nxvl> no it won't
[09:10] <Chipzz> Damascene: what else do you propose? redownloading them again?
[09:10] <ghostcube> kklimonda: so the dependencies for libxine to build with jackd support are in main?
[09:10] <nxvl> in that case you will need to generate some kind of report in the offline machine, then go with that to an online machine and then download the packages
[09:10] <ghostcube> then its ok
[09:10] <Damascene> nxvl, if you have updated software list. synaptic will just mark the new packages
[09:10] <nxvl> i'm taking about wasting my bw downloading things i don't need
[09:10] <nxvl> talking*
[09:10] <kklimonda> ghostcube: I don't know - apt-cache rdepends shows that libxine1-misc-plugins depends on libjack0 - is it enough?
[09:11] <ghostcube> yep thx very much should do the trick :)
[09:11] <nxvl> soren: i heard i will see you next week? is that correct?
[09:12] <Damascene> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/572776/comments/3
[09:12] <Damascene> nxvl, I've updated the report. please look at it
[09:12] <Damascene> that might help you understand what I'm saying better
[09:12] <nxvl> Damascene: let's say i've offline machine (A) and online machine (B), in machine A i already have udev up-to-date, then i go to machine B and download the new updates, how i tell machine B not to download udev?
[09:13] <nxvl> ok, got it
[09:14] <nxvl> how will you do step 2 without an internet conection?
[09:15] <Damascene> nxvl, this step need internet connection
[09:15] <Damascene> from any machine
[09:15] <nxvl> oh, ok, so i think i got it, you will do step 2 in machine B, so will need to go from machine B to machine A then back to B then back to A
[09:15] <nxvl> right?
[09:16] <Damascene> that is better than having outdated system with not being able to install the software you want on it
[09:16] <nxvl> well, you still have apt-on-cd and lots of options
[09:17] <Damascene> tell me how to use apt-on-cd on windows?
[09:17] <\sh> debmirror <release>-updates + <release-security> => burn it on a dvd => share the dvd => add the dvd to your sources list => repeat the steps every now and than, at least you need one internet connection from someone
[09:17] <nxvl> mvo: ^^ did you see that possible, to have a downloadeable Packages.gz or something like that?
[09:17] <Damascene> and again you shouldn't clean your system
[09:18] <nxvl> \sh: i think i got the idea and it's kind of good actually
[09:18] <maco> a webpage where you can upload your current dpkg --get-selections and itll spit back a list of packages you need in order to upgrade with download links... though thatd still involve right click -> save as on every single link...
[09:19] <nxvl> maco: not if you do a tiny python script
[09:19] <maco> yeah ive heard this a /lot/ from people who go to the library, use windows computers to grab a deb from packages.ubuntu.com and put it on a flashdrive, get home, and discover they fail at manual dependency resolution
[09:20] <mvo> nxvl: its possible to generate a download script like this, yes, should not even be very hard
[09:20] <Damascene> maco, right
[09:20] <maco> nxvl: or if you get the server to make a zip of the debs and pop it out as an autodownload thingy... though there'd be a loading bar involved in that
[09:20] <nxvl> so, what i'm thinking of is synaptic to generate a python script or something you can actually run on windows, mac or linux independently in step 4
[09:20] <nxvl> so you don't need to do the right click save as
[09:21] <maco> a portable app type thing maybe for the windows case
[09:21] <maco> because window doesnt have python by default
[09:21] <mvo> nxvl: ideally it would provide multiple languages, something like C#/mono, python, java
[09:21] <mvo> nxvl: depending on what the user has availalbe on the windows system (or other system)
[09:21] <nxvl> maco: the zip in the server would be kind of not what we need with this idea actually, every case will be a different set of packages for the zip
[09:21] <mvo> nxvl: but yeah, the idea of a script is certainly appealing
[09:22] <Damascene> hi, mvo
[09:22] <maco> nxvl: which is why i said itd involve a loading bar...because itd have to sit there and zip stuff up for *every* person...which is ugh
[09:22] <mvo> hey Damascene
[09:22]  * maco raises a cup o' tea to mvo
[09:22] <mvo> hey maco!
[09:23] <nxvl> mvo: yeah, i said python because it was the first i thought it can be used in several systems, maybe a compiled python script for windows (i readed once that was actually possible)
[09:23] <\sh> mvo: if you just concentrate on windows, it would be c#/vb .net ... or you provide several executables made from C (for windows, linux etc. because we don't know which OS the user is using;)
[09:23]  * mvo toasts back with a cup of sencha
[09:23] <nxvl> Damascene: are you going to be at uds?
[09:23] <kklimonda> or maybe write it in C with gtk+ ? sounds like the most portable solution. or replace C with Vala
[09:23] <mvo> nxvl: oh, cool idea, I did not think of the compiled ones
[09:23] <maco> so um i think im going to be learning c# soon
[09:23] <nxvl> this is actually an idea i kinda like
[09:24] <maco> and that ill be having a windows 7 vm living on my laptop soon
[09:24] <\sh> maco, c# is not that complicated ;)
[09:24] <Damascene> nxvl, no, I'am afraid I cant
[09:24] <maco> so that might actually fall into the category of things i could do
[09:24] <maco> \sh: yeah i know java so it should be easy
[09:24] <maco> kklimonda: windows doesnt have gtk+ by default. its another one of those things you have to tell people to install
[09:24] <nxvl> \sh: it not hard, just HORRIBLE
[09:25] <nxvl> :D
[09:25] <maco> kklimonda: which makes it not-ideal for the case where youre using a public machine on which you lack admin
[09:25] <kklimonda> maco: there is no way to distribute gtk+ library with the executable itself?
[09:25] <nxvl> mvo: so, that can be a software center plugin?
[09:25] <Damascene> myself I used downthemall to get the packages from windows machine
[09:25] <maco> kklimonda: i guess you could staticly link it....itd be HUGE
[09:25] <Damascene> for windows you can just generate text file with links
[09:26]  * \sh -> meeting
[09:26] <nxvl> Damascene: and then click on every link?
[09:26] <Damascene> no
[09:26] <nxvl> Damascene: did you have any idea how many links that could be?
[09:26] <Damascene> in downthemall you can make it download every thing on the page
[09:26] <Damascene> I did it and yes I know
[09:27] <Damascene> I used that way when I had slow internet connection
[09:27] <nxvl> Damascene: ok, let's take maco's example of people in the library, usually the users are not able to install anything on the machines
[09:27] <Damascene> ok. they have firefox
[09:27] <nxvl> maybe not
[09:27] <Damascene> just install downthemall
[09:27] <maco> they *maybe* have firefox
[09:28] <maco> they have internet explorer
[09:28] <nxvl> i will say we will need to think of an o-o-t-b windows system without the posibility to install anything else
[09:28] <nxvl> same for mac
[09:28] <maco> agreed
[09:29] <Damascene> they can use freedownloadmanager which it has portable version and can import links from txt files
[09:29] <maco> im willing to take on figuring out the windows stuff as i will soon be required by my employer to learn C#/.NET and have a windows vm
[09:29] <nxvl> maco: mono
[09:29] <nxvl> maco: :D
[09:29] <Damascene> the problem is not with getting the package in windows
[09:29] <Damascene> it's with getting the updated software list
[09:30] <nxvl> not really, that's kinda trivial
[09:30] <Damascene> nxvl, which thing? using freedownloadmanger?
[09:30] <nxvl> i just thing is completely wrong to tell a user: go download this closed source software to be able to update your open source system
[09:30] <maco> Damascene: run "dpkg --get-selections > current_packages" and then just put the current_packages file on the flash drive with the program
[09:30] <nxvl> Damascene: nop, the getting the list
[09:31] <maco> have an import option in the program to look at the current list of installed packages and from there it can figure out what packages will need to be upgraded to get from karmic to lucid
[09:31] <Damascene> nxvl, freendowloadmanager is opensource
[09:31] <nxvl> oh ok then :D
[09:31] <maco> actually, better: dpkg -ll
[09:31] <maco> bah -l
[09:31] <nxvl> does it need to be installed?
[09:31] <nxvl> maco: again, it's not GUI :D
[09:32] <nxvl> maco: apt-offline will be better
[09:32] <maco> nxvl: hmm i dont know about this
[09:32] <maco> i was just thinking if you need a way to fnd out whats installed so that you can tell the other-os-downloady-thingy that info, dpkg -l would do it
[09:32] <nxvl> maco: we need to think on our user base, we don't expect them to be techical users
[09:32] <nxvl> maco: and CLI can really scare non tech users
[09:32] <Damascene> for now I would be thankful if you just give me the software list in zipped file. and I'll take care of the rest
[09:33] <maco> nxvl: true
[09:33] <maco> nxvl: does apt-offline have a gui?
[09:33] <kklimonda> what are actual use cases we are discussing? installation of the new software, updating software in a distribution and updating distribution to a newer release?
[09:34] <maco> kklimonda: pretty much
[09:34] <nxvl> maco: well, actually the idea is to go to the ubuntu web page, get what apt-get update gets you in you system, but for offline usage, then put that on you system, then generate a list of what needs to be updated (a download-packages script) then take that to library again and be happy
[09:34] <nxvl> maco: no it doesn't, but what i mean is that  CLI tools are a lot out there
[09:34] <kklimonda> what happens if users use alternative cd to perform a dist upgrade and they don't have internet connection?
[09:35] <nxvl> kklimonda: actually all of them :D
[09:35] <maco> kklimonda: shortcut ;-)
[09:35] <maco> kklimonda: but remember that wont upgrade the bits that were installed from universe, if they exist
[09:35] <nxvl> kklimonda: actually i will take dist-upgrade out of the picture, because you can basically use an ubuntu CD to do that
[09:35] <maco> i had some brokenness when i upgraded to edy that way :(
[09:36] <maco> *edgy
[09:36] <kklimonda> maco, I know - that's why I am asking :)
[09:36] <nxvl> in that case you will need to use both, the idea we are discussing for universe, and the ubuntu cd for the core system
[09:37] <mvo> cdrom upgrades should work just fine, it may become a bit of a problem if you had a cdrom install, then did a lot of package installs with network and then later upgrade without net, that may lead to it being not able to perform the upgrade
[09:38] <tkamppeter> pitti, thank you for your quick passing through of the SRU on s-c-p, can you do the same with the Ghostscript SRU, it is segfaulting of GS when using CUPS Raster drivers (bug 539708).
[09:38] <maco> mvo: yep thats what i did from dapper to edgy :P
[09:38] <maco> mvo: i had a dadgy system for a bit there :P
[09:38] <mvo> hihi
[09:39] <StevenK> At one UDS I had a Gardy system for a while -- it was stuck between Gutsy and Hardy
[09:39] <nxvl> mvo: that's why this need to be a way to use offline "apt-get" what i was thinking is dowloading the Packages.gz and all that stuff in a format the plugin/app/* can read it and pass it to apt (/var/lib/apt/lists/) then generate the needs-update list or to-install list
[09:39] <mvo> Damascene: what was the bugnumber of the report?
[09:39] <mvo> Damascene: for this feature I mean
[09:39] <StevenK> nxvl: A tool like that already exists, I just can't remember what it's called.
[09:40] <Damascene> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/251378
[09:40] <nxvl> StevenK: is it integrated with software center?
[09:40] <Damascene> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/572776
[09:40] <StevenK> nxvl: No, it's like 6 years old
[09:40] <maco> nxvl: whereas i was thinking that you should only need to make one trip to the internets. put a list of whats currently installed into a file, go to the internets, import that list, and have a program download the Packages.gz, figure out what is needed, and do the downloading
[09:40] <nxvl> StevenK: :D
[09:41] <Damascene> mvo, got the links?
[09:41] <nxvl> maco: that *can* work aswell, but it will need more server-side computing
[09:41] <mvo> yes
[09:41] <maco> nxvl: or a smarter gui
[09:41] <nxvl> maco: which i don't see possible, or at least realistic
[09:41] <nxvl> maco: or a windows app that does that for you
[09:41] <nxvl> windows/mac/linux
[09:41] <StevenK> https://alioth.debian.org/projects/apt-offline/
[09:42] <nxvl> StevenK: what soren just mentioned :D
[09:42] <Damascene> maco, your idea is really nice. but what I suggested will work with the tools we have in hand
[09:42] <nxvl> StevenK: can you please tell debian sysadmins to update the ssl certs
[09:42] <StevenK> nxvl: "Meh"
[09:42] <nxvl> StevenK: :D
[09:43] <nxvl> i hate insomnia
[09:46] <mr_pouit> pitti: are calls to libhal{,storage} supposed to start hal? It doesn't seem to happen (Bug #546992 - thunar doesn't call hal directly, it only uses it through libhal for removable devices).
[09:46] <nxvl> well, will try to get some sleep, read yoy tomorrow
[09:49] <Damascene> StevenK, that need two ubutnu machines. right?
[09:51] <StevenK> Damascene: I think set up requires a Ubuntu machine that is off the net, and some Linux machine that is on the Internet
[09:51] <Damascene> StevenK, is there a apt-offline for rpm based?
[09:52] <StevenK> Damascene: I have no idea, I've not used a RPM-based distro for 9 years
[09:52] <Damascene> :)
[09:55] <joaopinto> good morning
[09:55] <pitti> mr_pouit: yes, they should start hal
[09:56] <pitti> mr_pouit: that just won't work if the program explicitly checks if hal is running before trying to connect to it (e. g. lshal does that)
[09:57] <joaopinto> slangasek, shouldn't the "-d" on update-manager be dropped on the release notes ?
[09:57] <mvo> joaopinto: for 8.04 -> 10.04 we still need either -d or --proposed as its not yet enabled by default
[09:58] <joaopinto> mvo, but is it safe once maverick is setup ?
[09:58] <mr_pouit> pitti: I couldn't find any check like that for thunar (quick grep), so apparently it doesn't start it (or start it too late, since it only happens on autologin?)
[09:58] <joaopinto> mvo, it doesn't comply with the "-d" purpose ;)
[09:58] <pitti> mr_pouit: might be a race condition, yes
[09:59] <pitti> but it still sounds weird
[09:59] <pitti> mr_pouit: does it work for you?
[09:59] <mvo> joaopinto: yeah, this is why I think "--proposed" is better, less confusing
[10:00] <joaopinto> Keybuk, where do the "Checking disks" messages come from ? mountall or plymouth ?
[10:01] <mr_pouit> pitti: I don't have access to my system, and I don't use autologin (I didn't feel very confident to use autologin with an encrypted /home...)
[10:02] <pitti> mr_pouit: it wouldn't work, right
[10:02] <pitti> mr_pouit: I mean, does it work for you without autologin?
[10:03] <pitti> mr_pouit: if it does, then it's not a principal problem with dbus activation and libhal, but rather a race condition somewhere
[10:03] <mr_pouit> pitti: ah yes, it worked
[10:04] <joaopinto> the "Checking disks for errors" should provide a reason, for the inexperienced user a random "Check disk for error" without a motive could lead to wrong interpretation
[10:08] <mr_pouit> pitti: and some comments on the bug report state that it works correctly if they log out/log in after the first autologin
[10:08] <pitti> mr_pouit: seems that it doesn't deal too well with that unexpected delay of hal's answer perhaps?
[10:21] <pitti> cjwatson: I'm merging debhelper, FTR
[10:23] <mr_pouit> pitti: well, I just grepped again in thunar & thunar-volman source code, and they use libhal_* functions... So I guess that somewhere libhal returns the wrong status that let think thunar that hal isn't available...
[10:31] <pitti> cjwatson: (uploaded)
[10:34] <hyperair> what's "TREE" and "MERGE-SOURCE" in bzr rebase context?
[10:37] <hyperair> ugh, bzr is such a pain to use.
[10:38] <pitti> just as with merges, remote vs. local version?
[10:38] <hyperair> pitti: which is which?
[10:38] <pitti> tree -> local
[10:38] <hyperair> is TREE local, or MERGE-SOURCE local?
[10:39] <pitti> (at least with merges)
[10:39] <hyperair> well i thought that would be so
[10:39] <hyperair> but then i removed all the "-l" from all su invocations in my local tree, but they're in the "TREE" section
[10:39] <hyperair> ugh
[10:40] <hyperair> so i thought it might be the other way round, but it doesn't seem right either
[10:40] <hyperair> honestly, why can't bzr be more straightforward, like git?
[10:40] <pitti> rotfl
[10:41]  * hyperair kicks bzr
[10:41] <pitti> hyperair: well, it should be in either tree or merge-source? there's no third party involved there
[10:41] <hyperair> @_@
[10:47] <hyperair> well i think i got it. i think.
[10:47]  * hyperair sighs.
[10:48] <hyperair> pitti: is there a way to force-push a branch?
[10:48] <pitti> bzr push --overwrite
[10:48] <hyperair> it complains about diverged-branches since i've rebased
[10:49] <pitti> hyperair: oh, you rebased a publicly pushed branch?
[10:49] <pitti> (that's why rebasing is bad :) )
[10:49] <hyperair> pitti: i was asked to rebase by crankyadmin
[10:49] <hyperair> whoops
[10:49] <hyperair> bad tab complete
[10:49] <hyperair> crimsun:
[10:49] <hyperair> pitti: it's a one-fix thing anyway
[10:49] <pitti> --overwrite is the equivalent of git push -f
[10:49] <hyperair> ah okay, thanks
[10:49] <crankyadmin> ?!?.... /me knows nothing....
[10:49] <hyperair> crankyadmin: yeah sorry i typed cr and tabcompleted, and your name came out
[10:50] <crankyadmin> np
[11:01] <arand> Is tasksel supposed to be usable on an in-use system?
[11:09] <joaopinto> arand, I think so
[11:10] <joaopinto> arand, at least the wiki entry for LAMP advises to use tasksel
[11:11] <arand> joaopinto: Hmm, well the old wiki doc states that it shouldn't really be used outside a liveCD, I was just thinking how valid my Bug #574287 actually was...
[11:12] <sits> I can't tell if this is the right channel
[11:13] <sits> but using a custom compiled kernel with 10.04 seems to stop plymouth from starting (it seems to segfault)
[11:14] <ion> If the standard kernel works, your kernel is probably configured incorrectly.
[11:14] <sits> ion: indeed - but the next question is how is it misconfigured :)
[11:14] <sits> it has KMS in it already so that's not a problem
[11:14] <tkamppeter> pitti, hi
[11:15] <sits> things are muddied further because it seems really hard to get plymouth going on a "normal" kernel if I boot to single user mode first
[11:15] <sits> (e.g. boot to single user mode then boot to runlevel 5 then try and start plymouth)
[11:16] <sits> it does the VT switching but no splash screen is displayed
[11:17] <pitti> hi tkamppeter
[11:18] <arand> joaopinto: Hmm, well the old wiki doc states that it shouldn't really be used outside a liveCD, I was just thinking how valid my Bug #574287 actually was...
[11:18] <arand> joaopinto: Sorry, ignore.
[11:19] <joaopinto> arand, the bug seems valid to me, there is nothing on the manapage which refers *install only*
[11:20] <joaopinto> anyway if that was the case why should it allow to remove packages during the install :) ?
[11:20] <narendra> HI,,
[11:20] <tkamppeter> pitti, I see you have worked on the SRU of bug 564633. You have put it to "Fix Released" and then back to "Fix Committed". What did you actually do?
[11:21] <narendra> I am working on custom live DVD, may you want to share your experince with me
[11:21] <arand> joaopinto: Aha!, Think I figured it out it removes the whole of ubuntu-desktop, provided you have manaually removed the ubuntu-desktop meta pkg earlier...
[11:22] <narendra> I am creating a 2.5GB live iso of ubuntu , but i am worry about distributing and installation methods
[11:22] <kklimonda> tkamppeter: an update from -proposed has been copied over to maverick and it's fixed there. it's still not fixed in lucid so a new task has been opened.
[11:22] <narendra> we need to distribute this iso to hundreds of schools in India
[11:23] <tkamppeter> kklimonda, pitti: So for Lucid it is still in the "verification needed" mode?
[11:23] <kklimonda> tkamppeter: yes
[11:26] <tkamppeter> pitti, this SRU is a fix of the problem for most users, but there is a second problem with the Kyocera FS-1800+ of the poster of the bug for which I have created a three-line patch now. How should this be handled? Replace the current SRU by a new one with this patch added or wait for this SRU to be closed and then post a second SRU?
[11:28] <narendra> Dear developers, please show some lights,,,,,,,,,,
[11:30] <joaopinto> narendra, I am not sure which kind of guidance are you looking for :) do you have a specific doubt ?
[11:31] <narendra> joaopinto, yes, basically, I am making a SchoolOS livd DVD, 2.5 GB ubuntu karmic based
[11:31] <narendra> joaopinto, which is going to distribute in various schools of india at mass level
[11:32] <narendra> joaopinto, but the problem, is i am unable to figure out the distribution method.
[11:32] <joaopinto> karmic is a bad option, specially for a large distribution
[11:32] <narendra> joaopinto, then what should i choose ?
[11:33] <joaopinto> narendra, lucid, because it's a long term support release
[11:33] <narendra> joaopinto, http://schoolos.org this is indias biggest foss implentation project
[11:33] <narendra> joaopinto, I afraid of bugs, and it is very recently released
[11:33] <joaopinto> narendra, your question hints that you are not prepared yet for such a large task :)
[11:34] <narendra> joaopinto, I have prepared beta version using karmic,,
[11:34] <joaopinto> narendra, right, but there are greater chances of having the bug fixes, compared to karmic
[11:34] <narendra> joaopinto, iso size is  2.1GB big.,
[11:35] <narendra> joaopinto, but schools hardware maynot be able to boot 2.1GB live iso image
[11:36] <narendra> joaopinto, If i send , LiveDVD, then ram size is issue....
[11:36] <pitti> tkamppeter: I copied lucid-proposed to maverick; this causes some confusing LP bug spam, sorry about that
[11:36] <joaopinto> narendra, you are starting the way around, first you have the image and the OS ready, and now you are checking the requirements :) ?
[11:38] <narendra> joaopinto, See idea from day one is to give big DVD with all software because many schools do not nave Internet or have limited bandwidth to download updates,,
[11:38] <pitti> tkamppeter: you are welcome to upload a followup SRU; if you do that, please use debuild -S -v 1.2.0+20100408-0ubuntu5 (this will make both changelogs appear in the sources.changes)
[11:39] <narendra> joaopinto, I think live USB is a good option, live usb won't be that show as live DVD
[11:39] <tkamppeter> pitti, thanks, I will do so.
[11:40] <tkamppeter> pitti, can you approve the SRU of Ghostscript for bug 539708? Thanks.
[11:40] <pitti> tkamppeter: I'll have a look at it soon; but it's a very complicated patch, thus will take a bit
[11:42] <tkamppeter> pitti, Daniel J Blueman has reported in the upstream bug report at Ghostscript that it fixed segfaults on 2032 files for him.
[11:52] <pitti> tkamppeter: ugh, on how many did he test it? :-)
[11:53] <tkamppeter> pitti, this I do not know, at least he had many segfaults and these segfaults have gone away for him.
[11:53] <pitti> nice
[11:54] <tkamppeter> pitti, for me I also did not succeed to make Ghostscript segfaulting any more when converting PDF to CUPS raster.
[11:57] <tkamppeter> pitti, new s-c-p SRU uploaded.
[11:59] <sianis> asac: could you review this merge? https://code.launchpad.net/~sianis/desktop-webmail/hungarian-translations/+merge/24562
[11:59] <ari-tczew> seb128: could you open a task on karmic in bug 574262 ? I want to prepare a patch to fix it by sru.
[12:00] <seb128> ari-tczew, sorry I've to run for lunch now, will have a look later
[12:00] <ari-tczew> in total anyone could open a task in above bug, please
[12:01] <seb128> ari-tczew, why do you care about it? users who need the feature will have moved away from karmic since and new installs will be lucid
[12:01] <seb128> there is no reason to install karmic over lucid now
[12:02] <seb128> lunch, bbl
[12:02] <patrick42h> sun's coming up, time for bed
[12:02] <ari-tczew> seb128: bug-requester says that he administrate 18 computers based on karmic, so I think that would be nice help him, or not?
[12:05] <asac> sianis: yep. thanks. will look at that when i get to that merge request email ;)
[12:07] <highvoltage> is maverick open for uploads yet?
[12:11] <ajmitch> don't think it's quite open, though there've been toolchain uploads
[12:13] <Laney> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/maverick-changes/2010-May/thread.html
[12:14] <james_w> it's frozen, so you can upload and everything will just land in UNAPPROVED anyway
[12:14] <james_w> it will probably be a day or two before it is fully open
[12:14] <pitti> gcc-4.5 FTBFSed
[12:14] <Laney> lp/ubuntu/maverick just times out :(
[12:15] <highvoltage> james_w: ok great
[12:45] <ari-tczew> where maverick is looking in Debian? testing or unstable?
[12:47] <near> does anyone knows why every time i reboot my desktop settings go back to default?
[12:47] <near> I have to set up the dual monitors configuration and the wallpaper all over again
[14:13] <lool> james_w: Hmm, ISTR I could branch from lp:debian/unstable/foo as well as lp:debian/sid/foo, was it my fantasy?  I can't with lp:debian/unstable/logcheck at least
[14:14] <lool> james_w: Also, logcheck 1.3.8 was uploaded 2010-04-15, but that didn't make it to the sid branch
[14:14] <lool> Hmm it's listed in the 16738 outstanding jobs at http://package-import.ubuntu.com/status/
[14:24] <Lutin> Keybuk: would you have any clue as to why upstart would hang upon receiving a 'amba-device-added' event on startup ?
[14:33] <james_w> lool: no, you can't do that, there's a bug open on LP requesting that feature
[14:33] <james_w> lool: and the importer is currently paused while we open maverick
[14:33] <james_w> should be unpaused today or tomorrow
[14:33] <lool> james_w: Ok
[14:34] <lool> james_w: It's been uploaded 15+ days ago though
[14:34] <lool> But I guess there was some backlog for whatever reason
[14:34] <lool> james_w: thanks for checking
[14:34] <james_w> lool: hmm, let me look then
[14:35] <james_w> lool: that was because launchpad hasn't seen it yet for some reason: https://edge.launchpad.net/debian/+source/logcheck/+publishinghistory
[14:38] <pitti> Keybuk: hm, it seems ureadahead reads the queue/rotational attribute for deciding between SSD and HDD
[14:38] <pitti> Keybuk: did you ever see that lie? I'm ssh'ed to a bug reporter's machine with an SSD, and all /sys/dev/block/*/queue/rotational are 1
[14:38] <pitti> that might cause ureadahead to not perform optimally?
[14:39] <lool> james_w: Ok thanks
[14:42] <pitti> Keybuk: (it's correct on the mini, though)
[15:28] <pitti> tkamppeter: ghostscript and new s-c-p accepted
[15:32] <Lutin> Keybuk: and more importantly, would you know what could generate this amba-device-added event ?
[15:34] <zul> pitt: is it possible to accept the landscape-client in *-proposed...thanks
[15:35] <pitti> zul: can you please reupload the karmic one with correct -v? it's two new versions in one
[15:35] <zul> pitti: sure
[15:36] <pitti> zul: jaunty, too; please upload with e. g. -v1.4.4-0ubuntu0.9.04 for jaunty
[15:37] <pitti> (or merge the changelogs)
[15:37] <zul> pitti: will do
[15:37] <pitti> zul: thanks
[15:38] <dholbach> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek starting in 23m in #ubuntu-classroom
[15:38] <tkamppeter> pitti, thanks.
[16:37] <ari-tczew> seb128: ping
[16:37] <seb128> ari-tczew, hey
[16:37] <ari-tczew> seb128, so what about bug 574262 ?
[16:37] <seb128> yes?
[16:38] <seb128> sorry I'm at a sprint right now
[16:38] <seb128> i.e busy with other things
[16:39] <ari-tczew> aha ...
[16:39] <seb128> if you want to work on it get a debdiff on the bug and subscribe sponsors
[16:40] <seb128> I've no interest in the issue to be honest, as said people are dealing that for 6 months now and should be moving to lucid now
[16:40] <seb128> i.e I don't want to spend time on karmic...
[16:49] <zul> pitti: it looks like i cant nominate bugs for lucid sru's is there anything i need to do?
[16:51] <smoser> cjwatson, what is the bug number of the plymouth bug you were chasing on thurdsay (that resulted in your posts at http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/plymouth/2010-April/thread.html#350)
[16:52] <El_Presidente> im sorry if i bug in here but im not sure if that bug report i filed is enough to tell the devs what error i have https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/572146
[16:57] <crankyadmin> El_Presidente, "HOW TO GET FIXEX NO SOUND IS NO FUN I NEED CRISPY SOUND SYSTEM 5.1HOW TO GET FIXEX NO SOUND IS NO FUN I NEED CRISPY SOUND SYSTEM 5.1" Wtf?!?!
[16:58] <El_Presidente> thatzs not mine :(
[16:58] <maco> wow caps
[16:58] <crankyadmin> my bad! :D
[16:58] <El_Presidente> im sorry for that nerd but thats not me
[17:00] <El_Presidente> crankyadmin, any suggestions what information i can add?
[17:03] <crankyadmin> El_Presidente, nope. Although I would have my finger on Alsa screwing with interrupts for what ever reason.
[17:04] <El_Presidente> crankyadmin, i did a fresh installation of 10.04 on a second harddrive to avoid upgrade bugs
[17:04] <El_Presidente> but the error is still present
[17:04] <El_Presidente> but thank you ;)
[17:05] <crankyadmin> It is more likely a change that has been made within the drivers. Someone will pick it up...
[17:05] <El_Presidente> ok
[17:06] <El_Presidente> is there a way to remove the spam comment?
[17:46] <sits> hi I've been trying to debug a mountall issue
[17:46] <sits> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mountall/+bug/571707
[17:56] <arand> sits: Ask the question-proper ;) (I'm also poking in that one as you might've noticed, you got anything interesting?)
[17:57] <sits> arand: :)
[17:58] <sits> it seems to happen with multiple themes
[17:58] <sits> a backlog seems to be build up
[17:58] <sits> and when I try and trace it the last thing I get is inside the plymouth library
[18:02] <sits> arand: I genuinely think it could be down to plymouth being sent thousands of messages
[18:03] <sits> e.g. 80% 80% 80%... 81% 81% 81% etc.
[18:07] <sits> arand: I'm wondering if the progress bar is being read too frequently
[18:07] <arand> sits: Hmm, well I ran it with plymouth:debug and it does spew a bunch of messages, but not overly frequently, so I*m not sure if that's it...
[18:10] <sits> arand: duplicates apparently get weeded out
[18:10] <sits> but the question becomes at what stage?
[18:12] <arand> sits: Hmm, I wrote the log to file and since I pretty much left it running for an hour or two I only have 91% as the lowest thing in the log, of which there are 1658 occurences, but I've no idea if that says anything..
[18:13] <sits> well it suggests some filtering could take place I guess
[18:14] <sits> the progress needs to be read and sent less frequently
[18:15] <sits> but that suggests you were only getting updated every second
[18:16] <arand> sits: Ah, no that's only for the messages stating  "91%" However it must've remained at that point for more than 2-10 minutes though.. I think
[18:16] <sits> hmm scratch that
[18:16] <sits> ah ok
[18:16] <arand> *5-10
[18:17] <sits> my question is does fsck really generate that many updates
[18:17] <sits> or are some being synthesized?
[18:19] <arand> The speed at which the precentage in the plymouth splash increases is definitely quicker that the interval at which the debug messages are being printed if switching out to the debug via arrowkey.
[18:22] <sits> arand: well in my case the fsck is finished in seconds
[18:22] <sits> but then the updates keep being sent
[18:23] <sits> arand: we could do with a breakpoint in fsck_reader
[18:23] <sits> to see how often plymouth_progress is really called
[18:24]  * arand felt something whosh over his head just there
[18:25] <Tm_T> arand: yeah, we have some bats around here, just ignore them
[18:26] <arand> sits: Yea... I'm severely lacking in that gdm-fu you speak of...
[18:27] <sits> arand: ah 'tis a pity
[18:27] <sits> you see to have a better setup for testing this than me
[18:27] <arand> sits: but if you want me to copy-paste commands I'm all ears :)
[18:27] <sits> do you have more than one system?
[18:28] <arand> sits: I'm using a virtualbox
[18:28] <sits> ah good good
[18:29] <sits> arand: ok first you need to go to runlevel 1
[18:29] <sits> er
[18:29] <sits> let me msg you
[19:02] <shtylman> did something happen to libactiverecord-ruby ?
[19:06] <Pici> shtylman: see debian #574154
[19:07] <shtylman> Pici: thanks
[19:13] <robertzaccour> i recently discovered a bug, reported it this morning. i did apport-collect but don't see anything added to the report
[19:14] <robertzaccour> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/574406 thats the bug
[19:27] <narendra> hi
[19:27] <robertzaccour> i recently discovered a bug, reported it this morning. i did apport-collect but don't see anything added to the report
[19:27] <robertzaccour> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/574406 thats the bug
[19:27] <narendra> may anybody tell me how to build ubuntu ? I mean what script ubuntu developer use to create ubuntu distribution
[19:28] <robertzaccour> thats the bug
[19:29] <narendra> may anybody tell me how to build Ubuntu ? I mean what script Ubuntu developer use to create Ubuntu distribution... I want to learn about Ubuntu build process
[19:31] <jdong> pitti: ack sorry, end of term life has been hectic. which bugs would you like me to look at?
[19:31] <robertzaccour> me?
[19:31] <robertzaccour> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/574406 thats the bug
[19:34] <cjs> Two release note issues:
[19:34] <cjs> 1. The 10.04 release notes still go to http://www.ubuntu.com/testing/lucid/beta1, which claims it's still in beta.
[19:35] <cjs> 2. This should really go in the release notes: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qemu-kvm/+bug/574665
[19:36] <narendra> anybody give some hint
[19:36] <narendra>  how to build Ubuntu ? I mean what script Ubuntu developer use to create Ubuntu distribution... I want to learn about Ubuntu build process
[19:36] <cjs> narendra: It's not on the wiki?
[19:37] <respire> sorry to ask a support(ish) question but its to support my dev. Synaptic somehow knows that I chose to use root not sudo to execute priviliged instructions. How does it know this, more to the point how can I make my program know this
[19:37] <Pici> cjs: The first should be filed as a bug in the ubuntu-website project on launchpad
[19:38]  * respire can think of several ways to do it but wasnts to be consistent with the "ubuntu way"
[19:38] <narendra> cjs : I think not
[19:38] <robertzaccour> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/574406
[19:38] <robertzaccour> thats the bug i reported this morning
[19:39] <narendra> cjs: wiki contains how to make custom live CD, It tell about remastering or spining distro but not about the actual build process
[20:00] <robertzaccour> ok added stuff to the bug report
[20:00] <robertzaccour> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+bug/574406
[20:00] <robertzaccour> any hope?
[20:01] <robertzaccour> i'm gonna get a plug in mic and see how my luck is
[20:23] <baptistemm_> there is no way to have voice on #ubuntu-kernel
[20:26] <JFo> baptistemm_, there is, but your nick must be registered with FreeNode
[20:26] <baptistemm_> hmm, okay thanks
[20:26] <JFo> np\
[20:45] <xaver__> hi Keybuk
[20:48] <qense> http://popcon.ubuntu.com/ seems to have troubles with loading images on the overview page.
[21:21] <ccheney> jcastro: did you see the 3s lucid boot?
[21:21] <jcastro> what?
[21:21] <ccheney> http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=9124494&postcount=404
[21:21] <ccheney> well 3.14s to be exact
[21:22] <ccheney> later in the thread he mentioned a couple optimizations he did to speed it up
[21:22] <ccheney> noop scheduler and preempt kernel apparently
[23:07] <bluefoxicy> why does firefox not render anything until it has images ~_~
[23:30] <nxvl> kees: can you please add me to ubuntu-sponsors
[23:35] <kees> nxvl: sure, one sec
[23:35] <xnox> Is there a package which is ubuntu-required ubuntu-base
[23:36] <xnox> generated from the seeds
[23:36] <xnox> asking because I'm helping to bootstrap ubuntu lucid without using debootstrap
[23:36] <kees> nxvl: done
[23:36] <xnox> or am I better off just sending the list generated by deboostrap --print-debs
[23:37] <nxvl> kees: thanks