/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2010/05/03/#ubuntu-kernel.txt

benhhoy04:13
jk-heya benh04:13
benhis there a known trick to boot lucid without an initramfs ?04:13
benhI used to netboot my machines just fine, netbooting a zImage without initramfs (all needed modules built-in)04:13
benhwith karmic04:13
benhbut it looks like with lucid, init goes bonkers really early on if I do that04:13
benhhi jk !04:14
benh(btw, appart from that, lucid on a dual g5 seems to work fine :-)04:14
jk-"bonkers" eh?04:14
jk-so you've re-built the lucid kernel from linux-source ?04:15
jk-(to compile-in various modules..)04:16
benhjk-: when have you last seen me use a distro kernel ? :-)04:17
benhjk-: no, I compile whatever upstream I want to test on that box, stick the zImage on bran for tftpboot04:17
benhjk-: etc...04:17
jk-that's why I was confused :)04:18
benhjk-: I was wondering if something in the "new" init process actually requires to be initiated from an initramfs04:18
jk-no idea; Keybuk might know04:18
benhin which case I suppose I'll try to figure out what the minimum initramfs without any kernel module is04:18
benhthat I can just stick into my zImages04:18
benhok04:18
jk-but he might be asleep at the moment..04:20
jk-but you could try messing with mkinitramfs to see if you can create one without modules04:21
benhjk-: will try later, thx04:28
Keybukbenh: you shouldn't need an initramfs05:32
Keybukwe test that a lot05:32
Keybukchances are that instead you've forgotten an important kernel config05:32
benhKeybuk: ok, something went wrong then05:33
benhKeybuk: possibly :-) the errors aren't very verbose05:33
* maco wonders if by "test" Keybuk means "accidentally delete then hope it reboots okay"05:33
benhKeybuk: is there a magic cmdline arg I can use to make it more chatty ?05:33
benhI'll try again with current upstream in a few mn05:33
Keybukmaco: that, and some of our OEM images are initramfs-less05:34
Keybukbenh: --verbose05:35
benhKeybuk: on the kernel command line ?05:35
Keybukyes05:35
benhok cool, thanks, will try05:35
benhif I need something more in .config, I'll add it to upstream g5_defconfig :-)05:35
benhKeybuk: ok so it's not happy, I must be missing something :-)05:55
benhudev dies, udevmonitor goes unhappy, then mountall disconnects from plymouth and plymouth takes a SEGV :-)05:56
benhand nothing greats me with even a busybox shell, so it's non trivial to dig from there...05:57
Keybukinteresitng05:57
Keybukdid you compile support for udev into your kernel? :)05:57
Keybukthat sounds a lot like a missing netlink socket issue05:57
benhhrm05:57
benhthat should be there, let me see05:57
benhany off hand idea of what config option we are talking about here ?05:59
benhhrm... you need devtmpfs ?05:59
Keybukno, shouldn't need devtmpfs06:02
Keybuk(you will in later releases)06:02
benhlet me disable deprecated sysfs interfaces...06:04
benhand try again06:04
Keybukoh, yeah, those can't be on ;)06:05
benhhrm06:10
benhsame06:10
benhudevd[xxxx]: failed to create queue file: No such file or directory06:10
benhI think that's where it starts going down :-)06:10
benhfollowed by dev main process dying06:10
benhudevadm getting errors trying to talk to udev06:10
benhmountall going bonk06:10
benhand plymouth segfaulting :-)06:10
benhallright, looks like I need to get myself udev source, brb06:11
* benh starts adding funny printf's to udev06:16
benhI wonder if we are just missing /.udev directory actually06:17
benhthis is not a fresh install, rather an upgrade, so maybe that's missing06:17
* jk- doesn't have a /.udev06:20
benhjk-: there's a prefix, trying to figure it out06:20
benhjk-: once apt-get install build-essential is done :-)06:20
jk-ah :)06:20
benhjk-: I'll add some printf's to udev see what it's really doing. Might even add a system("/bin/sh"); to the error path followed by a goto try_again :-)06:21
benhhrm... nore build-deps06:22
benhjk-: at least we have a new faster internet in the office now :-)06:22
jk-benh: they wet the string again, I hear :)06:23
jk-is that just on the 10.61 network, or for the whole building?06:24
benhjk-: yeah well, if you guys didn't have ports.ubuntu.com hooked up to a 9600bps modem off a landline in the northern highlands it would be easier :-)06:24
benhjk-: just us, we have an adsl 2 and a smart routing on haven06:25
Keybukbenh: that "prefix" is just /dev06:25
jk-cool06:25
Keybukbut if mountall is "going bonk", you won't have a tmpfs on /dev06:25
Keybukso udev won't be able to start06:25
benhKeybuk: could be that yes06:25
benhKeybuk: with a boot with your kernel, I see a devtmpfs there tho06:26
benhKeybuk: which is a different beast alltogether :-)06:26
Keybukno it isn't06:26
Keybukdevtmpfs is just a tmpfs06:26
Keybukbut one in which the kernel calls mknod() and unlink()06:26
benhhe yeah06:26
benhthe new devfs from hell :-)06:27
benh<Keybuk> no, shouldn't need devtmpfs06:27
benhlet me see, i looks like I don't have that enabled, let's see if it works with it on06:27
benhweird, I though I -had- turned it on06:27
benhoh well06:27
Theravadanwhy are the kernel sources from mainline blank? http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/daily/2010-05-01-lucid/06:27
Keybukyou don't need it enabled06:27
Keybukas I said06:27
Keybukyou can mount a tmpfs on /dev just fine06:28
Theravadanvs http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/daily/2010-04-14-lucid/06:28
benhok06:28
benhKeybuk: do I need to stick that in fstab then or should your init script do the right thing ?06:28
Keybukit'll do the right thing06:28
benhok so something is wrong there, I'll see if I can dig06:28
Keybuknone            /dev                      devtmpfs,tmpfs  mode=0755                         0 006:28
Keybukthat says "try devtmpfs then try tmpfs"06:28
benhok, and tmpfs should definitely be there06:29
benhI'll add a system("/bin/sh"); to udev error path06:29
benhand see what /proc/mount looks like06:29
benhKeybuk: any pointer where to look at that part of the boot script ? I'm not familiar with ubuntu variant of "init"06:35
Keybuk"the boot script" ?06:36
KeybukI don't know what boot script you're referring to06:36
benhKeybuk: whichever piece of script you have at boot that mounts tmpfs on /dev and starts udev06:36
benhKeybuk: or is that a mountall rule ?06:36
benh(built-in into mountall ?)06:36
Theravadanapril 5th is the last day that kernel source was included in the mainline daily builds: http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/daily/2010-04-05-karmic/06:37
Keybukbenh: we don't have "pieces of script!06:37
benh:-)06:37
Keybukyou're not being very helpful btw06:37
Theravadangrrh that's karmic not lucid06:37
Keybuk"going bonk" is not a descriptive pharse06:37
lifelesswe have pieces of 806:37
Keybuk"mountall prints the following error message and exits ..." would be more helpful06:37
benhKeybuk: well, it's all I can say until I've added some printf in there to see what's going on06:37
benhKeybuk: nothing, it just exits with status 106:37
benhafaik06:38
benhthose boot messages are slippery in --verbose mode06:38
benhanyways, let me dig a bit, I'm adding some debug to udev and mountall to see what's going on06:38
benhI was just wondering what in your boot process actually starts udev06:38
Keybukinit06:38
benhis that an initscript in rc.* ?06:38
Keybukno06:38
benhyeah but that's not sysvinit right ?06:38
Keybuk/etc/init/udev.conf06:38
benhoic06:39
benhok, I'm not familiar with that new variant of init, but it makes some sense now06:39
Keybukall the cool kids are writing new init daemons nowadays :p06:39
benhhehe yeah06:39
jk-yeah, i see lennart is too...06:39
benhand it assumes /dev/ already has tmpfs mounted on it and some kind of .udev created there previously ?06:39
Keybukbenh: assumes /dev is some kind of tmpfs, doesn't assume .udev exists06:40
lifelesslennart is writing an upstart ? ;P06:40
benhk06:40
benhah06:41
* benh finds mountall built-in fstab06:41
Keybuklifeless: yes06:41
benhthings are getting a bit clearer now06:41
jk-lifeless: http://lwn.net/Articles/385536/06:41
Keybuklifeless: well, Lennart is writing his own implementation of launchd, mostly06:41
Keybukbenh: mountall basically just runs mount on those things when the underlying block devices are ready06:41
Keybukvirtual filesystems have no underlying block devices, of course06:41
Keybukhowever06:42
KeybukI would guess that mountall isn't getting that far06:42
KeybukI think mountall is probably failing to connect to the kernel06:42
benhI'll sprinkle some debugging in there06:42
lifelessisn't launchd fairly pitiful compared to upstart?06:42
Keybuklifeless: Lennart doesn't think so06:43
KeybukLennart thinks upstart is fairly pitiful compared to launchd06:44
lifelessheh06:44
Keybukread his post06:44
Keybukit's really quite well written06:44
lifelessdoing so06:44
Keybukand explains how launchd works fairly well06:44
Keybuk(most people don't get it)06:44
lifelessI doubt I have time in the near future to revisit and look closely; which is why I asked :)06:45
KeybukI think I've explained it before06:48
Keybuklaunchd is basically inetd06:48
Keybukyou start all services at once06:48
lifelessKeybuk: lets do it over beer next week06:48
Keybukand let them block on each other's connect() and open() calls06:48
Keybukthe big gaping flaw in this is the deadlock problem <g>06:49
TheravadanI have tried everything but I keep getting "kernel source for this kernel does not seem to be installed." what the heck does it expect? strace shows it's looking at the debian list of files for the linux-source package. the source package includes a tarball. I have no idea what it expects06:59
macoTheravadan: are you trying to install vbox guest extensions?06:59
Theravadanmaco, trying to install the proprietary broadcom module06:59
macooh07:00
macomaybe install linux-headers-2.6.32-2107:00
Theravadanit was working with the fresh 10.04 install but now that I upgraded the kernel the kernel sources aren't how it expects07:00
macothough that didnt work for the vbox user that was asking this earlier.... it *should* contain everything you need for compilation though07:00
Theravadanmaco, i installed these: linux-headers-2.6.34-999_2.6.34-999.201004051003_all.deb / linux-image-2.6.34-999-generic_2.6.34-999.201004051003_amd64.deb / linux-source-2.6.34_2.6.34-999.201004051003_all.deb07:01
Theravadanuname -a = 2.6.34-999-generic #201004051003 SMP Mon Apr 5 09:10:16 UTC 2010 x86_64 GNU/Linux07:01
macooh07:02
benhyay07:10
benhKeybuk: that was easy ...07:10
benhKeybuk: guess what ? boot with "rw" on the kernel command line works :-)07:10
benhKeybuk: not entirely sure yet what's up, still digging07:11
Keybukdefinitely sounds to me like mountall can't connect to the kernel then07:11
benhKeybuk: is mountall supposed to stay running forever or just during boot ?07:11
KeybukI only ever normally see that on older kernels07:11
Keybukwhich don't support uevent netlink socket groups07:11
Keybukjust during boot07:11
benhok07:11
benhlet me dbl check that uevent netlink socket thingy07:12
benhcould be some ppc netlink bustage too07:13
benhI've heard rumours of something like that not long ago07:13
KeybukOOI, why are you building your own kernel?07:14
Keybukwhy not just use the stock Ubuntu one?07:14
benhKeybuk: because I'm the kernel maintainer and test things ? :-)07:15
benhKeybuk: this is a test box for random powerpc kernel crap :-)07:15
benhhrm07:17
benhmountall seems happy enough when started after boot, dunno if that's telling anything07:17
Keybukno, not raelly07:17
Keybukmountall should work at all times07:17
Theravadanso dpkg is looking for /lib/modules/2.6.34-999-generic/build, it doesnt exist then it complains about not finding the kernel source07:19
benhwhat would rock would be an upstart option that starts everything with strace and shoot the output to somewhere on disk :-)07:19
benhKeybuk: mountall seems happy enough07:40
benhKeybuk: udevmonitor dies tho07:40
benhstill digging07:40
Keybuksee, that really screams the netlink socket to me ;)07:40
Keybukeverything that connects to it is dying07:40
benhyeah07:41
Keybukbet you upstart-udev-bridge dies too07:41
benhexcept that I don't see why... ie, it should be there (in the kernel)07:43
benhoh well, I'll dig more07:43
KeybukI'm not sure whether there's an option for it07:50
KeybukI thought it was built-in07:50
Keybukbut somehow OpenVZ guys manage to turn it off07:50
Keybukso maybe there is a hidden one07:50
mase_wkkirkland: According to the KVM page here (http://preview.tinyurl.com/yd8uztw) the CONFIG_INTR_REMAP and CONFIG_DMAR need to be set. This is not currently set in the ubuntu-kernel for 10.04 nor 9.10 however since 9.04 PCI passthrough has been advertised08:00
mase_wkhttp://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu/serveredition/technologies/virtualization08:00
mase_wkI've updated one of our test machines from Karmic to Lucid and my boss had a Guest on this machine using PCI passthrough which has subsequently stopped working ( unless i remove the pci-passthrough option )08:02
mase_wkwas there another method aside from CONFIG_INTR_REMAP which allowed KVM to use VTd which is currently not available ?08:03
mase_wki've pretty much reached the limits of my knowledge and was hoping you could point me in some other areas to start looking. Someone in ubunt-virt suggested that you might have more knowledge of the inner kernel workings in regards to KVM08:05
benhKeybuk: getting fun ... so mountall is in the middle of mounting things, has done /lib/init/rw but not /dev yet08:13
benhKeybuk: kernel decides to create the mouse button emu pseudo-dev at that moment08:13
benhKeybuk: and udev segfaults :-)08:13
benhKeybuk: adding more debug...08:14
Keybukhuh08:16
benhhrm... something tells me that signalfd isn't going to get SEGV's :-)08:20
benhhrm, udev main process doesn't seem to have a useful stderr08:28
benhoh well, more debugging tomorrow, wife o'clock08:32
benhI -suspect- something weird causing mountall not not complete before udev starts08:33
benhso udev dies due to /dev/ beeing ro08:33
benh(no tmpfs yet)08:33
benhor that sort of shit08:33
benhwill find out & let you know, enough spamming of this chan :-)08:34
benhthanks for your tips08:34
benhbye08:34
ograKeybuk, booting without devtmpfs *and* without initramfs doesnt work already (we had that issue in armel land where qemu doesnt use initramfs for bringing up an AMR VM)09:48
ograKeybuk, you wont have /ved/console and /dev/null09:48
ogra*dev09:49
bjfmoin tgardner 10:03
tgardnerbjf, dude ain't it the middle of your night?10:04
bjftgardner, im in Utrecht10:04
tgardnerindeed. is that where the audio thing was?10:05
bjfyup10:05
tgardnerah, then you'll be all synced up tz wise10:05
tgardnerdoes it go all week?10:05
bjfwill be by wed. i hope10:05
bjfno will see you on wed. in la hulpe10:05
tgardnercool. I should be there by 4P10:06
bjftgardner, not sure when I will get in, have all day to get there :-)10:06
tgardnerI'm on eurostar10:06
bjfi need to get  a train from amsterdam to brussels via rotterdam10:07
bjfi think it's only a couple of hours10:07
tgardnerbjf, why via Rotterdam? Seems a bit out of the way10:08
bjfthat is what I was told to do by the powers that be10:08
tgardnerbjf, you mean our super competent travel people?10:09
psurbhitgardner, i think thats how the train goes10:09
psurbhireally10:09
psurbhivia rotterdam10:09
psurbhimost of them atleast10:09
bjfi was told it was much more expensive any other way, randa has been helping me10:09
tgardnerok, I thought you might have some errands there or something10:10
bjfhonestly i kind of look forward to the trip :-)10:10
tgardnerbjf, was the audio conf over the weekend, or is it still ongoing?10:11
bjfstarted sat. and going through tomorrow10:11
bjfam there now10:11
tgardnerah, I'll quit bugging you10:11
bjfit's "interesting"10:11
bjfvery little applicable to us10:12
bjfmostly high end audio pro folks, musicians and researchers10:12
tgardnerat least you can get a sense for whom is in our audience10:13
bjfyes, i'm finding it interesting and meeting people10:13
bjfthough how many languages you need to write synthesizers i don't get :-)10:14
jk-wait, you're only supposed to use one language in a synth?10:14
tgardnerits likely kind of like parallel programming languages, lots of choices and controversy10:14
bjfalmost every talk is different ways to make "noise" :-)10:15
bjfthe guy talking right now, draws a picture in a window, then starts it animating and the shape produces different sound and he is tweaking different params10:17
LaibschHi10:18
LaibschWill one of you guys finally act on bug 521967?  I don't see anything left to make it even easier for you.10:19
ubot3Malone bug 521967 in linux-backports-modules-2.6.32 "support for new atheros wifi chipset - AR2427/ath9k" [Medium,Triaged] https://launchpad.net/bugs/52196710:19
Laibschogasawara: will you be a taker?10:19
bjftgardner, i did meet one of the new hwe folks hugh hired, he's here as well10:19
tgardnerbjf, who dat?10:19
bjftgardner, Davd Henningsson10:20
tgardnerwe chatted up Lee last Friday. smart chap.10:20
bjfhe seemed like it when i interviewed him10:20
tgardnerLaibsch, we'll get to it when 2.6.34 is final and Luis does the backport.10:21
Laibschtgardner: when is that going to be?10:21
tgardnerbjf, Mathieu starts at UDS.10:21
* Laibsch feels like this has lingered WAY too long10:21
tgardnerLaibsch, patience lad. It'll get done sometime after 2.6.34 goes final.10:22
Laibschtgardner: I am usually patient, but you have to admit that patience was tested on this one.  Upstream provided the patch more than two months ago.10:23
Laibschagain, what kind of timeframe are you suggesting with 2.6.34?10:23
LaibschI don't follow kernel development everyday like you guys do10:24
tgardnerLaibsch, its hard to say when for sure. likely sometime in the next month.10:26
* Laibsch smiles10:26
LaibschIOW, could be this won't even hit *this* month?10:26
Laibschwait a minute10:26
tgardnerLaibsch, the Maverick kernel will likely appear in the archive in the next week or so. You could run that kernel with Lucid user space10:27
LaibschYou're saying it certainly won't hit this month (which has just started) and there is a certain chance it won't even hit in June10:27
LaibschOMG10:27
Laibschtgardner: I have patched my kernel for a few month now10:27
LaibschBut I feel that all the users of pinetrail netbooks are left out heavily in the cold10:28
Laibschwhen that isn't necessary since the patch is there and tested10:28
Laibschbut I don't want to waste your time further, I'm sure everybody is busy10:28
LaibschI know what to expect now, thank you for providing that information10:28
mdzcrimsun: I have a reliable setup for bug 532586 if you'd like to look at it with me10:29
ubot3Malone bug 532586 in pulseaudio "pa_stream_writable_size() failed: Connection terminated errors not caught by apport" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/53258610:29
bjftgardner, just finishing up an hour on sheet music authoring software targeted at orchestras11:24
tgardnerbjf, ooh! wish was there (!not)11:24
bjftgardner, it's actually quite impressive what is being done, however ... :-)11:25
tgardnerbjf, perhaps you'd rather dive into the intricacies of unaligned register access in the tg3 driver?11:26
kirklandmase_wk: hi there;  i'm more knowledgeable of the userspace side of KVM ... jjohansen (who isn't here right now) handles Ubuntu's kernel side of kvm11:46
=== oubiwann is now known as oubiwann_
=== oubiwann_ is now known as oubiwann
baptistemmhi ther13:52
baptistemme13:52
cndmanjo: do you have an NC10 lying among your test netbooks?14:40
manjocnd, are you still looking for an NC10 ? 14:59
cndmanjo: yes, do you have one?15:01
manjocnd, no I don't 15:01
cndok, nm then15:01
* cnd has to run to the store to get a usb key drive15:17
=== cnd is now known as cnd-afk
tgardnercnd-afk, please have a look at bug #574462. I might be related to your I/O performance initiative. If not, you'll at least have to get your hands dirty in the low level I/O subsystem.15:21
ubot3Malone bug 574462 in linux "udisks-probe-ata-smart causes HSM violations" [High,Confirmed] https://launchpad.net/bugs/57446215:21
cnd-afktgardner: ok, but IO stuff is getting pushed back for a bit as the wyse project ramps up15:22
cnd-afkhopefully I can take a look sometime this week though15:22
manjoJFo, are we doing regression review today ? 15:49
JFomanjo, not that i am aware of15:50
JFoit is a UK holiday and some of the others are travelling to some-hands15:50
JFoor whatever that is called15:50
JFoso probably not much point15:50
manjoah holiday today ... 15:50
manjocool15:50
manjopgraner, got 2 mts ? 15:53
=== cnd-afk is now known as cnd
pgranermanjo: sure16:14
manjoskype ? cell ? 16:16
manjopgraner, ^ ? 16:18
manjopgraner, nm.. updated you via email ... 16:23
JFoso why does the release/ on cdimage.ubuntu.com only shjow the DVD versions? is it only supposed to be those, or is there supposed to be a CD image as well?16:33
manjoand they are 4.1G .. wow16:37
ogasawaraJFo: "This directory contains only less-used images which are not mirrored widely. For the most frequently downloaded CD images, see releases.ubuntu.com. Please use a mirror if possible."16:38
JFohmmm16:38
JFoyeah, that is better. 16:39
JFothanks ogasawara :-D16:39
pgranermanjo: got it16:39
manjopgraner, ok16:39
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=== kamalm is now known as kamal
baptistemm_hello20:31
baptistemm_I'm coming to get some help about bluetooth, I'm managing the applications related to bluetooth and I have some bug reports where people reported their bluetooth adapter are no discovered 20:36
baptistemm_bug 416487 is an example of such bug21:02
ubot3Malone bug 416487 in bluez "Bluetooth Doesnt Work - Eee PC 1005HA-P" [Undecided,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/41648721:02
=== kamalmostafa is now known as kamal
kamalcnd_mini: ping22:12
jjohansenbaptistemm: I took a quick look at that bug and my guess would be there isn't a working driver for the bluetooth device22:23
* ogasawara waves to MathieuPoirier 22:44
jjohansenhey MathieuPoirier22:45
jjohansenwelcome22:45
ogasawaraMathieuPoirier: drowning in new starter tasks? :)22:45
ogasawarajjohansen: I wonder if his /nick wasn't registered so couldn't post to the channel22:49
pgranerogasawara: please /part #ubuntu-ops, we got told bad info no need to be in that channel23:20
pgranerogasawara: also let bjf know if you see him about23:20
ogasawarapgraner: yah, I dropped from that channel last week23:20
ogasawarapgraner: I'll let bjf know23:20
pgranerogasawara: yea testy folks in htere23:21
pgranerthere23:21

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