[02:10] <alextisserant> hello
[02:10] <alextisserant> does anyone know if progress has been made on bug 532733?
[02:10] <alextisserant> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/qemu-kvm/+bug/532733
[02:10] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 532733 in qemu-kvm (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 2 other projects) "apt/dpkg in qemu-system-arm hangs if a big task is installed (affects: 4) (dups: 1) (heat: 36)" [High,Incomplete] https://launchpad.net/bugs/532733
[02:10] <ubot4> Launchpad bug 532733 in qemu-kvm (Ubuntu Lucid) (and 2 other projects) "apt/dpkg in qemu-system-arm hangs if a big task is installed (affects: 4) (dups: 1) (heat: 36)" [High,Incomplete]
[15:37] <lool> ogra, NCommander: poke
[15:37] <lool> ogra, NCommander: Do you guys have any specs which are pending approval?
[15:38] <lool> NCommander: I'd like to discuss softboot loader (mukluk) with you
[15:38] <lool> NCommander: Does mukluk actually need *discussion*, or does it need implementation?
[15:38] <ogra> lool, i submitted two for me and one that persia didnt want to run the BOF for
[15:38] <lool> ogra: Could you list them here?
[15:38] <ogra> just digging
[15:38] <persia> mukluk mostly just needs implementation.  Not a lot to discuss.
[15:39] <ogra> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-arm/+spec/userspace-loop-mounting
[15:39]  * ogra looks for the panel one
[15:39] <lool> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-arm/+spec/userspace-loop-mounting 404s
[15:40] <lool> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-arm/+spec/arm-m-userspace-loop-mounting
[15:40] <ogra> https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-arm/+spec/arm-m-lightweight-panel-for-efl
[15:40] <lool> ogra: The spec doesn't say why you'd want to loop mount an image?
[15:40] <ogra> yeah, someone (i think asac) renamed it
[15:40] <asac> ogra: can you fill out summary? ;M)(
[15:41] <lool> arm-m-userspace-loop-mounting > I'd like this to be worded towards the use case we're trying to solve
[15:41] <ogra> lool, editing images you mean ? and running build tools as non-root ?
[15:41] <lool> arm-m-lightweight-panel-for-efl > sounds relatively good (except typos :-) but do we have a replacement software, do we intend to write it?
[15:41]  * ogra can rephrase it indeed
[15:41] <asac> lool: both are already in the summit system fwiw
[15:41] <ogra> lool, i suspect a bit of both
[15:42] <lool> ogra: It could be: "Building images as non-root" or "Remastering images"
[15:42] <ogra> i'D suppose to pick something existing and modify it
[15:42] <lool> asac: You mean scheduled?
[15:42] <lool> persia: Any spec / session from you I should be aware of?
[15:42] <ogra> since if we want to use the indicators we need applet support and most of the small panel imaplementations that exist dont have it
[15:42] <ogra> but thats for the discussion
[15:42] <lool> asac: Do you know of any other spec/session from the mobile team which needs attention?
[15:43] <asac> lool: NCommander's softbooloader spec
[15:43] <lool> asac: Ok, I pinged him earlier on this
[15:43] <lool> I dont think it needs to be scheduled for UDS
[15:43] <asac> lool: i wanted to approve it, but it just was gone from the url it previously had
[15:43] <ogra> right, there schouldnt be any others
[15:43] <asac> lool: yeah. we unscheduled it ... but he came back
[15:43] <lool> asac: Lets get this straight with NCommander
[15:43] <asac> and explicitly asked to have that session still ... i am indifferent
[15:43] <lool> I'm fine if this is targeted for maverick, but I want to understand the need for a time slot at UDS
[15:43] <asac> my argument was that there was enough discussoin and we should rather implement
[15:44] <lool> asac: +1
[15:44] <ogra> lool, i'D also happily run https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-arm/+spec/arm-m-soc-i.mx51 and https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-arm/+spec/arm-m-soc-omap
[15:44] <asac> but he said he wanted to solicit more input now that we have more professional attention on arm
[15:44] <asac> which is a valid argument imo
[15:44] <lool> ogra: What I'd love for arm-m-soc-i.mx51 and arm-m-soc-omap is if you could gather input from Freescale and TI
[15:44] <ogra> and as i sadi before, any other one i subscribed to
[15:44] <asac> ogra: those are vendor sessions
[15:44] <lool> ogra: Ideally, they'd run the session with what they want to achieve in maverick, or in the future, or give a status update on where things stand -- whatever
[15:44] <asac> both are in the process to appoint a lead for that esssion ... but definitly subscribe you
[15:44] <ogra> lool, though imx51 should probably be 53
[15:44] <asac> ogra: imx5x
[15:45] <asac> ;)
[15:45] <ogra> yeah !
[15:45] <ogra> ++
[15:45] <asac> ogra: lets not change it now, because fsl has that url to think about
[15:45] <ogra> ok
[15:45] <lool> asac: IMHO, softbootloader is a pre-production developers solution; not going to be deployed on production systems due to the boot time impact
[15:45] <asac> and then it would be gone (or are there automatic rediects)
[15:45] <asac> lool: right. it clearly falls in the developer (tools?) part
[15:45] <lool> asac: As such, I dont think it needs attention from another round of people; it should be one of these nice tools we use while we want to stay open in terms of boot options
[15:46] <lool> asac: Ack
[15:46] <asac> yeah. i think we are on the same page. lets make ncommander understand that its approved for maverick implementation, but that we probably dont want a session
[15:47] <ogra> lool, description changed (for the loop stuff)
[15:48]  * persia doesn't see why mukluk wouldn't be a production solution in the future: coreboot seems popular with many.  Mind you, mukluk is insufficiently mature to be used now.
[15:48] <ogra> persia, its slooow
[15:49] <ogra> imagine 10secs from u-boot plus 3 seconds for booting an initial kernel plus 5 seconds for second kernel and initramfs
[15:49] <persia> ogra: coreboot isn't.  The demo I heard about from a couple weeks ago wasn't.
[15:50] <ogra> persia, i was talking mukluk
[15:50] <persia> mukluk just isn't yet mature enough.
[15:50] <ogra> and its slow by design :)
[15:52] <lool> ogra: I updated the description again
[15:52] <ogra> thanks
[15:53] <lool> persia: One way we could have mukluk is as a fallback bootloader
[15:53] <lool> But let's walk before we run
[15:53] <ogra> heh
[15:54] <ogra> crawl rather :)
[15:54] <lool> ogra: Happy with the new description?
[15:54] <ogra> yup, fine
[15:54] <lool> ogra: I think I will rename the blueprint as well
[15:54] <ogra> fine too
[15:54] <lool> ogra: what about lightweight panel?
[15:54] <ogra> it was registered before we had ubuntu-arm or any naming scheme
[15:54] <lool> 16:41 < lool> arm-m-lightweight-panel-for-efl > sounds relatively good (except  typos :-) but do we have a replacement software, do we intend to  write it?
 lool, i suspect a bit of both
 i'D suppose to pick something existing and modify it
 since if we want to use the indicators we need applet support and most of the small panel imaplementations that exist dont have it
 but thats for the discussion
[15:56] <lool> ogra: Is it really ARM specific?
[15:56] <ogra> (from above)
[15:56] <lool> I'm fine discussing it in the ARM track, but I wonder if it's going to impact desktop or whether they have differing plans
[15:56] <ogra> lool, well, specific to efl using images with low RAM i'd say
[15:56] <lool> I'd hate ending up with one panel for ARM and one panel for rest or such
[15:57] <ogra> not so much for ARM as a hardware, but very much for the possible ARM hardware that might be supported in the future
[15:57] <ogra> and i doubt desktop has *any* plans in that direction
[15:57] <lool> ogra: It doens't sound like a too good idea to have multiple implementations of the panel; moving parts, multiple code bases to maintain, ...
[15:57] <persia> lool: certainly.  I'm not advocating mukluk is ready now, just that the concept shouldn't be rejected for production in a general way.
[15:57] <lool> ogra: So I think you should involve desktop and find a way which works for everybody
[15:58] <ogra> well, but you dont need the majority of things the current panel pulls into your memory
[15:58] <lool> New name https://blueprints.edge.launchpad.net/ubuntu-arm/+spec/arm-m-image-builds-without-root
[15:58] <ogra> at least on efl
[15:58] <lool> ogra: So if you dont need them with ARM, you dont need them for other hardware
[15:58] <ogra> right
[15:58] <ogra> but other hardware might have less speed/size constraints
[15:59] <lool> ogra: Could you make sure you discuss this with didrocks and the plans are agreed upon on the two teams (desktop and
[15:59] <lool> mobile)
[15:59] <ogra> asac was initially proposing to actually enhance the efl launcher
[15:59] <ogra> to be able to embed the bits and pieces we want
[15:59] <ogra> possibly thats a better idea, not sure
[15:59] <lool> I added didrocks as participation essential
[15:59] <ogra> ok
[16:00] <lool> ogra: You might want mterry?
[16:01] <lool> added him
[16:01] <sveinse> A little OT: Do you know if there's there an ongoing effort to make a new (upgraded) version of the beagle board?
[16:01] <persia> I can't imagine there isn't, but I'd recommend asking in #beagle
[16:01] <ogra> lool, ++
[16:01] <lool> sveinse: as in hardware?
[16:02] <lool> sveinse: Google Beagleboard XM
[16:02] <sveinse> lool, yes. Specifically one with SATA
[16:02] <sveinse> Thanks, I'll check it out
[16:02] <ogra> i dont think there are plans for SATA support
[16:03] <ogra> but there are several addon boards that might enable you to attach a self built SATA solution
[16:03] <ogra> prpplague might be someone who can point you to any
[16:03] <suihkulokki> omap has no sata so the only practical way for sata support would usb-sata bridge..
[16:03]  * prpplague looks in
[16:04] <lool> No SATA on OMAP3
[16:04] <XorA> prpplague: see I told you guys was asking for SATA :-)
[16:04] <sveinse> join #beagle
[16:04] <lool> sveinse: The SoC doesn't provide SATA; the only ARMv7 one I know of is the Dove one
[16:04] <prpplague> a standard PATA->SATA bridge can be added to the omap3 gpmc , problem is that the beagle doesn't bring it out
[16:06] <sveinse> Interesting though... Maybe TI has something like that in its pipe. The generic base board of my AM3517 eval kit (a Zoom2 kit) has a SATA connector. But for OMAP3 its NOOP :(
[16:16] <prpplague> sveinse: interesting, i'd like to see the schematic on tat
[16:16] <prpplague> that
[16:21] <sveinse> prpplague: It's just routed to some GPIO on the SoC.
[16:22] <sveinse> prpplague: This is the OEM mfg which makes the evalkit for TI: http://www.logicpd.com/products/development-kits/zoom-am3517-evm-development-kit
[16:22] <prpplague> sveinse: hmm, the AM3517 has Sata ?
[16:23] <sveinse> prpplague: No. It does not. It only routed on the common baseboard which they obviously share between a number of SoCs
[16:23] <sveinse> prpplague: I was speculating if newer cores (OMAP4 perhaps?) had SATA
[16:23] <kblin> hey folks
[16:23] <sveinse> prpplague: ..since they have added it to the board I mean
[16:24] <kblin> rootstock is failing for me on a current lucid system
[16:24] <prpplague> sveinse: oh so the base board has a sata connector but no sata support?
[16:24] <kblin> the error message is "/usr/bin/rootstock: 792: Bad substitution"
[16:24] <kblin> which seems a bit weird
[16:25] <sveinse> prpplague: yes. The SoC is on a daughter board (which they name SoM) and then you plug it into a base board. The pins connected to the SATA is simply routed to some GPIO pins on the SOM. No PHY or anything
[16:26] <kblin> is there any way of telling rootstock to not delete downloaded files?
[16:27] <prpplague> sveinse: ahh ok
[18:16] <abogani> Sorry for off-topic: Are there someone TI employee here?
[18:17] <ojn> abogani: you can find a bunch of TI folks at linux-omap
[18:17] <ojn> #linux-omap that is
[18:17] <vstehle> abogani: yep. May I help?
[18:17] <abogani> ojn: Thanks and sorry again :-)
[18:18] <abogani> vstehle:  May I disturb you for a simple question in private? (it is really off-topic here)
[18:19] <vstehle> abogani: Sure.
[18:33] <rcn-ee> kblin, that 792: is a bashism i introduced, fix is waiting for review: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~beagleboard-kernel/+junk/rootstock-bashism/revision/96
[18:37] <lool> NCommander: Hey you got our pings earlier?
[18:38] <lool> rcn-ee: ${KERNEL_IMG_REL%%_*} might be nicer (no fork)
[18:38] <lool> and isn't a bashism
[18:39] <lool> KERNEL_IMG_REL=foo_bar_bas
[18:39] <lool> echo ${KERNEL_IMG_REL%%_*}
[18:39] <lool> => foo
[18:39] <rcn-ee> cool, that's a lot nicer lool..
[18:43] <rcn-ee> yeah, that works sweet..  keeps learning new things..  lool, have you had any insights to the qemu lockup?
[18:48] <lool> rcn-ee: qemu lockup > I'm afraid not
[18:48] <lool> rcn-ee: I actually wonder whether anybody tried reproducing and then installing a bunch of dbgsym from apt and dpkg and getting a backtrace?
[18:48] <lool> there's also the possibility of offering a gdb server in qemu (-s flag I think)
[18:49] <rcn-ee> okay.. what's weird, randomly 1/50 I'll get past that lockup and as soon as apt-get is almost done configuring it'll segfault...
[18:49] <lool> rcn-ee: I wonder whether it could be related to the memory in use
[18:50] <lool> rcn-ee: One thing to try would be adding swap
[18:51] <rcn-ee> yeap, tried both those.. added more swap, having qemu access a spare fast hardrive instead of image.. i was playing around with the apt-dbsym's jsut not sure how to change the apt-get call to work under gdb..
[18:51] <lool> rcn-ee: You dont need to change it
[18:51] <lool> rcn-ee: just attach to the hung process
[18:51] <lool> gdb /usr/bin/apt-get and then "attach 1234" where 1234 is the pid
[18:52] <lool> or hack rootstock to apt-get install the -dbgsym first, and run gdb apt-get -c 'set args install xyz; run'
[18:54] <rcn-ee> okay, that's what it is... "-c <stuff>; run"  I'll fire up another run.. (i have quick hack to get the dbsym's installed first already)
[18:57] <lool> rcn-ee: Sorry, it's -x with an input file, no -c (command) in gdb
[18:57] <lool> rcn-ee: Or --args
[18:58]  * lool disappears
[18:58] <rcn-ee> I'm going to have to hold up anyways.. the ddebs's i used previously have disappeared off ddebs.ubuntu.com...
[18:58] <rcn-ee> (older versions exist)
[18:58] <NCommander> lool: pings recieved w.r.t. to ARM softbootloader
[19:10] <lool> NCommander: Ok, so do you agree it doens't need discussion at UDS?
[19:10] <lool> NCommander: But just implementation in maverick?
[19:10] <lool> rcn-ee: Yes, ddebs are large, we only keep the last one
[19:11] <NCommander> lool: I suspose. I think there are still points that could be discussed such as making it the default boot mechanism, etc.
[19:11] <rcn-ee> yeah: http://ddebs.ubuntu.com/pool/main/a/apt/ except it only has karmic's... lucid's is 0.7.25.3 (which was there a week ago.) .;)
[19:12] <NCommander> lool: BTW, be expecting another spec from me on improved ARM subarch detection so its something a bit less specific than the hardware field; I'll still drafted it however
[19:16] <rcn-ee> NCommander, btw any chance can we get an override, (for external kernels that share the same hardware id)?
[19:17] <NCommander> rcn-ee: that's what we need to fix
[19:17] <rcn-ee> ahh. cool..
[19:17] <NCommander> rcn-ee: which board is this for?
[19:17] <NCommander> (and for lucid or maverick?)
[19:17] <rcn-ee> pretty much any ti board i work on.. (specificly the beagle and beagle xm)
[19:18] <NCommander> rcn-ee: I thought beagle XM won't boot a standard OMAP3 kernel (yet)
[19:18] <NCommander> rcn-ee: can I PM you?
[19:19] <rcn-ee> sure no problem... yeap it doesn't boot my or ubuntu's kernel but it does boot on angstrom psp.. although the ram settings are still iffy last i talked to jason and gerald...
[19:32] <ogra> rcn-ee, did you forget to push your changed to the branch ?
[19:32]  * ogra doesnt see a change
[19:32] <ogra> *changes
[19:33] <rcn-ee> ogra, launchpad is error-ring out all morning today for me.. ;) (it's not refreshing any of my branches on the http interface)
[19:34] <ogra> ah, k
[19:34] <ogra> there was an update today and it was r/o for quite a while
[19:34] <ogra> (lp update)
[19:35] <rcn-ee> yeap... but i'll try pushing that last diff (lool's version) i emailed you to a branch, or you could apply it as is.. (for an sru do you need a bug report?)
[19:36] <ogra> bug would be helpful but i can also file it myself
[19:37] <ogra> oh, i missed that there was an attachmendt in the mail, sorry
[19:39] <rcn-ee> laughs... that's what happens when i quickly top post'd... ;)  heads back to work.
[20:02] <lool> NCommander: Please register the spec ASAP then