=== nobawk|away is now known as nobawk
LaserJockwhen's UDS?01:16
mathiazLaserJock: next week01:17
LaserJockmathiaz: ah, thanks01:18
mathiazLaserJock: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-M01:19
imbrandonLaserJock: !!01:31
crimsunimbrandon: got a sec for query?01:31
imbrandoncrimsun: sure01:31
LaserJockimbrandon: dude!!!01:32
LaserJockyou're alive! ;-)01:32
imbrandonheh yea, been back in the swing for a bit now01:32
ajmitchhi LaserJock01:33
LaserJockwhere's bddebian, that'd be about right01:33
ajmitchgetting all the old people in one place?01:34
* LaserJock pops his teeth out to scare the little kids01:35
imbrandoni havent seen bddebian in quite a while01:36
imbrandonLaserJock: tried lucid yet ?01:37
LaserJockimbrandon: yeah, been running it since Alpha 2 or so01:37
imbrandonseen ya pop by my blog a while back, i was like, man where is he01:38
LaserJockheck, I even threw some code in to UNE01:39
imbrandonive resigned myself to become a DD this summer, even if it kills me01:40
imbrandoni've put it off far too long01:40
LaserJockI've been busy putting my PhD to use01:40
LaserJockI get to play rocket scientist these days01:40
imbrandonget a nice gig somewhere? last i talked to you  , you were still in school01:40
LaserJockyeah, I'm in Boston now, of all places01:41
imbrandonahh nice, lol, i interview with a company in vegas last week, not sure i wanna move back to NV though01:41
LaserJockI'm a contractor with the Air Force01:42
imbrandonoh sweet01:42
LaserJockin the "space" part01:42
LaserJockso it's kinda weird01:42
LaserJockI went from nanotechnology to space01:42
imbrandonyea but space is fun ( imho )01:42
LaserJockI had 2 job offers, on in KS and one in Boston01:43
imbrandonif i had a chance to do it all over i would probably do something involving commercial space01:43
LaserJockI would like to get out Kansas way or mid west or something01:43
imbrandonKS really ? wth is out here in KS01:43
LaserJockwell, you do have a couple universities out there01:43
imbrandoni like it here, but everything is so spread out01:43
LaserJockthe one I was looking at was Kansas State, I'd like to be closer to Kansas City though01:44
imbrandonlol tell me about it, i got one nephew at Missouri Uni and one at Kansas Uni, talk about rivalry01:44
LaserJockyeah, well, here in New England you can't get any elbow room at all01:44
imbrandonk state has some campusus here01:44
LaserJockit is kinda cool having MIT and Harvard, etc. here01:45
imbrandonand ku has all the med scholl campuses here, and then there us umkc ( uni missouri kc branch )01:45
imbrandonand like a metric ton of community coll01:46
imbrandoni think there is something like 15 in the area01:46
LaserJockthey have community colleges like starbucks here01:46
LaserJockyeah? that's quite a few01:46
LaserJockI live out in the 'burbs01:47
imbrandonmost of them are affiliated with jccc ( johnson count community college ) somehow or another, johnson county is the Ks part of KC, jackson co being the Mo side01:48
LaserJockI think I pass like at least 7 unis that I know of just to get in to downtown Boston01:48
imbrandonlol nice01:48
LaserJockbut I swear they have to compensate for all the "brain power" here01:49
imbrandoni lived up in providence for a short time arround ~2001, worked in boston, was fun, but i had to get out, tooooooo cold01:49
LaserJocksome people are quite bright, some are ... not so much01:49
LaserJockthey don't know how to drive, that's for sure01:50
imbrandonhahahah yea, i dident bother driving when i was there, t train all the way baby ;)01:50
LaserJockyeah, doing a train is a new thing for me01:51
imbrandonthats one thing i love about the coasts , useable mass transit01:51
imbrandonsucks here01:51
* persia remembers old Boston statistics: 52 colleges/universities, with ~3% of the population being a freshman each year.01:51
imbrandoni absolutely hate to drive01:51
imbrandonunless its for a joyride on my motorcycle01:52
LaserJockpersia: yeah, and that's 3% of a rather big number, IMO01:52
LaserJocknot so much for you I suppose ;-)01:52
persia~7M or so.01:52
LaserJockit's beautiful here, I gotta give them that01:53
LaserJockif it weren't for all the people it'd be a pretty darn good place to live ;-)01:54
imbrandonyea it seemed really nice, form what i saw of it, i actualy wouldent even call what i did "live" there, was more like an extended stay ( was there just under 3 months )01:54
imbrandonjust tooo damn cold lol01:54
LaserJockI love the winter here01:56
LaserJockit's a bit chilly at times (apparently this winter was real mild) but all the snow is great01:56
imbrandonheh i'm a fun in the sun guy, i'd rather it be 98% humid and 104F every day than drop below ~45F ever01:57
imbrandonyea i need to be in southern CA or NV or AZ01:57
LaserJockgimme -20F over 98% humidity and > 80F any day01:57
LaserJockas long as cars still work I'm all good01:58
LaserJockyou can always put more on, you can only take so much off :-)01:58
LaserJockand computers make great little heaters01:59
LaserJockthat's my theory anyway01:59
LaserJockimbrandon: so what have you been working on with Ubuntu?02:04
imbrandonhehe one sec got a semi important /query going , gimme ~2 min02:07
imbrandonwell not a ton yet, i got "back" late in the cycle, so moslty so far been sponsoring others last minute fixes for lucid02:11
imbrandonand catching back up on policys02:11
imbrandontouched a few backports and been working today to bring the ubuntuone* stack to debian proper02:11
LaserJockworking mostly in MOTU or Kubuntu or?02:11
imbrandonmostly MOTU and core, not a lot K* yet this time02:12
imbrandonwell other than general testing02:12
imbrandoni think i have resigned to use the gnome desktop with a few kde and qt apps02:13
LaserJockholy cow!02:13
LaserJockyou've gone to the dark side02:13
imbrandoni still have KDE4 Lucid on one of my desktops , but i just cant bring my self to the KDE way with kde402:13
imbrandondesktopwise anyhow02:14
imbrandonthe "gadgets" get on my nerves, if i could make it feel like 3 or a more traditional desktop i'd be more at home02:14
imbrandonbut some of the functionality like KIO-slaves are great, cant give those up :)02:15
LaserJockthe plasmoids are kinda annoying02:15
LaserJocklike I like the functionality of some of them02:15
LaserJockbut the appearing/disappearing UI controls get on my nerves02:16
imbrandonyou know if one had the time and manpower ( guess that means $$ ) a new deesktop based on qt/kde libs but made to look/function like gnome 2.X would be awesom02:16
imbrandonthe backend for kde is soooooooo much better and easier to work with, but the kde4.x implmentation of it i just cant grok02:16
LaserJockmhm, it's weird how that works02:17
imbrandonsoo i'm kinda like the man in the middle :)02:17
LaserJockwell, that's not so bad of a place to be necessarily02:18
imbrandonatleaste i can make sure kde apps play nice on other desktops02:18
imbrandonand i play arround with kde native on OSX still alot02:18
imbrandonthats alot of fun02:18
LaserJockdoes RangerRick still do that?02:19
LaserJockI think that was his nick02:19
imbrandoni've been meaning to try the same thing on windows ( kde native ) but its really low on my TODO02:19
imbrandonyea RangerRick is still the major driving force behind it and the fink port02:19
imbrandonbut its picked up quite a few others too02:19
imbrandonits really in a "maintance" mode now as 99.9% of the needed patches for kde native on osx have ben applied upstream, so its just a mater of checkout;./configure;make;make install02:20
ajmitch& wait a few hours02:21
imbrandonfor _most_ of the stuff02:21
imbrandonlol yea02:21
imbrandonon my mac mini it take about 3 hours for the base system to compile, but the mini is a intel core solo 1.83ghz with 1gb ram02:22
imbrandonso its not a beast :)02:22
LaserJockgosh, I remember doing that in Gentoo02:22
LaserJockseemed like every time I got done they'd push a new KDE version02:22
imbrandonhahaha emerge world02:22
imbrandon*wait 3 days*02:22
LaserJockI just started grad school02:23
imbrandonohhh a login screen02:23
LaserJockand my advisor would come in and ask about something02:23
LaserJockand I'd need some package so I'd have to wait for my emerge to finish02:23
LaserJockthat's actually the primary reason I ended up with Ubuntu02:23
imbrandonhehe i rember you telling me that way back when02:24
ajmitchLaserJock: I used to have a script to rebuilt kdelibs/base from cvs each night02:24
LaserJockand it'd get done each night?02:24
imbrandonjust base and libs isnt toooooooo much02:24
ajmitchthis was maybe 9 years ago :)02:24
imbrandononly takes about ~30-40 min now iirc on a decent build box02:25
LaserJockI was too impatient02:25
LaserJockI don't think I every installed from a stage1 tarball02:25
imbrandoni'd hate to work on someonthing like oo.o upstream02:25
imbrandonthat has got to be a nightmare02:26
LaserJockoh man02:26
LaserJockfor Lucid they were rebuilding for the branding changes02:26
LaserJockone stupid graphic and they had to rebuild the whole thing :(02:26
imbrandonwow, broken design02:26
LaserJockwell, who knew they'd need to change it :p02:26
ajmitchthere's a whole day gone02:27
LaserJockoracle really could use a better logo though, yuck02:27
imbrandonyea, honestly i think we should quarenten oo.o to its own buildd02:27
imbrandoni ahvent looked at it02:27
imbrandonstill havent wrapped my head arround them buying sun02:28
imbrandoni was wondering the other day what that ment for stuff like opensolaris and ian murdoch and stuff02:28
LaserJockseems like it's not the end of the world, but it's not just same old thing either02:29
LaserJockI'd guess it'll take 'em a while to shake things out02:30
imbrandonohhh syncing works now ... woot02:30
LaserJockI know somebody here who works for Sun here in Boston, they're working on a 2nd career just in case02:30
imbrandonajmitch: they must have fixed the backend, syncing is actualy working on my sqeeze box02:30
imbrandonLaserJock: i would imagine02:30
ajmitchimbrandon: I'd hope so, it's really not that different from lucid :)02:31
LaserJockit's things like that that make me think perhaps being a poor chemist isn't so bad after all02:31
imbrandonheheh yea but it was broke for hours today02:31
imbrandonLaserJock: hehehe02:31
LaserJockI saw Canonical was hiring a bug person for here in Lexington02:32
LaserJockI dive by there on my way to work every day02:32
LaserJockoh, sorta02:32
imbrandonLaserJock: so do you get to work with any of the current space stuff ? a guy in my Warcraft guild ( shhhhhhh ) works for NASA in the control center room thingie, kinda cool02:32
LaserJockwell, I can't tell you exactly what I work on of course (sucks) but it's space, DoD, etc.02:33
imbrandonheheh understood02:33
imbrandonyea he can never say exactly either, but he sends pics once in a while of the stuff he can02:34
imbrandonlemme see if i can dig one up ...02:34
LaserJockI work on space vehicles though, or rather the basic chemistry aspect02:34
LaserJockno engineering or anything02:34
LaserJockBattlespace vehicles, what a nerdy name02:35
* Yagisan reads space based weapons delivery platforms instead of space vehicles02:35
ajmitchYagisan: that's the part he can't tell you about :)02:36
LaserJockwell, it ain't NASA02:36
LaserJockbut it's nifty, space is quite different for us chemists02:37
YagisanI knew it - he's working on what will eventually become skynet02:37
LaserJockusually we use a space-like environment (vacuum) to simulate stuff on earth02:37
LaserJockbut now we have a similar environment, but the chemistry is completely different02:38
imbrandonLaserJock: ahh i found the last one, i have some more somwhere http://i42.tinypic.com/oizreq.jpg02:38
LaserJockever nerdy kids dream02:39
imbrandonwe give him hell on vent all the time about going to mars and other stupid stuff02:39
LaserJockman, I used to go through the pre-launch flight procedures in my living room in a tipped over recliner02:39
LaserJocka loooong time ago02:40
imbrandonhe calls the place he works "MCC" no idea what it means though02:40
LaserJockmission control center02:40
imbrandonlol, that would be it , hahaha02:40
ajmitchnothing important or anything02:40
ajmitchbut the question to ask - does he run ubuntu at work?02:40
imbrandonlol no, i was only one of two in my guild that ran linux of any kind02:41
Yagisanthose pics look similar to debian02:41
LaserJockdude, the physicists across the hall do02:41
imbrandonactualy at work they might run some linux, i'll have to ask02:41
LaserJockI was in their lab getting a tour and I saw it up on a giant TV screen02:41
imbrandonneer occured to me to ask actualy , lol02:41
ajmitchLaserJock: that's good :)02:41
LaserJockI was like "hmm, that brown looks a little familiar"02:41
LaserJocknow what am I going to do?02:42
LaserJockpurple everywhere, so confusing ;-)02:42
* imbrandon uses a "blue" theme02:42
=== nobawk is now known as nobawk|away
* Yagisan uses a theme known as maximised xterms02:43
Yagisanisn't that the point of a gui - to run many more xterms ?02:44
imbrandonlol, yea i dunno why i bother, 99% of the time i live in  a maximied term with tons of screen sessions02:44
* ajmitch doesn't usually maximise stuff, except for maybe on the laptop02:44
imbrandonhonestly i think i'd be ok if chrome worked without X via framebuffer or someting and the rest justa  term02:45
LaserJockI just have a netbook these days02:45
ajmitcha couple of 22" LCDs at work, having a terminal maximised would be overkill02:45
YagisanI've got Kubuntu on the eeepc, which is nice, Xubuntu on this box, but they only ever seem to run xterm, xchat, and vlc/mplayer02:45
LaserJockso I don't see much theming02:45
YagisanLaserJock, which one ? I've been using the eeepc 1000h as my main system for about a year now02:46
LaserJockI have an Acer Aspire One02:46
LaserJockpicked it up around Thanksgiving02:46
Yagisanalthough I found the "netbook" spins to be unusable for myself02:46
imbrandonthe main box i've been using the last couple months is an _old_ 1.5ghz celeron with a gig of ram and an IDE 5400 rpm hdd that wont boot off of USB02:46
Yagisanmine was a retrenchment gift to myself02:46
LaserJockuh, last November (to be more international)02:46
imbrandonmakes for a good beater laptop though02:46
LaserJockI love UNE02:46
LaserJockit works really well with how I use a computer02:47
LaserJock1 desktop, 1 app/window at a time02:47
LaserJockI've been simplifying my computing experience :-)02:47
Yagisanah - yeah - I have multiple up and running02:47
LaserJockbut I'm not a professional02:47
* ajmitch hasn't been simplifying very well02:47
imbrandonyea i have had a few of the 10.1 in dell mini's and love em, just never seem to keep em long renenough02:47
* Yagisan sobs no one wants to hire me02:48
imbrandonbut they are tiny, but just big enough to type comfy on02:48
LaserJockmy wife's laptop died suddenly (started smoking), I gave her mine and went to Walmart and got the cheapest thing they had02:48
LaserJockturns out I really like the netboook thing02:48
LaserJockI wish I had a server though02:49
Yagisanthe battery life is nice - wish the gma950 had more grunt02:49
imbrandonLaserJock: need access to one ? i got a linode i can give ya an account on if ya need02:49
imbrandonits not beefy but should be ok for just about anything ya need02:50
Yagisanwhat sort of server LaserJock ?02:50
LaserJockwell, the two things that I don't get from a netbook are 24x7 connectivity (IRC for instance) and the ability to build packages reasonably02:50
* Yagisan has a karmic box here that exists to run xchat, dhcp, bind, samba and lots and lots of kvm sessions02:50
LaserJockI don't know that I'm in desperate need at this point, but it's the one thing I miss having only 2 laptops02:51
* ajmitch builds packages on the laptop, but irssi runs on a linode02:52
LaserJocknone of my desktop machines made the move to Boston02:52
imbrandonyea i use my linode for basic webserver for things i dont host on google app engine , and irssi02:52
Yagisanyou can pick up a cheap multicore white-box pc - add a ups, configure mdadm for raid or lvm mirroring, and suddenly, mini-server02:52
imbrandondunno if it would be that good to build packages though02:52
* Yagisan is doing the lvm setup himself02:52
Yagisangot a awesome phenom II x3 chip - 4th core unlocked stable :D02:53
Yagisanvery happy about that02:53
imbrandoneww amd, i mean gl with that ;)02:53
imbrandonlol j/.k02:53
Yagisanit was best price/performance02:54
jdongimbrandon: lol I had to deal with an AMD box the other day not booting Linux to initramfs.02:54
jdongnice looking panics02:54
* Yagisan isn't a fanboy - i want the best I can get for my limited $$$02:54
Yagisanremember cyrix ?02:54
jdongimbrandon: funniest was the stack trace went off the screen02:54
YagisanI still have my 6x86 cyrix chip here02:54
Yagisanthat was my first server02:54
jdongimbrandon: and AMD decides that VESA vga=xxx modes are "deprecated" for their IGP's :)02:54
imbrandoni rember the almost x86 chips that overheated and gave me tons of headaches02:54
Yagisanglorified 486 that was02:54
imbrandonYagisan: i agree as far as proformace for $$ but i factor in one more thing, headache, and intel almost always seems to win02:56
jdongimbrandon: yes and it's performance for the $$, never performance per $$02:56
imbrandoni ran amd chips for years and cyrix before that even though they had so many incompatibilties , but in the end its worth having the intel for the leaste amount of headaches02:56
jdongthey're not done with being incompatible yet02:57
imbrandoni mean hell the i3 dual cores are only like $56 bux right now or something ;)02:57
jdongimbrandon: yes but the mobo costs a lot02:58
YagisanI can't say I've had compatibility issues in the last 15 years I've been building boxes02:58
jdongimbrandon: I've got a friend who assembles entire AMD systems, ready to boot, sub-$30002:58
jdongimbrandon: and that's something that's impossible to do with Intel hardware02:58
imbrandonwow , i woudlent even consider that02:58
jdongso I'll give AMD that.02:58
jdongbut personally I'd rather get up to the $500 mark and build a decent Intel box02:58
Yagisanbut that's not to say some manufacturers didn't over-promise on their hardware (cyrix - I'm looking at you)02:58
jdongYagisan: I just had my latest set of AMD headaches a month ago. CLFLUSH gives invalid opcode on entirely valid incantations...02:59
jdongYagisan: which yields FreeBSD Xen guests panicking on boot whenever they'd rotate to AMD hardware02:59
Yagisanjdong, which cpu ?02:59
jdongYagisan: Opteron quad 2.4GHz02:59
jdong2xxx series?02:59
Yagisanintel has a sweet microcode update system that amd lacks02:59
YagisanI got burned with a first gen amd64 box (like those opertrons you mention)03:00
Yagisanworks fine with 32bit virtual guests, but can't do 64bit03:00
imbrandonyea all in all AMD's arent terrible, and i ran quite a few of them over the years, i just feel like the old man that buys the caddy because the caddy works and the man will come fix it if it dosent type mentality anymore03:00
* ajmitch has an amd chip at home03:01
jdongno they've got okay chips, but Intel never ceases to amaze me with their advances.03:01
imbrandonthey do have their place, but with intel i dont have to worry if when i boot/compile something if its the cpu's fault or the code03:01
jdonglol a joke from a performance engineering course last term03:01
jdongthey switched the cluster to Nehalem cores03:01
YagisanI have 3 intel systems here, and 3 amd systems - the microcode updates on the intels are the main advantage i see03:02
jdongand their slow vs fast code examples ended up running at the same speeds03:02
jdongit was a parallel workload cache line sharing contention "example"03:02
Yagisanall intel are 32bit chips ...03:02
jdongbut silly Nehalem was smart enough to do the necessary reordering in hardware.03:02
ajmitchmodel name      : Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU     E7400  @ 2.80GHz03:02
ajmitchthat one *without* virtualisation stuff, afaik03:03
ajmitchso annoying03:03
imbrandoni cant wait to get my grubby fingers on a dual quad i7 setup , hopefully by the end of the summer, packed into a 27inch imac03:03
jdongYagisan: I see some *major* performance differences between Intel and AMD hardware when running "real world" (read: poorly written) code03:03
ajmitchlaptop is T9600, virtualbox is useful here :)03:03
jdongYagisan: primarily code that's poorly written because of crappy memory access patterns, Intel blows right through them03:03
Yagisanjdong, how old is this code ? like Win NT that won't even start on a pentium 4 or later bad ?03:04
jdongYagisan: not old code, new code but just poorly written real world code.03:04
jdongYagisan: e.g. try running comething complex in python or multicore computational code written by a code monkey.03:04
jdongYagisan: stuff that's not ffmpeg or fftw which have been optimized by real performance engineers (tm) to be processor-friendly03:05
* Yagisan puts away the x264 example he had ...03:05
jdongYagisan: for code like that, you'll find that Intels tend to deal with the code and run it a lot faster than AMD cores.03:05
YagisanI find the two companies plat leapfrog - at any one time one of them is the best - then we get a new chip03:06
imbrandonnot really, marketring makes it seem that way, but intel is RARELY ever on the bottom half03:06
Yagisanof course - when I'm spending my money - I'm wanting the best overall performance I can03:06
* Yagisan did at one stage flog these systems off to customers - I did see this for myself03:07
imbrandonthe last time i rember intel being on the bottom half of the leapfrog was the frist 4 to 6 months the x86_64 first gen chips hit the market03:07
=== nobawk|away is now known as nobawk
jdongYagisan: except AMD isn't leapfrogging on the CPU front anymore, they're just putting better GPU's on die and offering it at a cheaper price.03:07
jdongYagisan: ever since Intel came out with the Core 2 architecture AMD has lost the performance, performance-per-dollar and performance-per-watt game03:08
jdongthey've managed to keep alive with "minimal dollar to reach some performance level"03:08
Yagisanthey are competitive in overall system performance03:09
Yagisanbesides - whoever burns the smallest hole in my wallet for what I want to do is clearly the leader for me03:09
lifelessso, atom then ? :)03:09
jdonglifeless: hahahaha minimal dollar to put something that plausibly runs x86 on a die.03:10
Yagisanwell - that is my day to day pc actually03:10
imbrandonYagisan: heh thats the same thing ppl say about apple being "expensive" because they dontr have a $300 machine, but if you take their $1100 laptop and go part for part with dell its virtually the same price ;)03:10
Yagisanbut dell is expensive ...03:11
jdongimbrandon: yeah the counterargument you usually get is there's no motivation for the Dell owner to go part for part.03:11
imbrandonbut you dont hear that mostly, you hear apple is ;)03:11
jdongimbrandon: e.g. I'm sure Grandma is fine with an Atom once we get rid of OpenOffice and Firefox ;-)03:11
* Yagisan wanted a mac when they used powerpc chips - because I wanted a big-endian dev box03:11
imbrandonjdong: lol i konw, but it irks me when ppl use hat arguement, its like if you dont like apple for whatever reason cool, but umm  prices is moot03:12
Yagisanhey - OO.o and firefox work well on my atom - perhaps would work better with atom tuning (small chace etc)03:12
jdongimbrandon: oh likewise. Not to mention it doens't factor in the cost of the attention to detail with the hardware.03:12
Yagisangah - I can't type today03:12
jdongimbrandon: I mean I'm sure I can make an argument of why my $30,000 car is superior to the BMW 7-series too based on spec sheet :)03:12
imbrandonok i got to get some food in me, back in ~10-15 min03:13
Yagisanbeing married has caused me to understand what is truly important in a pc now - and it's not cpu speed03:14
Yagisanit's how noisy it is - because if it sounds like all I need to do is strap on some wings for it to take off - the wife will turn it off03:15
* Yagisan wanders off to watch the bourne identity03:21
arandHmm, looking at plymouth, lucid, if I simply do "apt-get source && dch -i && debuild -S && debdiff" the diff comes out as huge. How can I work around this?03:25
arandhttp://pastebin.com/vaUyFkcX   the diff is 10883 lines!  my only change was the changelog!03:28
imbrandonarand: it diffs against the orig, sooo there must be changes without patches in plymouth03:38
imbrandonis my guess03:38
imbrandonarand: yup, look at plymouth-0.8.2/debian/patches/debian-changes03:39
arandimbrandon: My aim is to get a neat debdiff.. is there some special fu that would allow me to do this?03:39
imbrandonfilter the thing you dont want03:40
arandimbrandon: Thanks! Yet one of those things I had no idea existed :)03:57
=== Lutin is now known as Guest40878
=== rgreening__ is now known as rgreening
carneadeshi, i'm a little confused. I specify default-jre as a dependency in my deb, but when i attempt to install it on a java-less machine it says it can't because default-jre is a dependency and not installed. I then have to run apt-get -f to make it install default-jre. Why isn't the package manager installing default-jre itself?06:22
slytherincarneades: How did you try to install your package?06:24
RAOFcarneades: Because dpkg only enforces the dependencies, there's a lot of the package management that it doesn't do - such as how to get other packages.  apt knows all that extra stuff.06:24
carneadesi used dpkg -i06:25
slytherinIdeally you should use gdebi when installing single package. It will fetch and install necessary dependencies.06:25
carneadesoh i see06:25
carneadesi'll give that a whirl06:25
carneadeswhile i'm at it, i'm confused as to whether i should specify default-jre or java5-runtime, or openjdk* as the dependency06:25
carneadesin 9.10 this is more of an issue because there is sun java and openjdk, in 10.04 things are simpler in terms of openjdk being the only big option, but way more complicated in terms of package layout06:26
slytherincarneades: default-jre is just a meta package that points to default runtime for that architecture (OpenJDK for all arch since karmic). java5-runtime is a virtual packages. Almost all JREs provide it (openjdk, gij, sun etc).06:27
carneadesso i should specify java5-runtime if i don't care which they're using?06:28
slytherincarneades: An OR dependency 'default-jre | java5-runtime' is more appropriate.06:29
carneadesoh interesting, why is that?06:29
imbrandonbecause i may have java6 installed ;)06:30
imbrandonand that would be my default, rather than pulling in 5 unnneededly06:30
carneadesohh i see06:30
slytherincarneades: That means 'we prefer default jre as dependency or any other package that provides java5-runtime'.06:30
carneadesokay thank you all for your help06:31
slytherinSo user will be able to use the package with Sun JRE. Otherwise your package woould have forced the install of default-jre.06:31
carneadesright that's exactly what i want, not to pull in a redundant jre for no reason06:32
carneadesbut now in 10.04 there's no way sun can even get in the package system right? it's not in the ubuntu repositories and sun doesn't provide a debian package either.06:33
carneadesoh wait actually it's in a partner repository i think06:33
slytherinyou answered yourself. :-)06:34
StevenK*the* partner repo, actually06:34
carneadesfantastic i implemented your suggestions and it worked great06:40
bilalakhtarhyperair: Thanks for the advocate.06:51
hyperairbilalakhtar: np =)06:51
bilalakhtarhyperair: now searching for the second person06:52
bilalakhtarCan anyone please review my package? hyperair has already advocated it. its here http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/gnome-media-player06:53
bilalakhtarthe package is for maverick, not lucid06:54
dholbachgood morning07:24
bilalakhtarCan anyone please review my package? hyperair has already advocated it. its here http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/gnome-media-player ? The package is for maverick07:35
* hyperair mumbles something along the lines of stop pinging me please07:36
mok0Hm, gmail seems to be down07:36
mok0Can anyone here log on?07:37
StevenKhttp://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/gmail.com ? :-)07:37
hyperairlooks available for me07:37
hyperairis google chromium kicking shit in anyone else's face?07:38
hyperairit keeps hanging on google results pages >_>07:38
hyperairhmm now it stopped07:39
dholbachhyperair: you have a vocabulary!07:39
hyperairdholbach: sure i do.07:39
mok0hyperair: is your account https: enabled?07:39
* hyperair hides thesaurus07:39
dholbachyeah, quite a vocabulary07:39
hyperairmok0: yes it is.07:39
hyperairdholbach: ^_^07:39
mok0When I click "Sign on" I get a 40407:39
hyperairmok0: don't all accounts use https by default?07:40
mok0hyperair: it's something you choose in options07:40
hyperairit auto-logins-and-redirects for me..07:40
hyperairuse imap!07:40
hyperairso, i googled for "chromium hanging" and got something like "Alibaba.com provides chromium hanging, check chromium hanging products detail:"07:41
mok0"The webpage at https://www.google.com/accounts/Login might be temporarily down or it may have moved permanently to a new web address."07:41
mok0I doubt the latter is the case :-)07:42
hyperairno, it works fine for me07:42
hyperairi clicked on the link07:42
mok0Hm, I'll just have to wait07:42
hyperairor use imap ;-)07:43
mok0hyperair: I am :-)07:44
hyperairmok0: then why would you need the web interface?07:44
mok0hyperair: But I needed to add an event to my calendar07:44
hyperairi see.07:45
* hyperair uses rainlendar07:45
* mok0 googles for rainlendar.... oh07:45
hyperairtogether with the widget layer it's awesome =p07:45
slytherinmok0: doesn't your mail calendar support google calendar07:45
bilalakhtarmok0: Are you a motu?07:45
mok0bilalakhtar: yes07:45
hyperairoho predatorial sponsoree attacks07:46
bilalakhtarmok0: CAn you please review my package? hyperair has already advocated it. http://revu.ubuntuwire.com/p/gnome-media-player07:46
bilalakhtarhyperair: lol07:46
bilalakhtarhyperair: after all, this channel is meant for that. for something else,07:47
ubottu#ubuntu is the Ubuntu support channel, for all Ubuntu-related support questions. Please use #ubuntu-offtopic for other topics. Thanks!07:47
slytherinbilalakhtar: Don't be impatient. It is too early for maverick development. I am sure most people do not even have chroot for maverick.07:47
bilalakhtarslytherin: k07:47
* hyperair had to create a maverick chroot myself07:47
mok0bilalakhtar: I'll review it later today. Busy right now07:47
bilalakhtarmok0: Fine, leave it. I will search for a reviewer some weeks later07:48
mok0bilalakhtar: huh?07:48
slytherinbilalakhtar: Also at this point (just 5 days since release) SRU has higher priority than new packages.07:48
bilalakhtarslytherin: sru?07:48
mok0stable release updates07:49
slytherinbilalakhtar: Stable Release Updates07:49
slytherinbug fixes for lucid07:49
mok0slytherin: heh07:49
bilalakhtarubottu told me07:49
hyperair!sru | bilalakhtar07:49
ubottubilalakhtar: Stable Release Update information is at http://wiki.ubuntu.com/StableReleaseUpdates07:49
hyperairoh lol07:49
hyperaircan never beat a bot at speed >_>07:49
bilalakhtarhyperair: I always !msgthebot whenever I see an abbreviation I don't know07:50
hyperaircool =)07:50
bilalakhtarthanks, people, shall leave07:50
* hyperair too07:51
bilalakhtarjono: When will the new Ubuntu website come up?08:06
jonohey bilalakhtar08:07
jonobilalakhtar, not sure when it is planned08:07
bilalakhtarjono: Whenever iit does, it will come, right? since the current website does not represent the new brand08:08
jonobilalakhtar, it will at some point08:13
bilalakhtarjono: thanks for the info. I think you are busy. should not disturb you more08:13
joaopintogood morning08:13
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Laneyricotz: hi, where are you with the docky sru stuff? I have a bit more time today if you need some help09:13
ricotzLaney, hello, think the best way is to propose the new stable release for sru, so no patched up version, when making the release and backporting bug fixes i really taken care this is a bug-fix-only release, i have packaged it in ppa:ricotz/docky09:17
Laneydo you have a link to the changelog?09:24
ricotzLaney, the changelog is included in the tarball - NEWS file09:24
ricotzLaney, http://wiki.go-docky.com/index.php?title=Changelog09:25
Laneyjdong: Would you, in principle, accept an SRU for this new upstream release: http://wiki.go-docky.com/index.php?title=Changelog ?09:26
bilalakhtarhyperair: pbuilder doesn't cache debs. how do I force it to?09:33
hyperairit does automatically09:33
bilalakhtarhyperair: I have a problem with pbuilder. After running create, I run builod and specify dsc file.09:34
bilalakhtarhyperair: I get the error here :- http://paste.ubuntu.com/427495/09:36
bilalakhtarhyperair: please see it09:37
hyperairsorry no time09:37
slytherinhyperair: By default pbuilder uses only 'main' component. you need to configure it to use universe as well in this case.09:37
bilalakhtarslytherin: oh then fine09:37
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ghostcubeanyone of the nvidia vdpau ppa here?10:55
cemcghostcube: I think I am... cool answer, huh? :)10:59
ghostcubecemc: heh.. yeah a kind of10:59
cemcghostcube: but I'm at work right now and it's on the home desktop, so I can't verify anything right now10:59
cemcwait just a sec10:59
ghostcubecemc: i have a problem with the mplayer package from the ppa :)10:59
ghostcubeand i dont know if tis the mplayer package or the jackd package that are a bit buggy -.- so we can talk later if you want no problem11:00
cemcghostcube: aha. what problem? if I recall correctly I've installed mplayer from that, and it works, although I'm not using it that much11:00
ghostcubeif jackd is on at mplayer startup mplayer segfaults11:00
ghostcubeif mplayer is started and then i activate jackds the output works11:01
cemcghostcube: jackd?11:01
ghostcubeyes the sound deamon11:01
ghostcubei can post a message later that mplayer gives me iam at work too :)11:02
ghostcubeno linux so far here11:02
ghostcubemplayer works fine its just the problem with an runing jackd at startup o.O thats strange11:02
ghostcubeand in karmic all worked fine so its an lucid bug :D11:03
persiaghostcube: Please file a bug: I'd like to see a retrace of that.11:04
persiaAlso, is it possible to reproduce with the non-PPA version?11:05
ghostcubepersia: need to try the non ppa version havent got the time at this day11:05
ghostcubebut will test the medibuntu version11:05
ghostcubeand sure i can file a bug report for this :)11:05
persiaPlease do test the standard version: I'm not able to fix the medibuntu or PPA versions, but I'm concerned if JACK is making something segfault in the repos.11:08
ghostcubepersia: i must say i dont use the official jackd packages -.-11:09
ghostcubei want to figure out who has made the buggy package heh11:10
ghostcubeso anything doesnt like each other in lucid11:10
mok0Just upgraded to lucid... my god11:10
ghostcubepersia: cause it works if you start mplayer and then jackd to use the output i dont think its jackd causing this11:11
mok0so many bugs11:11
hyperairmok0: you noticed that too?11:11
persiaghostcube: Try the regular repo version: that might not have the issue.11:11
mok0hyperair: yes11:11
hyperairmok0: which bugs did you hit?11:12
mok0hyperair:  it's horrible11:12
persiay'all should try upgrading earlier, to fix stuff :)11:12
ghostcubepersia: yah iam going to check it :)11:12
hyperairmok0: i spent two days just fixing all the things that failed to upgrade, since my upgrade went borked halfway11:12
mok0hyperair: I am trying to get my nvidia driver to work11:12
ghostcubehmm no hazl for me with nvidia here, what kind of driver?11:12
hyperairmok0: get intel!11:13
persiaIt's Patch Day!  If anyone has time, please come by #ubuntu-reviews and help knock out patches.11:13
mok0ghostcube: proprietary, it's the only one giving a decent performance on the GPU I have11:13
ghostcubepackaged one or binary version from nvidia page?11:13
mok0ghostcube: however, jockey fails11:13
mok0ghostcube: package11:13
* slytherin ditched 5 years of upgraded Ubuntu for fresh install of Lucid11:14
mok0ghostcube: but I might go the manual way11:14
ghostcubehmmm my nvidia-current worked fine in the update, i did it in terminal by do-release-upgrade11:14
ghostcubethe only thing hit me was to move .kde but normal :D11:14
mok0We need to stop this semi-annual release cycle bullshit11:15
mok0... and release when it's ready11:15
ghostcubeyeah like debian does -.-11:15
mok0ghostcube: yes11:15
persiamok0: Takes too long.  We need to do better to try to make it ready in 6 months (maybe this means less new stuff, etc.)11:15
mok0persia: nobody releases towards a fixed date11:16
persiaWe do.11:16
mok0persia: not even Apple11:16
mok0persia: that's why Ubuntu releases are so extremely buggy11:16
mok0persia: and it's getting worse11:16
mok0persia: karmic was awful11:17
persiaI think the issue is a lack of coordination, rather than the schedule.11:17
persiaI think we'd be equally buggy for any arbitrary date.11:17
mok0persia: I disagree11:18
persiaI also think we'd slow down and have a hard time releasing if we didn't release buggy, given the significant lack of attention given to stuff like RCbugs as release nears.11:18
persiamok0: Fair :)  I doubt I'll convince you, nor you me :)11:18
mok0persia: heh11:18
mok0Sorry bitching. When my system runs in a week or so, I will be in a better mood11:19
persiaUnderstood.  That's part of why I always upgrade pre-beta: it gives me a chance to at least complain about the bugs pre-release, so that maybe some of them can be fixed.11:19
mok0persia: This is my production system11:20
mok0persia: I can't afford to have it not working for days and days11:20
persiaI understand.  I find the FFE process lighter-weight than the SRU process, so since I expect upgrade pain, I time my upgrades appropriately.  My choice isn't right for everyone.11:21
mok0The SRU process is a disaster11:21
mok0That's the kindest thing I can say about it :-)11:22
cemcghostcube: sorry for not replying... I have karmic for now, and not using jackd (i think ;) )11:23
* hyperair thinks karmic was a golden release for me11:24
hyperairimo dapper, intrepid, and karmic were the best ubuntus11:25
hyperairlucid.. well i don't know.11:25
mok0hyperair: lucid has been hyped too much.11:25
hyperairmok0: well yeah, i think the indicators were not implemented properly11:26
hyperairand the 10sec time wasn't achieved for me. still 120sec11:26
mok0hyperair: indicators?11:26
hyperairmok0: application indicators11:26
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hyperairfeatures cut off, not replaced with equivalents11:26
hyperairand despite lucid being an lts, someone's going around claiming that he's conducting tests.11:27
ograhyperair, i have 7seconds on one system and 12 on another11:27
hyperairogra: good for you11:27
hyperairogra: i suppose i have cryptsetup+lvm to blam11:27
ograah, likely11:27
* ogra uses neither11:27
hyperairthat said, from boot => login is awesome11:27
persiahyperair: Mostly cryptsetup: LVM should still boot fast.11:28
mok0Well I need to reboot so I can come back and tell you my results. How do you measure?11:28
hyperairfrom login screen => usable is terrible.11:28
hyperairboot => login screen takes ~ 10 sec, if not less11:28
ograyeah, i agree with persia11:28
hyperairafter that takes the remaining 2 minutes =.=11:28
kklimondamok0: install bootchart and do two restarts with auto login enabled11:28
mok0hyperair: boot, it that from grub fires up the boot sequenc?11:28
persiahyperair: Consider dropping stuff fom your session :)11:28
hyperairpersia: i did >_>11:28
mok0kklimonda: ah ok11:28
hyperairpersia: the only custom things i have in my session.. are probably conky and rainlendar11:29
hyperairand gnome-do and docky11:29
hyperairthat's about it11:29
hyperairthe panel might be a culprit11:29
hyperairi've got quite a few applets there11:29
ograhyperair, ever tested with a newly created account ?11:30
ograjust to have comparison data11:30
hyperairogra: yeah, it's pretty fast. which is weird.11:31
ghostcubecemc: np :)11:31
hyperairactually i take that back about 10secs11:31
ogramight be something in your gconf settings ...11:31
hyperairafter 25 secs, ureadahead is still running.11:31
ograsomething that wasnt carried over properly11:31
ghostcubelucid is the second gutsy11:31
ghostcubea bit of everything11:32
hyperairogra: maybe. my gconf dates back to dapper.11:32
hyperairi mean my entire home directory11:32
ograwell, mine dates back to warty but i rarely change defaults11:33
* hyperair did a lot of customization11:35
hyperairso much that i don't know if i'd be able to reproduce all of them given a pristine system11:35
hyperairspeaking of which, my /home is due for a backup11:35
Breaking_PittHello I have a problem with my package(once again)11:43
Breaking_PittI have been working on it but I'm getting this error11:43
Breaking_Pitt"update-python-modules: error: /usr/share/python-support/bicho.public is not a directory" in the post-installation script11:44
Breaking_Pittsome advice please?11:44
mok0My boot time is around 100s11:50
mok0What do I need to do to get back my GLX visual?11:51
mok0Yikes! What happened to xorg.conf?11:57
* slytherin wonders what's wrong with launchpad, the 'Post Comment' button keeps disappearing.12:00
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persiamok0: It was deemed obsolete for most users.12:01
Breaking_Pitthey  I need som helpl, I can't continue some advice¿?12:16
persiaBreaking_Pitt: So, does dpkg -c show that directory in your .deb?  Why do you think it ought exist?  What call do you have in postinst that expects it to be there?12:17
Breaking_Pittok persia let me see thanks for your advice12:18
Breaking_Pittpersia, this is what dpkg -c shows -rw-r--r-- root/root       549 2010-05-04 10:50 ./usr/share/python-support/bicho.public12:20
Breaking_Pittlet me see my postinst12:20
persiaOK.  That's not a directory :)12:20
Breaking_Pitti know12:21
Breaking_Pittbut http://pastebin.com/z5xSz9Qb here is my postinst12:21
Breaking_Pittthis was create by the builddeb12:21
persiaI have no idea what update-python-modules does, but I expect that it expects a directory.  What is "builddeb"?12:22
Breaking_PittI've created this package using cdbs and devhelper12:22
* POX suspects using old python-support with package generated for new one12:25
Breaking_Pittsorry POX?12:25
POXwhich version of python-support do you have?12:26
Breaking_Pittdo you think that the error is in the control file?12:26
Breaking_Pittlet me see12:26
Breaking_Pittseems to be none12:27
mok0persia: Is xorg.conf read if present?12:27
persiamok0: I haven't tried since February, but it was then.12:27
mok0persia: I see, thanks12:28
POXBreaking_Pitt: apt-cache policy python-support | pastebinit -i -12:31
Breaking_Pittsorry what does pastebinit -i?12:32
POXsends it to one of http://www.google.com/search?q=pastebin12:32
kmdmBit OT but should do-release-upgrade on a Hardy server be offering the Lucid upgrade? Because it's not unless I pass it the -d option...12:40
sorenkmdm: Yes, it is.12:44
kmdmsoren: Hrm, not for me... apt is pointing at de.archive..., Prompt=lts, do-release-upgrade says "No new release found" and with -d it downloads the upgrade tool12:46
sorenkmdm: right. It's *supposed* to, but doesn't.12:46
ogrause --proposed12:47
kmdmaha, ta :) now back to the more interesting problem of trying to upgrade a 1and1 colo server where the server doesn't return after reboot and no serial console ;)12:49
Breaking_PittPOX you are rigth12:53
Breaking_Pittit was a problem with python-support12:53
james_wcan a MOTU please try changing the status of https://code.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-branches/ubuntu/maverick/ssss/maverick/+edit and then changing it back please?12:54
POXBreaking_Pitt: I bet you didn't read dpkg warnings (python-support is setting correct minimum versions in Depends)12:55
Breaking_PittI've read the warning but I have found the main mistake12:57
Breaking_PittI've created the package in a ubuntu12:57
Breaking_Pittand the testing was done in a debbian12:57
sorenjames_w: Is it ok if it's a core-dev?12:58
Breaking_Pittmaybe this was some part of the problem12:58
james_wsoren: yup12:58
sorenjames_w: Oh. Now I own it.12:58
james_wwoops :-)12:59
james_wbut it worked, that's odd13:00
sorenjames_w: The web UI still defaults to passing over the ownership to me.13:01
james_wplease report that as a bug13:01
sorenjames_w: bug 57508613:04
ubottuLaunchpad bug 575086 in launchpad "Changing a branch's settings defaults to changing owner as well" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/57508613:04
sorenSure thing.13:04
sorenjames_w: It's probably because I'm not a member of ubuntu-branches, so I can't specify that team as the owner. Or something.13:05
james_wyeah, that's what I just commented13:05
sorenAh, yes, so you did.13:06
sorenIt's Tuesday!13:06
soren...so today is today, rather than tomorrow, which isn't for another day. Whoo!13:07
james_wsoren: do you have the pencil icon that would allow you to edit the status of https://code.launchpad.net/~lfaraone/ubuntu/lucid/accerciser/libgail-dep/+merge/23773 ?13:10
sorenjames_w: I don't think I do, no.13:15
sorenjames_w: Where is it supposed to be?13:16
sorenOh, where the status is.13:16
sorenNo, I don't.,13:16
james_wthanks for checking, last one, I assume you do on https://code.launchpad.net/~bluetooth/ubuntu/maverick/obexd/main/+merge/24584 ?13:16
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james_wsoren: ^13:17
sorenjames_w: Yes, I do.13:17
sorenjames_w: Sure.13:17
james_wnow I understand13:17
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nigelbabuYokoZar: the wine translations are all accepted?14:32
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nigelbabuWe're having patch day today (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PatchDay), anyone interested in helping out are welcome to join #ubuntu-reviews15:07
jetienne_q. i would like to install lighttpd, but not start it. currently this is currently conflicting with apache215:37
dyfetjetienne_ I think this is broadly an upstart question...how to install a service (managed by upstart) and not to have it automatically start at boot?  it's also something I had wanted to know too :)15:39
dyfetjetienne_: you can play with the runlevels in the /etc/init/xxxx.conf file directly, but that seems ugly to me15:41
dyfetjetienne__: you can play with the runlevels in the /etc/init/xxxx.conf file directly, but that seems ugly to me15:43
jetienne__dyfet: yep and this wont help it not to start. aka it will try to start, and then i will modify it15:44
dyfetjetienne__: that's why I was hoping someone would suggest a better way to accomplish this15:45
jetienne__dyfet: there are some hidden env variables, i bet one is cool in my case15:45
YokoZarnigelbabu: from the bug report, yes (except the last one posted like yesterday, [et] I think)15:46
dyfetjetienne__: if they are package specific env vars, you then have to know the package...there should be a more generic use-case/means to do this with upstart itself15:46
nigelbabuYokoZar: are we giving those back to upstream?15:46
YokoZarnigelbabu: no, they don't apply upstream15:46
jetienne__dyfet: ok i will look thanks15:46
nigelbabuYokoZar: not even debian?15:47
YokoZarnigelbabu: the .desktop files they translate aren't in Debian or upstream15:47
nigelbabuYokoZar: is it worthwhile to forward to debian?15:47
YokoZarnigelbabu: Debian might start using my packages though (in which case they would get the translations anyway)15:48
nigelbabuYokoZar: oh cool :)15:48
dyfetjetienne__: when I say there "should be", I mean if there isn't, I would suggest it as a feature request :)15:54
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Laneyhow can I tell sbuild to use different mirrors for debian and ubuntu chroots?16:40
siretartLaney: configure different mirrors in the chroots?16:41
Laneysiretart: oh, like that? Thought it might be external.16:42
siretartLaney: sbuild TTBOMK doesn't touch apt's configuration files16:42
* Laney tries16:43
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om26erhow to make a deb from python source?17:51
astraljavaom26er: There's a good guide here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PackagingGuide/Python17:53
om26erastraljava, thanks alot its build now :)17:57
astraljavanp :)18:02
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ghostcube_cemc: btw for the vdpau repo the mplayer is not build for lucid :)18:50
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