=== nobawk|away is now known as nobawk [01:16] when's UDS? [01:17] LaserJock: next week [01:18] mathiaz: ah, thanks [01:19] LaserJock: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDS-M [01:31] LaserJock: !! [01:31] imbrandon: got a sec for query? [01:31] crimsun: sure [01:32] imbrandon: dude!!! [01:32] you're alive! ;-) [01:32] heh yea, been back in the swing for a bit now [01:32] :) [01:33] hi LaserJock [01:33] hmm [01:33] where's bddebian, that'd be about right [01:34] getting all the old people in one place? [01:35] * LaserJock pops his teeth out to scare the little kids [01:36] lol [01:36] i havent seen bddebian in quite a while [01:37] LaserJock: tried lucid yet ? [01:37] imbrandon: yeah, been running it since Alpha 2 or so [01:37] nice [01:38] seen ya pop by my blog a while back, i was like, man where is he [01:38] :) [01:39] heck, I even threw some code in to UNE [01:39] sweet [01:40] ive resigned myself to become a DD this summer, even if it kills me [01:40] i've put it off far too long [01:40] I've been busy putting my PhD to use [01:40] I get to play rocket scientist these days [01:40] get a nice gig somewhere? last i talked to you , you were still in school [01:41] yeah, I'm in Boston now, of all places [01:41] ahh nice, lol, i interview with a company in vegas last week, not sure i wanna move back to NV though [01:42] I'm a contractor with the Air Force [01:42] oh sweet [01:42] in the "space" part [01:42] so it's kinda weird [01:42] I went from nanotechnology to space [01:42] yea but space is fun ( imho ) [01:43] I had 2 job offers, on in KS and one in Boston [01:43] if i had a chance to do it all over i would probably do something involving commercial space [01:43] I would like to get out Kansas way or mid west or something [01:43] KS really ? wth is out here in KS [01:43] lol [01:43] well, you do have a couple universities out there [01:43] i like it here, but everything is so spread out [01:44] the one I was looking at was Kansas State, I'd like to be closer to Kansas City though [01:44] lol tell me about it, i got one nephew at Missouri Uni and one at Kansas Uni, talk about rivalry [01:44] yeah, well, here in New England you can't get any elbow room at all [01:44] k state has some campusus here [01:45] it is kinda cool having MIT and Harvard, etc. here [01:45] and ku has all the med scholl campuses here, and then there us umkc ( uni missouri kc branch ) [01:45] school* [01:45] wow [01:46] and like a metric ton of community coll [01:46] yeah [01:46] i think there is something like 15 in the area [01:46] they have community colleges like starbucks here [01:46] yup [01:46] yeah? that's quite a few [01:46] lol [01:47] I live out in the 'burbs [01:48] most of them are affiliated with jccc ( johnson count community college ) somehow or another, johnson county is the Ks part of KC, jackson co being the Mo side [01:48] I think I pass like at least 7 unis that I know of just to get in to downtown Boston [01:48] s/count/sounty [01:48] lol nice [01:49] but I swear they have to compensate for all the "brain power" here [01:49] i lived up in providence for a short time arround ~2001, worked in boston, was fun, but i had to get out, tooooooo cold [01:49] some people are quite bright, some are ... not so much [01:49] lol [01:50] they don't know how to drive, that's for sure [01:50] hahahah yea, i dident bother driving when i was there, t train all the way baby ;) [01:51] yeah, doing a train is a new thing for me [01:51] thats one thing i love about the coasts , useable mass transit [01:51] sucks here [01:51] * persia remembers old Boston statistics: 52 colleges/universities, with ~3% of the population being a freshman each year. [01:51] i absolutely hate to drive [01:52] unless its for a joyride on my motorcycle [01:52] persia: yeah, and that's 3% of a rather big number, IMO [01:52] not so much for you I suppose ;-) [01:52] ~7M or so. [01:53] it's beautiful here, I gotta give them that [01:54] if it weren't for all the people it'd be a pretty darn good place to live ;-) [01:54] yea it seemed really nice, form what i saw of it, i actualy wouldent even call what i did "live" there, was more like an extended stay ( was there just under 3 months ) [01:54] just tooo damn cold lol [01:56] I love the winter here [01:56] it's a bit chilly at times (apparently this winter was real mild) but all the snow is great [01:57] heh i'm a fun in the sun guy, i'd rather it be 98% humid and 104F every day than drop below ~45F ever [01:57] yuck [01:57] yea i need to be in southern CA or NV or AZ [01:57] :) [01:57] gimme -20F over 98% humidity and > 80F any day [01:58] as long as cars still work I'm all good [01:58] :) [01:58] you can always put more on, you can only take so much off :-) [01:59] and computers make great little heaters [01:59] that's my theory anyway [02:04] imbrandon: so what have you been working on with Ubuntu? [02:07] hehe one sec got a semi important /query going , gimme ~2 min [02:10] back [02:11] well not a ton yet, i got "back" late in the cycle, so moslty so far been sponsoring others last minute fixes for lucid [02:11] and catching back up on policys [02:11] touched a few backports and been working today to bring the ubuntuone* stack to debian proper [02:11] working mostly in MOTU or Kubuntu or? [02:12] mostly MOTU and core, not a lot K* yet this time [02:12] well other than general testing [02:12] :) [02:13] i think i have resigned to use the gnome desktop with a few kde and qt apps [02:13] holy cow! [02:13] you've gone to the dark side [02:13] i still have KDE4 Lucid on one of my desktops , but i just cant bring my self to the KDE way with kde4 [02:14] desktopwise anyhow [02:14] hehe [02:14] the "gadgets" get on my nerves, if i could make it feel like 3 or a more traditional desktop i'd be more at home [02:15] but some of the functionality like KIO-slaves are great, cant give those up :) [02:15] yeah [02:15] the plasmoids are kinda annoying [02:15] like I like the functionality of some of them [02:16] but the appearing/disappearing UI controls get on my nerves [02:16] you know if one had the time and manpower ( guess that means $$ ) a new deesktop based on qt/kde libs but made to look/function like gnome 2.X would be awesom [02:16] yea [02:16] the backend for kde is soooooooo much better and easier to work with, but the kde4.x implmentation of it i just cant grok [02:17] mhm, it's weird how that works [02:17] soo i'm kinda like the man in the middle :) [02:18] well, that's not so bad of a place to be necessarily [02:18] :) [02:18] atleaste i can make sure kde apps play nice on other desktops [02:18] and i play arround with kde native on OSX still alot [02:18] thats alot of fun [02:19] does RangerRick still do that? [02:19] I think that was his nick [02:19] i've been meaning to try the same thing on windows ( kde native ) but its really low on my TODO [02:19] yea RangerRick is still the major driving force behind it and the fink port [02:19] but its picked up quite a few others too [02:20] its really in a "maintance" mode now as 99.9% of the needed patches for kde native on osx have ben applied upstream, so its just a mater of checkout;./configure;make;make install [02:21] & wait a few hours [02:21] for _most_ of the stuff [02:21] lol yea [02:22] on my mac mini it take about 3 hours for the base system to compile, but the mini is a intel core solo 1.83ghz with 1gb ram [02:22] so its not a beast :) [02:22] gosh, I remember doing that in Gentoo [02:22] seemed like every time I got done they'd push a new KDE version [02:22] hahaha emerge world [02:22] *wait 3 days* [02:23] I just started grad school [02:23] ohhh a login screen [02:23] and my advisor would come in and ask about something [02:23] and I'd need some package so I'd have to wait for my emerge to finish [02:23] that's actually the primary reason I ended up with Ubuntu [02:24] hehe i rember you telling me that way back when [02:24] LaserJock: I used to have a script to rebuilt kdelibs/base from cvs each night [02:24] ouch [02:24] and it'd get done each night? [02:24] :-) [02:24] yeah [02:24] just base and libs isnt toooooooo much [02:24] this was maybe 9 years ago :) [02:25] only takes about ~30-40 min now iirc on a decent build box [02:25] I was too impatient [02:25] I don't think I every installed from a stage1 tarball [02:25] i'd hate to work on someonthing like oo.o upstream [02:26] that has got to be a nightmare [02:26] oh man [02:26] for Lucid they were rebuilding for the branding changes [02:26] one stupid graphic and they had to rebuild the whole thing :( [02:26] wow, broken design [02:26] well, who knew they'd need to change it :p [02:27] there's a whole day gone [02:27] oracle really could use a better logo though, yuck [02:27] yea, honestly i think we should quarenten oo.o to its own buildd [02:27] lol [02:27] i ahvent looked at it [02:28] still havent wrapped my head arround them buying sun [02:28] i was wondering the other day what that ment for stuff like opensolaris and ian murdoch and stuff [02:29] seems like it's not the end of the world, but it's not just same old thing either [02:29] yea [02:30] I'd guess it'll take 'em a while to shake things out [02:30] ohhh syncing works now ... woot [02:30] I know somebody here who works for Sun here in Boston, they're working on a 2nd career just in case [02:30] ajmitch: they must have fixed the backend, syncing is actualy working on my sqeeze box [02:30] LaserJock: i would imagine [02:31] imbrandon: I'd hope so, it's really not that different from lucid :) [02:31] it's things like that that make me think perhaps being a poor chemist isn't so bad after all [02:31] heheh yea but it was broke for hours today [02:31] LaserJock: hehehe [02:32] I saw Canonical was hiring a bug person for here in Lexington [02:32] I dive by there on my way to work every day [02:32] tempted? [02:32] oh, sorta [02:32] LaserJock: so do you get to work with any of the current space stuff ? a guy in my Warcraft guild ( shhhhhhh ) works for NASA in the control center room thingie, kinda cool [02:32] hmm [02:33] well, I can't tell you exactly what I work on of course (sucks) but it's space, DoD, etc. [02:33] heheh understood [02:34] yea he can never say exactly either, but he sends pics once in a while of the stuff he can [02:34] lemme see if i can dig one up ... [02:34] I work on space vehicles though, or rather the basic chemistry aspect [02:34] no engineering or anything [02:35] cool [02:35] Battlespace vehicles, what a nerdy name [02:35] * Yagisan reads space based weapons delivery platforms instead of space vehicles [02:36] Yagisan: that's the part he can't tell you about :) [02:36] well, it ain't NASA [02:36] ;-) [02:37] but it's nifty, space is quite different for us chemists [02:37] I knew it - he's working on what will eventually become skynet [02:37] usually we use a space-like environment (vacuum) to simulate stuff on earth [02:38] but now we have a similar environment, but the chemistry is completely different [02:38] LaserJock: ahh i found the last one, i have some more somwhere http://i42.tinypic.com/oizreq.jpg [02:38] hah [02:39] ever nerdy kids dream [02:39] *every [02:39] exactly [02:39] we give him hell on vent all the time about going to mars and other stupid stuff [02:39] man, I used to go through the pre-launch flight procedures in my living room in a tipped over recliner [02:40] a loooong time ago [02:40] he calls the place he works "MCC" no idea what it means though [02:40] mission control center [02:40] lol, that would be it , hahaha [02:40] nothing important or anything [02:40] but the question to ask - does he run ubuntu at work? [02:41] lol no, i was only one of two in my guild that ran linux of any kind [02:41] those pics look similar to debian [02:41] dude, the physicists across the hall do [02:41] actualy at work they might run some linux, i'll have to ask [02:41] I was in their lab getting a tour and I saw it up on a giant TV screen [02:41] neer occured to me to ask actualy , lol [02:41] LaserJock: that's good :) [02:41] never* [02:41] I was like "hmm, that brown looks a little familiar" [02:42] lol [02:42] now what am I going to do? [02:42] purple everywhere, so confusing ;-) [02:42] LOL [02:42] * imbrandon uses a "blue" theme === nobawk is now known as nobawk|away [02:43] * Yagisan uses a theme known as maximised xterms [02:44] isn't that the point of a gui - to run many more xterms ? [02:44] lol, yea i dunno why i bother, 99% of the time i live in a maximied term with tons of screen sessions [02:44] * ajmitch doesn't usually maximise stuff, except for maybe on the laptop [02:45] honestly i think i'd be ok if chrome worked without X via framebuffer or someting and the rest justa term [02:45] I just have a netbook these days [02:45] a couple of 22" LCDs at work, having a terminal maximised would be overkill [02:45] I've got Kubuntu on the eeepc, which is nice, Xubuntu on this box, but they only ever seem to run xterm, xchat, and vlc/mplayer [02:45] so I don't see much theming [02:45] true [02:46] LaserJock, which one ? I've been using the eeepc 1000h as my main system for about a year now [02:46] I have an Acer Aspire One [02:46] picked it up around Thanksgiving [02:46] although I found the "netbook" spins to be unusable for myself [02:46] the main box i've been using the last couple months is an _old_ 1.5ghz celeron with a gig of ram and an IDE 5400 rpm hdd that wont boot off of USB [02:46] mine was a retrenchment gift to myself [02:46] uh, last November (to be more international) [02:46] makes for a good beater laptop though [02:46] I love UNE [02:47] it works really well with how I use a computer [02:47] 1 desktop, 1 app/window at a time [02:47] I've been simplifying my computing experience :-) [02:47] ah - yeah - I have multiple up and running [02:47] but I'm not a professional [02:47] * ajmitch hasn't been simplifying very well [02:47] yea i have had a few of the 10.1 in dell mini's and love em, just never seem to keep em long renenough [02:48] * Yagisan sobs no one wants to hire me [02:48] but they are tiny, but just big enough to type comfy on [02:48] my wife's laptop died suddenly (started smoking), I gave her mine and went to Walmart and got the cheapest thing they had [02:48] :) [02:48] turns out I really like the netboook thing [02:49] I wish I had a server though [02:49] the battery life is nice - wish the gma950 had more grunt [02:49] yeah [02:49] LaserJock: need access to one ? i got a linode i can give ya an account on if ya need [02:50] its not beefy but should be ok for just about anything ya need [02:50] what sort of server LaserJock ? [02:50] lol [02:50] well, the two things that I don't get from a netbook are 24x7 connectivity (IRC for instance) and the ability to build packages reasonably [02:50] * Yagisan has a karmic box here that exists to run xchat, dhcp, bind, samba and lots and lots of kvm sessions [02:51] ;) [02:51] I don't know that I'm in desperate need at this point, but it's the one thing I miss having only 2 laptops [02:52] * ajmitch builds packages on the laptop, but irssi runs on a linode [02:52] none of my desktop machines made the move to Boston [02:52] yea i use my linode for basic webserver for things i dont host on google app engine , and irssi [02:52] you can pick up a cheap multicore white-box pc - add a ups, configure mdadm for raid or lvm mirroring, and suddenly, mini-server [02:52] dunno if it would be that good to build packages though [02:52] * Yagisan is doing the lvm setup himself [02:53] got a awesome phenom II x3 chip - 4th core unlocked stable :D [02:53] very happy about that [02:53] eww amd, i mean gl with that ;) [02:53] lol j/.k [02:54] it was best price/performance [02:54] imbrandon: lol I had to deal with an AMD box the other day not booting Linux to initramfs. [02:54] nice looking panics [02:54] :) [02:54] * Yagisan isn't a fanboy - i want the best I can get for my limited $$$ [02:54] remember cyrix ? [02:54] yup [02:54] imbrandon: funniest was the stack trace went off the screen [02:54] I still have my 6x86 cyrix chip here [02:54] that was my first server [02:54] imbrandon: and AMD decides that VESA vga=xxx modes are "deprecated" for their IGP's :) [02:54] i rember the almost x86 chips that overheated and gave me tons of headaches [02:54] glorified 486 that was [02:56] Yagisan: i agree as far as proformace for $$ but i factor in one more thing, headache, and intel almost always seems to win [02:56] imbrandon: yes and it's performance for the $$, never performance per $$ [02:56] gett [02:56] i ran amd chips for years and cyrix before that even though they had so many incompatibilties , but in the end its worth having the intel for the leaste amount of headaches [02:57] imho [02:57] they're not done with being incompatible yet [02:57] i mean hell the i3 dual cores are only like $56 bux right now or something ;) [02:58] imbrandon: yes but the mobo costs a lot [02:58] I can't say I've had compatibility issues in the last 15 years I've been building boxes [02:58] imbrandon: I've got a friend who assembles entire AMD systems, ready to boot, sub-$300 [02:58] imbrandon: and that's something that's impossible to do with Intel hardware [02:58] wow , i woudlent even consider that [02:58] so I'll give AMD that. [02:58] but personally I'd rather get up to the $500 mark and build a decent Intel box [02:58] exactly [02:58] but that's not to say some manufacturers didn't over-promise on their hardware (cyrix - I'm looking at you) [02:59] lol [02:59] Yagisan: I just had my latest set of AMD headaches a month ago. CLFLUSH gives invalid opcode on entirely valid incantations... [02:59] Yagisan: which yields FreeBSD Xen guests panicking on boot whenever they'd rotate to AMD hardware [02:59] jdong, which cpu ? [02:59] Yagisan: Opteron quad 2.4GHz [02:59] 2xxx series? [02:59] intel has a sweet microcode update system that amd lacks [03:00] I got burned with a first gen amd64 box (like those opertrons you mention) [03:00] works fine with 32bit virtual guests, but can't do 64bit [03:00] yea all in all AMD's arent terrible, and i ran quite a few of them over the years, i just feel like the old man that buys the caddy because the caddy works and the man will come fix it if it dosent type mentality anymore [03:01] * ajmitch has an amd chip at home [03:01] no they've got okay chips, but Intel never ceases to amaze me with their advances. [03:01] they do have their place, but with intel i dont have to worry if when i boot/compile something if its the cpu's fault or the code [03:01] etc [03:01] lol a joke from a performance engineering course last term [03:01] they switched the cluster to Nehalem cores [03:02] I have 3 intel systems here, and 3 amd systems - the microcode updates on the intels are the main advantage i see [03:02] and their slow vs fast code examples ended up running at the same speeds [03:02] it was a parallel workload cache line sharing contention "example" [03:02] all intel are 32bit chips ... [03:02] but silly Nehalem was smart enough to do the necessary reordering in hardware. [03:02] lol [03:02] model name : Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Duo CPU E7400 @ 2.80GHz [03:03] that one *without* virtualisation stuff, afaik [03:03] so annoying [03:03] :/ [03:03] i cant wait to get my grubby fingers on a dual quad i7 setup , hopefully by the end of the summer, packed into a 27inch imac [03:03] Yagisan: I see some *major* performance differences between Intel and AMD hardware when running "real world" (read: poorly written) code [03:03] laptop is T9600, virtualbox is useful here :) [03:03] Yagisan: primarily code that's poorly written because of crappy memory access patterns, Intel blows right through them [03:04] jdong, how old is this code ? like Win NT that won't even start on a pentium 4 or later bad ? [03:04] Yagisan: not old code, new code but just poorly written real world code. [03:04] Yagisan: e.g. try running comething complex in python or multicore computational code written by a code monkey. [03:05] Yagisan: stuff that's not ffmpeg or fftw which have been optimized by real performance engineers (tm) to be processor-friendly [03:05] * Yagisan puts away the x264 example he had ... [03:05] Yagisan: for code like that, you'll find that Intels tend to deal with the code and run it a lot faster than AMD cores. [03:06] I find the two companies plat leapfrog - at any one time one of them is the best - then we get a new chip [03:06] s/plat/play [03:06] not really, marketring makes it seem that way, but intel is RARELY ever on the bottom half [03:06] of course - when I'm spending my money - I'm wanting the best overall performance I can [03:07] * Yagisan did at one stage flog these systems off to customers - I did see this for myself [03:07] the last time i rember intel being on the bottom half of the leapfrog was the frist 4 to 6 months the x86_64 first gen chips hit the market === nobawk|away is now known as nobawk [03:07] Yagisan: except AMD isn't leapfrogging on the CPU front anymore, they're just putting better GPU's on die and offering it at a cheaper price. [03:08] Yagisan: ever since Intel came out with the Core 2 architecture AMD has lost the performance, performance-per-dollar and performance-per-watt game [03:08] they've managed to keep alive with "minimal dollar to reach some performance level" [03:09] they are competitive in overall system performance [03:09] besides - whoever burns the smallest hole in my wallet for what I want to do is clearly the leader for me [03:09] so, atom then ? :) [03:10] lifeless: hahahaha minimal dollar to put something that plausibly runs x86 on a die. [03:10] well - that is my day to day pc actually [03:10] Yagisan: heh thats the same thing ppl say about apple being "expensive" because they dontr have a $300 machine, but if you take their $1100 laptop and go part for part with dell its virtually the same price ;) [03:11] but dell is expensive ... [03:11] imbrandon: yeah the counterargument you usually get is there's no motivation for the Dell owner to go part for part. [03:11] but you dont hear that mostly, you hear apple is ;) [03:11] imbrandon: e.g. I'm sure Grandma is fine with an Atom once we get rid of OpenOffice and Firefox ;-) [03:11] * Yagisan wanted a mac when they used powerpc chips - because I wanted a big-endian dev box [03:12] jdong: lol i konw, but it irks me when ppl use hat arguement, its like if you dont like apple for whatever reason cool, but umm prices is moot [03:12] hey - OO.o and firefox work well on my atom - perhaps would work better with atom tuning (small chace etc) [03:12] imbrandon: oh likewise. Not to mention it doens't factor in the cost of the attention to detail with the hardware. [03:12] gah - I can't type today [03:12] imbrandon: I mean I'm sure I can make an argument of why my $30,000 car is superior to the BMW 7-series too based on spec sheet :) [03:13] heh [03:13] ok i got to get some food in me, back in ~10-15 min [03:14] being married has caused me to understand what is truly important in a pc now - and it's not cpu speed [03:15] it's how noisy it is - because if it sounds like all I need to do is strap on some wings for it to take off - the wife will turn it off [03:21] * Yagisan wanders off to watch the bourne identity [03:25] Hmm, looking at plymouth, lucid, if I simply do "apt-get source && dch -i && debuild -S && debdiff" the diff comes out as huge. How can I work around this? [03:28] http://pastebin.com/vaUyFkcX the diff is 10883 lines! my only change was the changelog! [03:38] arand: it diffs against the orig, sooo there must be changes without patches in plymouth [03:38] is my guess [03:39] arand: yup, look at plymouth-0.8.2/debian/patches/debian-changes [03:39] imbrandon: My aim is to get a neat debdiff.. is there some special fu that would allow me to do this? [03:39] filterdiff [03:40] filter the thing you dont want [03:57] imbrandon: Thanks! Yet one of those things I had no idea existed :) === Lutin is now known as Guest40878 === rgreening__ is now known as rgreening [06:22] hi, i'm a little confused. I specify default-jre as a dependency in my deb, but when i attempt to install it on a java-less machine it says it can't because default-jre is a dependency and not installed. I then have to run apt-get -f to make it install default-jre. Why isn't the package manager installing default-jre itself? [06:24] carneades: How did you try to install your package? [06:24] carneades: Because dpkg only enforces the dependencies, there's a lot of the package management that it doesn't do - such as how to get other packages. apt knows all that extra stuff. [06:25] i used dpkg -i [06:25] Ideally you should use gdebi when installing single package. It will fetch and install necessary dependencies. [06:25] oh i see [06:25] i'll give that a whirl [06:25] while i'm at it, i'm confused as to whether i should specify default-jre or java5-runtime, or openjdk* as the dependency [06:26] in 9.10 this is more of an issue because there is sun java and openjdk, in 10.04 things are simpler in terms of openjdk being the only big option, but way more complicated in terms of package layout [06:27] carneades: default-jre is just a meta package that points to default runtime for that architecture (OpenJDK for all arch since karmic). java5-runtime is a virtual packages. Almost all JREs provide it (openjdk, gij, sun etc). [06:28] so i should specify java5-runtime if i don't care which they're using? [06:29] carneades: An OR dependency 'default-jre | java5-runtime' is more appropriate. [06:29] oh interesting, why is that? [06:30] because i may have java6 installed ;) [06:30] and that would be my default, rather than pulling in 5 unnneededly [06:30] ohh i see [06:30] carneades: That means 'we prefer default jre as dependency or any other package that provides java5-runtime'. [06:31] okay thank you all for your help [06:31] So user will be able to use the package with Sun JRE. Otherwise your package woould have forced the install of default-jre. [06:32] right that's exactly what i want, not to pull in a redundant jre for no reason [06:33] but now in 10.04 there's no way sun can even get in the package system right? it's not in the ubuntu repositories and sun doesn't provide a debian package either. [06:33] oh wait actually it's in a partner repository i think [06:34] you answered yourself. :-) [06:34] *the* partner repo, actually [06:40] fantastic i implemented your suggestions and it worked great [06:51] hyperair: Thanks for the advocate. [06:51] bilalakhtar: np =) [06:52] hyperair: now searching for the second person [06:53]